‘Mr. McMahon’ Netflix Doc: Behind the Scenes With David Shoemaker | The Bill Simmons Podcast

[@leopoldvonwinterfeld5801]

As a lifelong fan, there was nothing really surprising in the doc. I understand that it's supposed to reach a wider audience and that's totally fine. I just think with all this access, there could have been more profound angles on Vince and how his power-hungry mind works. I think the doc is still very well produced and worth a watch. Cheers to you for making it!

[@michaelb3927]

I haven’t seen it yet, but I think having Vince on board with the project was a mistake, you always get a better view when the person who’s featured is loosely attached! (Excluding the last dance) like the Ric Flair 30 for 30 left out a shit ton of stories that could’ve made that doc a classic! Unfortunately only when the subject is dead do they show all the cards!

[@timmutohfan]

@@michaelb3927 the andre doc was full of misinformation and left out what a terrible racist andre was. bill aint the dude for this.

[@misterf7299]

Well said!👏

[@multi-florum]

on the other hand, my wife found the first two very informative.

[@timcogan82]

I think the value of the doc for people who know the history is just seeing Vince himself in a scenario in which he or one of his stooges doesn’t have final edit.

[@MercDawg]

Very well done documentary fellas! My wife and I just finished it last night. She wasn't even a big fan of wrestling and watching it made her want to go back in time and live classic moments. Amazing documentary.

[@CD-gk9ix]

The doc never asked follow up and tough questions. They just said “ok, cool”

[@CaerEsthar]

About CRAZY shit too. Causally dropping things like abusing women like toys, shitting on heads during threesomes, and incest and breezing past it.

[@KK-pm7ud]

What are those questions?

[@CD-gk9ix]

@@KK-pm7ud don’t be disingenuous. McMahon is a slime ball.

[@KK-pm7ud]

@@CD-gk9ix It's not disingenuous to ask simple questions.

[@CD-gk9ix]

@@KK-pm7ud you can "do your own research"

[@pg-mr7uc]

As a total wrestling novice, I enjoyed the hell out of this doc. I definitely see where it falls short (limited access to real life and default to interview narratives of subjects) and the lack of follow up to McMahon’s current situation felt inadequate. Also they didn’t ever talk about Wrestlemania X7 which, to my understanding, is regarded the best one

[@seancushnie974]

All of my expectations for this was high, and as a wrestling fan… I’m kinda disappointed. I feel like I’ve seen this many times already.

[@stiker0068]

Yeah, if you’re a fan we all know the territory history and all. I thought there would be more inside stories of Vince doing shady shit, but, everyone knows not to talk shit on the boss. Most telling was when they asked “what’s his legacy”! The only guy that didn’t get paid a decent wage answered. Ha

[@davidloftus3771]

It seemed like a well made Darkside of the Ring.

[@GKA11111]

I don’t think this documentary was for wwe fans. It was for tragedy porn fans

[@brickz001]

Its not for wrestling fans 😂😂 it's for everyone

[@SpyderXTX]

its all rehashed stuff they have talked about before. not much new stuff.

[@nedschneebly5424]

I really wish they had followed Vince around for like a month seeing how he interacts with people everyday. Would have been a lot more eye opening than just sit down interviews where he rambled on making no sense.

[@spoogtastic]

As a lifelong die hard wrestling fan,i really enjoyed the doc. Did i know most of the stuff? Yeah but that wasn't why i was coming to this anyways, to see how vince would talk about stuff blew my mind.

[@ianprosser]

This. Well said.

[@TheThomasBlack]

This documentary is nothing u can’t also find on KZbin or any basic cable documentary.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Until Vince is dead or civilly/legally convicted of something, the makers of a documentary like this have a lot of legal restrictions to work around so they don't get sued.

[@plusmoore]

@@TheThomasBlack there’s a book called Ringmaster - the doc is just a skimmed through version of it

[@ReneTrejoJr]

This was a documentary made for people who aren't constant pro wrestling watchers. People like us (who read dirt sheets....know who Meltzer is) knew 98% of this information. Not mad about that because any new news that came out, we'd know about. Overall, a good showing to those who aren't too familiar with wrestling but heard about Vince's crimes from the news.

[@sjdhgydhfyrn1023]

Just finished watching the whole "MR. McMAHON" docuseries. Episode 6: "The Finish" covered the events since 2022 as well as can be expected, considering most of the interviews were filmed before it all took place. There was a lot of filler and oft-repeated lore, but it's basically a 6-hour history of WWE since the 1980s, with a focus on Vince McMahon and the McMahon family. I found Episode 1: "Junior" the most interesting, as it covered Vince's early life and origins in the business (although little is known about his childhood, as Vince won't really talk about it). My favorite tidbit: When Vince stated his favorite wrestler growing up was old-school heel Dr. Jerry Graham, and that he apparently stole his infamous "strut" from him. Just keep in mind this disclaimer, at the very beginning of the documentary: "THE MAJORITY OF THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEWS, INCLUDING WITH VINCE McMAHON, WERE FILMED BEFORE THE SEXUAL MISCONDUCT ALLEGATIONS WERE MADE PUBLIC."

[@billcrotts5456]

The greatest trick David Shoemaker ever pulled was making Bill Simmons think he's a legitimate expert in wrestling history

[@Mark-eg2yd]

Who is he?

[@billcrotts5456]

@@Mark-eg2yd he's just this guy who did a wrestling podcast years ago on ESPN who Bill took a liking to. Simmons knows basically nothing about wrestling and David impressed him. I noticed in this video Bill hilariously says he's about an 8 in wrestling knowledge and David is a 10. I'm an actual 8 and I assure you David is like a 7 and Bill is a 3

[@supermaheu]

100%

[@tjr2109]

@@billcrotts5456 Dunning-Kruger effect out in full force. The doco lays it bare for all to see, outside of the WWE PR they've been fed over the years Shoemaker & Simmons' knowledge is laughable. Treating Hogan or Vince as creditable sources for most of this nonsense is absurd. Approach them as the conmen they are. Having the people who made 'Tiger King' make this showed their level of insight and the intended audience. I feel the same way about shallow Louis Theroux efforts to cover similar topics. Superficial fluff.

[@braziliantvhd2768]

Lighten up carnie, he's never said he's an expert in wrestling history, he's got a life outside of fake wrestling docs

[@freemind6954]

If Gorilla Monsoon were alive he would call Shoemaker a fountain of misinformation! 😂😂😂

[@DJ_alanandres]

He would just cut him off multiple times with "would you stop!"

[@KampKenny]

Whoever selected the on screen visuals did a great job. Everything else about this documentary was lacklustre. This really just made me miss the attitude era more than anything.

[@bobc2043]

Wow I’m one of the die hards and I really really like it. I really wanted them to ask him anything about Randy Savage but I’m enjoying it.

[@brewer921]

That was a severe omission.

[@KK-pm7ud]

​@@brewer921What is the omission?

[@brewer921]

@@KK-pm7ud Any mention of Savage.

[@KK-pm7ud]

@@brewer921 Nothing special that stood out. Owen and Bret and Benoit. Very small mention of Eddie. They seemed to stick with the high points to give you a picture of the man. Not every misdeed is necessary to define a person.

[@brewer921]

@@KK-pm7ud What I'm saying is that there was zero mention of Savage, and that is a severe omission.

[@Dylangreen2122]

Halfway through. I never had a doubt this would be great. You guys did a really good job

[@Mark-eg2yd]

It's rubbish if you know anything about wrestling

[@freaky3536]

@@Mark-eg2ydttn

[@Molson-xg9hs]

So excited to watch this…such a towering subject that got a dramatic twist during the making of…can’t wait!

[@adamawesome-o6776]

It’s really good

[@Hulkamania4eva]

100% a doco for casual fans

[@MrML4L]

casual wrestling fans know alot of this stuff. Its for the outsiders.

[@rexxpac2]

I was glued to the TV, great access and behind the scenes as a fan from the previous eras, great to get Vince's perspective, well done, was more about the history and they sprinkled in negative shots throughout. 7/10, seen and knew 85-90 percent of info but the 10-15 percent and access is always awesome

[@adamawesome-o6776]

I’m on episode 4 and this series is incredible! My era growing up was the attitude era so I didn’t know about all that happened behind the scenes in the 80s and early 90s. Episode 2 was disturbing.. lots of dark behind the scenes I didn’t know about.. but I’m really enjoying this 👍 Also not a die hard fan but I have big time nostalgia for the stone cold, the rock, DX, Chris Jericho and the EDGE era! Ect. Didn’t know much about the prior eras so again..really enjoying this. 👍 👍

[@KK-pm7ud]

The first episode was very good. Will watch more later. The breadcrumbs you drop about the type of person Vince is shows more than enough about him for us to get context if we want to go deeper on some of the stories.

[@NoCaping]

As a life long WWE guy I still love Vince then now together forever

[@jay_ay_why]

Can tell this is great just from first few minutes of the documentary.

[@hectorabreu2502]

Amazing doc couldn’t stop watching

[@alislefthand]

After episode 1 this unlocked so many things I need to find on KZbin like the Vince talk show. Cindy lauder story line

[@TheOnyx76]

The documentary is a really nice nostalgic piece that took me back to my childhood. You can't please everyone and to get to answers people on here wanted from Vince is completely unrealistic. Well done.

[@CaerEsthar]

The documentary was honestly pretty disappointing. Don’t think it was interesting enough for a wider audience (my wife fell asleep for 3 of the 6 episodes) and the few new things were breezed over way too fast in favor of shit that didn’t matter. Expected more from Simmons.

[@youngzeus87]

I thought the Andre doc sucked too. Idk why people expected different

[@VirgilZandig]

That 3rd episode was God awful. And Shoemaker makes stuff up.

[@youngzeus87]

@@VirgilZandig Yeah Shoemaker is the least knowledgeable expert on anything I've ever seen. He has some of the worst takes followed by incorrect info. Simmons isn't much better on wrestling.

[@LenGott8345]

Funny, this is exactly what I expected from Bill. Which is why I didn't bother with this. He is a noted WWE fan and I figured he wouldn't crush Vince. This was aimed at the uninitiated, not the 'we know what it is' crowd who could pick this apart 8 ways from Friday. Given the grip that Vince has on folks, I don't think we will ever get a truly hard hitting documentary on him in our lifetime, unless it's done by someone who truly doesn't give a shit and wants to get this out there.

[@stevengrvp]

What was passed over?

[@Heyyo57]

They still could have served wrestling and non fans at the same time since non fans supposedly don’t know anything about vince and wwe

[@GSum-sq1dp]

Excellent documentary, left me wanting more. Can you release the raw interview footage that was cut? Is that even an option?

[@jfreck]

I’m the wider audience. An Australian who’s never watched much wrestling but I’ve known of hulk hogan, the rock, the undertaker. Was a good watch and I enjoyed it but as I’ve seen online there feels like some missing pieces of the story that an easy Google helped find more dirt..

[@ryanmerical2103]

Only 4 episodes in but I’m disappointed the doc sorta skipped right past the Jimmy Snuka murder of his mistress (whom you referred to as his “girlfriend” too) and didn’t appear to have asked Vince about it AND you half-heartedly discussed the possibility of Vince “having a hand” in the lack of any meaningful investigation. And if you did and he refused to discuss it should’ve been shown

[@VirgilZandig]

Yep, not even Vince saying, "That's ridiculous." Lame.

[@stiker0068]

If you listen to this podcast it sounds like Vince didn’t answer much or provide insight on any story/questions

[@tadams9735]

This is the number one thing that's bugged me, though I'm only through the first two episodes. The Dark Side of the Ring episode about Snuka made a very strong case that McMahon bought off the local cops, and they just hand wave it with "oh there are rumors he stopped a murder investigation" and didn't even ask Vince? WTF.

[@JustMeELC]

​@@tadams9735 What would be the point he wouldn't say anything regardless 🤣

[@KK-pm7ud]

I think you're missing the point of the documentary. Many of these things are implied. The through line across the whole documentary is that Vince only cares about being successful and is willing to do anything. I didn't know those details about Snuka but it is not surprising at all. Those precise details aren't necessary because if someone wants to know more about the details of how ruthless Vince was, you can go learn more elsewhere. There are more than enough examples to show how much Vince is willing to do to get what he wants in the documentary without having to beat people over the head with it. What happened with Owen and wrestling the same night. What happened with Taker and letting him continue to wrestle with Brock. The Benoit stuff. How the company changed when it suited the company. How Vince was willing to sell sex and violence to kids to win a war with "Ted Turner." Vince taking the title of Trish immediately after she didn't do what he wanted. The story Stephanie didn't want to tell but Vince was willing to share. And probably most telling, how much he was willing to let his own son risk his life in battles with Taker and Angle. Of how narcissistic Vince was that he wouldn't even entertain buying the UFC for Shane to run even after the dumb decision to create the XFL. All in all it's a great documentary about who Vince is as a person and shows his story and who he is. Could they have added more? Yes. But it's not an encyclopedia and they were trying to get a broader audience to pay attention. I thought it was well done and gave you quite a good picture of the man. A great introduction to the WWE ahead of Raw going onto Netflix.

[@user-uo1qr6vn1q]

Jim Cornette & Brian Last exposed “wrestling expert” David Shoemaker’s bullshit claims after the Andre special. Can’t wait for them to dive back in on both these guys after this airs.

[@aceloco817]

Was wondering who this foo on the right was. Corny & Last does mention his dumb azz on their 1st episode review! 😂

[@braziliantvhd2768]

Cornette and Last are both liars

[@uzi978]

Not like Cornette is a reputable source though, he's as Carny as it gets, his opinions have never evolved, and he thinks he knows more than anyone else about what's good for wrestling. Guess what, he doesn't. Only the real die hards still worship him, the rest of us know he's totally out of touch.

[@DJ_alanandres]

​@@uzi978sort of like saying only the die hards still listen to and respect Bill Belichek or Michael Jordan, and that their opinions on their sport are out of touch. I suppose in some way it could be accurate to say that, but also it's probably more true that they are experts and relevant more than 99% of all people who speak on their sport. But it doesn't mean they are always right. But cornette isn't like some jobber with random opinions. He is arguably one of the top 10 knowledgeable humans on the planet in terms of professional wrestling. Whether or not anyone agrees with his takes are independent of his relevance IMO.

[@marvingamez9057]

The documentary was well done, the actual cutting together, production, was well done. It’s not going to unveil too much if you’re a diehard fan, and that’s kinda all you’re gonna get until Vince dies unfortunately. Too many people still don’t wanna speak up, so we’re not gonna get crazy revelations. Don’t say you dislike it because you already know the story, there’s 9/11 documentaries every year lol. It’s just a different production of a story.

[@JustMeELC]

YES THANK YOU!

[@MrML4L]

It was advertised as a full profile sort of tell all. It was 100% recycled shit with a few times of vince saying dumb ass shit. It was a waste of time. Well made sure so watchable yes, but learned nothing new, just heard some updated spins on old stories.

[@marvingamez9057]

@@MrML4L unless you invent truth serum you’re never going to get a full tell all from Vince. And yeah, it was made for the casual fan, not for the diehards. Like they said.

[@MrML4L]

@@marvingamez9057 This was made for non fans. Casuals know most of this stuff. It was really shallow.

[@KK-pm7ud]

​@@MrML4LIf you cannot read the subtext of those interviews with people and of Vince, then that is your issue. There is new content in there. Especially the interviews.

[@coochman23]

Had to be Bill Simmons that chose the "Dookie" scene from No Holds Barred....would bet anything... & Thank you for choosing that scene🙏🙏👌👌One of the greatest scenes ever from a crazy movie but still a fave of mine & I'm betting Bill has an affinity for that classic just like me. I quote that scene all the time any time something smells, im doin the Hulkster in that scene. I laughed my ass off....so thanks Bill Simmons for that little hilarious nugget, if it was indeed u😜😜😉😉🤫🤫

[@stiker0068]

Bill and Co, it seems like you captured the consensus on this podcast. Thanks for explaining. If you see the Warrior hit piece all talent was not used make their own decision. It’s so obvious up to Hulk admitting his promos were all Vince. Biggest mistake Vince did is selling it and not leaving it to the fam. It will move on with him. Turning point was after Wrestlemania 6 the a big gap until 20 years on

[@JustMeELC]

NOBODY made their own decisions it was ALL a script with storylines decided far in advance!

[@Kinogotiate]

you'll learn more about vince from a random episode of jim cornette's podcast than the doc.

[@cam8868]

As someone who follows wrestling it kind of was a waste of 6 hours. It was a bunch of stories that have been shown before just compiled together. That being said it was well made and understand the appeal

[@mikeross1442]

6 hours of my life I will never get back. I already knew everything in it.

[@JustMeELC]

​@@mikeross1442 So... not everything has no info & alot is just compiling the info together with good production

[@josereyes1148]

I didn't watch it yet but my hopes for the documentary have been crushed by the comment section. Following a huge scandal by an average, run of the mill documentary is a major fail. It's either the perfect time to release it or the worst time to release it if you have no information that will grab people's attention. It apparently was the worst time to release it.

[@DR.64A9]

It's a solid doc. Yeah the information isn't new, but it's still enjoyable.

[@matthewweiss8579]

I love your work Bill, but most of this information has been known for years by wrestling fans even if you aren’t that invested. Now for the wider audience I guess, but all of this is an easy google search.

[@KK-pm7ud]

"It should have been Ricochet." - This sums up Wrestling Reddit perfectly.

[@therealpeopleofvancouver]

This whole interview sounds like an apology to people watching the doc that they didn't actually make something worth watching.

[@KK-pm7ud]

It's a good doc

[@kevinneely9878]

Seeing there was an episode called ‘Screwjob’ was such a bummer. Thats been done like ten times. It feels like a cop out. They shied away from breaking any big angles and stayed safe

[@adamtk421]

I loved it!

[@markleshane9314]

Why did they skip the Vinnie Lupton and Jimmy Snuka part with the briefcase and pay outs?

[@bogeytmf]

You didn’t interview Jim Ross??

[@lestressedjames1120]

DROP THE UNRELEASED FOOTAGE

[@eddysell83]

Doc was disappointed. Didn't go on anything we didn't know

[@JustMeELC]

But many people DIDN'T know some of it lol

[@danielmaschio5284]

Why was there nothing in series about Chyna? Her story was important, I was surprised her angle in the HHH/ Stephanie situation wasn't discussed.

[@carloslozada470]

HHH water spit ? Groundbreaking

[@Nodnarb518]

It’s hard making docs like this because it’s all well tread territory that wrestling fans know about. Nothing really new added. But I can see how it can be interesting for those who don’t follow the business of sports entertainment.

[@chrisschell90]

put out the evil kneivel stuff!!

[@cholland7680]

Literally dark side of the ring without commercials

[@sj4632]

Vince will shit on this doc like he shit on that poor woman...

[@NoCaping]

Poor woman my azz she was paid for services rendered tired of these women and the m2 bs she was fine until the money stopped

[@1307PSON]

I'm a lifelong wrestling fan but still really enjoyed the doc unlike a lot of the moaners on here. It's not aimed at the 1% that follow all the news and watch all the docs/shoot interviews. It's aimed to appeal to the mainstream and if you havent heard most this stuff it will be quite shocking and informative. Chill out wrestling fans, the stereotype of us being obsessive and never satisifed is all clear to see in many of the comments 😅

[@blackholesupersloth3276]

Great series 👏

[@wmbaze08]

Yeah dead on with that analysis. Anybody who's been a long time fan isn't gonna see much new in here. It's still interesting to see from a new perspective. I'd love too see that that stuff that didn't make it into the doc and if they'd had other people interviewed because it felt a little lite on that.

[@Heyyo57]

The fact that there were no archive footage that haven’t been seen before when you had a wwe library access

[@JustMeELC]

So you wanted entertainment not s documentary Got it lol

[@mrdozey7361]

The "Mr. McMahon" series felt like any other WWE produced series, everything in the series was public knowledge and if I were to compare it to any episode in the 30 for 30 series it's pretty disappointing. Their are no revelations or really even fresh prospectives on such well trodden ground. If anything this oddly felt like Netflix trying to clear the air before they start their WWE programming.

[@tjr2109]

Doco was a mess. Ironically, a big uncontrolled steaming mess. For anyone reading this unsure about watching, save yourself the time and go watch 'Darkside of the Ring' or even browse parts of youtube if you want to experience multiple better rendered versions of the same trotted out WWE PR/Wrestling stories than this. Most of which also aren't accompanied by many factual errors, borderline idiotic levels of needless spin or vastly lacking in multiple unasked/edited out obvious follow up contextual questions. For someone (Bill) who's entire brand is caring about what impact the mix of sport and culture has on society this was maybe the weakest most simplistic end product Simmons could've produced. I legitimately came in expecting not much, and got even less. You had access to WWE's entire library as well as the guy himself before Vince was basically forced to go underground and this is the best you could do? How is it even possible that as multiple industry changing groundbreaking stories were happening in real time about your documentary subject the filmmakers still somehow managed to depict or contribute virtually nothing of interest. Seriously. Bad job by you.

[@ikeyman3]

Felt like I wasted 6 hours waiting for some payoff.

[@Sled27don]

Thank god I came here before deciding to watch

[@KingBirdy]

​@@Sled27don only the last episode is worth watching tbh

[@tjr2109]

@@Sled27don Yes praise be to Bathyphysa conifera. And thank him often.

[@aceloco817]

Only good thing coming out of all this is Corny reviewing the episodes. He atleast gives us some other aspects that weren't mentioned.

[@pabl0sauced0]

At first i was worried this doc would try to glorify vince and gloss over all the bs he did or was involved in, but im glad the entire story was told.

[@KyleJoseph-vo6vp]

Does affect you at all

[@MrBgood84]

The entire story was not told. Lets also be honest the chick was cool until Vince stopped paying her. Just saying

[@chay770]

“vince bad” story while x1000 a business that was known as carnival entertainment is not balanced lol

[@RIDGEMATIC]

Vince is such a compelling super villain. Unbelievable

[@darcyrossiter]

Have watched the first 4 episodes so far. I'm a child of the 80's so it was fun to remember things like "closed circuit" viewings of the original Wrestlemania and how we would wait until the VHS copy of it would come out to watch it at a friend's house or Saturday Night's Main Event and how big a deal it was for WWF to get on NBC on a Saturday night or Cyndi Lauper and Captain Lou. Wild stuff. Enjoying it but realise that it won't be that interesting for the diehard fans of today.

[@jkranites]

Sadly shoemaker is a bit of a fraud. In the Andre doc he said a lot of BS. And during this doc he also made a lot of stuff.

[@kalreeve]

I'm through most of it, and it's good, but they totally glossed over the Jimmy Snuka situation. They gave that situation and McMahon's likely involvement scant attention. Also, wasn't WWE more culpable in Owen Hart's death? I feel like there was not enough scrutiny on that.

[@jordansteward8031]

Shoemaker being one of the “experts“ should tell you everything you need to know about the documentary. What a dolt…

[@Heyyo57]

The whole narrative about this documentary was made for non wrestling fans who don’t know wwe or vince that’s why there are so many footage of stuff that has been in old documentaries is a terrible take because you still could have served the fans and casuals at the same time since the casuals don’t know if those never heard before stories have been told before either way,you are contradicting your self,you could have served both and 6 hours was too short

[@uzi978]

It was weird how no one could really answer the question, What is Vince's legacy? Everybody they asked really had to sit and think about their answers. You won't find a more complicated man, that's for sure.

[@joeibarra4134]

It was awful!!!! It was more of a documentary of the history of WWE

[@Matthew_Davis]

“What happens over the next week or so?” Simmons asks. The answer was/is A BIG FAT NOTHING. Nothing because this wasn’t about Vince McMahon. The ‘B story’, as Simmons put it (the 50 year history of pro-wrestling), was undoubtedly presented as the A story despite all expectations being the complete opposite. I didn’t watch this to see YET ANOTHER ‘history of the WWF’ story with a vast majority of the narratives being from that WWE/Vince McMahon perspective (ie not at all fully accurate). I wanted to know about Vince McMahon, the person. I’ve learned more from a 15 minute Jim Cornette podcast clip than I did in the 6-part piece. Is it supposed to be ‘controversial’ because we got a 20-minute epilogue dropped in that felt completely out of place and tacked on? Well it wasn’t controversial. I appreciate the target audience (ie NOT wrestling fans) and I appreciate the effort that was put into this project and don’t mean to minimize the work, but from a final product/execution standpoint on the subject of Vince McMahon? Big fat huge disappointment. Also, lastly, I know Shoemaker is Simmons’ ‘wrestling guy’ and while I’m sure the guy knows more than the average Joe Schmoe, he has a history of getting the facts wrong and revisionist history when it comes to pro-wrestling. I don’t think it’s intentional and that he’s blatantly lying but somewhere along the way, he believed bad info and now he goes on shows saying things like Andre The Giant was a touring heel attraction. lol. Guy is not the wrestling historian he thinks he is.

[@stiker0068]

Good doc. It was fair. Not a hit piece. The McMahons tried covering up the “Montreal ScrewJob”. Vince couldn’t pay the contract but still wanted to come out on top. Warrior only stood up for himself and got torned to shreds.

[@brokenkayfabe]

i find it hilarious that both sides are complaining how it was unfair.

[@Adkb123]

I liked the doc. I’m no wrestling expert but I listen to cornette, cvv and takers podcasts on occasion. I thought it was good and pretty fair. Vince is a scummy guy but certainly the best promoter of all time. A visionary and a tyrant. A great man to some, a monster to others. We all contain multitudes.

[@arkangelarkangel1302]

I'm watching this show, and giving you all the credit in the world, BUT TO BE HONEST AND FAIR, didn't learn anything I haven't already seen in THE DARK SIDE OF THE RING TV DOCS. 😮😊 infact those docs go into greater detail, then your doc.

[@SLICKSTARADIO]

I liked the doc. 👍🏽

[@anthonylynch4737]

McMahon could be a threatening scary guy when the cameras were turned off !

[@timmutohfan]

the andre doc was fumbled so poorly i cant watch this. bill doesnt know pro wrestling well enough to tell any of the stories, neither does anyone hes worked with.

[@aceloco817]

Yeah, who the heck is this foo on the right that's "so entrenched" in wrasslin? Never heard or seen him before. 🤦‍♂️

[@timmutohfan]

@@aceloco817 he mightve been involved with the other 2 wrestling docs simmons produced. he might be the guy who said andre was a "touring heel in the 70s". which is false factually and makes no sense in wrestling logic. that line made me turn it off and i never went to finish it and wont consume any of bills wrestling content.

[@timmutohfan]

@@aceloco817 yeah that is him. He's a know nothing

[@plusmoore]

Welp, at least Bill knows the doc kinda sucks

[@damonscoleri736]

This doc is fatally flawed. The tone is entirely wrong throughout given the severity of the 2024 allegations. It isn't sufficient to do a "balanced view" of Vince and then slap on ten minutes of news footage at the end telling the audience that the guy is a monster. If that's all they could get because the access to everyone dried up after the allegations then it just shouldn't have been released.

[@KK-pm7ud]

If you need them to beat you over the head with it, maybe you should just go someplace else. The first episode is enough to show who Vince is. The rest is just additional information in the story.

[@brewer921]

Bill says his wrestling knowledge is 8/10. What a fool.

[@timmutohfan]

mine is a 4/10 and bill cant see me im so far ahead of him.

[@brewer921]

@@timmutohfan Love it. I would say the same for me.

[@timmutohfan]

​​@@brewer921an "8/10 wrestling knowledge" wouldn't be shocked to learn Gorilla Monsoon was set to own WWF once Vincent J. dies until Vincent K. made his dad an offer. Which tells me Bill didn't know Monsoon owned part of Pittsburgh with Bruno or Puerto Rico with Jovica.

[@timmutohfan]

​@@brewer921I'm not flexing on Bill Simmons here, he's just not the guy for this.

[@timmutohfan]

@ReedMiller-z6n is making documentaries filled with inaccuracies a badge of honor? That's what happens every time he makes one about pro wrestling. I will also point out, you just said being able to speak intelligently about a subject isn't a badge of honor..

[@Bjb1031]

Randy savage and Roddy pipper don’t exist according to this doc.

[@FredDurst701]

The only time anyone has heard of David shoemaker in the wrestling business is when Jim Cornette made an ass out of him for lying on the Andre doc.

[@LenGott8345]

I read a pretty detailed thread about this and it's nothing I don't already know about Vince. I'm a lifelong wrestling fan and I've heard most if not all of what they touched on. Vince is to me, the most celebrated cult leader in American history. His rap sheet alone is enough to get anyone locked up with the key incinerated. Bill is a mega WWE fan, so I didn't see this being some scathing repudiation of Vince and all the shit he did across the last FOUR DECADES. In a lot of ways, I believe Vince is similar to Jerry Jones. Both have their greatest accomplishment that doubles as their greatest failure. For Jerry, it was winning a title without Jimmy. He hasn't gotten out of the Divisional Round since. For Vince, it was successfully monopolizing the industry for 2 decades. He ran fans off, lead to an upstart promotion not only starting but being more successful out the blocks than anyone could've expected. He changed a bit but after a set point in time, his failures outweighed his successes but due to the fact every talking head can't stop glazing him for past success, it isn't hit on like it should. Vince quite literally dropped a body on PPV and kept the show going. He had multiple interactions with women onscreen that likely took place off it against their will too. More NDAs than any regular person should have. He is a morally subterranean individual who is who he has shown himself to be consistently, yet people choose to be willfully oblivious to it.

[@bertmustin]

I think the doc had to be either more of an expose of Vince or more the story of Vince and the WWE. There's going to be crossover at points but if you go in expecting one thing you won't be disappointed the other isn't discussed often.

[@ansoscran6818]

Liked the doc.

[@stophoaxing345]

Malik Nabors is the greatest wide receiver in the history of the league. He’s like a Jerry rice with Randy moss and Tyreek hill crossed with Calvin Johnson, except taller and faster with better hands. I’m glazing! Don’t forget, I said the same thing about sequin Barkley..,slimmins is an effin joke 😂

[@Deans-jm3uf]

I’m only two episodes in. I think hardcore wrestling fans who have watched and read about wrestling over the years will have a different opinion than those who don’t have as much knowledge on the subject. Personally I would have liked more content on Vince’s childhood and early days working with SR

[@DriveforFive07]

It's fine, not surprising seeing wrestling fans fail to see it was made for a wider netflix audience.

[@Heyyo57]

I wonder what he cut at 14:04

[@markgibbons9891]

Interesting doc, enjoyed it. The end of the documentary where McMahon talks about the Mr. McMahon character vs his real personality is truly frightening. There is arguably not a lower form of entertainment available. It is not surprising that McMahon is a broken, shallow, egomaniac and yet talented enough to take this "art form" to some sort of elevated status. It is sort of like Elon Musk, arguably the most significant builder of new companies of all time - yet a just a completely emotionally broken person.

[@akshit318]

People complaining, that they already knew the story.... No you didn't, all you knew was 3 hand account.... This is the first time from the horse's mouth

[@cal9784]

It's definitely not the first time Vince has talked about his own life in interviews.

[@dannyprovalone5110]

WWE: McMahon 2006 doc, The True Story of WrestleMania 2011, there's plenty more wrestling docs Vince has done. TSN interviews were more in depth than this poor series.

[@joelanthonyalvarado6947]

The comment section is killing this doc lmao

[@JustMeELC]

Know nothing know-it-alls gonna whine lol

[@CB394]

The documentary wasn't what I expected. They didn't mention that Vince has ADHD and Dyslexia and they didn't mention what happened to him at Military School. It felt *VERY* WWE. compared to the Andre the Giant documentary, the Mr McMahon documentary was **PAINFUL** to watch.

[@scoots2087]

Should have been called "The history of WWE" that's all it was, nothing ground breaking

[@GMHSVE]

Who the fuck is this guy?

[@NxFxKW]

Netflix just payed billions for the rights to Raw… did y’all really expect this to be a tell all?

[@bitw434]

Makes sense

[@dannyprovalone5110]

I thought they were going to try to make Vince look bad and show it's a new company now. The filmmakers failed at really making Vince look bad.

[@stiker0068]

Vince wanted his story to be like Ric Flair’s known to bed down women. You can tell he was conflicted and he just expected you guys to tell that story.

[@petehunter8355]

Impossible to believe that Vince and/or WWE did not have a say in the Final Cut

[@uppercut1988]

WWE signed off on the final edit. NO WAY they would have let this be ground breaking. Nothing new it should have just have been aired on A&E.

[@user-uo1qr6vn1q]

Just to be clear, the Andre the Giant Documentary was mostly well done… but David Shoemaker, who is leaned on by Bill Simmons for his wrestling “expertise”🙄, was a huge mistake. In that Andre doc, this “expert”(Shoemaker) made a bunch of complete BS comments. For instance, he claimed that in the 70s, Andre was a working heel throughout the territories, who would be consistently matched up against that area’s top face. I mean, does he try & make this stuff up, or is it just things he’s heard over the years? Cause he certainly wasn’t a fan before his own conception. Especially today, it’s not that difficult to find out that is BS, & it’s a shame a guy like Simmons apparently doesn’t have the time, or interest, to either fact check the talking heads he employs, or just hire ones with actual credibility.

[@HB-zk7ms]

They predicted all the comments 😂. Best barometer on the quality of this doc is to watch with a non wrestling fan or someone who hasn’t watched in at least the last decade. I recommended to a friend, he and his wife watched. His wife thought it was really good. They ended up binge watching it…

[@Heyyo57]

They still could have served wrestling and non fans at the same time since non fans supposedly don’t know anything about vince and wwe