I RUINED My Friend's Relationship By Telling The Truth About My Involvement r/Relationships

[@M_IAWIA]

Story 1: Sophia is scary manipulative. R.U.N. Edit: OP is a dissapointment

[@locusxe1411]

Yep. All he has to do is tell Noah what she told him and be done with it. After that the balls in Noah’s court.

[@KadeStringer2.0]

Op isn’t in the wrong

[@RoseSpirit25]

@@KadeStringer2.0you'll realize when you no longer have any friends who trust you that he is 100% in the wrong. Normal mentally stable people don’t act like that.

[@kateajurors8640]

He has no evidence and Sophia already has the sky eating out of the Palm of her hand and if he runs to him changing his story now to fit sophia's narrative, rather than just leaving it be. Or trying to tell him an even more convoluted story. It will make him look suspicious. And I'm sure Sofia communicate that to her favor he's right to just leave it be unless he has evidence. Honestly, he needs to cut them both out.Stay away from that drama

[@juliearmfield2634]

This little girl is a bunny boiler.

[@HoodieHorizon]

Story 2: man she could have AT LEAST sent a quick "hi! I got your gift and will be sure to let you know when I open it as I have anxiety about these sorts of things. Thank you!" And then boom! Problem solved. OP's parents seem like they're the type of people who love seeing other people happy and excited and OP just sounded exhausted and like he was talking to a brick wall

[@janedoe885]

Sophia is isolating Noah, taking him from his hobbies, refusing to communicate, and being insanely controlling. She is abusing Noah and keeping him in a state of emotional distress/lacking confidence for her own benefit. If OP doesn't tell Noah he's a MASSIVE asshole.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@untitled-gv3qp]

Fr. And Noah has past trauma with infidelity. She's using his trauma to tie that poor dude into an abusive relationship and the OP thinks it's okay because "he's a better boyfriend". The OP doesn't even know if Sophia is telling the truth about him being a bad boyfriend or if Sophia was even telling the truth about her just manipulating Noah and not cheating on him.

[@chickensandwich8808]

This 100%

[@robertx8020]

I agree with you but I'm afraid there is no way in h*ll the BF will believe him! She will tell him that OP is just jealous Sad but true

[@janedoe885]

@@robertx8020 Nah I getchu, there is a very real chance Noah won’t believe the guy. I think the suggestion about sending him the reddit link and saying do with the info what he will but he is personally cutting ties with Sophia over this regardless would be a solid way to go. Noah doesn’t have to just take his word, but if he is aware that it’s possible Sophia could be like this at least he’ll be able to keep his eyes open to the issue.

[@katiecakesl4691]

Story 2: OP's girlfriend acknowledges that her anxiety caused a problem but doesn't want to be diagnosed. Girl...this is proving detrimental to your relationships and your partners relationships. Once you know then not only can you find resources to help with that anxiety, but also others can better understand you and support you. It is 100% worth it to know. Take it from me. I'm neurodivergent with an anxiety disorder. This time last year I was so agoraphobic I couldn't leave the house without having a full sobbing panic attack. Today I can go do grocery shopping on my own, and am overall happier and healthier, and my relationship with my husband is stronger than ever. I still have a long way to go, I still get anxious but panic attacks are few and far between. It took a lot of work but it is super worth it. I might even be able to manage a part time job soon. Go get diagnosed and some therapy, you're worth it.

[@tonyblake7569]

Story 2, why do people even get her gifts? If it's that bad for her wouldn't a better gift not getting her a gift? Completely remove the pressure for her.

[@cattyanamontes5724]

Story 2: gf is exhausting. Girl, bye.

[@gibbybot]

Adults need to handle their issues. I’m not coddling a grown adult or tip-toeing around their ridiculous behaviors so they don’t “spiral”. Get your crap together, go to therapy, get on some meds if you need to. Don’t expect other people to tolerate rude BS.

[@Mitzthatonekid]

NT people when nuerodivergent people just exist and have problems: 🤨😤🤬

[@locusxe1411]

Yeah Op is a coward in story 1. No one’s saying he has to believe you! Just tell him to give him the heads up and leave it at that. What he decided to do with that is on him. And if your friends turn against you without hearing your side then it’s good riddance. I wouldn’t want to be as associated with people like this at all

[@anthonygilmour6236]

All you had to do is talk to the mutual friends and get them to help. But he's too much of a coward.

[@nondisclosure3920]

He should not have agreed to go along with it. He could have just said, that if the boyf asks he won't lie for her but he won't approach him about it either. Meanwhile, he should tell all their friends what she's doing, I bet some will be able to corroborate elements, like her complaining about Noah at the start of the relationship. I wonder whether she's been giving the same best friend schtick to the mutual friends as well? As it seems like a glaring risk if Noah mentions it to them in general conversation

[@league-of-shadows]

Story 2: The GF sounds exhausting, but I understand she can’t help it entirely. I don’t blame the boyfriend for opening it, he was trying to help and she was getting deeper and deeper into her issues. She needs a way to deal with this.

[@jr5557]

I blame him for opening it. He opened it because of how his parents were feeling and what they might think. Not because he only wanted to help her

[@bryn1063]

Ikr. It's been a week.. It's one thing if she opened it the minute they left, but at that point, shes being rude. Especially since she never thanked them properly. (Before the update) She also wasn't communicating. She's literally creating a problem and knew what the gift was.. also I agree completely by ignoring it like this you're allowing this problem to worsen by keeping up the waiting.

[@patty-pat-pat]

I wouldnt have opened the gift either, i would give it back to my parents. Incredibly rude.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

I think they both messed up. She was indulging her anxiety and being a bit rude (we all need to indulge our anxiety now and then); he didn’t bother to ask her why she was having so much trouble opening this specific gift.

[@Fitz1993]

The thing is, she can absolutely help it, she is actively choosing to wallow in her anxiety instead of getting help. As for the OP, you cannot blame him for not being a qualified therapist and not knowing what to do in the situation... Opening the gift for her was more than reasonable when she was blatantly being unreasonable and not doing anything to resolve the situation.

[@SteviiLove]

"There is no victim here" YTA

[@Knives7777]

Story 2: Yall are nicer than me. That would be the last gift she ever got from my parents.

[@kaykay8855]

Story 1: NTA. Sophia is cheating, and is using op as an alibi. Update: So Sophia was ‘testing’ Noah. Noah needs to leave her and op is TA for going along with the plan.

[@KadeStringer2.0]

Op isn’t in the wrong

[@hopelessromantic3786]

​@@KadeStringer2.0He was from the second he agreed to lie for her

[@Center-For-I.E.D.Mismanagement]

​@@hopelessromantic3786 Pay no attention to Kade. He's a sad, little rage baiter with nothing better to do with his life.

[@Elle44289]

It wasn't a test. Wrong frame.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

That is such a fake excuse she gave the OP. She's trying to cover her tracks by manipulating the OP into being an active cover for her infidelity.

[@19nmiller1]

Story 2 - OP is NTA at all. I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder when I was 10 and have huge anxious avoidant tendences, and I can tell you that the girlfriend literally would have never opened the gift if OP didnt step in. I agree that its normally uncouth for people to open up gifts that arent their own, but it was *days* after. OP saved his girlfriend from nuking his relationship with his parents and kept the parents from thinking any lower of her. I hope this is a huge wakeup call to the girlfriend because she needs that cold slap of reality to get her in motion. Im honestly annoyed by everyone being so harsh on OP because obviously y'all have never had a direct experience with someone who has crippling anxious avoidance.

[@xelectrix]

Story 1: OP has a spine made of overcooked spaghetti

[@chickensandwich8808]

This is an underrated comment.

[@SteffenF]

story 2: i would not open the gift but simply give it back. she doesnt want it. she is rude.

[@Bucketus.Lord.of.Buckets]

S1: She's a psycho. He's not wasting time playing video games with friends. "He's a better boyfriend now because she's lying and manipulating him! They're a cure couple!" Both OP and the friend are absolute trash. BF needs to be an ex and leave so quickly a cloud shaped version of bim is left behind. "I'm not justifying her actions," Yes, you are. She's a--sive, and you're aiding in it. You're both monsters.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@untitled-gv3qp]

The OP acknowledged that she's manipulative, but he still believes that Noah is an awful boyfriend and that using his trauma to force him into compliance is reasonable?!? It's so aggravating that the OP is just letting his friend stumble into an abusive situation without a heads up because he wants to save his own skin. She could still be lying about everything too. The only explanation for her actions was given by her and her word can't be trusted. She could be cheating like everyone speculated and the mental manipulation could just be a part of it.

[@sorinsilverheart3200]

OP is an orbiter. Height say he doesn't want her but he clearly does. Simp behavior

[@chickensandwich8808]

​@@sorinsilverheart3200 ok, cool non sequitur.

[@holographicwing]

@@sorinsilverheart3200 He rejected her when she offered herself up on a plate he's just useless.

[@lisathornton2187]

I had sympathy for the gift anxiety girl until she said she didn't want to get diagnosed or get help. She's hurting herself and all the people around her who care about her, and then decides she's cool with that.

[@carolinebcollier]

Story 2 is a test of my empathy. People are complex; life can be complicated, tragic, and scary causing all manner of anxieties but receiving/opening/acknowledging a gift?! A GIFT! Good grief! 🙄 It reads ungrateful and waaaay too precious for my patience towards others’ untreated issues. She needs to get a grip and get over herself.

[@TopazFire15]

The worst part about OP1 was insisting there were no victims. NOAH IS IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP, idiot! Just because it hasn’t escalated to physical violence doesn’t mean mind games and manipulation aren’t abuse!! He’d be less of an AH if he said he didn’t want to be involved anymore for his own sake, but saying there are no victims is disgusting.

[@chickensandwich8808]

Op1 is part of the problem.

[@IsisRenee1]

Story 2: The GF is rude AF. She is rude to the gift givers. She shouldn’t ever get anything from anyone. People saying she has OCD, fine, she still shouldn’t get anything. Problem solved.

[@marikka9347]

It is strange that she could drop a lot of hints by taĺking about the bag, but then there were issues opening it. I wonder how many missed the part that one reason for not opening it would be disappointment in the gift NOT being the bag. Too many games are shuffled off as being neuro divergent, etc.... It sounds more like she is playing games. Like I said, she had no issues hinting that she wanted the bag, but the games begin once a gift arrives. We really need to not always jump to mollycoddling people. People you have a close relationship with will rise to your expectations of them. If your expectations are low then you can cut off their development. I have seen this play out with parents and children mostly, but other types of relationships work this way. New parents have an infant and it becomes clear that neuro divergence or something else occurs that could cause restrictions in said child's future. Parents being excited and filled with all these dreams and expectations often over correct and set the bar so low it is ridiculous. You can often tell which parent is which when you care for the children. It becomes a difference when some children can be taken to the park, play freely in the home, etc.... Then there is the other one that you have to follow around the house as they knock things on the floor or have to hold their hand if we are on the second floor patio because they would jump off it just because (usually because it creates chaos). There is way too much mollycoddling nowadays and that diminishes people's potential. Things need to be addressed, but you need to keep your eyes open. Sometimes people get used to chaos, games, and/or manipulation and people miss the signs so the person never gets the actual help they need. This girl seemed to be in a power struggle with the boyfriend and/or the parents. The hints were there that at best it was a game. She may not even realize what she is doing because she has never been called on it and/or never had expectations based on being polite, humble, and thankful. She certainly isn't turning gifts down and it seems she never acted like this previously (long wait), so thankful is appropriate, unless she wants to decline gifts. Possessing humility is an excellent quality to possess.

[@jrod1591]

Yea it’s wild that she makes relationships around her more awkward.

[@ficklefossils]

S1 is not victimless and not just drama as op says, she’s abusing that man psychologically and isolating him from his support network, op is enabling an abuser. Speaking from experience the isolation and her current manipulative and downright vile behavior is a big sign further abuse could be coming in some form

[@jodieg6318]

OP is just as guilty and vile as Sophia, he has the power to end this but actively chooses not to. I get the sickening feeling g he is taking notes for any relationship he might have. Speaking from experience too, this kind of abuse takes years to recover from, and just what else is Sophia going to pressure him into?

[@eldeano9964]

Sophia would be less toxic if she was cheating. Noah will turn into the man she wants, according to the fantasy in her head, and it will not work out the way she wants. She will also lose respect for him as he does everything she wants and she'll punish him for it instead of accepting that she's wrong.

[@brianaschmidt910]

Guys. I learned a magical trick for when I'm overwhelmed. It's called. "I'm overwhelmed/overstimulated. Can we continue the convo when I'm better able to handle it?" Then walk away

[@demonheart13]

Unfortunately some people will consider that very logical sentence "childish" and follow you to continue a conversation. I know, I lived with these people. Me: I'm overwhelmed, gonna go tk my room. Family: no (Literally would find a place to hide on my own birthday because I hate parties, yet my mom would inevitably come find me to "be social" be ause I'm "being rude" Lady if I spend any more time out there I'm gonna start crying but that's also rude. Showing emotions at all is rude to some people Unfortunately. I give my mother slack be ause her mother was legit worse, feeling that even saying things like I love you to her children was wrong. She didn't display any negative or positive emotions except in small bursts and went right back to being critical of everything. At least my mother hugged me I guess. She just couldn't handle any negative emotions displayed, like sadness overwhelmed and anger and either ignored them or tried to joke about them which probably was a solid attempt at making me happy but only felt like bullying her own child. I had to be the mature one and thankfully for me that only slightly involved hiding what I actually feel to make others happy. The only semi good thing is it's a great skill in customer service, unfortunately I can't really turn it off when I get home or I just fully stop caring.

[@holographicwing]

That magical trick tends to not work when you use it against most people who will refuse to drop the argument or conflict until they are satisfied and will just follow you or keep demanding to talk about it.

[@jake8748]

​@demonheart13 and then you will be called overly emotional or a crybaby too. Then eventually you learn to bottle so well and mask that you instead get called emotionless. Atleast that's me. I just have internal panic attacks and hide inflicting pain (digging nails into my leg for example) to calm my self until I can get quiet. Not healthy but then it's hard for people to have empathy for something they don't believe is real or a struggle and you just have to deal with everything alone.

[@Rankinen]

If he believes that Noah wouldn't believe him, OP could send the reddit post and tell Noah to do whatever he wants with this information. Reddit post has dates for timeline and the comments would help Noah to see his situation better. But OP seems to be a major AH so he just buries his head into sand.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@thomasjoseph5876]

I think the OP is jealous of their relationship. He feels he is a "better" person than Noah but yet, Noah has a girlfriend and the OP doesn't lol.

[@mbyerly9680]

Give the "anxious" GF a gift card. The same amount every time. Sigh. Anxious and neurotic people are just so exhausting. I'll be surprised if OP doesn't eventually break it off with her. A romantic relationship should be a safe place in the chaos of life, and she definitely isn't give that to OP.

[@jrod1591]

Can’t imagine what other problems she has. If this is one of her ticks, wonder how many more she has.

[@JasperCatProductions]

Story 2 she did you a huge favor. No more gifts….tell your parents she doesn’t want gifts. I wouldn’t buy her anymore presents. A bit rude putting it off? No insanely rude. She sounds ridiculous. She needs a safe space to open a present? Good grief

[@winters0lider976]

For real, I'm all about people needing safe spaces for their mental health but this is just ridiculous

[@ringluvr]

Story 2: She would never get anything from me, ever again. I'd save money. Win for me.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

Yeah. It sounds like the gf is using her anxiety as an excuse to behave in a really rude and self-centered way.

[@CircusoftheMoon]

She’s a girlfriend so honestly it’s easy enough to end the relationship. I may sound dramatic, but if this is how she is over a gift I’d hate to see her in a real situation with actual stakes.

[@kdsamparo1728]

I agree! She was hinting like crazy and then gets scared about opening it. What a loser! She was rude to the parents as well. GF is a Materialistic, thoughtless, self centered brat!

[@jrod1591]

“She didn’t want to be disappointed.” She should be grateful anyone is even thinking about her for her birthday.

[@trashqueen5865]

what is wrong with the people in these posts 😭😭😭 the 1st gf is abusive and the 2nd gf is just... shes the reason why posts like "hell is other people" exist 💀💀💀

[@megadude967]

Story 1 : Noah is a victim. He's in a relationship where he lives in constant fear that his girlfriend will leave him for someone she's in regular contact with. Also it was entirely possible that Noah, upon the insinuation that there is another man that his girlfriend is cozying up to, could've had a way worse reaction, possibly even violent. This isn't just harmful to Noah, but if she does this in future relationships it could be harmful to OP himself!

[@WadeAlma]

Noah isn’t a victim. He’s a willing participant. If the story is true that she did have a bad boyfriend and pretending to be pulled away by someone else makes him step up then it’s still his own fault. OP isn’t his friend. He also told him already what was going on. Do I agree with how she’s doing it? No. Because training someone to be a better boyfriend is scummy. You don’t view them as equal to you. Leave him and let him figure it out. She has tons of options. You’re all adults. Communicate. You can’t pull this crap for every disagreement. Noah only wants to spend time with her when she’s threatening to step out. Like a kid seeing someone e;she playing with his abandoned toy.

[@83gemm]

I am a very anxious person and a little tolerance to my triggers/ patience with my attacks is very appreciated. However, you can’t just live in that anxiety. It was only making it build up and making things worse. And once your anxiety starts affecting others, you’ve gone too far. For example, if I need to step outside and breathe mindfully for five minutes, that’s a fair ask. But if I’m wound up so tight that someone asking me a question makes me explode, then that’s on me. Needing a day or two to get things mentally under control was fine for the gf. But she wasn’t going that. She got locked in the anxiety spiral and I don’t doubt for a minute that it was next to impossible for her to open the gift. But something had to snap her out of it. Was opening it the best way to handle it? Who cares? Other people don’t have to be perfect just because one person is dealing with mental health issues. To go back to my previous example, if I blow up at someone for asking me a question while I’m in panic mode, the other person isn’t obligated to take it in stride.

[@meagancall5005]

Story 2: Sounds like a form of demand avoidance, which is associated with ASD or ADHD. I'm like this with books (and to some extent movies), where the second anyone gives even a mild recommendation, I am really averse to reading it. So that's a potential reason, but it still seems really rude in this instance. There's a point when you need to recognize that your anxiety is impacting your relationships. I think OP opening it was actually a reasonable solution, but he should have communicated that ahead of time rather than just doing it with no notice. AKA: "Hey, I can see you're having trouble with this. How about, if you're not ready to open it by this weekend, I'll open it so you don't have to worry about it." I think the real block here is that she's stressed out about having to *respond* to the gift, so I'm not sure it actually fixes the problem, but I guess it potentially moves it forward? If she's NOT ok with that solution, then I'd tell her she needs to address it directly with your parents because ignoring it is disrespectful.

[@LadyWolvie82]

1. If the name on the package was the SO and not that of the OP, he most likely committed a federal felony if this happened in the US (which sounds like the case as OP hinted at demographics by mentioning the Midwest). 2. With those who have varying types of anxiety, anyone they know need to have a REALLY good amount of patience in the affected situations. I don't think OP's parents are as aware of the SO as he claims, and it also doesn't sound like OP is as patient as he sees himself as. I also think that the bag will become a key catalyst for OP becoming single as I don't see the relationship lasting much longer. There's some degree of key incompatibility here that I don't think OP is even seeing. 3. The more pressure you place on someone to do ABC, the more likely they'll distance themselves *from* you. If they want to do something, it's because they *genuinely* want to do so, or it's court ordered. Peer pressure could make this MUCH worse. 4. The SO didn't use manners at first, which makes her TA, although her calling them on the phone is actually better than sending a text message, in my opinion. The best solution would have been the SO getting the bag herself, and I will applaud her for being cautious about the matter, because there have been instances where people will post *insert expensive item here* for sale online, and it turns out that the actual item wasn't what they saw online.

[@Lolieif]

It actually sounds in the update that the real block was that the GF had built up an expectation in her head of what the gift could be, and Schrödinger’s pursed herself into an anxiety spiral. I can very much understand where she’s coming from, but she _has_ to go to therapy, for herself and any future she might want. If disappointment over a birthday gift can paralyze her, and she’s making no effort to get better, she’s only going to get worse and worse.

[@jrod1591]

So in other words: exhausting to be with. Got it.

[@rhiannoncarney9380]

Last story: NTA, but I have a solution to op's predicament with his gf, she can just ask for cards or experiences as gifts; example: I asked a friend of mine for ganja and a professional pedicure for my birthday!!

[@haydennoble9253]

Story 1: OP CAN’T GO ALONG WITH A STORY THAT HE DOESN’T KNOW EXISTS.

[@theseeker9442]

"She told me I should have just backed up her story. I feel bad for Sophia" Absolutely not, she's actively lying to her partner and is dragging OP into it by including them in the lie. OP shouldn't feel bad at all for this situation Edit: "She thought she could make Noah jealous by talking to me" Sophia is a disgusting massive AH for using her partners insecurities and what is most likely a traumatic event against them, this is so unbelievably gross of her to do Edit 2: "I thought about it and agreed with her" oh so OP is a massive disgusting AH as well deciding that Sophie manipulating her BF into changing is completely fine and "hurts no one" because it very much hurts the BF by constantly having him anxious thinking his GF is gonna cheat on him and he's going to experience that pain again Regardless of what OP does going forward (though it seems he won't tell the BF) OP is a disgusting massive AH along with Sophia. I feel so absolutely bad for Noah

[@concrete-d5v]

Story 2 the gf sounds exhausting

[@252stardust]

S1: This is going to blow up in op's face and it'll be his own fault

[@sidepai]

Story 1: Yikes on a fracking bike. 'There are no victims'?? I beg to differ with Sophia. You're a real AH OP. She's a manipulative person and I honestly hope that the bf realizes and get away soon.

[@mikouf9691]

He doesn't want to insert himself? He let Sophie insert him by agreeing to cover for her lies and manipulation! He should have an in-person or phone conversation with the Evil Genius and record it and give the recording to the boyfriend.

[@IgrisBloodRed91]

Exactly this

[@jay2thaudy]

Story 2: ESH is bs. She's was being rude as hell to his parents.

[@ohboy-zi1yf]

and the proper reaction to that is have a discussion like adults in a relationship, which OP did not do

[@nonono3766]

Story 2: wow I'm exhausted just listening to this story. I would tell people to not give her gifts anymore since she doesn't want to communicate and get help for herself.

[@zookie3737]

story 1: sophia is crazy. if my fiance is playing video games with his friends, i'll be playing games with mine and doing something else. why must noah devote so much time to her every waking moment of the day? give the guy a break and let him spend time with his friends. smh.

[@BBYNANNA]

Story 2: The bf could have simply said the girl got her gift and she loved and let her open it on her own. When she did finally get around to it just send a thank you card addressed from her to his parents and told her no need to thank them i already had. It would be better than stepping in landmines and kept making the parents pursue her for their thank you

[@de9722]

LOL I remember when markee never had an opinion. I love the transition to I look down on you markee 😂 because HE BE RIGHT

[@CJanecalamity]

It's time to face the truth; OP's girlfriend's refusal to open the gift is a clear sign of disrespect. I'm surprised that some are avoiding the control issues at play here. Her behavior is unacceptable; she's causing unnecessary drama and embarrassment for her boyfriend. In my life, I don't tolerate such disrespect...

[@myrabeth77]

Exactly. She either needs serious and immediate therapy to deal with some underlying issues, or she's a rude a-hole who needs to be dumped. I don't see any other possibilities here. Her behavior is not acceptable, and very much looks intentional.

[@jrod1591]

For real. My parents did something really nice for you for getting a gift in the first place.. you have had your “private time,” to open it. You don’t. My parents are asking. It’s getting embarrassing. Then you come with, “the reason I didn’t open it was because I was worried I would be disappointed.” She should be lucky that she gets a gift anyway, no matter what it is.

[@Marchaland]

If Noah is not a good enough boyfriend for her, , Sophia should just leave him 🤡 instead of using tricks on him and involving other people, that's such a waste of time

[@ambriib]

I need to work on my patients because I straight-up would send the gift back to my parents or return it. She sounds exhausting, and I can't I just cant and unless she gets help she doesn't need any more gifts.

[@mrjohnthedestroyer]

OP was wrong in opening up her gifts. Not his gifts, not his job to open them. On the flip side if she can't handle opening up her gifts because of anxiety then she needs THERAPY STAT. It's extremely rude to not thank people for a gift no matter how much it costs

[@mayfields5092]

s2: try to loosen people up with a joke if they’re anxious about gifts (or anxious in general) something like “what’s the worry for its not like it’s from ted kaczynski”

[@loganjoh1]

Story 1: OP really heard that craziness from Sophia and was like “Yeah I’ll go along with this disgusting manipulation” what the hell? The fact he thought people would think he’s a good person for “helping” the manipulator says a lot about his character. If Noah isn’t a good boyfriend for her she can put her big girl pants on and either talk to him like an adult or just break up.

[@vick2255]

Golden rule for relationships: if things are not CRYSTAL clear, run. To manipulate the reality is an absurdly difficult thing to do, but words are made for it.

[@damien678]

Better to be a coward than to die on a high horse. I don't blame OP 1 for being scared of her.

[@janenorwood1614]

Story 2- he's not ready to see the signs blinded by his rose colored glasses. Oh well

[@cm4n63]

first OP is a doormat at BEST and I hope Noah drops them both

[@arielspurlin986]

Story 2 girlfriend sounds like such a miserable person to be around

[@poetryqn]

Story 1: I had to go back and read their ages since this sounded like middle school BS. NEARLY 30?? Oh, pulease! OP needs to grow a spine. Noah deserves the truth.

[@lc77713]

Story 2: Ahh yes the “our relationship is great so it can’t possibly be that it’s not” line. ESH.

[@sp0Oky2004]

The gift anxiety story reminds me of how I am with movies and shows that I know I'll love. I put them off from anxiety or fear of disappointment. I don't like the unknown. I also have very severe OCD.

[@xxKillgorxx]

How do you watch shows then, or do you just never watch anything because you might not like it? Legit question, just in case my writing comes off otherwise.

[@sp0Oky2004]

@xxKillgorxx Eventually I either get around to it myself (sometimes months or even years later) or someone else pushes me towards it.🫣 I'm FINALLY just watching The Boys and I love it!! Binged nearly the whole thing by now. Once I've started, I will commit all the way through. It's just the starting that's difficult. I hope that all makes sense, I'm not offended by questions. Unfortunately I have much bigger fish to fry with my anxiety and OCD, so I've never addressed this professionally. Edit: I do watch shows sometimes, just usually not the ones I'm genuinely pumped for hahaha. I stick to documentaries about random cults usually.

[@xxKillgorxx]

@sp0Oky2004 Wow, that sounds crazy to me lol. I'm someone who collects movies and TV shows. Usually if I see only 1 clip of it I like I immediately go out and buy it to watch and own. Never thought there'd be an anxiety behind watching it, but now I know.

[@sp0Oky2004]

@@xxKillgorxx sometimes I've had that too, like seeing a clip of Mia Wallace made me immediately watch Pulp Fiction. But I'm so anxious I don't often see clips either, I just totally avoid.🫠 I don't want spoilers, but then I don't watch. Doesn't make too much sense. Anyways, thanks for being respectful. It's cool when people just are curious and want to know, rather than just bash somebody.

[@LadyBern]

Story 1, i have to say I kinda get why he's just letting it go. She's manipulative, she manipulated him into having sympathy for her situation, she manipulated her way out to her lie she was caught in and he realizes that she can do much worse. If noah wants to be willfully in denial he doesn't see why he has to go out of his way to provide him with proof that Sofia might just manipulate him into disbelieving again. But honestly sofia could've actually cultivated a genuine friendship instead of using op. Oh well I'm impressed she trained 2 guys at once. I'd be scared of her too.

[@robinronin]

S1: If he was such a bad boyfriend and he didn’t want to change his behavior when she communicated her issues to him, she should have just broken up with him. This is waaay too much effort to put into fixing your partner’s behaviour, and it’s manipulative to boot. He’s not ready to trust and/or commit, so she needs to just let him go instead of engaging in behavior that treads into mental ab-se territory.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

S1: OP is an AH, alright. To himself. I've been around people like his friend and girlfriend. All they do is drag their personal drama onto your doorstep. No matter what you do in these situations, you're going to be the 'bad guy' to one or both of them, and probably to some of the extended friend group as well. The smartest thing he can do is walk away and wash his hands of both of these people. The only winning move is not to play.

[@sasoridanna9250]

Why doesn't OP just show Noah the Reddit post? Sure, it might feel grossly invasive, but seeing that OP posted about this situation and getting to read the comments might be eye opening to Noah on what type of person Sophie is.

[@lsilvaeditor]

Right?!

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

OP can make all the excuses he wants, doesn’t change that he and Sofia are terrible people. Their hearts weigh heavily against the feather and I hope they get their comeuppance, or at the very least Noah gets away from all of them.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍🏿

[@ondank]

Yeah nah I don't think thats an ESH with the handbag. If you can't receive gifts well then you should reject gifts.

[@TheRockinDonkey]

Why do people ask for advice then ignore it?

[@shadowkissed2370]

Story 1: his choice to sit back and let it happen because he is scared of what everyone will think is going to bite him in the arse. Sophia has already set it up to look like they were cheating together. When they break up it going to go around that they were sleeping together and he is the reason their relationship broke down. His female friend group is going to get the ick and stop talking with him.

[@jayneirajames792]

I don’t know people are blaming OP in the first story saying he’s an asshole, but if Noah already only believed Sophia after he originally came to OP, what’s gonna make him believe OP if he told him that Sophia is manipulating him, all she has to do is spin it again and be like OP is trying to break us up because he wants to be with me

[@thatonearoace]

Why not try bringing it up over text? That could give OP the proof needed instead of just being complacent in this Story 2: You can’t avoid anything forever, she had to either open it or have someone else open it eventually and clearly she was going to try and avoid making a decision on how to stop avoiding another

[@chickensandwich8808]

So, this is also one of the things that got me about Story 1. She wanted to meet OP in person rather than over text. Which is generally fair. But with what OP claims she stated about the situation, I can't help but feel that the choice to explain in person was a deliberate attempt to avoid documentation of her pathology. She is legitimately scary. I would not be surprised if she is sociopathic or psychopathic to some degree.

[@thatonearoace]

@@chickensandwich8808 She definitely has issues, though I just wonder if it would be possible to get anything that wouldn’t prove what she’s doing on its own, but would back up OP’s claims at least a bit

[@damien678]

​@@chickensandwich8808 Yeah, she'd see through him asking about this over text as trying to get evidence and might even plan on how to take OP down if he doesn't go along with her.

[@madcatlady]

friendships can be skewed, as a kid and teen I thought I had best friends only to learn it was onesided

[@ladyv5655]

Sophia either wants to get with OP or is using him to keep Noah insecure in the relationship.

[@aromyrr]

That, or she's going on a power trip of controlling two men because she's now essentially blackmailing one (somehow) and brainwashing the other. OP's is gonna Pikachu face when Sophia takes this to the whole friend group and paints OP like the homewreaker/girl-chaser he inadvertently agreed to fake as. :/

[@carlrood4457]

You can lay out all the "What if's?" you want, but when it comes down to it, all others see is your actions and behavior. When behavior goes way outside social norms, it's not on others to adapt to you. Even the people who care about you will eventually start losing patience.

[@michamocha]

S1: How are there no victims when Sophia is actively manipulating her boyfriend instead of just communicating her worries???? Op is an idiot and will be burned in the long run. If she was so willing to do this, who's to say she won't continue using Op every time she finds something dissatisfying in her relationship? Lmao, he's a doofus. Last: I'm in the same boat as the last comments. Everyone was being too hard on Op when in this case, opening the gift seemed to be the more helpful route rather than letting her fall in a cycle of anxiety. The lack of communication was on the girlfriend's end, especially when it sounded like they already had a system in place so she would feel comfortable opening gifts. She's not an a-hole though, just wrong for failing to communicate and leaving everyone in limbo. I'm sure had she told Op the true issue, this would've easily been cleared up since he knew what the gift was.

[@Waapitii]

OP in first story is morally bankrupt

[@meagancall5005]

Story 1: I think commenters are putting a little too much responsibility on OP, and emphasizing the wrong thing. He does not need to go chasing Noah to tell him the truth... again. He needs to block that toxic mess of a woman and wash his hands of the whole thing. Do NOT attend social events where she'll be present. The biggest ick I get about the whole thing isn't how he's failing *NOAH*, it's how he's failing himself by allowing her to use him as a boogie man in her relationship. That's so damn creepy. She even made it clear she wants to keep him in her back pocket as a threat in the future. He already *told* Noah what their relationship is. Let Sophia do backflips to explain why her "bestie" won't even talk to her anymore.

[@lianabaddley8217]

I was wondering if OP even has Noah's phone# or email? Or even knows where he lives? Maybe if there is another party soon, where OP sees Noah, he could then talk to him, but if he has no way to reach him, going NC with her is best for both. He should talk to the friend group so they know who she really is, though.

[@lunarheartz2133]

S2: Maybe it’s just me but what is with the ableism towards the GF, as an autistic person I can relate towards the mindset she had, if people are saying she’s showing signs on neurodivergence quite heavily you don’t need an outdated test and paper to confirm it’s most likely neurodivergence. NAH This could’ve been solved by them communicating, no one is selfish or entitled. Truthfully he shouldn’t have opened it, the issue isn’t whether she’s an AH towards the parents it’s whether he is for opening said gift. A lot of people are reading into things and really jumping to conclusions. People do not realize how hard it is to get a diagnosis (as someone diagnosed myself) even when you very clearly have neurodivergence specially for women. People are allowed to want to wait and affirm their feelings before moving forwards. GF needs to get therapy to help with her anxieties.

[@Lolieif]

It’s not just a diagnosis she’s not seeking out, it’s also just… help for her clearly debilitating symptoms. Even if she isn’t diagnosed with ocd, anxiety or autism, she should be working with a professional to develop healthier coping mechanisms than avoidance, to make help minimize the hurt she and her loved ones feel. And I don’t mean masking or anything-as a neurodivergent person myself, I recognize that the majority of the world is not built for our brain types, and the disconnect between the majority and us often causes pain and distress that then can be reflected back onto our loved ones as well. While it’s shitty that we always have to be the ones to learn how to endure and manage our reactions/pain from that mismatch, when the choice is that or ‘live in debilitating distress and pain’, it’s clear what the best option is. Now is this easy and always accessible? No. But in this story, the GF has the resources and support to do so, so it’s irresponsible for her not to. Also, in the story the OP talks about how he did try to communicate with her. How do you suggest he have done that that wouldn’t have just made her more avoidant? That being said, a lot of comments on that story do not have any level of nuance or empathy to them, I agree.

[@mune_mune]

Story1, it's a very "Not my circus" kind of situation, it's easy to throw OP as the AH just because we're not in his shoes. He should still just cover his tracts and tell the rest of the friendgroup incase it ever goes south.

[@IgrisBloodRed91]

Why not send the post to his friends and the bf tho?

[@ivanadragmire2873]

exactly, i don't understand what everyone is expecting the OP to do. people need to accept that sometimes shit doesn't work out like in the movies.

[@chickensandwich8808]

​@ivanadragmire2873 Because he is enabling literal abusive behavior. It's really nkt hard to be a good person in this instance. Hell OP could even reach out to other friends first, and if they toss him aside, good riddance. I get the idea that we aren't in his shoes and if this were something more mundane than pathological mental/emotional abuse? Sure stay out of it. But it crossed that threshold.

[@ToxicSunrise132]

Story 1: This is one of the decisions that defines who you are as a person. I hope OP can live with what this says about him

[@Aziza_Nyxie_Jynx_Ashling]

There is a saying “evil triumphs when a few good men do nothing” poor Noah

[@hexgirl29]

This is the best reddit channel 😂 i love your commentary

[@LadyCeag840]

Story 1: I really hope someone can find Noah and forward this entire post to him. I feel for the poor guy…

[@loganjoh1]

Story 2: while yes the GF kinda sounds exhausting considering all she had to do was open the gift and send a quick thank you text OP shouldn’t have opened it. That fist commenter also seemed to be projecting really hard.

[@ohboy-zi1yf]

that first commenter needs to touch grass fr

[@chasefrost1401]

The Markee in the beginning of this saga is the one that hunts you for your pineal gland.

[@swisstroll3]

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive. Sofia needs to discover that it is hard enough to remember the truth, much less a lie for every relationship! Concentrate on remembering brothers, sisters, and pet names. I’m too lazy to remember lies.

[@morganleanderblake678]

it's wild to me that you can see a person with a clearly pathological limitation around something like a gift but then expect them to be a properly self aware communicator who can tell you why. like... if they had the capacity for those things maybe they wouldn't be pathologically avoiding stuff and failing to connect with people they love?

[@helianabanes4875]

I have OCD, and I don't make EVERYONE else feel incredibly uncomfortable, just so I feel more comfortable.

[@chickensandwich8808]

I don't know about OCD but I myself am ASD. I have unintentionally shown disappointment from gifts when younger, and it unintentionally hurt those giving the gift. I was thankful for being thought of, and the gifts themselves were not bad, and I did appreciate them. But my mind would go into possibilities, and I would get my hopes up. I did have to learn to curb that, so it's by no means anyone else's fault, but if the GF is having anxiety because of the fear of reacting a certain way, when other reactions are expected I can understand the fear of opening it. In reality, she may actually have liked the gift anyway but had gotten it in her head it was the bag and then unintentionally shown dissapointment it wasn't the bag, nut internally was still very happy with the gift. This can be taken VERY badly by other people and can lead to an anxiety spiral. She shouldn't put off a diagnosis, however... ND diagnosis is a long and expensive process, so I don't blame her if that's the case. But if it's fear of being labeled ND, that's a different can of worms. Being ND doesn't Gove someone a pass to be a jerk, but it does offer a different pathway of understanding a person's behaviors. For ASD people it can be hard trying to communicate our feelings and intentions. We don't know if she is, but I am just putting this out there in the off chance that she is ND. Either way, she does need to figure out how to compromise and process these issues to get to a healthy place.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

Story 1 reminds me of the 1962 film “If a Man Answers”… expect for it being real instead of a fun and hyperbolic satire about communication in relationships.

[@icewolvz6977]

i think this is the earliest I've ever been

[@darklightmagus1222]

Story 1: There was a way to manipulate the situation so that OP could be believed. Tell Noah the truth about Sophia. Then OP could tell Noah that he will be sending a message to Sophia that he will be telling Noah everything (no specifics) and not that they actually already told Noah anything. Also that because of the situation, OP will be blocking Sophia from everything after sending the message. Sophia will go to Noah to do premeditated damage control in desperation. It is up to Noah at that point to unravel who to believe based on Sophia's behavior and story weaving capability.

[@BisexualBeauty]

Story 2...is lame..shes rude...you give a gift and then waiting what if she didnt like it so they can Exchange or return...return it and dump her...i also dont liie opening stuff in front of people im not close to but i suck it up and do it...she sounds like a drama queen.

[@James-sq4sc]

Story 2: I’d just stop encouraging people to gift your gf. Her behavior is rude and sounds like she needs therapy

[@mbyerly9680]

In the first story, I guess OP could talk to the gossip of their group and ask for "advice" on the situation. The coward may escape the fallout or have plausible deniability.

[@jrod1591]

Story 2: She was anxious to open it because she would have been disappointed if it wasn’t the bag… that’s not just weird of her but also very selfish. People should never be “disappointed,” in a heartfelt gift, regardless of what it is. When I was a kid I was so selfish in being disappointed in getting clothes. Now I’m elated if I even get a gift because I’m a 33 year old man, and generally we don’t even get gifts anymore. She needs serious help and I’m curious to what other ticks she has if this is one of them.

[@aromyrr]

Story 1: How does he describe OP manipulating her BF in clear steps and then not understand how her behind-the-scenes scheming, that she could literally turn these lies that she's told Noah and spread it to the friend group and easily and effectively spread a lie that OP was some kind of abuser or harasser that "chased after her while in a relationship" because she's actively painting OP as a homewrecker-in-the-making and he decided "yeah sure I'll say I was doing all these things with you. Surely, this won't backfire on me because of my past "confession," because when he's ready to tell the truth (again)- girl will have spread the lies beyond the original three and how is he going to insist he isn't lying this time? Just... wow...

[@caridadchang7895]

I don't think Op is a coward for not telling the guy that his gf is manipulating him, I think she believes that abuse works and thus she is planing to do the same in her next relationship. Maybe they *are* becoming best friends after all since they are cut from the same cloth.

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1: Nah fam. "She brought up dating and I told her why I wouldn't date her" tells me you knew she was a walking red flag. Now she's lying, either trying to make him jealous or cover up where she really is, all while gaslighting him that she won't let HIM control HER? She's a half bubble off plum, and deserves to have her relationship in flames. I hope he runs fast and far. Yikes. She's not just a walking red flag, she's a marinara parade. And OP is a bad friend (to Noah). S2: NTA. At this point, she is being rude. Your parents aren't staring at her. This is a good way to ensure she never receives another gift. First commenter nailed it.

[@helianabanes4875]

I have to say, I understand OP's hesitance to talk to Noah about this. I might wait, and try to get evidence, and then tell him, but people are really missing the fact that OP is also a victim of Sofia. They didn't hatch this plan together, he got thrown in between a rock, and a hard place. He is absolutely not a monster, maybe a bit cowardly, but he is right. Noah is not going to believe him, and he will come out looking like some manipulative creep who is desperate for Sofia's love, and trying to break them up. I am thinking I might try to get proof for a bit, and then if I was unsuccessful, distance myself from her as much as possible.

[@OpticalArxenal]

Getting a diagnosis is, imo good, then you know what you're working with and can support good parts and damage control the bad. CBT is VERY contested, and I'm personally not in support of it due to the risk it presents when it's at the hands of a bad therapist, and I've heard a fair few therapists say they also don't support/won't do it with clients.

[@sophdog2564]

I actually agree with OP on story 1 about not directly telling Noah. He shouldn't do nothing, but I think he's right that Noah won't get the correct interpretation if he contacts Noah directly. I think he should text Sophia that he is not interested in being a pawn of her manipulation of her boyfriend and that he will be blocking her (since Noah reads the texts). Then actually block her and stop interacting at group social gatherings, make it clear she is not welcome at his apartment, etc. I also think he should confide in one or more of the other girls in the group about the situation, including the mutual friend who introduced them. That way the information sorta gets around and may end up either getting directly to Noah through one of the girl friends, or help him eventually if Sophia eventually accused op of the "best friend pining for his female bestie" thing that people were saying. If she pulls that and the friend group already knows the situation, and they turn against Sophia, then it might break the spell she has on Noah. Ideally, the girl gets expelled from the group because the other people are troubled by her behavior too. If the one commenting about how it was psychological abuse is correct, then telling him directly is probably the worst option. Abusive relationships are difficult for the victim to detect, especially in this case, and it's not unusual for victims to defend their abusers when people try to help them, especially when it's not blatantly clear.

[@EnDB]

OP told him the truth when asked. He chose to ignore what he told him.

[@ratoim]

A day will come when Sophie needs a fall guy for something. OP's passivity (NPC, really?) and willingness to go along with her schemes will make him the perfect candidate.

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

Story 1. NTA, all OP did was tell the truth about his and Sophia's friendship. Also, does Sophia not understand the meaning of communication? She also is quite a manipulative person and Noah needs to run, and fast.

[@carlrood4457]

In other words, she's isolating Noah from his friends.

[@bluemacaw1473]

Op that refused to open the present sounds like a pleasure delayer - somebody who knows something good is coming, and they drag it out to prolong the anticipation of something good is yet to come.