Mindscape 273 | Stefanos Geroulanos on the Invention of Prehistory

Patreon: / seanmcarroll
Blog post with audio player, show notes, and transcript: www.preposterousuniverse.com/...
Humanity itself might be the hardest thing for scientists to study fairly and accurately. Not only do we come to the subject with certain inevitable preconceptions, but it's hard to resist the temptation to find scientific justifications for the stories we'd like to tell about ourselves. In his new book, The Invention of Prehistory, Stefanos Geroulanos looks at the ways that we have used -- and continue to use -- supposedly-scientific tales of prehistoric humanity to bolster whatever cultural, social, and political purposes we have at the moment.
Stefanos Geroulanos received his Ph.D. in humanities from Johns Hopkins. He is currently director of the Remarque Institute and a professor of history at New York University. He is the author and editor of a number of books on European intellectual history. He serves as a Co-Executive Editor of the Journal of the History of Ideas.
Mindscape Podcast playlist: • Mindscape Podcast
Sean Carroll channel: / seancarroll
#podcast #ideas #science #philosophy #culture

[@tookie36]

I love Sean and agree with most of his positions… BUT… physicists are human beings??? Not a chance

[@Bassic]

Great episode - but please make sure to mute (or edit out) the mic of the person currently not talking. The amount of heavy breathing from Sean's mic while the guest was talking was unsettling in this otherwise great episode. Thx!

[@breadfan7433]

Thank you, Dr Carroll and Dr. Geroulanos, for this very interesting interview. It was a pleasure to listen to, as well as a great reminder for all of us to always be conscious of our individual and collective biases.

[@josephemerson6876]

So what are the business secrets of the pharaohs? Well, look the first thing is to acknowledge that the Ancient Egyptian era is so completely different from our own that any cultural, political or business parallels that we draw between the two eras are by their very nature almost certainly bound to be wrong.

[@joshuaneustein9957]

My first encounter with this blog. Mindscape. Sooooo many assumptions .1. the assuption that bias is bad.. 2. that the world is objective 3. that the study of the origins of humans is a science. 4. cavalier definitions of so many vague terms. and so forth. But overall it's interesting because ...because bias is the way we communicate... bias is inherent in language they are the same as incisor teeth in the mouth.. Even the word 'nature' or 'mindscape' is a loaded cluster bomb.

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

This might be the reason why I often don’t really like to watch science documentaries about the origin of humanity: they seem to have too much of an agenda. That’s why I tend to prefer documentaries about physics or cosmology and so on; they seem to be more objective.

[@rayfighter]

FanTAStic closing thoughts on how could we become less biased and therefore more successful in revealing the true nature of the universe. De-dramatising is the word which I found especially hitting. Pretty much de-JPing are pursuit, if I wanted to be very meme savvy. 😅

[@jennydeepable]

Wow I have gained knowledge on so many topics thanks to this show

[@twonumber22]

enjoyed

[@jonathanbyrdmusic]

Love the depth and breadth of this podcast. Thanks for tipping the scales a little bit more toward intelligent discourse.

[@rayfighter]

more compared to?

[@7heHorror]

@@rayfighter Not to put Sean in an awkward spot by disparaging in his comments other podcasters, BUT... 😉🙃For instance I stopped listening to Rogan years ago. In truth I cringe when Sean talks about American electoral politics in his AMAs. He's not the best on every topic but his guests are always great.

[@rayfighter]

@@7heHorror right

[@archielundy3131]

That was so good!

[@user-xh2fg4wo7j]

This episode is interesting to me. It’s like talking about things that I was curious about but didn’t know I was. Thank you!

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

Just to point out one thing about the Indo-European languages: their common ancestor Proto-Indo-European was spoken maybe 6000 years ago, so it’s very far removed from any hypothetical first language. There is no reason at all to believe that PIE is closer to the first language than any random language spoken today. The study of Indo-European languages is very much a real science, so it’s unfortunate that it has become so ideologically charged for historical reasons.

[@user-fs1xo4ph1w]

I always ALWAYS love Sean’s courageous scientific dialogues with experts, especially as they attempt to penetrate the Physics-to-Biology & Biology-to-Physics great-divide. I tend to leave Mindscape episodes with a sense that I know just a little bit more about “how WE got to here” (starting from the Big Bang). I can’t seem to let go of Carl Sagan’s “WE are all star-stuff” mantra - is that scientific truism no longer true? Is it really now about “us” (and our current challenges & mindset) versus “them” (and their particular challenges & mindset)? Who do I thank for nearly 1 million uninterrupted years of “fire” - in its many evolutionary presentations? Who do I thank for nearly 50,000 years of uninterrupted “art” & “language” - in their many evolutionary presentations? At the end of the day, why isn’t Big History (all the way back to Big Bang) still the most scientific & the most powerful way to explain our universe - and “ how WE got to here” - to the next generation?

[@RicardoMarlowFlamenco]

I sort of hoped the story about what people used to believe would have been tempered by some recent discoveries. For example… no need for deep interpretations of the evidence certain people have larger percentage of Neanderthal dna and certain other people have zero. Regardless of bias… it is what it is, no? And right there… that explains SO much with no need to point out the obvious.

[@trevorcrowley5748]

I agree with the evidence-based perspective. Also would have found interesting what the San people and Aboriginal Australians say about us. Apparently they have oral traditions going back 12k years. How has their culture changed in the own words, prior to Western involvement?

[@rayfighter]

ahaha

[@gsilcoful]

Thank you.

[@ehfik]

excellent episode!

[@julianholman7379]

why did Darwin think humans originated in Africa ?

[@danielcook1271]

Wahoo! New Mindscape! Also… First! ;)

[@jonathanbyrdmusic]

Shotgun!

[@julioc.7760]

the broadcasting world lost a star to physics. sean should have been on the news everyday.

[@alisonwunderland5847]

Is there not a more logical argument that the different races of humans developed independently from several species of ape/monkey?

[@rudyj8948]

????? There is literally no shot that several disparate ape species all converged in evolution to make one species, let alone be able to reproduce with one another. What are you talking about about???

[@pilogen]

There isn't

[@twonumber22]

oh dear lol

[@breadfan7433]

At the risk of sounding like a well-known Kermit the Frog impersonator, what do you mean by "logical" and "independently"? Also, I might be wrong, but I suspect that by "developed" you mean "evolved", since you're mentioning species. So, let me define "ape" for you: Basically, nipples + free-rotating shoulders + no tail = ape. Humans *are* apes. More specifically, we are great apes (Hominidae), along with chimpanzees and bonobos (our closest extant cousins), gorillas and orangutans. Gibbons are also apes, just not great apes. This, like all scientific knowledge, is a fact we have discovered by examining evidence, not a deduced conclusion starting from a logical argument, so I don't understand your question.

[@twonumber22]

@@breadfan7433 Are there nipple-less mammals?

[@andywilliams8540]

this guy is boring

[@trevorcrowley5748]

Well I was intrigued by the topic... and your comment. According to Prof Geroulanos' bio, he is "particularly interested in the ways that the concept of the human has been transformed in course of the last hundred years." Believe this means he would be interested in you as well. Take care.

[@SteveShine]

☝️👍