MicroLED problems revealed by Digital Foundry. The $10k Command Center Jensen was talking about

[@landoishisname]

I hear almost every nvidia employee is a millionaire now so it's probably reasonable to him

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Just watch the Gamers Nexus video with the Nvidia cooler guy and see. He has the face of happiness

[@crazyc9326]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Hahaha the 5090 is called a 4090 ti now on reviews😂😂😂 not buying that when i already have a 4090... trash card and nvidia trying to scam people...

[@alpermertsk1688]

I bursted out my laugh when he said EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS lmaooo

[@GFClocked]

Well. To be fair, these were 500k just a few years ago.

[@Anfernee1980]

FOR ONLY ...... suspence........ EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!!!!.... this guy become my first enterteinment channel by far

[@GFClocked]

@@Anfernee1980 yeah i just tell my gf 'wait my brother from another mother uploaded brb' hes amazing

[@leonardodimeo5107]

well last year 77 by samsung 70k so 8k is really affordable micro led

[@zachb1706]

Their main complaints were the pixels were very noticeable which isn’t really a complaint at all. A 160 inch TV is meant to be watched from meters away, your eye won’t see that.

[@Wobble2007]

These pixel pitches are designed to be viewed from several feet away, that's larger than most people's rooms I'd say, great for industrial purposes, which is what it's designed for, not sure why DVLED is getting confused with μLED.

[@hugevibez]

@@Wobble2007 Because these are far finer than commercial DVLEDs, using microscoping luminescent inorganic compounds etched in to a substrate (Chip-on-Board), hence the name microLED, just still a large pixel pitch compared to a 4k/27" OLED

[@BlindEmperor25]

I've watched a few microled wall instalation videos and there is a way to perfectly align the tiles. There are a couple of different companies that have their in-house tiles and each does wall mounting differently, I guess.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I wonder why it was so bad at CES then

[@BlindEmperor25]

@plasmatvforgaming9648 Probably rushed the assembly process because they were limited by time. Huge part of the cost goes to assembly crew, since you cant do it yourself. It takes a lot of expertise to plan everything out, do the installation boards and route all the cables, then set and micro-align all the tiles to fit perfectly together. No point in doing all of that for an exibition piece which will be disassembled in a couple of days, anyway.

[@hugevibez]

Even with a good application there can still be a gap between the panels, because it's needed to pass trough the signals. Newest generations alleviate this with through-glass-vias, but obviously expensive to produce. The best solution would be one large panel, but that seems out of reach for now.

[@s9209122222]

I can't wait to see the QD-EL and QD-Ultraviolet on the market, they are much easier to make than MicroLED RGB TV.

[@zachb1706]

I’m pretty sure there was a Lenovo laptop with a QDEL display

[@Rubed0_o]

QD-UV is still MicroLED 😅

[@s9209122222]

@Rubed0_o Not RGB though.

[@veilmontTV]

​@@Rubed0_obut just one led for a pixel instead of three. It'll make the manufacturing astonishingly easier. I think it solves a lot of problems. They better have a good fucking polarizor on it because UV light causes cancer.

[@Rubed0_o]

@@veilmontTV It will be easier and cheaper to produce, yes, but not by much. It is still placing millions of tiny individual LEDs onto a substrate. And small panels (27-32 inch) will still be very expensive to make. Then there's the whole UV thing, it needs to be tested for safety. I'm now more excited about QD-EL, once they solve the problems with the blue dot and brightness - it's ready for mass production.

[@discorzjr]

0.9-1.2 mm pixel pitch is like 28-20 ppi. That's far from acceptable for TVs, let alone desktop monitors lol.

[@hanes2]

Bad installation and older generation COB manufacturing methods. You need to have very high precision for installing COB. You can’t rush. I’ve was at an install last month where some coworker had rushed a part and I told him to redo it because if you start messing up the problem grows. Edit: I also guarantee they are using Novastar A8s card instead of the A10s Pro because of price as well cheaper processing units since you don’t get those bad grey/blacks/bit issues. And when using Novastar for high end you should use MX40 Pro or better processing unit.

[@BlindEmperor25]

Yeah, exactly what I said. Proper microled installation takes quite a bit of fine tuning, could take hours to align perfectly. This was a showroom piece, so they rushed it probably.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[@princerog9579]

@@hanes2 If they could've, they would've .

[@BlindEmperor25]

@@princerog9579 The assembly process is very time consuming and costly. You need a team of specialists and many work-hours to perfectly align all the electronic parts together before installing the tiles, then taking out each tile thats misaligned and micro-adjusting it to make it perfecttly aligned Since this is an exibition piece that will be disassembled in a couple of days, there is no point in investing so much time and money.

[@hanes2]

​@BlindEmperor25 when I've/we done exhibition pieces like a 300" COB display, while 2 people are building the skeleton, you have a third guy putting plates on and installing cabling, aligning and adjusting as you go. Takes 2-3 days. Sadly, I've seen a lot of people that may installed older LED displays that's rental P2.6, and then think it's similar, but it's a completely different level. If you want COB P1.5 rental, then you look into something like beMatrix LEDskin P1.5

[@jean-micheldupont1150]

At 2000W you can still use it as a heater if you're not happy with the image quality

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

🤣

[@FellTheSky]

8000 usd to get tearing as a feature

[@pietroscarpa2384]

I always thought that those screens were made for publicity purposes, not really for home entertainment.

[@Wobble2007]

They are, seems there has been some confusion about mixing DVLED with μLED, no doubt companies trying to use the hype of μLED(true micro-LED) for their own financial gain.

[@PeterHas]

Definitely the death of a dream for Micro LED. Basically the tech is only suitable for billboards. Maybe owners living in apartments could mount their screen on the wall of the building on the other side of the street for proper viewing distance.

[@winterbeginstechnmore]

Current MicroLEDs dont work without the seams due to the defect rate. Its very hard to place such a high amount of LEDs, and if you had a dead (sub)pixel for example you would need to throw away the display. If you only have tiles you can replace them as needed. Of course there are ways to make the seams smaller, like Samsung showed. But on these Awall models you have to live with it.

[@BlindEmperor25]

@@winterbeginstechnmore other panel manufacturing companies have dead pixel tolerance levels, so I dont see why microLED would be an exception in that regard. They dont scrap LCD or OLED panels for couple of dead pixels...

[@winterbeginstechnmore]

​@BlindEmperor25yes, but the manufacturing process of other technologys allows for the whole screen to be made at once with very minor defect rates. MicroLED at 4K resolution needs 24 million LEDs, and current methods like laser transfer dont have a perfect yield rate. Even with 99.9% yiel you would have a few thousand dead pixels. Tiles are important at a manufacturing level.

[@BlindEmperor25]

@TheRazorbackking Yeah, well true but remember, the cost of manufacturing/yield rate dictates retail price,the tech is still in it's infancy, and bo matter how much they improve the specs, "pick and place" manufacturing process will always be more expensive than woled's evaporation and lcd's/qdoled's inkjet printing. So even if they solve the yield rate completely it will still be too expensive to produce. Pick and place is simply too slow of a process, and money is time. Also keep in mind that you xan't install these tiles yourself, you gotta pay the assembly experts to do the job, hence even more expensive.

[@amariel3310]

Bro I can sometimes see the pixels on my 27" 4K 166 PPI monitor at my normal viewing distance, a 163" 4K microled has about 27 PPI, or that 75" ultrawide has like 15 PPI 💀

[@PahEz]

At normal viewing distance no, you can not see any pixels on a 27 inch 4k monitor, or even on a 1440p 27 inch monitor. You can see them if you go close to your monitor but that's not what a " normal viewing distance " is. Also the PPI isn't really an issue with tv's in general, and especially with microled tv's QD-EL will be the next new thing, and most likely the final " endgame " for most of us.

[@NintenPizza]

How long do you think we'll actually have to wait until CRT Simulation gets updated or integrated into modern QD-OLED/OLED TV's? :P

[@krowan477]

man this was on my wishlist since micro led first debuted.. glad its only 8000 so my total spendings are gonna be 10k+ this month.. great

[@Oliver-ex3bh]

was starving without a post got my snacks for this

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😁

[@theconsolekiller7113]

The TV's look super washed out , plus the matte finish, and that's just in this footage. I like the idea of a tv I can expand size wise, but the picture quality has to atleast improve on OLEDs a little for me to consider it down the line. Maybe it will improve. Going to check the rest of this video now.

[@frdsg8350]

I want to meet the person who is going to pay 8k for 1080p 60hz.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

He'd say: "not everyone can afford 162" bud"

[@Tailslol]

i'm surprised microled doesn't have a diffuser layer just to mask those issues.....just why.

[@demonfedor3748]

Sorry for off-topic but Cyberpunk just released a new patch with DLSS4 improvements available across all RTX GPUs. Brand new neural net for Super Resolution Ray Reconstruction DLAA and Frame Gen (for 40 series only). No MFG yet but will be available after launch for 50 series.

[@robertpitt8418]

Collective - Imagination brought to life. What a wonderful time to be alive. 👍 and if everything was perfect we would have nothing left to complain about ; )

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Beautiful

[@chebrubin]

Best buy is swapping out my S90D 77". It's a early generation S90D 77" from July 2024. How can I be sure they deliver a latest generation panel?

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

There's no way to control what they'll send you. You don't want the latest panels, you want the oldest possible to have a better chance of it being 2000 nits. All the latest Gen ones are 1500 max

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Cosco and Sam have the S90DD and those have a better chance of being 2000

[@ItsAkile]

The underlining tech of MicroLED is so damn cool though so I hope we can get it to be pretty and cool at the same time, imagine covering an entire wall at home

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Absolutely

[@WheeledHamster]

This man's yellow Windows fonts burns my EYES!

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It is actually designed to be easier for my eyes (almost no blue lights)

[@leonardodimeo5107]

in hdr the yellow looks so bright on my LG C3 i can't imagine on a G4 or 5😂

[@MacchiDola]

Honestly I just want a 4k plasma tv

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

There was an 8k Plasma too, I covered it some time ago

[@NintenPizza]

lol. Yes please. And I mean, without CRT Simulation or RetroTINk4K, i wouldn't be able to stomach watching movies on QD-OLED(Forget WOLED and those lousy colours). Sure the perfect black levels and brightness are stellar, but the motion clarity & excess film judder make it that much less natural than watching the same movie on a good plasma, and that's AFTER you correct the out of box black OLED crushing. :P The C1 is a massive downgrade compared to my S60 plasma in nearly every way with the exception of black levels, brightness @4K support strictly for Movies & TV series. A C1 out of the box will have terrible shadow detail crushing, WOLED colours, 100% motion blur(Compared to the 4ms persistence of my plasma), triple the amount of film judder & weaker colour gradation. At least with QD-OLED, you get colours that get close to plasma, better gradation, and supposedly you can correct the out of box black crushing by doing 3 pixel refresh duty cycles(According to the peeps over in the AVS forums.) Pair that with the Current TINK4K, and you'll also be cutting down 58% of motion blur while reducing more film judder than plasma and CRT. The 1080p limitation/cap doesn't with TINK4K doesn't bother me either. That's good enough on a 65" sitting 11-12 feet away distance, again for movies & TV series. There will be noticeably less visible flicker than 60hz BFI flicker too, but i'm worried about are the occasional image artifacts that I've been hearing about. I'd still deal than put up with the stock motion blur & judder with OLED though. :P

[@suni08]

I'm guessing glossy modules would more reveal the seams between panels Also glad you watched df's impressions, more interesting than the generic 'its good, but you can't buy it' we've been hearing for years from tv reviewers

[@walidhannaoui1802]

That tv brand releasing microled like that screams cash grab. LG and Samsung had that same problem but 1-2 years ago, with the tiles being visible. Obviously they’ve both advanced signify but they still aren’t ready for mass production. So that company selling the tech like that is ridiculous and looks more like a giant LED screen for a sporting event more than a 75 inch tv

[@Rafael-rn6hn]

I reckon micro-LED is about 10 years away from actually being a marketable product for the average consumer... if it doesn't get overtaken by something else. Tons of iterations will still have to be made on the engineering of these products before they can truly replace OLED. Meanwhile manufacturers blue-balling us a 240Hz OLED big screen...

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I think MicroLED might never become a consumer tech

[@Oni64]

Maybe the tech is not refined yet. its like early LCD/OLED/Plasma.

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

I knew it.. Micro LED was basically a hype meme, and I knew that the moment it gets affordable people will find all sorts of issues and hate on it.. Micro LED is a projection alternative.. Not a tv.. So the use case is limited.. It is also expensive and there are lots of other options out there..

[@bobo-cc1xw]

I work in display tech. Remember when they said the same thing about lcd, oled as well. Fair there was also sed and others. It will come

[@truthx7]

Crazy that nobody even metions micro led severe weakness.looks like micro led is just a fantasy lol

[@CrashBashL]

Plasma, consumer grade Microled TVs will not be modular 100%. They are like that now because they are meant for Ad screens for companies. Publicity screens for showrooms etc. No burnins (allegedly )and they can be made as big as you want. If you can feed it enough power, of course. They are meant for you to see an Ad walking by a store, as an example. These TVs, for now, are NOT meant for consumers. You won't even have the possibility to feed them energy as you feed a normal TV.

[@ultradius7]

So these are basically modular TVs, damn

[@EverythingPS5Pro]

Great content as always! 😁👍 My entire setup will cost around $5700 USD after PC has been updated with all specs. $10000 USD is impossible to reach honestly 🤣

[@zperdek]

But space between pixels is making black /contrast.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Not at all

[@Dreamroom64]

I got to see the new MicroLED TVs with my own eyes, and wow, they really were a disappointment. They look just like the outdoor digital advertising signs that we're all used to seeing, complete with an unflattering low-res look. I believe they both are the same tech, but I expected a lot more out of a home theater adaptation. Colors looked unnatural and harsh.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

That's so disappointing

[@bardhi09]

Did you see that stretchable 6 inch prototype MicroLED? It looked crazy, the screen it self was bulging forward going from flat to looking like an old bubble screen CRT Some articles were saying this is the future of 3D

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Yes, I saw that on a CES video! That was crazy

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Literally, things pop out of the screen

[@Wobble2007]

This is not μLED (MicroLED), this is what known as DVLED (Directview-LED), μLED has 100 to 1 pixel density over traditional LED's (OLED/DVLED), DVLED has been around for years, and can go up to huge pixel gap sizes like 3mm, μLED is another 15 years away, nothing has changed about that, despite some companies trying to jump on the μLED name bandwagon for publicity.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

So 1.25 is not the real thing

[@Wobble2007]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 It's just DVLED, great for conventions and video walls, not a consumer tech though, was never meant to be.

[@Wobble2007]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 Keep in mind OLED is on average around 0.1818 mm, μLED is a 100 to 1 pixel density over OLED, so you can imagine the DP μLED will have.

[@MrRaitzi]

Micro led was idea because when they came out with it, mocsl dimming LCD and OLED sucked little bit. We have come long way in performance from that and micro Led is not even a product yet.

[@BlindEmperor25]

@@MrRaitziI agree actually. OLED has come a long way when it comes to reliability and performance. LCD with miniled advancements has come an even longer way.

[@BusyWeaverBeats]

I know what these microLEDs need - TAA!

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

🤣

[@ArCeyDu35]

Are you Colombian? I swear I had a Colombian friend back in college in USA and he is so like you lol :) His name was Juan. Juan is that you?

[@Mandi-l1n]

Bruh he screams European

[@MrRaitzi]

Accent is Italian I think.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

🤣

[@robertoalonso8932]

afraid not... he is from Cuba but now lives in EEUU. His name is Ariel

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

Yes he is 🙂

[@crowntotheundergroud]

QDEL will be the successor to OLED. Micro led is practically dead to me

[@sammy10001]

That display is 60hz. Shane lee had an interview woth the wall guy 1 day before ces. Limited to hdmi 2.0 and 60hz

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Yes, that's such a let down, it could be a lot better

[@s4091boat]

MicroOled with pancake lenses is better. Its like 3.5k for Apple Vision Pro vs 8k for TV. And you dont even have to have a wall or house. You can live in a 2x2 room ;⁠-⁠)

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

We need something like that that also works as a VR headset for gaming and from a different brand. I try to look at products beyond the brand to be fair, but Apple is the exception to me.

[@Mroggenland]

If any one is gonna crack the code on micro led, it’s going to be Samsung. I have seen their micro led TVs, and I think the are far ahead in the research. I think their sets are really great and I couldn’t see the flaws you mentioned (couldn’t see any line or whatsoever). But it was a dark room anyway😂

[@winterbeginstechnmore]

Yeah Samsung has the most advanced models. They managed to get to 76 inch 4k already and they actually sell a 89 and 110 inch model. For 130.000€ though.

[@frankiesomeone]

if you get a dead pixel on one of these screens, you could probably just replace the single LEDs that create that pixel

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

That's awesome

[@BlindEmperor25]

Highly unlikely, but you can swap out the tile with the dead pixel.

[@frankiesomeone]

just an assumption on my part of course but if these are all individual rgb leds why not?

[@YTisProMentalillness]

$10k command center _pre scalper/consumer action,_ AHEM. Post - $12,000 command center.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

😂

[@ts8960]

I hope these problems dont exist on microled laptop screens, otherwise the dream is truly over this seems like a big monitor problem

[@van123446]

But which would have a better picture quality ,,, or a g4. By lg

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I'd go G4

[@Brandon_Mishima]

My brother I built a gtx 1080 beast pc for like 1600 back in the day. He is out of his mind.

[@MusicInfected]

i would say 10 years at least for this tech to replace oled

[@ThePepeOne]

I can see it all now... Ariel turns on his 2000w TV and everything in a 10 block radius goes dark!!! 😉🤣🤣😂😂😆 Much like Clark Griswall's Christmas decorations on his house!🤪 Epic movie.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Everything should be fine until I fire up a game and the extra 600w 5090 starts melting wires

[@ThePepeOne]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 🤣🤣

[@ThePepeOne]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 🤣🤣

[@bardhi09]

Ariel, I've been meaning to commentbon this but... are your TV settings wrong or is it just the camera exaggerating? Because DF guys look all red-tinted

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

It looks bad in front of me and worse on camera because HDR is ON on Win11 and the SDR HDR slider is at 0 then the content Gamma is 2.2 and looks washed-out because it only looks right if it is sRGB

[@bardhi09]

Ok that makes sense

[@tariqsalim1115]

I felt something wrong with my screen when seeing this for real😂

[@geminijinxies7258]

Did you say the TV cost eight thousand dollars?! Hmm.. Then I might buy one extra for the bedroom as well.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

🤣

[@DrDoinks]

Entertainment PC command center OVER $10,000?? *I guess Jensen is going to start selling other parts in the PC too* 😂😂

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

The more you buy the more you save

[@Brandon_Mishima]

That pixel pitch is absurd. One my crt monitors has a .24 dot pitch.

[@attepatte8485]

Big TVs with poor ppi inspected from close and not from a couch sitting distance away ofcourse it's gonna "suck" the 163inch one you should look at it like many many meters away lol

[@AexoeroV]

B The Installer have a video with the TV's presented by AWALL Vision, modular, interesting!

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I shared that in the description of the video

[@AexoeroV]

@@plasmatvforgaming9648 cool, I didn't had the time to watch all of your video and read description. Can't wait to know nore about the LG G5 and its new panel

[@GravityPrince]

$10,000 AI Commander Center units deployed, alongside the Nvidia ban introduced by Trump ❤ Refresh rate: 0.02ms = 50,000 Hz, 0.26ms = 3,840Hz Frame rate: 60Hz 😂

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

🤣

[@MIDI-A-LLC]

So having a billboard in your room is a thing now….😊

[@MilosCsrb]

I could get over all that, but 60 Hz???? Deal breaker

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

That's such a shame, I don't understand why

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

If I think of all the negative things about Plasma TVs you might think it is the biggest crap you can get.. Same with Micro LED..

[@badpuppy3]

Plasma TV is the biggest crap you can get by today's standards.

[@LineageStone]

QD Ultraviolet display will be the tech, with a glossy screen, and hit the high nits. As micoLED will not be viable. Ultraviolet LED driving the RGB quantum dots, FOMO has a video on it.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Yes! We had FOMO explaining it on a livestream

[@riptonedwards9175]

Sony showed the world first micro led tv crystal led 2012 it has not moved on the pixels are too large the tech may get left behind for qdel is around the corner

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I think so too

[@dogdimadone4629]

“Only 8,000 dollars” 😂😂

[@veilmontTV]

Only 8k is wild considering the price of the cheapest micro leds just a year ago. Its a shrink of like a factor of 10

[@pacopen6364]

I think people who expend that much money on a tv, only do it to flex on the guests

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Imagine the guess notice those issues and says you should try the 4k TV for $200 I got at Walmart, it looks great!

[@xpoiler6152]

it's too soon for this technology i guess

[@ItsAkile]

$10K PC I got that, I my currency

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

Welcome to Nvidia

[@bardhi09]

I saw that video by DF, but it's really dumb and irresponsible reporting by them They themselves noted that many PCs and monitors and other stuff had wrong settings and that in general attenton to detail in presentation was lacking There is no way in hell a +$100K MicroLED TV on a home setting would ever be misaligned like that but this is CES and they rushed things DF also didn't showcase all the MLED panels since in one of the LinusTechTips videos one of the guys said that in one of the panels he had to get extemely close to the screen to notice the seams and even then it was extremely hard to see them

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

If I go to CES and I see those issues, I'm going to call them out, and if they did a poor job setting them up, that's on them.

[@bardhi09]

That's not what DF said though They assumed that the misalignment was an inherent problem with the tech, when it was just a poor setup This is why I called their misleading reportage dumb and irresponsible They also present themselves as experts and then they make goofs like this which makes it even more annoying

[@davidrubec2759]

Is there any different footage of this from, say, other locations to show this?

[@badpuppy3]

@@bardhi09 When you're at an event like CES to SPECIFICALLY showcase your product (the entire purpose of the event), you think setting them up properly would be the first consideration. It's not irresponsible for DF to simply report what they saw.

[@princerog9579]

These are for billboards and other large advertisement purposes like malls and huge screens outside buildings.

[@GFClocked]

No. Its true that there are similar ones for those uses, but these are specifically aimed and advertised (i mean just look at the page itself how they show its supposed to be used). Its intended for indoor home usage as a tv.

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

This company is pitching it for home entertainment

[@princerog9579]

This year they just displayed it for the sake of displaying something new. Who knows how good it will get in the future but right now thats exactly what it is

[@FellTheSky]

I'm sorry but 21:9 is not a desirable format. They don't sell at all.

[@tartarosist]

Lmao great video

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

Micro LED for sure needs some distance.. Pixel peeping that close IMO is just ridiculous.. Sorry.. If you sit that close to the tv like in your videos Micro LED will never be as smooth as any other 4k technology..

[@plasmatvforgaming9648]

I only get this close for the videos

[@GenX_in_the_wild]

Hahahahaha...