New Moog Minimoog Model D vs Voyager: Oscillators

An in-depth look at 2 of the most revered synths ever made:
The new Moog Minimoog Model D and Voyager.
This is part 1 of 4

[@ME-ru4hv]

that was the nicest thing moog could have done, recreating the mini and doing it so well with integrity to the original and very welcomed mods. I had given up on having one.. now its in the next room.

[@GNeuman]

The raw power of the oscillators on the model d never cease to amaze me....

[@nostandingonlydancin]

It never ceases to amaze me the that the best sounding synths are still, mostly, the OGs. The price of progress.

[@marcelmaes5275]

Why am I looking at this? I'm happy with my 3k Voyager and I will not spend another 5k for a model D. Anyway, I'm glad to see that a friendly synth-geek like you made the effort to post this. Thank you!

[@derivativ3]

Both the moog D and voyager have very similar oscillators but the D sounds brighter because for some reason the voyager’s default manufacturing doesn’t let it open its filter all the way, which can be bypassed to full with a max envelope amount

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah, opening the env amount adds a fraction more cutoff but still didn’t bring it anywhere near the Minimoog. It’s the equivalent of having the Minimoogs cutoff set at around just past 3 o’clock.. but it can continue to five.

[@DarrenGlen]

great video...many thanks!

[@DarrenGlen]

Starsky I am so sorry ! that comment was meant for another video comparing Arps!! and by someone else. Ive watched several of your vids including your Sub37 one and they are really awesome...you do exactly what I would do if I was trying to compare them, get the levels right by tweaking them constantly and a lot of work went into them I know. Thanks again and keep up the good work!

[@StarskyCarr]

Hahaha... That's hilarious I don't know what's funnier - me getting so annoyed or you sending it to the wrong video!! Cheers.. ;)

[@ChimeraGilbert]

You’ve got a dark sounding voyager. Maybe it’s the KZbin audio compression but using this video my voyager sounds somewhere between yours and the model D

[@PaulDither]

Nice comparison! Btw, you can also change the note priority on the Minimoog.

[@StarskyCarr]

Paul Dither thanks, good to know I don't have to refine my sloppy playing. Last note priority it is then...

[@station2station544]

First thing I did. D minor chord power up i believe...

[@jamesgibbs572]

Thank you for this comparison Starsky. I have a Voyager XL and Sub 37. I love the bright buzziness of the Model D! I think the Voyager still has its place and maybe they compliment one another? Would you sell your Voyager now you have both? I'm thinking of trading Sub 37 for Subsequent 37, but thinking of putting difference towards Model D

[@StarskyCarr]

No I'm keeping hold of it - the modulation options are great and its very useful having match memory and the editor/librarian.

[@MickaLuna]

How do they compare, Sub 37 and Voyager, in terms of big far warm bass lines?

[@ksqmusic]

Great videos Starsky, thank you. On the Voyager- I notice the "Amount to filter" knob is set to 12 o'clock. Doesn't this inhibit the maximum amount the filter can open on the voyager? I do not yet own a Moog (hence me watching these videos)- but I thought that knob can act as a slight LFP. I may be wrong.

[@StarskyCarr]

KSQ thanks and good question. The amount knob goes from -5 to +5 so at 12 o'clock it's theoretically 0 i.e. It has no effect on the filter. As you know, +ve values should increase the filter response with the envelope curve and -ve values reduce it. The Voyager, however, has a weird architecture in that at +ve values if the sustain is fully open, the env amount increases the filter even if it's already set on its maximum frequency. This is only by a fraction but it's there. I should have increased the env amount to full to get the highest frequencies from the filter - although as I say it's only a fraction. I do this on my Voyager vs sub 37 video to show the difference. It's still way below the Model D and way above the Sub 37. The Sub 37 does as you'd expect i.e. no effect on the filter at 12 o'clock, and the Model D only has +ve values. Increasing this doesn't affect it either if the filter is fully open. I don't know any other synth that acts like the Voyager in this respect. I wouldn't describe it as acting like a LPF as it's so minimal, but it is definitely there.

[@ksqmusic]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. Those are some crucial differences you outlined, that will help anyone deciding among the 3. Huge help think you.

[@user-iy4ih7dj4n]

You should visit Rudi Linhard and make a special episode about him, the Voyager, his colab with Bob, his LAMM and all that. Such a great guy.

[@MythixMusic1]

Great video!! Showed me that there is room for a Model D beside my Voyager..... Or should I save my pennys and aim for a System 55? Decisions, decisions

[@Rhythmicons]

Moslab and/or Synth-Werk will be just as good.

[@MythixMusic1]

Rhythmicons naaah, it never is. 90% sure, but it's that last 10% that counts

[@Rhythmicons]

I think higher than 90% but that gets really difficult to quantify. I'm waiting on Synth-Werk's inductor based 914 to leave Germany. Mos-lab is as close as you can get to a Moog for a fraction of the price. The Moslab 921s sound virtually identical to the Model D. I don't have the luxury of a side-by-side comparison but to be honest at that point more than 90% of people probably can't tell the difference.

[@MythixMusic1]

Rhythmicons yep, what you say is true.

[@theatrobert]

synesthesia

[@MickaLuna]

That makes two of us :(

[@Hofik66]

Hello, thanks for this comparison, very interesting and valuable. I have this year at home the same set: Minimoog Model D 2016 and Voyager Blue Edition. I wonder what to buy reverb and delay, to preserve the nature of these instruments. You can recommend something on this issue? So far I'm using TC Hall of Fame, MF Delay and Reverb EHX Cathedral (the pedal is wrong with these instruments). I'm thinking of BigSky or Eventide Space, Boss RE-20, El Capistan. Do you have any idea? I will be grateful.

[@StarskyCarr]

thanks for your comments. I have the MF104M and an Eventide Eclipse. I don't get as much use from the MF as I expected I would, and use the Timefactor delays in the Eclipse more often than not when recording. If you hook it up to a MIDI controller it opens up a whole world of experimentation. I like the look of both the Strymon units. The Space plugin is excellent and huge effects and turning an average sound into something weird and wonderful... The FX in the clips are great, and add a new dimension to sounds. I've a Sub37 demo using the Eclipse for rhythmic ambient stuff that might be of interest here : kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZXQcmWObdirbtk

[@Hofik66]

Thank you for your answer, check your suggestions. I also have 37 Sub :)

[@galactagog]

great video! thanks! do you think the reason the D sounds different is the 30K range on the filter vs 12K on the voyager?

[@Rhythmicons]

There are many things which makes the Model D superior in tone to the Voyager. The keyboard contacts, the way the envelopes react to the VCA. The overdriven filter are just a few.

[@thedarkestrainbow]

galactagog but remember the new model d has the same keyboard as the voyager.

[@Rhythmicons]

Thanks for pointing this out about the keyboard. I was referring more to the original Model D obviously. The Pratt-Read keys are a dream compared to the Fatar. The Voyager's filter can be opened up MORE than the maximum pot range, but the oscillators by themselves simply aren't as raspy. If the filters were equal, it still wouldn't sound the same. The Taurus III is closer to the Model D than the Voyager is on a 1:1 osc comparison. However, the D, a Micro with the bass modification, the Voyager and the T3 all hold their own against each other, the Model D simply beating them out. Those bright and raspy oscillators are unbeatable.

[@Rhythmicons]

To be honest, this is the first place I've read the Voyager's filter was of that kind of limited range. I didn't see its frequency response in the manual.

[@galactagog]

well, it is labelled right on the front panel circling the filter knob, counterclockwise: 20 - 60 - 250- 1K - 4K - 12k has anyone ever tried putting D oscillators in a Voyager?

[@ericroberts9259]

Would have been good to show how the Voyager can be brightened by changing the filter slope. Good vid tho; thanks.

[@StarskyCarr]

Eric Roberts thanks for the comment. A couple of folks have mentioned this re the Sub37. I didn't do it as wanted to show comparisons between the typical 24dB filters. Changing the slope will change the character for e.g. Filter sweeps, but you're right .. for many sounds where the filter remains open it's not so much of an issue and the synths can be brighter... I feel another video coming on :) ....

[@AlainHubert]

I had a Voyager Old School before finally getting my hands on a 1975 Minimoog D. And when I put them side by side, I immediately sold the Voyager. And I think the new polyphonic Moog One also sounds like a Voyager and not a Minimoog D, unfortunately. I think today's electronics engineers are deaf and can't hear anything past 12 KHz anymore. Much like when Bob Moog designed the Voyager in the early 2000s. lol ! @9:03 I don't think that was the synths making that faint farting sound though... hahaha!

[@Variable1000]

Yeah nothing compares to the original the re issue and the voyager have that same plastic sound. Not bad but definitely not a model d or anywhere close. It s missing the warmth x100000000000

[@jeremyyang7207]

Great video. However I have a Voyager, and it's much brighter than yours appears to be when playing a single sawtooth wave... Filter set to 4 pole also...And no filter envelope applied...

[@redirishmanxlt]

You can make the Voyager a bit brighter by turning the EG all the way up and turn the Decay and Sustain on the filter envelopes all the way up.

[@StarskyCarr]

Cheers, I forgot to mention that. It does make a difference, but only minor - a bit like opening the Mini's filter from 2.5 to 3 (or from 12 minutes past the hour to 15 minutes).

[@redirishmanxlt]

+Starsky Carr - Wow, I wonder what makes the Model D so much brighter? In most soft synths or digital hardware synths, they roll off the highest frequencies because of aliasing which is one of reasons analogs sound much brighter. Up until Serum came out, none of the soft synths I've had were brighter than my Moog Slim Phatty.

[@AdamTheAd-vanc3d]

@@redirishmanxlt . Could be because the digital side of voyager causes unwanted high frequency noise interfering with the audio path. So it is possible the VCA in the voyager has a capacitor in the op amp feedback loop to dampen this out. The same is possible on the Sub 37 and little phatty.

[@redirishmanxlt]

@@AdamTheAd-vanc3d I don't have any experience in electronics, so what does a capacitor do?

[@AdamTheAd-vanc3d]

@@redirishmanxlt . Bascially a capacitor in the output circuitry of a vca can be used to filter out certain frequencies especially if hiss or digital zippering noise is an issue even vco noise bleedthrough. The trade off is a slightly duller overall tone. Which in a wag makes some synths sound beefer in the bottom end as the highs frequencies say 20k+ are not so defined/permantly rolled off wvwn with a fully open vcf cut off. Hope this made some sort of sense.

[@horowizard]

I don't believe the Voyager's Filters have Series / Parallel configurability, although such a feature would be nice. Rather it has the option for either Dual Lowpass or Highpass / Lowpass modes and each one has its own designated output in Stereo. The Third Oscillator on the Model D did not have the "Shark's Tooth' wave but had a Ramp or Inverted Sawtooth shaped wave for modulations in the other direction. On the XL you have that with the Second LFO. The Model D had provisions to modulate the Oscillators and Filter either individually or simultaneously through the Modulation Wheel. As flexible and varied as the Voyager's Modulation Busses are I don't think it can actually do that like the Model D did. I haven't explored it yet but it might be accomplished through patching, certainly with an XL model. I have heard there is something called a Slew Rate Modification that can be done to Voyagers that seem to allow the filter to open more and give the instrument that bristling exuberant tone the Model Ds are known for.

[@keybeardist]

The lowpass/highpass is in series - forming a bandpass filter with adjustable width ("separation"). The lowpass/lowpass mode is in parallel as a stereo pair.

[@Wizardofgosz]

The hard noise gate is killing me.

[@StarskyCarr]

Richard Wielgosz it's deliberate so you can hear the waveforms, not the key presses. I realise it's not ideal but I think for the purposes of the demo it's the better of 2 evils. I actually have to go through the voiceover files and delete the key presses by hand. Reducing their volume or fading in/out would simply take far too long, an auto gate can't cope. If I was being paid for these I'd have the time to do a more pro job, but hope you find it useful anyway.

[@r0m2007]

The demo exactly shows the opposite: they are quite different soundwise...

[@Minnaarsarelovers]

Is there actually that vast a difference between a Voyager and a Sub 37? Have always coveted a Voyager and have a Sub 37... listening here, I suspect the Sub and Voyager are closer than the Voyager and the Model D?

[@StarskyCarr]

Gav Thorpe is say the voyager has more in common with the mini. The S37 is great for rhythmic modulation with the 2 LFOs plus the sequencer. I twiddle with that loads more than the voyager. But for 3 osc sounds the voyager blows it away. The sub osc on the 37 is useful, but not a replacement for a multi waveform tuneable full osc. Fine tuning the 3rd osc for a bit of movement and depth is only possible on the voyager. Different beasts...

[@Minnaarsarelovers]

Starsky Carr dammit! Nice collection you have. Sub 37, Prophet 6 and an Oberheim Matrix 1000 here... the disease is spreading

[@StarskyCarr]

Gav Thorpe ... and it's terminal

[@sixxdb]

I've got a Voyager and a Sub Phatty (same voicing architecture as the 37). I find the raw Voyager osc has more depth, so tend to use Sub for leads and Voyager on bass. Sub Phatty/37 gets pure dirty though - the post filter/pre vca overdrive takes it into different territory.

[@Tibbon]

I'd say they are quite different. I've got a Voyager, and kinda wanna get a Sub37 too. The Sub37 seems much more aggressive (the overdrive on the filter), and I like the duophonic mode and arpeggiator. It's still roughly a 'Moog sound' either way, but definitely different flavors.

[@MadelnMachines]

That's quite an interesting / disappointing spec on the voyager filter. The Sub 37 can supposedly do 20Hz-20kHz

[@Tibbon]

I wonder if I can just patch a +5V offset into it to push it up more. Will try later. I've had a Voyager for 10+ years, and it's never bothered me.

[@StarskyCarr]

Never bothered me either. I didn't realise until making this video. Oddly enough I noticed it immediately on the S37, which is brighter than the Voyager. Maybe I was using something brighter before I unwrapped the S37? It still doesn't take away from either of them.... still doesn't bother me. The offset would be interesting to try. Let me know how it goes. Cheers.

[@SPAZZOID100]

The Creamware MINIMAX ASB is closer to the model D than the voyager is.

[@Shred_The_Weapon]

Half of Dr. Robert's family pronounced M-o-o-g the German way, and half of his family pronounced it the Anglo way.

[@StarskyCarr]

Good to know we're not 100% in the wrong but 50% correct ;)

[@automaticgainsay]

Yes, but Bob's family pronounced it the way he pronounced it (rhymes with "rogue"), his company was pronounced that way, the company that came from his company was pronounced that way, the instruments named by that company were pronounced that way, and even when Big Briar became Moog Music in the 2000s, it was pronounced that way. Interestingly enough, it was pronounced correctly by people in the U.K. to begin with, because at the time of Bob's work being introduced there, there was a lot of talk, and a lot of articles that instructed in regard to the pronunciation. Many people in the United States, over the years after Moog Music sunk in the 80s, lost touch with the pronunciation and pronounced it phonetically (including me). But once the Internet got going, Americans, to a degree, returned to the proper pronunciation... whereas people in the UK did not.

[@StarskyCarr]

Who's to say what the proper pronunciation is... well his family obviously :) Try saying aluminium or squirrel the way us English folk do and you might feel our pain (there are 'i's in there that are considered silent by our transatlantic cousins). After years of saying Moooog ... Mogue doesn't slip off the tongue too easily although those of us cultured enough to know do try... Pronouncing Mogue in conversation over here can sound somewhat pretentious. A bit like pronouncing croissant in a French accent, it's all a bit Dr Frasier Crane; pompous and show-offy.. "actually I think you'll find it's Mogue not Moog". There's just no educating the Philistines.

[@automaticgainsay]

Well, the issue is that the man pronounced his name a certain way, and he named his company that way. It's really not up for debate. That is literally how it's pronounced, no matter how it looks, or how anyone chooses to pronounce it, or how much time has passed. I first saw the name when I was about 9, and of course, I pronounced it the way that many of us want to. I did that for the next 20 years or so... and then I found out that I had pronounced it wrong all of my life. Instead of trying to justify my inaccuracy by pointing out what it looks like phonetically, or by defending 20 years of ignorance, I simply changed the way I pronounced it. Because I was wrong. It's really not much different than if I showed up in the U.K. and decided how Leicester or Birmingham should be pronounced. I mean, gosh... look how they're spelled, and I've been pronouncing them wrong all of my life! ;) Believe me... and I know from experience... the wonderful people of the U.K. will not hesitate to tell you when you're pronouncing something incorrectly, and no amount of excuses will change anything! As for "Mogue" in conversation... I've been to the U.K. MANY many times. I even lived there for a couple of months! I never ran into anyone thinking me pretentious for telling them how it was pronounced... probably because it's been my job to know. I've even given a presentation there where the name was used. I also am a guest on Sonic State quite frequently. It's not about pretense, it's about accuracy. We don't get to decide how iconic people SHOULD have pronounced their names. :) For some reason, this issue really bothers some people from the UK. I've even lost friends over it. It is really stupid.

[@StarskyCarr]

Losing friends over a pronunciation.. that's just a madness ... people are strange.

[@MadelnMachines]

I really don't know why the voyager is £1000 more than it used to be. Moog are such rip off merchants. And the Minimoog - 3.5k for a mono synth? Serious? I really hope Behringer clones nail it. I've been looking into AJH synth modular clones

[@synthesizerhome2041]

the Dollar got stronger and the Pound got weaker. This happened the last 6 months. So you got to pay more Pounds. I guess you guys wanted Brexit... it's not Moog you have to blame

[@MadelnMachines]

Synthesizer Home The prices were like that was before all that happened. It's just an excuse

[@synthesizerhome2041]

no, it has to do with significantly changing currency rates in the last 6 months, I'm sure of that. Look at the changes of Dollar and Pound in the last 6 months and you will see. The American manufacturers will not lower their prices in USD because the Pound got weaker and Dollar stronger. Finally you have to pay more for the same thing.

[@MadelnMachines]

Synthesizer Home I'm well aware of how currency markets work. the price of the sub 37 and sub phatty have barely changed if at all. Even the US prices are horrendous for a voyager or model D. I know they are bigger companies and have economies of scale but look at the price of the new full size ARP which is still expensive for a mono and 2/3 of the D price. Look at the MS20 price. Look at the Oberheim SEM price. Even DSI 6 voice prophets and oberheims are less. Prices of all these synths have also remained similar despite exchange rate fluctuations too.

[@jimkost2002]

Made In Machines You obviously know nothing of the design of either the Voyager or Model D. The D is through hole rather than PCB which is way cheaper. Moog is essentially a boutique company using the best parts and components rather than assembly line cookie cutter like Uli’s company of low quality knockoffs! Yeah, you don’t know! So keep your ignorance to yourself!