Fan Review Exposes the Biggest Problem with HBO’s DUNE Prophecy

[@NerdCookies]

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[@stcredzero]

The problem: It's not Frank Herbert Dune. It's not even completely Brian Herbert Dune! (But if it were very much Brian Herbert Dune, that would still be a bit of a problem.)

[@cjdebono8811]

​@@stcredzero I was hoping for the Butler Jihad instead of this

[@anthonywarren9885]

You are delusional.

[@rickbase833]

@@stcredzero As an avid reader of the Frank books, Prophecy does adhere to Frank's themes like Plots within Plots......we got to see the first Face Dancer......first Ixian....etc.

[@whabs8792]

When you understand how the Dune Universe works the way FH had written, the nightclub scenes are so jarring to watch. The emperor's son and daughter are going to some shady unknown club, filled with people that take narcotic gas without any form of test for poison, no guards or even disguised guards to protect them from assassins/kidnappers from Houses or just regular people, it really breaks the immersion. And the fact that they go there only to talk to one or two people at best, not causing any fanfare or batting an eye from passerby's makes them feel so unimportant, considering we are talking about the Padishah Emperor's children.

[@ArchReverend]

Yeah i was wondering that too. Like where is the security? Also the lack of any element of protections it robs the audience of the sense of presence the imperial royal family should carry. When the Emperor enters the room, we the audience should feel it. If the princess goes to a night club, that club should be first swarmed with guards which would make any future shady folks from ever going there in the future.

[@luciaceba4640]

have any of you ever been to a proper underground nighclub in any big city? it is just like that :p

[@markj3169]

Everything was way chill back the

[@santos.l.halper1999]

while I agree mostly with the notion, I think we're expecting too much from this series. It's a half cocked story anyway and I'm not a fan of BH and KJA. I do feel it is lacking when it comes to the mystique of Frank Herbert's world and moreso the air of excellence and knowledge of an advanced society that was conveyed adequately in Villeneuves films. I can see they're trying with Prophecy but it misses the mark...

[@GenXCoder]

Don't forget this series is happening 10,000 year prior to the first Dune book, right after the machine wars. Those levels of paranoia do not necessarily exist yet. I have a great love for all the original books and the new ones too. It is not beyond belief that some things are less refined during this period of time.

[@Green_Phos]

I can't get over that the Emperor's own "swordmaster" looks like he's barely out of highschool.

[@LuizBarrosPoa]

Well, he had to be young and handsome because we must have a love triangle somewhere, right? 😂

[@Green_Phos]

@@LuizBarrosPoa 🤮

[@jamesmurphy9426]

Its called Spice

[@darbyohara]

You can clearly see the show is written with a feminist woke bias. All the men are evil or incompetent or take their lead from women. They then put good looking young guys into roles made for wise old grizzled men

[@gbogbominin]

Spice plays a role in it as well as the fact that Atreides themselves have a quite long lifespan as vorian (the first atreides ever got i jected with a life lengthening drug by his fater who as a cyborg whith a humam brain.

[@MrTickleTrunk]

All modern shows have this issue as well as having a bland, almost completely homogeneous art style across all properties.

[@Bustaperizm]

When you go to school to become a writer. They all come out the same.

[@_KRYMZN_]

@@Bustaperizm idk if you go to writing school to learn art direction for film, but I do suppose “bad writing” has now become somewhat of a catch-all for things we don’t like in shows, so go off

[@Bustaperizm]

@_KRYMZN_ ratings speak for themselves. Not everyone has to lower their standards so far to like everything you do. But, won't stop you from being smug about it. Go off.

[@eamonnholland5343]

It's lovingly (hatefully) and justifiably called "goyslop". If you don't know why, I feel sorry for you. For more info, please use actual free speech sites.

[@leonodonoghueburke4276]

​@@BustaperizmWhy are you being such an arse when all he did was correct you?

[@3091181]

For gods sake stop giving Brian Herbert money.

[@princea5886]

It just feels so small. Like the Emperor's new task force is like 80 dudes. He seems like the Lord of a medium sized house in Game of Thrones, not the emperor of the known universe.

[@andrewjansen1012]

If these are the Sardukar, then that was a test company, proof of concept. Instead of dumping money into regiment sized or an entire corp of troops, test out the combat effectiveness of the new troops before you fund it fully. That's how I justify it.

[@MoietyVR]

Mankind and the landsraad are still in the cradle - only recently independent of thinking machines. Most of the people in the imperium, which there are not many, are going to be subsistence farmers or workers in whatever commodity their world supplies the imperium. Right now, House Corrino is in power not because it is strong enough to maintain power by force but because everyone agreed they should be.

[@markrogers1786]

I mean I feel the same about the actual dune movies as well. 61 billion are supposed to die but house atreides in its entirety only looked like 1000 people. The fremen are supposedly millions but the most you ever see is a few thousand. The bene gessuit looks like 20 women. It’s hard to scale these things I guess.

[@KamBB-gu3pv]

Exactlyyy, I was like??? Aren’t you going to need more guys than that??

[@ivanatreides]

The disco scene is so out of the Dune universe. I hated it and the coke snorting.

[@mr.q8023]

Spice

[@Dfunkingguy]

The spice must flow

[@MatthewH-hp8bp]

Problem is this: The writing just sucks. True, 6 episodes is a reduced number, but it’s still 6 hours which are available to catch our attention. They haven’t. That’s the problem.

[@Khahrahk-sz2jf]

I hate how most tv shows nowadays have fewer episodes.

[@ashleyelisabeth4]

I blame this on the writers not giving the main characters any backstories or internal conflict until later in the show. That's something that should've been shown in the first 10 minutes of the pilot

[@darbyohara]

The writing is shit and despite great cgi and visuals and acting it ruins the show

[@JediBubba-5-77]

I’m enjoying the series overall but the scenes in the night club and a weird CW crossed with Star Wars vibe that takes me out of it a little bit. Also the Lansrad council meeting seemed less grandiose than I pictured in my head when I would read about the Lansrad. Seemed like SyFy channel level of science fiction.

[@1984-i1w]

the sex scenes and doing lines in the first 3 episodes was a bit much

[@askani21]

In 10,000AG, people call it "The Empire of a million worlds". It is thought to be an exaggeration, people don't even know how many planets there are. But planet representatives should be more than a few dozens lol. They should have made a bigger Landsraad

[@ryanjamesbarr1465]

It’s not the full Landsraad, just the High Council which would be only a handful of Houses

[@askani21]

@@ryanjamesbarr1465 Huh, yeah, you're right. That would explain the small size. It's the VIP lounge lol

[@Proaz15]

Don't disrespect SyFy like that, thank to it we got the most faithful dune.

[@penneyburgess5431]

Frank took years to create the world of Dune. This series, like many others, have taken a serious work of fiction and reduced it to commercial redundancy. I have nothing against the writers or the actors. It’s just the ultimate expectation of immediate success based on such a great work being reduced to being just like every other show.

[@MoietyVR]

I very much disagree. The next episode will be telling but it has been very compelling from my point of view as someone who has been a Dune superfan and collector for decades.

[@shanenolan5625]

Club scenes are a no , the sex scenes make sense, those happen in the books ,

[@LordOfNihil]

people like dune because it was star wars for grown ups. it seems like backpedaling to get the younger crowd on board. it just doesn't belong, not even in this timeline. stop trying to be game of thrones, we all know how that turned out.

[@Rauruatreides]

There's a difference between having sex scenes which advance plot and character, and ones that exist to say "look, two attractive people are doing it." Frank was never into sex as something edgy and adult, but rather as something to explore aspects of human psychology and such.

[@Cethinn]

@@LordOfNihil It's more accurate to say Star Wars was Dune for children.

[@nicholashermes5023]

Thank you! Been saying this for a month. Don't be Game of Thrones, show. Dune has a different texture.

[@deepaksingh-ku9uf]

Such a retarded comment 😂😂😂😂

[@j.jennings1722]

I've been a huge Dune fan since '71, and I'm enjoying the series, despite the deliberative pacing. I'm not a fan of the YA elements that are included, but not because I dislike YA (The Hunger Games is one of my favorite book and movie series), no, it's because it feels out of place, IMO. Each episode has picked up the pace and ramped up the intrigue a bit more, so I'm hoping the final two episodes give us a satisfying payoff. I see the series as tied to the movies but also a thing all to itself, being so far in the past. People ask, why so little has changed from the beginning of the Corrino empire until Paul becomes emperor, and that was one of the main points Frank Herbert was trying to make. His point was that being ruled over by empire, in a feudal manner, only leads to stagnation and eventual extinction. That is why the God Emperor did what he did, to force humanity from our complacency and fight to survive. He was humanity's greatest villain and our greatest hero, at the same time.

[@bhec7715]

Yeah, I honestly can’t remember a show with a slower pace than this.

[@lerchfreyley1]

3:30 The show is (very) losely based on the Herbert/Anderson prequel books which divide the fans already. It also messes up events in the books timeline. They also skipped right over the Vorian story arc and just mention him

[@jucxox]

Is orry vorian..?

[@MoietyVR]

I don't think Vorian will show up next episode but I think he will come up because certain things will be revealed and a pattern will be understood. I don't think they are changing things in the books, just filling in the blank spots and setting up the next big story.

[@tautrimaskarickas9573]

I don't get how everyone is saying that nothing changes between 0AG and 10191AG. That... is not true? It's supposed to be the time when BG extends it's influence and learns Voice, when Mentats and Facedancers get developed, when Guild cement Imperium's dependence on Spice, even when Suk Doctor school gets established. Imperium IS dynamic, it's just thinking machnines that are illegal. Developing all of those factions should take thousands of yeards into what they are in Book 1; in the show everything's so similar that I might believe it's 500 or 600 years before Paul, but definitely NOT 10k. Overall I find the show to be mostly OK but I won't praise it either

[@trentpeterson3495]

I don't get why they don't just Give a decent show about the bg. I mean it's something we can understand and it bridges a tech world to a post tech world so it can be anything they really want just built around the war.

[@daniellabra4186]

The biggest problem is that that thing is not Frank Herbert's Dune. It's Frank Herbert son's making money machine.

[@thetonetosser]

Fimmel plays Hart almost exactly the same as he portrayed Caleb in Raised By Wolves. Not even bothering to pop into wardrobe to get another costume.

[@KyleCollins-ny4em]

Would be cool if it turns out raised by wolves is in dune universe.

[@hitkid96]

I thought I was the only one who thought that. Its like his RBW performance was not seen by enough viewers that he could get away with it

[@billelliott3507]

It’s also stupid that we still haven’t been shown/ don’t know what exactly it is the Atredies lied about in regards to the Harkonnens. Like we see how angry and driven the sisters are but like, why? What exactly did the Atredies do to merit this?

[@Zennsunni]

The major problem with the story is that they are trying to make Valia a sympathetic character, she’s not, she’s the villain, most of them are, she lies to everyone and murders people, I’m rooting for Carino and the dude that burns people And I gotta say, as a huge fan of Dune and someone who read all the 20 something books, a short frumpy overweight woman is not the image invoked in my mind when I read the books

[@MS-ii1sv]

Most of the sisters are quite lumpy and plain. It's hardly what I would expect from an order based on discipline and improving the human race.

[@jackpackage4278]

It’s pretty clear that HBO just wanted Game of Thrones in Space, and in that respect, they succeeded. I’m a massive fan of Dune but I went into this show knowing it was based on Brian Herbert’s books rather than Frank’s so I was fully expecting it to be like it is. I enjoy it from an entertainment standpoint but it most certainly feels like a different world than Frank’s books.

[@paulmasters1181]

I read like 1.5 of the Brian Herbert books (they came out when I was in middle school, I think while I was reading the originals for the first time). I was super excited, and then I made it through Atriedes and like half of Harkonnen and was like, nah, this is garbage. Obviously my TV standards are far lower, and you're on point - this is enjoyable TV as long as you remember its gonna be more Brian than Frank.

[@Paradox-dy3ve]

I just think the show is very poorly written in general. They never establish any one character's perspective enough for us to give a shit and then they jump around with the perspective so randomly and haphazardly. Feels like it was written by amateurs.

[@digitalartist371]

Just more space lesbians

[@kspo193]

Agreed. I don't understand why there's a disjointed timeline. I highly doubt the book was written that way and it just makes things overly complicated for no good reason.

[@digitalartist371]

@@kspo193 if you wrote about a family from the Egyptian time it would have no connection or continuity with now. They obviously just wanted an excuse to make stunning and brave space lesbians

[@ConkerKing]

FH was a genius... We're never gonna get that depth, subtlety and creativity... Just take it for what it is; s'fine...

[@michaelwills1926]

I mean, if people settle for this then you will never in fact get anything better

[@Rauruatreides]

No. Never is a very strong word which will ultimately prove itself to be disproven. It could be a while, but there are bound to be geniuses who also get lucky enough to spread their work in the future. It's not an if, its a when.

[@RomaInvicta1]

@@michaelwills1926 You won't get anything. Whinge endlessly like Star Wars fans and they will just cancel this show and not make any more Dune.

[@ajb117]

@@RomaInvicta1 Just because you accept uncreative slop doesn’t mean the rest of us have too as well.

[@bremms1]

I have been a Dune fan for 50 years. It feels wrong, its not bad, but it's not great. I have issues with Villenueve's movies as well. But hey.

[@cathulhu3772]

those two, 3 EP mini-series are actually REALLY good. I'm gonna watch this in one sitting but I'm not hopeful. :(

[@AdamNoya]

This show is like a CW production of someone who wants to make game of thrones but skinned it with Dune.

[@ArrakisCentral]

They are closer to the Brian Herbert books, than Villeneuve’s are to Franks.

[@PaulRidgeway-h7l]

So they’re doing a better job adapting worse content?

[@ArrakisCentral]

@ lol I guess so. Ha ha ha

[@Peter2k84]

I enjoy the show. Good enough for me. I understand some of the nitpicking, but Velma got 2 seasons and the Acolyte exists,......, soooooooo

[@anydaynow01]

Yep agreed, series like this take a few seasons to find their footing, especially when they involve so much screen time with young actors still honing their craft. I mean look at Merlin it took how many episodes for that series to find it's footing? With today's six to ten episodes a season for a sci-fi fantasy show Merlin would have taken two or three seasons to catch peoples' interest.

[@fauxbro1983]

Good enough? Eh. These producers want tobdo the bare minimum and make people watch thier mediocre shit out of habit.

[@SweetandFullofGrace]

Wait this show is not shit because Velma and Acolyte, thats some weird logic.

[@AbyssWatch3r]

yeah keep inhaling copium 😂 it sucks plain and simple, another incompetent writers

[@joshuaphilbert7995]

​@@anydaynow01a few seasons?😂. You got too much time on your hand if a show needs "a few seasons" to be watchable.

[@dravendarkmatter]

It's such a shame they couldn't just focus on The Sisterhood and give Emily and Olivia more time to shine, interact, etc. I badly wanted to see the Bene Gesserit training as a trippy and difficult experience in a way that felt psychological and internal. I really want to see Valya and Desmond as proper adversaries, too, and be able to really get into it. Sometimes when I watch this I think that the studio didn't think that two mid-late 50s women characters could carry the show. It feels like the younger characters are all Hot and Having Sex a lot. And I think they don't trust that Watson and Williams will draw in younger viewers but it's such a shame because these are two masters at the top of their game. And Fimmel is also such a star and could have been the rugged handsome appeal kind of character. I agree with his assessment that the younger actors lack life and texture. I think the Bene Gesserit are a sect that have a lot to do with psychology and subtlety and body-mind control, and I'd have loved to see a more internal style of show.

[@TomMorrison-cc6xw]

This is well thought out & makes absolutely total sense. Thanks for the breakdown!

[@lukasboruvka5151]

My personal problem is that they are trying to make it look close to the movie. Show is suppouse to take place 10 000 years ago, but everything looks like as if only few centuries passed. Cultural differences in the 5000 year span of the books are clear as a day. House Corrino is mentioned to be bloodline reaching Jihad, but not said that they had the same name back then. Arrakis is renamed Rakis or Geidi Prime to Gammu. This show just lacks of enough thought about passing of time. The way everything looks different should have been the main focus.

[@delldavis5201]

agree totally - for this to be 10,000years previous the styles and design seem the same as if it were only a few years before the movie events instead of many millennia

[@markalito1]

Also it’s 10,000 years in today’s future so why are the harkonnens cutting whale blubber with medieval tools and everyone is wearing hooded rags like it’s GOT? Seems way more akin to a fantasy series with a dune skin

[@Loki-g3k]

I still haven't watched the show but to say that Dune part two perfectly captured the essence of Frank Herbert books isn't quite true. Actually the movie skipped so many political plotlines because the action sequences are more appealing for a movie.

[@MolotDET]

The Villeneuve movies were not very good adaptations of the source material, they were good movies and at least as "good enough" as either of the previous adaptations. As better and worse than the previous adaptions as they are better and worse than eachother

[@jtillman8251]

Villeneuve captured the essence of Herbert much better than this show did, though I won't argue that a lot was lost in the films.

[@MolotDET]

@@jtillman8251 Don't get me wrong, perhaps I came off more negative than i meant to be. I enjoyed the DeniV films. I just don't think the adaption was in all ways superior to the previous adaptions. I think the Lynch version actually got the essence better. Both versions took major liberties with important story beats. But I think if the Lynch version was able to expand to Messiah it would have been easier to make it seamless. Villeneuve will have to do some major off screen retcons to make Messiah make sense

[@DiscipleOfHeavyMeta1]

I'm bitterly disappointed with the show. I wanted _Dune_ , not YA slop. Seems obvious to me Hollywood is looking to turn _Dune_ into yet another cashgrab scheme. After _Dune: Part III_ , don't expect anything worth watching set in the _Dune Cinematic Universe_ anymore.

[@uclamordsith]

With just 6 episodes, there are so many characters i just don't care at all about, and I don't understand how they're even going to tell a story with only 2 eps left... wait till next (discontinued) season...

[@wartooth88]

Would rather have seen a show that actually takes place during The Machine Crusade than this fan fic drek.

[@professorkatze1123]

the big question is "what is the point of this show"? i watched it but still have no idea

[@stayconnectedoc]

As people have stopped reading, this is the best you're gonna get.

[@SuperStella1111]

People never read. And youth have been going to hell for thousands of years. Read your Sophocles.

[@LastNameTom]

Not a fan so far. The Reverand Mother who just was born with The Voice is ridiculous. It took generations to develop that, and here, the main protagonist just, was born with it? The Atreides being medieval forest people is dumb. They have space travel, went to other planets, and they use medieval tools? Nope. I was excited for it, but now meh.

[@MS-ii1sv]

Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.

[@amurmurmur609]

Anyone who praises Villeneuve’s films loses all credibility to criticize the writing on Prophecy. I felt like Villeneuve looked at the Herbert’s dialogue and said “Make it dumber”, “Can we dumb this down more?”, “Can we go longer with only using one syllable words?”. Every line of dialogue that are in his movies that didn’t come directly from Herbert made me long for the garbage quality of writing that Peter Jackson gave Alfrid F-ing Lickspittle in The Hobbit Trilogy. Prophecy’s writing is decent enough that I don’t want to turn it off before it is over.

[@mara5297]

I would have preferred it if the show had used the angle of the Empress vs the sisterhood. Desmond would still have been interesting, it wouldn’t change the plot. But we could have looked at it squarely from the center of the power struggle - and not worried about the flailing emperor or his bland children.

[@djPoopyCrayon]

As a lifelong Dune Stan I am thoroughly enjoying the series. That being said my wife of 20 years (that has listened to me drone on about the books and the movie adaptations for decades) who has never shown even the slightest interest in the story or any of the movies, is actually into the series! When I asked her why she said the series wasn't as "science fictionie" and somehow seemed more approachable to her.

[@StevenGrace]

I dont like the sex scenes. Im not a prude, i just dont see them as a necessary addition to a tv show.

[@coffeebean_tamer]

Sex scenes are pretty much à given in the 1st season of most HBO séries.

[@erichagen8053]

I like to be realistic without expectations. Enjoy it for what it is and don't compare it to other works of art. Not everyone can make a "Mona Lisa".

[@timber-rider]

I think some people's expectations are impossible to meet. But, I do agree that series like this should have 10 to 12 episodes.

[@BoBoZoBo]

It is impossible to please everybody, but it's not that difficult to meet expectations for the masses. We just had two incredibly successful movies that even please people who were critical about some interpretations.

[@anthonyfaiell3263]

They really aren't though. Literally just stay true to the source material... It's not difficult. If you respect the source material, you will likely please most of the people who enjoy the source material.

[@eric8841]

Typing this before watching the video but I’d say the biggest problem is that they based the series of off Brian’s books instead of Frank’s books.

[@odsuite]

Fire the writers... they obviously have never read the books. I've already seen Game of Thrones, don't need a remake! I'm just not satisfied with this tripe. I've been called a purist, and I guess the title fits. But just because a certain formula worked for one of your other shows, doesn't mean it will work in all contexts! The un-originality is boring... but just what I expected from HBO! Unsure why I got my hopes up!

[@SigPuma]

Like the Rings of Power, the writers fail at emmersive imagination. Plus they either don't trust the sudience with complex ideas or they ain't so smart themselves. In the end, it's another CW clone.

[@leigh5943]

Well put. “…they either don’t trust the audience with complex ideas or they ain’t so smart themselves” sums it up perfectly.

[@chrissidoku4779]

This reminds me of Brian & Kevins books... full circle 😂

[@cdrain68]

The problem with Dune Prophecy is that it source material comes from the worst part of the Dune series - The Sisterhood of Dune so it essentially having to add quite a bit padding to what is weak writing, poor character development and what ever Kevin J Anderon and Brian Herbert can get with their colonic fishing trips. It has worked to a degree but it always feels that there is something lack so far.

[@Mentat1231]

My two cents: I agree some of the actors are not great, and some of the storylines aren't as interesting. Some of the young actors, and most of the scenes from "the club", belong in a CW young-adult show; and it sometimes feels like the random sex scenes are meant to convince us "no no, you're not watching a YA show, even though it seems like it sometimes!". Still, despite those flaws, the strengths more than make up for it, in my opinion. Especially having watched Episodes 3 and 4. I am _hooked!_ I have a lot of love for the books (all original 6 are 5-star books to me, and some of the Brian/Kevin books are 3.5 - 4 stars... I've read the originals 3 times, and everything else once except the newest Caladan stuff and "Winds of Dune"). My name has "Mentat" in it, for goodness' sake. But, I guess I'm just not sure what people are expecting. It's not going to be as focused as a feature film, because it's a series. It's not going to be as deep as Frank's writing, because it's a TV series. And it's not going to be immediately solid or have everything be immediately clear (including the relevance of "the club" or the young characters to the overall plot) until later episodes, because it's a series! LOL. This is perfectly normal to me. I was one of the guys who loved and defended Apple TV's "Foundation", but I fully acknowledge it took a while and meandered through several side arcs and unanswered questions and so on before it became clear what the show was doing and what it could be. So, when I see the sisterhood arcs (Lylah, "Anirul", the prophecy, the blue eyes...), the Desmond arc, the Harkonnen history arc, and even "the club" arc coming together in Episode 4 (capped off by a harrowing scene with Valya and Evgeny and then... spoilers, but YOU KNOW WHAT WE ALL JUST SAW at the end there....... I just, personally, don't understand not being excited to see this through. As for people who have no background except the movies, that's pretty much the situation my wife is in (though she does occasionally get answers from me, both when she asks for them and when she doesn't! Bless her heart...). But, she's following the court politics and what Desmond is up to, she's frightened and intrigued by Other Memory and Lylah and the dreams and the you-know-what at the end of episode 4.... TL;DR, All shows have flaws (even my beloved Stargate had some weak arcs and characters, and some terrible acting here and there). D:P is a very intriguing show overall and should be allowed to grow and be great.

[@nhlcbj]

The show didn’t change show runners, the show runners quit.

[@danelamoreaux4166]

Even though he's a all new character,Desmond Hart is the best in the show.

[@aaronstreitenberger6012]

Interesting to see others have similar issues I do with the series. I would put my biggest complaints as 1) the younger cast is too CW for Dune, 2) the writing isn't good enough to spread out the story this much, 3) the series isn't really philosophically interested in the same things as the Frank Herbert books. My more petty complaints are that this is Cascadian Sci-Fi series being produced in Europe and the lack of North American accents in a series inspired by a book written by guy from Oregon. Great break down of the milieu of criticism for this very disappointing show!

[@BimRen246]

I am enjoying the series and episodes 3 and 4 were strong entries. I think 8 episodes aren't enough for this season. It has left the producers jumping around telling too many story points without giving the individual storylines the growth they deserve. The acting is strong so I have no complaints there. If you are new to Dune you will feel very lost with some of the storylines and visuals because you have no reference point to know what is going on.

[@QBG]

Dune Prophecy could easily be just another Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson expanded Duniverse novel. It basically IS that, in TV show form. Readers of those books can tell you precisely where Prophecy's story fits in the timeline, and drown you with details about all the _many_ references made to characters and events in that extended canon. Personally, I think the show is doing a fine job of telling one of those Brian/Kevin-style stories set in a much earlier era to the new movies, while still incorporating plenty of design and editing nods to Villaneuve's work, hinting at what this universe will look like in 10,000 years. But Frank Herbert's academic prose and deep intention to themes lend a certain gravitas to his six Dune novels, an aspect noticeably lacking in the extended book series, and thus lacking in Dune Prophecy. If you like the extended Dune novels, Prophecy is exactly what you'd want from a Dune show. If you _don't_ like them, it probably feels like rent-controlled Game of Thrones in space. It's not a _bad_ show by any means, but it isn't the mind-fuck spectacle many may expect after seeing the Villaneuve films, or the philosophical rumination on power and faith of Frank Herbert's books. It's just a cool sci-fi drama that adds context and broadens the worldbuilding of this new cinematic Duniverse. It's not perfect or must-see-TV, but I'll take it.

[@daledecker]

The show feels like day time tv and its just a bunch of dialogue without them ever showing us whats happening but instead having the actors tell us.

[@Diogolindir]

it feels Dune to me but maybe because for some reason it feels like Heretics of Dune to me.

[@ryanjamesbarr1465]

Big Heretics and Chapterhouse vibes with the Sisterhood trying to establish themselves with threats all around and internally

[@RB-sz9gv]

NOTHING is as shit as Rings of Garbage

[@adilsongoliveira]

I've been a fan of Dune for over 40 years I think. I did enjoy the movies, old and news ones, not so much the TV series fro few years ago and Prophecy so far has been, let's say intriguing. I think it is a different take and I've been following to see where it goes. One thing that I think was a stupid mistake though was how they said the "voice" just came out from basically nowhere. In my mind, the way the Sisterhood works, in their pursuit to perfect body and mind, playing the long game, the voice would be a tool they have been working for who knows how many years or generations. The way they did so just one person had this power at her disposal feels like lazy writing to me.

[@chasx7062]

dude, this is the start of the sisterhood, 10,000 years ago...

[@derek96720]

@@chasx7062 Dude, that makes no difference to what he said.

[@chasx7062]

@@derek96720 yes it does, this is the Origin story, the voice only is known by one person, and she hasnt taught anyone, Valya needs to find the next generation she can trust !!

[@MolotDET]

@@chasx7062 it makes no sense for the voice to come from one person. This makes it an inborn power and not a fostered technique which comes from spice use (or any other substance). It is no nothing which she can teach. It is intrinsic to only Valia. Even her sister doesn't have the ability. It now needs to be bred into the BG genome.

[@chasx7062]

@@MolotDET Valya said she wanted to teach Dorotea!! Alas

[@ryandacunha3040]

I think people keep forgetting that it's 10,000 years before Paul Atradies. Most of these worlds haven't been developed as much. Or houses haven't really achieved the wealth to develop their worlds. Also I can see budget being an issue to achieve the same look like the movies. Plus I can see the powers that be behind the show probably wanted to stand out a little from the movie.

[@PaulRidgeway-h7l]

Except it’s the same families on the same planets. Apparently nothing at all happens for the next 10,000 years.

[@kenaustinardenol1338]

I disagree on one character completely, Desmond Hart. After that ridiculous magical murdering of some nobles, though we already knew Hart had some kind of power, I felt lost. As far as I know there is never any mention of those kind of powers, that magic, in any of the Dune stories. At that moment, Dune. Prophecy became for me "unbelievable" We have still 2 episodes to go, and of course I will watch, but even if they come up with something spectaculair, the true spirit of Dune is not there anymore for me.

[@ryanjamesbarr1465]

How do we know it’s magic and not some kind of technology yet to be explained or explored?

[@kenaustinardenol1338]

@@ryanjamesbarr1465 Maybe magic is not quite the right word, but it simply did not feel it belonged in the Dune world. And they presented it as some kind of power originated through the sandworm. I simply did not believe it

[@samwow24]

This critique has some valid points, but it sounds like they just wish denis directed the show. Bearing such ultimate judgement on a show barely halfway through its first season, is to bear the burdens of false assumptions. I wonder what a David Lynch version of the show would look like.

[@Bustaperizm]

Barely half way? It's 6 eps. It's over half. 2 eps left

[@Loreweavver]

The first lines of the first episode essentially said "this is not Dune. This is our own story and we don't care about history."

[@Shamino1]

This show is visually jarring. It's schizophrenic in its visuals and messaging. We've set up a plot where the Atredies are plotting to take down House Corrino less than 100 years into their dynasty, but this is the period when House Atredies is made a Great House, so, why would they kill the Emperor that just gave them more power than they've ever had? Setting up Geidi Prime as a Whaling Center and House Atredies' planet as a generic English forest without ANY technology or futuristic aesthetic whatsoever in any Harkonnen/Atredies scenes suddenly makes the viewer feel like they are watching a budget historical fantasy show. Set designers and costume designers never figured out how to create the look for a techno-feudal society, so they just made everybody look purely feudal. A secret society of powerful women utilizing sex, intelligence, intuition, and psycho-analysis to control the fates of Great Houses and set the stage for the Dune Books is an incredible and deep place to challenge many contemporary issues of today while also remaining faithful to the issues explored by Frank Herbert. Instead, we're getting Hogwarts in Space.

[@andrewlim9345]

Dune Prophecy made the mistake of not featuring Vorian Atreides, who was one of the more interesting characters from the Dune Expanded novels. The source material Sisterhood of Dune is part of the Expanded Dune series, which doesn't align with Frank Herbert's vision of the Butlerian Jihad.

[@Tommy1977777]

My central issue is that liberties are being taken which diminshes the series. Were caught in yet again the cycle of "well, its the only one we have" choice.

[@lerronwright2007]

The Ebert reviewer's callout on young adult Dystopian distraction is 100, but she forgot to mention the annoying, unnecessary gratuitous sex scenes that seem so NOT Herbert that even me as a casual fan (and has no problem with sexual expression) found these unnecessary young adult characters that much more annoying

[@user-ADystop]

All these adaptations are just commercial products and an insult to the original books

[@digitalartist371]

Its an insult to sci-fi and writing in general.

[@nilsj1324]

I loved the Dune movies so much I went and bought the Dune books and read them all. So excited, at first, that someone wanted to treat us to a Dune series, I quickly became disheartened by the lack of world building, story lines that aren't understandable and much more that just falls so far from what Dune became for me through Denis Villenueve's films and Frank Herbert's books. It kind of broke my heart. I can't believe I had to put up with night clubs and lackluster character development. Some of the acting was pretty good but, I am not fulfilled by this series. Do another one and do it right!

[@justinklenk]

This has truly been a pathetic show so far in terms of writing and casting and production and execution. Dune is a grand, magnificent epic story and universe; it deserves the proper level of artistry/commitment of production which it absolutely did inspire. This has been just another drawn-out, serialized, HBO-soap-opera money grab. It's really a travesty.

[@DavidDuchov]

I don't dislike it, not at the level of Denis Villeneuve's movie but a good nonetheless...but even for someone who is not familiar with Dune, I doesn't feel like Dune should feel...more like a Game of Throne with a touch of Cyberpunk in the bar scenes

[@Mecca4BA]

I feel like they’ve spread the story too thin to start with…. Too many moving parts. They’re going to need a second season to tie this whole thing together. I’m not expecting it to connect directly with the new movies…. I mean, it’s 10k years before the those movies. I guess we’ll see what happens.

[@NuTTzO]

The shows pretty good. Fuck what the critics say 😂

[@HBG313]

Woke slop

[@cevapipapi8920]

its shit, amateur level writing

[@jaythekid4728]

The thing is I enjoy the show. The primary issue I see everyone face is they expect all the things from Dune in a series that takes play 10,000 before Dune. So we’re not gonna get all the magic that the universe has because we’re just not in that era of time yet. That’s a very long period of time for stuff to happen for us to wind up in the universe that Paul is born into and where we the reader are brought in.

[@jasongrundy1717]

Literally the opposite. It's exactly the same as it is 10,000 years later, same houses, same problems with freemen, same problems with spice etc. They have the voice already, they have reverend mothers already, they have face dancers already. It's like literally nothing happens in the next 10,000 years.

[@jaythekid4728]

⁠@@jasongrundy1717what we are seeing is the creation of the status quo that will be held for the next 10,000 years. House Harkonnen has not risen up yet, reverend mothers are present but the sisterhood is still weak with inner conflict, the emperor does not have Sadukar yet, house Carino’s imperial power is not yet fully cemented, prescient abilities are only with the Guild right now with the Sister Hood having dreams that they can’t see when not in a spice trance. Just because they have things already doesn’t mean they’re fully cemented just yet.

[@Hi-pl5rx]

I think the main issue i have with the show is the setting (time wise). Think a show set 500-1000 years before Og dune would be more fascinating. And just come up with new characters. But brian controls the IP and probably recommended adapting his own work. Oh well

[@Proaz15]

The bases should be there and they aren't, it has nothing to do with being 10k years before.

[@RomaInvicta1]

@@jasongrundy1717 Same houses, because these houses have ruled for millennia as established in the original books, they look completely different than they do 10,000 years later. The Harkonnens are borderline a different race. The voice develops and improves over time, the face dancers are massively improved over time compared to what we have seen. "It's like literally nothing happens in the next 10,000 years" is just a silly thing to say.

[@billelliott3507]

I think that the movies worked because they worked on this premise of “Less is more”. No time wasted, no overly long dramatic conversations. Everything is pointed and there’s no redundancy. Every scene is new and adds to the story. The show just feels like I’m watching the same thing over and over with lots of redundancy

[@gtheavyy8543]

One more thing I can't wrap my head around: where the hell is Guild? Not sure if those numbers come from Brian lore, but Guild was established 108 years after the war, i.e. war ended in 108 BG. If we punch some numbers, that would mean the Series prelude starts on 22 BG, and after the 30 year timejump we stand at 8 AG. Sooo... where are they? Guild is a brand new creation to support the great convention as the third pillar next to Emperor and Great Houses, yet they are completely ignored? And if the timelines are shifted and there's no guild, then how to they travel between the stars so casually? Travel without navigators means either sub-light speeds, or a significant risk to get splatted into a star. I appreciate how much focus we get on BG as the player behind the curtains, but so far this whole universe ignores all other players. The Guild was an absolutely major player, they weren't just steering assistants

[@michaelallen434]

In sisterhood of dune, the spacing guild wasn’t established. They were in the process of making navigators and the guild was beginning to form, but not formally established.

[@MolotDET]

Even though it should be straight forward with the opening scene after the time jump saying "10,148 years before Paul" that still leaves a little wiggle room. We know the Atreides take up their position on Arrakis in 10,191 when Paul is 14 (making Paul's birth year 10,177) but we also know he becomes emperor in 10,196. Depending on which of those points "10,148 years before Paul" implies, the events of the show should be taking place either in a) 1 BG before time jump and 29 AG after (10.148 years from Paul's Birth) or b) 18 AG before time jump and 48 AG after (10148 years before Paul ascends the throne). But, the opening also says 116 years since the Jihad ended. With the guild being formed 108 years after the war, this means its 22 BG before the time jump and 8 AG after, implying that the after time jump events actually take place either 10,169 years before Paul's birth or 10,188 years before Paul ascends the throne. And that is why none of this makes sense at all.

[@markpitt2474]

​@@michaelallen434sooooooo ......this is why this Bullshit sucks!?!?

[@Emanon...]

I'm enjoying it so far. It's a slow burn, but that's surely the point with making it a show. Plenty of great shows out there that needed the most of the first season to establish the setting and characters.

[@DrSpaceCapeTV]

The series is decent so far, but it is definitely lacking something. It feels like they didn't quite know what they were doing at the beginning of the production and we're just getting the best of what was filmed and the scraps of a story. I chalk this up to the studio rushing to capitalize on a popular IP, much like the way Disney did with Star Wars. These vast universes need to be adapted with care, I think Villeneuve did a great job adapting the first Dune book but it took two movies to do it right. TLDR: Good productions take time and rushed productions tend to fail.

[@donaldfinney7218]

I like the show and I was fully expecting to hate it. It's a decent prequel that doesn't feel goofy like the BA/KJA books.

[@jimmyandersson9938]

I might have to work more on my english, but to me the critique sounded more like just a pile of word salad rather than actual points, idk. I'm loving the show and its getting better for every episode. I agree tho the scenes when they're doing coke and clubbing, or the 5 min sex scene with multiple orgasms dont really fit in lol. " instead of giving them material that can stand together with their prowess " wtf does that even mean? " if the series were strictly about them, could become the most interesting characters " The show is strictly about them, they take up 90% of the screen time and the other 10% is basically setting up later scenes for them or building side characters that will work around them. "Desmond and Valya operate as opposing sides of the same coin, and its a shame these characters dont exist in a better show that allows them to become proper adversaries or allies " Bruuh, we are only a few hours in Season 1 and its allready obvious they're building up to this, everything cant happen in the first episode.

[@Shamino1]

" instead of giving them material that can stand together with their prowess " -> This is a polite way of saying that all the scenes with those two actresses rely on their strength as actors rather than the strength of the script. It's an absurdly weak script, and is only made serviceable / passable by the excellent acting skills of the two female protagonists. "if the series were strictly about them, could become the most interesting characters " -> The reviewer is insisting that the show should be framed in such a way that we are always witnessing the universe through the perspective of the Sisterhood. Thus, when we see Emperor Corrino, it should be when he's speaking with Sisters. When we see Desmond, it should be under the watchful eyes of Bene Gesserit spies. If the series had shown us the Harkonnen/Atredies rivalry at the start and chronologically slid into the 'present' plot, this could have easily been achievable. "Desmond and Valya operate as opposing sides of the same coin, and its a shame these characters dont exist in a better show that allows them to become proper adversaries or allies " -> We're four episodes into a 6 episode season and their only interaction came from Valya trying to use the exact same 'Voice' trick she always tries- which by Episode 3 was already making me roll my eyes, why not show her ability beyond asking everyone, including her own mother, to pick up a knife? Why is 'pick up that knife' the only voice command Valya Harkonnen knows? Because the script is terrible. Why does Desmond talk like S4 Ragnar Lodbrook and S1 Dances with Wolves? Because Travis Fimmel's been given a shoddy, flimsy script, and the show does not have enough time to breathe.

[@jimmyandersson9938]

@@Shamino1 Thanks for clearing those things up. I think only showing everything from the sisters perspective is a horrible idea, that works when you're making a movie about 5 teenagers in a haunted cabin, but not a show based on a established Universe like Starwars, LOTR or on this case Dune. In general you need some short breaks from the main characters sometimes. And most people watching are Dune fans, not Bene gesserit fans so I think having a few scenes with other places and people without the sisters is only good, any show should allways contribute to expand the universe its based on, regardless of what the main plot is about.

[@MasterPeibol]

I think that the series is still struggling to find its footing. Something btw totally normal for a new series. We will see, if they are granted more seasons.

[@Dashawn.B]

Apple TV platform definitely should take over for season 2.

[@rondickey7116]

The show misses the point of FH lessons that come from his books. The show doesn't explore how power corrupts, the idea of making humans into god figures, etc.

[@ThePhDSpanish]

My biggest problem is really with how they have produced it. There aren't enough dynamics at play in each scene, a problem that also plagued the second season of house of the dragon. Each scene is 'establishing shot with related theme playing' -> 'two characters in a room talk' -> 'crux of conversation reached with theme coming back in' -> 'next establishing shot with new theme faded in'. I want the characters to be actually doing something, mix up shot composition, mix up the settings, the lighting, the music, during the conversation. Do something to visually keep me engaged. I like many parts of the show, but especially the early episodes were putting me to sleep

[@danielfwilliams8898]

I’m enjoying the show far. It’s makes me want to go back to read the prequels books which is good thing as I haven’t picked any of the books up since I re-read the originals then the prequels back to back.

[@88pandora88]

I agree with the reviewer: watered down. Great production values. But, I am finding the central characters compelling and will view until the end. I will not be looking forward to repeat viewings as I have done with Villeneuves Dune 1 & 2.

[@salusa_secundus]

I don’t like the daughter of the current emperor. She seems too old. Hollywood is running out of younger quality actors and actresses.

[@Sticks_of_Truth]

I'm just a regular old school Dune film fan Who loves the new two films as well. The series got off to a slow start because you just can't see anyone as the lead, or someone to root for. It was still intriguing but it's faults end up being it's by the time you reach the end. Whatever trouble there was there is a true vision for the season as a whole. I started watching a few die hard Fans of the novels Around the film reboot. I haven't seen any of them speak negatively about this series. I also just heard they greenlit a season two.

[@d3mist0clesgee12]

TBH, as a Dune fan the series isn't that bad, a lot of other sites just trying to throw shade on it but it not bad, I recommend people watching it after watching the third episode. I haven't read this book in the prequels, I've read a few of them but its entertaining. I love the Benegeserit as a whole in the Dune universe, they are bad @$$ but so far pleasantly entertained so far.

[@bretweeks2997]

Every time I listen to reviews and then go watch the movie are most of the reviews are way out of touch. I honestly like the show. I wasn't expecting a dune movie like everybody else was. Is it still TV series everybody. Way better than majority of the TV series that are out. Be grateful. Reviews are some of the reasons why good movies are ruined

[@PolarBear_Gaming_More]

00:30 Prequels often struggle to succeed and sometimes even detract from the overall appeal of a franchise. This is largely because the beloved characters who captured the audience's hearts in the original story are missing. Without their presence, the emotional connection and investment that fans have built over time can feel disrupted or diminished. Instead, prequels often introduce new characters or younger versions of existing ones, which may not resonate as strongly. Additionally, prequels are constrained by the established events of the original story, which can make the narrative feel predictable or less impactful, further reducing their ability to stand on their own or enhance the franchise.

[@timm1328]

Brian Herberts books do count since this series is a sequel his Sisterhood of Dune and has characters he created.

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

Agreed 💯 There is so much that happened in those books that is skipped over in the flashback scenes that clearly explains who these characters are and why they’re doing the things they’re doing that is confusing so many viewers because they haven’t read the books and are relying on a poorly conceived adaption to be a substitute to reading.

[@PolarBear_Gaming_More]

This series is failing for the same reason so many series like the prequels or Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings. Amazons political views and rules of production via their Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) which isn't what people want to see. Still better than Ghostbusters 2016, but not by much.

[@krymz1]

I hate this trend in hollywood of jumping around every 5-10 minutes between different characters and side stories. I wish they concentrated on one story per show, and maybe leave the last 15-10 minutes to how it relates to the next episode that will be about one of the other stories. It's not like they would need to reshoot everything, maybe just a couple more transition scenes here and there, if anything, they just need to do the editing differently.

[@mmeade9402]

Its not perfect, but Im enjoying it. And thats really all that matters I suppose. If the fanbase hates on it too much and become mindless haters because it isnt a 1 for 1 recreation of the books, then they'll stop making more of it. Sometimes there are creative differences(the nightclub stuff,) sometimes they just cant come up with the budget necessary to bring to life a crazy sci-fi idea and make it look not completely cheesy on a tv series, so it gets scrapped. etc etc Critique, let them know "hey, this part could be a bit better" but if we hammer it too much, we'll be back to being stuck with infinity cooking shows, dancing with minor celebrity shows, vacuously mind numbing dating shows ad infinitum. I'll take this everyday of the week, and twice on Sunday, in comparison.

[@tracyjarmin2977]

To me the films were a case of death by a thousands cuts, so many changes that look small and meaningless but when added together change the story to the point were dune 3 will not resemble any of the books, this series is proof that part 3 will descend into YA level writing and CW level drama and drift further from the books. prepare for Paul to be a deadbeat dad that abandoned his pregnant girlfriend to marry into the royal family.

[@MolotDET]

I have to agree. The changes made in the films has altered the basic culture of the Fremen in general and the particulars of Paul and Chani's relationship so completely it is unrecognizable from the source material. The plot of Messiah will be so altered it will have to pieced back together with off screen retcons to turn it into something which in the end will be unlikely to reflect the original source material.

[@wonderduff]

Let's have a video titled "something Nerd Cookies LIKES about the show."

[@NerdCookies]

How about my multiple Desmond Hart theory videos? Or any of the other videos I've made about the positive aspects of the show...

[@Shamino1]

This channel's done nothing but throw praise on the show. What the hell are you on about?

[@denniskristos3800]

I remember when "Dune: The Sisterhood", was initially announced in 2919. It was to be a 10 episode limited series with Denis Villeneuve directing the pilot and Jon Spaihts as scriptwriter with Dana Calvo, to be its co-showrunners. Because of its late start and Eric Roth's unavailability (he'd co-written "Dune: Part One) and was busy writing the script for Martin Scorcese's "Killers Of The Flower Moon", Spaights had to exit Sisterhood in late 2019 to co-write "Dune: Part Two" alongside Villeneuve... Sometime afterwards, complaints arose about not enough female creatives were involved in the spin-off. Calvo and Diane Ademu-John (Spaihts replacement as showrunner ) took the reins and Johan Renck was hired in April 2022 to direct the first two episodes. The pilot was shot, the pilot was screened in early 2023 for Legendary's and HBOmax execs and that's when the production problems began. Ademu-John quit her showrunning duties, but remained as an executive producer.... The execs took issue with the look of the show citing the production design didn't visually connect with Patrice Vermette and Villeneuve's Duniverse vision in "Dune: Part One" even though the series was set 10,000 plus years before the birth of Paul Atriedes. They ordered an indefinite hiatus while the sets, props, costumes, vfx concepts et al were retooled and within two weeks, Renck exited and two of the show's lead actresses (Shirley Henderson -Tula and Indira Varma - Empress Natalya) followed suit to avoid scheduling conflicts which would inevitably arise for other jobs they were contractually obligated to. Alison Schapker was made sole showrunner and alongside exec producer, Jordan Goldberg, oversaw the show's revamped, re-imagined look. Before production resumed sometime in summer 2023 through December, the series was cut back during the 2022 to mid 2023 production halt. It was now a count of 6 episodes from its original 10 (likely, another victim of WB-D CEO David Zaslav's mandate, to slash budgets across all existing film and TV projects, excepting those of DC).

[@forgottenlectures]

the show almost lost me within the first minute... i m tired of the harkonnen vs atreides repetition... the only thing keeping me hooked is desmond hart. ep 3 was the worst so far as it wasted way too much time setting up some inconsequential backstory... we already know harkonnen hat the atreides and vice versa... the series feels like 2 or 3 writer teams wrote their own story and someone mixed them somehow together to get it done and move on.... also i don t see how this series works for non dune fans or people who are in the lore

[@michaelmiller3012]

I have found myself pleasantly surprised by the show. I am enjoying it. The ONE THING I have a major nitpick about is the portrayal of The Voice. I can accept that Valya Harkonnen discovers how to use The Voice. I can accept that it surprises the other sisters. What I CANNOT ACCEPT is that Frank Herbert went through great pains when describing The Voice that he made it very clear that The Voice can't forced anyone to do something they absolutely would not. In that vein, Valya using The Voice to have people knife themselves in the throat was immersion breaking. There is a reason Jessica had to manipulate the Harkonnen guards to fight each other so she and Paul could escape the Ornithopter on the way into the Deep Desert.

[@Dan__S]

I stopped watching this show. The Herbert Jr novels really were not very good. The characters in this series are not likeable. The plot is boring. The world building is meh.

[@ilikegamesandtech6712]

i was concerned when it opened with some material that tried to make the butlerian jihad look like skynet

[@JPayne95]

Its doing a decent job of world building that the 2 movies couldnt due to time constraints, of course there are still things missing but its alot better than other things out right now

[@pierrepaul591]

So what is DUNE? Will anyone be satisfied with something new or just want to be restricted with what YALL thinks a series should be?

[@Yarblocosifilitico]

Dune is either a faithful adaptation of Frank's work (like Villeneuve's films, which the vast majority of fans enjoyed), or something that matches the subtletly, wheels within wheels aspects of his work. There's no subtlety on Prophecy, eveything is spelled out.

[@Proaz15]

@@Yarblocosifilitico I would put the SyFy version over Villanueve even if it has better special effects.

[@chrissidoku4779]

Anything based on Frank Herberts books has potential to be DUNE. Anything based on Brian Herbert's books has potential to be Harry Potter.

[@gwill153]

I'm enjoying the show. Not a Dune fan prior to the first movie and haven't read the books. The show is basically GOT in space, w/a dose of Dune lore, and I'm here for it 😎