My In-Laws Are Not Happy I Won't Let My Children Be Baptised r/Relationships

[@LadyTeaBlossom]

My mom is muslim, my dad is atheist. They never forced their views and beliefs on any of us and let us discover our own. When I was around 10 I started showing interest in Islam and started praying with my mom, attending the mosque, and practising religious holidays/celebrations. My dad didn't discourage me or tell my mom to stop as he saw it taught me lessons and values like discipline, empathy, and to appreciate what I had. After two years, I started spending more time with my dad and we talked about religion in general and told me about other religions. He never badmouth any of them and only gave me examples and written rules that we both agreed didn't make sense/seem unreasonable. I sat in my thoughts for a while and did my own research before deciding to leave Islam. My mom wasn't mad and said she can't control what I believed, my dad even asked if I was sure cuz he didn't want to be the reason I left. Although I am atheist I still join my mom during Ramadan and certain religious holidays in support.

[@robertx8020]

Your parents sound awesome ..but I feel they are more of an exeption than a rule

[@captainlevi7188]

I left Islam because I wanted to raise a dog...my dad's side are radicals.....beginning with dog...a lot of other things prompted me to leave and question it ....these piled upto d3@th threats....thank God I live in a 1st world country...I was able to run away.

[@Goodfood717]

Very brave of you to have openly left Islam.

[@HonorWillow]

I like that because it sounds like it was always your choice and you knew you had options as opposed to this story where I think the in laws and husband made the kids believe Christianity

[@Onewith24]

Whata wholesome parents, you have. And I know some ppl still joining families on Ramadan, not nessacerily because of belief, but more because of traditional or family matter.

[@geminidawn7315]

Story 1. They had a shotgun wedding because of husbands parents religious beliefs and she said yes and then she's shocked that her in-laws taught them their religion and that her husbands still religious. She's not very bright. I can't help bur feel other Atheist cringing.

[@thebirdchannelforfans623]

I am an atheist, pretty hardcore actually and cringing hard

[@vanzy01]

🤷

[@mkuti-childress3625]

Personally, I don’t think it’s a terrible thing to show some respect to your inlaws’ religion. This is an opportunity for OP to talk about religion with their kids, maybe talk about other religious beliefs, and also talk about atheism and why OP is an atheist. Also, and I admit I’m guilty of this, as well, it seems like almost everyone in the comments equated religion and religious beliefs with total nut jobs and cults. It’s just not the case most of the time. I know people who are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc., and in my experience people are all pretty much the same. Some are pushy, some are cruel, some are caring and intelligent and open minded. Some aren’t the best representatives for their religion. The most important thing, no matter what religion you do or don’t have is to teach your children to respect other people’s beliefs and to learn to listen with respect.

[@thebirdchannelforfans623]

@@mkuti-childress3625 as much as I don’t agree with religion, I do think there’s something to be said about respecting someone’s religion. I’m surprised that given that OP is an atheist, husband is a Christian who does not go to church, and the grandparents are quite religious and are pastors at that, no one discussed different religions with the kids, particularly OP. Also, why would the OP expect the grandparents to just not go to church on Sunday if they are as devout as they are, one weekend maybe but for a whole month or more?

[@toysruskid5074]

@@mkuti-childress3625 that's because evangelicals ARE the crazies. It's like a giant red flag. The kids won't learn about other religions because evangelicals drill in that just learning about them is a path to hell

[@bdhesse]

The first story was weird. As an atheist myself, why would you expect kids to pick a religion later on if you're not willing to teach them about the religions that are out there. My oldest is 6 and I've been teaching her bit by bit since she was 3. Now that she's older, we're getting into the actual arguments for and against the existence of god(s). She can't make an informed decision if she's never, you know, informed. And why is nobody in that family communicating with each other? Also, at 10 and 12, why do they need a babysitter?

[@frozezone2947]

You can't leave kids at the age of 10 alone in the house

[@bdhesse]

@@frozezone2947 Yes you can if they are with a 12 year old. Most places, that's the age when you can get a babysitting certificate (although a babysitter does not need a certificate to babysit). I got mine at 11 after I'd already been babysitting for a few years. By ten, they should be able to make themselves food safely, be able to call for help if needed, and know not to unlock/open the door for anyone.

[@spinmaster0]

@@frozezone2947 Depends on what country. UK, you cannot leave them alone at that age in an unsafe environment, so it is subjective. But 12 year old should slowly start to be taught to handle themselves in the house and be given responsibilities.

[@spinmaster0]

@@bdhesse Just saw your message after I replied. Agreed, your reply is better.

[@frozezone2947]

@BD Hesse You cannot leave your kids at the age of *10* alone in the house

[@janicewilcox8590]

The scar thing is a bit like punching someone else, getting punched back in self defense and then screaming "I can't believe you hit me" at the person you assaulted first.

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #2: Kids under the age of 18 can't make and be held to legal contracts, so the 12-year-old is off the hook. Sorry-not sorry, OP.

[@ajaxjohnson7999]

While I kinda agree with that, OP should have never gotten the pool to begin with! If the daughter wanted a pool so bad OP should have driven her ass to the public pool then

[@DisneyChar]

Dangerously close to telling kids all those school contracts they sign aren't binding

[@paulastiles5507]

@@DisneyChar The kids aren't, but the parents are.

[@jrytacct]

Well, that's no problem then. The parents can just get rid of the pool, and then tell her that's she off the hook to pay them back as there's no pool anymore. And the daughter can go back to having no pool to swim in. Problem solved.

[@paulastiles5507]

@@DisneyChar Just noticed that, did you? There are reasons why the school has a parent/guardian sign permission slips and waivers for things like school trips. That's one of them.

[@Russman67]

Story 2: So OP took a verbal agreement from a 12-year-old and thought that would fly. Honestly, get the pool because you wanted a pool. Don't get the pool because you think yout teenage child is going to pay you back for it. That's just stupid. YTA

[@tinapetrovicz9741]

Story 1 - What is with some the comments? Both parents need to agree with kids going to church or getting baptized. Personally I think it is better for people to make those decisions as adults. My daughter went sometimes with Grandparents to church, but I also talk to her about other religions and atheisim. The only thing I talked negatively about was cults so she was aware that there are sketchy people who call themselves a religion.

[@xplayfan21]

I am surprised that in the update we found out the husband knew about the church stuff that the OP didn't dumping I would have

[@ivy456]

@@xplayfan21 It seems like OP isn't that bright. Husband was in it with the parents from the start and she's glossing over it. Ofcourse he's happy, he's getting what he planned to do from the start.

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1: As someone who was raised in a literal cult, I get OP's concerns. It severely messed a lot of us up, was hard to get out of, and took a long time to shake and figure out what I believed for myself, not what I was brainwashed into "believing." I was baptized when I was 6. I, too, want my kids to choose for themselves. But I HAVE had conversations about religion with them, answered any questions they have, told them there are multiple different ones, and that just because I am on thing doesn't mean they have to be. S3: NTA. You got looks because she had covered her scar with makeup, so they didn't realize that she actually did have the same one and you were asking a legitimate question, not just retaliating to make her sound like an AH (which she is). She played stupid games, won stupid prizes, and turned into a bully at the first opportunity. She did you a favor by revealing her true colors. I'd drop the friendship? Relationship?

[@CanyonALynn]

I was also born in and grew up in a high control religious group. I always told myself that if I ever had kids, I would talk to them about different religions/spiritual beliefs and warn them about cults/high control groups. But most importantly, I wouldn't 'indoctrinate' them into a particular belief/non-belief and let them decide for themselves when they were older. I believe OP messed up big time about not having that conversation with her kids early on and letting them stay with their pastor parents every week, expecting the in laws not to take them to church and try ti get them baptized. OP dropped the ball on that.

[@lynnw7155]

If OP is going to let her in-laws help raise her kids (every weekend), the in-laws GOING TO teach them things that are important to the in-laws. The kids seem old enough to decide about things like going to church or even getting baptized. It's not a permanent thing; I was baptized and went to church as a child and it didn't brainwash me (I'm agnostic now).. NOT LETTING your children go to church is as bad as forcing them to go.

[@KE-hr4sb]

@@lynnw7155 I don't disagree. I was explaining why I can see OP is worried, but she done fucked up. She seems to think keeping them from religion is the same thing as letting them choose not to be religious, and it isn't. Also, her edit at the end where she is pouting because everyone is doing family religious time and "I guess the in-laws got what they wanted" makes it clear she wanted them to pick what SHE wanted, not what they wanted. As for getting baptized, my point was I was too young to think or choose it for myself.

[@notconvincedgranny6573]

Story 1: anything requires two yeses; one no and it's a no-go. Hubby should not have let his parents indoctrinate the kids; he sees it as harmless because that's what he went through, and now look at him! 🤣

[@justcause9334]

How is one indoctrination worse than another? The Dad went one way the Mom was going another. There are a lot of issues here. 1. Why would an Atheist marry a Christian? There is going to be issues between them, especially when it comes to raising children. 2. Mom doesn't want anything to do with the IL, again why did you marry into that family? 3. They forced us to do this and that. No they didn't force you to get married, they didn't force you to pray at dinner, they didn't force you to bring your children every weekend. You chose to allow all of these things. Now she is complaining about your own choices.

[@robertx8020]

@@justcause9334 1. Why would a christian marry a atheist? Why would anyone EVER marry when there is a (however small) chance you break up anyway? 2 Because love can be blind? I everyone looked at a relation in a 100% logical way, most relations would not happen. 3.OP never said 'forced' so I don't know how you got to that? She stated 'trying to push us into..." you don't know the difference? And yes it WAS a stupid mistake to make the grandparents watch the kids .,.this was expected!

[@justcause9334]

@@robertx8020 1. I personally don't know why anyone would get married, adding more issues to the marriage will increase the chance of divorce. Most get married because it is what they were taught to do growing up. People that choose not to get married are often judged by family and friends for not doing what is considered normal. 2. If people looked at it logically most relationships would last. Decisions based on emotions usually end bad. 3. OP (did say forced) either way she made it out that she had to go along with what the IL wanted, call it forced or pushed into it, either way she opened the door for what is happening now. (Forced husband to propose, tried to make us, forced us to pray when we have dinner).

[@robertx8020]

@@justcause9334 1. true but that doesn't stop ppl marrying the 'wrong one' 2. the handful that would still get into one? sure You can't always find a 100% match and can NEVER predict the future so if you want to be sure? you can't enter a relation! 3. "OP did say forced" tell me where! 'tried to' is key here! Not 'succeeeded' !

[@thethirdtime9168]

@@justcause9334 Damn this is a reminder for me why America is such a shitshow. Dividing marriage and partners based on religions? Are you seriously that narrow minded? How the fuck does it add more issues into the marriage? Just fucking respect each other's experiences, why does everything have to be black and white?

[@kaykay8855]

Story 3: NTA. She exposed your insecurities so op exposed hers. Don’t dish out what you can’t take.

[@paulinadeboer3604]

Nope a scar by a man is called cool and many Girls like the one that made a nice comment are attractive to man with scars. (Because it gives a badboy vibe) that was his girlfriend trying to prevent. It had nothing to do with his insecurity. For Girls a scar is different, a girl with a scar is considerd damaged good. And yes that is not fair, but it is how this world rock. What he said was way over the top. If he realy was so insecure he could hide his scar to. Personaly i think HE liked the attention from this girl. And got angry about what his girlfriend said. It was petty revenge.

[@kaykay8855]

@@paulinadeboer3604 she said his scar made him look like a creep. She made an unnecessary comment about his appearance and he returned the favor.

[@paulinadeboer3604]

@@kaykay8855 i know but what would you do if an another woman is gussing over your bf scar.. her comment indicate jealousy, his comment was malicious to humiliate her..

[@kaykay8855]

@@paulinadeboer3604 jealousy isn’t a good reason to humiliate someone or bring up their insecurities. If you don’t want someone to bring up your insecurities then you don’t bring up theirs. Jealous is not.

[@stuporspoon]

Story 1: OP's main issue RN is that this problem has not been resolved. She's punishing the in-laws far more harshly than her own husband for the exact same transgression -- going behind her back to introduce religion to her children. The kids don't want to find another religion or go to another church because they're not interested in religion itself; they're interested in the friendly, welcoming community that offered them special coloring books, new friends, and the "right" answer. Dad backed OP into this corner from the get-go, and now only he is harvesting the fruits of his deceit.

[@Uneclipsed]

Spot on. If her goal in raising her kids without religion was to prevent them from being indoctrinated as children, she could have made more of an effort to teach them about religion earlier. Husband was in the background saying he was Christian but using his parent’s religiosity as a shield for his own so he wouldn’t be in the doghouse with his wife. If OP was so anti-Christianity, why did she get married for puritanical reasons? Nothing against religion, but Evangelicals are crazy. She could have nipped this in the bud a long time ago, but doesn’t seem to be aware of what’s going on in her own home

[@miramyth2971]

Damn, you make a great point and phrased it beautifully. 👏👏

[@aikikaname6508]

Exactly! The in-laws didn’t go behind the parents back, they took them with the full consent and knowledge of the kids father. It was OPs husband who went against his wife and lied to her

[@PaintSplashProductions]

Exactly! She just glossed over that so fast. If I was in her situation I would’ve left that jerk and take the kids far away from that toxic family

[@politereminder6284]

She's still an A hole. Her kids are old enough to be introduced to religion. She was acting oblivious. 🙄

[@AngharadMac]

Story 2 made me realize how much my parents f'd me up because I was all like "Why wouldn't she have to pay her parents back if she gave her word?" Then I was going "You mean there are parents that don't hold you to your promises if you were underage? Interesting."

[@crisrodriguez5693]

If it was a smaller amount of money, she should pay. In theory, yes, you're supposed to keep you promises, that's what would normally happen. But when we're talking about thousands of dollars she "immediately" agreed to pay when she was 12, yeah... in that case it's really obvious she went into it without understanding what it meant, and that deal never should have happened.

[@KateeAngel]

parents should't ever demand their kids pay them back for anything if those are underage. The power dynamic makes it questionable. Also kids have no obligation for their parents, parents forced them into existence in this world, in which it is hard to survive, and now demand anything back? nah

[@0HellcatMary0]

@@KateeAngel I mean, if they actually raised you to understand how the world works, and instilled you with values and ethics that are demonstrably enriching your life, then I would say the owing is in embodying those values to make pragmatic choices and pay your debts, even if the debt is to your parents. The difference is that "debts" are scaled way, way, way down for children, and should be bartered for the sole purpose of teaching children personal accountability (and maybe actual evaluation of cost/reward). You barter with children for chores, responsibilities regarding the thing they want, or their attention and empathy towards the person gifting them... not cold, hard, unobtainable cash. That also just teaches them to put a price sticker on life. However, asking nothing of your children because they don't "owe" you for giving birth to them would lead to entitled little assholes with no discipline or accountability.

[@unholysporkable]

As a woman who has a lot of scars, I have always said Scars are life's lessons, learned the hard way.

[@moonyollie6977]

Story 3: NTA. Get a better friend, she sounds like one of those girls who wished to be one of the mean girls in school, and is now trying to catch up.

[@browhattheactualfu-2659]

Yeah there was no way Op's husband didn't know about the sunday school thing

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

I'd have divorced him.

[@sazzaxeight3124]

Reckon he's secretly like his parents and planned to indoctrinate the kids and force the wife to become Christian. Not a great Christian considering the lying and manipulation going on there. Honestly though if it wasn't for her getting pregnant they never would have married in the first place, he's probably been downplaying the religion stuff to keep op around but always planned on the kids being baptised.

[@kevinclark495]

was thinking that myself

[@browhattheactualfu-2659]

@@Kimberly_Sparkles Yeah I'm all for healthy communication and not divorcing off a whim but hiding anything about something related to my children would mark the end for me too

[@WobblesandBean]

@@Kimberly_Sparkles Same. His whole family is toxic, why did she agree to marry him knowing he only proposed cuz his fanatical parents forced him to? For the sake of her kids, she needs to run.

[@ComaLies225]

Story 2: YTA. How the heck do you even think to agree with a LITERAL CHILD and expect A CHILD to pay for half the pool? How the heck did this woman get through in life?????

[@CrimsonAngelWinges]

Story 1 at the very least OP needs to make her husband pick a church with absolutely no contact to his parents.

[@LisaApril]

Story one: holy cow. If my husband betrayed me the way this husband has I don’t think I could forgive him. He was actively involved in something his wife was expressly against and he did it while colluding with the in-laws when his wife expressly told him she didn’t want her children learning those things. That is definitely divorce worthy. When I was in my 20s I started researching the worlds religions. I did it because I was interested in understanding the prophets and philosophies of the world in different times and in different cultures. The more I learned the more I loved all the prophets who spoke about the reality of things beyond what we can see, and what values to uphold for peaceful living and for ultimate freedom and liberation. To take this away from a person by indoctrinating them when they’re still in elementary school seems a shame to me. I did choose a philosophy to live by and I’ve been lucky enough to have genuine teachers. The most important thing really is to have a truly genuine teacher Who teaches others because she or he feels compassion for them.

[@samiulhuda4001]

so what if the wife is against it. she is the one hard lining here refusing to accommodate. pretty sure he is against OPs point of view as well. and the need to have things her way.

[@owl7072]

Story 1: Why am I not surprised that the husband knew the whole time and never bothered to tell Op 🙄 Edit: This is going to end in Op being alienated, I feel it in my bones. Also, why would it make Op the bad guy to teach them other religions now? Because the in laws will have a hypocritical tantrum about it? I'm pagan, I didn't start learning about it until I was 18, but that didn't stop me from learning then practicing it despite being raised Christian my whole life. There's nothing wrong with learning about other religions even if you've already picked one. I _love_ learning about the religions my friends follow despite not following myself.

[@Mkay999]

op herself says she “knows nothing about religion.” It’s kinda insane to have such hatred towards something you chose not to explore yourself. She knew her husband is Christian as well. If the children are interested and she is not, of course she will be left out 🤷🏼‍♀️ not exactly rocket science for having kids with a Christian man. He’s not forcing the kids to believe, like OP has tried to as well. She will try to force her kids to explore other things. It’s hilariously ironic

[@hunterjames8653]

Sounds like she should find religion

[@raptoress6131]

Story 1: OP is correct that it can open a door into worse stuff. I went to crazy religious meetings at 13 where they were "speaking in tongues" and "healing the sick". It left me feeling disturbed and luckily I was savvy enough to leave religion as a teenager.

[@jlyo1991]

It’s so interesting how different Protestant denominations put an emphasis on one part of the Godhead over the other two.

[@bridgetbenson6291]

I went to a televangelist church when I was young. The minute the preacher said he could cure women of their periods I knew he was full of it.

[@iasomnium919]

@@bridgetbenson6291 Lmao, if only it were possible.

[@dionysus_adores]

Yep grew up Catholic then suddenly I was baptized became the argument of why i couldn't do stuff or why i should do stuff. Or what to put up with. I was six

[@WhitneyDahlin]

lmao she's an idiot for marrying someone religious when she's so anti religion. If religion is a deal breaker why did you have kids with someone who is religious and assume they will never introduce religion to their kids??? Like wtf???

[@vampire9545]

They were manipulated INTO baptism class.

[@sophia6868]

OP in Story 1 made the mistake of not explaining multiple religions to her kids. My parents raised us non-religious but we were exposed to everything-the main religions, ancient pantheons, indigenous religions and creation stories. I was able to go to Church and not be swayed to be baptized. It was mostly pressure from my friends and my grandma for me to go to church in the first place-and I resented it. I’m so glad I was never baptized and that if I ever do it, it will be my choice. My husband and I will be repeating this exposure of religions and not allowing our kids to attend worship services until they are nearly legal adults, because we both felt peer pressure even when we were 15-17 was unhealthy. Our parents are also not allowed to speak about religion with our future kids because that is our place, and they don’t need to be swayed (especially from my MIL who is quite evangelical these last few years). I feel bad for the OP, but earlier exposure was necessary and her husband was being deceitful.

[@hilaryc3203]

No, earlier exposure is NOT necessary. Why muddle up a poor child's mind with rubbish? Teach them science and logic, that they can have a wonderful life full of love without being manipulated. They'll figure out the evils of religion in their own time, but why put them in difficult situations as little ones where their little brains are yanked around because at that age they lack the capacity to figure it out.

[@lilly_xox0244]

Weird question but what would you maybe say is one of the "better and more wholesome" of thr religions. I'd say that I'm more in a atheist leaning towards Satanism who still prays at the dinner table for my grandmother when she's over bag of trail mix lol

[@femboy__bunny]

@@hilaryc3203 hi, Hellenic pagan here. I got into paganism as a child because the gods were close to me and comforting, and I read all sorts of philosophy as a result as well. I’m a pagan but I also approach the world with logic and facts, as well as the scientific method, as a result. Not all religion is bad

[@hilaryc3203]

@@lilly_xox0244 None. They are all manipulative, controlling hypocrites. If you are leaning towards Satanist, then you are not an atheist. Satan is a fictitious being created by religion to take the blame for the evil that humans do. So, obviously, you are not an atheist. Following satanism is just sign that you are incapable, still, of finding your way in life on your own. The very ancient people. on the planet did not believe in gods. Instead they held nature and the energy of life (which exists and can be seen through neuroscience) in high regard. It's called animism.

[@hilaryc3203]

@@femboy__bunny You're still believing in gods; a notion that just can't be proven.They do not exist. Before the ancients believed in gods (gods were created as part of the invention of religion to control people) they followed animism - the belief in the energy of nature. No silly gods.

[@janespencer7864]

S1: She will end up alienated and ostracized from her family and probably divorced, because the husband broke their agreement and there will be lingering bitterness. The time to enlighten kids about all faiths is early and often, so an informed decision can be made at the appropriate age. That ship sailed.

[@ILJ68]

I’m just going to share my story as there are similar issues to the 1st story. I grew up in a Jewish household, my late husband, Catholic. Neither of us were religious. When our son was born, we decided that when he was older he could choose how and what he wanted to believe. He had a horrible birth. By the time he was two, it was clear he was not developing “normally” - I hate that term. He was eventually diagnosed with ADHD, Autism, Developmental Coordination Disorder with Dyspraxia and Global Developmental Delay. When he was 10, his daddy suddenly died. We were separated at the time, but I was still legally his next of kin. Unfortunately, his mate who found him contacted his family first. I was away for the weekend with the boy with my parents who had flown in from abroad for a visit. I found out he died from a blunt phone call from my MIL. Psycho SIL then TOLD me which Funeral Home to use and plans, DESPITE what husband had told me. I made many compromises as he never expected his mum to outlive him, but-they REFUSED to contribute ANYTHING to the costs except to go 50/50 on the reception which was basically all their friends and family and the Order of Service which they took charge of. I only saw it on the day-they had completely cut me out of it. It was like I didn’t exist. When I asked, they said they felt it was best that it was just blood family, especially as I was the one to separate from him. They then outright REFUSED to allow me to take OUR son to the funeral claiming he would ruin it for everyone else because of his disabilities. I was crushed but relented. As toxic as they are, my son deserved having his dad’s family in his life. I just wanted to keep the peace. The Headteacher at his school worked very hard with the boy to help him process his grief. When Bereavement Day came round, she asked me if she could take him to Church for the service. I agreed, and on the day he asked me to join them. He got so much out of it. The Catholic faith deeply resounded with him. His MLD Secondary was a Catholic School and his faith only deepened. I was asked to a meeting with the Head and the Priest (the Church is a short walk from the school) where he asked if it was okay that he be Baptised. Of course I agreed. ILs obviously overjoyed. Psycho SIL gets on me about who the godparents would be. I decided to let the kid pick. This was his choice. He asked his Dad’s youngest brother to be Godfather-unfortunately on the day he was away on hols, a good friend of mine stood for him but understood that BIL was his “official” godfather. For Godmother, my boy asked his former HT. It was she, after all, who had ignighted his faith. Psycho SIL went ballistic, said it needed to be family and I was the AH for not including them. Then she says she won’t be going as it was wrong and disrespectful. (This despite it being his choice) She then shows up half way through the ceremony with her phone out snapping pictures. 🙄 To this day she still brings this up. We are pretty LC now, and his relationship with his Godmother is very deep. I take him to church when he asks. He is happy. He is nearly 19 now.

[@SpiderkillersInc]

Catholic here. I am deeply moved by this story of a boy finding the faith. Here’s a suggestion for Christmas; get him some GK Chesterton. He was a famous Catholic author who has been enormously influential in English literature. He’s also been an influence in my faith. Start with perhaps the Father Brown stories. Another point, Godparents don’t have to be family. It’s traditional but it ultimately isn’t needed.

[@SwirlyPinwheel]

I was raised Polish Catholic since my mother's side was and went to Catholic school. There is no way in hell those kids aren't being manipulated. I was bored out of my fucking mind at Mass as a child. At 12 I was already ready to be out between the boredom and various religion-based traumas. Luckily my parents were never particularly religious, so I never had pressure from them. I smell something rotten and OP is nose-blind.

[@SilverstreamPJ28]

Story 1: well, stop leaving your kids with them every weekend? If they go to church every Sunday, of course the kids are going to be there too. Take care of your own damn kids.

[@joimumu]

Agree and Op sounds she is taking atheist to a cult level, those atheist are just as annoying as super religious people are

[@peteranon8455]

This is the real answer. OP's the one not raising their kids and leaving them in the care of religious people.... "Oh noes, they're religious now!"

[@SilverstreamPJ28]

@@peteranon8455 exactly lol. And her kids aren't toddlers, they aren't stupid. They chose to believe in god, now let them. And I say this as an atheist.

[@ruffr4bb1t]

Story 2 actually made me laugh at the absurdity. Bruh you said ‘gimme 2k’ to a 12 y/o what did you expect???? They don’t understand the complexity of pools in a household. It’s so stupid that my own nephew (same age) would totally agree with that deal not knowing what he’s getting himself into

[@littleolmee]

S1: I wouldn't call OP an AH but, I would call them very stupid for giving the grandparents so much unsupervised time with her kids without ever talking religion with them. I'd also study every religion I could find then make a religious study of it with everyone in the family including the other religions & show how much they all have in common including explaining Agnostic & Atheism. OP is still dropping the ball, but that's on them. S2: YTA. Who in the hell expects a child to pay for a pool? S3: NTA. Melissa started it, if she can't take it she shouldn't dish it out.

[@WobblesandBean]

It really frustrates me that people go to a toxic place like AITA to get life advice. They get it so, so wrong, so much of the time. Here is no different. OP is an idio† for trusting her in-laws, but she has every right to raise her kids atheist.

[@Olivia-ek9ib]

Except op claims she _doesn’t_ want to raise her kids atheist. In fact, she spends the first half of the post preening about how much better she is than everyone for allowing her kids to believe what they want, only to turn on them the second they choose a belief different than hers. She’s a hypocrite.

[@patricialacey6049]

I agree Reddit generally goes super Toxic really quickly with just a snippet of info. I think here all of OPs relationships are dysfunctional. Obviously with the in laws, but her husband too. By the end it felt to me like he was hiding his faith from her cause he knew she'd blow up. Probably told her what he had to in order to keep the peace. Which is wrong on both of them. He shouldn't have hid it, should have just been like hey you're atheism is your choice Christianity is mine and we can respect each other. And she shouldn't be so reactive that he felt like he had to hide it or risk a fight, divorce, losing his kids, etc., which was the vibe I got from OP. It just all sounds dysfunctional and lacking in communication skills as a group. And entitled to expect people to give up their jobs to babysit for her so she can go to hers. She just set herself up for it to happen.

[@jeffreed2848]

She has the right to do that, yes. But shes lying about what shes doing. She wants them to make their own choice when they are of age. But having them live athiest until then is forcing a choice upon them

[@AngelDeed]

@@jeffreed2848 you mean like billions of religious people do with their children? It's ridiculous that nobody has a problem with that but if one atheist wants to do the same, it's the end of the world suddenly.

[@jeffreed2848]

@Angelika the difference here is that the religious families are open about it. My own family was quite religious (catholic) but when my mom and aunts turned 18 they were allowed to practice how they saw fit. Op said she was raising them to be independently minded but was openly against them learning about religion. Thats not allowing them to form opinions like she says she is

[@dinobotsc2017]

Who the hell makes a deal with a 12 year old to pay for a pool

[@chrisidornigie]

Story 1: NTA, OP is betrayed by her husband and IL’s. I would’ve taken out the trash.

[@melissahaire7058]

It's the parent's choice regarding religion, period!! If they're not interested in any religion that a talk they need to have with their children! Grandparents really have no say!! But if you know your in-laws go to church on Sunday or whenever and you dump your children on them every weekend you can expect that your children will be attending church with them! If you don't want your children going to church, pay a sitter and stop dumping them on your in-laws!! Absolutely ridiculous!!

[@fallingawayfromthenorm]

Story 1 - As a former Catholic who has trauma from that shit, this is why I’d never marry a Christian. I am not going to subject any potential kids or myself against to that. The one Christian I dated as an adult who tried to get me to pray to Jesus when I was having a suicidal breakdown despite she knew I am not Christian was the nail in that coffin.

[@localkate]

Oh my god that's horrible. I'm sure she just had no idea what else to do and defaulted to thoughts and prayers, but man... If that was her way of trying to make you reconvert... Disgusting and predatory. Good on you for putting the nail in the coffin, ugh

[@morphinpink]

Same. They're indoctrinated into trying to colonise everyone they come in contact to. Gag.

[@localkate]

@@morphinpink Colonize is literally the perfect word for this lmaooo gross

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #3: What the hell, Melissa? Didn't like the tone? Then you shouldn't have lowered it in the first place.

[@krafka]

Edit: based on OP's edit, this was ALL part of the husand's plan all along. He's still practicing. He KNEW his parents were taking them to church and baptism classes. This sounds like the classic agree to whatever, then assume you'll be able to change your spouse's mind later and get what you want. Baptism: NTA for the plain and simple reason that parents get to decide whether children get baptized or receive religious education. However, what did OP expect to happen when she left the kids with her religious ILs over the weekend. However, now that the damage is done, rather than simply saying no, OP will need to have a more in-depth discussion with her children about why they want to get baptized - perhaps they're just afraid of hellfire and brimstone. OP will now need to conduct lessons on what's wrong with belief in god, the flaws in logic and reasoning, as well as perhaps conduct age appropriate discussions about all the problems that religion has caused through the centuries from the Spanish Inquisition to Catholic/Protestant troubles in Northern Ireland to the current issues in the Middle East. Simply saying "NO" rather than both probing why they want to go to church and be baptized will no longer suffice. Finally, OP will also need to provide a broad education on other religious, including the other Abrahamic religions, Buddhist, Hindu, among others, so that the children can see that religion and faith come in many flavors.

[@miaikonteras4006]

That moment when Mark talks about his own kinda normal childhood accident, and then the story evolves into something right out of a crime show XD. And he just tells it like it's the most normal thing in the world. I love it.

[@racoony_peachboi9262]

Who else is legit in love with Mark cheeky attitude it's the best

[@LunaP1]

Oh yes. Love his cheekiness.😂

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

Ye

[@mistysgamingchannel9918]

👋

[@mistysgamingchannel9918]

me

[@maggpiprime954]

😊💖

[@warpuppy17]

A verbal agreement with a minor who doesn't know any better. Oh how will this play out?

[@CastielMelmoth]

When I was 10 or 11 I "decided" to get baptized because my grandma, that I only got to see once a year manipulated me into it. That, and I was attending a catholic school and I felt kinda left out when all my friends would go eat that white tortilla thing and wine (idk the words in English). Only a couple years later I regretted it and stopped believing in god. Even more years later as a teen, I realized the amount of guilt and manipulation that sorrounded me in that school and I was very angry about the mistreatment, lies and cinical actions that happened there. I still hate that school at 28 and I despise anything related to relligion. I don't want any of it close to me, I don't like going inside churches with the sad paintings and Jesus bleeding on a cross. I'm not a atheist anymore, I'm agnostic and I don't mind that people pick a religion for themselves, but I don't think it's ok for a child who can't understand all of it yet. I wish my parents had question me back then, but they just let me do it and that was it. Btw I also "picked" that school... I did it because I like the playground, I had no idea I would be forced to pray for 10 years until I left it in a suicidal state. That's why children need help to make importante decisions.

[@CatAstridphe]

Who the hell buys their 12 year old a pool and expects them to pay back half? I thought the deal was going to be they do upkeep, and once they have a job, they pay for that upkeep (purchasing chemicals and test kits, etc. Maybe paying half of any repairs and maintenance.) and that the kid was now chucking a tanty over it. Because that would be a reasonable deal.

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

I was raised by devout Catholics. My husband was raised as a Unitarian universalist. Although he leans towards atheism. I stopped being a practicing Catholic when I was about 12 years old due to some personal issues that I'm not gonna get into here, and no I had nothing to do with abuse. When I was pregnant with our twins my husband and I agreed that we would teach our children about a lot of religions, and as they grew, we woukd support them wherever their spiritual path led them. My grandmother was very hurt and sad that my children would not be baptized by the Catholic religion. But I was adamant it was not going to happen. However the voice of reason, my husband, came to me and he said to me that we should baptize them, as it would make my grandmother happy, and it's not gonna hurt them, and they can choose when they get older what religion or if no religion is they want to be. So to make my grandma happy I did end up baptizing my children. .However, they've only been in the Catholic Church maybe 2 or 3 times. We raised them is a Unitarian Universalist church. They are now young adults and older teenager, and two are atheist, and one is pagan/ polytheist.

[@cjandauntieyaya1446]

About the pool story: OP is TA for appeasing her daughter by buying a huge expensive item and holding half the bill over the child's head. Forst off, a pool will increase the property value. When OP and her husband sell the house, will she share the profits with her daughter? OP shouldn't have given into the demand for a pool in the first place with the attitude OP has. Plus, OP is now going to ruin her daughter's future just to be petty of a few thousand dollars that OP and her husband are responsible for. It wasn't as if the daughter damaged property or stole something worth that much and should compensate once she gets a job. This is an adult choice of home improvement that will provide the parents $$ of profit once they sell the property. OP needs to stop this pettiness.

[@damealeta3541]

I would be furious with my parents if they did this with my kid. We are more spiritual than religious & we've raised our daughter to be a good kind human being. Nothing more needs to be believed other than be kind, do good and use common sense. Our kid, now a full grown adult, is better than I could have hoped for. This could be a phase for you kids. I went through a 'Jesus Freak' phase in high school and grew out of it in a couple of years.

[@damien678]

Story 1: Genuinely never trust somebody of a religion that's the predominant one where you live... If you are not of it. At least not enough to help raise your kids. Or be all that close to them. You just cannot risk it, and this is why. ESPECIALLY don't marry someone that still says they're a part of said religion. They either gotta be openly not of it or they are going to actively shove it more into your life than you want.

[@gunbladesniper]

I find the ages of the children in the first and second stories and the different reddit responses very interesting.

[@WatsonAndDaughter]

12 years old is not old enough to make an agreement for thousands of dollars. A 12 year old IS old enough to start exploring their identity. Church and baptisms aren't that big of a deal, and they can always change their minds. This isn't as weird as you think.

[@jboy804]

Man, you got to the heart of it. Religion is so ingrained in so many people's brains that they can't divorce the harm it can do to their moral outlook at such a young age. Besides how would a child be able to weigh the benefits and negatives of religion? All they see is their in-laws are a part of this thing and want to be too, at this stage it has NOTHING to do with the actual religion. The fact the that the kids didn't want to hear about any other religions, isn't a great sign of things to come. Best case scenario, they go to a very liberal church which just teaches the value of community and such. Considering where the father came from, I highly doubt that's the case though.

[@ronbarnes5354]

The Parents and the Husband in the first story crossed clearly defined boundaries and then LYED about it. It’s clear both your husband and his parents don’t give a crap about the original arrangement you and your husband made. The fact your husband knew and hid that from you shows that he is the type of guy that will manipulate situations to get whatever he wants. It would be different if he brought it back up with you and you had a new discussion about it now your kids are a little older. But thats not what he did! As far as I’m concerned he broke trust and makes me wonder what other things he’s lying about.

[@TechnicolourFlamingo]

The last story really hit close to home. I have a scar on my stomach and have no bellybutton. It was because I was born with gastroschisis and had over 11 operations by the time I was 18 months. It was always something I used to be very self cautious about. My mate he would always say to me it is a badass battle wound and I have more guts than he does. It always made me laugh and feel much better about it despite the years of constant bullying. I often use humour to say I trust what I have left of my gut and other jokes. I'd say op is definitely nta, he literally used Melissa's words back on to her. I hope everyone here has a safe and fun holiday season. Much love to you all.

[@opal5138]

There are many different believes on child baptism but personally I am against child baptism as I wasn’t baptised as a child until I was old enough to choose it for myself making it a much more special day than being a few months old and being forced to do something I wouldn’t remember, shine bright waffle gang have a beautiful day (:

[@opal5138]

Forces us to pray before dinner? I think that OP throughout the post is a little bit ignorant. Before dinner Christians are required ( note this this isn’t always followed through ) to pray to thank God for the meal this is known as grace and it’s extremely common even outside of religious settings

[@streamerssaymyname]

@@opal5138 everyone's interpretation of religious requirements are different, you do know that most Christians baptize because of the belief in original sin, meaning if your child died before being baptized their souls would not be accepted into heaven? There are so many denominations and nondenominational Christians that insisting grace is a must for all of them is a bit ignorant, no? On top of that OP is an atheist so of course it is the inlaws forcing religion on OP and her kids.

[@opal5138]

@@streamerssaymyname indeed I know that that I why I said personally sorry I’ll make it clearer in my comment

[@streamerssaymyname]

You know the best part? I bet grandma and grandpa told them they were going to go to hell as long as their mom kept them from getting baptized. That is one of the most common tactics evangelicals "invite" kids to religion.

[@quartzskull8772]

@@opal5138 do you have a choice in not doing it?

[@TheHellsHobbit]

#3 She dishes it out but can not take it, drop the friendship

[@WatsonAndDaughter]

12 is old enough to decide if they want to get baptized. If 12 year olds are old enough to decide what sexuality they identify with, they can decide how they feel about religion. If you don't pressure them, they'll grow up to be whatever they want. Saying this as a trans, gay Christian.

[@CarinaCoffee]

Story 1: I'm so mad at OP. I bet you these fanatics told the children they'd go to hell if they don't follow their religion. The fact that they don't even want to learn about other religions is a big giveaway. OP should have explained to her kids about evolution and the universe from the scientific facts and how the major religions view the world. It's so sad that she let her kids be brainwashed by some of the worst religious fanatics out there - Evangelical Christians. She played right into her in-laws hands by letting them look after the kids on the weekends without checking in on them or planning outings for them they could have had otherwise, like going to a natural history museum or something. But no, she let her children go to events designed specifically to trap people into religion, I bet the kids got to eat many sweets after baptism class and got to play around with their new friends. It's peer pressure. And OP's husband is a piece of shit too. He knew what his parents were doing behind OP's back. This is divorce worthy in my book. How could she ever trust him again? And now her kids are brainwashed by bigots and she has to play nice otherwise her kids will hate her. 🤦

[@alexandermccalla5098]

“I won’t bore you now with that.” Huh? That sounds like the plot to an insane movie. You don’t often hear the phrase “she ended her mom”.

[@KitsunePhotography]

She needs to get her kids away from that cult. That’s horrific

[@simana9891]

Me looking at the scar on my finger from my encounter with a squirrel… ah yes, all scars have stories.

[@antipodias6672]

1. I'm a pagan who got baptized because my grandma wouldn't shut up about it. So yeah I woulda made them wait and learn about other religions first. 2. I have a scar on my lip that I can't hide with make-up. I've never gotten a comment about it so ig some people are immune to looking more intimidating with a facial scar. That friend needed to shut up before she started.

[@alexisl3xmcmullin171]

The fact they are of that specific religion is concerning to me and I seriously think op needs to get her kids therapy

[@samiulhuda4001]

lol

[@LilChuunosuke]

*Story 1:* I went to a private catholic school and was 1 of 2 atheists in my grade. They fostered and nurtured the unhealthy relationship we had with each other to ensure we couldn't bond over our lack of faith. They tried to manipulate us into coming to the school's church on Sundays by saying we could spend more time with our friends. They told us that without accepting God into our lives, we would never experience true happiness and would end up in hell no matter how much we tried to be good people. Thankfully its hard to brainwash autistic kids because I couldn't bring myself to believe he existed even when I actively tried to in order to make my teachers happy. And this wasnt even an evangelical school. At the bare minimum, theyre pressuring the kids into feeling like they HAVE TO stay in Sunday school AND are violating religious practices, as you are never supposed to baptize a child without parental consent. Even if the children and grandchildren both want it. Maybe those kids will grow up to be Catholic, but theyre too young to see past the brainwashing at this age. OP is doing right by them.

[@locusxe1411]

I have the opposite experience tbh. I went to a private catholic school from 5-8th grade and the only thing we were forced to go to was during school mass. There were plenty of atheists in my school who were even up and front about it. We were never forced to go to weekend church or to even accept God. That sucks you went through that

[@binkao2938]

*Was doing right. She caved in the end :( I say this as someone that considers themselves a Christian too. It’s my impression most churches in America seem really toxic!

[@dream6562]

@@locusxe1411 my experience was more mild, agnostic btw, while they didn't force us into anything, our lessons did consist of learning about the stories and basically just let us discuss the stories with them

[@truthseeker9249]

I'm Autistic too and come from a Christian family. I too was too stubborn to be brainwashed but it still messed me up. Christians aren't as tough on you as Catholics but they are tough. They push all the agendas on you very hard.

[@LilChuunosuke]

@@locusxe1411 yeah i dont want people thinking that all churches and religious people are like that (or that I believe that) but sadly it is a genuine concern when exposing your child to religion. You really gotta research the religious body to look for toxicity and corruption. Thankfully the only things they really FORCED ME into were the during school masses like you mentioned and a couple other things like confession (some teachers forced me to confess, others didn't) and I was required to at least come to the church during my class's First Communion to hand out flyers. I genuinely think part of the reason I was never able to be persuaded into religion was because I saw so much hate and prejudice in it. Hell, I remember one of my teachers who was supposedly a "devoted Christian" going on a tangent in class about how you should never give money to a homeless person because theyre most likely richer than you & faking their suffering. Because one time she tried to offer the poor an open box of leftover pizza from her trunk and they said no. That school was so gross...

[@mariajw4803]

Story 2 reminded me when a seller tried to sell a subscripton of a journal to one of my patients with dementia. Me and a coworker heard my patient talking on the phone excitingly, saying things like "yes, yes, and I want to have a big party too, with lot of cakes and different kind of cookies bla bla bla". Then she hung up. So the salesperson called back but then my coworker answered and this salesperson said that our patient had signed up for a subscription but forgot to tell her about her adress and security numbers and stuff. My coworker told them of. She's otherwise one of the sweetest, calm people I know but this was a rare moment of her getting angry.

[@whiskeyontherocks]

Story 1, I'm a grown up in the same situation as OP's children, apart from me and my sisters being baptised by our parents. Our household was non religious but my parternal grand parents were very religious. When we visited it was with the knowledge that my grandparents would bring us with them to church and we would pray before we ate and in the evenings. I loved it, it was a nice ritual before we were tucked in, I liked the atmosphere at church and liked singing the beautiful hymns. All in all it was a different and positive experience I chared only with my paternal grandparents which still means a lot to me.

[@partyshoes2917]

She should have let them attend the church but not be baptized yet. I feel she compromised on the one thing she shouldn't

[@SoicAngellis]

Story 1 Update: Eugh, OP was too late and too damn naive. Sounds like the in laws got what they wanted and brainwashed her kids

[@Olivia-ek9ib]

Op in story 1 is wrong. Think of it from the kids’ perspectives: mom is always telling them “I’ll support you in what you believe” only to turn on them and pull the “you’re just brainwashed” card the second they tell her what they believe. All that does is reinforce the belief that “mom only supports me if I have the same beliefs as her”, because as much as op thinks slapping on a “we’ll talk about it when you’re older” will make it better, it _will not_ and again reinforce the fact that she doesn’t view them as competent people despite, as another commenter pointed out, 12 being more than old enough to start determining your identity. That includes religion. Most parents are willing to raise their kids “with their own beliefs on religion” because they expect their kids to make the same decision they did, and when the kids have a different belief, they are woefully unequipped to deal with it. It is a positive sign that the mother actually started embracing her kids’ decisions at the end of the story.

[@TessuDraws]

"I won't bore you with it" I'M SORRY??? Mark, that's some of the most unhinged stuff I've heard, what do you mean BORE???

[@novabrilliant4510]

I have a substantial scar (27 stitches) and was very self conscious about it for years. I can't fathom why someone would be so insensitive when they are in the same position! Lots of love to Mark, Poppy, and the waffle gang!

[@Tyanna01]

Story 3: Melissa isn't a friend. One of two things is happening here, either Melissa is keeping OP around to make herself feel better. She can see how much better her life is hiding her scar than his is by keeping it out in the open. But what she said to the group was her truth, she honestly thinks the scar makes him (and my extension her) creepy and intimidating. Or, Melissa has become possessive of OP b/c he has the same scar as her. She can talk to him honestly about it, be open about it in a way she hasn't been able to before. So when this other girl said positive things about the scar, she tried to make him seem less appealing so that she wouldn't lose OP's emotional support to another person. Only they can talk about their scars together sort of thing. Either way, it's not healthy and Melissa isn't a friend to OP. OP should distance himself from her.

[@xforeverknightx]

Story 1. I went through something similar with my daughter (4 at the time). I allowed her to go to church with the MIL and I thought it was a good idea. I'm not religious but believe everyone makes their own mind up so encourage my children to learn about different religions, that was until my daughter start coming back saying my wife and myself where bad for not believing in Jesus. The following week the children where doing a little play so I went along to see what they where doing. I was left shocked when I saw a group of kids between 4-6 being what I can only call brainwashed, the pastor was telling them they must go to school and tell their friends that they must believe in Jesus and that when they are taught science they need to see evolution as wrong. Add to that the hands being placed on them by the adults and the children seeing this as a game made me decided that my daughter would no longer attend. It was honestly an eye opener to how children are indoctrinated into a religion.

[@jlyo1991]

I am undergoing the rite of Christian initiation for adults (RCIA). I’m in my 30s and was an atheist for a decade+. Let my life trajectory be a cautionary tale. You cannot force a person to be a Christian. Plus they’re not Catholics and don’t believe in limbo. No point to baptism unless they’re old enough to understand and a child simply isn’t.

[@hilaryc3203]

Whatever happened in your life has nothing to do with giving others cautionary tales. You might have made bad decisions (if that is what you meant), but it had nothing to do with a lack of religion. Religion just removes your accountability and you hand over your independence to manipulators.

[@truthseeker9249]

@@hilaryc3203 SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

[@hilaryc3203]

@@truthseeker9249 lol I'm all for returning the planet to animism, for the sake of the planet if nothing else. No gods, just a good attitude. :)

[@truthseeker9249]

@@hilaryc3203 Agreed. You don't have to worship a higher power to be a good person.

[@hilaryc3203]

@@truthseeker9249 Tell that to the christians. Because I don't believe in gods, christians will say people like me are evil, sinful, will burn in hell, bad influences...yadda yadda, yet they turn around and spew their bigotry and hate towards the everyone who doesn't folllow their bi-bull. :) meanwhile, I get to sleep in on Sunday mornings

[@swiftninja91]

Story 1 - I was baptised Catholic and lost my faith when I was a teenager. While I have my reasons, I would never force my beliefs on anyone else. I'd say ESH - OP for not giving her kids the tools to decide for themselves (also dumping her kids at her ILs) the ILs being sketchy behind her back

[@CorgiNub]

I know a lot of people are calling OP in story 1 the asshole, but I can also see from her perspective an endgame where her husband and in-laws alienate her kids from her because she won't convert, and they're all 'saved'. It's not going to stop with them going to church and getting baptized.

[@owl7072]

That's what I was thinking about. They took the kids to church and baptism classes without telling Op. And it's _one_ weekend a month, that's not "rearranging their whole routine" especially if they know ahead of time. Church is fine as long as _both parents know and are okay with it_ and if they're not saying anything to Op, the person they've been trying to get to convert since they met, about taking her kids to church then there's no way in hell that's gonna be the only thing and they're not going to do something else to make those kids turn against her and alienate her. I get the feeling this scenario is exactly what Op was trying to avoid.

[@ADWebTV]

@@owl7072 They did tell one parent. The husband is AH for not telling his wife. Their not on the same page and I find it troubling he kept this from her considering her strong feelings. I find OPs behavior though weird like did she want to get married or just did because she thought the in-laws would calm down. It's hard to have a relationship when couples beliefs or non-beliefs are not the same. Also it benefits everyone to have a general understanding of what others beliefs, what cults are and so forth. OP seems scared of religion in a way. Just because her kids believe today doesn't mean they will in 3 or 10 yrs.

[@AppleStrawberryLove]

I get that... but at the same time, it is a situation that I look at and go "this was the obvious end. Religious differences are dealbreakers in the dating phase for a reason." I don't like Christianity (I have enough issues from my old church that I have panic attacks going into any church now), but at the same time, she wasn't neutral like she claimed either. She clearly made the husband feel pressured to go along with the more atheist approach and then didn't actually do anything to educate her kids earlier. She just... wanted to pretend religion isn't a thing for anyone. I feel a bit bad for her but... frankly, she helped create the situation she's in now. It wouldn't have been that hard to explain the grandparents' beliefs to the kids and go "but that's not all that's out there nor are their beliefs correct, no matter what they say." Plus the lack of knowledge about even the denomination? Girl, even if you didn't believe, knowing that alone could have let you prep for this moment when the kids asked. My mom's side is Mormon, and my mom has issues with her parents' religion. When she found out they started with me and my brother, she shut it down while also explaining to us that as much as we loved our grandparents, this choice was ours and our love for them shouldn't be a factor. We could learn if we wanted but it wasn't required. And my parents weren't super religious then (that happened later). I have never gone to a Mormon service again because I just wasn't interested. (And it was offered.) Similar reasons for my dad's side which is Catholic. This whole situation was avoidable. I was able to grasp that stuff at like age 5. Her older kids could have too.

[@katecooper3410]

Story 1: ETA. I'm a pastor's grandkid and got dragged to church until I was 17. That contributed to my PTSD, as well as the emotional abuse I suffered while there. OP, PLEASE encounter more people like me, and find an age appropriate way to explain what religion can do to people. That being said, you knew they were religious, you didn't educate them on known religions, and the inlaws suck for going behind your back

[@ruthsaunders9507]

Church is a given on the weekend if you're leaving your kids with church going people. They aren't going to change their schedule every weekend just to babysit.

[@sherrygibbs7547]

Just as Mark did, scars are our own personal stories, they tell about our life and we can share those stories with other people. We should not have to feel bad or ashamed about our scars. And, people should not be shaming, us for our beautiful scars. Shame on anyone who cannot accept us, for having scars.

[@kingsevil5255]

I kneeeeew the husband was in on it. I fucking knew it.

[@BbiBbii]

Ummm Mark?! How are you gonna casually drop that insane sounding story about your old friend 💀 Honestly that sounds like a movie plot

[@starbird3939]

Story 1 - ESH Why did OP marry this guy and think her husband was no longer practicing? Also she expects full time PASTORS to not teach the kids religion… and also put child care on them? Ummmm… raise your own children. The husband is a liar who tried the “both sides”

[@karimuffin]

Story 1: NTA. I had exposure to multiple religions (my father was Jewish my mother was Christian) and ultimately decided not to be much of anything. I don't vibe well with religious practices, and I'm grateful my parents never forced anything on me. I find the grandparents incredibly gross for baptizing and indoctrinating the kids. OP and her husband should be the one exposing kids to various ideas and practices. There's a whole big world out there and OP needs a little bit of education herself.

[@Hrb3968]

Girl, they probably told the kids they will go to hell and suffer if they don’t belive.

[@jjmitch1411]

Exactly! Especially since they’re not even teens yet and are taking baptism classes. They’re at such a malleable are and are being manipulated by their father and grandparents

[@GBunnyG]

The story of your head injury REALLY TOOK A TURN. 😳 I want to hear that friend's full story now.

[@D-D-Gaming]

As someone who grew up in a christian house hold and went to church every sunday. Honestly. Kids are not 6 year olds going along with what grandparents are saying. One is 12 years old and the other 10. I've met a lot of intelligent 12 year olds. I remember my niece when she was 12 and she could easily make decisions for herself when given the opportunity to choose something. OP is definitely trying to keep her kids from experiencing any kind of religion for not even telling them about it. Like... yeah. I'm 34 years old now, do I go to church? Not really. I have Christian values but I'm not an active member of the Christian community. Would I have been open to try another religion as a younger kid? Probably not. When they get in their teens, they will make the decision for themselves if they wish to stay with the Christian values and beliefs. Its not the end all be all just because they decide to remain Christian. Just make sure they learn GOOD values. That's all! They can believe in whatever God they'd like as long as they become good people (or no God if they end up choosing that).

[@AndyyWithAY]

This is the 3rd time I've heard story 2 today and the whole thing is asinine to me. 1. If all her friends have pools, why can't she just use their pools? This isn't a toy from the dollar store, this is a multi-thousand pool. 2. Who makes a legal contract for several thousand dollars with a child? 3. Prom dresses cost at maximum a few hundred dollars that's literally nothing compared to $15k or more that the pool would cost. That's going to take several years for her to repay, what is a few hundred dollars? OP is just a weirdo and it seems like she lacks critical thinking skills.

[@ohreally1997]

The expectation is so illogical, I think it goes beyond OP's ability to apply reason or critical thinking. I think OP's motives are nefarious.

[@ronniec427]

Story 1: I agree with the comment about did OP really think that her children wouldn't be going to church if she left her children with her in-laws on a Sunday. It is quite common with children to go to their grandparents' church when they stay with them on a Sunday even when the parents are not raising the children to be religious. OP is guilty of willful ignorance.

[@hilaryc3203]

Quite common? Only if you live in the bible belt, and are stupid - which OP was. There's not a chance in hell I would leave a child alone with a bible thumper.

[@SkyEcho751]

Story 2: Wut... I feel like this is financial abuse. OP took a dependent and told her "Sure I'll get you a luxury. But you'll need to pay me back when you are able to.". Honestly, a 12 year old really doesn't understand money(with the rare exception) so I say it's a YTA for entering a contract with a 12 year old and immediately cashing due. Story 3: NTA, and either Melissa is gay/lesbian or has a crush on OP. But regardless of either I say OP is not in the wrong, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And all OP did was ask if her words should be applied to her. Literally just a "no u"/Reverse Uno card moment.

[@starbird3939]

Story 3 - NTA What a backstabber.

[@topazblu6209]

1) There is zero open communication in this family. At least, zero open communication in the family with OP. Chances are the husband made the housing arrangements so that they could be near his parents out of convenience. I'm also kind of wondering where they work and if they work at the same place. Needless to say, OP seems to be disconnected from the world around them. 2) I was kind of expecting chores or taking on responsibilities to help with upkeep, not actual cash. 3) Scars and bumps tell stories. Got three line scars, can barely see now, on my upper lip leading upward. Nothing awesome behind them but it does involve an adorable escape artist puppy of large dog breed (can't spell the name). Not sure what the friend's end game was here. Kind of reminds me of that story where the sister played a game with her brother and his friends and got upset when he called her out on something in front of her bf.

[@ArthurRex131]

Just from reading the title of the video, I have this to say. The inlaws do not have the right to insist on a belief system for a child that is not theirs. I'm a born and raised Catholic, so baptism would be something I'd expect of my children, but that would be my and my wife's decision, not my mother in law's.

[@biggerxbetter]

Story 1: YTA. I’m sorry you can’t possibly be THAT dense. You thought “typical extreme evangelical pastors” were skipping church EVERY Sunday? Then “I didn’t feel the need to talk to them about it”??? But you KNEW how they were. At the very least it was your responsibility to have that discussion if you didn’t want that for your kids.

[@mihalybalint8969]

"wont bore you now with it" Bruuuh with that premise I dont think boring us was an option

[@icantchange.youtubesaysine7338]

Hmmm. You made a deal with a kid? And… you get a built in one instead of the ones from the store that’s a couple of quid? She was a kid, pretty sure kids would say yes to anything at the time. Could have gotten a non built in pool for a couple of quid but YOU decided to get a built in pool? Either way it’s dumb. You get a pool, make cleaning it the kids job. Idk, many might disagree with me. And I might be wrong. But I feel like all of us agreed to things when we were kids, not thinking twice because it got us what we want.

[@vanzy01]

💯👍👏

[@TonySamedi]

Story 1: I wonder if any of those folks defending the grandparents would be doing it if it was any other religion. Like if it was Pagan or Satanist or even Muslim or Hindu grandparents where the couple had agreed to not indoctrinate the kids and the grandparents decided to do it behind their back, I don't think it'd provoke so many folks calling op the ah

[@UbermanPrime]

My parents let me choose whether or not I would be baptized when I was around 8, which is sort of common for Baptists. OP's kids should be allowed to choose for themselves when they have a proper idea of the gravity of that decision.

[@stirlingarcher7972]

Their grandparents have been indoctrinating them for years, OP should look into those places that un-brainwash people with Stockholm syndrome

[@amberleeannalee1999]

Would someone please from out of America adopt me? I’m so done today. Lots of cptsd trauma response anxiety crying agitation and over stimution. Working alone at a busy gas station is hard enough. Thank goodness for mark

[@BDogGrizzly]

Story 3: I have two large scars on my face. One about 3 inches long straight under my left eye that makes me look like a pirate the other is around the top of my right eyebrow. I am proud of them both. They make me who I am today.

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #1: Everyone Sucks Here except the poor kids. OP was happy to get free babysitting from the inlaws until she found out they were secretly indoctrinating her kids into their little cult, against her express wishes. The atheist pearl-clutching was also a bit much. Hubby is TA because he undermined his wife with his own parents and sneakily allowed something he knew she would hate, behind her back. It also sounds as though he participated in his parents' attempts to strong-arm her into converting. My dude, if you didn't want to be married to an atheist, you shouldn't have hooked up with one in the first place. But the grandparents are, by a very long and relativistic country mile, TA. For a start, the parents get the final say on what religious instruction their kids get and if one parent objects, that is where the buck stops. Period. Tough toenails, Grands. Second, the inlaws are quite clearly running a C.U.L.T. And a pretty nasty one, too. Sounds like Hubby is pretty thoroughly indoctrinated, still, but pulled some passive-aggressive stealth mode to "just get by" and make both sides happy. That the poor kids think it's all sunshine and roses is, of course, a huge red flag. Of course they love it now, but wait until all the homophobia and racism show up, and all the self-hate about one's body, especially for girls. OP needs to take those kids and disappear. She won't, of course, because she's been pretty laissez faire about the entire situation from the get-go, and I don't see that changing, but it's what she should do. Those people sound crazy and are likely much more dangerous than she realizes.

[@lindaandersen5723]

The date on the last comment (story 3) sounds like an absolute keeper.

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

Story 2: How about... "Sorry honey, we cannot everything we want in life". Heck I would have loved a pool - now I am older, I am kinda glad in not having one. Sure, it would have benefitted in swimming and learning stuff, but the maintenance and stuff? Nope!

[@lsmmoore1]

Yes. THAT would be teaching correct morals. Not this nonsense.

[@Dragonemperess]

I'm gonna guess that the Inlaws told the kids that they would burn in Hell if they weren't baptized.

[@samurailevi49]

Story 3: NTA. I have a scar that goes right through my eyebrow and thus, my eyebrow is uneven and part of the hair is nonexistent. This has never bothered me. One time, I was asked by someone cutting my hair if I wanted it waxed because it was uneven. I told her I was completely aware of that and it didn’t bother me. Imagine if I was super self conscious, that would have destroyed my self esteem.

[@PatrickRsGhost]

Concerning the swimming pool story: The cost of the pool itself, including installation, would be the least of your worries. It's the maintenance that really bites you in the ass. Chlorine, algaecide, bromine, and many other things are needed to keep the water safe and clear. Also you have to sweep, scrub, and vacuum the pool daily, as well as empty out all of the skimmer baskets, especially if you have a lot of trees or other plants that drop leaves, buds, and other things daily. If I had a kid that wanted a pool, I'd lay this all out for them, and tell them they'd need to be responsible for taking care of it. I'd help them with some of the chemicals, but they'd be responsible for cleaning it daily. I'd also help them close it down for the off-season, but otherwise, they'd be responsible. Also they'd have to pay for the chemicals and all other materials (brushes, nets, etc.).

[@oldgreggsmadmemes4431]

Teach the kids about other religions don't let the IL win

[@themayhemofmadness7038]

12-yr-old: Mommy! I wanna pool! Mom: Okay, but only if you pay half when you’re older! 4 years later… Mom: Time to pay for your half of the pool that cost thousands of pounds! Daughter (who doesn’t even have enough for a couple of hundred pounds prom dress): Um, yeah, no. Seriously. WTF?!? Where did OP think her daughter was going to get the money? And why did she think that a 12-yr-old would understand how much a pool would cost? She probably thought it was only a couple of hundred pounds at most. But sure, let’s bleed a teenager dry because OP couldn’t say no or just get a cheap above ground pool. Guess it’s time for OP to call in the debt collectors…. 🙄

[@ohreally1997]

Four years later...

[@themayhemofmadness7038]

@@ohreally1997 Damn! You’re right! That’s somehow even worse!!!!! I have fixed my comment.