My Thoughts On The OP-1 Field Controversy...

[@basementriffs]

One of the most honest gear reviews I have ever watched. 100% agree.

[@BillVincent]

Nailed it. I have the original OP-1, which I paid $699 for, new in 2016. I bought it as a souvenir from Moogfest 2016, which immediately gave it sentimental value, but more than that, I saw it as a fun and unique way to create and store ideas. Not fully fleshed out tunes, although I've done that as well, but only under the idea of "made on the OP-1". But the majority of the time I use it for a fun way to unwind, and maybe a cool idea or two will pop up along the way. I take it on trips. I use it like salt or pepper to season my DAW tracks with a loop of a sample or a tuned down instrument or something. For the price point, it was, and still is, perfect. The issue with the new OP-1, for me, is that it drifted from what it started as, which was a quirky fun half-toy/half creativity tool into an overpriced version of itself that ignored features people asked for since the origin of the OG OP-1, and added features that really don't add that much value overall. At a 2K price point I can do a lot more with other hardware and I don't have to be worried constantly about breaking a $2000 piece of gear every time I go out with it. TE hasn't exactly been known for the durability of the OP-1. There have been major problems with their screens over the years, well documented online. I'm even nervous to take my OG out, even tho I do. I baby it, always. And that one cost less than 1K. With their limited US repair options and themselves being across the globe, it's a very real fear to worry about dropping, breaking, or otherwise handling a new one at that price.

[@warpigs330]

So I work in the electronics industry at a circuit board assembly house and am hoping to eventually start a synth company. I got into electronics through synths, and am fairly knowledgeable about the realities of the costs of manufacturing. I would not buy an OP-1, as I feel like it is overpriced for it's musical functions. It is fairly priced when considering the build quality and the amount of design hours that went into the OP-1 in the first place. But in my opinion the wholly custom nature of everything on it makes it look fantastic, but also makes it very very expensive. I much prefer the approach Elektron take, using commonly available mechanical keyboard switches and fairly common knobs, and a bent metal body rather than a custom CNC aluminum one for the OP-1. The OP-1 is definitely a good instrument, I used a friend's for a short while, but I just think they put more effort into the visual design than was necessary to make a good and useful instrument, and that led to it being more expensive than it otherwise could have been. On the other hand the visual design of it is what made it famous in the first place, so they probably chose the right route in regards to business.

[@opart]

TE is charging for UX/UI foremost, thats what made OP-1 so accessible to non-pros, which is a good thing. They are also messing around with a lot of things, and probably offsetting the overall R&D cost of all their devices. Just look at OP-Z, while the build quality is lacking, the amount of features is mind boggling. Unfortunately the new prices definitely put it out of range for a lot of people, it is what it is.

[@WalterGalindo]

Totally agree, price point is also a major factor when developing a new product, if you start with a design and feature set and figure out your pricing bracket later, most likely you will fail as a business even if the product is great, the OP-1 is not the greatest it could be, there are so many compromises made to fit the form factor and aesthetics that it can't also be called "a no compromise instrument" so that it could justify its price. Good luck in your endeavor.

[@Purrrelll]

Try writing a software as effective and efficient as the OP-1. It is a premium product, if people can’t afford it, look else where, there is some thing for every budget these days. You, working for a circuit company does not proove anything. It is like comparing Audi to a Hyundai. I can never afford an OP but if I do, I would by it in a heart beat, that is why people buy second hand non working OPs for 600-700 dollars and fix them. Elektron machines are tough, but the learning curve plus you need more than one machine to produce a track is a hustle, they are heavy, and genre specific. And of course, these are my points, and I respect everybody’s opinion. Cheers.

[@gladtobeangry]

" is fairly priced when considering the build quality and the amount of design hours that went into the OP-1" Sorry, but I can't agree with that argument. Who cares how long they spent to make it? It is what it is: pretty limited and needlessly cumbersome. If I hire a painting and decorating company to paint my house, and they spend 500 hours painting a tiny section of my house, and then they come around with a bill for 500 hours, are they giving me a fair price, or are they just wasting my valuable time and money? Hours of design only become a factor when the results are satisfactory. I'm sure someone had a lot of fun for weeks and weeks and weeks, meticulously redrawing the already existing simple line animations of a cow and 2 monkeys. Great for them. Not worth 2000 euros.

[@smaudd_labs]

@@Purrrelll I do not agree with this. An Audi has every functionality as a Hyundai has (comparing sedans to sedans, SUVs to SUVs, apples to apples). The OP-1 is lacking functionalities the PO33 has. Both samplers, groove boxes. The OP-1 is weird AF to operate and prone to throw your time into the garbage. What is the purpose of limiting memory to 256Mbs like if we were on the 2005? Let me throw an SD card in there and they can even save the money they spend on that memory and soldering the thing into the circuit. This guys want to reinvent the wheel and they are failing hard and using the whole "premium vibe" to shield their mistakes. It's not about if most of people can afford it or not, this is a tool, not an Off-white t-shirt. If you want to enjoy animations and have an expensive but gorgeous aluminium box on you shelf, ok, but I really don't see the point on wasting time coding engines, sequencers, putting memory. Just sell a nice box with a nice screen with great animations and weird functionality. The OP-1 as a prototype is great, as a synth brand product, is shit and that's why they need to go for that "premium" path instead offering a nice looking competitive tool.

[@NicleT]

They use the chips shortage excuse to inflate their price exactly like the gas industry use Russia’s war to do the same at the pump. Funny that you give the game comparison because I never was interested by TE for that very reason: they use the game metaphor on most of their product designs but with a out of the roof price tag. For me, they always looked like imposters in the professional musical world, it never been as true as now.

[@maleficenthardware]

"TE have intentionally begun to reposition themselves as a luxury priced gadget company producing status toys for those who are willing to pay" Exactly that - and now they have to live with losing the sympathy and the support of all the people who dislike luxury priced status toy gadget companies......

[@arcticfoxstudios2018]

Brutal...but right on the money. This is what happens when you drink your own Kool aid too much.

[@jalava78]

It still costs less than Moog Matriarch 🤔

[@Koopakid917543]

I love my OP-1, but all the improvements to the Field were basically "quality of life" improvements. More tape tracks, USB C, Bluetooth, Stereo. They modernized it but they didn't REALLY make it better, and for $2000 when there are so many better options out there...

[@EaselCat]

And the M8 is made by one guy.

[@Sequencer_JY]

This is perhaps the first thought out commentary on the OP1-Field I have seen on KZbin. Nicely done.

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks!

[@azzaipdivad]

Professional musicians and hobbyists alike may buy the tools they can afford to make the music they want to make, the way they want to make it. Simple as. Any musical tool may be used strictly for playing and fun, as well as any toy could be used as a musical tool. To call the op-1 a toy is to make assumptions as to how it would be used in the hands of any given user, which is absurd. The perceived seriousness or whimsicality of the instrument, or how it may function as a status symbol because of its price, have nothing to do with the way it could/will be used.

[@steveedwards4495]

Wow! Absolutely nailed it 👍

[@WalterGalindo]

TE is getting Hammered... Good, its well deserved.

[@mimikova390]

I'm not angry at Teenage Engineering. The OP1 is just a toy that I don't need.

[@JamesWilliam70]

They always reminded me of an 80s retro Casio VL. The small size and lego block build alone put this right in the toy zone. Looks fun for around £300. I wouldn't pay anything more than that for a retro over designed UI on a circuit board with a few chips.

[@DochertyStephen]

I think the problem here is the original OP1 was embraced by a lot of people, and they waited a very long time for what was hopefully going to be a worthy successor, but then the Field dropped, and expectations were really let down, on many different fronts.

[@GustavSandstedt]

I think there’s also an anger against being excluded due to economic resources.

[@fukyutube2279]

Be serious. It's overpriced crap

[@joshualane1716]

Yes, you a describing the effects of something being too expensive to be a justifiable purchase

[@christurbiville]

I agree. I would love to buy a Patek but I’m not going to get angry or whine on YT about a watch being overpriced for what it is, or claim that somehow a watch manufacturer should be “fair” and allow folks access instead of charging over $100,000 for a watch. Also It’s not like there are not affordable (a relative term) music tools that can be used to create out there. It’s more likely that the people complaining about the price simply want what the can’t have and wont look cool on YT with their op-01 field to show off. Making everything affordable makes everything worthless.

[@SURCOlive]

Whine on KZbin?

[@christurbiville]

@@SURCOlive I've seen videos of people complaining about the price and how it's unfair that the op-1 field is not affordable. I mean no offense at all. I found your assessment at the end very true. TE is a luxury brand making cool gadgets and they are free to do just that.

[@arzezra]

I'll say one thing as a person who is just learning about sound design and music production. Ive learned sooo fast on the op1 than any other piece of equipment. it's also fun so I want to keep learning and with not a whole lot of effort I can make something music that sounds pretty good. I get the whole debate but learning something new that gives you joy is kinda priceless?

[@guysmiley7289]

It is a money grab pure and simple. The original version was released for $799. This new version is $1999. Is there a $1200 difference in value or are they, like every other company right now, price gouging their customers?

[@hugefood]

This is an incisive and detailed breakdown. I'd also like to mention when I brought up Synthstrom on their initial IG post about the OP-Field, they blocked all my accounts for what was some pretty mild criticism compared to what else I saw in the comments.

[@vinnieRice]

Wise words! Never had any interest in TE and never understood the appeal/price ratio but if they can capture a market then fair play to them. Beautifully designed, however they are not, and never have been, professional tools.

[@SURCOlive]

Right there with ya!

[@SURCOlive]

@Robert Jameson People have made music banging sticks together. It doesn’t make the sticks worth $2000. Thanks for watching!

[@SURCOlive]

Just saying that equipment doesn’t have to be professional to make music, but it does if it represents itself as such and costs $2k. Being able to make music with something does not make it professional quality and worth top dollar automatically.

[@SURCOlive]

@Robert Jameson will do! Thanks for watching

[@killzekat]

@Robert Jameson Nobody criticised TE customers choices. But i have to agree with Surco on this: it is indeed true that it’s originality or the way it sounds is not a valid argument for it’s pricing. The DirtyWave M8, Polyend Tracker and now Play, Akai MPC One/live, Roland Sp404Mk2, The Syntakt/Digitakt, Déluge, etc. ALL of them sound very different, have their own identity, sound great and unless they come from the same product family, each one of them are very different when it comes to design, specific features and workflow. So neither originality nor sound should justify TE´s pricing. However, compared to all the aforementioned products, the OP-1 field is really lacking feature wise. Especially when it comes to pro features. So yeah, you CAN do pro music with your TE but as you could with a flute or a guitar, but the usage of an electronic instrument is also about how it can integrate a workflow or articulate in a big gear setup,etc. It’s also about how it compares to other similar products. This is where the OP 1 field is getting pretty roughed up… Not acknowledging that is kind of asinine. If ALL the 300 to 1300 dollars gear do as good or better than a 2000$ gear it is normal to see some eyebrows raised. Whatever the angle you take it from.

[@ZigbertD]

I always thought Teenage Engineering was trying to sell a youthful “anti-pro” image, with their deliberately arcane workflow, clever but inscrutable graphics, their disdain for numeric information or standard technical nomenclature, and even with the name of the company. They seem to be marketing to precocious hipster-nerd kids. That is in no way intended as a pejorative, just a description of a mindset. Like, “This ain’t grandpa’s groovebox!” It seems like it appeals to this notion that you’ll be more creative if you don’t really know what the hell is going on. And that can be true to an extent, but ultimately that approach is self-limiting and its naïveté will become apparent in time. That is IF you are trying to grow as a musician. And I know not every OP-1 user takes that approach and some may view it just as a tool like any other. I also just sense an ever-so-slight vibe of elitism, like you have to be initiated and “in the know” to use one. Just like those damn Snapchat icons that us old people don’t understand! As to the price, I think Gaz of Sonicstate had a reaction when he hears the number that says all that needs to be said at about the 40 minute mark of this video. A very studious non-reaction, a beat of silence, and then “So…quite a bit more” followed by subtly pushing the unit an inch or two away from himself. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioaypa1toZh8b7s

[@MathHammer]

I also am entirely neutral. TE does play in the cheap gadget market with their pocket operators, though I suppose “cheap” is a relative term. At one level they are a “design” company in the sense of industrial design and artistic design.

[@michaels5166]

Let's dig in. If you hate or have anger at a piece of gear, you need to be locked away and have a bag of meds everyday. The choices are to get it,not get it,or make your own..PERIOD..People need to get over themselves, have some sex, get a hug, get some real friends, and live a normal life. When I saw the word 'conspiracy' about a piece of gear,I was laughing my ass off.NONE of us NEED new gear to make music. There's been the Synclavier,old vintage gear,Moog One,etc,etc,just like we have ILC camera bodies at over $5000+, so it's not that serious. People need to stop crying ,whining, complaining, and I guarantee the ones crying are NOT the same people making great,consistent music.

[@MidlifeSynthesist]

Really appreciate your very well thought out, grounded approach, and especially valuable insight as a professional musician. Great video my friend✌🏻

[@stevefearon9337]

Nothing to add! Excellent

[@SURCOlive]

Glad you liked it!

[@Blogspierre]

The word “professional” has a place in business, and even the business of art. But it has no place in an artist’s vocabulary. For the purpose of adding a needed component to one’s studio, the OP-1 is superfluous. But when you want to do it all from a seat @ the cafe, or the park, the OP-1 is the obvious choice. As far as it being a professional tool, well.. if you regularly sell music, then it’s fair to say you’re a pro. So what you use to get you there is really a matter of taste. But I will gladly take on any and all comers to a sample flip battle, using only the Field. Hell, using the OG OP-1. It’s as simple as this; for the style of music that I’m most driven to produce, I’ve mastered the OP-1. My hands are a blur on it.

[@sendalunar2974]

I'm just waiting for OG OP-1 price to go down. Meanwhile I'll wait for my M8.

[@subiesojourner777]

After watching a slew of videos looking at both, and even though I can afford the OP-1 Field, I went with the M8. I also snagged a Polyend Tracker at a very good price to begin learning tracking until my M8 is delivered. I'm in the September delivery batch.

[@iShredStreets]

@@subiesojourner777 Hey, how is it going? Are you still using those devices?

[@subiesojourner777]

@@iShredStreets Yes on the M8, but I'm about to put the Polyend Tracker on eBay. I prefer the small size of the M8 when I'm out and about the Polyend is too big for my liking.

[@iShredStreets]

@@subiesojourner777 Oh, that's nice. Where you a beginner with Trackers? Producing anything to your liking? There was a pre-order for the M8 V2 about 2 days ago. Alas, I missed it.

[@subiesojourner777]

@@iShredStreets Yes, new to them.. I'm pretty much old school and still have my original Yamaha QX-3 sequencer. I use the M8 just to putz around a bit.

[@e-conrecords4665]

I certainly don’t have hostility toward the gear. In this case it’s Teenage Engineering that has drawn my ire. You honestly have to wonder if they are taking the piss with the TX6. Not just the outlandish price tag but the fact that you need proprietary 3.5 cables that TE also just happen to make that have a slim enough profile to plug all 6 channels in at once. As many people have already stated… this has a very Apple feel to it… engineering problems that they also just happen to sell the solution to. As a consumer that is happy to pay for premium gear, I feel that TE have gone a bit beyond the pale with the TX6 & to a lesser degree, the OP-1 Field. I’m not sure TE’s the type of company whose ethics I would reward with my hard earned cash in the future. Just my 2c…

[@Potato_Donkey]

thanks for summing up the extensive inner turmoil that i've been going through after clicking on "buy" last week when the op-1 field was announced. i cancelled my order just before watching your video, but i'm glad to have been able to see you thorough and spot on summary of the situation. many videos lately have been super negative, and i don't disagree with some of their points . but your take was balanced and thoughtful. i agree that if TE wants to be a luxury gadget brand, then good for them. business is business and there's money to be made. but . i'm a musician who has to pick and choose about where i spend my money, and my original op-1 is still kicking butt as it has been for years. it is a super versatile and pocketable sketch pad that continues to dazzle people who haven't seen it before. and, i use it monthly in live performances and don't see the need to try to resell it just to pay a premium for a mild evolution that does not imo justify the high price tag.

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks for watching!

[@leokimvideo]

I notice the OP1 Field is set up in stores at a low level with popular children's toys around it. It has me strongly thinking it's being marketed to younger people with rich parents. A younger person is not going to understand the inherent limitations and frustrations of the device. The angry fan boys & girls are just trying to justify the money they blew up buying one.

[@simonsaysboo]

Your intro reminds me of the intro to The A-Team… “If you need them and nobody else can help…”

[@SURCOlive]

Hahaha. I wanted to be them when I was little.

[@elissitdesign]

You absolutely nailed this one! 💯 I believe their biggest fail on this machine is onboard memory and storage. This has to be the cheapest of hardware component improvements which there isn’t a shortage on. It appears that they didn’t upgrade the chip which has inherent memory limitations hence the no improvement.

[@jessejarrar]

I’d love to get an m8, they aren’t the easiest to come by. I rarely make music outside of my house anyways, but if I do, I just take a power bank and the syntakt.

[@SURCOlive]

Nice choice!

[@Kevinschart]

syntakt has only been out for about a month

[@glynnpowell7864]

M8 is hard to use, and not musical really at all. Very computer programmy type thong

[@SURCOlive]

@@glynnpowell7864Im actually looking forward to giving it a try myself to see if it fits with my workflow and creative process before judging it impartially, the same as I did with the OP1. I love that everyone can use whatever works best for them because there isn't a right or wrong way to be creative. But that's just a 'non-musicians' opinion. ;)

[@glynnpowell7864]

@@SURCOlive It’s really cool! Just gotta know what you’re getting into. I’m too poor at focusing to work in that fashion. To each their own!

[@christofferainek]

Man if the OP-1 sold for Switch prices, I’d pick it up in a heartbeat.

[@PlantMusicLife]

As an owner of an Op-1, I’d never buy this. I bought my OP-1 new for about $900, which is the most I’ve ever paid for a piece of music gear. Considering you could buy a fully functional computer with music software, or a really nice synth, for less than the cost of one of these, I’d say it’s a ripoff. They were probably losing money and felt pressure to bring a new product to market without doing the research. It looks great, but that’s about it.

[@SirTubeALotMore]

Impressive summary … 👌

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks!

[@andrewmasterman2034]

Lack of sequencer for the synths?

[@richarddufresne2683]

Bravo ! :-). You have encapsulated a lot of the arguments I have to not buy the TE OP-1 Field.

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks for watching!

[@willswitchcraft]

great overview and perspective...................nice to hear your brutal honesty, well put together, completely well founded and researched.........

[@mr-iz8cx]

Thanks for the pragmatism. Could I ask what in your opinion has the most fully featured drum synth engine? Software or hardware. There's a glut of synths but very few drum synths. I found the syntakt pretty limited. Haven't tried the Nord Drum. I have a Tempest but want digital. Something to create original sounds

[@SURCOlive]

My too drum synth is 100% the Analog RYTM. The analog engines are really great and the ability layer samples and resample is awesome. My favorite by far.

[@mr-iz8cx]

@@SURCOlive Thanks for writing back. I'll have to try and get my hands on one. I've never seen the drum engine functions pages on the RYTM. Do you think RYTM has more potential/plasticity in sound design than the machinedrum? Cheers

[@SURCOlive]

@@mr-iz8cx very different. Machinedrum is all digital and RYTM is analog. Machinedrum has more tracks but RYTM tracks are deeper. RYTM ads a lot of performance functions but doesn’t sequence external gear well. I would personally go with the RYTM over any other drum machine, but that is just me. Thanks for watching and for the question.

[@mr-iz8cx]

@@SURCOlive thanks very much. Looking forward to more videos from you

[@matthewgaines10]

The OP-1 Field has one advantage. Portability. The portability doesn’t offset the price penalty. Nor does the additions offset price increase price over the original. A cool device at a savage price with not enough incentives to overcome the value proposition.

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

5:42 I mean, I’m on board with everything you’re saying so far but you can’t say that it’s not for professionals when there are a list of highly regarded professional musicians, using them such as Thom Yorke, Justin Vernon (Bon Iver), Alejandro Cortini of NIN and many more.

[@SURCOlive]

It’s not that it’s not for professionals. A professional can make music with anything. They market it as a pro device but it’s missing many basic pro device tools. If a pro makes music by hitting sticks together, that doesn’t make the sticks pro devices. ;) Thanks for watching.

[@ChrisTopheRaz]

@@SURCOlive well I can’t say that I disagree with you since I’ve been a musician for 35+ years. I guess it was on the wording because that makes sense.

[@otuon2441]

I always wanted the first op-1 because of its looks and it's "photogenic" genes. As I got deeper into hardware instruments it became more ad more less appealing. Don't get me wrong if I see one from 4-500 one day I'll grab it to have a quick little fun toy. I have seen professional artists use it for production and also live settings but it was never a centerpiece.with the new one, while again it's kinda cool looks and fashion designer accessory piece bit makes me intrigued but it's just a fashionable n statement piece. My mc101 has more capabilities at less than a fraction of the cost. I can also (still saving up) get a Syntakt which gives me proper ins and outs, companion software, massive list of capabilities and so on. Teenage engineering is a cool fashion designer company. A duffle bag and a Gucci handbag only differ in appearance and the imaginary worth that the company has imposed on the product and general public accepting it. Same goes for TE and their recent products. I don't want a fancy purse I want an instrument that focuses on functionality than imaginary value.

[@muitosabao]

you nailed it. "status toys". We're gonna be seeing live acts for sure in the coming times, featuring the field, and it's going to be a statement. A guitar, loopers, reverbs and a field for blips and blops. And don't get me wrong, I had the original op1, and i'm sorry i sold it. but i cannot stand the greed from TE right now. Craving for status and greed are just vomit inducing...

[@synthseeker]

Fair commentary. It's up to you to determine if you have the need, and use cases (and cash) that fits the OP-1F, but no reason to be all rage about it if you buy it or not. Looking forward to more vids / performances.

[@SURCOlive]

Totally agree. Interesting positioning choice by TE, but not for me to judge. Thanks for watching!

[@256k_]

respectfully disagree on the "it's not for a professional musician" but i appreciate your reasonable arguments. there is a large list of professional musicians that own and use the OP-1 on songs that make it to a final album release (beck and deadmau5 are 2 names that come to mind but there are more) most professional musicians are not looking to buy a groovebox, but an instruments to track onto a session of pro tools or something similar with all their other instruments that they and/or their bandmates are playing. and the op-1 provides a wide variety of synth engines and cool weird sounding presets that are enjoyable and useful. consider a fender guitar priced at 2000$, it's merely some machined wood with nice pickups and quality pots and strings. and this would be considered a decently priced guitar. i 100% agree with you that the majority of people reacting are indeed the hobbyists that do not earn much income from music and where music is more of a money taking rather than a money making endeavour. and for those people (me included, 2000$ is a huge price!) I will definitely be saving up for it because i already own the OP-1 and i find it extremely satisfying and fun and creative to use with very low friction to get going. i treat it as i do my guitar sitting in the corner of my room, daily grab it, doodle around on it, sometimes i'll record something for posterity and then set it aside feeling satisfied. I am in no rush to buy the OP-1 field, I will save up for it and maybe in a year i will get one, something wonderful about OP-1 is that the time scale of the instrument is very long so missing out on the first year doesn't worry me much nor trigger any FOMO whereas some other instruments sometimes, a couple of years after release the instrument is long abandoned by the company to try and capitalize on the latest craze. I hope you take my words as a reasonable discussion point from an alternative point of view by a OP-1 fan rather than some fanboy blindly defending teenage engineering, lord knows they aren't perfect. PS. i hate the fact that it doesn't have trs midi :'(

[@nriicv1572]

My counter to the "professional musician" thing: Beck and Deadmau5 are certainly pro's, but that level of stardom is sort of a class in and of itself. They basically have infinite resources in their group, so tracking the OP-1 into a track is a no-brainer since they have access to basically whatever they want. No one is saying the OP-1 can't sound amazing and has a very creative workflow. It just doesn't have a feature set that seems to have any interest in competing with "pro" gear in a similar category, making it seem far less useful than it should be for what they're advertising. I mean, you could put a Volca on a hit song, and if its a good song no one would know or care, but it doesn't make it "pro gear", right? I'm sure it has happened. I feel like TE has earned this, because its pretty bold to make a product for this category of buyer... If it works out for them, great, and if people enjoy it great, but I think it will always be seen as a bit of a ridiculous piece of kit, and for good reason.

[@opart]

@@DrFearCo Agree with what 256k said, 2000 is huge for a hobbyist, but on the other hand TE is still a small company that is still innovating and experimenting a lot, so it's not like they can compete against big companies that mass produce gear. Thus the "custom" price hike - which is probably paying for R&D for their other products.

[@256k_]

@@nriicv1572 Fair point! i totally agree with you. i think the confusion comes from the label "pro" i think this is a very subjective label and can be different to different people, perhaps it would be more helpful to call them "traditional" gear? the OP-1 is definitely a wacky bit of kit no one can deny it. i think in the end it boils down to workflow and enjoyment. some people feel very creative and inspired by it, others dislike it's weird and forcefully limited composition nature, but that's the beauty of having so much gear to pick from, we can all ahve stuff we like

[@Purrrelll]

Finneas and Billie Eiliesh has one too. %100 agree with you, TE is a botique company, OP-1 is more than 10 years old, and still fresh as the first day it came out, I am sure that people hating OP-1 has never used one. Try one first, then come here and write.

[@SURCOlive]

Just wanted to throw out there a little nuance. I didn’t say it’s not for a professional musician or that it couldn’t be used by a professional musician to make music. Anything can be used by anyone to make sounds. Many people use field recordings from their phone to make music. My issue is with TE saying it is professional equipment when they mislead many laymen by overlooking the basic connectivity shortcomings one would expect from ‘professional’ level equipment at the price. It would be like a car company selling a car as a race car for professionals or a work truck for professionals at the highest price point in the segment, but including an engine with one piston missing. Then they wrote the omission off as a way to drive more creatively. A pro could sit in it, turn it on, put it in gear, and do a lot of things with it, but it would still never be a professional race car or work truck. My comments were based on the thought that people should have all the information before making such a large purchase. If they still want to at that point, they absolutely should.

[@subiesojourner777]

Spot on. For those who want to spend the 2K, good for them, can I afford one? Yep, but not gonna buy. Instead, I too ordered a M8.

[@1UpBebop]

Friend bought an OP1 for $800 a year or so after they came out. At ya know, it's real MSRP. It broke like 2 years ago. He had a heart attack when he saw that TE had steadily increased the OP1 prices year over year and it's now at $1399. He decided not to replace it, obviously. I jokingly sent him a message the other day telling him a new OP1 came out and he can now replace his broken one. The poor guy assumed that the new one would be around the original MSRP of the OP1, he was so excited. "SWEET! I wont mind paying a tad extra for a MK2 with some good features. I gotta check it out!"... Thirty minutes later I get a message just saying "THIS IS A JOKE RIGHT?"

[@lit3work]

Nailed it. I have a nice car. I’d like a supercar and with several sacrifices could probably buy one. But I’m not a super car manufacturer target buyer. I can’t personally balance my likes and wants for a supercar with my other commitments and the value is derive from rebalancing them. Same goes for this. I like it. Had an OG and sold it. Sometimes think I’d like to try it again but it’s not a necessity and I can’t balance up the want with the rebalancing of my music making tools as a hobbyist. Loving your content and channel man. Appreciate you.

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks so much for watching!

[@captnoplan3926]

Great summary and mature response. Folks don't have to play the status game. But TE kinda did pull the middle finger on their existing fans who helped them become what they are today. Lots of folks can't afford the 2k price tag or would have to save up for it for a long time. So let's see whether TE have out-priced themselves.

[@kobi-kobsen]

Even if money is not important, this is just a bad style. They dont do much and they try to position the divice not by function but by a high price. I already had a bad feeling when they justified the last price increase with the higer price of the display - you dont need to justify your prices, but if you do, do it w/o bullshit. But if you double the price it is most certainly bullshit.

[@grandmasterjo1]

A brilliant synopsis on the OP1 Field. 👍👍 Btw TE is not producing Berkin Bags to justify the ridiculous price tag The Field is an over expensive toy with over hype. Highly exaggerated and the only credit it gets is It looks pretty. 😜

[@nalaeel219]

$2000 of nope!!!!!

[@station2station544]

Well said. I never heard T.E. saying "chip prices are the reason". That's just people assuming. I think they are doing exactly what you said: creating their own luxury sphere. They'll sell them...not as many as they would if they kept the original price, but they'll sell some.

[@Solidahmed]

Well said. A very coherent and respectful views on the matter.

[@jaishchada]

VERY well said - on ALL points. Subscribed!

[@mozzdog]

I'll also add to the 2k is ridiculous for a portable synth. I was looking into the Roland full size synths at that price. Also, for 1k you can use an Ipad pro if you want portability, sound design, tracking, etc. I also use the MPC Live for $1200 that can do all of these things plus be the heart of a dawless set up. 2k is just a miss no matter how you slice it.

[@geofff6671]

Really excellent analysis which puts TE and the OP1 field into perspective. I won’t be buying one for the same reason I won’t buy a $5000 Hermes silk scarf. But I understand some people do. I do worry about novices assuming that because the OP1 is so expensive it must be good and mistakenly purchasing it. I must admit when I was getting into groove boxes I was wondering whether to buy it? there is a small vocal group that love it and would say its like nothing else and the price suggested it must have great functionality. Having much better knowledge now I am so glad I didn’t buy it and now realise it is really just a very expensive toy.

[@NOXBEATZ]

Multiplatinum and gold mixer/producer. Love mine

[@ethermod307]

Well said! For me it was enough to know that the screen of the new OP1 is not bright enough to use outside. I mean this is obviously a joke. I'm guessing that TE did the original OP1 by accident and since then they have no idea what to do with it. Never bothered to listen to anyone who have used it and they kept producing irrelevant design objects that barely have anything to do with music.

[@kungfubeatsbysifufilter9431]

Completely agree with your analysis. They are free to set the tag price and we are free to buy it or not. After all this probably a good GAS therapy.

[@Surrealistic78]

People don’t spend their money based on logic anymore, and that’s something TE knows really well.

[@LordAus123]

I think the anger and defensiveness from both sides is due to dishonesty. Those angry about the price feel that TE hasn’t been honest about their intentions as a company and thus feel betrayed. Those defending TE are not being honest about what the OP-1 really is: a luxury gadget toy for the musically inclined with deep pockets. So many people argue that it isn’t a toy or that they like it because it’s so unique, not because it’s pretty and quirky. Everyone just needs to be honest. TE needs to own the market segment they’re really going for, not “pros”. Those upset about the price need to be honest that their favorite quirky company isn’t out to democratize portable beatmaking. And fanboys need to be honest about them liking the design and allure of the device just as much as they like its musical capabilities, which it objectively is lacking.

[@hozae6368]

what a great presentation at the end! love the fact that you trying to be respect both company and consumers.

[@SURCOlive]

Glad you liked it!

[@kalkydra]

Great insight!, thanks. Cheers!.

[@djdonkeyslap]

No way I am buying the field at this price point. I disagree. Total mistake. They have change the perception of Teenage Engineering from cool to fool by 100 times.

[@Poverello2001]

I don’t own an OP1 for two reasons. First is the price and the second is functionally. Although it has a great form factor and gets high marks for portability, it just doesn’t have the functionality that I would expect for a device that costs $1999. There are much better options available, in my opinion.

[@Jonwa63]

Looking forward to getting hold of one!

[@ytJnC]

For whatever reason they chose to partner with IKEA to design audio goods. But the problem is that IKEA starts with a price in mind. The margins are far slimmer than what TE has historically enjoyed, and has to be shared with IKEA. Those slim margins have to be made up by increasing the margins on TE exclusive gear. The IKEA relationship has also taken design time and focus away from TE. In a sense, they are a victim of their initial successes.

[@tubeMonger]

Yeah it's a thought out segment and most likely excludes some the hobbyists that just want to have fun with the gear. I just wonder who their audience, the customers at this price point are and I also wonder if OP-1 Field could be a bit more expensive - like $5,000.00? I mean it depends who they want to sell the device, with the luxury value, to.

[@sundownsupper7409]

I recently purchased an OG OP-1 that was new open box for about 650$. 5-600 is a perfect amount for what you get I don’t think 1999 for an “updated” op-1 is even close to reasonable. Their products are geared forwards high end consumers who don’t want to go through the “gear industry” lol

[@emilianoescalante4418]

Hi, quite accurate in your observations, and may I say you have a beautiful view sparkly lights behind you! 😉

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks!

[@reggieflo]

The Field is also midi host, with wireless midi in/out and mfi. You are underestimating the connectivity this thing now has.

[@SURCOlive]

Not underestimating at all. Wireless midi is not connectivity when it requires other devices to also be wireless midi compatible. 99% of studio equipment is not wireless midi compatible. This is at the core of the lack of professional compatibility when nearly all equipment has universal midi standard via either DIN or TRS. This limitation makes it impossible for me to consider the device properly connectable to a broader professional studio setup. Thanks for watching.

[@reggieflo]

@@SURCOlive it also supports midi through usb of course lol

[@reggieflo]

@@SURCOlive and they updated the current model to be audio interface. This thing is literally a Swiss Army knife now. Each feature isn’t the best in its class. But it has everything you need in package you bring anywhere. I sleep in my van between a full time mobile DJ schedule. I don’t have time to go back to a studio nor do I have space for all the gear necessary to emulate the OP-1 field. It’s perfect for me and It doesn’t even come close to being the most expensive music instrument I ever bought. Further more, I don’t understand why people need to choose between this and other equipment. This and the M8 would be absolutely dope together. Why do I have to pick one?

[@SURCOlive]

As I mention in the video it is good for some people, and not for others. My issue was with misrepresenting what it is and the high price for what it is. If it works for you that is awesome.

[@officialsimonharris]

It's something that rich parents will buy for spoilt kids who want one to show off to their friends, to hit that nerve like the people who would want the latest iPhone just because it's cool and known to be expensive bling (not because of it's functionality) . . . It's worth it for Teenage Engineering to tap into that market if they can - good luck to them - it will also be for the kind of musicians who are into bling or can only be 'inspired' to make music on something that's the most expensive . . . status symbol but music is entertainment and like I said if TE can tap into that then that's cool . . . remember one thing though, professional producers use certain instruments (including plug ins) because of what they sound like, not what they look like.

[@randydodge7295]

I think this is a pretty great take. I honestly don’t understand the tribal attitude over this whole thing. The list of improvements is 75% fluff, and there is little doubt there is a steep mark up, other than that I think the cost vs features set and whether or not something is “pro” is a weak and unnecessary argument. No doubt a professional that needs to get a specific project done in a specific way isn’t going to find the op1 extremely useful under all circumstances and can allocate their business expenses in more strategic ways. That being said an artist whether it’s their living or not can and should use whatever works for them. It doesn’t really matter which consumer electronics companies is our favorite, it’s which product does the job we need and how we are willing to invest our money in those products.

[@Blogspierre]

Bullseye.

[@russellwitter661]

FM transmitter functionality?!? A pirate radio station in your pocket!

[@harveytherobot]

This is a perfect, reasoned evaluation. What might be crazy to some people might not be to others. The OP-1 was never about practicality, and in some sense, no grooveboxes are. Most electronic music production can be done on a laptop or even a tablet or phone now. I think of the OP-1 more like a really expensive pair of sneakers. Do I want one? Sure! Looks really fun to play with. Do I need one? Of course not.

[@matthewgaines10]

Since when does making music on a phone (even on a Phablet) sound “practical”. You and I have very different definitions of practical. Working on a phone is like trying to work through a mail slot. The only thing practical about a phone is you already have one. On the other hand, just because I have something, it doesn’t make it the best tool for the job. A large wrench can be used to drive nails too but why would you want to.

[@harveytherobot]

@@matthewgaines10 Financially practical.

[@glynnpowell7864]

@@harveytherobot ifif you’re being financially practical, you might not want to be a musician

[@harveytherobot]

@@glynnpowell7864 Well, that’s true.

[@davidnajarian7271]

"no one should pay this price for an op-1" referenced a ebay listing that was $8000.00... not this price for the OP-1f

[@beatnikcafe]

I think getting an Octatrack + a Hydrasynth Explorer for $2098 sounds like the ultimate starter pack for a serious hobbiest that has professional ambitions.

[@SerpentLightDrums]

As a hobby musician. I would have loved to buy something that is a well designed, professional, all in one, carry in your back pack kind of tool. A small gadget that looks good, feels good, and lets me make semi professional sounding music on the go. That also has a friendly price tag and preferably lets u work with your project on a computer if u need to tweak it later. I guess I was kind of hoping for this machine to do all that… Leaves me wondering if there is such a machine on the market? Also, what did you use for the beats playing in the intro here? Sounds right up my street… I think I would like to make stuff that sounds somewhere in between psy-trance and ambient sort of thing. Thanx in advance.

[@SURCOlive]

This could have been that with a few small changes, but… my personal favorite all in one device is the Synthstrom Deluge. It is my go to travel device at the moment. I am awaiting a Dirtywave M8 for a smaller option. I’ve heard good things. If you don’t need internal battery power the Elektron boxes are great (intro music done on them). MPC live is very powerful and battery powered but less portable. Finally there are a lot of tablet and phone apps that can be used with portable midi controllers. I’d love to hear what you find. Thanks for watching!

[@SerpentLightDrums]

@@SURCOlive thanks a bunch for taking the time. Ye like I said before. I think my research tells me to get something like a cheap midi keyboard, and then get FL studio for my ipad pro or mac book pro. But then I would have to get some quite pricey software synths as well etc, and I guess by that time it’s starting to get rather pricey. Thats why something like this all in one is so attractive. Since my day job is graphics and computers, it would be nice to not have to do more computer work* when doing music. I will re-search the machines u mentioned. Thanks again. Also where can I hear your music?

[@SURCOlive]

Definitely check the Deluge

[@ManCalledMif]

Well articulated thoughts and I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments expressed 🙌🏼

[@sivabala5425]

If that was for fun, get a Psr-e473 from Yamaha. I got one and it is insane fun. $300 makes it even more fun

[@nonyabuiz2023]

Thanks for your educated opinion.

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks for watching!

[@matt-lang]

"The best camera is the one you have with you." In the case of the OP-1 and other TE products, it applies to synths/instruments, but the sentiment is the same. If the OP-1 Field is the device that you buy and take with you and enjoy making music on, it's a good value. Also, they use much higher end materials and build quality compared to competitor devices, and offer far more functionality than most competitor devices as well. There's just nothing that combines the size, portability (with a long-lasting rechargeable battery), and general functionality (sampling, sequencing, recording, effects, synths, percussion, etc) that the OP-1 and OP-1 Field offers. And of all my synths/instruments, the OP-1 is the only one that I don't think I would ever sell (unless I upgraded to the Field), and it's one that I just keep going back to when I want to have fun while creating some music. My only real issue has been with the continuous price increases on the OP-1 even before the Field came out, which is the opposite of what you'd normally expect for devices that are ~10 years old, since cost of components/manufacturing generally reduces over time. But I think TE backed themselves into a corner with the CNC'd and painted aluminum on the OG OP-1, since the cost of making that enclosure has undoubtedly gone up significantly over time, and their upgrades to the display, keys, and battery for the OP-1 V2 also would have increased the cost of parts. I hope that the OP-1 Field has been designed/engineered with those issues in mind so that they don't have to go through a V-2 redesign and increase costs of this device as well...

[@matt-lang]

Also, I think the OP-1 Field suffered from the TX-6 coming out a bit before it launched, which at $1200 is the most expensive "portable mixer" that most people have seen. But again, the functionality of the TX-6 goes beyond a regular mixer, with a variety of effects built in, its own synth/sequencer engines, and the promise of upgrades to functionality (including the possibility of a built-in recording function) through software updates down the line. But when there's a BASTL Dude for ~$100 that offers the same basic mixing function that works for most people, it becomes tough for someone to justify buying the TX-6 over a less expensive alternative. I think the price of the TX-6 and the perception of it have tainted the perception of the Field as a result. But give it ~6 months and once some of the bigger youtube musicians/creators have had a chance to use it, I expect we'll see a softening of concern on the pricepoint of the Field lineup...

[@axelcodr]

what great opinion, really! finally a well explained option backed by real info!

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks for watching!

[@ion677]

Is it PRO? Perhaps not. Will it be used by pros? Definitely. Maybe. Sometimes. There have been quite a few big name acts who use the original op-1. The op-1 field is simply an upgrade and it will definitely make it’s way into some studios as a muse for creativity, inspiration, etc . . .

[@alexwestconsulting]

I saw almost universal interest in the Syntakt, only concerns about cannibalization within the Elkton ecosphere. I didn't even see people complaining about the price, everyone finding it rather justified, especially when compared to the Rytm. And the new Rolands had a more lackluster reception, but then too didn't see anyone criticizing them particularly, no more than a vague "too little to late" sort of critique. Only the Op 1 Field was met this level of disdain, and for good reason.

[@1dkappe]

If only the Elektron gear had one touch transposition. As it is, it’s only useful for one chord EDM vamps (or use a keystep to sequence it or stick to drums).

[@alexwestconsulting]

@@1dkappe analog 4 can certainly transpose in real time. I’ve got a model cycles but admittedly haven’t used the chords on it much. I was under the impression that it, and syntakt, can handle real time transposition but that there's an inherent complexity with respect to handling the key which it doesn't do, so it's transpose in real time, just won't change the chord shape with respect to the key. Need to sequence that, yeah. Anyway, I just use my analog 4s for melodic bits. But yeah, if your point is that the chord feature isn’t exactly the most sophisticated and that people have noted it, then true that. I remember Ricky Tinnez saying that there’s not enough customization on them to prevent them from sounding like everyone else. But hey, sounding like everyone else never held the 909 back.

[@1dkappe]

@@alexwestconsulting just never use it with a singer who might turn around and say “hey, can we do this a half step lower tonight?” 😂

[@goldentemples9041]

all good man, but that "no one should pay" is taken out of context - that was when news was that OP-1's were out of production due to the screens supplier closing (or something like that) and someone in Sweden paid between 7-8 grand for a used one - that's what they were referencing. Peace out

[@dingbatjack1234]

If I think it's overpriced it's "tribal"?

[@streetlife20]

You see the price on that little mixer they’re selling now? 😵😵😵😵

[@MegaToneProductions]

Bottom line….. I can do more with less expensive equipment. Such as….. my touch phone.

[@ogunckardelen4645]

I don’t get this discussions about if OP1 is a toy or a professional gear. There are professional bands who make great music with literally garbage. You can make with anything “professional” music also with children toys. At the end it’s not about the gear, your creativity and your way.

[@SURCOlive]

You can drive in a nail with a rock, but there is a reason why carpenters don't have tool belts full of rocks. Especially $2K rocks. I agree music can be made with anything. TE stated in their marketing that this was a professional piece of kit and are charging accordingly. I was only stating as a professional that this would not be for me because of the unprofessional handicaps they built into it (beyond the 'creative' workflow). Thanks for watching!

[@TheASM196]

Any company in the luxury - non essentials - segment is free to charge what they want (in theory) as the laws of the market will determine whether that price was justified or not. That is what TE is doing here - they are putting themselves in the luxury bracket and they released a luxury toy with an extreme price. As a consumer, I will not support a company that does that, and will ignore their products until they either go belly-up or fire their marketing advisers and come back down to earth.

[@Cartel336]

very well put and I totally agree

[@jcmc1111]

The Apple company of the synth industry

[@johnwood9232]

Excellent analysis

[@SURCOlive]

Thanks!

[@SerpentLightDrums]

Exactly how I feel about this toy. Its a Game Boy priced as a high end PC. I personally will probably buy a cheap midi keyboard and fruity loops instead.

[@MsAdrian1958]

Hi Good analysis Surco. I'm firmly in the camp of buy what you like at the price you like. If you don't like it then don't buy it. As someone else said I can afford it but won't get one. I also don't get the visceral hatred some people have for some brands or products. TE seems to be one and Behringer is another. More choice is good but don't send vitriol in the direction of other people or companies that don't do it for you. The market will sort it out.

[@DanJanTube]

It's a silly box at a crazy price and they're going to sell every single one they produce.