Gold Smelting

[@ericmcc75]

I think a time-lapse video of the matte converting to powder would be very interesting to watch.

[@Bob-Whiting]

Ditto!

[@robertbrewer2190]

taking the mass of the freshly broken material and comparing to mass of the converted powder would be interesting too!

[@andyanderson2143]

My sugestion exactly! I think the powdering phenomenon is a combination of two things, the first of which being all off the stress of thermal shrinkage layering from the outside in as the glass cools, making the inside want to shrink but the ourside is already rigid. Imagine the dust a Prince Rupert's drop explodes into. The second contribution to the phenomena being something like oxidation, where as the really thin layers of the slag oxidize, the stress is relieved and the layer falls away from the outside in revealing the next, and so forth. There may even be a third, or more, stage in there somewhere. What a fascinating thing, a solid powdering itself! I can imagine a few applications for the phenomena, if the variables of making it can be controlled.

[@jamisondonald384]

This, please!

[@christianmittasch8972]

That's a super cool idea!

[@leeroychang]

I'm so invested in you, Jason! We're worlds apart in location and careers but, oh boy, do I love watching your videos! Great as always!

[@zanderboy]

agreed, i work in IT in the UK but this channel is incredible

[@leeroychang]

@@zanderboy I'm UK and in healthcare. I can't get enough of it!

[@Stand.Your.Ground.]

He’s just north of me we are in a gold rich area. Jason is very interesting and knowledgeable

[@cynicalbuddha]

I think the opening of your gold mine videos were my favorite last year. Can't wait till the snows gone and you can get back in there. You left us on such a cliff hanger with your second blast.

[@billyingram8347]

Sulphur (s2) has a reduction potential of -0.407, which goes more negative with decreased ph up to -3.1 with two free electrons, you need twice the oxidiser with oxidation potential >+407 to make oxidation of S2 the primary reaction, per atom of Sulfur. Most are explosive at assay temperatures. Interestingly iron reduces the Sulfur with its superior -0.7 and balanced two electron transfer forming FeS. I believe your artificially creating a VMS type geology making matte, and like VMS exposures it rapidly hydrates, but the chemistry does not leap into sulfide secondary and tertiary oxidation (h2s03, h2s04, h2s203+ etc) probably requires UV / ozone for that, thus your conundrum🎉love your videos, billy

[@Indi0Indi]

This makes a lot of sense. I’m in a tropical humid climate and i get the same thing. I’m going to test a few acid digests on my Matt to see what i can find out and report back :)

[@traveller9292]

I copied this post into my translate to English app, came back exactly the same 🤣

[@frankenscience3553]

solution?

[@billyingram8347]

@@frankenscience3553 there is no problem, Jason’s all over it, adding metallic iron reduces, S2/Sx repeating lattice to FeS & adding sodium carbonate to adsorb pesky FeS into slag layer, locking up sulphur from interfering with precious metal recovery. In this example he deliberately omitted this part to observe matte formation ie sus the sulfide content, likely assess how many nails he needs for a bigger smelt & qty of NaCO3 req, he even states so omitting the sodium carbonate which would mask the total matte formation, he is ‘free forming’ it to find the right mix for that ore rather than following a fixed ratio solution and failing (having a partial matte layer still)

[@Rajkumar-xc5ti]

which these three chemical Powder Name????

[@ChrisRalph]

I've had smelts do the same - I think its a hydration thing as here in dry Nevada it takes 2-3 weeks to do the same. I'm guessing that its the free sulfur that is hydrating - pyrite has more sulfur than 1 to 1 ratio (which is what would chemically go with iron). I have not done any testing, but I am guessing that it is that excess sulfur that is reacting with moisture and oxygen in the air.

[@billstiles5492]

Those are my concentrates from our mine in Montana, I'm having the same issues. I think i'll try heating the matte residue for a couple hours in an oven at 300 degrees or so to see if that drives off some of the moisture, if that's what is is.

[@Jatslo]

In theory, you can develop a system similar to a retort for collecting sulfur and other gases produced during the roasting process. A retort is a closed vessel used for heating substances at high temperatures, with the aim of collecting volatile components produced as byproducts. In your case, instead of mercury vapor (although there may be some), the system would capture sulfur dioxide and other gases generated during the roasting of sulfide ores. This can be achieved by designing a closed system where the sulfide ore mixture is heated in the presence of excess iron(III) oxide (3:1 ratio) to provide the necessary oxygen for oxidation reactions. The gases produced during roasting, including sulfur dioxide, can then be directed to a collection chamber or system equipped with gas collection mechanisms. The collected gases can undergo further treatment, such as scrubbing with alkaline solutions (Sodium Hydroxide), to remove impurities and recover valuable components. Additionally, by controlling the atmosphere within the retort-like system, you can minimize environmental emissions and ensure the safe handling and disposal of byproducts. This approach offers a sustainable method for metal extraction from sulfide ores, allowing for the recovery of valuable metals while mitigating environmental impacts associated with traditional smelting processes. However, careful design and implementation are necessary to optimize the system for efficiency, safety, and environmental compliance. The main talking point that prompted us is the fact that an iron(III) oxide (3:1 ratio with sulfides) will oxidize the ore without the need for an atmosphere, or nitrates that should be used sparingly. I see you add iron in some of your smelts, but it is likely better to add the iron(III) oxide from the get go. There are more ways, but we'll just leave it at that.

[@mikeblair2594]

That went way better than I thought. I didn't expect a half gram, Plus anything possibly in the matte. I'm impressed

[@menow7851]

Look..we got some gold. Love everytime you say it. Keep searching for AU. Thanks for bringing us along.

[@davidoconn9352]

Thank you Jason. I enjoy your channel we appreciate the hard work you do for our benefit..

[@allancolley6306]

I’m excited about the future videos!

[@123Goldhunter11]

Good stuff per usual. I have a friend with a mine in Eastern Washington who told me years ago that his iron pyrite assayed out to 3 ounces/ton.

[@rockman531]

Hey Jason, Great video! Some gold is better than no gold! Looking forward to part 2 - get rid of the rest of the matte. Thumbs up! Stay safe! Jim

[@chuckerickson6721]

Thanks Jason you always make my morning coffee richer. Time to check out your store.

[@DJ-bh1ju]

I'm relieved that you addressed that you haven't process the bags from your mine... Thought I'd missed something....

[@danlindey7368]

This is so interesting. I love your enthusiasm and passion in what you do. Waiting on some serious gold mining. I hope you make a million dollars but I don't want it to change you're video style.

[@ExtractingMetals]

I did some research on this and have an answer. When sulfides are exposed to the atmosphere they can become hydrated. The combination of the water and sulfides in the atmosphere will cause the water to become sulfuric acid when exposed to UV light (ie sunlight). This acid then breaks down the structure of the slag which is why it falls apart. So it is really just a cool set of chemical reactions going on here. Let me know if this makes sense.

[@wertza720]

wow can you make timelapse of that 5:45 transition

[@Khiêm-phát-968]

Jason cám ơn ngài video của ngài giúp cho tôi nhiều kiến thức, jason ngài có thể cho tôi biết tên của loại bột trắng đó không

[@whgordon6109]

Great Video Again Jason! Always looking forward to the next one!!! Love the Vids with the Jolly Red Elf... (Dan Hurd)

[@Bob-Whiting]

Oh Yeah!

[@ffsteve71]

That was another awesome video Jason. I like that you experiment. And the quality of your videos are great too! That little button looks huge on the big screen!! Gotta get me some swag too.

[@tmophoto]

wow you should timelapse that decomposition. that is pretty cool

[@lp8650]

why are you never using nitric acid instead of smelting?

[@lp8650]

if we lived a little close we could probably help each other quite a lot

[@markfudger5267]

Yes, your problem is that the gold is bonding to the thiosulfate ions. Thiosulfate leaching of gold ore is sometimes used when the ore contains copper, which acts as a catalyst for the leaching process. You just need to break the S2 bonds first before anything else. Haven't you tried roasting the concentrate in air first?

[@Stevesbe]

When will the mine thaw out?

[@rikspector]

Jason, I'm seeing you succeed in getting the right combination, and then, boy is that mine ore going to be awesome. We'll be calling you Mr. Midas:) Cheers, Rik Spector

[@christcommanded7097]

I wish you would do a show on the type of masks that are needed the type of respirators that you use that you find the most safe and where to get them.

[@donaldtayloe4406]

That sounds like a liability trap

[@theminerstable4790]

I'm thinking this comment is intended as parody. Lol.

[@ronaldariaaria1781]

Wish youd explain the terms used in dudcription . What materials are you working with ? You tittle says gold smelting . Never heard a word abiut good in the video . N

[@LoveShaysloco]

Don't know how I missed this video. But when you said iron piright. Question since it's iron can a you use a magnet to get rid of more stuff without damaging the mix ratio

[@askquestionstrythings]

I have to wonder if adding a button of collector metal at the bottom would be a benefit, basically a starting pool to help draw all of the collector metal "rain" to coalesce at the bottom.

[@masamunesword]

Really interesting experiment and I'd love to see some follow-up.

[@charliespeegleokliving8595]

More experiments! Place the black matte into small sealed containers. One should be full with little air space and just place a chunk into another. Maybe repeat with unsealed containers with a very small opening.

[@butziporsche8646]

Yeah Jason, a little Sreetips action with some aqua regia?

[@HavocStylesJoe]

It would be interesting if you sent some of the black powder to Sreetips KZbin, and how much the difference in yield would be in the refining process of Aqua Regia Process VS Cupellation.

[@carroll-w7wxv]

Thanks Jason, I am looking forward to your next video!

[@mikeconnery4652]

Another excellent video

[@MB-bt9km]

He mentioned the gold mine cons! WHAT A TEASE!!!!

[@clintongriffin2077]

Because it has iron in it could you use a magnet to remove the iron? Then you could test gold on each side removing a chunk of your issue potentially

[@dalejross548]

I was wondering what if you put a magnet in your shaker table FARIS / NON FARIS and what do you do with the slag?

[@ramblin_wreck]

Great vlog, thanks! Love all your videos except for the shorts!

[@Bob-Whiting]

100% Wreck! Shorts Stink. lol

[@curious736]

Metallurgical chemistry is fascinating.

[@Gary-li2px]

While not feasible for production would roasting the sulfides first work for the purpose of an analytical assay?

[@SiiuuuuCR-7]

Very useful information for everyone

[@GSProspecting]

Great job all around fam. Keep on having fun getting that Au and living the dream. Gold Squad Out 🤠

[@Twokeeshonds]

Love the video Jason. Keep up the good fight my friend.

[@mrgreenswelding2853]

How do I get all the collector metal to the bottom? Mine seems to get stuck in the flux

[@Malithion2001]

Reminds me of the stuff they put in the "do not eat" packets that absorb water and oxygen. ferrous oxide?

[@george2113]

Would mixing the charges for the crucible so the crucible doesn't cool off increase the efficiency of the smelt?

[@michschep7601]

I was taught to heat just the sulfides up to red hot and hold temp, breaks down sulfides and drives off the sulfur then dump in cold water to process left over gold..... thennit can be smelted

[@BoostedMike2]

to separate the mat layer could you not make a spinning mould to work like a centrifuge that would seem the simplest way to me

[@ericfallis6202]

Question what would one of those laser guns for rust removal do to those sulfides

[@billstiles5492]

The concentrates Jason is using here are from our mine in Montana that I gave him a couple of weeks ago. They are concentrates from our shaker table bought from him years ago. I am having the same issues in smelting these concentrates as demonstrated in the video. I am using his soda ash heavy flux with a collector metal but only recovering about 60% of the collector and some matte. If I'd get all of the collector back it would average out to about 1+grams of gold per 100 grams of concentrate.

[@jonathancardy9941]

I would be curious to see what happened if you used a magnet to split the black powder into ferrous and non ferrous. Is that powder fine enough to free the gold, or could it be ground fine enough?

[@JamesJohnson-nu2km]

The chemical reaction of the heat is awesome, the colors

[@loberd09]

I’m wondering if it’s a crystal phase change. I’ll have to look into it if I have time. Basically interconverting from different crystal structures can cause big volume change

[@tombor1759]

Silly question time... How many times can one use a coupelle before it becomes unusable?

[@RCPILOT-i5j]

Hey Jason, great channel it's very interesting to watch. Have you ever considered experimenting on your MAT byproducts with chemical precipitation. It might give you a general idea of the AU content that could be locked up in it ? Would be a good experiment to watch to.

[@danblankenship5744]

You could add a measured portion of gold to the mixture to see how much you get back at each stage. Will it follow the same percentages as the bismuth?

[@george2113]

What is the white flexible insulation?

[@edwardtk1210]

Have you ever tried to add lead and Capel off the sulphides

[@Greggy0]

Can't wait for your mine ore video

[@bigizzysworld4253]

What happened to the gold mine behind the waterfall?

[@Chromevulcan]

Do it again, but bake the powderized portion to drive off any moisture before smelting. I don't know what it'll do, but I'm curious.

[@jessevennard2640]

Not a metallurgist but I believe sulphides are eager to oxidize so I’m guessing the sulphides have oxidized which is why they gained mass.

[@EastBayFlipper]

I think the material is hygroscopic and the environment provides the humidity over a couple of days with a sulphuric acid formation to powder everything 🤔

[@nunyabisnass1141]

​@@EastBayFlipperi thought of that once, but if he's using an excess of basic ph flux, it be oxides and hydroxides. I don't actually know because I watch chemistry videos, and do very little chemistry myself.

[@jessevennard2640]

Could be both

[@SMoore-js6fy]

The solids: slag and matt turning to powder over night ? That tells you that the by-product is unstable in an oxygen environment? Burn the sulfur off prior to smelt? Add salt to your first mix?

[@brianleduc2244]

It be interesting to collect the black mat and try it all over again to see if you have more gold, could the gold have all dropped down under the mat and it has no more gold in it got me woundering

[@Warrentheo]

I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but won't acids and bases have a bigger preference for each other than what you were talking about?

[@miketheminer2023]

Is the powder a graphite stage of smelt

[@CFullm]

Quiet on the set chicken! 🤣😂 Great video as usual Jason, very interesting stuff

[@nunyabisnass1141]

The last time you mentioned this affect, was rhinking rhat if its ph basic slag, its likely absorbing water and becoming a hydrate. However, there's a few things to consider, if the slag/flux mix is basic, and you're smelting sulfudes, sulfudes tend to be acidic so there is an acid and base reaction, giving off water and forming oxides. If you are using an excess of basic flux, you are probably left with mostly oxides and hydroxides which the hydroxides tend to be hydroscopic. Simce they are contaminated with a bunch of fine oxide grains, that is probably why it turns into a powder rather than a damp salt.

[@NorCalNeel]

Have you ever heard of using Portland cement in your mix?

[@07headshot]

Hi Jason, have watched so many of your vids, thoroughly enjoy everyone. Are the cuppell's a once use only item?

[@sixfigureskibum]

Jeff Williams just did a video on smelting sulphides. I was paying semi close attention because lots of gold bearing pyrytes here in Salt lake area. I did not note the chemistry he used so much as he was promoting a premixed Flux that allowed him to run the gold once in furnace to a gold bead. ...oh yeah. He roasted ore before the smelt as well . Hope this helps! I just got my electrolytic silver cell up refining a few pounds and I have my 1st oz gold at 998 going to 999 on next aurachloric I'll use Copperas. I used msb the 1st round. Offering custom silver refining.. but I'm not set up to smelt yet

[@josephcormier5974]

Outstanding video sir thank you for sharing this with us six stars brother

[@ColoradoLivingTheDream]

Hi Jason, Great video. I’m going to be facing a similar issue soon where I will be smelting down iron pyrite, chalcopyrite and galena/sphalerite. Why no iron? In previous videos you had mentioned that the saturating the charge with iron helps break down the sulfides and makes the FeS get adsorbed by the slag…

[@johannesdesloper8434]

fine crystal structure through rapid cooling?

[@yoyoyohihihidude]

Micro cracks everywhere and the moisture pops all the cracks?

[@DonariaRegia]

Now that your mine is producing, it might be a good idea to look into manufacturing your own acids to dissolve impurities. Sulfuric acid is relatively easy, with tutorials you can watch on this site to learn the process. I'm curious how effective roasting, grinding, then gravity separating would be to remove sulfides.

[@kartintoftalid124]

Can u use it like in coler in glaS vindue

[@askquestionstrythings]

What about roasting the sulfides to oxides before trying to smelt them? Would that improve the recovery?

[@alliep7288]

What about Calavertie? And smelting the Gold and tellurium out of it? What’s the easiest way to process?

[@j.lietka9406]

Is a coal fired foundry better than the propane fired one?

[@arte9855]

If you drop the cone pour in 5 gallon bucket of water to cool quickly would the metal separate from the slag? Caution, shattered slag may be an issue...

[@Indi0Indi]

This happens to me too!!! I’m in a very humid climate and i only takes a couple of hours or by next day

[@xavermaier9625]

So the sulfite is kind of an glassy material, maybe there is some sort of internal stress thats turning it into powder when they release??? I really don't know

[@svenp6504]

I think you are right... your flux is highly hygroscopic. The soda ash supposedly decomposes to sodium oxide at these temps, and it absorbs a lot of water from the air afterward. So basically you end up with finely divided sulfides in hydrated flux. I'm curious if roasting in the air might be quickly effective at oxidizing those sulfides since they're so finely divided. Or if firing it again with sodium nitrate would also oxidize it well... it melts at ~300C or so and the fine sulfides should react quickly IMHO, lots of surface area.

[@Rajkumar-xc5ti]

which three chemical Powder names plz mention???

[@Alondro77]

The super-heated sulfides, once crushed, probably are far more reactive in air than the original natural minerals. The matte layer itself is no longer the original sulfides, and it'd be interesting to find out what mineral it becomes after that first smelt.

[@lawrencemonroe4168]

Do your usual smelt. Turn the forge off dump some zinc into it carefully as zinc when overheated can turn gaseous in an explosive manner. you'll get zinc sulfide, iron powder. (Salvage it from cheap screen door handles:) Personally, I would sieve it after it self granulizes and put it through floatation or the shaker table.

[@Bob-Whiting]

But you left out what the result is. What is the result?

[@lawrencemonroe4168]

@@Bob-Whiting the gold should be released from the sulfide matrix by using the reactive metals series.

[@ElementofKindness]

While watching this, I'm in the middle of a cupelling run from one of Jason's 25 pound bags of "run of the mine" ore. 😁 I don't expect there will be any gold though. I saw absolutely no signs during panning. Lots of sulfides and magnetite. 55% loss in concentrates/collector metal, post smelt, also leading me to believe nothing will be recovered. If nothing else, I got really, really good at panning even the finest sulfides out of pulverized ore.

[@ElementofKindness]

Update: cupelling complete, and surprised to see gold. How much? A bead measuring 0.090" and weighs in at 0.095 grams! 😂

[@StephanBaker-c3x]

Hey Jason, do you remove magnetics from your concentrates before smelting?

[@askquestionstrythings]

You should timelapse the sulfide matte breaking down into that black powder

[@vahagnmelikyan2906]

I'm watching your videos with more intusiasm after realizing how hard it is to get everything right when smelting. So your heating temperature is way higher than mine. Mine shows 850-950 celcius (1750 fahrenheit). Wonder why it won't fuse all the way.

[@danc843]

is it pulling carbon out of the air?

[@karolaschmidt3864]

Copper and silver ore (which often also contain a lot of sulfides) were roasted on open fires before further processing to oxidize sulfides. Would this be a way to go for you?

[@joesutherland225]

Silver chloride? Or sulphide both turn black on exposure to light .just a guess

[@B0BBYL33J0RD4N]

Awesome video, always good to see you doing well. What I would look into would be finding out if the hydrated or non-hydrated sulfides are soluable in something easy to access. If you get 10 lbs of matte layer, and can get it to break apart into something you can deal with (maybe some acid can drive the sulfer out and make it into a different, more smelt happy mineral). I see you always trying to reduce steps by changing smelt ratios, which is fair. If you can do a step in smelt to reduce the matte layer by half, then you have more theoretical recovery with fewer steps, but you might add a whole recovery phase, where you take your matte layer once it breaks up, and just pour it into a bucket or something. As a non-chemist, could even make it into an experiment. Try both hydrated and non hydrated in different things. (This bucket was hydrated and then soaked for 1 week in draino, this one was unhydrated, and dropped into a bucket of root killer solution for a week, etc) The hard part would be to calculate actual helpfulness. Either a measure of remaining problem layer after a smelt. Or if you get a large enough base sample, you could test recovery, cause if it doubles the matte layer, but that matte layer holds no gold, that is better than a 50% reduction in matte layer holding the same amount of gold. Issue is that you would have to run each test dozens of times to account for differences in each charge of gold per sulfide test assessed. Cause you might just have more natural gold in the draino test vs the root killer test, and you would not know. Goal would be to get your collector metal, matte layer, and glass layer, and then to be able to passively refine that matte layer.

[@dogprowilhelm7630]

Xrf your slag, matte and find out before and after the night or day it sits and see what you detect. Nice recovery of gold and hope it helps.

[@1944chevytruck]

good job!

[@paulreiche]

Jason, I love your matter-of-fact science! I am playing with 25lbs of your ore, and I was wondering if pulling the iron-bearing particles out with a magnet is an efficient way to separate the sulfides?

[@jefferywilson4091]

I'm so ready for you to start processing the ore from your mine