We Unpack Girl Defined's Emotional Immaturity w/ Fundie Fridays!

[@FlinchFox]

As an atheist, I don’t hate god. I hate when god is weaponised to harm people who don’t know better. God was used to harm me. It’s not normal and I’m sick of people getting away with it because it’s “god’s will”

[@LadyGreyAgeingDisGracefully]

God is often used as the excuse/reason for poor behaviour and treatment of others. I wonder if there is research informing us if abuse has a higher incidence in religious couples?

[@FlinchFox]

@@LadyGreyAgeingDisGracefully I’ll be the first one to do it. It’s...a problem

[@cocoabeanzwantstopuzzle]

as an atheist, i'm just like "how does one hate something that doesn't even exist"

[@Rawnblade13]

@@cocoabeanzwantstopuzzle Think of it as hating a fictional character. I mean hell, God is a mass murdering abusive psychopath in the Bible.

[@FreyaEinde]

Yeah that's the rub for me too, the co-opting to justify cruelty and control over other people's minds and lives. They're fostering the belief that you should never form or trust your own judgement even when it applies to the self.

[@karacoconutag]

I'm totally with Mickey, I regularly shudder to think of what could've happened if I had found Girl Defined at my darkest, most vulnerable states when religion felt like my only lifeline.

[@EmoBearRights]

Last night I was in the comments section for a video of a deprogrammer analysing scenes in films and TV series about cults and the delusions people have all religions are cults, the effing Mormons not only failing to realising this shit applies to them but trying to bleat about slander and even in some cases actually evangelise and the woke is a cult morons. The biggest one though was the all cultists are guillible/dumb myth with an undercurrent of I'd never get sucked into anything like that - I did point out that anyone can get sucked into a toxic idealogy if it's presented to them at a vulnerable time in the right way and most cult leaders know how to sell it to you I don't know if it will do any good but at least I tried.

[@EmoBearRights]

@John Hamilton Wow you're doing a cut and paste of an 'arguement' you've already pasted on another thread and you're blind to the irony you're doing it in a comments thread about a bunch of fundies on a fundie snark channel. You get bonus points if you're a JW or Church of LDS guys Look as someone said you need help but here you won't get converts you'll get deconstruction and snark. You might learn something but you're probably in too deep for that.

[@lexiw.2177]

Same here. I grew up in the evangelical church as a kid and a teenager. I’m really glad KZbin wasn’t really a thing then. I would have fallen for their BS for sure. Honestly, leaving the church was the best thing I ever did.

[@Raddiebaddie]

Omg so true

[@NYChica23]

For real....as much as finding my own personal relationship with Jesus helped me in my darkest moments, I'll be the first to say that the way Girl Defined is doing it is completely antithetical to what Christianity really is, and nothing saddens me more than to see people weaponize Christianity in order to harm the most vulnerable people among us all

[@ameliaj8791]

if y’all had a podcast i’d eat it up

[@truecrimelover2022]

this please

[@kiraalldredge48]

I don't like podcasts and I'd listen to that!

[@mysteriousandforeboding]

yes omg that'd be awesome

[@Vivi-ux4wg]

I thought the same thing!

[@brandin7294]

Gimmie gimmie!

[@AmandaPaige71]

That's sooo true about counselors who are doing their jobs and not trying to change your beliefs. I'm a Catholic to the core and my counselor is a pagan polyamorous person. She rocks and is the best thing I've ever had happen to help me thru my bi polar mania journey. Shout out to ALL the great therapists out there including Mickey! 🤗💕🤗

[@sarahwithstars]

Im loving this post! Good luck on your life journey 💖 im so glad you have someone in your life to help make sense of this world we live in 🥰

[@AmandaPaige71]

@@sarahwithstars tysm! 🤗💕🤗

[@notNajimi]

Love this comment so much

[@sarahwithstars]

@Alexandria Essays oh im sorry, that sounds really hard and you need to feel the space is safe to be truthful with yourself, but if you have to censor things about your life, many issues and traumas may go untouched by talking therapy... Is there any way you could see a therapist from outside your community- a proper stranger who can observe your thoughts about ANYTHING & EVERYTHING without judgement and maybe give you a different perspective? Xxx good luck xxX

[@lesliebohn627]

I'm like clutching my pearls. My philosophy of counseling means that my clients will never know anything about my politics, spirituality (or lack there of), or sexuality. (They guess all the time, & it's almost always wrong, which I find funny). Very glad that you have found a helpful rapport with your therapist though & are sharing your positive experience with others. Thank you for that.

[@margiejcupcakeprincess4711]

I’m 71 and believe everyone should see a therapist /psychiatrist for at least a few sessions if able to.

[@ruminationstation4200]

Especially younger people. My mom would sometimes threaten me with therapy (or that's how it felt at the time), but looking back I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I'd gotten help young. So much of therapy can be working out stuff from childhood anyway, might as well start when the memory is fresh lol.

[@Time_Is_Left]

@@ruminationstation4200 You said you saw it as a threat at the time so maybe a dumb q, but looking back do you think she meant it that way still? Just being nosy

[@melz6625]

My mom is 72 and for the love of everything I can’t get her to therapy. She had an abusive childhood and an emotionally neglectful and abusive mother, bullying for a disability, medical abuse (surgery at 3yrs old without anesthesia) and a husband prematurely dying. If she doesn’t need therapy. Who would? It’s affecting me negatively. She shares things I am not suited to handle. But noo a therapist is bad. *big eye roll*. So happy you are therapy positive in attitude.

[@corypowercat7277]

Agreed. I used to see one when I was younger and saw one again once I started college.

[@MB-qe1xz]

Psychiatrists prescribe medications, I think you mean psychologist. Unfortunately many people don't know the difference and end up scheduling appointments with the wrong person.

[@samanthadavie2171]

“We’ll never get Bethany to deconstruct. But we can have an impact on the audience”. 💯 I was one of the people on the cusp of being completely committed to the girl defined theology just a few years ago. And people like Jen and Mickey, who respond to this stuff in an educated, well reasoned way, without unnecessary attacks, is what made me realise how damaging those ideas are. It triggered my deconstruction, and I’m still going through that. I love both of their channels so much because it is the right mix of informative and entertaining, and they aren’t cruel or dehumanising. Really wish they would collab more often!

[@isabeldubarry2361]

Exactly I was in a similar place

[@saskiascott8181]

I love this 🥰 well done for getting free

[@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060]

Can I ask what is appealing to people from their rhetoric?

[@samanthadavie2171]

@@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060 It's not so much about appeal, its kinda more 'you must or you risk sin, and sin without repentance means hell'. I grew up around it, so I didn't know an alternative, so the 'appeal' was that I wouldn't be rejected or sinful or bad etc. Though I will admit that the black and white image they present of the world does appeal in that it simplifies confusing topics which appealed to me as a young confused teen. But it was also super damaging, and I'm not in the process of unlearning much of it. They also try to say that it makes relationships stronger and brings you closer to God, but in my experience it is the opposite.

[@zurzakne-etra7069]

Amen!

[@newtpollution]

Mickey Ascending when Jen says "Overweight sexually broken loser" gets me every time.

[@jordanleighwheatley]

Can we get "feminism is a communist religion" merch please? Easter is coming up and I need something to wear

[@veronika829]

Yes please

[@lizzyizzywizzy]

what they said !!! i need it

[@chameleleoncall]

Frfr !❤️❤️

[@kaylakthulhu8623]

Me five

[@DimaRakesah]

@Dark Matter OK *THAT* I would wear. I'd be too worried people would see "feminism is a communist religion" and think I was being serious lol

[@swethaloganathan9272]

When you think this week's Jen quota is over and the favourites drop a collab 😭😭😭

[@pinkcatacombs]

I think Bethany probably gets so reactive and upset when she isn’t perceived as a “good person” because that is her and the entire Christian identity. She builds her identity off of being a good person *because* she is religious, so when ppl criticize how she *does* religion they are in effect saying she isn’t being a good person and ripping apart her whole identity she has built for herself. I also think the contrast between the two shows how they embody two different stereotypes, like Bethany is the god fearing follower type of Christian that says what she says because someone told her what to believe and she blindly follows. I think Kristen embodies the stereotype Christian who is just a bad person lol. I don’t think she cares or even tries to be a good person, religion is simply a weapon and a status symbol for her to use to push her own hurtful beliefs. She hides her identity behind religion whereas Bethany seems to use religion to define her identity.

[@kimberlym.6331]

This is a really interesting take I’ve never thought about it like that

[@tinyrat275]

While this is an interesting take of their online identity, I personally think we should all be less aggressive or assertive with our claims about girl defines inner psyche. Remember they’re 3 dimensional people and no one is their full true self online, bad person or not.

[@Ojo10]

As someone who used to be christian, I would agree, I used to be scared of how I'd feel about my identity when I left, because you're taught that everything good comes from god, thus all the good traits you have will be empty without your belief. Now I know better and know that good can exist without a god dictating it, but it used to be a scary thought for me.

[@CharlieHorse4363]

@@Ojo10I have heard that fucked up theology and it annoys me so much. Because actually biblical theology on the matter is that all people have good in them because they’re made in the image of God who is good. The bad is due to the fall which is humanity’s incapacity to deal with endless knowledge of evil, and that’s why even if somebody doesn’t choose to have a relationship with God it’s not like all their good suddenly vanishes from them. It doesn’t erase that they’re still made in his image. So yeah, fuck scare mongering theology.

[@ravengrizzle6852]

I was born and raised in a cult. It’s not well known bc they’ve done a good job of keeping it that way, but they’re located all over the world. Both of your videos have made me feel better about my choice to leave. You guys give me positive reinforcement when literally everything I’d ever known was being torn apart. So thank you for being here and thank you for going so in depth with all of this. It really helps me heal and unpack all the shit I’ve been through. Thank you

[@MickeyAtkins]

I can’t even express how much your comment means! I’m legitimately honored and so happy to hear that you’re choosing you. You deserve happiness and peace! 💕

[@witchassbitch3]

I’m proud of you for prioritizing yourself and leaving that harmful situation 💖

[@meghansullivan6812]

OMG good for you for choosing to leave. You’re strong as hell for that. So glad you’ve found these affirming KZbin channels💚💚💚💚

[@ChasDawnMusic]

Samr here!!!

[@lennonbrooks1083]

I’m also a cult survivor. I’m so excited for you to build your life the way you want to! It’s painful but what is ahead is so much better than what you’re leaving behind ❤️

[@MintyFreshCupcakes]

Me and my partner do something similar! We ask, “Do you want Space, Solutions or Squishes?” Sometimes just a big, tight hug can help when I feel overstimulated.

[@shaliekk]

Fuck yeah

[@kinseydesignsbrands]

I love this and the alliteration!

[@marisha.art.channel]

I’m stealing this for my marriage. Thank you

[@EmoBearRights]

That's really good - I'm married to.someone who makes the mistakes of thinking that solutions are almost always the answer and keeping everything tidy.

[@marisha.art.channel]

@John Hamilton You need help

[@ivyandblueroses2953]

From someone who was raised in the world Girl Defined and others like them promote, please never stop publicly criticising them. What they are doing is actively and permanently harmful to their vulnerable audience - or rather, their victims. I'm going to have to carry the trauma of my indoctrination and upbringing in their fucked up fundie world for the rest of my life. I don't want others to go through the same.

[@ivyandblueroses2953]

And for survivors like me, seeing you critique their views and get angry at the harm they inflict helps remind me that I'm not crazy or "overly sensitive," that I'm not the broken one, people like them are.

[@Elaan021]

My family wasn't fundie and the church just went to was very middle of the road (United Methodist) but I grew up in the Bible Belt and I'm just now realizing how much religious bullshit I (unknowingly and unwillingly) internalized. These criticisms are super helpful and recognizing this.

[@BlackIsALightShade]

this.

[@dawno5112]

💯💯

[@DrDoerk]

@John Hamilton I'm glad there's at least 1 other person with a brain in this comment section

[@FaithEvolving]

framing looking for bad/mean comments as “digital self harm” is mind blowing to me omg thank you for that language

[@pansexualdickhaver6878]

I said the same shit😂 perfect description

[@Ojo10]

Yeah if you think about it, you wouldn't go up to people and ask them what thier criticisms of you are, because you know, they're random people you shouldn't give a fuck about. So to do it online is not healthy behavior.

[@mirrortarget5729]

Welp, guess I'll stop doom scrolling then. Thanks for the reminder!

[@kontzel]

Christian (ordained pastor) who is also an LCSW here... and you FOR SURE can find a therapist who is supportive of your faith/spirituality/questioning/atheism. I used to say that I don't do "Faith Based Therapy" ... I do "Faith Informed Therapy" for those people who ask for that angle. A good therapist will identify how your spirituality or faith life is a protective factor or strength and encourage you to harness it.

[@carlysimpson9518]

Completely 100% agree! Something that turned me away from therapy for YEARS was the “faith BASED therapy.” This view was shoved on me because I identified as Christian, when what I really needed was psychologically informed advice. Would love to see a new generation of “faith informed”therapists (and be part of it!!!)

[@deltaloraine]

Yeah i had a therapist who just happened to be Christian. She asked if I was religious, and I told her I was an agnostic atheist with bad history with Christianity. She completely understood and we moved on. A good therapist will know whether talking about faith is helpful to the client or not. She was a great person to talk to and I have no doubt she’d give good insight to a more religious client as well.

[@siphonophorespiral]

You give me hope, honestly-- I love that you do that, I'm not Christian, but I'm heavily religious (pagan! :D) and this is really cool to see lmao

[@ChristianCatboy]

@@siphonophorespiral Yeah, I recommend giving it a try. I found a therapist who would let me talk about the "crazy" religious ideas that I tend to get obsessed with, blending Christianity with pagan and esoteric elements. It really helped the deconstruction process to get honest, informed, professional feedback that wasn't judgmental, from either the orthodox or anti-religious direction.

[@CharlieHorse4363]

Dude yes such a refreshing take… my partner’s therapist (who was egregiously lacking in many other important ways) literally wrote in his therapy notes his recent coming to faith in Christianity due to some spiritual experiences as being psychotic episodes DESPITE him never exhibiting any signs of clinical psychosis. Also he didn’t learn she thought so until he requested his records. Which pissed me off even more because I’m sorry?? But if you genuinely think your client is beginning to exhibit religious psychosis, which is a very serious real condition, you have a responsibility to inform your client and create a comprehensive care plan to address it. But yeah. All she ever did was ask what his coping mechanisms were. And then when he kept expressing in frustration he didn’t have any and wanted some guidance she just responded with well figure it out. I could go on but yeah it pissed me off.

[@laffytaffy2916]

I cried watching this, so spot on and HYSTERICAL! My parents forced me to go to a church school with girls like Kristen and Beth and they preached, smiled, we all had to be blonde, skinny, were bullied if we put on a few pounds over breaks, yup I developed an ED there that I still fight 16 years later. They knew all the versus by heart, charmed teachers, parents, stayed after to “clean.” But they were mean abu$ive girls in hiding, who could never be wrong. They are so damaging to other young girls, they are sooo nice to you the first week or two then use everything you’ve talked about and told them about yourself when you thought they were decent human beings against you to somehow twist and make fun of, your last name, your parents jobs, everything you’ve worn, your voice, your height, how often you have to pee, IF YOU SMILE TOO MUCH!! I remember having my wrist twisted so hard for not agreeing to join in on bullying someone new, spit on one, pushed into lockers. They aren’t who most people think, it’s all about the show!

[@sarahnelson8836]

This whole “can’t be wrong” “be perfect so they can never criticize you” “vulnerability is weakness” stuff keeps showing up again and again…. I understand where they are getting it (people who mess up in the Bible sometimes get large penalties) but at the same time God is forgiving and loves us as we are… why does that part of the Bible go flying over these peoples heads. The children’s song goes “ Jesus loves me this I know because the Bible tells me so” not “ Jesus loves me only if I follow the Bible completely and never mess up” that would be a terrible song.

[@ambriaashley3383]

So sorry that happened to you. ❤

[@SassySmall1]

Saw a vide from Girl Defined one of them said she wasn't attracted to her husband and specifically mentioned on her wedding day. I don't know which of them said it, but both of them were giggling about it as if its sooo quirky! I can't imagine making that remark about a current partner.

[@gamere105ek2]

Lauren That would be Kristen, I saw that video too. I sincerely hope her husband never sees that video.

[@michellebennett4015]

Jaclyn Glen covered it nicely

[@mumbledmeatballs5629]

That’s also just so fucking sad

[@mooney9046]

Woooow. I can't imagine marrying someone I'm not attracted to, but people get married for all different reasons I guess. It's one thing to have that thought and kind another to say it on KZbin. Some things are best left said in private or not at all.

[@gamere105ek2]

@@mooney9046 Well it was actually Bethany that outright said about Kristen not being attracted to her husband. She said that she remembered Kristen walking down the aisle on her wedding day, stopping where Bethany was seated, and leaning over and saying to her “I’m not actually attracted to him, but I’m going for it anyways,” so it was Bethany that outed Kristen unfortunately. I don’t think Bethany’s the best a keeping secrets 😂, I really don’t think Kristen wanted that to be known whatsoever. In Kristen’s case I think she was kind of expected to marry her husband despite not being attracted to him. That’s how it is in a lot of Fundie circles, especially when you get engaged to someone, you’re kind of expected to go through with marrying then even if you’d rather call off the engagement. I believe Kristen did call off one engagement before she met Zack (Her current husband), and I assume that didn’t go over well in her family, so she probably felt more obligated to just go through it the second time as she already said no to marrying one guy.

[@beyondallmeasure]

When my husband and I got married 2 decades ago, one of the men from our fundy church gave him a spanking paddle to keep me in line. Not part of that church anymore. 😳

[@chromesthesia]

Eww

[@maryeckel9682]

YIKES

[@gamere105ek2]

Ew, obviously women beaters. A grown adult doesn’t need to be hit in anyway.

[@FreyaEinde]

I hope you used it for purely consensual kinky play, just to spite the psychos. Ugh, weird assholes.

[@beyondallmeasure]

@@FreyaEinde I actually burned it 🤣 🔥

[@Deedeeindeed902]

This is the best collab ever, no one can change my mind!!

[@jessicacharlton7347]

I agree! I'm so excited!

[@tayberjk2559]

Agreed!

[@stilted]

I have been waiting!!!!!

[@lisawhereisthecultjam]

I'm so excited to listen! Yay! Two of my favorite ladies. 💕

[@Jasmineflowerkisses]

Right! So happy about this one.

[@NexLegacyAccount]

"Just admit that some learning has happened. It's not that hard." I have a unique perspective on this. I grew up in a very exclusionary Christian town in rural Texas, so basically most of the population would fall into Girl Defined's target demographic in some way. The thing about people like that is they are EXTREMELY black and white. It's the same sort of mentality that fuels the anti-vax movement. They don't understand the concept of opinions and beliefs changing based on new information, they see it as a person being wrong. Which means if Bethany acknowledged the shift in her perspective at all, she would most likely lose the trust of most of her audience regardless of any rational reasoning she may have. In their eyes, she was "wrong", which means she shouldn't be trusted any longer. Yes, they really think like this.

[@sarahnelson8836]

…. It’s like they equate being incorrect once with being morally and socially worthless/wrong…. that sounds so fragile like constantly walking on eggshells. They need to learn that vulnerability is a site of growth

[@NexLegacyAccount]

@@sarahnelson8836 It's a little more complicated than that. They have this expectation that the world and the people in it are/should be a certain way. They look to certain people to explain to them what that way is. There's no room for change or deviation, they're looking for something concrete, routine, simple, and comfortable. If anything attempts to disrupt that mental bubble, all trust is broken and the disrupter is seen as an "other" and not to be taken seriously. It's basically, "You told me the world is this way, and now you're saying it's not, therefore you are a liar and/or stupid!"

[@fricketyfracktraintrack]

Huh. No wonder my extremely close-minded Jehovah's witness father eventually moved there

[@NexLegacyAccount]

@@fricketyfracktraintrack Dude don't even get me started. My childhood neighborhood was mostly Jehovah's Witness. One of the big churches was about 20 minutes from my home town.

[@fricketyfracktraintrack]

@@NexLegacyAccount yikes lol. Yeah I kind of sneer whenever I see a building now. Did you ever talk to any of them? Most of them are nice people, at least on the surface.

[@okaytessa2481]

With the digital self-harm, one of the things that I don't see people talk about but Contrapoints started to touch on it a little and I felt very seen, is developing these things as a compulsion when you have OCD. It's awful, it's so hard to stop bc you can't exactly stop using the Internet, and if you're going through a shitty breakup or anything similar, it's debilitating. I've talked about it with my therapist who has said that they see it a lot but I've had a hard time finding resources or my people. Can't talk about it to everyone else because they'd be shocked by how far OCD takes it. Anyway. Thank for this video, I love you both v much!!

[@nottheilluminati]

Omg... I just went thru an episode of this on my social media. I hadn't thought about how my OCD behaviors could play a role in this but that makes so much sense.

[@kristinewalberg2938]

I'd never heard the term digital self-harm, but I realize that it's exactly what I do. I have my writing posted on a couple different websites and have received hundreds of much appreciated positive comments, but it's still the negative comments that stick to me like superglue. Partly that's because those comments tend to be SOOO over-the-top mean, like I murdered their first-born child rather than just having posted a story they didn't enjoy. I realize that my way-too-serious reaction comes from my upbringing of having to be beyond reproach at every single minute and invariably falling short because I'm, um... human, but I've internalized that message so deeply that one person not liking something I created equals total failure.

[@Courtcat1324]

I literally have to have someone else set my time limits for my social media apps because my OCD checking behavior and rituals (plus adhd dopamine seeking) I have no control and I've d e f i n i t e l y experienced this. I'll check just one more time or feel the need to "complete" my scrolling by going back to the same place as before.

[@okaytessa2481]

@@Courtcat1324 It's so debilitating! And like, of course it's going to make you feel bad, the human brain isn't designed to consume all of this information and people didn't use to get this type of peek into the lives of people from their past and so on. Internet-based obsessions and rituals have been the hardest for me to move on from than any other, they're a b*tch

[@Elaan021]

You make a really good point about not really being able to stop using the internet. People always default to "just stop using social media" when that's how a lot of people genuinely keep in touch. It's like the difference between substance abuse and an ED. You can completely stop using and being around a substance, you can't stop eating food. At this point, going completely dark online isn't realistic and do a lot of harm by cutting people off from support networks. (Not equating digital self harm with ED, just drawing a parallel.)

[@karlaivelisse1959]

Y’all I had to ghost my therapist cause I was telling her I got scammed by a psychic and she came back with “well I’m a Christian” and the whole vibe was weird after that. It was refreshing to hear y’all talk about this ✨

[@urheehoo]

terrible "therapist"

[@stateofgrace03]

aw i’m sorry the therapist should never have stated their beliefs that’s not what their job is

[@jaynenunya6070]

🚩🚩🚩

[@magicalmomo9987]

100% why I always make sure that I don't choose a religious therapist if at all possible. Like don't bring that mess to my space to heal smh. I hope you found a better therapist!

[@Mrs08Depp]

Tbh I wanna hear the story of how they scammed you. 😊

[@tiffanyhowell8444]

i’m only halfway through but you guys have the BEST energy together, i would love to see another collab in the future! i could listen to you guys chat all day

[@AMFibers]

Right? They should start a podcast together.

[@LunaciaBooks]

@@AMFibers I'll second that!

[@pickleknits3675]

I would listen to that podcast

[@DarkbutNotsinister]

I was sad when it was over!

[@DarkbutNotsinister]

Is there a reward for the longest comment on KZbin?

[@alicianwinter]

when you two were talking about sensory stuff I just realized that as a kid I would go lay on the tile of my parents bathroom floor for comfort because I couldn’t stop the thought spiral of the inevitability of death and everyone that I loved deaths. sooooo soothing every time. ♥️ now I know why- thank you!

[@CharlieHorse4363]

How did you overcome that spiral tendency (if you have)? If you have any coping mechanisms or therapy recs I would deeply appreciate it!!

[@rebeccaroberie9364]

Not just spanking… it’s all forms of disciplining your partner. Taking credit cards, selling their car, turning off WiFi, controlling all the money and providing an allowance… it’s awful.

[@jordanweber3381]

Religion-sponsored partner abused! Gotta love it! /s

[@rebeccaroberie9364]

@@jordanweber3381 what super sucks is realizing you believed in all of that crap your entire life and then accepting the bs from your partner like it’s normal. There is great satisfaction I have now in telling him to get bent but it took a long time to realize it was wrong and that it was ok to stand up for mysel fb

[@mooney9046]

I visited one of those Christian Domestic Discipline websites...some of those people very obviously just want to get spanked/give spankings for sexual reasons but try to twist it into a religious reason due to shame.

[@rebeccaroberie9364]

@John Hamilton I appreciate your well explained and biblical response. My personal experience with Christianity has not been pleasant or uplifting. It has been oppressive and more focused on sacrificing my life for the idea of a better afterlife. Part of this oppression was training me, as a woman, to accept physical/mental/emotional/financial/sexual abuse of my husband. Women are only valued for their virginity in the sect of Christianity I was raised in. Marriage is something to be endured… not enjoyed. A lifetime of resentful and passive aggressive mean and snarky comments to one another, but staying legally married (even if you hate each other), is what was expected. If that is what I’m supposed to be as a “Christian woman,” no thanks. If the standard to go to heaven is so strict my odds aren’t good anyway so why sacrifice my life for a long shot? I’m glad you have such strong convictions- that is amazing and I love that for you. I don’t and have come to accept that.

[@Raddiebaddie]

😢😢😢

[@bianca_boop]

Very excited to see this collab! On the subject of religious therapists: I'm agnostic-atheist with a Christian therapist. I've never felt proselytized to, and in fact I appreciate the personal reminder that Christianity ≠ bigotry and hate (especially when working through crap with my relationship with my conservative evangelical parents). A good therapist won't try to influence your spriritual beliefs.

[@madisonwaycaster9832]

I think the best thing my mom ever did for me raising me as a christian was that we never went to church. Mainly it was just too damn early in the morning in her opinion to get up and do anything on a sunday and also she was very much aware of how full of shit our family members and people who do regularly go to church are. My aunts were always asking her "Why don't you and your daughter come to church" and she would ask me if I wanted to go and I'd say no and she'd just shrug like "There you have it". 😂 They were all so horrified like we were straying further and further away from God or some shit.

[@larissatom6910]

I believe organized religion is a problem, not the believing in a higher power.

[@madisonwaycaster9832]

@@larissatom6910 Agreed. I think by organizing it, r, for example, putting "in God we trust" on the dollar bill, it was inevitably going to give those within the christian faith a since of superiority or hierarchy over those outside that very confined section of religion. But, the purpose of the English settlers from the beginning was to murder people outside their faith who were here first. So maybe religious extremism was always an inevitability we're only now realizing the horrific results of. I honestly don't understand why respecting and appreciating different cultures and faiths is so disgusting to the Christian right but I guess I'm just weird.

[@n4musica]

I so wish my parents just let me not go. I remember pretending to sleep on Sunday morning and hope as hard as I could that by some miracle we weren’t going to church. And not in a “meh I don’t want to go” kinda way, like a “Anxiety inducing, deep seated dread that I felt all week”

[@madisonwaycaster9832]

I also don't get why religious people are so against other religions purely because it's not your own. Even if you ultimately disagree I think there's always something to be gained by immersing yourself in different religions or ideologies if you go in with an open mind. The point of God is that the existence can't be proven or disproven so if you truly believe in him why should you feel threatened by different points of view? I've had friends who're Jewish, Buddhist, Satanist and listening to them talk about their faiths is fascinating. If your faith is so fragile that you feel threatened because someone you know worships Islam I think that's a you problem not a them problem.

[@n4musica]

@@madisonwaycaster9832 Im not religious anymore, but it’s because in a lot of religions (Christianity specifically) it’s lined out in religious text that other religions are sinful and those people are going to hell

[@someonerandom256]

I'm in the middle of a deconstruction with one foot out. I grew up with a very Bethanyesque mother who raised me with similar ideals. I've spent my entire adulthood in conflict between how I was raised and indoctrinated and my true nature. It's been quite a journey over the past few years.

[@gamere105ek2]

Some Random Lady I’m actually wondering if Bethany’s son or any future children she may have will look at her old videos one day and be like “So that’s what’s wrong with me” 😂

[@ruthie8785]

Good luck to you, and you’re in the right place.

[@kenz2401]

I am losing my fucking mind over this duo. Literally a KZbin dream come true. 😍 #WhenFeedsCollide

[@DrDoerk]

I like how these 2 are bashing others about their emotional immaturity, when they are immature themselves...... like why does a 40 year old have dyed hair? She's not in middle school.... seems pretty immature to me

[@gemmadirenna7712]

@@DrDoerk😅😅🤡

[@closetculture3025]

I grew up in a semi fundamentalist home. My parents belong to Saddleback Church in Orange County, CA. Please, if you desire, do a video on them. You won't regret looking into them, I'm sure. So, growing up, I was the rebellious black sheep. I identify as a Pagan and started studying at eight. I love mechanics, cars, motorcycles, art, music, different cultures from around our beautiful world, and many things that didn't fit into my parents little world. My life living with them was a bunch of forced bible study, got sent to bible camp once, was told many times I shouldn't like the things I like because I was a female, and my parents literally taught me nothing in order to survive and thrive in the world. I learned to cook by myself, learned to sew by myself, learned to have good hygiene by myself, learned about other cultures by myself, learned financial stability by myself, and so much more I had to learn by myself. I was always told I was worthless and wouldn't amount to anything in life because I wasn't considered a "good girl" because of my own way of living. Still to this day, I have issues with self esteem and self respect. I don't really have anything to do with my parents either because they just simply ignore the fact that I'm happy without being a Christian. It's just unacceptable to them and they don't want to hear or care for anything that doesn't fit into their bubble. In my opinion, it is so damaging because you don't learn know how to function in the world and you're perpetually ignorant unless you make the effort to teach yourself. Also, the psychological and emotional damage is something that sticks with you through life, and in that way, you can't functional well in the world either. Anyway, that's my two cents. I thoroughly enjoyed this collaboration and I look forward to more. Love you guys and love to my fellow humans.

[@malloryjines5050]

Then your parents didn’t raise you the way they should have. Please don’t blame God, your parents are to blame. I’m a 65 year old grandmother and I always understood that my job as a mother was to raise my kids to be independent, good members of society. Yes, teach them to cook, financial independence, etc. I was so fortunate to have parents to teach me ll those things. I was a total tomboy. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! God created you to be who you are. I’m so sorry you had a disfunctional childhood. Rise above it and believe in yourself! God is on your side!

[@onbearfeet]

Here to second Saddleback. I lived in Orange County for years and hooooo boy. Look into Rick Warren. From his terrible books to his political connections--that whole organization has a smell about it.

[@asthma23dudet05]

I grew up in OC too.I went to the youth weekend service a few times with friends in High School. I definitely got a weird vibe not sure why. It felt like a bigger version of the church I was raised in Compass Bible Church, Orange County. I would love to see a video about Saddleback. It’s so popular here but it seems to have some high control aspects.

[@hannah12114]

I have met 2 people that have worked there. I worked with them at a warehouse. One of them worked with youth ministries. He constantly made a lot of jokes. Yea I grew up Christian as well and had to learned a lot of stuff on my own too. Like about different cultures, mental health, lgbtq people ( I’m bisexual, figured out at 19), that there was a lot different perspectives in Christianity, learned about narcism, and many more stuff. Also when I was really depressed they would just try to cheer me up and say stuff and god. They never took me to see a psychologist. It was bad I was crying almost everyday for 2 months, secretly started to cut myself, wrote a suicide note, and felt very anxious. Now I’m finally seeing a psychologist to assess me for autism. My parents took the word of a pediatrician that they didn’t need to look more into what I had. Now as an adult I have to go look for answers on why I was different from a lot of children. So yea my parents would just say god would help in whatever situation it was. They said they would help me by helping me seek help for my anxiety. They didn’t do that, I was struggling so bad I had to do it myself recently. Now on meds and feeling a lot better. I looked for help finally at 24. Now I have to look into a psychologist that I can talk to regularly. The assessment one is just for looking into possibly having ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). My anxiety was a thing struggled with whole life. Upsets me they didn’t seek to help me get help as a child. They just ignored things and say god would help, and they were so paranoid that I barely got to hangout with my friends outside school because something bad might happen. So I will never raise my children religiously, they will be heard, and I will help them with their mental health. I will allow them to believe whatever they want not be told they have to believe in what I believe.

[@asthma23dudet05]

@@hannah12114 I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I bet it was frustrating not getting help from your parents. I’m glad you’re getting the help you need now.

[@nuggetpai]

You two seem to have a great chemistry together, like seeing good friends talk. It's a joy to watch. I'd love to see more collabs!

[@pammgurl]

mickeys mannerisms are so freaking cute,i love watching her and the way she talks, the way she says things is extremely adorable! She seems like a very sweet and caring person

[@Rawnblade13]

Ah yes, "Rules for thee; but not for me." The conservative Christian motto.

[@DrDoerk]

No Christian believes that..... if they do, then they aren't a Christian

[@ruthpiazza2831]

At the age of 51 both you lovely peeps have really help me to deconstruct the awful toxic beliefs my family forced on me and shamed me for most of my life because I am not in lock step with them.

[@Goat.Cheese]

This collab was absolutely delightful. So naturally funny and comfortable but still informative. Love it!

[@azlizzie]

Getting a ton of fangirl vibes at the beginning from both of you. It’s evident that you are enamored with one another. It’s charming.

[@tristendiangelo8910]

Was raised a Jehovah’s witness which I would consider a cult due to the authoritarian nature, the being discouraged from questioning, the shunning etc. Videos like these remind me of why I left and the work you guys are doing to spread positive messages and deconstruct misinformation is amazing! Thank y’all for what you do ❤️

[@gd2234_]

“Do what you need to cope, if praying helps do it, if sticking your feet in wet mud helps, do it” I feel like there should be the disclaimer “as long as it doesn’t harm yourself or others”, but other than that I totally agree with this statement.

[@cynthiaevery2801]

Love this

[@eugeniaosborne3883]

I'm old enough to be your mom, or maybe even your granny. I had so much fun watching this! I love the way y'all keep it real, but have clear integrity.

[@515aleon]

Me too. I'm old enough to be their trans granddaddy. But they are wonderful and a great combo.

[@LSSYLondon]

"Do you want space or do you want help? " very very important.

[@kristinewalberg2938]

into Bipolar Disorder runs in my family. Mine developed at exactly the same time that my mom switched our family from a perfectly normal Presbyterian Church, where being "religious" meant being kind to other people and helping out in the community, to an Evangelical Church where everything was bass-ackwards and, frankly, repugnant. My theory is that mom was feeding her childhood trauma and terrible self-esteem by seeking out an environment where she could be punished in an institutional setting, with a side order of superstition, science-denial and misogyny. The place was terrible for her mental health and equally bad for mine, especially after a stint of conversion therapy and being regularly groped by one of the elders. It's seriously lucky I made it out of my early teen years, and that was only because I had a group of loving, non-Fundie friends to counteract the crazy. I also--except for maybe a week when I was 11--bought into the most of toxic narrative, though at church (3X a week!) I was surrounded by girls who did. The only thing that caught me by surprise was that I was exactly the same person after having sex as I was before. That Purity Culture shite will really mess up your brain.

[@yanavav]

Im so happy that u have a great support system, its literally the ppl around you that uplift you and make you feel accepted. I love your perspective on the whole purity culture/experiencing sex for the first time. Purity culture is a phat mf that needs to be put down. Esp in hyper-relgious contexts.

[@BlackIsALightShade]

i had a very similar experience as you. i’m also thankful i had non-fundie friends to balance things out for me - they probably saved me from being a fundamentalist today.

[@basementdwellercosplay]

My mom, sister, and I do the "do you want help or space" to each other, but we say "do you want to vent or do you want help" when we're angry or anxious

[@minanoir5916]

Going off of the “space or help” comment, my partner and I say something similar. “Do you want comfort or solution?” I love this and it really helps us gauge where the other is and what they need. Such great advice

[@justemmalyn7934]

28:14 "Do you want space or do you want help?" That is AMAZING. Way to go James! I once was having a really bad day and broke down. My friend brought me into a quiet room and said, "Okay, I'm going to sit here with you for a little while, and you don't have to say anything if you don't want to, but I'm here if you need to talk." After a couple minutes of silence, I opened up and he listened and talked with me and it really helped. To this day, that is one of the kindest and most effective things anyone's ever done for my mental health.

[@AeriaGl0ris]

IT'S HAPPENING! The crossover we've waited for! I'm gonna make another cup of tea and settle down to listen while I do some sewing. ETA: This was so much fun to listen to! And yes, please do another collab!

[@Radish__64]

I was literally about to make the same exact comment down to the tea and the sewing lol

[@AeriaGl0ris]

@@Radish__64 I find deep dives are great to listen to while doing something like sewing.

[@TheIdealisticCynic]

Disagree on the tea, and agree on the sewing. Love this!

[@Elaan021]

I need a series.

[@AeriaGl0ris]

Ugh, there's someone going around preaching. I hate it when people think you're just a captive audience for their preaching that does more harm than good. Reported.

[@Nexibis]

Mickey and Jen are two of my favourite YTers. I think you both are very compassionate, insightful and joyful people.

[@anonomus8709]

I just want to know why they’ve unfollowed each other 😢 not because I’m nosy, but because it made me genuinely sad to see that.

[@Nexibis]

@@anonomus8709 They did? Oh no! I didn’t know that.

[@jazz1282]

Can you both please please turn this type of collaboration into a podcast? This breakdown was so cathartic to listen to, and I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting to hear more of you both together. This video is truly what dreams are made of!!

[@BlondeEyes7]

I have a new therapist and she keeps responding to my anecdotes with a shocked, “Oh my GOD!” It’s actually really validating.

[@morganspencer6730]

This video has made me love Jen more than I thought possible. Her unhinged excitement to be here makes me so happy!

[@AWindy94]

28:35 this is some great advice. My partner is on the autism spectrum and when they get overwhelmed, and there's been times where I just dont know what to do because they're over stimulated. I started asking if they need a hug or not because that's basically the cure all for me, but that's not what they sometimes need. Asking if they need help or space is so much more communicative and concise to what I'm actually trying to ask, this has been super helpful!

[@brandiroseshaw]

Two of my absolute favorites. I was ridiculously excited when this popped up! I'm a counselor and ex-fundie. So let's just say I'm invested.

[@fiery_scream]

Loved this collab! Combining Mickey's therapeutic knowledge and Jen's fundie knowledge makes for a really insightful convo! If you guys ever made a podcast or just had another collab in the future, I'd definitely be there. :) Jen said at one point how Mickey helped her become more comfortable w/therapy in general and I completely agree. Watching your vids has made me a lot more confident about seeking treatment.

[@kel1477]

honestly you and Jen are some of the healthiest ways to interact with Fundie content. Often it hits close to home and exvangelicals can be incredibly angry and you all are talking about it in a less hurt angry way.

[@PianoViolinGuitar]

The conversation about extrinsic religious views and emotional intelligence blew my mind. I grew up in the Mormon religion where there's an emphasis on going on 1 1/2 to 2 year missions all around the world to baptize people into the religion as well as an emphasis on how your spiritual journey affects the eternal destination of your entire family. A lot of the people I know who have left the church or at least taken a step back all show signs of high emotional intelligence.

[@Kathy.Cooksey6]

So, I go to a therapist, in the wonderful city that also has Focus on the Family (focus on your own damn family) and I go into my therapists office and absolutely RANT about the religious nuts here! And she's like, its a shame this over the top religious people do this, they are only souring others on the joys (?!) of their religion. She's wonderful! When you find a therapist that fits you, it is gold!

[@eleanor3476]

I have been watching jen’s content for about a year now and it has really helped me deconstruct a lot of the things I was taught being brought up in the house of pastors/ministers my entire life. I was born into “the church” and the only perspective I was ever taught was from going to church and the beliefs my christian parents had. Since moving out of my parents house about a year ago I have also left my christian beliefs and am on my own journey of deconstruction which hasn’t been the most easy. You are taught to not doubt your beliefs and if you do that is from the devil so I always felt awful and bad when I started to question things. I’m also an individual that is apart of the lgbtq+ community but am not out to my parents and most of my family because i’m scared that their love for me will change. Since living on my own my parents have changed the way they treat me entirely and have mostly alienated me because i’m not doing the things they wanted me to do. I stared singing in church in 6th grade and was forced to lead the worship for many churches by my parents all through middle and high school, if I ever didn’t feel like it my mother would say i was being selfish for not using the gift that God had given me and it could be taken away from me if i’m not honoring God with my voice. My voice was always something i used in the church so since leaving my beliefs I have had a hard time even wanting to sing because it had become a job for me. I could really use the advice on how to continue my relationship with my parents in a healthy way but also being able to stand up for what I believe even though my beliefs no longer align with theirs :/

[@eleanor3476]

There is much more I could unpack about myself but I wanted to keep my comment to the point… :)

[@ohshitjeffrey3741]

It’s tricky, but worth sticking up for yourself regardless. No pro counselor here but feel good about your decisions and find a tribe. Jennonites Unite! Holy koolaid, Telltale, Beau of the Fifth Column, Antibot, Viced Rhino, Rationality Ruless, Paulogia and many others are here to help you survive and move on. I do miss being involved in the social scene of my church growing up but absolutely reject Religion and religious thinking now so can’t imagine passively participating. I say that to share because I sang well at church and find nowhere else enjoy that myself anymore either. I wish you all happiness, and being without religion is more liberating the longer I exist. Love and light from TX

[@BROOKLYNNMUSIC]

OMGGG I NEVER CLICKED ON A VIDEO SO FAST IN MY LIFEEEEE! I’ve been waiting for this collab SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME, no lie! As an ex-fundie myself, I have found both of y’all’s content to be so validating and eye opening to the religious trauma I went through growing up! It’s been so comforting in a sense, to hear other folks’ stories and to know I’m not alone! Love y’all bunches!!! 🥰💜🥰

[@BabySharque]

"You got loads of good comments too!" "Yeah but this one's correct!" I felt this in my soul, omg.

[@jollyhoppy5200]

I'm a christian and I go once a month to a counselor, she has never told me to stop believing in God. The only reason why she is asking about my faith is becuse she needs to know all aspect of my life in order to help me. This was a great video, I don't agree with everything but I love to listen to people with different opinions then myself, it challenges me and make life intresting.

[@ChelseaReee]

I'm working my way through this channel chronologically having found Mickey in the last three months but I just wanted to comment here that this combo of creators was the most enjoyable thing I've consumed on YT in a LONG time. Just the back and forth made me feel so much like I'm sitting with my older sisters having a good discussion even though I'm pretty sure I'm older than both of you and I am the eldest sibling in my own family but I so very much value that feeling of having older siblings to lean on and y'all...*chef's kiss* thank you!

[@kayk.5175]

The things Jen casually dropped in this episode, your dynamic together is so great

[@lindacollings8554]

I am a modern Christian. I have a university degree and earn money. (I am married and have 2 kids). I am also pro meds and proper therapy!! I have mental health issues that if I didn't get help for I would probably not be here. Love both you ladies ! This collab is awesome!

[@lightblockmountain]

My first and best therapist was part of a presbyterian pastoral institute. The most amazing guy. Also, my pcp was part of a low income clinic inside a church and they would literally ask if you wanted to pray at the end of your appointment. The nicest people. And NOT quacks. People just need to look for the right people

[@blueeyedbraniac]

As someone who grew up surrounded by Christianity, and spent years interacting with ministers, pastors, and other church leaders/members across various denominations, and then went on to get a degree in Religion (not Christianity); I absolutely love these videos. I have been watching Jen for some time now, but am so glad to have found Mickey now too. As someone who has studied cults, New Religious Movements, Scientology, Christianity, etc., I cannot tell you how much I appreciate seeing people actually talk about the extremely dangerous practices and information being spread by people like Girl Defined. I have seen firsthand the impact and damage that the Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christian movement can and has done to communities, and the damage that these “influencers” can now inflict on those who may be questioning their place in life is heartbreaking. Mickey and Jen keep spreading the truth!

[@Katied2017]

How am I blessed to have an hour long video with two of my favorite tubers?? So excited for the vid!

[@runawaygerm]

This video has me stanning Jen even more! I appreciate her speaking more openly about herself.

[@caselinpritchett2410]

Omg these are my two favorite creators and the fact that they're in one video makes me so excited right now

[@Amethystgrace16]

I absolutely loved this video, especially y’all’s off-topic convos! So proud of you Jen for starting therapy- I think you will LOVE it!! Y’all are both amazing. As a queer liberal Christian (raised catholic) who loves therapy I can vouch for the fact that deconstruction or examining your beliefs does not always lead to atheism. Growing up as a queer kid I was forced to confront a lot of my religious beliefs, those of my family and those of my church communities and interrogate them in order to literally stay alive. I was lucky to have a supportive family and live in a liberal state where I could find progressive and queer affirming churches and come to the realization that I was not inherently sinful or damned but that not everything I had been taught was true. My religion is shaped by my personal relationship with God and interpretation of text rather than what old white men have promoted to further their agenda. I personally believe that God and Jesus value how you treat others and being nonjudgmental over the gender of your sexual partners and when you choose to have sex. I think God has better things to worry about than what my partner has in their pants imo. Not to make this deconstruction sound easy, it was super messy and painful, but now my faith is so much more genuine and something that brings me comfort (a coping skill promoted by my secular therapist!). I have a diverse group of friends who come from a variety of religious backgrounds and some of my most devoutly religious friends (Christian and Muslim) are some of the most accepting, affirming, and supportive of my queer family. My wife and I just welcomed our first baby!! On another note, Jen and Mickey, my wife is a therapist and I can hard relate to being “therapized” by them. To make matters worse my wife specializes in child therapy so their tone is sometimes the one they would use with an emotionally disregulated four year old.😂 definitely annoying and infuriating, but a force of habit lol. Thank for listening y’all, this was really therapeutic for me to write

[@jonigarciajg]

I'm an atheist leftist and therapist, recently learned about my Quaker roots, and realized that my value system is almost identical

[@angelfaye101]

I dont have any quaker roots but one I learned about their ideology I realized that my personal beliefs resemble theirs as well

[@totallylooney8292]

I'm a cradle atheist who was born and raised in a Quaker household. It was great - a non-authoritarian tradition that values reading, questioning, and kindness.

[@kadenfoley3514]

As a Quaker this is lovely to hear! I'm agnostic and a Quaker and I've found it to be a great space. Christians deserve Religious spaces they can be safe in and Quakerism isn't perfect but It's pretty good

[@saskiascott8181]

Quakers are dope

[@WhosaidIrene]

Years ago I found an LMSW that saw both my teens for a time; When I hear Mickey talk, not only what she says, but her gentleness and body language reminds me of this gem 💎. There’s great therapist out there☺️

[@AroAceEnbyTaste]

I'm 5'2" and I wear 10.5 W to 11W in woman's shoes and it's nice to know that they make nice shoes in bigger sizes.

[@2cheapchicchicks628]

You guys need to do an update on this video. Still loved it even though it's 2 years old! I love both of your content.

[@elemenolois]

I just wanted to say that the King of the Hill clip from that video is actually what introduced me to King of the Hill for the first time! Now I’ve watched the series twice! So really I think they should pay you for promoting it 😂

[@KendraKingery]

Please do more collabs together!!! I can’t get enough of the chemistry y’all have and I could listen to y’all chat for days!!

[@truecrimelover2022]

I can't wait to watch the colab we all wanted, needed, and dreamed about I already love it. Halfway through love it so much.

[@maytay_woo]

This is currently the best collab on YT. This is the collab we all need. 100000% of the time.

[@feliciam1091]

Fun fact- I came from a cult that doesn't believe in once saved always saved. They believed that you could actually not sin. Let me tell you- that was HELLA stressful! If I made any minor mistakes I was terrified that I wasn't saved anymore. We also had the added "bonus" of being stressed with how people perceived the group. I'm glad to be out now.

[@barbieblues7639]

At least normal religions that believe that have a confession process, what were you supposed to do then?

[@feliciam1091]

@@barbieblues7639 we were encouraged to constantly "seek God"- literally devoting hours at a time to prayer at an alter with tons of other yelling/crying/singing people. The emotional release was often cathartic at times, but overall it was really toxic. We were told to "seek deeper experiences" in prayer so that we wouldn't fall away from the faith. After all, if we could lose our salvation wouldn't the only logical thing to do be to literally spend your whole life trying to cling to it? It sucked. Since leaving, I have discovered so many hobbies and interests that I didn't have the for time for while I was in that culd because of the hours I used to spend at church/praying/doing private devotions.

[@wasntme5686]

I've had people tell me to "stop using your customer service voice on me" when I default to irate customer mode

[@Sarah-hc6kj]

I would love this as a podcast. Just Jen and Mickey talking about anything.

[@francespowell6923]

Seconded!

[@pb9611]

Couldn’t believe it when I saw y’all in the thumbnail!!!! I’ve had a hard week, this is much appreciated.

[@thornsilverhollysong1715]

Love this collab! I grew up in the 90s and 2000's as a size 10 in women's (I've transitioned to male since, but will wear shoes meant for any gender!) and it was so hard to find shoes. Thank my Pagan Gods for Payless ShoeSource (RIP).

[@thornsilverhollysong1715]

Also when you do Plathville, you could hire James to play every Plath. Take that, copyright claims!

[@mandysubia5059]

I love the you can find a legitimate therapist who also happens to be a Christian and supports your beliefs in a healthy way! I didn’t figure that out as a “liberal Christian” until so late in life. I LOVE my qualified therapist and she’s helped me understand that - and she HAPPENS to be a Christian also. Regardless of beliefs find a therapist who uses scientific approaches - finding one who personally shared your beliefs is secondary! Also your “space or help” also reminds me of “do you want to vent or do you want to solve?”. So many times we cause issues trying to solve someone’s issues when in reality they JUST want to vent. As a foster mom - asking my friends and foster daughter what they’re aiming for has helped us so much! Btw I love you guys together!

[@OpalBLeigh]

Conspiracy theory: maybe Kristin is actually SO anxious that she stays off of social media 😉 I’m one of those people! So high strung I just never read comments, but from the outside I probably look unbothered 🤣

[@catjam420]

your videos about them have a really positive impact on their potential audience. especially with your point about their demographic. it's wild to think about how when i was going through some severe mental health issues related to being trans masc i DID stumble upon girl defined and it sucked me in because I was desperate to know how to be a girl and i was so glad that they could tell me but I was really lucky because I also saw cody ko's thats cringe about them which helped get me away from their content. I think both of these types of videos about them have a positive impact because your really informative, genuine analysis and critique is valuable to actually disengaging with the beliefs and the thats cringe side is good for kind of showing how ridiculous the things they say really come across

[@samalalas]

i’m so happy to see you two collaborating! both such fun creators

[@jessicacaldwell1238]

Thank you so much for the " do you want space or do you want help" part!!!!! I'm married to a wonderful woman with PTSD, and this is the BEST relationship advice I've heard. I so pay attention to yallls posts. It soothes my 'tism (what with my life long interest in various "Christian" denominations and theologies) and garners my attention. Please, please keep up the good work!!!!

[@lilcucumber2350]

Most ambitious crossover of 2022, love it

[@britnicox3929]

YES MY TWO FAVES TOGETHERRRR Also to your point: it took me six tries to get a therapist that was not only responsive, actually followed up, but also had the availability to take me on. It sucked so much being rejected or ignored that much while dealing with my mental health

[@heretoremember9433]

I just watched Fundie Friday's Girl Defined update last night and was hoping for a Collab soon. Amazing timing!

[@angelairidescenceartglass6289]

I was raised by a therapist parent…your discussion about getting “social worked” and “therapized” made me remember HATING my Dad “putting on his therapy hat” when I was a teenager who just wanted to yell. Soooo relate to that one. I mean, he was right a lot of the time, but still.

[@lsmmoore1]

Yep. At least you weren't in an abusive special ed school like I was where the "therapy" turned out to be harmful a lot of the time, but - therapy is one of those things where the person really has to come to the therapy and not the other way around. It can't be forced any more than you can force an animal to be tamed (whether that animal is wild or not - and for some domestic animals, such as cats, rabbits, and small rodents, their minds don't seem to be that much different from those of their wild counterparts).

[@angelairidescenceartglass6289]

@@lsmmoore1 I’m so sorry you went through that. For me was more like I could see him stepping back and going into therapy mode vs parent mode. Made finding a therapist as an adult a bit of a challenge cause I recognize and automatically react negatively to a lot of basic therapy techniques because I’ve seen/experienced them from a young age. Wasn’t him being awful…just one of the perils and frustrations of living with someone whose job creeps in at home.

[@tayberjk2559]

I have a wonderful neutral therapist. She knows that my faith is super important to me and she respects that. It’s very possible to get help and gather tools through therapy in a way that’s not directly related to your faith or religion.

[@iamnotaconcept]

omg both of you TOGETHER ON ONE SCREEN?!!?!? MY HEART CAN'T TAKE IT! I LOVE YOU BOTH SO MUUUUUUCH!

[@catb3787]

I'm so glad this collab happened. I've been so excited for two of my faves to do a video and the way you two vibe with each other in this is so enjoyable to see!

[@Bianca_Arlette]

"This is water." - "This is beer." - I spat my coffee at the screen!! - Thank you for making me both laugh and learn. LOVED this video. 2 intelligent atheist women having a fun and educational conversation. Brilliant.

[@meghansullivan6812]

OMG the duo I didn’t realize I needed??!!! Now that I see y’all together I see how much sense it makes haha 💚

[@jacobus57]

You each, together and separately, create vitally important content. Thank you so much!

[@Cristina-Ortiz]

The collab we all wanted and it's happened!! I'm fangirling so hard right now 🤩

[@theyoutubeanalyst3731]

Dude, I can't imagine watching a Contrapoints video on acid. She has already pretty trippy costumes and backgrounds

[@juliemiller6966]

This is the crossover I have always, always needed

[@jonathan4189]

31:00 that purity culture makes both their sexual desire/desirability and EVERY other man’s sexual desire their responsibility. Fundi culture is a ruthless, efficient, eating disorder factory. Edit: love the convo thanks for making it.