"Music Production Youtubers Are FRAUDS" 🤔

[@Weaverbeats]

Watch till the end or you won't get the point 👉🏼SUB TO MY 2ND CHANNEL kzbin.info 👉🏼MY SOCIALS - linktr.ee/weaverbeats

[@Mikeyvellii]

These producers just need to use the drip plugin then all would be well.

[@Weaverbeats]

true

[@russelledwards2405]

No, they need the Unison Midi Wizard and Drum Monkey Combo!!

[@Rami-bi9xj]

@@russelledwards2405 and some soundgoodizer

[@CN3Music]

I woulda been a billionaire by now if I had the drip plugin

[@Michael_Smith-Red_No.5]

@@russelledwards2405 was that The MIDI Pack? Everyone needs that. Whatever you want, he's got you.

[@EdTalenti]

Great video! For me personally, I realized that I enjoy documenting and exploring the creative process much more than fine-tuning, releasing, and promoting music. In my videos, I make an effort to really showcase the joy of making music, which has been the driving force behind most of my life/career decisions. That's why after years as a drummer releasing music with bands and artists I decided to shift and focus on content creation. I just personally find it more rewarding and fun!

[@Weaverbeats]

Thank you man, that makes a lot of sense. I know what you mean especially with promoting music, that part is extremely tedious and unfun. Hope you don't feel too "called out" by this video, I wasn't sure of a way to present the ideas/theories I have without showing numbers etc. Much love.

[@SyneAudio]

Appreciated Ed! I have learned a lot from your videos.

[@danielguevara8815]

I love this response. It can really take a toll when you are hyper focused on perfection and the finished product, when in reality the whole point should be to just have fun and enjoy life to the fullest.

[@-BigTMoney-]

I watch ed's channel for his energy, like the dude looks like he is enjoying what he is doing or like Bishu having his fun pocket he is in. I picked up a daw b/c of covid and I travel 300+days a year by myself and work over nights. haveing gooffing off with a daw is more productive than than a video game

[@liltrboofficial4671]

I know how are your producers feel it takes time and energy to make these tutorials especially when you’re a college student like me and partially blind it’s pretty tough I hate how other people who don’t understand us are quick to judge

[@busyworksbeats]

It's cuz out of the 3,920 videos where i make music, they amassed 120M+ views. That IS my catalog 😂

[@Weaverbeats]

i agree, i think the proof is in the pudding, and often people focus on the ones that arent as good.

[@hostilesavage4299]

Busy is a fraud... mfckr aint doing sh*t but hustling the viewers on yt.. 😂😭😂😭

[@o_gzimusic3244]

Say it again 😎

[@Rightly_Divided]

Ayyyeee I love your beat battles man!

[@T.JohnsonTX]

I've been a fan of all of these content creators. I've watched them for years but I found that most of them are using YT as an advertising platform for their merch, samples, production school or plugins, which is fine. There are much smaller producers who IMO provide more useful information and really share production techniques that are usable. There are also YT creators that speak the truth (I'm talking about you, Weaver) about this industry and provide a layman's review of products that I appreciate. I've unsubbed from all of those other content creators these days because I finally understood that watching versus doing wasn't really helping me improve. This was a great topic that needed to be addressed. Keep speaking the truth! I'll be there to watch, sometimes comment and laugh. Thank you!

[@Weaverbeats]

There's nothing wrong with selling stuff too, the main problem I find is when it becomes the destination of the content and not a side quest.

[@SHLDMusic]

Can't stand all that sponsored videos...

[@T.JohnsonTX]

@@Weaverbeats Agreed

[@shaft9000]

It is what it is. This is an "in the last five years' phenomenon - people who are turning a hobby of a KZbin content-creator into a career. They are not prioritizing objectivity nor our understanding of anything; they are prioritizing views and ad sales. YT has been around for 15 years. I've demoed many synths on YT beginning well over ten years ago, and have 100,000s of views. In my experience, the demos of AUDIO gear were/are almost always better when the presenter relies on descriptive text and doesn't interject with their personality. Ya know...so we can HEAR the thing we came to hear(!). There truly is no other way to to aim at presenting a synth objectively - than for the person to get OUT of 'the way'. Loopop is (almost) an exception who manages to stand out with a hybrid AND methodical, 'hands and voice only' format. But it is also clear that he is pushing merch as well. The only truly great one left is Jexus, who I've known for a long time. And he had to go through personal hell just to come back and make it 'work' selling synth patches.

[@aqueous5099]

@@shaft9000 I think you have a thing for audio purity, which is fine, but it is possible to present both. In fact, a person telling you their process, techniques, where they may be biased could be more useful when transparent. I also think it’s okay people want to make money. But they should be more candid with the audience. A good salesperson shows 95% product/content then 5% is asking for your support or to buy it.

[@traplover6357]

It's like professors teaching a class. They might not be the most leading researcher in their field, but they're still knowledgeable enough to pass on knowledge.

[@OrangeNash]

Or they might not be. The art is in judging. Especially difficult when you are inexperienced.

[@traveler263]

venus theory is where I learn about the frustrations of a failed musician

[@zutlo]

Hearing Nick Mira in a list of KZbin music producers sounds kind of wrong to me lol

[@Weaverbeats]

i cant disagree, it does feel "different" but he also uploads youtube videos, that's one reason why i put him on here.

[@hawk97x68]

@mana256k Nick Mira was one of the key producers who made Juice WRLD's emotional trap go mainstream. He has merit in the industry.

[@Hemo-Dyn]

@@hawk97x68 hell yeah. That guy has absolutely not a single clue what he’s talking about. Juice wrld, xxxtentacion, nba youngboy, 24k goldn, lil tecca, lil uzi, don toliver, Nick Mira has worked with all of these guys. Out of every producer mentioned, Nick Mira absolutely has the most credentials. You don’t even have to like these artists, but anyone with a brain knows that he’s made a lot of money alongside them.

[@davidfouse1820]

@@Hemo-Dyn What I like best about Nick is that even though he has placements, as of 2-3 days ago, he’s still uploading tutorials.

[@vernonfelix9218]

@@Hemo-Dyn correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Nick Mira and Internet Money kind of in the forefront of the trap sound? Back then, trap was fresh.Then everyone followed the same formula. So, what makes your trap song any different from any song on Billboard charts. Billboard artists are signed to major record labels that has influence in the music industry. Those artists make use of publicity stunts to create a buzz around their releases. Contraversy creates cash.

[@MilesAwayOfficial]

This is spot on man. I found what you said about how much time KZbin takes to resonate with me, as I've found it quite hard to balance as much music as I used to make with making even weekly videos. There comes at a time when almost everyone has to choose to focus more on either KZbin, or releasing music for their artist project. I personally decided to stick with my artist project as my main, with KZbin on the side, but I fully get why some of these folks would pick the opposite. Great content!

[@HomageBeats]

solid video, good explanation, but there's plenty of people who are "youtubers" who also do well on spotify / other platforms... first two that come to mind are CookinSoul and L.Dre

[@Weaverbeats]

Thank you. To clarify, I wasn't saying they don't exist, it definitely seems like the majority of music production youtubers (tutorial/reviews especially) don't have music. Which is what I was focusing on here.

[@darkskinwhite]

idk L.Dre but CookinSoul was around and doing good way before he was doing much on youtube. youtubers rarely can transition to successful music careers but if you have a music career you can do whatever afterwards. and especially in rap you have to make it first in music otherwise the music audience has no interest in you because you already made it which defeats the purpose (in hiphop but that's also somewhat reflected in music in general)

[@Lous_taunau]

lol, the istock photo in the background haha dope.

[@anachronismic]

Wild to find your KZbin after listening to your beats in like 2014 damn

[@GeassStudioR2]

I started to realize the making KZbin stuff on top of making music on a consistent basis is tough as shit, especially when you don’t have enough finances to hire help. So it’s understandable why these guys focus on one platform than the other, especially if one of them has built them a huge audience for them

[@Weaverbeats]

this is true, it's a ridiculous grind

[@ilikemyrealname]

Yeah I have a channel called PhantasmaPhonic and every week I produced a new song and music video. I did this for like 40 weeks straight and barely cracked 100 subs.

[@dalestrommusic]

Yeah, trying to do all the platforms imo is a fool’s errand. I forget who said it, but to the question, “how many platforms should you do?” The answer should always be, “as many as you can do right.”

[@dalestrommusic]

@@ilikemyrealname cutting through the noise and analytics is like a full time job unto itself. It’s like first you have to have good content that people want to watch, but then there’s several other sides to it that are like a whole other skill set and workload. I tried it too with a horror movie channel, but got burnt after like three months. One or two of the videos kinda had some success like way after I quit, but it can be really frustrating and thankless for while, throwing all this time and energy into something that you don’t even know if it will do anything. I’m giving it another go here soon with music, but my approach is different, and I’m trying to get a bunch of “infrastructure” so to speak in place before I even really start.

[@ilikemyrealname]

@@dalestrommusic Best of luck on your channel. I’m planning on giving it another go myself but with a different approach. What was encouraging was that the people who did watch became VERY into the content. Matter of fact I even started a Patreon and had up to I think 14 at one point. Making more than $50 a month. Get this..that was 3 years ago almost that I stopped posting to YT regularly. Nearly all my Patreons are STILL with me because every week I still write them a blog and release a track of some kind (stuff from years ago, new stuff not totally complete, stuff like that). I’ve released over 150 tracks to them. So the base is there, but the amount of time and effort was too great to keep up my old way of doing things. Writing, recording, mixing and then making a video of a brand new song once a week was legit at least 40 hours a week. Again good luck with your channel!

[@RedMeansRecording]

The funny thing is I wouldn't have listeners if it wasn't for KZbin but I would have more music out if I didn't do KZbin. It's a conundrum.

[@BlezzBeats]

Every point made perfect sense, here's an additional one on top that I didn't think of until a long way into this little youtube journey: marketing your music toward people that are totally absorbed in making their own music isn't the greatest bet 😁

[@titusrivers5059]

💯

[@tekhnopranaexploratoryelec1445]

Exactly!!!

[@YUIJUNE]

I think actually it might. A lot of those people (myself included) are very enthusiastic about music in general. When Kenny beats released his music I checked it out for instance.

[@BlezzBeats]

@@YUIJUNE Yeah that makes sense, if you're into music production of course you're into music as well. There's a thousand cases. I just mean when it comes to selling beats, producing for artists, and not just consuming in general, it makes more sense to market yourself toward an audience where there's demand. An artist is more likely to be shopping for beats or looking to collaborate for whatever piece of their skillset that's missing and they want to focus less on, of course. So if that's your biggest goal, make content to help artists out.

[@YUIJUNE]

@@BlezzBeats ye, that makes sense.

[@jasonchambers6787]

It just comes down to where you find your success and what you enjoy more. It's much MUCH harder to make it as a popular artist, you have to do SO MUCH crap that isn't music.. dealing with labels, promoters, touring, marketing, merchandise... other band members... it's a damn headache. A lot of producers made youtube channels to promote themselves but ended up doing way better for themselves than spotify could ever hope to for the effort involved. Look at Multiplier for example, he started out as a DJ and producer but shifted into sound design, music education and product promotion. Millions of people are all chasing the same dream but that dream is very narrowly focused. These people just found a different avenue to work in a music related field to fuel their passion.

[@user-xj7oi8pc7o]

and their passion is only money. so you are just bullstting. none of them produced a masterpiece.

[@jshstuff]

I liked your take on this. I don't plan on doing any serious artist projects for another few years as I'm still learning and growing. But I do make the odd production tutorial when I get the urge to do a brain dump of something new I learned along the way. Sometimes I think I shouldn't upload tutorials because I don't have success to prove my worth. But in the end if I think I have something worth sharing I just do it anyway. And I try to be as honest as possible with what I do / don't know.

[@Aywusgod]

This is a great video. Like you said, KZbin producer content is so good when getting started. But other than that, you quickly come to a point where you're better off just going crazy in your DAW. Barely watch producer stuff today apart from a few who drop actual sauce

[@deatheternal720]

Lol on the topic of quality of product vs quantity of plays is very spot on. I personally like my own music, and ive been told a LOT that my stuff is quite good. I just dont have an audience because i am still trying to navigate marketing

[@alray9858]

One good way I found Venus theory reliable was by hearing the music he makes in videos.. I like it

[@ebluemagick]

I think some people have a very narrow view of what success is. I've been creating for years and I've still learned something from all of you. So I thank you all. We shouldn't bite the hand that feeds us

[@Beatitat]

As someone who works with artists in person, helps on music video sets, does recording sessions with artists, balancing KZbin as well on top of having a career in music is damn near impossible. It’s why my channel died after 2018, because I was too busy with recording sessions. Then once I moved to LA I had a little bit more time but it’s still rough.

[@russelledwards2405]

Venus Theory has been very open that his background is in sound design so I never expected a lot of streams from him. I don't care if they get a lot of streams because we have all seen hot garbage get a lot of streams and absolute musical geniuses get no traffic. The only streamers that bother me are the ones that are gung fuckin ho about EVERY product to the point where they have no credibility

[@genuinefreewilly5706]

Ive downloaded many of his patches which are in various vst synths. I glommed onto a few that perked my ears without his youtube site One of my favourite Decent sampler patches is David Hilowitzs slinky violin. I think its still a killer sound. I like a a cinema pad sound in Vital from the 'In the mix' youtube dude and a really good tutorial on Vital

[@russelledwards2405]

@@genuinefreewilly5706 I have learned a lot from his videos. One of the most useful channels for me.

[@dalestrommusic]

VT is the GOAT. I’ve also noticed that Dixon is a fucking savant of a musician. Very different style, but if you notice even the little ditties he comes up with to do a 10 second showcase of a patch are really clever. Sometimes a bit of a lift from a popular song, but still, to be able to essentially do that on command several times a week is pretty impressive.

[@MajorOSC]

Yeah Venus theory is legit. I know he has turned down stuff that he knows is shit. In addition to this he's one of the best voices, an articulate speaker, and excellent writer. I cannot tell you how many morons on KZbin use the same voice intonation, like a computer voice stuck on the same pitch sequence routine but subbing in different words. It is truly the sign of a moron.

[@TheValueOfN]

cough... ahem... Unbox Therapy et al.

[@NelGabriel]

Just discovered this channel, loving your vibe, man. Great topic, you could even have gone more in depth it would have been okay I think . Love the general no fks given attitude

[@TheOrphicCreative]

The music industry is a tough nut to crack, particularly if your only goal is to have lots of listens / downloads / etc. Over the last 20 years I've had to diversify hugely in the things I do to make an income from music, and none of those involve any stats that are publicly visible. I'm happy for producers that do build a following on Spotify, but it is just one path out of thousands in the industry. Also, how much money you make is the WORST way to judge yourself as a producer. Like any art, skill has nothing to do with income. Its about craftsmanship and passion. Even if you never release anything you can still build up a huge and valid knowledge of what it means to be a good producer.

[@shaft9000]

The industry nutcracker = hustlin' for payola. (or merely showing up, if you were born lucky) As ever. But yeah, success is not only measured by monetary gains. It's nature's way. P.T. Barnum was not kidding about 'a sucker born every minute''. The Milli Vanilli approach doesn't work out for long, even though there are a million other (not so successful) stories a lot like theirs.

[@edasoundgod871]

Well said

[@XLNTSOUND]

Cool video. We can attest that sometimes making your own music is not always your priority. We have plays but don’t often release our “own releases” Some people enjoy producing more for others than themselves. Also being a “Artist” in the music industry is not the only way to make a living. And tbh it’s not the most financially rewarding either if you think about it. Yes some cases of course but small percentage. Other producers can find other ways to make revenue streams. Great Vid dude! Really Interesting

[@Alckemy]

A lot of times when you’re a content creator that’s not directly related to your music you separate yourself from your artist brand. I was afraid of being another content creator who is not so good at making quality tunes so I started streaming production and doing things from scratch while making educationally dedicated tutorials to balance it out. I thought that by making tutorials it would lead people to my music but that has not been the case. Would I would suggest though is be yourself as an artist from the beginning, stay humble, and be grateful for the audience that watches your content. It’s a really hard career but I’m so thankful I don’t have a 9-5

[@sclr]

life gets in the way. plus music isn't a winning game unless you are hustlin' or get lucky, IMO. any money i've made on music was never making my own sh!t. great vid!

[@HaotoAnimeOnPiano]

This reminds me of similar situations where the Original Artist (the singer/vocalist) gets most if not all the attention. Whereas the composers, arrangers, lyricists, mixers, etc. are forgotten.

[@maricorp.449]

People sharing small secrets, whatever they may be, is way more important to study than buying crappy VSTs and buying sample packs that are all the same samples from lex luger drum kit.

[@Weaverbeats]

this is true!

[@PlayEngage]

Thank you for this video! Awesome topic to think about. Yes, Spotify stats are not the be-all & end-all for majority of the artists and producers for measuring clout or success. 👍🏻❤️

[@abokoofficial]

This was pretty cool seeing the perspective from the other side where you're not a huge youtuber but you have much more traction on different platforms. In a marketing class I learned that on average people only view about 3 degrees of the internet. Meaning that if the internet was a 360 degree circle, each person stays within a 3 degree range on that circle. I feel like what youre saying is also kinda similar. Like just because a KZbinr has a bunch of subs doesnt mean their fans will go to a different platform and make them just as popular there. Especially if the content creators fans dont already use that platform frequently.

[@LoveItDirtyOffroad]

Ahhh 😁 i love the stock photo backdrop

[@FCTHETRUTH]

this was a dope video...very cool how u broke down everything and everyone in a positive light! great video idea

[@mikevenus4117]

This is true because since I have been focusing on making videos and not releasing new music, my listeners have dropped greatly. I’m going back to releasing music from now on. Thank you for this video.

[@watameron2936]

It’s wild to me how many people seem to think of these KZbin producers as frauds because of low numbers on their own music. Besides the points you mentioned, I think another major one is branding. These people chose to be youtubers/teachers as their main goal to pursue, meaning the vast majority of their audience is there to learn something and doesn’t care about their own music, as sad as it is. Doesn’t mean they don’t know how to produce a banger, how to convey that knowledge and that it isn’t exactly what they enjoy doing though. I think it’s crucial to prioritize your goals and get the branding right as early as possible, and that it’s horrible advise to tell aspiring artists to make tutorials to boost their watch time and engagement, which you hear a lot in the marketing circles. If teaching isn’t your main goal, then don’t brand yourself as a teacher, unless you want your music in a chastity cage.

[@MadACeTeeMack]

If you don't have a major placement then yes you are a fraud. You are copycating or "biting." You never see the top producers on KZbin with tutorials. They are either selling them on Mixing with the Masters or some other paid platform and even those paid tutorials lack the core secrets to their production. Are you people that naive or what?

[@watameron2936]

@@MadACeTeeMack Everyone is copying to some degree, nothing in music is made completely from scratch. How do you define top producer ? Because there’s people like Finneas O’Connell, Virtual Riot and Kshmr giving lessons here, letting you compare the quality of their methods and tips to people like Andrew Huang, although it’s an irrelevant argument to begin with in my eyes because I think you should compare the results of whatever lessons you’re watching to the music you want to be able to make, I don’t see where being naive fits in the equation. My brother in Christ, i have no idea what kind of deep secrets you think are necessary to know in order to make good music that people, including yourself, will enjoy, share with friends and use in their TikToks or whatever, but the free stuff on KZbin is absolutely enough (though paid lessons will cut time off your learning curve of course). From there on it’s on you to choose videos to learn from, put in the work and develop your skills and sound.

[@MadACeTeeMack]

@@watameron2936 That's why the music producer game today sucks. Everybody trying to copy everyone else. Be original

[@MadACeTeeMack]

@@watameron2936 I can tell you are one too because you cosign to stealing others ideas and claiming them as if it's yours for views. That's real cheap in my opinion.

[@watameron2936]

@@MadACeTeeMack I agree, though this issue isn’t exclusive to today’s times. Sharp deduction, except I was talking about how we’ve all been developing certain expectations and images how music is supposed to sound based on other peoples work since we were born. Most people prefer modern singing techniques with lyrics over Mongolian throat singing mostly because that’s what gives us familiarity, even though neither is an objectively less valid style of singing. Unless you’re into hardcore experimental stuff and want to reinvent the wheel, you can’t and shouldn’t avoid being inspired by others and neither is this going to prevent you from creating your own sound. Being unoriginal will, as you said.

[@jaycenteno8385]

I love when you do the funny bits in your vids, I even prefer it but I really do enjoy when you tackle more series topics too! Variety is the spice of life right? :D

[@Weaverbeats]

thank you! yeah nojt everything can be fun and games, although the intro was pretty fun on this one lmao

[@jaycenteno8385]

@@Weaverbeats It was a funny start and it helped to ease into the topic at hand. Just because youre taking on a more serious subject doesnt mean you can have a bit of fun with it! :)

[@thetylersherman]

Yooo i9bonsai on the Spotify right off the drop, suddenly I trust you

[@ceelothatmane9421]

As soon as I saw the stock background photo with the watermark on it I HAD to sub 😂

[@7177YT]

Simon used to work as a nurse as day job while maintaining the channel until recently. He came out of the pedal modding scene. He makes music but I don't think he aspires to make it on Spotify. So, you should have a look at those who present as working musicians in their videos. Cheers!

[@Beggsnacon]

Yeah, i dont think he presents himself as a producer either or tries to teach/tell others how to do stuff, but goddamn, a more creative person is hard to find.

[@rasmusfaber]

This is the same issue as with any type of teacher? If you're successful you might not feel the pull to become the teacher. Also, you might suck as a teacher (a lot of pros do). On the other hand, being a great teacher and communicator is its own skill. A lot of youtubers are great at that. There's the need for humility on the part of teachers to really deconstruct how the professionals (who are not teachers) work, and not fall into the trap of looking at themselves as the model for a professional, they might not always be. A teacher should be wary of only educating people to become new teachers like themselves. That said, a lot of the guys mentioned here are popular precisely because they manage to strike a good balance (and also provide more generally interesting content)

[@ModePhaser]

Dude great vid. Legit one of the best channels that cover our favorite hobby. Big ups! 🙌🙌🙌

[@Staykool777]

Excellent job. I key is this: some people are truly great teachers. That's what they are good at. The lack of hits means it has not translated over to the market. BUT that does not mean that what they are teaching and how they are teaching it is not DOPE.

[@prodalib1]

A lot of them are trying to sell u shit. Some are great but almost every video has become an ad.

[@synthetiKofficial]

Recommended KZbin teacher and talented producer - Mr. Bill ; absolute genius

[@o_gzimusic3244]

Real talk fam...Shout out to Mr. BILL 💯

[@emanuel_soundtrack]

the same i think about composers. I am happy to have more music done to show than flufff, or „ see what i am doing“

[@garycummingsjr.6896]

Nick Mira and Ave Macree have placements with major label artist. Others put more of a focus on KZbin and teaching. Plus KZbin garners more of a faithful followers.

[@b2icebeats]

Your content is always incredible bro. It kills me that you don’t have a bigger following but I feel it’s coming soon if you keep it going with videos like this!

[@Eczentrik]

Ive been actually thinking the same thing lately.. nobodys an actual artist with the exception of a few...

[@BrianAndersonTT]

Now, it would be awesome if you do a part 2 to this video focused on music marketing "gurus".

[@davelordy]

A lot of these music production KZbinrs are also on the game, working the streets, I've personally been noshed off by a few different music production KZbinrs in the toilets of King's Cross train station here in the UK.

[@GabeMillerMusic]

I was expecting this to be a roast that I wouldn't like but I was pleasantly surprised. I definitely find myself caught between spending a lot of time on music and spending a lot of time making videos/reviewing gadgets, but a lot of the time, if I'm honest, the videos are a Trojan horse for the music.

[@au5music]

I straight up can’t make content if I’m using something I’m not personally excited about, regardless of the monetary incentive.

[@au5music]

@EMMANUEL this aint your channel go away

[@Beatsbasteln]

i think it's just that we don't even expect them to release music. dan worrall once released an album and i just couldn't listen to it with open ears because i recognized all those parts from the tutorials so it felt more like a tech demo. ofc i know it can still secretly be an honest piece of music, but when the musician's image does not fit that makes it harder to transport pure emotion. another important aspect is: people are getting older, so you might learn more and more techniques every day but you are also losing touch with most recent trends if you are unlucky. you end up knowing useful things but you can still not solve the puzzle yourself, so to say

[@JakeyWakey]

My "production channel" started doing pretty good for so few videos. Then i felt that i needed more music out there to feel comfortable talking about my "expertise"

[@GourlieRecords]

Interesting take, I enjoyed the commentary you should definitely do more videos like this when you have time. I've often thought about this as a content creator who very seldom releases his own tracks and also have some additions to reinforce everything you've said... not that anyone probably cares to read it 😉 There's a huge economic side to this whole thing. It's insanely hard and expensive to market Spotify streams at a sustainable level. Andrew Southworth for example has made his whole KZbin channel about marketing Spotify streams and he has results to prove it works, but the monetary return on investment does not exist. He is also an electrical engineer and has a huge modular setup so I'm guessing he has a budget to lose money on promoting Spotify streams. I've always been curious to see his whole profit/loss on his promotions, but regardless his whole thing is about growth not profit but if that's what it takes to keep up then there is a huge financial barrier to entry. Spotify is becoming a lame metric for "success" because sans promotional budget it's very hard to get anyone to find your page given the current methods of finding new music and triggering algorithms to even have the system recognize you exist. It almost becomes a pay to play where success is tied to promotional budget and less to the quality of the music. I think the most important metric of success is how the person making the content/music is bringing fulfillment to themselves through their craft, however that may be. And if they truly suck, no one would even follow their KZbin pages... the internet is not shy to point out shenanigans when they see it! Another aspect is that obviously if you have a large following then redirecting people to your Spotify gets a bit easier, but even some of these large channels like Andrew Huang and Venus Theory who don't have massive stream quantities despite huge followings also derives from the fact people don't universally follow those channels for their music but rather to find inspiration and perhaps learn something. But even getting that following in the first place requires you to build an audience doing something interesting in the first place (ie making production/tutorial videos) so the core audience isn't built around their music (unless of course an artist builds their KZbin around their finished musical content but it's hard to be discovered doing this vs making a video about a topic people are searching for). This also ties into the economic side where earning $X from a KZbin video from ad revenue/sponsorships/etc is more valuable than earning pennies from streams so time is more financially reward if spent on content creation because there are only so many hours in the day. Plus it then becomes measurable that people would rather hear you talk then listen to your music (I've never listened to your Spotify, for example but have seen a few of your videos... subscribing after this one btw) 😝 Me personally, I struggle with deciding if something is even good enough to release. I've released around 5 tracks or so on Spotify under my own artist names but have deleted all but the most recent because not only have my production skills increased tremendously over the years to where I now hear everything wrong with old tracks, but also the brand and goals of what I want to be as an artist is constantly changing and while I'm still building a vision for what I want my music to be, it doesn't stop the fact that I'm growing and creating music every day. I've also fought this battle my whole career as a graphic designer, it's just a plight of being an artist that I think a lot of us struggle with. Love the quote from DaVincI "Art is never finished, only abandoned." Needless to say I don't even market my music on streaming platforms because it's not where I'm trying to invest my time and effort because there is no return, at the moment. If I post a short track concept on KZbin or Instagram people hear it, give feedback, and follow, sometimes even want to collaborate without having to pay a dime to promote those videos. I post a full track on Spotify and no one hears it unless I pay to promote it one way or another. Plus I don't care to grow on a platform that doesn't serve me and that takes revenue generated off the backs of artists and then gives that money to sign podcasters. Tidal is trying to change the game on that but last time I used it their algorithm for discovering music outside of what they wanted you to listen to was basically non-existent. The way people are consuming is changing and the way to reach those consumers is different. For example I listen to music everyday, but I only open Spotify maybe twice a month now otherwise I listen to live performances or music videos on KZbin of smaller artists I enjoy that would never be recommended on Spotify. Plus I'm then directly connected with their Patreons/Bandcamps/etc and can support them more directly. Also going back to Andrew Huang for a moment, look at his SpaceTime album. One track has 500k listeners but the next highest is 50k and it drops off significantly from there, but when he made that video series of him on his ship he got millions of combined views on KZbin, received sponsorship/ad money, grew his following, and also delivered his music to people's ears at the same time. It was like an educational musical and was completely brilliant. The best any of us can do is just adapt, respond, and do what we personally think is best for our careers. I've also been keeping other producers and artists close to make sure that as I grow they grow with me which I think is one of the most important powers anyone with a following can yield. Look at the origins of Kyle Beats propping up Simon Servida early on in Simon's career which catapulted him forward. Kyle even posted a poll about it recently asking if "Simon should be considered his son" or something like that 🤣 Apologies for the essay, I actually copied this whole comment and pasted it as a draft video script. I just really enjoy this topic and economics of this industry/individual artists and could talk about it for hours. I spend a lot of time drawing up/updating my business plan and I'm entering into year 2 and so far I'm on track... a bit ahead of schedule even. Maybe I'll make a blog post about it, the ones I have get more views than my Spotify because appearing on Google searches is also free 🙃 Well I didn't know I'd stay up until 1am writing this, you've just inspired me I guess. Stay breezy! 🙌

[@Cruzer3x]

I release instrumentals in lofi, Synthwave & i done a producer compilation with artists on my beats done by me via Spotify. I just started focusing on KZbin this year. I kept putting it off in the last few years because I always knew that with YT I MUST BE CONSISTENT on it. I can honestly say that I really appreciate the KZbin producers so much more from doing it this year. YT is a lot more harder compared to Spotify in my experience because you have to constantly plan content, schedule release and be on it consistently, editing itself takes a lot of time out of the Day, not to mention topics to do, knowing keywords, hashtags & getting the videos out there to an audience. Spotify you can release music as a producer for an example a 4 song project, you can rotate every song to push for a month &’do that for about 2-3 months and do another release or find genre labels to do releases through &’depending on the label it’s possible they’ll do promo for you too. Though YT is much harder to do compare to Spotify, YT rewards you much better than Spotify because the monthly listeners as you mentioned people will judge you off that alone without wanting to check the music out & plus they don’t really mean anything it’s just what you done in the last 30 days. Great topic & im glad you defended them ✊🏽🐉

[@darrengordon-hill]

YES!! Especially the ones that comment a lot

[@shocktnc]

"Ave Mcree is a great critical reviewer (shows video of him playing MPC Key)" Damn that did not age well.

[@Ast3rixMusic]

I agree youtube is crazy hard and music production is a niche category. Video production is a skill in itself and it requires time to edit and really pull together information to make a good video. It’s hard promoting yourself and trying to provide content together that will grab attention in the category. It’s not something you should take lightly. You have to be dedicated to doing it and have time to make it successful.

[@DashGlitch]

100% I think a lot of us "music youtubers" have also realized the futility of Spotify, it doesn't bring much to the table and for me I only ever find that it dilutes the audience. Anyone with a device can stream on KZbin with lossless audio, so especially for us who care about the quality of music, I think the choice is obvious :) great points though, you baited me good and proper haha

[@MartinDerTolle]

KZbin isn't lossless. But I agree that the quality is good enough, that you can't really tell. If the uploader didn't mess with the quality that is

[@DashGlitch]

@@MartinDerTolle it can be if you encode with the correct settings. Quictime AAC can hold lossless audio, which doesn't decode on downstream except if your on a modile device or low-signal wifi. I've done several null tests, so has Dan Worral - very highly regarded engineer ;)

[@Tropic420x]

Every time i hear about music KZbinrs without good music, i think about you as a great counterexample.

[@Tropic420x]

Every time i hear about music KZbinrs without good music, i think about you as a great counterexample.

[@emiel333]

You are good. I like that. Keep up the good work my friend!

[@sentimentaltrash]

I always thinking of the saying of “those who can’t do, teach”. And while I don’t agree with that 100%; there’s definitely two sets of skills. I appreciate someone who’s maybe not as good production wise or has had hits but can teach really well vs the opposite. So cheers for the KZbin’s who while I might not resonate with their music but have taught me to vibe with my own. That being said Benn Jordan absolutely slaps, and definitely rank mr bill high up there!!

[@MistahChante]

Whats up bro. Hope all is well. Not sure if you remember me but I don't think I seen you since HCC. Keep up the content. Love this channel.

[@Weaverbeats]

Ay thank you man. How have you been? Hope you've been well. It's been a while

[@TheTsupul]

I’m a producer and sound engineer and I don’t have time to make videos, I’m busy producing and mixing for clients. I do enjoy the occasional tip/insight and I appreciate it when professionals take the time to share their knowledge

[@veryimportantpp]

Meanwhile Frank Pole being a f-ing dork on youtube while having over 40 million streams on spotify 😂

[@Weaverbeats]

damn i didn't know he was rolling in the streams like that

[@SamuelHereAmI]

Interesting. I appreciate it!

[@needfortweed8734]

I have watched videos by Andrew Huang and Venus Theory. Venus Theory showcases some interesting plugins and a bit of musical knowledge, and I would consider Andrew Huang more of a multimedia artist. The attraction to the latter for me is the way he thinks creatively, his process. From a weird sound to a fledged out piece or music, and the presentation of the journey. For instance, Spacetime. Very interesting concept, fascinating to see how he used his music in that, but to me not much of that music as a separate entity is probably ok. Another Huang video is the one where he recorded stuff on a frozen lake. Once again, the process and the mindset of his is what constitutes the entertainment for me. He is also insanely productive and have a truckload of albums on spotify. To sort through that to find the gems would take more time than I would like. It is kind of like the deal with Frank Zappa to me. I am not comparing Zappa and Frank as they are completely different beasts. Frank Zappa had a lot of catchy good stuff, but he also had a lot of that didn't speak to me. Another insanely productive musician us buckethead. I have maybe seen ten videos or so which he had some kind of involvement in, but usually the main attraction isn't mr. Head himself, but rather the collaborators. The only stuff by Andrew Huang I have listened to on Spotify is the 1st of October album he made with Rob Scallon. There were a few nice ditties there. If we're thinking purely economics, focusing on KZbin as opposed to Spotify makes sense as well. I think KZbin pays better than spotify per 1000 plays, and you can do brand deals as well if you get large enough. If we're talking about "regular producers" (as opposed to Andrew Huang style) I also much prefer KZbin. I watch every Bishu and Eliminate video, but the process is what is interesting to me. The road from concept to track. Or weird sample to track. Bishu has been branching out to Twitch, but I don't have the patience to sit through a multiple hour stream. I can much more easily fit a 30 minute video into my day. So I am using KZbin to get that stuff as well..

[@beatsbybeto]

Love your Content Bro

[@RickDrift]

I know andrew has a bandcamp, and simon as well puts together magpie pirate compilations all the time, but there are a few production youtubers that I always questioned this about. People making production videos but I would almost never listen to these artists on my own will.

[@DixonBeats]

Interesting video man, keep up the good work! 🙌🏻

[@Sey_Les]

I just wanna make music. Not be famous. But the KZbin hustle got me thinking weird lol.

[@johnnygarcia6359]

A very legitimate question. So glad you covered the topic!

[@DJKingJames504]

Don't forget Simon Servida. He's a great producer as well. And Ocean. Too many to list. Great video.

[@NewcarsTv]

why do people always point out the bad side of people but not the Good side

[@Weaverbeats]

you didnt watch past 2 minutes did you 😬

[@michaels8088]

I take what i need from people, online and off, and i weigh it for myself, because ultimately, i think for myself. Being a person who has his own gear, can do his own videos, can take his own stills and who can do his own IT work, i look for authenticity. The only thing i will not tolerate is content creators or their followers thinking they can flame or insult others for not agreeing with their content/comments.

[@darryldouglas6004]

The reason I subscribe to your channel is because you will point out the crap products. Too many times I click on what is supposedly a tutorial on X. (Compression, EQ etc.) Then within seconds they say you need Y plugin and it will improve your mix so much and so easily just by slapping it on everything. Where is the filtered excellence? It’s such a slog navigating through what is essentially non stop marketing to get to something useful. It has jaded me to the point where I don’t buy any plugins. If I can’t get it for free I’ll find a way to do it with stock plugins. 😃

[@beepst]

Well, it’s like teachers. They got the knowledge and spread it, but they don’t necessarily have a job in the field they’re teaching.

[@darrengordon-hill]

"Woke up and chose violence" Beats

[@Weaverbeats]

nah if anything i chose peace!

[@darrengordon-hill]

@@Weaverbeats Woke up and saw no feedback about track, and it's the first of the month so wanna give you full time to work your magic

[@2changotb]

Nice video weaver, really well put together.

[@Mugicha808]

In the band/orchestra world, many top class and first chair musicians aren't really good at teaching. And on the flipside, there are many that are garbage at their instruments yet are absolute gods of theory and teaching.

[@ChazSeamus28]

I listen to DJ Ave Mcree on spotify in the car or while I'm cleaning, Marlow Diggs has some good stuff too

[@IhorMedia]

KZbin takes a lot of time! And its fine not to have music released out there. Nice topic! Thanks for covering this one.

[@treyhudson73]

Cameron (Venus Theory) does more sound design and "commercial" music stuff! 😁

[@frankymino8773]

I'm not sure if "fraud' would be the term I'd use... Though there are way too many youtubers claiming they are "music producers' when in fact they are far from it. A music producer is a well acclaimed and established creator of the logistics in recording an album. They essentially act as the manager for the entire process and have worked and released countless artists who have hit the mainstream charts around the world. You also have those within the film industry and orchestral but will not delve into that. The problem nowadays is people purchase daw's, make a beat via midi and samples, (with no knowledge of how to play an instrument), post it on their youtube channel and claim they are producers/mixing and mastering engineers then try and teach the audience how to become the jack of all trades and become a songwriter and artist etc..... with no real portfolio to back them. Just because I purchased a camera and start taking photo's doesn't make me a photographer. These youtubers are not 'producers'. They are youtubers who are in essence 'producing' content that interests them and hoping to make a buck out of it. A real music producer doesn't have time for making youtube content unless they have fulfilled their career or retired and want to share some of their knowledge. I know which channel I would rather follow.

[@DNYLNY]

I watch KZbinrs for tips and see how they make music. But I don’t listen to any of their music. I look at them more like teachers.

[@userout8446]

Thats my point of view too

[@draggabeats]

I did trip out at first when these KZbin creators would get free stuff from companies to highlight on their channel. It just felt odd that musicians who aren’t in the RIAA space are getting the same amount of views as some mainstream music artists. But now I’ve realized that there is more than one way to making it doing music. Bottom line is that if feeds you well, you’re good.

[@WrvrUgoThrUR]

Regardless people still learn a lot from these users and we get to demo gear vicariously. I can’t tell you how many pieces of gear I’ve decided to purchase based on a KZbin video..

[@SsgtHolland]

The Music Production business is very much like the Photography business. There is almost no money to be made producing music, just like there is no money to be made from photography. But a lot of people still hope and thus believe there is. And that is why there is money to be made selling tutorials, samples and plugins. That is the market.

[@domdraper3221]

There is crap loads of money doing production. You have to be properly trained and know what you are doing though. These guys doing KZbin tutorials aren't trained and they certainly don't have the experience needed to do any better than the average Joe with a computer and some cheap headphones.

[@saviwaves5337]

are you sure that it's not that most people don't know how to run a business and have unreasonable expectations?

[@barrytheartist.]

Really like the content I’ve seen , keep it up your contents great 🔥🤞

[@DJJohnnyTapia]

Good points. Getting listeners always been hard and so is making content.

[@irishmossdubwise]

That's self evident

[@bren7883]

I think another reason some of these guys have no music is the weird focus on acquiring gear. You burn so much energy worrying about your next purchase, and once you get it all music making stops, because now you have a new piece of gear to learn. Now you have to make multiple KZbin videos about the new gear. I’m sure most of these guys hold down 9-5s and probably have families. I can see how making actual music can fall to the side

[@Weaverbeats]

true

[@Cartman-Official]

If we focus on YT producers that are sponsored by fraud companies or YT producers that act extra excited about something because they are paid to that's whole another topic lol. Shout out to Ave Mcree tho he is one of the ppl that don't give a fuck he tells what he really feels about products

[@pwho405]

That's why I watch his videos. Bro keeps it 💯

[@tyzobloom]

just bc they know how to mix doesn't mean they make music people WANT to hear. Or just like what you said they make beats for other artists! I'm actually moving the opposite. I come from an artist route going into youtube :)

[@SolarHeavy]

I love doctors with print out credentials too

[@ItsJustAdrean]

This makes me feel better about not having basically any spotify plays. I make a lot of beats and apparently the casual listener market on spotify doesn't care about that. Most of my audience is on Newgrounds

[@Backtotheshadowsagain]

I experiment a lot. All my training was as a drummer in a rock band so adjusting to the electronic stuff is hard. I'd eventually like to release some jams on youtube, but I'm not trying to monetize or get views. I can't give lessons, except on drums, and my living situation does not support a drumset. Thanks to Anne-Kathrin Dern and a few others, I've transitioned into experimenting with making scores now. Some scores require nearly 60 gigs of RAM just to load, and since I am rather poor, I cannot afford the two-computer setup that she has. Just got a Microfreak, gonna run it through my guitar rig and probably produce some ambient jams. If you love music and make music how can you be a fraud?

[@zanza8651]

Promoting your music sucks because music lovers tend to appreciate music they discover and not music they are promoted to. But without promoting your music you get nowhere in the music industry. So for most artists the only solution is creating content and not making music continuously.

[@Ewoof]

I used to make beat making videos. I wanted to give back to the community and to mainly gain a music fanbase. I stopped because that wasn't the content I wanted to make, I wanted to make music and films. I was also slowly thinking like a youtuber instead of an artist. My channel was getting subscribers for my content not my music. Therefore, I have no good reasoning on why majority of my subscribers should care if I drop something. So yeah, I am officially an artist and not turning back.