Why The Night Lords Are the Most Ethical & Humane Legion | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@majorkill]

Who knows, maybe it was the crisp audio from Raycon that allowed me to achieve enough enlightenment and clarity to make this video Get yours for 15% off here : buyraycon.com/majorkill Why not pick up a Lord of the Night while you are at it : www.majorminis.com.au/products/lord-of-the-night

[@alexandrebelinge8996]

Feels like we haven't seen you in a while !

[@Alex-pj8nz]

Well Cruze probably told his father and brothers about why he does this and that, most of his sons however didn’t bothered and just claim they do it for fun so basically that’s why he decided to destroy his founding planet and start all over again.

[@Ghostwolf82]

Video Suggestion: “Which Legions would have been better off without their Primarchs?” Edit: just to clarify, by “without the Primach” I mean that their Primarch was never found, and so had no chance to mould the legion in their image more than they already were.

[@seanreusing4409]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rau6pnV6oauMqa8 Dante explained by an Australian bro. Go nuts on our golden badass who are only desires to f'n die

[@bitmoa4130]

Just copped some spicy red earbuds thanks Major

[@NP3GA]

Honestly I find it interesting that most Night Lords now a days are evil and cowardly, they are the ones that looked out only for themselves and will immediately backed off the moment things got even a little challenging, so it makes sense that they survived, alike their more honourable brothers that were constantly in thick of things

[@ULTIMATZEKROM]

As Starscream once said, “sometimes, cowards do survive.”

[@chillskeleton6529]

it usually takes a guy with brass balls to unite them. Like the one guy who is the most justifiably pissed off is the leader

[@chillskeleton6529]

it also seems that every one of their special characters die with vindicated goals

[@spacecowboy3719]

My first time reading a warhammer 40k book it was cadia stands and the only unnamed night lord chased a rattling out of a building window

[@prophet4722]

Nightlord 1 : We Fight! Nightlord 2 : We Run! Nightlord Warlord : We Fight to Run Away

[@BastoGhost]

Night Lords : - Did you just tortured the entire planet ?! - No sir, just the higher ups, the population is safe and we took control over there. Emperor Childrens : - Did you just tortured the entire planet ?! - Yes - I guess you took control of it right ? - Oh shit so that's why we went there in the first place.

[@milosstojakovic7586]

*torture PS: NL get the job done just as described - quick, efficient, direct.

[@NP3GA]

I'm surprised he was able to understand what he was supposed to do

[@koolunit]

Pass the torture bong, brother!

[@braedonkerska1845]

Haha

[@bandigustin1038]

World Devourers: -Where is the world's population? -Ñam ñam, what population?

[@zacharyweaver276]

I think the Nightlords were good during the Great Crusade helping take worlds without murdering millions except after the heresy they're basically criminals let off the leash able to go around and violate and murder however they want. There's a reason they operate a lot like the Dark Eldar taking on battles where they have a huge advantage instead of fighting actual armies and such.

[@stephenwiseman1712]

I mean they were criminals of the leash during the heresy, the only real difference between the great crusade and heresy aftermath was that they wore the Aquila

[@zacharyweaver276]

@@stephenwiseman1712 they were controlled by Kurze/the imperium they had assignments and missions and stuff not just running around randomly fucking with worlds

[@insidious7329]

They really weren't ever remotely close to "good". They didn't do these things out of a desire to reduce bloodshed. They didn't even do this because they thought it worked (cept maybe Konrad) they tortured and maimed this because they're terrible people and they reveled in others people misery, no different from the dark eldar. This is as wrong and as silly as saying that I he dark eldar aren't evil because they think they're forced to torture people to extend their own shitty lives so they can just get off on torturing more people. They did it solely because they're no different from the Drukhari. The fact that it simply makes initial compliance easier was a fortune side effect, but because they only know how to tear other's others down and torture just is not a sustainable form of enforcement even their own home world rebelled when they got the chance. This was just believe because Konrad was a mass murdering pessimistic asshole and didn't like it when people told him that he didn't have to be one, so he came up with some mental gymnastics to poorly justify his actions. And it never did

[@insidious7329]

​@@zacharyweaver276 That was more so because they didn't have an excuse to be terrible people, not because they had any real desire to not be.

[@zacharyweaver276]

@@insidious7329 I mean the excuse to not be terrible is being a decent human being nothing was stopping them rejoining the imperium as they weren't addicted to chaos kool-aid like other traitor legions

[@thewerdna]

The funny thing is, the Emperor basically said to Malcador during their wargaming of the heresy not to worry about scenarios where Konrad stays a traitor, as all the Emperor needed to just talk to him to get him to rejoin them. So it was actually Sanguineous who caused him to remain a traitor by jettesoning him into deep space.

[@RogueVindicare]

True, but you have to remember that Konrad thought this was all scripted anyway and that him being shot out into space was always supposed to happen and that Sanguineous was lying to him about possible redemption. It's a shame the Emperor couldn't talk to him one more time, Konrad even had a hallucination of the Emperor telling him it wasn't his fault which is even more depressing because it implies that all Konrad wanted was to be talked to and forgiven by his father.

[@thewerdna]

@Rogue Vindicare Assassin which is the tragic part: Sanguineous wasn't lying about the possibility of redemption: he actively chose to deny Konrad that chance. He knew the Emperor would likely forgive Konrad, but he decided "nah, you don't deserve forgiveness." Basically Konrad was ultimately wrong about his future being set in stone: he always tried to make his visions happen as he could justify his actions by having no free will. Sanguineous was the one who knew the future was not set in stone and the visions were just a possible future... but in this case he decided to make sure what Konrad saw would happen

[@RogueVindicare]

@@thewerdna Damn, didn't know redemption was actually possible for Konrad. I kind of hate Sanguineous now ngl. Of course Konrad had done terrible things but Sanguineous let his hate cloud his judgment here. The Night Lords as a loyalist legion would've saved many more human lives with a redeemed Konrad controlling them.

[@thewerdna]

@@RogueVindicare i mean this was after Konrad had repeatedly tortured and repeatedly killed Vulcan, so he had done some truly horrible things by then.

[@RogueVindicare]

@@thewerdna I agree that Konrad was irredeemable but you need to think about the bigger picture and how many more lives you could save having another Primarch and Legion on your side. Konrad could be judged properly after the heresy was over. Send him into the Ghoul Stars or something lol

[@rexlumontad5644]

Roboutian Heresy Night Lords are kinder than the Salamanders indeed thanks to Konrad Curze being raised by a loving mother when he landed in Nostramo.

[@PapaWerserian]

i should read that, where can I read it?

[@macshadow1150]

In Dornian Heresy they also became better, not as good as Roboutian Heresy but still

[@Type_3_Screamer]

I prefer roboutian heresy to the dornian as they didn't just do a straight swap and some choices whilst not obvious made sense

[@macshadow1150]

@@Type_3_Screamer Roboutian Heresy is better written, no doubt, but I like very much Ultramarines there, became new human faction that would be also nice in orginal 40k, while Iron Hands are feared by both Imperium and Chaos

[@gamechanger8908]

*Spoilers* Roboutian Heresy Konrad was pretty close to Sanguinius canon level of badass, he fought 3 of the traitor Primarchs so his brothers and sons could escape.

[@fallenwayward]

I really think that that games workshop should separate the Heretic legions from the Traitor legions in game. Night lords and Alpha legion and to a lesser extent Iron Warriors/Red Corsairs really dont feel like Chaos armies lorewise. Give them seperate codexs and model lines. They could even leave their rules in the Chaos codex to represent the warbands that did fall.

[@theemperorprotectsloyalist9307]

This is a cool idea.

[@robertemerson1087]

Yes a million times yes, I hate that the Night lords’ thing on tabletop is “Daemons, and melee charging” not to mention pretty much none of them have unique models so I buy 3rd party night lords conversion kits.

[@nbyrne2914]

In lore there are always elements of those factions that embrace Chaos and I think GW do that to encourage the sale of demons. In the Night Lord Omnibus, some of them despise chaos but the captain is literally possessed; one guy is well into Khorne but another guy can hear fear thanks to Slaanesh and he's just a bit weirded out and trying to ignore it.

[@sev1120]

Hell, have some rules that let some traitor legions bring loyalist units along at an increased cost. Have that be the Alpha Legion's main gimmick, with them able to bring allied units for cheap and have them at a reduced cost. The Night Lords could still diminish enemy morale, but they'd have more of an emphasis on guerilla warfare and rarely fighting fair with their high tier offensive units, whilst they have potent holding units to tie enemies up. Iron Warriors could have a vast emphasis on using vehicles, being able to have low tier vehicles treated as core units in their armies

[@andrewboyer7544]

How do the Iron Warriors fit here? They extensively use daemons, have one of the highest percentages of obliterators, and were responsible for the daemonculaba... The iron warriors are about as chaos as the word bearers.

[@SgtNukem007]

Their characterization in their omnibus made the night lords feel so much better than other legions that get fuck all for lore

[@AximandTheCursed]

"We are not kind masters, but we are saints when compared to the filth that dwells within the Maelstrom." -Talos addressing the mortal crew of the Covenant of Blood before meeting with the Red Corsairs.

[@gammage37]

I just finished reading the night lords series by Aaron Dembski-Bowden it was so good and Talos and his brothers were deep and interesting characters. Even Oozas who was corrupted by Khorne was able to regain control of himself in the end to try to prove to his brothers that he wasn’t a blood thirsty monster that they thought he was.

[@isaacsiojo870]

Uzas*

[@gammage37]

@@isaacsiojo870 thanks I listened to the audio book so I never actually saw how it was spelled

[@NicholasW943]

It was really sad when Uzas died. It seemed like at that point all he wanted in life was to tell Talos he wasn't as much of a fuck up as he was and that all the comradery Talos showed him over the centuries wasn't done in vain. Then Talos stabbed him and gave a speech about how keeping him alive all those years was a mistake as he died.

[@isaacsiojo870]

@@NicholasW943 Well, Cyrion did set him up for it in the end. See, he framed Uzas for all the recent killings abroad the Echo of Damnation. Its also no secret that Uzas had been slipping mentally ever since his acceptance of Khorne as his patron. Then Xarl dies before they even make planet fall on Tsalgualsa. That just makes one angry and impatient Talos with no time for anyone's bullshit 😂 The real shame is Talos had fought tooth and nail to not have Uzas executed on multiple occasions because he believed that the former Sargent still had a shred of nobility in him - which he did in fact have, ironically. Fun fact, Uzas means horror in Serbian. Its just synonymous with all sorts of ugliness.

[@gammage37]

@@NicholasW943 yeah it showed really well how treacherous Sirion actually was and how Uzas though corrupted truly respected and wanted the approval of Talos as his leader and brother

[@macshadow1150]

The problems of the Night Lords is the same as the Curze problem with Nostromo. They used pretty scarry stick, but no carrot afterwords

[@The_Real_Alpharius]

S C A R Y S T I C K

[@markcoroneos7811]

The carrot was behaving so they would not have to come back 😉

[@bigbangrafa8435]

The best thing that have happened to the Space Wolves was the departure of Russ. They have gone from a bunch of assholes that punch first and ask questions later to helping Imperial Guard and Civilians to escape from the Inquisition of all people. Logan is a WAY BETTER LEADER than Russ has ever been and I hope that If he ever returns he at least come out as a better person.

[@THEHOLYCHAINSWORD]

Facts

[@velstadtvonausterlitz2338]

Pfft

[@BovineIntervention]

Everything they do is still based on being a son of russ though ? I think the punch first mentality came from the type of time period the primarchs were active in but Russ still passed his views and behavior on. Just because they're wild doesn't mean they don't care about civilians or especially if you're trying to kill their brothers with those civilians. The only difference between Russ and Grimgar is Russ would have just killed way more Grey knights for bombing the wolves.

[@bigbangrafa8435]

@@BovineIntervention Russ killed THOUSANDS of civilians in Prospero. He literally lead his wolves into a massacre of unarmed people, and they wasn't just "In the way" between them and the Thousand Sons, they DELIBERATELLY go for the civillians in a rage-fueled onslaught that probably made Khorne really happy. I"m sorry, but saying that this is remotelly comparable with putting YOUR OWN SHIPS between the man and women of Armaggedon and the Inquisition is just false. Russ never cared for normal people, maybe a little bit for the Imperial army for their bravery, but It ends there. The Emperor used him as a cleanup tool for a reason, he was a mass murderer and not a guardian. I'm not saying that he was a bad father like Curze or Angron, he clearly loved his sons. But he would never order actions like the ones Logan Grimnar take in the 40K setting, he was just not made for that (ironically Angron was made for that, unfortunatelly some asshole put some nails in his brain and now he is a demonic dickhead).

[@jaskegoffii3968]

I agree! I think it will be like a redemption story like Thor in the MCU, or maybe Thor -> Odin. Whereas Thor in the beginning was mighty but dumb, arrogant, and pretty mentally juvenile, after he gets humbled and loses an eye, Mjolnir, his people, he's a far better and wiser character. So I think it will be like that if/when he returns

[@lucasaugusto7743]

We need a video on what would happen if other primarch were to return instead of Guilliman

[@trimeerious4349]

Hmm I feel like I have heard of this one before 😉🤔( it's me , I'm the guy)

[@TheRealCatoSicarius]

I want TTS Rogal Dorn to speak when they do his part.

[@dualwieldroxas358]

Probably not much, unless it is Dorn. Russ is too wild to care about reorganizing the Imperium. Corax only cares about killing Lorgar and is a partial chaos beast. The Lion would be a great returning Primarch, but he would still have a lot of trouble reorganizing the Imperium (still a pretty effective Primarch, though). Vulkan would be a HUGE morale boost for the best huggers in the Imperium, but he is not really a great leader of non-Space Marines. Dorn would be an extremely effective boon to the Imperium, as he would no doubt start building fortifications around Cicatrix Maledictum. But ultimately, Gilly-Boy was the best possible choice for the Imperium at that time, tbh

[@a15thcenturysuitofgothicarmor]

🎯

[@TheRealCatoSicarius]

@@dualwieldroxas358 uncorrupted fulgrim clone 🧐🧐? 🤔

[@byro_]

The fact that they have so much lore compared to a lot of the other traitor astartes and yet don't have their own codex is the true crime.

[@darth_elsa6681]

Konrad killed thousands to spare millions....some of his brothers only spared whoever was left.

[@benlaw2274]

And they still bitched and moaned at him

[@pole8740]

@@benlaw2274 he was a victim of his environment 100%, if big E gave a fuck about any of his sons, Konrad would’ve gotten the help he needed, therapy

[@Yuiichiiro]

​@@pole8740Holy terra, idk if I can say this... But holy hell is Big E a massive c**t

[@gerardotejada2531]

Spare? The Nightlords would kill women and children to scare ther oponents. Its about being efficient, not about being good.

[@therealvoid365]

​@@gerardotejada2531 wtf does this mean

[@v10l3t40]

I was actually thinking the same thing reading the Night Lords Omnibus. Being a slave under them would be better than being a Word Bearers slave, considering the Night Lords literally let trusted slaves fly thunderhawks

[@crazymanmot]

I think the contrass between the humane night lords and the cartoon villain ones is a great way to tell the story of a space marine legion that degenerated. You can just barely see the embers of heroism in them while all their brothers around them push each other to embrace their depravity, and even innovate in it.

[@QuietB4]

Majorkill is having a Bricky moment

[@deadstatic511]

I mean, it's a super hot take but like... I totally get it though.

[@raptorxrise5386]

Not really. at least not anymore. I see this exact take all the time both on youtube and reddit

[@kuafer3687]

It is not a hot take it's ciclejerked everywhere on reddit and misses the whole point of Curze's story arc

[@deadstatic511]

@@raptorxrise5386 Cool and good for you! It's my first time seeing it! 😉

[@deadstatic511]

@@kuafer3687 I thought the video about the service record of the Night Lords in general but I guess I watched the wrong video. Serves me right for not joining the circle jerks you seem to frequent on reddit! 😉

[@Maxsmack]

Konrad will likely be very easy to bring back to life via cloning because of how clean his death was. Maybe that’s why he didn’t want his assassin harmed, because he was really doing Konrad and the future imperium a huge favor. He wasn’t very corrupted and his soul likely wasn’t forfeit at the time of his death. Death is preferable when looking at some smelly boys, like who knows what 10,000 years has done to Morty’s soul

[@tristanmora1081]

The next video: do the entire pantheon of the Eldar Gods and what they're up to

[@jacobarbogast2620]

Nurgle has 1 of them, Khorne and Slaanesh broke another 1 into a bunch of little pieces and the rest are dead... the end. Oh and one is playing hide and seek in the webway

[@sethest546]

hahahahahahahaha

[@jacobarbogast2620]

Yes! Cegorach is the 1 laughing his ass off in the Webway. You don't need a lore video my man you already know what's up

[@Bigfire253]

​@@jacobarbogast2620 I thought only 2 survived Cegorach the laughing god and Khaine the god of war (only after receiving the catan treatment) so who's the third?

[@jacobarbogast2620]

Isha

[@andrewmccoll1582]

You should make a video comparing and contrasting very similar legions, like the Night Lords v Alpha Legion, Imperial Fists v Iron Warriors, etc

[@darko-man8549]

Night lords vs RG is more appropriate

[@notapuma]

Nightlords vs Blood Angels would make more sense, Konrad and Sanginius were practically 2 sides of the same sword. In the end, the Red Thirst turned Blood Angels into exactly what they all feared The Nightlords were, but weren't. Ironic.

[@guilhermecesar9185]

The Night Lords take a new level of that famous Machiavelli's phrase: "For a Leader, It's better being feared by the people then being loved by them". And it's funny see that they are even some good duelists who fight straitfoward against their enemies and rarely using cheap tatics or cheating, showing how they are more less than a bunch of sadistic Joker and more like a P.eacemaker

[@markcoroneos7811]

Theres also the other one (paraphrasing); if you must commit wicked acts to cement your rule then do them all at once. Everything you do after that will seem reasonable and fair. To commit them over time will create resentment and opposition”.

[@JazzerciseJustice]

Thats a stupid phrase

[@cassdobbins1605]

Nightlords defecting from chaos and coming back to the Imperium would be a cool storyline.

[@starhawk3657]

It would have to be for a pretty good reason, I personally don't see that going very well considering what Kurze did in his time. The most I can see happening is Big Blue locking them up in a prison so they can keep an eye on them if he doesn't out right execute them for being traitors.

[@conDoin07]

There’s always been something about the ferocious nobility of Konrad and Sevatar that was missing from the other primarchs and heresy era astartes

[@ianyoder2537]

If you ask me personally, I think it says a lot that the concept of honor in combat is often upheld by the powerful few who can afford heavy armor, well crafted weapons, servants to maintain sed gear, and are regularly well fed and have the time to train all day. And they expect the servant class who are malnourished, under equipped and only have time to work to fight them in the same manor. It's almost like those in power create rules that appear to be fare but only benefit themselves. If you were to ask a twisted conniving jerk like me what honor in combat means, I'll say ending the fight as quickly as possible with minimal harm and suffering so that we can both return to our loved ones. Does this mean I prefer stealth, sabotage, deception, fear tactics, and underhanded tricks, yes. Does this mean I'm alright with harming children and non combatants. No, especially children.

[@derstein3368]

I agree there really is no such thing as honor or fairnes in a real fight you do everyting you can to win because if you dont you are just handycapping yourself for no real reason

[@sovietunion7643]

the best thing about the night lords is that they get you thinking about what is the moral correct thing to do in complex scenarios.

[@StayFrostyX279]

Tekkadan would just agree.

[@drachna]

Yeah, but I doubt that there are many examples of 'honourable' knights returning home from wars in history.

[@ianyoder2537]

@@drachna Ever hear the phrase "history is written by the victor?" You can write what ever truth you want if there's no one around to contest it. I'm sure there were plenty of historical warriors who shared a similar sentiment but understood it wasn't popular, so they retroactively made their victory honorable.

[@andreibaciu7518]

"He pacified Nostromo, is what he did. He was a brave primarch vigilante. And in this house Konrad Curze is a hero! End of story"

[@drachna]

He definitely had the makings of a varsity Primarch.

[@Nobleheart111]

In the long term, Night Lord conquered worlds had more death. Mostly in the rebellions that followed as soon as the Night Lords were perceived as no longer being around. Most of their worlds descended into anarchy, civil war, and rebellion during the Horus Heresy, which tended to be far bloodier, longer and drawn out, and with higher levels of civilian casualties and infrastructure damage than any of the Ultramarine, Blood Angel, or Imperial Fist worlds. Case in point, Nostramo.

[@rendi5578]

That was their purpose as a legion, orchestrated a coup to topple tyrants,dictator or non compliant goverment, sure they liberated or conquered the world but its not their duty or purpose to rebuild it (like Imperial Fists or Ultramarines). Just like majorkill said "they fulfilled their role as a legion"

[@peenoice5176]

Well not their fault that the others can't do their jobs properly.

[@hellblaze10]

@@peenoice5176 Its the long term security that maters in the end. Control through fear alone can only hold so long as the thing they fear sticks around.

[@kuafer3687]

@@peenoice5176 Nostramo was their job

[@howdareyouexist]

was going to say this

[@seniorwhalez1]

You should make a sharrowkyn video, man reps the raven guard as their best dualist hands down and dual wields gladius like a boss

[@trimeerious4349]

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans current situation would be pretty cool ngl

[@Burnthealphabetpeople]

He’s done that or something similar

[@jrr7031]

He reminds me of that speech that the psiedo bad guy gave in the movie "Shooter". Talking about massacres in the villages being so bad that when the next village gets a whiff of the people coming they just go, immediately.

[@troyimlach1453]

Wow! I never expected the Night Lords to be so honorable.

[@RogueVindicare]

VERY FEW Night Lords are decent people, and even the decent ones love underhanded tactics so they can't really be called honorable. Konrad kept the entire legion on a leash during the great crusade which is why there were so few civilian casualties but make no mistake they are about 70% sadistic murdering scum with the other 30% being Terran-Born veterans and the very rare Nostraman marine who has a moral compass.

[@troyimlach1453]

@@RogueVindicare Thanks for the info. I recant my previous statement.

[@cincau3243]

They were far better than emperor's children 😂

[@nbyrne2914]

Xarl's death was truly epic. The last man standing after going blow for blow with a Terminator. Surely the Emperor himself was proud of his son that day.

[@cruelmilk4465]

It was a Company Champion, not terminator.

[@anothershyguy]

Funny thing is that Konrad Curze acually did make an education system, police force and etc. But one of his night lords Gendor skraivok staged a planetary Rebellion and put Nostramo the same way it was before konrad entered.

[@MorteWulfe]

Dembski-Bowden and whoever wrote Lord of the Night gave the Dark Lords a depth that was awesome. Sad if the current lore is leaving that behind.... I think Majorkill likes them because their homeworld was basically Space Australia 🤪 Edit - Simon Spurrier I think wrote Lord of the Night, which pretty sure was an inspiration for the later trilogy.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Imagine if Konrad Curze was voiced by Takahata101 aka Mr. Perfect Cell and Alucard.

[@jonathantheslow]

The fact that Remleiz managed to come up with that and put it together makes me so happy.

[@steffanyschwartz7801]

Konrad is going for a walk. He also had it in his terms “My Way”.

[@hybrid_lord]

Get out my head lol

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

I kinda wish Brandon Lee could've voiced Konrad Curze

[@michaelrussell3890]

Or Kevin Conroy (RIP) seeing as Konrad is basically 30k Batman

[@sneakywolf669]

I LOVED the part in the night lord book with Malcharion and the woman. he basically gave her a tour of the temple and then gave a long speech of his accomplishments before adding protecting her to that list.

[@darko-man8549]

The main issue with the NLs is that their tactic only lasts as long as the fear remains.

[@boartank]

The Imperium is lucky Curze didn't fall to Chaos. He would have made Angron look like a baby

[@justinweber4977]

This almost makes me think of "The Dark Knight Returns", when after beating the leader of the "Mutants" Gang, they rebrand themselves as the "Sons of Batman" and start violently fighting crime in Gotham... Such as savagely beating (I think killing?) A guy who was robbing a store, and then cutting off the fingers of the store owner because he was giving the robber the money.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Night Lords: "Hey there, loyalists! How's your health plan?" Imperial Guard: *open fire!* Night Lords: "APPARENTLY IT WAS GREAT!"

[@Grandrepublic501st]

HEY DANDI-DICK!…. You missed!!!! *runs off* Whoop whoop whoop whoop

[@flithbrin]

Something just isn't clicking in my head for some reason, can you explain the joke?

[@lowkeyarki7091]

​@@flithbrin hellsing Abridged pretty sure all of it is in youtube

[@milosstojakovic7586]

Extremely well made video with strong arguments in NLs favor. They really were the most direct and least collateral damage Astartes force. Though a lot of methods are debatable when observed individually, in grand scope of the things they had achieved the result - quick compliance, peaceful and cooperative population, another world/system added to the Imperium.

[@garrettkirchoff1573]

You give reasons for Night Lords being more humane, I raise you Raven Guard who do so without the heinous acts of the convicts of Nostromo.

[@alastor8091]

The Alpha Legion are my favorite legion, but Konrad Curze is my favorite primarch for the sheer tragedy of his life. 7:09 absolutely not. He died because at the end he was a coward. If he would've defended himself, he'd have proven that his visions weren't absolute and that he could've chosen not to be a monster. That was what he meant by vindication.

[@janbryaneguzman3023]

This shows how Majorkill knows his content and also how good of a story teller he is. Props to you bro👌

[@OneReallyGrumpyJill]

I would swap "ethical" with "responsible" - most of their actions (at least when the writing was good) was all about result. You could say that "Night Lords are most ethical" because they lowkey didn't give a shit about ethics: when there was a mission, they took the fastest way to win, and that usually involved torturing bunch of nobles (who probably had it coming) God, how badly do I want a proper Night Lord revival, make them badass again GW!

[@ReadyAimFire_]

You convinced me. When i grow up i wanna be a Night Lord.

[@zgmfx-09a]

There's still the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard who are comparable, Alpharius was even scolded by dorn for his subversive doctrine

[@genuinejoe2103]

I love how the nightlords are being called the most ethical, and Majorkill can be quoted saying, "They are incredibly unethical" Just goes to show you how head fucked Astartes really are sometimes.

[@blightcraftgamma]

Probably retconned, but there was also the Night Commander Sahaal from the novel, Lord of the night.

[@yamahadrag69]

Didn't the Night Lords' tactics also not work very well since planets would go right back to being bad once they left?

[@CyrodiilCome]

No, they worked well. Problem was if you don't back your ruling by fear you'll be overthrown

[@tychoMX]

@@CyrodiilComeI call that the perfect example of unsustainable. Nah, doesn’t work.

[@jezlawrence720]

Classic Failure to plan for the aftermath. Night lords win wars efficiently but their post invasion governance strategy is non existent, and their tactics ensure moral objection is total amongst the populace so whatever was put in would be unlikely to work. At that point you're better off killing everyone and just bringing in loyal colonists, from a utilitarian perspective. A good strategy starts at the end goal and works backwards. If you goal is get compliance and move on as fast as possible, the night lords are geniuses. If the goal is secure compliance for the long term glory of the imperium... They're utterly inept. But something often overlooked is the number of world that surrendered just hearing night lords are coming. Those worlds don't actually experience the horror of a night lords invasion. A replacement government transition will work there. If two worlds go that way for every world plunged into eventual permanent resistance... The overall benefit to the imperium is still net positive.

[@RogueVindicare]

@@tychoMX It worked perfectly as long as the Night Lords existed. As MajorKill said in the video their reputation alone would end rebellions even before they truly began. When the Horus Heresy started and the Night Lords stopped giving a shit about the planets they subjugated then they all rebelled against the Imperium which suited the Night Lords as they were a Traitor Legion anyway.

[@tychoMX]

​@@RogueVindicare but that's exactly what unsustainable means! It's like saying Fascist Italy worked while Mussolini was in charge, or Yugoslavia with Tito. They didn't last, and the aftermath was much worse. Authoritarianism and subjugation-through-fear demand constant application, even escalation. And unending escalation is not sustainable (maybe in the 40th millennium with the warp and all - there's the Drukhari after all). If you're saying "if you scare they people will obey you" well, yes, of course. That's almost platitude. The problem is: what you do next? In simple terms, you need both the stick and the carrot. I actually love how fitting the Night Lords are for the lore - it's an example of the apology of authoritarians and draconian regimes. They don't last. Heinlein has an excellent take on this on "Starship Troopers". It states that the best drill sergeants were NOT the sadists who enjoyed punishing the recruits, because the sadists just get bored and move on to something else to keep them entertained. That's exactly the Night Lords.

[@FenrirKyuubi]

Alright Majorkill, so almost two decades ago I read a book you really would enjoy(I believe). Lord of Night by Simon Spurrier. We have a Night Lord Captain who has been on Sus-An membrane hibernation for the last 10k but WAS a willing member of going traitor. He rather plainly lays out the problem with modern Night Lords vs what they were to a former friend battling him for the story Mcguffin(The things placement in lore bothers me but eh). Honestly want a genuine good example of a dedicated Night Lord and a good reason for why the Legion has become what it is you’ll need to give this one a read, or a listen if it’s available in audio format.

[@TattooedTabletop]

No lie, your lore videos really pushed me into getting a Night Lords army and starting the Night Lords Omnibus! Ave Dominus Nox!

[@laughingman7467]

Nightlords truly have mastered the way of psychological damage. Traumatizing-yes, everyone is alive-yes.

[@darrylolay2014]

We need an video on why invading Ultramar is a bad idea.

[@aggrocontrol]

Love all the nightlord content on your channel, it's spot on. They are a nuanced and truly tragic chapter that get glossed over way too often

[@rexlumontad5644]

Night Lords: *"HEY KIDS WANNA SEE A DEAD BODY?!"* Everyone: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!"

[@grumpymonk2460]

Konrad “ STOP SCREAMING” Everyone *puppy noises*

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

No…turn them into dead bodies.

[@badasscustodes1697]

@@grumpymonk2460 "ah konrad, good to know your trying to make discount salamanders?"

[@starlightdragon2665]

I got into a fight with someone over this before; because I mentioned that in the Warhammer Fantasy lore it is said that some of the chaos gods are actually good guys; Khorne is a neutral god who honors codes of war and actually practices martial laws. Nurgle actually cares about his followers and blesses them with love and glee whereas other gods might be much more cruel. In the Warhammer Fantasy lore there are good chaos gods and definitely really bad ones. So to hear the Night Lord's are actually following a code and are technically good guys in the way you described gives me a reason to appreciate the chaos factions a bit more

[@MrDarthtelos]

A small change to their follow up doctrines after achieving compliance could’ve made it FAR less likely that those planets would rebel later.

[@kuafer3687]

The whole point of Nostramo and its fate is that Konrad's philosophy and NL tactics didn't work even in the short run.

[@nicolasberg6828]

How about a video on the Alpha Legions way of recruitment and how this sooner or later will lead to Alpha Legion Primaris Marines.

[@notafed6302]

ive read majority of the nightlords books back to back several times, thank you for doing this video, it all makes sense now.

[@MrPiccolop]

One of the Greatest scenes in 40k: Charadons and Night Lords stalking eachother on the Prison world. But best scene ever, Tyberius, manhandling a load of Hive Tyrants or some such in close quarters in close hand to hand combat. There's a reason they call him the 'Red Wake'.

[@JordanI135]

MK you turned me onto Night Lords with some of your earlier vids. First chapter/warband I painted. Got me to read the books. I love it bruh. Thank you.

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

Sadly I can't disagree with what you said here. The only thing is that do we use the few good night lords to explain the Legion or the massive amount of shit head nightlords. I actually really like those few interesting night lords you talked about, I just don't know if they are who I think of when I think of the night lords, or even if that's who I should be thinking of. Even tho they are named and important characters, they all seem like the exception rather than the rule. Even more so in the current times. Also, I do have to say, the concept of "warcrimes" is a thing for a reason and there are good reasons for all the no nos on that list. I think the point of the lost existing is that these atrocities are so bad that even good intentions and good results aren't enough to cover the evil of the atrocity. Not to mention, those people who have been cowed are not willfully compliant. They are terrified and will likely rebel or run at first chance

[@majorkill]

The night lords I used as examples are the most honoured, revered and looked up to night lords in the legion. They were the night lords that the others wanted to be like

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

@Majorkill I totally agree! I just don't think it wound up being enough to make them what they could have been, or should have been. And I love the characters you brought up. I just read the book "pharos" and I think those night lords and how just awful they were ruined me for them. Dantioch dying and them keeping that soldier mericus alive during and after they skinned his body kind of soured me to them. I really liked dantioch and pollux and I can't separate the night lords from the tear jerking convo between the two of them as dantioch died. I'll admit I'm probably just a little bitter over that

[@Thalanox]

"Do we use the good night lords or the shitheads to judge the legion?" The good ones. When your side is the "generic bad guy" in stories that don't get a name or any character development, then the incentive to write a simple and emotionally satisfying story is to humanize and detail the opposing side as little as possible. They're about as developed in most stories as zombies are. When they're the main characters, then things get a LOT more interesting.

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

@Thalanox I 100 percent understand what you're saying. But wouldn't that be more just the point of view of those specific narratives? I'm not sure you could necessarily use those individual stories as representation for the entire Legion when we have plenty of lore evidence of the contrary. It would seem like those "good night lords" would be the exception and an extreme outlier and minority. And I won't mislead here, I haven't gotten to read every single book on nightlords, so I would be interested in getting to the ones you're talking about. I kind of love that about WH, really both opinions can be right on topics like this. They have such an interesting way to writing their characters, no matter where they fall on your good-evil scale, that there is a nice debate to be had. That and if I'm being truthful, no one or even 10 space marines is enough to fully represent that Legion. Especially not in 40k

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

@Thalanox also, quickly, I don't think any of the night lords in "pharos", which makes them villains, could be called generic. Just because they aren't sevator doesn't mean they aren't a unique and individual character. Plenty of those night lords had their own stories and were pretty well all bad guys. I do think you over generalized them as generic bad guys. You could say the same about the other spectrum of character like ultramarines or imperial fists. My point is that when I say "shit head night lords", I don't mean unnamed night lords

[@travis8106]

I'm just getting into 40k now, and finding your channel has been a warm welcoming of sorts to the lore. Cheers

[@AliveRumble082]

I don’t know. I’ve always seen their tactics as ineffective. Since, they require consistent presence to maintain rule. Wasn’t it stated somewhere, most of their worlds broke out into rebellion during the Horus Heresy? Additionally, I don’t think their tactics work at all against any other race than humans. So, they were definitely one of the legions that the emperor probably didn’t expect to last after the great crusade.

[@entropicflux8849]

eldar feel fear a thousand times more keenly than a human ever could.

[@tychoMX]

@@entropicflux8849yeah, but they have their own terrors. Drukhari are much worse than NL.

[@RogueVindicare]

@@tychoMX But Space Marines are much stronger and efficient than drukhari, the new iron within animation showcases this well.

[@OK-yy6qz]

To be fair they're soldiers and special forces in that not Police officers. Their role is to use terror tactics to enforce a Quick surrender (which usually works) after that it's up to the Guard/Planetary Defence force/Police or whatever the Planet has to enforce peace. Space Marines are very specialised and only fitting for one very specific task.

[@AliveRumble082]

@@OK-yy6qz I understand their legion suppose to fill in the niche of terror tactics in history. I just don’t think long term they were ever meant to stick around post great crusade. Because they do a very bad job against a lot of the Xeno matchups which I think were a big problem even in the Great Crusade with all the xeno empires. Not sure how well the nightlords tactics would work against chaos. It’s kinda why I see in the nightlord trilogy they lean much heavier on using unconventional tactics or entirely stealth like ravenguard. It’s rare for them to actual use scare tactics in those books. It’s mostly for their own amusement over effectiveness.

[@BaldWolf]

Thanks bro, you've made me review my thinking on the Lords, your right the are probably the most noble of the so called traitor legions or the loyal legions.

[@jinguini8001]

I wouldn’t say Conrad not ascending to becoming a demon prince is “him being tru to himself to the end” more like he needed this to happen to justify his actions by having it show that “things were out of his control”

[@internetuser320]

The title of the video is like: "Why the world eater is the most calm and collective legion" But you have some good point majorkill

[@UrbanArmada]

I think the important take away is that almost all the "nice" Night Lords are written by ADB.

[@swiggityswoogity961]

Me, cooking breakfast as I listen to this video when majorkill starts talking abt watching videos while cooking: :o

[@declangrey1185]

The prime night lords always make me think of this quote from the 2014 Dracula movie "Men do not fear swords. They fear monsters. They run from them. By putting one village to the stake, I spared ten more. Sometimes the world no longer needs a hero. Sometimes what it needs... is a monster."

[@brodyestes2376]

TLDR: The original Night Lords were very much anti-hero, paragons of justice. But now that the average nightlord is a horrible bastard, not many of the originals remain

[@TheRealRealMClovin]

I wonder how it would have gone if Lion L Johnson became warmaster/traitor instead of Horus, As it is hinted that the emperor knew whoever became warmaster would become traitor, then that it is mentioned Lion L’Johnson was the emperors second choice.

[@aNytmare]

7:00 "caused him to have memory loss, mood swings, schizophrenia and memory loss" missed opportunity for a great joke there!

[@ritche444]

Konrad liked to point out that he was the Primarch with the lower body count among his brothers, when he was sane mind you.

[@arnaudboisse-malervergne3133]

They're ethical from an utilitarian point of view "The means justify the ends". But to be fair the Raven Guard approach is just as morale since they target key military infrastructures and personal and then they swoop in once their foe is disarmed. Without playing galactic football with babies while using a power foot to kick them. Could have been cool to see a good cop/bad cop dynamic with the Night Lords and Raven Guard or the more diplomatic Emperor'children and Word Bearers. Or that a faction of Night Lords prey on the ecclesiarchy because they either view them as miserable rivals or potential tools to be used for hyping up the terror of the Night Lords

[@cp1cupcake]

I mean, my understanding is the Thousand Suns make the Night Lords look like the other legions in comparison. I got the impression they would just use sorcerers to convince planets to surrender without ANY bloodshed. To the extent that they got into fights with other legions, mostly non-violent but some turned bloody, because how they conquered was that different.

[@RogueVindicare]

Exactly, when you're an incredibly powerful sorcerer that can read minds, feel emotions and influence thoughts taking planets by making whoever's in charge want you to take the planet should be child's play.

[@synergy8879]

@@RogueVindicare or when the people realize that the big red man and his little red men can throw meteors like baseballs, you realize you are out of your league

[@OutrageousOnPurpose]

The Night lord being of the chaos kool-aid (for most of them) make them so fun to read about, they have actual thoughs hat arent alien to us (the reader) unlike most of the corrupted astartes

[@tengkualiff]

Before watching, im just gonna assume because they just straight up torture the worst of the worst and actually try to serve justice and order where they are. (The only good things i can think about NLs tbh)

[@0lderSch00l]

Good video. I do like how the overall theme of Warhammer, that of the degeneration of everything from cultures and societies to even what ethics and morals mean (a Sister of Battle and a Catholic Nun will have very, very conflicting opinions) plays through with the Night Lords. Though I also agree that a bit more nuance would serve them far better, but they are the one legion where that kind of degradation makes complete sense; they're made up of mostly violent criminals now, the old ways of codes of conduct and honorable action have literally been killed out of them. Having said that, I wanted to pass on a bit of insight. I am a Desert Storm Vet from America and I want to talk to you about what long term, systemic fear does and how it is neither ethical nor moral. I was in for the whole thing; from Desert Shield through Desert Storm. I was in the Navy. The only reason we didn't stay longer than 8 1/2 months is because our former Captain was in charge of ship deployment and he liked us. For a solid 7+ months we lived under the constant threat of attack. We knew the capabilities of the enemy, that they had a few weapons that they would (and eventually did) use in an attempt to destroy key vessels. My ship, as an amphibious assault ship full of marines and tanks ready to ruin someone's day, was a prime target for those weapons. We didn't know where or when or even how the attack would come, only that it could come at any moment. It was, to quote Stephen King, "a long season in hell." I never slept more than three hours at a time, I was constantly on edge, constantly irritated and every time I was topside (out in the sun) I was scanning the horizon regularly. The stress was simultaneously impossible to pin down and ever present, like a faint smell you can't place but can't get rid of either. I'm now 52. a couple times a month I wake up with that fear still gnawing at my brain. Sometimes I hear the voices of people repeating things that they said back then, as if whispering in my ear. I can't take part in the 4th of July, Memorial Day or Veteran's Day celebrations because fireworks and sudden loud noises thrust me into panic mode. Now, having shared this, do you still think that the Night Lord's standard practice of torturing an entire planet constantly through fear is more humane than simply wiping them out in order to force compliance? In the end they are probably making the same percentage of people useless to society that a Salamander assault would, the only real difference is that the Night Lords victims suffer constantly for years if not decades.

[@josemanuelaguero68]

The saddest part of this video is your comprehension on what ethics are, it's like reading a code of ethics from Halliburton or British Petroleum

[@mphoramathe1801]

Brutal calculus and utilitarian ethics are just the most mathematical form of ethics. The position is sound when you're looking at the bottom line, but can have some annoying repercussions. They have their place, as do the ethics of honor, power hugs and world flattening engagement. Then again ethics is just another tool to get the job done... because Hydra Dominatus - For the Emperor!

[@dekafrost9071]

Finally a video of my favorite Legion. Keep up the good work.

[@minipaintingforyou]

Remember, they slaughter innocents for fun, even the crews of their own vessels… ADBs Night Lords trilogy are to this day my most favourite 40k stories.

[@Tom_E_S.]

Huh. What a coincidence. I bought the Night Lords omnibus just yesterday after your recommendation in your last video about them. Sometimes, the universe just works.

[@DirtyBird28]

We don't live in a time where nuance is understood or approved. GW's writing simply reflects the current culture.

[@cjevans6464]

The only reason I think the emperor kept the night lords was because you need a monster to kill a monster because sevotar was a crazy scary fighter

[@dollamoneyman4864]

Majorkill can you do a video on the planets of the Sol System in 40k?

[@tychoMX]

Contagion of Ganymede!

[@cody1570]

They have always been one of my favorites. People look down on underhanded tricks and yet more got done with less in a faster way with the least amount of damage with the alpha legion and the nightlords. Plus lightning bolts on their armor are badass

[@Blazegraze12]

I think it's more accurate to call the Night Lords the most efficient legion as opposed to the most ethical and humane one.

[@howdareyouexist]

efficient at getting world's under control but shit at running them

[@jackbaxter2223]

A large part of Void Stalker is Talos slowly realising that he was deluding himself about the supposed nobility and honour of his legion's past. He admits that they were sadistic psychopaths who were needlessly cruel well past the point when it became counter-productive, and that the reason he continues to fight against the Imperium is because he believes that they were betrayed by it, regardless of their own wrongdoing. In one of the Horus Heresy novellas, Sevatar actually confronts the primarch Konrad Curze about his cruelty, calling him out about his motives and declaring that the only reason why the Night Haunter used fear to rule was because it was easy. Curze can't even refute him on that and just tries to leave.

[@TheJacktor]

If Aaron Dempski Bowden (who lets be real here are the reason the nightlords are so well written) doesn't give us a conclusion to Sevatar's story ima rage

[@DGARedRaven]

You make a compelling code, but you're making the same crucial mistake that a lot of others do - The CONSEQUENCES. Your points make perfect sense - but the Night Lords also forget about the fact that fear is a very bad way to ENSURE that stuff STAYS fixed in the long run.

[@martinratagris]

I don't agree, yes their tactics did ensure that worlds would surrender but just like when Konrad left his world and it returned to be a lawless place full of crime, the moment that there where no Nightlords to fear, these worlds has no reason to remain loyal. Yes, there are some amazing Nightlords, just like there were amazing Thousand Sons, World Eaters and Emperor Childrens. The young woman survived not thanks to all the Nightlords but to a single Nightlord. Yes, the Imperial Fists and Ultramarines destroyed more of a world but then rebuilt it to be loyal to the empire. It seems like the Nightlords sacrificed less people but by forcing the world to surrender through fear instead of defeating it in battle and rebuilding it, they ensure that these worlds will rebel when the shock wore off in a generation or so ensuring more death has to occur. It is the Ultramarines, Imperial Fists etc the ones who did the bloody work to ensure less death in the future. Primarchs and Space Marines don't and shouldn't think in terms of a few years but in terms of centuries or millenia. Not what ensures a world surrenders now but what ensures a world remain loyal for centuries.

[@RogueVindicare]

You're right but understand that this worked out perfectly for the Night Lords anyway as when the worlds they forced into compliance rebelled during the Horus Heresy they were already a traitor legion against the imperium. And other than that I don't think Konrad really cared about the Imperium, he was just doing the only thing he knew how to justify to himself that his methods worked and were the only way. Perhaps Konrad foresaw that this would happen which is why he allowed the worlds to remain in the state they were in so they would rebel? Definitely made it harder for the Imperium when every world the Night Lords ever conquered rebelled.

[@dragonknight5399]

I have started reading the night lords books centered around Talos based off of your video of him you did however long ago it was, but which i only saw recently. I'm really enjoying the duality of his personality vs his obvious disdain/hate for the majority of his brothers. It's my first chaos/non-imperial book and i am finding it far more interesting than the Uriel Ventriss (?)series (which i abandoned about 3 chapters into his third book of omnibus volume 1). Keep up the good work. You're basically my go to lore and reading material.

[@cyberneticthezero]

Do a day In the life of series for a normal soldier for each army 😂

[@jslrnzrbntn]

Head canon: a fat number of Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Alpha Legionnaires are not Chaos tainted just renegade warbands. I imagine them with Mk III to Mk V armors with scraps and mods from newer Imperium tech-even Xenos tech. Either salavaged or plundered.

[@SirMythcat]

Someone finally understood! Thanks, majorkill!