MMICUL: The Problem With Hype, Marketing, & Video Games

[@Toanon]

>video has been hyped up for a week on twitter >it's a video about hype and expectations

[@lilysiandaza4296]

Maybe he did that on purpose🤔

[@Statusinator]

How They Marketed is a series with a narrative.

[@tonjolley6422]

Like a damn fiddle.

[@rosameltrozo5889]

le meme arrows

[@Kyotosomo]

I can now tell my kids I was there for the birth of the MMICUL

[@Andrewexploded]

Ghost in the Shell, immediately followed by Pickle Rick is something I never expected to see.

[@bigdicknigga3746]

this was like a super long bge school presentation

[@FishSkeleton-]

If you're saying that then you haven't seen his multi-hour PCP University Lectures on Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, One Piece, etc., lol

[@kip_c]

Nate: "With every MMICUL theres an ICUL" Me nodding my head pretending to understand: "mhm mhm"

[@apolloforabetterfuture4814]

"You don't invent technology and then figure out what to do with it, you come up with an artistic problem and then you have to invent the technology to accomplish it" This quote summarize the problem Bethesda has had with their last few game releases. New Vegas was better than any of Bethesda's fallout games, Because they didn't try to make crazy technology advancements, they had an artistic intention and they used the technology they had to bring it into existence.

[@supermansdaddy7019]

New Vegas is overhyped and doesn't really do much more than Fallout 3. In fact, this kind of arguing reminds me of the disappointment people had over The Outer Worlds and even Tyranny. I don't know, it's weird to see the internet give certain developers a pass because they're "old school".

[@comfylain]

@@supermansdaddy7019 "doesn't really do much more than Fallout 3" It's just quality over quantity. New Vegas' writing, quests and RPG mechanics are leagues ahead of Fallout 3's, especially in regards to world cohesion and how seemingly minute factors all coalesce into something much more intricate and grand.

[@jadeceridwen93]

Reminds me of how Luigi's Mansion helped push the development of the C-stick on Gamecube to achieve the vision

[@supermansdaddy7019]

@@comfylain Eh. A lot of it boils down to Caesar being a moron, and justified or not, the pass they get for ~being written by Obsidian~ is weird. Meeting the Burned Man is such a fucking bizarre coincidence, too - you basically go to Utah and leave behind more important matters for some random caravan. The Pitt was a lot more urgent than that. And, really, the intricacies consist of glorified fetch quests to ensure loyalty to whatever faction you picked.

[@Dan_Kanerva]

@@supermansdaddy7019 point is NV was still a million times better than anything Bethesda shat out after Fallout 3...

[@brandscape356]

Hyper-realism is the worst thing to happen to video games. But, generally, this is all about us being smarter consumers. Not just for video games, but for everything.

[@thats4thebirds]

I think Gamers™️ are worse than any individual aspect of the gaming industry besides the awful shit publishers do to developers.

[@drifter402]

It's not even close to the worst thing to happen.

[@twincherries6698]

Oh nooo not le heckin Gamers™️!!! So unwholesome my reddit army hates them😡 they're literally evil

[@j03man44]

This is a good attempt to bracket the problem. I feel like for the ideas to be effective we need a condensed 10 minute 'think piece' version of this video that's easier to market and share.

[@dilbophagginz]

???

[@AFYsama]

Nice timing, i Will litsen to this while i draw

[@spych0367]

You need to calm down

[@josesosa3337]

Bro. Thays what i'm doing right now.

[@younggamer7218]

Listen*

[@ct3000]

Same

[@neverpaint691]

[@nickrondinelli1402]

"A bigger cup is not a fuller cup" apportion your expectations to the technology of the art's time, its intent, and the track record of its producers. Does that about sum it up?

[@twenty-fifth420]

Last time I was here this early, I was still taking philosophy classes in another state and watching BestGuy one piece content on repeat. Which…. Wow holy fuck I am almost done and I feel so god damn old how long you been here like 5 years? Damn, time flies during a global pandemic.

[@vazazell5967]

I can't fucking believe it's a hour long video that told me absolutely nothing new.

[@tyloschsosas]

Gotta say I kind of agree

[@crossingtheline2189]

I’m like 50 hours into nier automata right now, and consistently impressed by how tightly packed this game is. In its simple memorable world and theme choices. This has given me more to think about in relation to that and I really appreciate it. Thanks bge

[@Srewtheshadow]

I'm gonna MMICUL all over my friend who preorders every game they feel vague interest in, defends their atrocities, and then drops the game after 2-3 hours forever. We all know that guy.

[@tigerfestivals5137]

Holy shit that's literally my friend too, he does the exact same shit and is usually primarily interested in the game because of graphics.

[@wreday720]

When the quiet kid at school drops a fire presentation Edit: Incredible video by the way my man, hope you know that

[@shotostudios2392]

I Love this video so damn much. A lot of what I've been contemplating this year is Reflected in this, from the Limits of the Human Brain and it's Computing Power to the Ethics of Media Consumption/Production and Consolidating Resources Efficiently. Thanks for the Brain Food, Professor

[@jensvide777]

13:32 "Qualitly" - How fitting.

[@SomeDudeOtaku]

I put this to sensationalism, so much has to be the biggest, newest thing. We are at a point now where we repeat so much stories/imagery in order to start sensationalism, that most media now is the same name, and if not, some crossover

[@vktrlndwll95]

Marketing 101 with Nate "is sora fucking roxas masturbation?" Best Guy.

[@gorcshurut4934]

Absolutely amazing video Best Guy. I'll make sure to show this to my friends, as I've had similar ideas before, but I could never properly word them. So ye, thanks for doing that for me!

[@fluentinoppai6271]

Long form Nate videos remind me I miss hearing him in podcasts more regularly.

[@tomawsomeSaUCE]

the 8-bit rendition of Rope by Foo Fighters was a nice touch when talking about the rope physics

[@ursoanonimo8398]

45:42 This makes me sad because I really miss developers putting out game demos out to let people figure out if they like a game.

[@emmetth3726]

Great videos as always BGE. It’s always hard to hold reservations about new things when your friends are hyped but you’re too engrossed in being burned before to just always going in on a new product.

[@SoftwareNeos]

This kinda thing finally puts in an explanation for my thought process of not just games but "design" in general. For even things such as card games. My problem is that card games don't come up with new ideas or ways to play that isn't just increasing the powercreep of things. Like adding more cards to hand, more ATK, etc... things that can be upgraded with no thought. Compared to actual mechanics. Its kinda like graphics. You can increase that part all you like but it doesn't necessarily change how the game plays. It's just more of something.

[@Ballade90]

Absolutely fantastic video BGE, I legit want to share this with others and friends. The idea is amazing and pretty concise.

[@jnes3736]

I been waiting for this type of video for years. Too bad the Hype Machine won’t be going away any time soon, but we can all do our small part in bringing clarity to our conversations with friends about media.

[@_kenemon_]

After thinking about it a little more- I really wish you could've presented these old ideas in a way that would've been consumable to the people who needed them. As others have said, this video doesn't really say anything new, but the way you wrap it all up is super complex. You'd be better off telling someone "advertisements and promised features don't determine game quality" than bringing out that graph.

[@HippoCrit]

I feel like a lot of these ideas are somewhat accurate observations about the gaming industry but i don't really get much of substance from this video combining them all together. A lot of is is just basic stuff that's easy to figure out. Companies market using graphics as a selling point because it's cheaper than a demo and easier to show to many people. They do this because ultimately it works and they make plenty of money even if it means customers are let down. Pre-orders are bad because it encourages this cycle, companies aren't your friends, etc etc. We agree on these points but i feel something is missing from the general analysis and that's a lack of a clear direction to head in. There is no solution provided and that's fine, because it's a complex set of issues, but there's also no indication of where a solution MIGHT be found. you say the economy is incentivised to extract as much money as possible from the consumer and consumers extract as much quality product as they can from producers and you say that's "simply fundamental to economics" So if it's just fundamental is there nothing to be done? is the gaming industry doomed to continue down this path? I feel like this whole video is shy of a conclusion relating to that.

[@pie6088]

You expecting too much from a bge vid fam

[@piwhip9023]

That’s every BGE video gib

[@mrbanks456]

I listened to 2 PCP episodes about "HYPE" I KNOW why it bad already.

[@MegamanStarforce2010]

it's the classic 'intellectual' conservative conversation "hmm there's a whole bunch of problems here that are all possibly linked to something- nah nah but it's just how society is ya know" it's capitalism guys. it's really not that deep.

[@zachmurray101]

@@MegamanStarforce2010 it's the classic "intellectual" leftist conversation "Capitalism bad >:(((("

[@fkarenn]

He did it again. Main channel BGE videos are of the rare kind, that deserves to be actually watched (with my eyes) intently, and rewinded and rewatched until a complex idea or formulation is understood.

[@kokirikid817]

Holy crap this guy still makes online content. Good shit

[@NawidN]

I can't believe you put PONG: THE NEXT LEVEL music in this video. That brings me back.

[@Peter-vj7bs]

Does anyone know if Khantehnt is officially an abandoned project? TBH the only thing I really miss from there is the seasonal all anime quick dives

[@zanzaklaus2496]

Yeah it's over.

[@nickdalia1222]

Digi went off the deep end

[@hasuotaku]

No Nickelback look at this graph jokes. The restraint is powerful!

[@ZachStarAttack]

What an incredibly constructed and long video essay (Love the PCP university lectures by you and others btw, i sang the one piece song about that afro pirate and whale with you :D)

[@danielkotulski4785]

I enjoy this video. Nate is one hell of a presenter and critical thinker. Even with points I disagree with him on his reasoning and opinions are always thought out. He is good at explaining things. What I like about this video specifically is how tuned down the humor is. There is some but this video has more of an educational feel to it. Like a professor teaching a subject he is passionate and serious about.

[@dr.feelgood9916]

Great work, always love to see your videos

[@aguinaldoferrer6491]

So glad to have you back

[@RetroGamerKevin]

Now THIS... is epic Also good to have you back, @BestGuyEver. Been a while

[@SkyBungis]

This was an absolute banger Nate. What a truly epic gamer moment.

[@haldir108]

This is auseful way of thinking about it. As tool for convincing the passengers of the hypetrain to jump ship, it is not really leaving the runway.

[@classclown6ya]

the industry side of games is getting insane. It feels like 60-70% business, 30-40% we actually care about making quality products. Honestly that might be too generous. IDK, ever since 2010 i've been kinda cautious when it comes to gaming. games are just made by way too many people and cost way too much to produce. Basically... -NEVER pre order anything -BOTW 2 will not be the greatest thing humanity has ever made.

[@forsenfan69]

This is the case with most industries - not to say that justifies it - but it shouldn't be too surprising that gaming is less about, well, gaming, than it is about revenue and business.

[@classclown6ya]

@@forsenfan69 fair

[@jhonviel7381]

ive been waiting for 2 years for botw 2!!!! wtf mostly bc i beat botw on wii u and my switch is useless with out botw2

[@_kenemon_]

Welcome to capitalism, where games aren't media but products to be sold to as many people as possible, with as much mass appeal as you can possibly fit in.

[@NekoPerro]

Such a good use of the Rufus Welcoming Ceremony track. Great content as always.

[@eskimobob117]

Great video, definitely the most comprehensive take on the issues that plague the modern video game industry.

[@Robersora]

47:45 this antagonistic relationship between "producer" and "consumer" is predicated on the idea that games are mere products - which is the core issue that generated that mess of a situation you call out in the first place.

[@WorstGenWorkshop]

This was the perfect hump day noise

[@zayicza]

Best Guy "B. G." "Brad Garlinghouse" Ever, I already liked your video this far in, you CAN'T just bring up the FF5 experience being GOAT'd, I can't like it enough!!

[@twincherries6698]

mmicul as relevant as ever

[@WatchClock99]

THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING

[@keen96]

This might actually be my favorite analysis of anything ever. insanely great job Nate, Godspeed

[@TheCreepypro]

it is great to finally have a term for this cause if you have been gaming for awhile you know what this is we just didn't have a name for this till now

[@Epsidawn]

Hooray!!!!!! It is EPIC to see you back!!!!!!!!!

[@SexyPants]

Hooray for more BGE main channel content!

[@MiQuentin]

God damn bestman, good vid!! Yes Nate yes watch!!!!!!1!!

[@slinger8839]

Awesome video! I don't know why so many people are giving you a hard time for not revolutionizing games discourse

[@jorgi6961]

Thank you

[@jpickens189]

I feel like in RPGs in particular the progression of technology and production values has resulted in a regression in the complexity of storytelling systems.

[@Winckypoo]

I think this is the most important video about the current vidya industry

[@Notorious_Grey]

My guy BGE coming in with a well made essay video 😎 appreciate you

[@Kin0]

36:10 wow i haven't heard that bunker theme from watch dogs in literal years

[@muffinzetta3670]

No offense Nate I love you, but honestly this video just seems to be a lot of common sense or stuff that people who like games discussed ten years ago. it's a good video but to me, it just seems like you're saying a bunch of stuff that tons of people have been saying since forever. like none of this seemed like an original take at all.

[@C_Ranked]

While I think that’s fair, I also think it leads to good discussion and awareness, with recent games like cyberpunk to me it seems like a majority still haven’t learned their lesson with hype culture and I feel it’s gonna be the same with games like botw 2 and starfield

[@muffinzetta3670]

@@C_Ranked It's just I could pin point more than a dozen exact times in the last 14 years where this video completely unchanged would fit perfectly in. To me not a single word in this entire video is like a new take. All of it is stuff I've been hearing and seeing since the ps3 came out. The disappearance of the middle tier game has been an on and off discussion since 2010. although this all could just be that I'm like ten years older than Nate, and what's oldhat to me is new to him.

[@supermansdaddy7019]

You'd be surprised at the amount of gamers still rabidly defending CDPR or having dumb console wars.

[@muffinzetta3670]

@3_4_700 well yeah, especially when you complain about unoriginality in the video

[@muffinzetta3670]

@@supermansdaddy7019 I might be the asshole here but this video just seem for and by someone that doesn't play many games

[@dekaidoku]

Good Video Presentation. Especially the Formula Portion. Nicely Presents an Idea that cant be easily understood for some pretty easily. Tho I wonder why the mases have not understood this "shiny hyped up" dont mean quality so easily..

[@jackpranger3743]

hey this is a pretty good vid, but uh, real quick, is Po. D. Cast dead or no?

[@sleepynougat918]

I think I like the alternate title works better for a video this long. I didn't think I would have clicked otherwise on a hourish long video about the problems of hype and videogames.

[@professionalspecialist5780]

Deadly Premonition AND Crosscode? Truly a man of culture

[@THekahugo]

THE RETURN IF THE KING LETZZZ GOOOOOOO

[@tonjolley6422]

I didn't know I wanted this type of content but damn is it good content. Great work bge

[@initialparody2521]

YEAHU BEST GUY EVER IS BACK BABY

[@JJLiew]

43:25 hey this looks cool, what game is this?

[@AmberAmour]

Blasphemous

[@animemaniac2]

If your expectations are low then you'll never be disappointed if a product is bad and pleasantly surprised if it's good.

[@ogscherm6745]

Dope vid BGE I love you

[@alwayshome2610]

this was a really good video, and I one hundred percent agree with the idea of MMICUL, however, I do have an issue with the idea of "if a game is not fun, why bother?" as it sets up the expectation that all a game can be is "fun" when games can be so much more than that take, for example, a game such as Pathalogic, a game that was designed from the ground up to be as unfun and as painful an experience as possible, yet people sing its praises as being one of the greatest games ever made, and proof that games can be art I think Hbomberguy said it best "should games be fun? yes. but is fun all a game can be? no"

[@lunasperidot8760]

pathalogic is like a pretty fringe example. I think what he means is that in most cases games strive to be fun in some way to their players. And even with pathalogic, there is a sort of 'fun' in trying to balance resources or play carefully. In the hbomberguy video you mentioned he says there were many times he was blown away by the game or was blindsided by a turn the story took. Those moments could also be considered fun, because its all subjective.

[@yewwowduck]

FYI Middleware refers to something distinct in software, kind of confusing to add it into this context.

[@saborsora4938]

Part 3 just made me want to say "Please go outside"

[@gusmangamer]

new bestchannelever vid just dropped

[@CrimsonPhoenixBen]

Good job, you obviously put a lot of hard work into this, but like other people have said in the comments it doesn't feel like you've really brought anything new to the discussion. The majority of points you've made about expectations and marketing have already been taken note of for a long time. For me, I felt the individual examples you used were more interesting. Discussing pinpoint mechanics in games, how they prioritized them during development, and how they were used in the end product was far more stimulating on the old noggin than the overall message of the video. I think unless you're brand new to gaming or just a total braindead consumer, you should already know where to set your expectations. And if you are somehow in those two categories, there's a pretty good chance you're not going to sit down and watch an hour long video about it. Sorry Nate, much respect, I still enjoy watching your content and will continue to do so. One last thing, I do think selling t-shirts at the end of the video deflates it as a whole. Also at first glance the thumbnail looked like a collab with a bunch of different KZbinr faces. Props to the artist, they made nice stuff, it would have been nice to see it throughout the video.

[@Perty42]

Great video, Thanks

[@PreAlphaTonyC]

bge-kun ur mixing up the insides of my brain!!! it's so deep

[@trueblueclue]

Let's go. It's been a while.

[@Yamartim]

Interesting video, but a bunch of the ideas it brought felt very superficial and (just like in this comment) are barely explored enough, for instance: - Is it really just about fun? What about games like pathologic, nier, or undertale genocide route, where the games are intentionally not fun with artistic purposes - How about the "middle class" games that do exist? Most Nintendo games are that basically and they do insanely well - How about the fact that even though the gameplay in final fantasy XV and musou games isn't where the innovation is these games still appeal to people in their own different ways?

[@Dan_Kanerva]

> "what _about games like Nier or the Undertale genocide route , where they are intentionally not fun with artistic_ purposes" Jesuschrist , talk about going on a tangent because semanthics... "fun" as in "entertaining" , not just "having a big smile" while playing them . You can be entertained by movies like the Green Mile or Grave of the Fireflies despise them being soo incredible tear jerking pieces of media. > "how _about the {middle class} games that exist? Nintendo games are that basically and they do insanely_ well" They do well because Nintendo is that park with fresh air in the middle of a polluted city... they are the exception , not the norm . It needs to become more of a norm. > "how _about the fact that even though the gameplay in final fantasy XV and musou games isn't where innovation is at , these games still appeal to people in their own different_ ways?" The point wasn't that those types of games shouldn't exist , but that they shouldn't become the majority . Companies products are going to shiet because they replace previous mechanics that MORE PEOPLE LIKED IT in their games , for new ones that are there just because they are the corporative trend

[@jeanfrancozaratemarcial7916]

@@Dan_Kanerva Your perspective on life may be a cynical and rather bitter one

[@Dan_Kanerva]

@@jeanfrancozaratemarcial7916 try again buddy , i am rather positive... not being a cumsumer wojack does not mean being "bitter"

[@williamt2513]

You should give some gdc talks about this, that way the developers will actualy listen

[@evelyn.exe_]

30:21 what’s that game called?

[@reviewspiteras]

I do think this is a useful concept, i would like to do a video about it too but in spanish. May i have your permision BGE?

[@GamerSisters]

Thanks for actually ringing a way for all of us to actually put words on why so many critical gamers, myself included, just aren't as satisfied with AAA games lately. Like it's not just Cyberpunk77, that was just the worst one in recent times, like it's been a while. So many times I've felt burnt out on seeing same-y AAA games with Maximum Graphics(tm) but no heart in the game, I've just felt bored of it for at least the last 3 years. And now I can explain why without using weird metaphors and instead actual meaning lmao

[@hunterdoyle3581]

Very interesting 👌

[@VagrantDune]

This is a really good video, man.

[@hvnman_f4]

who is the guy at 42:23?

[@anshagrawal254]

Damn that was an amazing video

[@roduna4153]

Yo best guy ever mentions FFV, now that’s epic

[@CopeAscetic]

Excellent bideo 👍

[@ZZaGGrrUzz]

audio quite quiet

[@guttsanfun4587]

Great video

[@JonathanQShrimpling]

Excellent video BestGuyEver, very well thought out and well put

[@abaque24]

I like how the ending is basically visual representation of how high level complexity is not the greater goal. As an example, Super Mario 35 was basically the same game as Super Mario Bros 1, but with the added complexity of battle royale mentality, and chaotic mechanics that randomize the enemies in the level based on the performance of other players. XD

[@dadenelson7570]

Statistics, Psychological Study, and video games. This video is just walked up to my mental dashboard and laid on all my nerd satisfaction buttons.

[@makkusuunfilwin1852]

Doing gods work.

[@ultispidey99]

The long awaited

[@blakechildress944]

This feels like I'm watching a Tim Rogers video.

[@noneedbruh5215]

gaYming

[@BestGuyEver]

Get this guy OUTTA HERE