Next-Gen Xbox Specs Leak Reaction

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[@manuelbarreto7032]

I think we completelly missed the point somewhere on the past generations. The point of gaming is to have FUN, with artistically compelling and FUN games, FINISHED GAMES. This Ray-tracing-Teraflops-tensor-cores-frame-generation-cloud BS race it's an excuse to not work on great software. Do you know why has leaked that Microsft wants to adquire Nintendo?, because they are the last traditional company that still makes good games that never dissapoint.

[@louism2970]

I agree but keep in mind this channel is focused on tech in the first place 😅

[@narata1541]

@manuelbarreto7032 I agree. The problem is the people who bought a PS5 or an Xbox Series system. People are telling these companies that they only want more power, so instead of playing the amazing games on last gen, they agreed to play the nonfinished games of this gen.

[@tigrisrgn4062]

you are right on everything, except "nintendo games never dissapoint" dude are you a kid wake up, nintendo is awesome but not flawless LOL

[@gtylerbrown2]

What if playing games with high framerates, resolution, and graphic quality is fun?

[@terkiestorlorikin5958]

Digitalfoundry: Microsoft, we want groundbreaking hardware. - Microsoft: Guys, this is a $500 machine, it ain't gonna happen.

[@Melsharpe95]

When this console gets released the RTX 4090 will be SIX years old.

[@NextNate03]

Microsoft have the plenty of money to sell their hardware at a massive loss. They have done it before with the original Xbox. 360 was also sold at a loss plus they lost billions on the RROD.

[@terkiestorlorikin5958]

@@NextNate03 Even though they can sell for a loss it's very unlikely that they will do, specially nowadays where companies want maximize profit today and not think in the long term.

[@xOwlStriKex]

Software is the better loss than hardware. Velocity Architecture better come through.

[@itsjusterthought7941]

Digital Foundry: Microsoft, we want ground breaking console hardware. Microsoft: You will have ground breaking server blades that deliver the content via streaming to a client.

[@joshuaDstarks]

They haven’t even shown us the power of the flops we got now….

[@mkb144p6]

What are you talking about, they have it was a flop wasn't it.

[@markwheeler4245]

Ur absolutely right! Remember one X "monster"! Then Series X "eats monsters for breakfast"! Yet I haven't seen anything that makes me say "wow that couldn't of been done before", perhaps we will never see the HUGE generational leaps we used to see in consoles again?

[@akr12877]

We're just getting literal flops.

[@RocketRenton]

The 2 extra between the PS5 and Series X is never used, as most 3rd party games are made for the PS5 as it's way ahead of Xbox in terms of sales, unless the game is a 1st party Xbox exclusive. Most games are 1080p upscalled to 4k on both platforms, with FF16 using some FSR 1.0 in some scenes which the game goes down to as low as 720p. I am hearing that a PS5 Pro is due next year and will have the same power as a 3090 4 years on.

[@pyxel64]

This generation is not even done yet, and those next gen consoles are aimed for 2028+

[@guardianali]

You have to remember that this slide is probably super old too. Things have changed alot. With Nvidia concentration on Ai, and AMD catch up on Ray tracing performance with the next GPUs, as well as I would assume FSR 3.5 or 4.0, even though they are usually a little behind on new features, they eventually get there. With the mind share that backward compatibility offers, and the mess that the ring of death caused, etc... they arent going to risk rocking the boat with going to Nvidia. They will stick to the new gen of AMD APUS this gen too, which actually seem to be very very impressive.

[@jet613]

Going half cloud is going to suck for countries/ locations with little to no internet access. Obviously thats not their target audience but itll affect them anyway. My internet sucks and i have had terrible experiences with cloud gaming.

[@joshuaDstarks]

We don’t even have the infrastructure here in the States for cloud-based gaming. It’s just not in the cards.

[@lxXSuddenDeathXxl]

I live in LA & cloud gaming is horrendous. I wouldn’t replace it for physical whatsoever until proven.

[@chillnspace777]

For real, I have tried all kinds of cloud based streaming for games on pc and console and has been unplayable. Lag to no end and a horrible experience. I want to play some ps3 games on ps5, but I can't

[@pyxel64]

That's no longer a constraint for most people. Also, Remember console gaming is not substantial for living, which means if your circumstances doesn't even allow for decent Ethernet connection, the last thing you should mind about is gaming...

[@pyxel64]

​@@lxXSuddenDeathXxlBecause it's not even supported in those regions yet. Give it time and LA population should get an enjoyable experience.

[@blondbassist]

The mention of Arm64 strikes me as appeasing stakeholders. SH'S usually want to see different options being evaluated (Even if there is only one viable choice). Going ARM makes no sense in a 200W power envelope.

[@chungus1149]

This. It's just there so they can say "we've evaluated other options and found staying with x86 to be the best option."

[@bulletpunch9317]

They can use the saved power on the gpu

[@multiplefutures8206]

Two different consoles where th ARM version is more cloud centric

[@ZeitGeist_TV]

I would assume it's for the streaming console or a streaming only device which wouldn't make sense using an AMD APU if you're only going to stream and not run anything natively.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

ARM is more power efficient than x86.

[@aethervvav1658]

I would assume if this hybrid computing solution for future games is Microsoft’s plan than running arm of n the cloud would be less expensive power wise. If your running arm for the cloud side of computing there are probably advantages to running arm on the console.

[@vstormvbringer76]

If you've tried the nvidia cloud it is impressive. A lot of people are on the go they game on handheld now.

[@BlackwaterEl1te]

I hope they just mean shared account progression between all your microsoft gaming platforms with hybrid computing. Microsoft does have the resource to create a custom arm silicon team. As some sort of shared resources between consumer and cloud silicon.

[@lammyjammer6670]

My takeaway is a lot of these strategies will be integrated into the next DirectX API version and become the standard across the board. It's not hard to imagine AMD becoming competitive under those circumstances. Who better than Microsoft to leak what's going to go into it? Microsoft may not be in the GPU business but their DirectX has been driving gaming graphical innovation for a while now. I think people tend to forget about that.😂

[@Rhythmattica]

And there it is.. Once called a Direct 3D, MS Purchased it...Lets hope Vulcan and Metal developers start writing games for... But they wont.. will they...

[@EarthB00]

@@Rhythmattica The one AAA studio that uses Vulkan like a king is id software. Guess who owns them now.

[@Rhythmattica]

@@EarthB00 Hangon.. Not MS, surely... I thought it was and stills the Khronos group? One things for sure though , Bethesda was going to get on board with Vulkan.... We sure know that aint happening now... Every other developer outside of MS tenticles should drop DX altogether...

[@billygrant9147]

They better hope internet access is everywhere and data caps are illegal.

[@glenmcl]

Optional extra

[@chrisbampton5225]

I don’t like the idea of having the game partially in the cloud, I rather have it be all done on console or not have it at all.

[@Melsharpe95]

"Cloud Servers are not available. Please try again later." It's like people have forgotten about Error 37.

[@PerfectCode]

Could tell that dude's thoughts on "the cloud" were going to be bad when he called it "the Stadia". lol

[@guardianali]

I think people are misunderstanding the cloud aspect. The intention here isnt making it so a game wont work if there isnt cloud. Its that the cloud will ADD on to the game. You can still play the games locally. But maybe having it connected to the cloud, it can stream better quality textures than the locally loaded ones. But it still works locally fine. Maybe the cloud gives more immersive NPC dialogue. But if not, it gives the usual stuff we are all use to. But still works locally. Etc... The local version will still work as is fine and still look and sound great. But the cloud will just be a little extra icing on the cake.

[@turrican4d599]

If the better textures load as awful as they do in FS2020, I'm not interested.

[@EmblemParade]

An added-value cloud game would have to use resources that aren't available at home: access to many terrabytes of world data and mass amounts of NPCs and enemy AI running on hundreds of CPU cores. We just haven't seen game design catch up with that potential... yet. If it's a game that you could potentially run at home, but it's just streaming the graphics to you, the trade-offs currently make it underwhelming. You might get access to a GPU you can't afford at home (especially true of you're streaming to a handheld or a smart TV) but that's not a big access niche, and it doesn't transform gaming.

[@michaelandrews4783]

every xbox release has rediculous "cloud gaming" claims which never materialize think about it if it was implemented you could only play the game while it had servers active.

[@noahflare6825]

All of these discussions are a very first-world take on the console wars. The reason consoles use AMD tech in the first place is because of price/perf ratio. With AI and ML gaining even more prominence, it does not make sense for nVidia to allocate wafers to consoles where margins are low, when they can allocate them to higher margin AI chips where they can charge exorbitant amounts. MS and Sony are not making much money on console hardware, and going the nVidia route could mean a substantial price hike or loss per console sold. Sony already has the market and mind share advantage, if Microsoft comes out with a more expensive machine (with nVidia) than what Sony is going to offer, you can bet where the tide will go. MS already put out a more capable machine than Sony at the same price this gen and look where it got them. Unless both Sony and MS go with nVidia and RAISE console prices. By then people will just game on the PC, I guess.

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

Yeah. AMD make the console chips because a) they make the lower bid and b) nVidia has thoroughly burned their bridges with both Sony and Microsoft, Sony and Microsoft can never trust nVidia again. There won't ever be an nVidia chip in either of the consoles for a really long time.

[@JoseSilva-wv2sh]

What? Sony has been profitable on consoles for a while at least a year, Xbox is the one still loosing 200 plus for series x and like 100 plus for series s, sony sell tons more making them more profitable much sooner.

[@guardianali]

@@JoseSilva-wv2sh the point is even when they get to a break even or profitable point, they always start out at a loss so that TINY profit they eventually make just covers (maybe) the loss of the first 3-4 years. So in the end when all is said and done, there is no money made between the early losses and the late profit that is small wiping each other out. Nvidia also charges premiums. Meaning that console prices would go up if anyone chooses them over AMD, making it even LONGER to break even and then make a profit on hardware.

[@EarthB00]

I think it is very difficult for DF to see anything in graphics which is not the current Nvidia thing. Very disappointed, this analysis is amateurish.

[@bub74sc28]

Here’s the reality most people will still play on consoles because it’s the most easiest and convenient way to play games Sony and Microsoft doesn’t have to march to the beat of Nvida drum

[@specialfred453]

Phone processors are passively cooled and have to be balanced for battery life. That's not a fair comparison to a current-gen console processor that has dedicated power and active cooling and can be tuned for performance rather than power savings

[@blabloe1497]

With a lack of good new games... all these upgrades mean nothing... With every new console generation, the specs get less important. There are still crossgen games being launched... Game originality and quality is more important to me.

[@luckyrockmore2796]

It's almost as if the developers don't know what to do with the extra processing power

[@aldenhayes914]

I'm not a super hardware genius but I'm pretty sure that they're going with ARM to go towards hybrid with mobile which is the biggest market in gaming. It seems like you're still leaning towards PC hardware, and this is the big radical thing that is going to give that edge over Sony. I'm surprised, I thought you guys would have seen this.

[@michaelandrews4783]

dont forget Microsft has an Arm version of windows that has had alot of work done on it over the last couple of years

[@flink1231]

If the game had cloud ai you would be charged monthly to play, probably on top of monthly fee for online play. Also, the server is offline, the game is gone. So I feel that is not great... also remember much smaller models can run locally and produce fine dialog and they are only improving. So no cloud for me.

[@kessilrun6754]

Yeah I’m out with the cloud stuff. I’m good with keeping game saves syncing between my PC and the cloud but that’s it. That was something I haven’t gotten out of my head, since MS pushed the concept at one of those early CES shows(?). They tried to hype us on the days Windows installs were a thing of the past, and we’d be paying a subscription, to sign into a small streaming box, to access our desktops and that this would be the platform to merge Windows and Xbox. This was being said around the early 360 release era. Windows Live was to lead that initiative...blending Xbox and Windows and then taking them to the cloud. Thankfully? It flopped. Minor setback. It probably only failed because of Microsoft not having complete control of its own platform and having Steam as the main go to for PC gaming…and that’s probably why we are hearing that MS wants Valve now, so they can kill it all off and merge it into Windows Xbox App…or the other way around, to make it more inviting. I made my mind, then and there, that when that becomes the future? I’m getting into Linux gaming and/ or retro gaming. It’s why I haven’t even so much as invested or even tried Gamepass. Because once they announced that? I knew their streaming future was just behind it, which means PC mods are dead because try to mod a Gamepass game... It’s more hacking than it is modding. You can’t even add Gamepass/ Xbox Apps games to Radeon’s own graphic profiles because Radeon isn’t using the “Windows Store App” format, which probably means a security breach could jailbreak Windows Store Apps. That and it’s probably just not possible for a desktop exe app to speak to a Microsoft AppX file.

[@ZZZXYZ]

Why did they conclude either or, it looked like it would have both arm and x86.

[@AdmiralBison]

Games as goods >>> Games as a service. (Cloud leveraging, streaming, live services etc...) OWN your games (Physical or DRM-free digital) and keep playing not keep paying. Once those corporate servers turn off, you can say goodbye to game preservation as well.

[@jeffgilleese6332]

You know the cloud comput was originally planned for the PS3 before it even launched.

[@Rhythmattica]

And did have cloud compute........ Albeit, Folding home

[@erik2913]

I have zero confidence that microsoft is ever going to be able to make ARM computing work on any platform

[@Darival92]

Apple already did it, if someone else can do it, it would have to be Microsoft.

[@bulletpunch9317]

​@@Darival92hopefully the fourth time(?)'s the charm!

[@Jokerwolf666]

Well as processors move towards smaller die sizes we're going to see the gap in performance get smaller and smaller between ARM and x86. I would not be surprised if an AI based API is created for graphics rendering, all we have to do is train AI on Graphics Computing and eventually we will get there and you will see dedicated gpus go away for pretty much everything.

[@ZeitGeist_TV]

I doubt it's for their main console and it's likely they're looking for ARM for cloud streaming only.

[@ibrohiem]

They can do it if they stop relying on third parties like Qualcomm and mediatek to get they crap together. They have to actively put billions into R&D for it to work. So it's just cheaper for them to get a custom soc from AMD.

[@ZZZXYZ]

Navi 5 is like 2025-2026, a decent pro model for the PS5 would land on Navi 4. Doubt much would change from one generation to warrant another console. Perhaps the Pro won't happen.

[@r5ve4t]

ps6 will use navi 6 or 7

[@chillnspace777]

​@@r5ve4tnaw it will likely go no higher the navi 5 for cost

[@r5ve4t]

@@chillnspace777 cry xbot

[@r5ve4t]

@@chillnspace777 ps5 use navi 2 in 2020 ,ps6 will use navi 6 or 7

[@chillnspace777]

@knightofplaystation no way the cost would be to high plus the finalize hardware specs a few years before it hits store shelves. Navi 4 or 5 at the most

[@anngo4140]

I'm surprise they still commit to the console model.

[@Cfreezy12]

I’m not, there’s always gonna be people who like me prefer to plug and play. We enjoy a simple life, albeit one that doesn’t have the optimization of pc lol

[@RocketRenton]

There is no optimization sadly in most titles in 2023 on both PC and Console hence why DLSS and FSR are being pushed, Starfield has shown that, and some games are a nightmare to get working properly on PC, it's not as bad as it was in the 90's but you still have to do a bunch of changes to config files to get a consistent framerate e.g Warzone.@@Cfreezy12

[@TheFirstRealChewy]

That's not surprising. The game streaming infrastructure is based on the Series X hardware.

[@no-barknoonan1335]

​@@Cfreezy12Recently it's been better to have a console than PC. There are some go to PC version of games, but a lot of PC games as of late have been terrible, and the consoles have been getting the better versions.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

​@no-barknoonan1335 that's ALWAYS Bern true for ports. The fact is the console platforms are all dying except for mobile. There are way more PC players than all the Xbox AND PlayStation owners combined. The whole console model is dying soon.

[@bub74sc28]

Or I don’t know if this a big reach why don’t we just make fun games the specs in the ps5 and series X is strong enough to push awesome graphics and performance it’s up to devs and publishers to utilize it we keep chasing graphics as if adding ray tracing path finding on a Turd is gonna magically make it better there’s a reason why consoles still to this day hold an incredibly large chunk of the gaming market it’s because people just want the easiest way to play a game and have fun. Asking for more detail should not jeopardize the fun factor in any game

[@NextNate03]

The reason hardware manufacturers hasn't had exotic hardware for years because they want to make profit from day 1. For years, they put state of the art hardware in the systems, they paid the ultimate price by doing so, they have to sell each system at a lost (PS3 was 200 to 300 USD lost on each unit). After the 7th generation, both Microsoft and Sony wanted to make profit right out of the gate (PS3 almost destroyed Sony). That is why they released low to mid tier hardware for the PS4 and X1. They both did the same thing with the current generation of hardware. *Regarding Cloud for X1* The reason Microsoft abandoned cloud gaming on X1 was the major policies changes between the announcement of the X1 and the release of it. Right around the announcement of X1, X1 was supposed to be always connected DRM riddled system that you have to connect online every once in a while for in order to play offline, otherwise X1 would become a paperweight. You would have to a authorized reseller to sell your games, you can't even lend any of your games out. After the backlash and Xbox CEO stepping down, they reversed on almost every single policy. By doing so, they had no choice to step away from the cloud gaming.

[@shawalfida6357]

No point having a powerful console but affordable next gen displays aren't a thing yet Next gen consoles would probably be locked to 120 fps max with ray tracing at best at 4k resolution. By then, most affordable gaming tvs would have come with 4 hdmi 2.1 ports. EU banned 8k tvs due to power consumption, good move EU, by then, consoles hopefully would be able to run cyberpunk in its full glory

[@AdmiralBison]

Don't care for leveraging of cloud or dependence on corporate servers and services i.e. Games as a service where the monetization occurs. MS tried to push that same bs with the Xbox One launch. AI can be done offline or independent of corporate servers and we can have ownership of our games and goods via drm-free and local offline solutions.

[@deathtrooper2048]

It's gonna be online only like the Xbox one, just better recieved.

[@RocketRenton]

90% of games now sold digitally in 2023, so I'd agree. The collector's market won't be thing anymore come 10th Gen.

[@PolyHertz]

@@RocketRenton The % of games sold digitally on consoles ranges so much depending on the article referenced that they should all be taken with a huge grain of salt. Also there's a lot of fake physical games that are used to pad out digital sales numbers ('collectors editions' that are just a case with a download code inside...ugh).

[@bigdaddy5303]

Man I just want to be able to play my games, without internet, off some sort of physical media. I have 100GB of free space on my series x, and 6 games I can't play until I update them, each 40-80GB updates. Why can't I just play single player on the version I already have, rather than delete, uninstall, wait 48 hours to download. I just switch the thing off and don't play anything.

[@MrGman543]

Is it really that hard to imagine that AMD could provide these things in 5 years? Frame gen is getting released Q1 2024, we know they're working on enhancing FSR with AI, and they purchased Xilinx and more recently Mipsology's Zebra AI to enhance their AI tech. I'm not understanding the pessimism on this one. Will they be behind Nvidia? Absolutely. Will they still be able to meet all these expectations by the time gen 10 releases? almost certainly. As for RT... the 4090 absolutely crushes everything on the market but once you get to the lower end products that gap closes dramatically. the 7800 XT is worse than the 4070 but only by 10%. By Navi 5 I'm sure they'll have decent enough RT.

[@spymaster07]

7800XT is better than 4070 lol

[@doct3rphil613]

What if they did license an Apple chip going the ARM route? There is exciting stuff there. If they're not going NVIDIA I'd be curious what it would look like with an Apple G1 or whatever.

[@breadone_]

no way apple would want that and besides, apple silicon chips work so well because of the integration with their OSs, be it macos or ios. i highly doubt apple has the desire or the ability to make a custom chip architecture just for the Xbox os

[@ianwparedes]

MS will not switch to nvidia for one reason...PRICE. the series x hits a sweet spot between price and performance that is just not possible economically with nvidia. In 5 years AMD is going to deliver a new chip that reasonably competes with nvidia's cutting edge tech but at a fraction of the cost.

[@xieulong]

We're talking about another generation already? I barely have any games for my PS5.

[@Timmy51m]

AI being what it is suggests we have no bloody idea where we're going to be in 5 years time, it could result in an acceleration of everything as we know it.

[@gulanhem9495]

lmao are you that impressed by chatbots? 😂

[@Timmy51m]

@@gulanhem9495 You're just ignorant if you think chatbots are the primary use for AI, can't help you with that.

[@gulanhem9495]

@@Timmy51m But your comment was so hyperbole lol. "we have no bloody idea where we're going to be" "an acceleration of everything as we know it" As if AI will revolutionize society and the economy within 5 years lol It IS Chat GTP that awakened this AI craze.

[@Timmy51m]

@@gulanhem9495 I said "could". Spend less time trolling comment sections on youtube like a less sophisticated version of an ai chatbot and educate yourself instead.

[@gulanhem9495]

@@Timmy51m lmao I almost feel like I ate you. 🤭

[@OptimumSlinky]

Alex does realize that nVidia did not invent ray tracing and frame interpolation, right? Like, credit where credit is due, nVidia is pushing hardest to bring these concepts into real-time rendering in games, but when he refers to RT, frame-gen, or ML stuff as "nVidia tech" it's kind of astounding. RTX implements the DirectX Raytracing API, which means that Microsoft has long been involved in RT programming even if it hasn't been reflected in the $500 console budget. nVidia doesn't "own" these concepts or techniques outside of marketing.

[@jayrob5270]

It's about cost, if ps undercuts Xbox by 100 ps wins, most console buyers don't care about cutting edge and 3rd party games will always target ps look at this gen when they ignored xboxs advantages.

[@strife9878]

Good luck getting that running in Latin and south America

[@itsjusterthought7941]

Richard get with it man. There is no evidence of a next gen Xbox console from MS. Those specs are for a platform, not a console. The platform is a client/server relationship. The technical specs refer to the server blades that deliver the content to the clients via streaming. The clients will be an app on mobile phone, smart TV, PC and an Xbox streaming box for $99. It's all there in front of you across the various documents. The road map shows gradual introduction of streaming into the mix and then total convergence in 2029 where the consoles are gone and all Xbox access is via streaming. There will be no more console gens. The servers will be constantly upgraded on the fly as tech advances, with consumer clients remaining static.

[@IDontKnow-bb6mt]

If the next Xbox needs the cloud for processing I’m out 100%

[@ianwparedes]

imagine playing an rpg where the NPC characters bahavior and responses are dynamically driven in real time by AI. just imagine all those possibilities.

[@revelator3665]

SX is the be(a)st.

[@RocketRenton]

Having owned the OG Xbox I would love to see Nvidia return for the next Xbox generation as DF have pointed out, Nvidia are way ahead of AMD.

[@no-barknoonan1335]

They absolutely are, the problem is they are famously a huge pain to work with. Xbox had a very bad time working with Nvidia during the OG Xbox, I can understand I really can. With that said, business is business, and Nvidia is making a killing, it behooves Xbox to try to get any leads they can. Having said that, it could be a pitfall and a trap to go Nvidia given their push to AI and machine learning now, it's hard to say how much Nvidia cares about hardware and how much it cares to make valuable partnerships. With Nvidia, maybe the next Xbox can be a true powerhouse? But who is to say developers won't squander the hardware same way as they do right now with series X and same way as they did with PS3 and the huge hardware advantage it had? Developing games is tricky, I don't want to beat developers up too much. But supposed Xbox goes Nvidia and Nvidia drops the floor out from under Xbox by not delivering enough hardware? And keep in mind Nvidia would charge top dollar, while maybe sticking with AMD their gains are less, but their losses and risks are also less. Maybe having a steady and effective gamepass model is a slow and steady approach that more behooves Xbox, rather than a bold and risky approach? Bold and risky is what ended up taking out Sega, that and a lot of other mismanagement. Nintendo at that time also made a lot of mistakes, and yet Nintendo survived and Sega did not. I believe Nintendo survived because it was slow and steady, and Sega was bold and aggressive, and they crumbled under their weight and their consumers went to PlayStation.

[@fretsofharmony]

They ain’t ahead in terms of apus in that regards there miles behind, it just makes sense to stick with amd as it’s much cheaper to stick with one company rather then source a cpu and a gpu

[@Wobbothe3rd]

​@@no-barknoonan1335Microsoft are ALREADY using RTX 4050s in their new Surface tablets! They're cheap and efficient.

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

nVidia famously screwed the hell out of Microsoft in that original Xbox deal, so Microsoft is not going nVidia for a long time yet. (Probably forever, but never say "never").

[@Melsharpe95]

@@TonkarzOfSolSystem Nvidia gpus are in the Microsoft Surface laptops.

[@dakingotheworld]

It always seems like we have to keep waiting until next year, next generation it's like we're crackheads 😂

[@slothsarecool]

This generation barely started, we got like two "next gen"-ish games haha

[@Drequan]

a df reaction vid 🫨

[@3d1e00]

Just imagine Nintendo ride this Nvidia wave and release a proper home console top end box in 5 years. They would instantly have the top performer if they wanted. Back cat the switch and have path tracing on all the new stuff. Sony and Microsoft would have a serious issue.

[@anonwalkerr]

I hope they never go back tbh. I would rather see them work with nvidia and push upscaling to the brink for a switch 3 or whatever. At most a GPU in the dock but I would never trade the current format for a stationary console, that isn't even Nintendo's Mo.

[@apfelschorle1988]

Nintendo consoles usually sell at a big profit while Xbox and PlayStation are sold at a lost (at the beginning). You can't put too powerful hardware if you want to make a profit with selling the hardware.

[@Tyler-hs9eu]

Has nintendo ever had a more powerful console amongst the other consoles over the generations?

[@3d1e00]

@@Tyler-hs9eu N64 and GameCube I believe. Was too young to know about NES and SNES though.

[@apfelschorle1988]

@@3d1e00 not the GameCube. The original Xbox was way ahead (well it was just a PC). The N64 was really powerful but held back by the cartridges and the architecture wasn't that easy for developers. Still remember the Nintendo Club magazines and advertisements where they praised the power of that machine. "Nintendo isn't about the graphics" really just started with the Wii.

[@calvincalvinify]

In 5 years AI will be making games within hours. And didn’t we just get the series X .. still feel underwhelmed with the games this gen. Damn even the new god of war was last gen.

[@shadowscreed17021]

I believe those leaks were meant to be leaked. Think about it.

[@ryutenmen]

With the last two-three generation of consoles weren't MS and Sony losing money on each unit sold? And that was mainly with AMD who is cheaper than NVIDIA, and also surely AMD made them sweet offer. With NVIDIA - the monolithic corporation, the prices for some eventual consoles will probably be at least 50% higher. Do you think MS and Sony will like to bleed money? Also, the fact that Xbox One/Series and PS4/5 were/are alike is a good thing, because the publisher will spend less for development of the games and the optimization, as much it can be done in this savage capitalism society. With much more expensive console and very different architecture, the situations will be worse for consumer(higher prices, fewer and very poorly optimized games, etc).

[@MrCaerbannog]

In Gen7 they were, but in Gen8 the PS4 was sold at a profit from the get-go, while the Xbox One was only initially sold at a loss because of the included Kinect (though the One X might have been a different story, given it used some very specialised production techniques).

[@ryutenmen]

@@MrCaerbannog even *if was so with PS4(though I kind of doubt it), the point still stands - with Nvidia the process will be significantly higher, and also with exotic and different architectures the development will be harder which will imply higher prices for games.

[@gorofujita5767]

Very different architecture might mean substantial differences in the solutions found for graphical rendering, which in the grand scheme of things may mean much more interesting titles

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Microsoft have already licensed RTX 4050 Laptop GPUs for their Surface tablets. Very cheap and efficient, better at raytracing than a Series S according to benchmarks.

[@Potato_n_Tomato]

We've gone full circle WiTh ThE PoWeR oF ThE ClOUd

[@Wobbothe3rd]

In case you haven't noticed the Datacenter is the new computing paradigm, far outside of gaming. Fre to play games are bigger thsn most AAAs.

[@skydivin4ng3l]

Well nvidia has zero interest in going into console market. They are only interested in AI accelerators where the big money, they already dial down GPU products.

[@VampireNoblesse]

Xbox doesn't care for the highest grafix factor, instead they care for the most common factors.., as weaker mobile devices are the most common too

[@giantbellend]

Next big Microsoft purchase will be UE5. Willing to bet my years salary on it.

[@GermanEnigma]

The Future of Call of Duty

[@WildfireX]

I mean, it should be happening on pc first when the cost is like 5-10x more.

[@issaciams]

You guys are way off here. Why would either Xbox or Sony partner with Nvidia when that would mean the consoles would have to cost hundreds of dollars more? Console gamers do not want to spend over a thousand dollars on a console like PC gamers do for a mid level PC. It's 2 different markets. You guys are so wrong here. Lol

[@wizzenberry]

microsoft and the power of the cloud again, will they ever learn?

[@MarquisDeSang]

Not powerful enough for VR.

[@Alexander-ix2jp]

I'm still on ps3 after downgrading from ps4

[@MichaelM28]

Why did you do that?

[@Alexander-ix2jp]

@@MichaelM28 I like the ps3 gen more and I'm completely skipping the current gen too (PS5 and series Xbox).

[@joshuaDstarks]

Are you some kinda masochist?

[@Alexander-ix2jp]

@@joshuaDstarks nope

[@mikeuk666]

​@MichaelM28 some folk enjoy retro gaming

[@glenmcl]

This is why Digital Foundry don't make consoles. No vision.

[@melanitex1089]

Oh god not this Cloud crap again. Did they not pay attention to what happened with Stadia?

[@kalensus]

This is all supposed to be changed now according to the latest rumours - MS is looking to start next-gen within the next 2-3 years instead of doing a mid-gen refresh with Brooklin and Ellewood now cancelled.

[@gulanhem9495]

lmao next gen in 2-3 years when this gen has barely started? Nobody is making a next console before 2028.

[@G360LIVE]

@@gulanhem9495 This gen started 3 years ago for Sony and Microsoft. If Sony does a PS5 Pro next year, then Microsoft will need a new, more powerful console sooner rather than later or risk sales declining even more, which would also be bad for Game Pass subs. So, I can see Microsoft launching into next gen earlier than you believe. I mean, Xbox 360 to Xbox One was 8 years, and Xbox One to Xbox Series X/S was 7 years. The Series X/S had to come out earlier because the Xbox One wasn't selling as many units as the Xbox 360, and it's looking like the Series X/S won't even sell as many units as the Xbox One. The sooner sales decline, the sooner that new hardware is needed.

[@Name-gx5lh]

no shot

[@kyledodson2992]

The always online only digital paper weight. Y’all youngsters enjoy it, but I think 9th gen will be my last. I’ve been beat down by all the modern gaming stuff like battle passes, broke at launch etc. and it all still sells millions. I guess kids still buy the crap, or their parents just buy it, but I’m losing hope very fast

[@sphericalred]

Buy PC, 5 years to save until 2028

[@joshuaDstarks]

Youngsters. Kids. How old are you?

[@steveafanador6441]

Me too brother and I've been gaming since 86 🤷

[@RocketRenton]

Yep, broken at launch has been the norm now for decades. MW 2 is one example of that, still horribly broken and now MW 3 will either fix it or make it even worse, as Sledgehammer have shown with Vanguard, I'd bet money on the latter. Battle Passes are also all FOMO, and again Warzone being a prime example and they started this last year, and this year it's gone way past the point of no return, they make it harder and harder to get it complete and they want you to spend more money or make the game a full time job just to complete it or just go AFK which then defeats the point of actually buying the battle pass and play the game, and wasting your electricity at the same time.

[@henryevans9970]

Digital Foundry, should do a game engine show that shows the difference between these game engines and how different a engine can make a game. Because I’m a little confused, how is Insomniac able to do what they do on PS5 but everyone else seem a few years back in being able to get the best out of the system with their game engine. Is Unreal 5 really helping or is it leading to lazy programming by developers, not making custom engines for their games.

[@VideogamesAsArt]

The moment when microsoft or sony approach nvidia, their console will be a switch 2, it will be a much weaker hardware for the same price. nvidia just isn't price competitive. Even with their superior technology. A 4060 Ti can't compare to a 7700 XT, no matter how much dlss and ray tracing there is to give it an advantage, before it runs out of power

[@IIAnointedII]

That cloud-client garbage is the same exact trash that the Xbox one was suppose to be (crackdown 3 destruction). Which means the hardware itself will be underpowered compared to others when it drops

[@RocketRenton]

Microsoft would have to get all the ISP's involved and put Azure servers at node level in all major cities to even stand a chance of Cloud gaming, there are only 2 Xbox Live servers in the UK currently, one in Cardiff and one in London. I get a ping to the London server of 10ms for Fortnite, but latency is what kills Cloud gaming, it's the laws of physics. Contention is another issue now as we roll out more fibre across the world, that will also cause issues, as Richard has rightly pointed out if all those 200,000 people were playing Starfield concurrently, the servers would get hammered. I remember back in 2007 at Christmas when Xbox Live melted due to over 1 million players trying to play Modern Warfare, it went on for 2 weeks so it's happened before, this was the rack mounted servers not the cloud VM stuff that Azure is now in 2023.

[@r5ve4t]

Ps6 will destroy xbox next gen

[@xtr.7662]

Thats a good risk graphics have kinda peaked anyways doesnt matter if its much weaker even

[@Wobbothe3rd]

The datacenter is coming to dominate computing, gaming or not.

[@markwheeler4245]

Remember Crackdown 3 the power of the cloud yeah that put me off seeing the destruction where buildings made of concrete collapsed like paper, no weight to the physics, im no expert but using the cloud to significantly improve our hardware sounds like bullshit to me very unreliable at least, what im looking for in a next generation console is a focus on more than graphics i want AI of NPCs and crowds to drastically improve and physics havent evolved really in many years, world simulation, these things that go beyond pretty graphics and frame rates.

[@Krypterium]

if MS will include Nvidia in there Future Xbox that will be crazy

[@carlharrison3637]

Xbox owners will be like "woohoo we're going to run the gaming world". Microsoft : "woohoo we're going to be able to charge whatever the hell we want and no one will be able to go anywhere else for their entertainment". Thats the plan. Thats always BEEN the plan. Thats Microsoft and they will hurt your butt when the time comes.

[@luckyrockmore2796]

The future of video games will eventually be AI generated experiences unique to each individual user

[@ZombieGangster]

That would be sick ngl

[@JoseSilva-wv2sh]

If sony doesn’t sign a deal with nvidia but xbox does than they might loose their market leadership position

[@floodsye]

The AI, cloud-driven stuff is very promising and there's definitely grounds for innovation there, but the rest of the package is baffling. It's like they are confident with saying..."Our machine will exactly like Sony's...but with no console exclusives!"...AGAIN !! And the feature set would be fine for a console coming out this year, but that's their pie in the sky vision for 2028? I'm concerned.

[@johntrussell7228]

"Next Gen Console" = less powerful than a gaming PC from 2 years ago.

[@mikeuk666]

So something that came out 3yrs ago isn't as powerful as something released a year later at double the cost...... your point kid?

[@alumlovescake]

@@mikeuk666 consoles are made to last 10 years

[@durrclips746]

What a cope. The absolute top end pcs maybe. But the vast majority of pc users still have 1060's. Over 50% of steam users are on a 1060 or less. Absolutely nowhere even close to a Series X or PS5.

[@gtmode6947]

Ignoring the sky high costs to build a gaming PC

[@vandammage1747]

Lmao a two year old gaming pc will be stoneage compared to next gen consoles.

[@dotjaz]

So in other words, Nvidia is all you need. Monopoly for the win.

[@headninjadog8120]

Microsoft is determined to make there 2012 mandate of not playing used games a reality. They're well on there way to ruining gaming. A strong Sony is important in my opinion when it comes to the gaming industry. M$ has so much money that it can uncompetitively turn the tide of gaming to its vision.

[@gulanhem9495]

lmao Microsoft is completely failing in their venture in gaming. They don't even make good games. Gaming is far too big for it be threatened by an out of touch company like MS.

[@ianwparedes]

its actually the other way around. if it werent for xbox, you would still be stuck with proprietary memory cards and no type of online service standard. i understand the concerns against a big company like MS but i believe they are trying to compete and innovate.

[@headninjadog8120]

@@ianwparedes I'm actually going to agree with this as far as gaming was in the early 2000s. The OG Xbox got me into gaming in 2002. I was already in my mid 20s and never really into gaming. Having an Xbox lead me to get a PS2 and to really get into the gaming industry. I don't see that kind of competition lasting when dealing with M$ and their unending well of cash.

[@YataLocK]

You guys want consoles to cost $1k? By all means, go with Nvidia. Oh wait, they can't provide a CPU like AMD can.

[@SimonStewart75]

This spec list looks more like a hastily cobbled together, ill considered wish list. At this point, I've got a weird feeling that we won't see another Xbox console.

[@gulanhem9495]

They have gazillions invested in studios making games as we speak. Of course there will be a new Xbox. But it will fail horribly, just like the whole Gamepass strategy.

[@ianwparedes]

"we won't see another xbox console". i've been hearing that prediction for 20 years 😂

[@1997Ghost]

It will be better than playstation.

[@Cueil]

Are we forgetting that NVIDIA screwed Microsoft over on the OG Xbox?

[@dysnomia1132]

Why not make 3 New consoles? 400 Dollars entry 600 high 900 Enthusiast

[@ianwparedes]

because it would just turn into the fragmented PC market at that point. the strength of console is the standard. without standards you just become the PC. do you remember the steam box?

[@dysnomia1132]

@@ianwparedes yes of course, but ms have Done it with the x and s ..hmm mabye a console is just a console, a low to mid range pc....

[@I_SuperHiro_I]

Digital only…..im out.

[@SHINSEIYA]

Guys talked like every console has come out with an edge over PC none console. Always play cash up. You talked like console lead the way you are so strange

[@turrican4d599]

Xbox360 was faster than a high end PC.

[@punkpop101]

I completely agree. If they want to make something meaningful for next-gen they need to shift to N-Vidia or Intel. AMD hardware is far beyond N-Vidia when it comes to next-gen graphics features.

[@gabinidal6908]

Another console and controllers with no quality games... cmon xbox, bring back the 360 era!

[@oldb3139]

Recently build a pc. I'm out of Xbox. Big fan since the original Xbox, I forgave them the Xbox One mess up, bought the One X, then the Series X which I love, despite it not having great exclusives, but I strongly feel they are trying to kill themselves as far as the console space goes. Dumb decision on dumb decision.

[@G360LIVE]

I bought an OG Xbox at launch and an Xbox 360 at launch. I didn't buy an Xbox One after the "TV, TV, TV..." reveal and gave PC gaming a chance a few years later, and I've never looked back. The nice thing is that I don't feel like I've missed out on the Xbox One games because they're on Steam. Plus, I bought two Series X/S controllers through Xbox Design Lab. So, it's like Xbox gaming on PC, and I really don't care if Microsoft stops making Xbox consoles.

[@durrclips746]

Its ridiculous were talking about next gen when this gen has been a complete joke. There still relessing games on PS4 and Xbox One!!!

[@deathtrooper2048]

The reason why is that devs are just straight up lazy, they are demanding the same pay for doing less work, most next gen only games don't look much better than last gen and run worse.

[@dvdsbl]

We don't want AMD based consoles anymore.

[@r5ve4t]

Cry nvidia fanboy, You nvidia fanboys and the xbox fanboys are in denial and scared about ps6

[@Wobbothe3rd]

​@@r5ve4tcope.

[@alexsaraceno6144]

They should go with Nvidia for Gen 10 console. DLSS is way ahead of AMD's FSR. And no "S" nonsense. Just make one beastly console.

[@chillnspace777]

This

[@RocketRenton]

Totally agree, looks like Microsoft are copying Nvidia then using AMD to power it which seems counterproductive, but the problem is cost. Nvidia see AI as the big earner going forward and that's a big issue for PC as we might see a future where GPU's will not be as powerful as we now see with the 4090, AMD have already said they are not targeting the high end for the 8 series and are aiming for the low to mid range market, they have done really well with the 7800 XT and it's sold out so I have heard.

[@fcukugimmeausername]

The S has been an enormous success for MS though.

[@wulfrina]

But we still didn’t see how FSR 3.0 works in real games

[@dodgykebaab]

Olie looks like he has a huge tongue; and probably a very happy girlfriend!

[@trevinraj]

2nd

[@cocobos]

1st!

[@F1neW1ne]

Why does'nt nVidia put out their own $600 console? they are certainly large enough to do it? Oh and nVidia does not have 80% Marketshare in the GPU market. They have 75% but close enough. But I bet what is really going on is... MS and Sony both have been asking... hey AMD engineers! when do we get an improved upscaling tech as well as Framegen. These 4k TV's need it man! And AMD has been... we are coming out with FSR3. But now... almost a year in? Not here and not yet proven. I surmise that AMD will lose the console contract if they do not have it out in the next 2 months. And if that happens? Get ready for your first $1499 console featuring an intel CPU and nVidia GPU. From way back when I asked why nVidia was not the GPU in consoles, the answer was (years ago) it would not be a $500 console if we did that and parents aint gonna pay $1299 to put one under the tree. My bet would be that AMD was able to provide the silicone that would allow the console to be affordable. But times are a changing!

[@Wobbothe3rd]

They have MORE than 80% if you don't count integrated. Of all discrete GPUs sold Nvidia dominates with more than 85%.

[@F1neW1ne]

@@Wobbothe3rd Source? I'm not so sure about that. Recent quarterly shipments only tell part of the story. Will be interresting to see if there is any additional shift next month in the Steam Hardware Survey. AMD gained 2% installed base March to Aug. Baby steps and maybe even a rounding error. But there is a crap ton of 3080's on ebay with their prices dropping from mining rigs. They might flood the PC Gaming segment and change that landscape. But hey... if you want to cheer for a monopoly (go look that up) go for it. Consumers and KZbin micro-influencer channels will rue the day. Mark my words LOL. Remember Intel and the quad core CPU for years and years until AMD finally lit a fire under them?? Boring hobby.

[@ianwparedes]

because it would be $1000 not $600 😂

[@F1neW1ne]

@@ianwparedes To be honest I could see how the next one will cost that much

[@dragoslav3859]

MAKE SOME NEXT GEN GAMES FIRST!!!!! 12 Teraflops and Gotham Knights is 30fps. Starfield 30fps. How much do you want to bet Fable 30fps. This gen has been a joke. Halo looked like an early last gen game. Sonys games are so damn polished and performance based. I’m an xbox guy, but damn take a lesson from Sony.

[@fcukugimmeausername]

You do realise that any decent, current gen game, would also be 30fps on PS5 right?

[@dragoslav3859]

God of war ragnarok, horizon forbidden west, and spider-man 2 all have options of 60fps.

[@beanis8624]

I fully expect Elder scrolls six to be using AI for npc's.

[@Thedownliner2015]

Lol not even 3 years since the launch of the current console they are already getting ready to fleece the console users for another one. Understand when it comes to Consoles vs PCs the Console is always going to be 2 or 3 gens behind the current PC specs and that has to happen because otherwise the Console would cost more than the Gaming PC. The Console is basically the dummies version of the PC minus the savings you make on actual game prices as Console games rarely change prices.

[@ThorStoneGaming]

The real dummies are the ones who pay full price for digital games on PC. Some of us buy consoles because we prefer physical media, not because we are too dumb to use them.

[@vandammage1747]

Lmao 80% of pc gamers are far behind console gamers. Delusional...

[@alumlovescake]

how these idiots legally were allowed to buy out anyway is still a shock

[@Zinkolo]

16:25 You're a big believer in the eventual preservation nightmare of games with unnecessary cloud and AI integration? HOW? Does no one in DF care about the end consumer who wants to play offline or care about the creative prowess of something hand crafted and made by a human soul? Do you guys not see how horrible this idea of having AI generated dialogue? Treating a game as a product you can homogenize with the same automated features is not a good thing. It's dystopian.

[@lxXSuddenDeathXxl]

I think he’s just being optimistic because we can bash on it all day but let’s be realistic for a sec. If this is happening then it’s already in motion so let’s play devils advocate & think about the possibilities. We know DF crew are strong hardware/physical believers so i wouldn’t hold that against him for just trying to see the other side.

[@no-barknoonan1335]

I hear your passion, I agree with it, but I don't think DF is against the consumer or doesn't care about preservation. If AI can make cool new experiences, then it would be incredible. I suspect in reality it won't be the big new thing, I think it's not realistic and it'll face big problems and likely won't ever come to market, but I don't think developers should be afraid to experiment or try new technology.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Most games played are already online only free to play esports type games. AAA is actually not dominant on the PC.

[@Zinkolo]

Hey guys I appreciate the comments and I agree with some of your sentiments. Sorry for being harsh I just get really uh. "Passionate" about this sort of thing. But I really do appreciate the kind comments. I apologize for being so rash