Murderhobo Won't STOP Attacking Party Member | r/rpghorrorstories

[@Nyrufa]

"I'm not allowing PVP." "Fuck you, I'm PVPing. Now what happens?" "You don't get invited to the next session, because I am not allowing PVP."

[@fred_derf]

I'd just add, "you get booted from this session"

[@3volution636]

@fred_derf I would've taken it a step further and banned them altogether. It was obvious after the 2nd attack that they're a problem player. And there's no reconciling that.

[@KertaDrake]

Well... At least that DM stuck hard to his no PvP rule and wasn't one of the ones who says no PvP, then allows it anyway.

[@Xylarxcode]

I never allow pvp in my games and I employ a simple rule to enforce this. You get one warning if you're attempting pvp. You try it again after the warning, you get kicked out. I've never had to enforce this rule. I've never had to deal with unwanted pvp at all, in about 10 years of playing.

[@happybatty5142]

yea it's nice to see a DM with a backbone in one of these stories

[@benwillems8584]

PvP only if both players explicitly agree to it

[@Kirk9019]

​@@benwillems8584 this is how I do it. Consent is required from all involved parties, or PvP doesn't happen. Period.

[@KhaoticKatarin]

Had someone attempt pvp in a game I was playing. DM made him roll damage. He took that damage. I was a level 1 wizard and he rolled max on a d4, I would have died lmao.

[@chrisnihil6452]

"I refuse to work with an evil person!" *attempts to murder someone while he's helpless, completely unprovoked*

[@andrewparsons2391]

DM: "Wrapping a white robe around their body and a pointed hood over their head, the Paladin wanders off, still ranting about how holy and righteous they are and harassing anyone with dark skin that they meet with death threats..."

[@akun50]

Dm: "They proceed to take a long walk off a short pier."

[@beastwarsFTW]

DM: "You are now a knight of the Burning Cross."

[@schizoidmeme5470]

@@beastwarsFTW DM: A subsection of the Brotherhood of the Swinging Rope.

[@nunyabisness1979]

@@beastwarsFTW okay but knights of the burning cross sounds like a legitimately cool name for a faction like a group of paladins who became disillusioned with the churches corruption but still believe in it's holy cause and ideals.

[@exemida]

Both those sound very interesting up until you realize what they imply and then it just gets really freaken dark. Like I could see those sect names being in like dark souls or blood borne.

[@Dingobabee]

Time to take Luxia's paladin powers "You're attacking an innocent you swore to aid"

[@johngardner4096]

A friend of mine is a retired Marine who DM's. For paladins that have fallen off the strait and narrow, he borrows from his background to describe the offender as standing in front of their god on a pair of yellow footprints. Another late, lamented friend had a nifty way of informing paladins that they had erred rather grievously. That DM explained the paladin that they just started getting sick. "But paladins are immune to illness!" "Yes, they are!"

[@VestedUTuber]

Not sure what edition they're playing but that isn't a thing in 5e. RAW Paladins don't lose powers for breaking their oath, nor do Clerics or Warlocks for defying their patrons. But what the DM could do is require Luxia to reclass to an Oathbreaker. Any actual removal of powers would be homebrew rules, and bringing them into a game mid-game could cause more problems than their implementation would solve. (also, not all good-aligned deities are actually _good._ ) DM should have just kicked Luxia's player after the first incident.

[@Dingobabee]

@@VestedUTuber I forgot that 5e made the oathbreaker subclass instead of removal of powers But she should be shunted to oathbreaker

[@Heavenlyhounds96]

​@@DingobabeeOr just made a fighter. Cause even oathbreakers have wicked powers. Whats a paladin without their powers? A Weak unskilled fighter

[@raziel710]

They weren't a paladin... The only paladin mentioned was Lucien's backup character, Luxia was a battlemaster figther.

[@overseerpjoe9477]

The funniest thing I find about the first story is that one of my first characters was a Lawful Good Paladin who went out of his way to redeem or give second chances to people, and ended up marrying a Drow woman.

[@pianotm]

One of my all-time favorite characters is Rilla, a lawful good Drow Oath of the Redeemer Paladin.

[@funnyblog100]

One of my favorite characters was Benjamin Jacobs( Real name is Gaelin Morvyre) he was a chaotic neutral college of whispers bard with some levels in rogue. He was a fun gimmicky bard think greatest showman style. But he quickly became terrifying and deadly due to having both levels in rogue and the sharpshooter feat. Safe to say he wrecked quite a few boss fights.

[@Theokal3]

Honestly the moment that player ignored the no pvp rule and rolled anyway I would have told him "No", then threatened to kick if he persisted, and then banned him.

[@3volution636]

@Theokal3 Same, I feel this DM was too nice after the 1st attempt. I would have giving a warning first, and then banned them after the 2nd. Because I can see the writing on the wall that they're a problem player. I have no tolerance for bullshit and rule breaking.

[@Fixti0n]

If anyone in my group would act like this, i would force their alignment towards Chaotic Evil so fast.

[@joshuawiener5003]

"Chaotic Neutral" is not evil. Nowhere in it does it say evil.

[@theyaden]

Exactly. I'll admit I do cringe when I hear Chaotic Neutral because so many take that alignment to behave the way the Paladin did though.

[@northernstar39]

I have this Chaotic Neutral Barbarian but hes listed that way because hes technically Chaotic Good, but he has the soul of a Black Dragon trapped in a necklace that keeps trying to take control of him.. so.. Chaotic Good vs Chaotic Evil, I used Chaotic Neutral as a sort of middle ground.. though both the barbarian and the dragon were closer to being Chaotic Neutral by the end of the campaign

[@demervalaugustodacunha1954]

In the old versions and to a certain extent even in 5e the Drowns are described as an intrinsically evil race, of course most of the campaigns I played no one stuck to this and a drown could be good even coming from "Underdark". but from the IRL messages he sent I believe this guy has mental issues or something.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@demervalaugustodacunha1954 One of the most famous drow was litterally someone who broke that rule.

[@iank472]

There's a difference between being a fair DM and being a pushover DM. If a player harasses another player, is warned to stop and continues to harass them then that player is gone. Thanks to letting Luxia keep up the aggression he was showing the DM almost ruined the game for Lucien. My advice is give a warning, then kick. No ifs, and or buts. Do not harass players at my table!

[@schizoidmeme5470]

Exactly this. Also, rolling without the DM telling you to roll? Yeah, FUCK that noise. I'd literally have the Paladin's OWN GOD smite them for being a shit. (Not even a LITTLE shit. Paladin is KING of Shit mountain!)

[@Taygon45]

The first warning should have been in character creation and the kick while they met in the guild

[@3volution636]

@iank472 Same, I have ZERO tolerance for bullshit and rule breaking. 1st time? A stern warning. 2nd time? Banned. Especially in the cases of harassment. This DM was too nice, gotta put your foot down once in a while.

[@3volution636]

@schizoidmeme5470 This made me laughter 😂 King of SHIT mountain. Love it lol.

[@unluckyone1655]

Yeah, Luxia is definitely a classic case of lawful stupid paladin.

[@nelsonpina1797]

Racist too

[@youtubecensorship842]

​​@@nelsonpina1797 not really. Please leave your real world baggage at the door kid. Stop devaluing the word racism by applying it to everything. You're only helping actual real world racism by doing so.

[@Lans32485]

Nah, just Stupid Stupid.

[@honestkyn718]

Yo is that a lamenter's Pfp?

[@unluckyone1655]

It is! My favorite chapter

[@TOPACE31]

It never ceases to amuse me how in stories like these the paladin is the backstabbing murderhobo and the edgy looking drow is the reasonable one. What's less amusing is the hate spam Luxia sent Lucian. Thankfully that bastard got his comeuppance by bring reported and barred from other campaigns. Also, props to the DM for not enabling his behavior by allowing PvP and for kicking the little turd to the curb when he kept trying to do so anyway. As for giving him that ultimatum of making Luxia the character more tolerable of Lucian or rerolling, I don't even think that was an option considering all this happened in session one. Either way, hopefully Lucian gets her life together so she can come out of retirement because she sounds like a wonderful person to play with.

[@AmonDevilman]

Maybe because the edgy looking drow knows they're playing a game and the paladin is almost delusional.

[@therealmaizing5328]

I got the impression that Luxia hated the player as much as the character. Maybe more since he sent her those horrible texts.

[@TOPACE31]

@@therealmaizing5328 I wouldn't doubt it, especially considering the fact he was after her about dual classing as a bardlock. He was nitpicking everything about her character, and from the sound of it, would keep doing it no matter what she would play until she was gone.

[@Taygon45]

NGL my Drow characters would have happily obliged him and killed his racist ass.

[@7thsealord888]

This Luxia clown lacks the self-awareness to comprehend that HE was the problem. The best we can hope for is that, eventually, he matures enough to feel genuine embarassment about his actions.

[@rifter0x0000]

Someone who claims to know about drow should know that elves NEVER sleep. They can't even be put to sleep! It's a major feature for them. They do rest and meditate, but for only 4 hours a day if they do it at all, and they're still aware when they do it. So you can't sneak up on a drow in their sleep and attack them. That's never been a thing.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Elves can actually sleep if they chose to, but that's it and sometimes if they are greviously injured, like deaths door type deal they might sleep.

[@corsaircarl9582]

Would be like trying to do the same for Warforged.

[@DahLekKnight]

I played an albino Drow once. His goal was to pass as a surface elf and convert marginalized surface elves to the worship of Vhaeraun.

[@NuclearCharm]

I have a Drow Warlock character that uses Mask of Many Faces to pass themselves off as a Wood Elf Wizard (they can do so because they have the Pact of the Tome)

[@schizoidmeme5470]

Please tell me you still kept the red eyes so people seemed a "little" off put, only for you to charm them...? I'd LOVE that.

[@Taygon45]

I would love to play with you with my Eilistraeeian characters. Even if their worshippers don't get along Vhaeraun and Eilistraee get along now after she spared him

[@kou7191]

Luxia sounds like either a 10 year old, or a genuine troll/griefer. There's no way he was also always rolling above 17 on his pvp attempts

[@superiorrule34]

Unfortunately their are people who can only get joy by having someone as a punching bag.

[@Xylarxcode]

If your roll isn't seen by anyone but you, it's not a legit roll. If you're playing online, there are plenty of sites you can share where rolls can be revealed to the party or done behind a screen, if it's a secret thing. A roll you do at home, behind a mic isn't a real roll, no matter how high or low it rolled.

[@finnmchugh99]

​​@@Xylarxcode like dice bots, that's the best way to roll online cuz each roll is visible on the chat to avoid those app roller screenshots or pics on the dive on the desk and in-person if you lift the dice before the DM sees it then it doesn't count.

[@kou7191]

@@Xylarxcode Yeah, but there's not always a way to disprove it. By the way the story worded it though, it implies the party knew those rolls were bs anyway.

[@AmazingAutist]

Catch the ending. They're a religious nut bag.

[@teirdalin]

Drow racism is so strong in the Forgotten Realms that it even applies to players. Honestly though if a new player was thinking "Drow looks awesome" I'd just suggest a moon elf instead.

[@jefthereaper]

I feel the solution is a DM that clearly sets a "no PvP" rule. And hostility in the party only allowed if it really would make sense for the characters, but with the intent to de-escalate. Then, negociate/debate between the players to why there would be hostility between their characters and plan ahead to how the situation could improve. I find it extremely important as I love exotic and weird character races and builds.

[@dracokaleb1239]

Virgil and Dante could also be references to the Divine Comedy (aka Dante's inferno and the followup books) And given the person's... want to bring up the devil and other such things I'm thinking it's more divine comedy reference.

[@Mel-Kore]

That is what I was thinking too when I heard that comment. While a DMC reference is fun - it was definitely Divine Comedy considering Virgil and Dante in that

[@theclash24]

It was 100% this reference

[@finnmchugh99]

I was thinking that too... Even so Virgil in the Divibe Comedy wasn't a devil but a ghost who was guiding Dante safely thru the 9 circles of Hell... So I have no idea what Luxua was implying there lol XD

[@LeRodz]

Yeah, i thought that too. But wouldn't be the Drow Dante™ be searching for his Beatrice? Guess the person accusing the player just didn't know/care.

[@DanaOtken]

Could be a reference to the video game adaptation?... which I have not played but understand tends to mess with the cast's characterization in order to turn the protagonist from "the greatest poet of the present and future extending into all eternity, who has been chosen by God to tour all the eternal realms to tell of them to the mortal world" into a demon-butchering badass. I mean, that's very unfocused if it's referring to the original work, where Virgil, the greatest poet of the ancient world trapped in Hell for eternity for his pagan beliefs, was just sent to meet Dante to ensure his complete safety traversing Hell.

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

Problem player: DM said no evil characters. OP: Understood, they aren't evil 😃 DM: Actually, they CAN play evil characters so long as it doesn't get in the way of the party/adventure. Problem player: I slit their throat in their sleep on suspicion of them being evil! They either have 0 self-awareness, were just using the "rule" as an excuse, or both... Probably both.

[@VestedUTuber]

Nah, people who play paladins like this know what they're doing and don't care, because they think paladins are supposed to be played like this.

[@lockwoan01]

I'll admit that I played a Tabaxi Dhampir Rogue in a party that had a Mountain Dwarf Paladin, who realized that I was a dhampir and not just a human-sized cat when I drained some blood out of an enemy and managed to heal from said drinking - It was a Nat20 with nearly max damage. But, given that the other two were an Orc Fighter and a Bugbear Artificer, he was the odd one out. Thankfully, we were, mostly, good. I mean, we saved the farmer's livestock from wolves, stopped evil cultists, and rescued some hostages.

[@Saajix93]

I recently stopped playing with a group after a really bad night. So up until then everyone got along, no one argued or bickered, and the dm was mostly fair. This one session changed everything. We land on an island and we make food, we all failed our survival and nature checks. Like no one was rolling above a 10 with bonuses and advantage and bardic inspiration. Our dice were set to kill us. Anyways we got drugged. My character developed an addiction by choice. Later we leave the island and my character gets high in his room. Another pc metagamed, and went looking for me. Made it clear they weren't ok with it. They stripped me of my Armour, weapons, and gear/money. They then threw it all off the ship, and the whole party was OK with this. I quit right their and told them that isn't fair nor funny and they crossed a serious line.

[@Taygon45]

Playing an addiction is one thing but stripping a character of everything is another. The worst I would do if my character disagreed with another PCs addiction was force you to go cold turkey on the boat ride. Not much of a choice really if it was something of a raft.

[@PaladinGear15]

It's pretty common for players or DMs to single out a player because of their character's race, probably the biggest examples have been with Tieflings. In the actual description of Tieflings it's like "Tieflings are sometimes looked upon with suspicion and discomfort", but some players and DM's take it waaay too far. I've heard of players using good aligned characters tying up that one player after taking away all their weapons and throwing them into rooms they know are trapped 5 seconds after meeting the Tiefling, and DM's having every shop or tavern turn them away at the door as people throw buckets of urine on them in the streets while town guards refuse to help.

[@unluckyone1655]

Same with changelings

[@Taygon45]

I primarily play Eilistreeian Drow. The other players have grown to like me, sans the Tiefling who is a legit worshiper of Cthulhu so I don't mind not being liked by him, and the DM has gone out of his way to show that people are scared of or disrespect me, but don't say much because they think I'm a prisoner of the party. And I let it roll of my back because that's what Eilistraee teaches. Their are exceptions. Like when a shopkeep that specialized in making very beautiful miniature instruments listened to me play a harp they had made. He even gave me a discount because he wanted me to continue making music with it. And a minor quest starting character called me kind after I said we would help him get a sword back that he was charmed into stealing, and not for money but because it was the right thing to do.

[@somebody4952]

"I only wish I wouldn't see you now!" "Then leave."

[@Troublethecat]

To be fair she can't leave due to the thing the party signed at the start of the game.

[@vortega472]

Look at Lucky, telling it like it is. So handsome and charming. In the first story I would have banned the player immediately and told them to grow up.

[@shadenox8164]

"I fire my bow." "No you don't." "What yes I do." "Nope the second I see you grabbing your bow I grab your other arm and pull." I'm not normally one to mess with other players, but come on party don't just stand there.

[@Heavenlyhounds96]

If i was a player with a Martial or Warlock (cause Eldritch Blast), i wouldve turned that bow to splinters. Technically not PVP. :P

[@jamesmaclennan4525]

Seriously that first story would suggest that it was the player who was the problem not the Character. I doubt any alternate would have had a different attitude.

[@edwarddeguzman3258]

Agreed

[@spoonge6682]

Funny thing is drow, to my knowledge, are literally just elves that strayed from corellon and took Lolth’s side. Unless something was changed about drow in that campaign they are almost the farthest you can get from a Devil.

[@mentalrebllion1270]

The drow one just makes me sad. And just generally upset. My first character I played in a campaign was a drow. I played this race because I wanted to tell a story of being disconnected from ones perceived culture but also wary of building any connection with it. Basically my drow was born and raised in the surface but faced all the usual preconceptions of drow that he would be wary at times with certain aspects of society (like town guards, etc). Now, he wasn’t a brooding sort. Despite his shyness I played him a friendly and committed to being helpful to anyone and everyone, but especially to those they befriended. He was a sweetheart and my party adored him (something that makes me very happy to this day given he was my first character). So hearing about other players of Drow characters face such negativity is absolutely heartbreaking. Many of those I know who have also played drow rarely play them as anything evil, often their story being that they are just trying to make the best of their circumstances. So it hurts a bit to hear other players stomp on that for their personal enjoyment and prejudice. That’s just my opinion.

[@Taygon45]

May I tell you the good word of Eilistraee?

[@exemida]

Title was all I needed to see to feel the same pain. We had a guy who would lie about his dice rolls in the earlier years of Roll20 and also had a habit of attacking player characters needless to say it ruined the fun for everyone else.

[@l0stndamned]

I very much agree with you that the DM should have done more and sooner in the first story.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

7:39 Vergil and Dante from Devil May Cry are named after the Virgil and Dante from the Divine Comedy, better known as Dante's Inferno. It's a 3 part series where the poet Virgil and self-insert Dante Alighieri journey through all the layers of Hell, before Dante moves on with other guides through Purgatory and Heaven. Coincidentally, all the people of history and myth that Dante did not like were in Hell, and all those he admired were in Heaven, or had spaces reserved for them. Basically, it's a long Italian poem that is rooted firmly in Catholic and Christian theologies. It's really weird that the Paladin in this horror story would keep referencing stuff like that and "The Devil", as though Italian Catholicism and the singular Devil exist for certain within the fantasy world of DnD. Given the private threats he made that were also religious in nature, I think he's some kind of bible-clutching (but not bible-reading) nutso who wields religion like a weapon irl.

[@Heavenlyhounds96]

On top of being a racist bag of useless fertilizer, since the character wasnt even a Tiefling but a Drow...i Think. (One parent couldve been a Tiefling obviously but still). And even if Lucien was Tiefling...why is this twit playing a game where you can play as a human with devilish features? Dude's asking for some real Hellish Rebuke

[@PrideOfFantasy100]

For the first story, yeah I'd wager it's a Divine Comedy reference for the Dante and Virgil. But yeah, he needs to meet Ebony and Ivory for sure. That player though... Just the worst kind. I mean, I've played a character with a problem with another character and it was fun to work through it with the other PC and wasn't an issue. But there's a difference between a fun point and someone just being a douche. Good on the DM for kicking the guy, but too little too late. Shoulda been kicked in session 1 like Doge said. For the second story, it seems like it's either like Doge said or a newer group. Sometimes turns are gonna take a bit longer to adjust for new info, but that should be the outlier. Ain't nothing wrong with leaving for that I think and at least OP was respectful about it. Players! Put in the work and know your character!

[@wightmamba8085]

Surface/outcast drow. The games most racially profiled rave in dnd. I always liked going as half elf that was specifically halfdrow. He always followed one of the other elven god (cannot recall the name, all I remember was it in involved outcasts or loners). He was almost attacked on sight but luckily we had a bard who could basically only fail check if he rolled anything below 4 or 5 so that helped matters.

[@nekoali2]

A little inter-party conflict can spice a game up, so long as both people are on board with it and understand that it's not serious and just in game. That was clearly not what was going on here... I don't know if Luxia's player has personal beef with Lucien's player, or just had trouble separating fiction from reality. The fact that they were sending personal hateful messages outside the game shows it's well beyond characters not liking each other. And really he should have been kicked after being told to stop trying to attack a party member and then trying to argue it and continue doing so. It was clear he wasn't listening to the DM or other party members and would continue to be a problem until removed.

[@Sanodi21]

I thought Luxia was just one of those that uses Paladin to be a righteous asshole, but no, turns out they're a psycho zealot. Props to the DM for staying firm on no PvP because a lot of DMs do it after a bit, but *punish* the bastard. Regardless of the vows they took, you still have a supposed lawful good Paladin committing evil acts towards an innocent. Either they're completely ignoring their God or twisting their vows to suit their need which defeats the whole purpose of them. Make their weapons break. Give them the worst luck possible at the worst time. Whatever it takes short of kicking them to show that being evil has severe consequences as a Paladin.

[@VestedUTuber]

I mean, those aren't mutually exclusive. Psycho zealots often play righteous asshole paladins to live out their bigoted fantasies.

[@raziel710]

Luxia wasn't the paladin, they were a battlemaster fighter (Chaotic Good.) The only paladin mentioned was Lucien's backup character.

[@alphastronghold715]

Honestly, if I were another one of the party members I’d try and protect my companion. I know the DM was sticking to “no PVP” but after he tried to murder my companion multiple times it would be unrealistic of me to NOT just outright kill him.

[@Tannius]

And a paladin loses their paladinhood. There are terrible players and there are DMs who don't know how to handle them.

[@randomthoughts6680]

As someone who enjoys playing drows, specifically ones that were born and raised in Menzoberranzan, Luxia's story was painful. (none of them were evil towards their parties.)

[@gameguy20100]

I'm actually playing a half drow in a campaign now. He's actually the only sane man in a party of chaotic idiots Perpetually tired, a caffeine addict, and master wizard in training. He's a ton of fun to play.

[@diego2112gaming]

I primarily play a Drow. I have dealt with that level of prejudice before. Thankfully, 10/10 times, the DM shuts it down instantly. Also glad to hear Lucian is doing well. As someone who deals with some IRL heavy shit, stay strong Lucian, stay strong. *Double tap fist on chest, peace sign*

[@TheShadow717]

...then why play Drow? Not saying the levels of idiocy like this story is the meant to be the proper reaction, but like, why play drow if you *don't* want to be handled with prejudice? That's baked into their lore. This is like playing a necromancer and expecting nobody to feel off about your abilities.

[@TonySamedi]

@@TheShadow717 Not the person you asked but. 1-Considering he says DM shuts it down, I'm guessing he means more other players being bigots to the character. There is a massive difference between playing the character and running into the occasional untrusting townsperson and having another member of the Party being constantly on your case as an adversary. 2- You're aware not everyone uses Forgotten Realms lore right? Just because the Forgotten Realms lore says a thing doesn't mean that's what the table has to use. There is nothing in the actual rules of Drow that says "Must be hated and treated with suspiscion". I get some people REALLY love Forgotten Realms stuff, but personally I'm more a fan of oriiginal settings. What "The Lore" of Forgotten Realms says means less than nothing to many players. 3- This is a big one, ya can't compare hating someone for their heritage to being disgusted by someones ACTIONS. "Having been born to X group" is not the same as "Having done an actual horrible thing"

[@TheShadow717]

@tonym6693 I'm painfully aware people often care very little about lore when using the results of it irrespective of their original intent. I'm mainly going to address your second point. Drow are not originally from faerun or forgotten realms lore. They're from Oerth, but besides that, *every* setting they've been used in that ever had rights to dictate what they were they've ever been depicted in ways that a reasonable surface dwelling person would be panicked to see one on reputation alone, and they'd nearly always be right to do so or risk dying. Sure, a homebrewed setting might do away with this entirely, but then, you're not really using Drow are you? You could make dwarves a bunch of tree loving free spirits that have no engrained traditions and hate smithing as a culture too, but then you're not really using dwarves, are you? You could have grung that aren't slavers and have no hierarchy, but then they aren't really grung. The point is, it's dishonest to say you're using a conceptual race that's been well defined and given lore if all you're really doing is using the statblock and visuals. Just be original and call it something new instead of lazy and claiming the player races are whatever you want them to be. Have some creative bravery.

[@TonySamedi]

@@TheShadow717 Dude, Drow aren't originally from Oerth. Dark Elves go back to (at least) the Prose Edda and Norse Mythology. Guess what the actual source didn't have, them being all evil or always hated. They aided the Aesir and light elves too. If you're gonna appeal to the old sources as the one true way to present them, then why are you going with an entirely recent modern version? You can't claim that people presenting Drow (Dark Elves) as not all being evil and not all being hated is betraying the original source or lacking creative bravery when those things are things are themselves new additions. Maybe you should go find the people who added that to the mythos and complain that they didn't come up with a new concept instead of patching that onto dark elves. and seriously, just as a fellow geek. Stop letting different interpretations of things bother you. It's literally a freaking multiverse, having everything be the exact same is the true lack of creative bravery.

[@Arthas30000]

I can appreciate the 2nd story. That's been my experience in many, many groups. It's not even an issue of players not planning their turns, as much as you have to factor how many monsters there are and what they do as well. DnD is just poorly built for combat at higher levels

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

If you have too many enemies and that is slowing down the combat I would suggest limiting the number due to terrain. Ranged units can only fire if they are within 15 feet of a target, otherwise there are too many friendlies in the way and will have to gain a level of height (balcony, staircase, hill, tree, etc) to fire. Any other ranged units can only spray and pray. Take all using a similar weapon collectively, say 12 archers. Use the highest AC of the party currently standing as the DC and add 5 to that, if the collective attack roll hits that roll a d8 for the volley (or lesser die if less than 7 in collective attack) that is how many arrows hit something. Assign each player character a number and roll appropriate die to see which arrow or attack hits who. These attacks can never critical hit. In dense environments like a forest or in side a structure with low ceilings the ranged units can't make attacks from beyond the 15 foot range. As for melee only the units within melee range of characters can attack. Which will limit how many can actually attack. This is where fighting from just inside a door really works in players favor. It is also where creatures like Hobgoblins shine. But any disciplined unit can do this swapping maneuver. Tanks in front can swap with tanks directly behind if no enemies on their flanks, this can be done without causing opportunity attacks as the front tank will either pass the rear tank as rear tank advances or rear tank begins attack on enemy in front. This is how the Romans did it to extend the time their front line could continue fighting at full strength. Hobgoblins are just as disciplined and would also use this maneuver. Sorry for the rant. Always did like tactics.

[@lockwoan01]

Large group - first group I was in - an in-person one back in 2019 - had 8+ guys. Had a mix of Martials and Spellcasters. Took maybe a few minutes between turns, but usually the spellcasters would at least figure out - "Okay, if Enemy 1 is still alive, fireball them!" (Okay, maybe not fireball, but they'd figure it out.)

[@stevenhowe7308]

We had a drow NPC in our game that was the exception to the rule, she was lawful neutral. She got to talking to our wood elf and they became friends.

[@Taygon45]

There can be good Drow. They are unfortunately rare but Eilistraee is worshipped by the few that escape to the surface or are even rarer born on the surface. Not all Good Drow need to worship her but that's the likely answer as to why they're not evil.

[@Xokoy]

No, my dear doge, I don't think that was a Devil May Cry reference. Pretty sure that that was a Divine Comedy reference. Dante was the main character and Virgil was Dante's guide through hell, purgatory and then I believe they parted ways as Dante was going to heaven. Each of the three areas have their own name for the part of the story and the part where they're in hell is by far the most famous and is known as Dante's Inferno.

[@Avseraph]

People really like to give into hatred and anger, even in a game. I struggle with this in my family, parents divorced, mom despises dad's family for imaginary slights or not helping when she felt she deserved help. Poisoned one of my brothers mind and he has same views as her. Pitiful and sad.

[@raziel710]

This comment section really shows how poorly schools are doing at teaching reading comprehension. So many people commenting about "just take Luxia's PALADIN powers away" and "Lawful stupid PALADIN" when Luxia is a chaotic good battlemaster FIGHTER. The only mention of a paladin was Lucien's unused backup character.

[@jamison85]

People taking ages on their turn can be a massive annoyance. I played in a game with 4 other players, and we had one who would stall a bit. It wasn't a lasting issue though, we just asked him to be a bit more alert and prepared, and he improved drastically.

[@StellarTempest]

"I hid behind a corpse that I crafted using an arrow and a dire-wolf" ^^ I'm stealing this and leaving another line for others. "I'll be fine paying for ______. I found some money in a kind man's pocket."

[@DisneyChar]

I know AHs like paladins and dnd players don't like burning bridges but dnd gives you everything you need to handle bad paladins: they have a God, that God functions in the world, you can strip them of their powers. That's not even the excessive path.

[@VestedUTuber]

That's not RAW, though, at least in 5E. You can still do that, just make sure to tell your players that it can happen at the start of the campaign, as that's technically a homebrew rule. But in this case, I don't think it would fix the issue. If anything the problem player would probably start to target the DM as well.

[@DisneyChar]

@VestedUTuber and then they can leave, the common problem is almost every story is a lack of confrontation. Characters talk in game, (somewhere around here get group feedback) talk to the player out of game, in game consequences, find a new game.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@DisneyChar If they're being problematic like this, I would flat-out skip the in-game consequences step and just boot them if they won't listen to an OOC warning. Trying to beat around the bush like that doesn't work with them.

[@raziel710]

This story wasn't about a paladin though. Luxia was a chaotic good battlemaster fighter, the paladin was Lucien's unused backup character.

[@mutanthybrid3466]

Sounds similar to a tabletop game I was playing in. I was playing a grey elf wizard. Another player I had never met before immediately jumps up and tromps over to me in person and stands glaring down at me while live action playing his character. He starts ranting about the strange elf being a drow and that he was "going to keep an eye on him." I immediately saw how he was going to be a problem player, packed my stuff up, and went next door where a different table top game I wanted to play was being run. I had a blast there for about thirty minutes when suddenly, there was a knock on the door. The problem player was there asking to join that second game because, after I had left, the first game petered out and everyone else had left. Everyone at the table had already heard my story and yelled, "no.. there is no game here.. we are just messing around!!!" They sent him off believing there was no game going on.

[@atroecious9357]

Honestly, the racist paladin could have actually been a solid concept. Start where it did with the first set of interactions, but instead of the second set of interactions that started with "I try to slit his throat", have the Paladin refuse to sleep with the Drow on night watch. No words would need to be spoken between the two, just the Paladin watching the Drow in silence, making it be very well known that "I don't trust you, and the moment that I see you slip up, you're dead". maybe even do a double shift for watch and take a level of exhaustion for RP purposes. This could eventually evolve into a "ok, this Drow is ok" scenario, or even a ""drow arent' that bad", mattering on the world lore. And if not, a terse alliance can still be fun to play. That was WAY out of hand, though, even ignoring the PMs that accompanied it

[@raziel710]

racist "fighter." Luxia wasn't a paladin, the only paladin mentioned was Lucien's backup character.

[@mrroboshadow]

honestly this is how it should go problem: i want pvp DM: no Problem: but i... DM: get out

[@Taygon45]

Good job doormat DM. I wouldn't have allowed this player anywhere near my table after 9 minutes into the video. This pisses me off as someone that plays primarily Drow characters

[@Thundarr100]

Player: All drow are evil! I hate all drow! Any drow I see I’m going to kill! DM: Your party is walking through the forest when you smell the scent of a campfire and roasting meat coming from up ahead. Heading towards the scent out of curiosity, you come across a campsite. A warm, inviting campfire burns in the fire pit with a rabbit roasting over the coals on a wooden spit. Sitting on a log next to the fire is a drow, wearing the vestments of one who spends much time with nature. He has an elegant longbow and a quiver of arrows casually leaning against the log to his side, a pair of scimitars with elaborately designed hilts belted to his waist, and a gigantic black panther sleeping happily at his feet. He looks at you with his glowing purple eyes and smiles. “Well met” he says, “Care to join me by my fire?” (Looks directly at the player who wants to kill all drow) What do you do?

[@Th-ch5ez]

Mind if I smoke? I got some for you too, homie.

[@jacobportdaven8257]

player attacks the drow: the drow expertly dances around him and disarms him in a flash of light moving quicker then the eye can see as the panther slow stands and lets out a roar but doesnt pounce nor attack, as the drow calmly places the weapons down upon a stone a few feet away he remarks how its been some time since someone reacted to him so aggressively and asks where the party is from since by their companions actions they are not locals, as the drow attempt to introduce himself from a distance you hear the shouts of deep voiced male and and thru the treeline bursts a dwarf clad in armor and carrying magnificent warhammer and splendid shield " i heard your furball roar whats happening? are these assailants would be killers i need a bit of excitement" you hear another voice a females this time from the the east this one a female "relax father a simple misunderstanding they wouldnt be standing if they could do any true harm" a female human slowly emerges from the other row of trees and brush with a glowing bow in hand an glittering ethereal arrow notched and drawn " cat is correct i was about to introduce myself before you interrupted with your blustering" " blustering youve been spending to muc time in silver marches if you think thats blustering just a bit of fun is all no harm is done (under his breathe you can barely make out *not yet at least*)" but to be fair drizzt is like the only drow that isnt a raging murderous kill machine and his story is literally over decades of befriending and earning the trust of a relatively small portion of the world and mostly due to his association with lady alustriel, the entirety of ten towns after saving them many times, bruenors clan, and the years of service defend the port towns and their trade waters on a trusted captains ship and become renowned in luskan, waterdeep, and neverwinter. when he first popped into the surface first acts on him from non monster races was fear and being hunted down cept for a brief reprive with mooshie who died then fled and made his made his way all the way to icewind dale and even then had to avoid being seen and living on the tundra just him and his panther until he saved cattibrie as a child and won bruenors trust by doing so. so if a player wants to be a drow at low level well they gonna deal with ALOT cus drow are notoriously evil and hated with good reason the a step above mind flayers hell gnolls and full orcs would be less likely to be attacked on the spot then a drow not to mention its common knowledge if one drow can be seen probably more ready to kill you and your town once night falls.

[@Thundarr100]

@@jacobportdaven8257 Drizzt is the most well known heroic drow, but not the only one. The priestesses of Elestrae, for example, are by their very nature of good alignment. My point is that the player probably wouldn’t have the “all drow must die” attitude if he were to meet Drizzt for the first time, because the player would likely (a) know that Drizzt is a good guy, and (b) know that he would be completely outmatched in a fight against him. And the one playing the half drow character had made it perfectly clear, repeatedly, that his character wasn’t evil. So the player was deliberately refusing to accept that drow can be of good alignment just as an excuse for PvP within the party. At least that’s what I think he was doing. Come to think of it, maybe he should meet up with Leriel Banre instead. While not evil, she has no qualms about using lethal force to defend herself. And she has some very powerful spells at her disposal to do so. An unprovoked attack against her could end in him being disintegrated.

[@kannonball5789]

​@@Thundarr100Mystra clerics be like

[@thiccphone1166]

I close the book on him.

[@kgmotte2363]

Heh, the Irony of a story like this popping up in front of me now... Just started a Starfinder Campaign, Playing a Noble Scion Drow, Full Drow, not Half Like Lucian... And Hilariously enough, The other players Kinda wound up Aligned Against her, sorta, but not for being Drow... They Decided that she was the "I Guess we have to Endure her Presence" Character, as about 2 Minutes into the FIRST Session, and her first meeting With the FIRST other player character, they'd all decided that she was a "Karen"... Her Crime to Deserve such an "Honorific"? She Showed up at Space Station entry Security desk Half Drunk (Well Faking being Drunk, specifically so that people would not think of her as a Threat and Shoot her on Sight, but they don't know that... They Never Asked or rolled to check to see if she was Faking it either!). Well that and her Public Persona when dealing with Non-Drow is that of a Stereotypical Bimbo or 90's Movie Sorority Girl (Again, the point is to seem as non-Threatening as possible)... Which is made even more hilarious due to the fact that she has the Equivalency of 3 Doctorates and 2 Masters Degrees (Spending 40 Years in College Guarantees you'll get SOME Kind of Diploma!). Turns out the acting worked, Half the player Characters are ACTIVELY Trying to avoid "The Karen", one(an 11 Foot tall Dragon Man) Decided it just wasn't worth the effort to do anything else than just let her do her thing, and one decided to just take her at face value and assume that she really WAS just that nice and Cheerful. The Players Meanwhile are all Too Busy Laughing their asses off at her antics. Best of both worlds really... I can't wait to see how this turns out.

[@meyatetana2973]

So wait there was an Orc but he had no problems with that but a Drow oh no gotta attack? WTF? Was he like oh can't kill Orc easily but I can do that with the Drow?

[@1Ring42]

It could easily have been a divine comedy reference as well

[@clauro6153]

Unless it's a color book version , i am very doubtful

[@davidtherwhanger6795]

Second Story. Long Turns. If some players are taking way too long start a 1 or 2 minute timer. The player has that long to figure out what they do or their character "hesitates" and goes after the last one in Initiative. At that point they get another timer. If they don't think of something then, they loose their turn. I don't recommend this all the time unless you and the players want to put a "Time Crunch" to your combat as well. But I do recommend using it to get players who are not paying attention and constantly changing their minds about what to do in combat, eating up way more time than they should.

[@Shepard0817]

Literally had Bury the Light playing in the backyard when you read the DMC reference. Little bit of funny coincidence.

[@silverbullet7691]

The wave of nostalgia and delight when they mentioned first story’s character was based of Trellis from Amulet was strong

[@0potion]

Love the background dark cloud 2 footage. Story was okay, just makes me even more glad I gave this shit up. I got tired of narcissistic players ruining everyone's good time.

[@AzaloonyToons]

The moment I heard Amulet being mentioned, I knew I had to make a comment. 10/10 comic book seriez

[@fred_derf]

That last story is an example of why you need a rule that during initiative, on your turn you have a count of five to act. If you can't decide on a course of action then you do nothing. These are players who, as Doge Said, weren't paying attention when it wasn't their turn *and* didn't know their characters. I applaud OP for leaving.

[@ArawnNox]

I'm actively annoyed with the DM for not shutting this crap down sooner.

[@Takisan111]

My most frequently used character is a surface drow fighter/barbarian named Roger who was born without magic for reasons we've never had a chance to get an explanation for since none of the games last long enough. He learned how to fight from his paladin father and his druid mother taught him how to identify various plants and animals. Other players tend to really like him because he's a giant cinnamon roll of a man. I like him too though I tend to worry I play his peacekeeping habits too strongly sometimes.

[@dragonmasterknight7]

Okay, in regards to the first story, let me say this. RACISM IS NOT ALLOWED IN ANY GAME! Yes you can have your opinions on things like races or character groups. But when you go to the lengths the first PP did then you need a swift boot to the head and to be banned from ALL gaming societies. This includes online gaming, TTRPG, LARP, and EVEN TCG/OCG games entirely. I'm glad to hear that the victim at least held on afterwards to see their character get a proper ending and hope they continue to improve and grow in their life as time moves on. And on an alternative note, I love this channel and the stories you read Doge. Please continue to do so.

[@arnoldschpeiker7887]

Geez, that DM was such a limp noodle. You’d think after all the blustering by Luxia in Session 1 and then the ranting AND attempted PVP afterwards they’d boot them. There’s keeping the peace, but this was just straight up cowardliness towards an obviously toxic player.

[@RubyGalaxyYT]

I do like seeing Dark Chronicle appearing in vids today, I loved that game as a kid when I picked up a rental copy at block buster, and the game still holds up today. I wouldn't mind seeing vids talking about your opinions on these old games you use as b-roll.

[@samuelsalvatore4511]

9:03 i love how everyone immediately ignored the fact that the dm specifically said that he didn't allow PvP and then the DM literally didn't seem to even care that paladin continued to attack the drow lol

[@XFizzlepop-Berrytwist]

If a turn takes more than 5 minutes, the DM needs to start skipping turns. Unless someone is new, or the group is working on something complicated. But to take out wolves? If it takes that long for wolves, I’d hate to see how long it would take for a complicated fight. Have a timer set for each turn.

[@pianotm]

The race I most commonly play is drow. It's extremely rare that I ever play a "normal" race. Pathfinder and DnD. Drow, Tiefling, Lashunta, Duskwalker, Fetchling, Triaxian. I dig deep into exotic races. I think I've only ever played a human once, and that was for a one-shot. My group, we all take turns running games and DMing, and none of us allow PVP. I'd like to think we'd teach an a-hole like this a lesson, but odds are, we'd probably just ban him on the spot.

[@joshuacouture479]

I love that double Amulet reference in both the name and design of the character. Imagine if the DM striped away whatever makes luxia ability to be paladin as a form of divine retribution for being a lawful stupid paladin and nightmare player

[@raziel710]

Luxia wasn't a paladin, they were a battlemaster fighter. The only paladin mentioned was Lucien's backup character.

[@joshuacouture479]

@@raziel710 sorry, there were quite a few characters and I guess I got a bit lost

[@BotWhisperer]

As a DM I personally would have delt with this by griefing him. "I grab my bow and shoot him" "Your bow snaps in two" "What!? Why?" "Because I said no PVP. Next time, it'll be your characters neck that breaks". I hate stupid children that can't wrap thier head around this being a group game.

[@Pachitaro]

No shot... Was the first DM asleep?

[@12345678901011213]

All of those rolls he made were suspiciously high.

[@wolfherojohnson2766]

Ironically enough, I once made a tabaxi with the same name as the second OP’s user name

[@JorTanos]

Why does a Drow/Human have wings? Drow don't have wings.

[@starbird3939]

I am glad the DM stood firm on the “No PVP” rule and kicked this arsehole. Consider this a DM Glory Story

[@serbianslav5494]

7:39-7:41 Tell me you've never heard of Divine Comedy without telling me you've never heard of Divine Comedy.

[@Renkencen]

I'm supriused the DM was an idiot for not kicking the problem player as soon he wanted to killed the Drow player at the start of the campaign!

[@anderwood6005]

These all sound like people I would never want in game.

[@Lh0000]

One random thing to mention it MIIIIIIGHT have been a divine comedy reference, as that’s what dante and Vergil in DMC are very loosely based on kinda sorta. Okay they are basically just named after the two characters and that’s about where it ends.

[@gamereaperoz]

At first I thought this was the other story about murderhobos vs. a half-drow pc.

[@NerdAlert42]

Ironically enough, i play a drow character who, so far, has gotten along with the wood elf in the party better than the other two drow that have been with us 😂 At first, he was merely tolerating the elf bc he needed to learn about the surface, but they had an interaction where sorrn (my character) realized they had pretty similar beliefs as to "the strong live, the weak die, and those dumb enough to protect the weak do too, that's just life" He told rolan "you'd make a very good drow, shame you were born in the wrong body" Coming from the man who believes drow are superior, that's a compliment of the highest degree! But anyway. The two drow. First was an ex-priestess of lolth that turned to magical drugs for that extra power boost. After several attempts on sorrn's life, or just sending him into dangerous situations, the half-drow in the party challenged her. Sorrn stepped in when it seemed like the half drow was losing, bc unlike the follower of lolth, the half drow was nice to him. Last words austra heard were "look at yourself. The fact i can strike you is proof enough that lolth has abandoned you. You have failed your people, your house, and you have turned away from her. How far you have fallen. You are nothing. You are so low she sent a mere MALE to deal with you!" The second one has just been constantly provoking him lmao. He's an albino (so naturally higher status due to usefulness), and sorrn HATES people who never had to work for their power Also he worshipped vhaerun, and at some point, this man offhandedly said "it's not *my* fault you worship the wrong god" And of course, sorrn is more scared of lolth than he is of the party, so of course he's going to try to kill the heretic. (Dw, i cleared the attacks with the players before hand, we have a running joke we've called "the spider wars", ever since the aforementioned half drow killed a spider, pitting her and the other half drow (who, fun fact, is sorrn's half brother!) Against the two lolthites) Despite being a follower of lolth, he's a real sweetie, i swear. He's just REALLY stubborn and loyal and nobody taught him any different. And it's incredibly hard to get through to someone when they hardly know what kindness *is*.

[@solan7978]

She's playing that woman who was harassing Hughmongous about the police bunker!

[@roaminglycan1491]

Had my first dnd session last weekend it was pretty great, I wish hers was as fun as mine.

[@TonySamedi]

Story 1: Honestly I haven't DM'd, but if I did DM and someone was trying PVP after I explicitly told them not to? I'd tell them to roll for damage, and then say that damage hit their character. "Oh, looks like your arrow turned around and hit you in the knee. You take that damage and can't be an adventurer anymore. Bye" Then kick them. (I'm aware the meme is old, but why waste originality on idiots who can't listen?) Story 2: Okay, again, I haven't DM'd but FFS set a time limit. Your character is having to act in about 6 seconds, if you can't decide on an action in a full minute your turn is skipped. I just cannot with players who don't have some idea of what to do when their turn is up. I pay attention and plan as things are going on. "Okay, looks like everyone else is focusing on this enemy, if they're not dead yet by my turn I'll attack too to help lower the enemy numbers" "Oh player X took a big hit, I'll heal them when it's my turn" How difficult is it to have some idea what you're gonna do on your turn?

[@nolabratteig988]

Dnd doge playing dark cloud 2 is amazing

[@kurisu7885]

Luxia's player reminds me of way too many GTA Online players when they refuse to leave people along even when it's been make clear you don't want to PVP.

[@corsaircarl9582]

Don't let Luxia read the Drizzt books, they'd blow a gasket!

[@TheRPGNerd]

She would HATE my character (corin, a kenku flavored as being a half kenku half human, with (non-functional) wings. He's based on an oc of the same name who IS a demon.)

[@truerandomness]

Might have mentioned this before but my cat is named Alice too!

[@alsenddrake7764]

"crafted with an arrow and a wolf" XD

[@vedymin1]

Drow: "Is it becouse im black !?!?". Murderhobo: "....hmmyes". X)

[@rumbleroller2154]

(11:11) At this point, Luxia has no reason to stay with the party. I mean, they're all basically employees, hired mercs, helping this PC anyway. But Luxia is/was actively CHOOSING to stick around and be a nuisance. They're just staying with the party to antagonize..

[@samanthasoares4806]

Why does it sound like even when they're not scuffing their rolls toxic players always get 17+ when I try to be super nice and helpful only to get 2s and 3s and feel like I can't do anything.

[@chrishardy559]

I once played a drow death domain cleric / undead warlock who's goddess / patron was the raven queen. used a modified noble background though were i was raised more as a attendant / childhood friend of one of the other characters but was given the freedom to study/practice my own interests and hobbies when my duties for the day were finished. many people in game saw him as a threat because of his race/abilities but the dm and i plained that going into the game and my guy faced each challange with a combination of intelligence, wisdom and charisma then if that failed out came a scythe and a pair of black angelic wings and his personality would snap from calm gentlemen to total psyco

[@YamadaJisho]

This is the point where the DM should be asking the anti-drow player "What the fuck?"

[@happybatty5142]

I played in a 12 player online game recently. it was two player groups in the same guild that came together to finish. Highly experimental idea from one of the guilds DMs. It was chaos! It was fun, but I wouldn't want to do that on a regular basis 😅 I also had too much mead that night 😹😹😹

[@VestedUTuber]

Tabaxi-player I'd assume? (based on the cat emojis)

[@dragowolfraven3806]

Clearly the person in the first story has never read the Legend of Drizzt. Drizzt was the only good drow elf. I read that series of books and the Icewind Dale Trilogy. Great read.

[@ViZet85]

Well, not the only one. Lyriel is pretty much close, the Eilistrae church houses many of th em, for example. Drizzt, of course, is the most famous.