NOT A JOKE: Oreos Can Lower LDL Cholesterol!

Paper link: www.mdpi.com/2218-1989/14/1/73
*Call to action*
- HELP US promote this line of research by COPYING THE ABOVE LINK and including it in a post to social media, especially Twitter... I'll also be highlighting the best takes in the coming week ;)
0:00 - Intro
0:28 - metabolic demonstration
0:43 - Part I, the idea
1:30 - LMHR triad
1:58 - Lipid Energy Model
3:06 - Part II, the experimental design
4:19 - Part III, results
6:00 - results summary
6:40 - Part IV, What’s Next?
7:37 - Thanks and Call to Action
Aim: To tested the prediction -- consistent with the Lipid Energy Model (below) -- that adding carbohydrates (in the form of Oreo cookies) to an LMHR on a ketogenic diet would reduce LDL-C levels by a similar, or greater, magnitude than high-intensity statin therapy.
Findings: Oreo supplementation (12 cookies/d) lowered LDL-C by 71% (273 mg/dl) in just 16 days. Rosuvastatin (20 mg/d) lowered LDL-C by 32.5% (137 mg/dl). Thus, Oreos were ~2X as potent as high-intensity statin therapy for LDL cholesterol lowering in this LMHR subject.
The Why: The LMHR phenotype has much to teach us about human metabolism, and cardiovascular disease pathophysiology. It's a new frontier that deserves further study, for the sake of the patients with this phenotype and for pure scientific curiosity! This experiment will serve as 'productive provocation,' a form of 'legit-bait' that will hopefully help prompt discussions and larger-scale experiments that need to happen.
6 select Prior publications
1/ META of RCTs (new, 1/16/24)
Sota-Mota A, Flores-Jurado Y, Norwitz NG, Feldman D, Pereira MA, Danaei G, Ludwig DS. Increased LDL cholesterol in adults with normal but not high body weight: a meta-analysis. Amer J of Clin Nutr. 2024; doi: 10.1016/j.ajcnut.2024.01.009
*LINK: www.sciencedirect.com/science...
VIDEO: • NEW STUDY Proves it's ...
2/ n = 10 lean healthy women
Cooper ID, Sanchez-Pizarro C, Norwitz NG, Feldman D, Kyriakidou Y, Edwards Kurtis, Petagine L, Eliiot BT, Sota-Mota A. Thyroid markers and body composition predict LDL-cholesterol change in lean healthy women on a Ketogenic Diet: Experimental support for Lipid Energy Model. Frontiers in Endocrinology. 2023; doi: 10.3389/fendo.2023.1326768
LINK: www.frontiersin.org/articles/...
VIDEO: • Cholesterol Manipulati...
3/ JCL editorial
Norwitz NG, Mindrum M, Giral P, Kontush A, Soto-Mota A, Wood TR, D’Agostino DP, Manubolu VS, Budoff M, Krauss RM. Elevated LDL cholesterol among lean mass hyper-responders on low-carbohydrate diets deserve urgent clinical attention and further research. Journal of Clinical Lipidology. 2022; doi:10.1016/j.jacl.2022.10.010
Link: www.lipidjournal.com/article/...
4/ Lipid Energy Model
Norwitz NG, Soto-Mota A, Kaplan R, Ludwig DS, Budoff M, Kontush A, Feldman D. The Lipid Energy Model: reimagining lipoprotein function in the context of carbohydrate-restricted diets. Metabolites. 2022; doi: 10.3390/metabo12050460
Link: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35629...
Video: • High LDL Cholesterol I...
5/ LMHR, first paper
Norwitz NG, Feldman D, Soto-Mota A, Kalayjian T, Ludwig DS. Elevated LDL-cholesterol with a carbohydrate-restricted diet: evidence for a “lean mass hyper-responder” phenotype. Current Developments in Nutrition. 2022; doi: 10.1093/cdn/nzab144
Link: cdn.nutrition.org/article/S24...
6/ Low Sat Fat LMHR case report
Norwitz NG, Soto-Mota A, Feldman D, Parpos S, Budoff M. Case report: hypercholesterolemia “lean mass hyper-responder” phenotype presents in the context of a low saturated fat carbohydrate restricted diet. Frontiers in Endocrinology. 2022; doi: 10.3389/fendo.2022.830325
Link: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Video: • New Case Study - High ...

[@camsonnenberg4399]

I have been on the cutting edge of cookie therapy since childhood.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

HAHHAA

[@davesanders9203]

LOL!!!!

[@jgeph2.4]

lol

[@dellzywillis3001]

Lmao! Awesome!

[@chrisdsouza8685]

Best comment ever 😂

[@LawrenceAugust_]

“Talk to your doctor and see if Oreovastatin is for you.”

[@MichelleRN]

Pfizer has probably already had that trademarked 😆

[@Nuts-Bolts]

Oreovastatin? Now that will be a really big pill to swallow.

[@elaineauo]

lol

[@sweetiespoon5150]

​@TheRadixLecti No worries. It's a chewable tablet. 😂

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

LOL... thank you for the light-hearted joke. I hope we all agree I'm not recommending Oreos for health... and I can't believe how much I have to caveat this...

[@dakotasomers6771]

Maybe they will slap a "heart healthy" label on Oreos like the cereal companies do lol

[@jamescalifornia2964]

Exactly 💯 👌

[@shiftgood]

And a Netflix documentary

[@jayhay1237]

Brilliant! About like Cheerios?

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

If standard doesn't work, do we need to uptitrate to double-stuffed?

[@robertroyal6478]

A Dr once gave me a prescription for a 6pack of beer. I suppose I'll need to ask him for an Oreo prescription too.

[@brianbachmeier34]

“Medical science is making such remarkable progress that soon none of us will be well.” - Aldous Huxley

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Dystopian...

[@claypulley589]

Is that a real quote? Wow!

[@rebchizelbeak5392]

@@wilsont1010a 0.8% reduction in absorbed fats doesn’t help when you take in 800% more fat.

[@gravityworks777]

Definitely the “truth” for today

[@nickmagrick7702]

relevant quote

[@boutthere3374]

Pharma is gonna try to patent Oreo cookies and increase the price 1000%

[@wheelofcheese100]

😂👍

[@markiangooley]

I’m sure that Hydrox would be even better!

[@buckjones4901]

Then the off brand dollar store oreo cookies will have to get an approval as a generic drug.

[@frankenz66]

Patent corn syrup and flour so they become so expensive Big Food stops using them.

[@sheronlee152]

😂yep!

[@bigcat9977]

[0:40] "I certainly would not recommend cookies for health..." I also would not recommend statins for health neither...

[@buckjones4901]

Funny part is the Oreo is probably safer for your health.

[@Alecmcq]

Thanks for taking one for the team, Nick. In both eating the cookies and taking the statin. Neither very healthy.

[@davesanders9203]

Keto Oreo CHAFFLES!!! ?????

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I believe in a patient's autonomy of choice... I will leave it at that

[@mariejones7136]

Let me eat Oreos lol

[@Winterascent]

There was a time when doctors would say, "treat patients, not lab values", but I guess we have reached a time when corporations control so much that a healthy patient must be medicated to treat the lab values, to the patient's detriment, or else.

[@arnoldfrackenmeyer8157]

You hit the nail right on the head. Perfect statement.

[@hn5460]

Nope. U simply didn't understand science and how good studies are designed.

[@janisansbergs2441]

The problem is in the fact that most studies in regard to cholesterol and cardiovascular health had conclusions based on correlation, while causation is still discutable. I started studying medicine in 1970ies and at that time the blame has shifted from just dietary fats, to saturated fats, later - to low-density lipoprotein (LDL), then to oxidized LDL (Ox-LDL). But In 1981, the role of the autoimmune reaction in the development of atherosclerosis was discovered. Further, Libby et al. promoted the inflammatory theory of atherosclerosis. They tried to treat atherosclerosis with monoclonal antibodies against a proinflammatory cytokine. In 2020, a new hypothesis emerged. It has been shown that when enterocytes are overloaded with fat, the fat droplets (chylomicrons) produced in the secretory pathway of small intestinal cells increase in size and contain fewer proteins, although they are sucked into the lymph. When such chylomicrons pass through the overloaded Golgi complex (a cellular organelle where a long chain of polysaccharides, like starch or glycogen, is attached to proteins for export) glycosylation (attachment of such chains) of apoproteins is disrupted. Glycosylation errors lead to autoantigens, to which the body responds by producing autoantibodies. So, the science actually did not provide the straight conclusion that LDL or very low LDL is the culprit. If so, then why we stay so focused on levels of Cholesterol fractions? Low carbohydrate diet might help to improve human health in so many aspects (also by reducing level of glycation of bodily substances), then why levels of cholesterol fractions are so important to you?

[@Nuts-Bolts]

What is the point of going to Med School if all one has to do is follow protocols?

[@cathiemcginnis3997]

@@hn5460 sarcasm, right?

[@anneh8249]

Thanks for sharing all these cool findings with us! I’m a LMHR my husband and I have been doing low carb/carnivore for over two years. My GP wants me to go on statins because my LDL is over 250, I said no, he asked me to do a CAC. It came back zero. I feel really frustrated with insurance companies that go off cholesterol as a judge of health, then force you to pay higher rates. So frustrating, I wish we could start a class action to stop punishing people doing low carb and have high cholesterol (except my triglycerides are in the 60’s). Insurance companies should test insulin, A1C and CAC scores for high premiums!

[@hn5460]

They do test A1C or fasting blood sugar, they don't care about CAC scores for a good reason, and they really value the total, LDL cholesterol, non HDL cholesterol, ApoB levels because they're inversely, significantly associated with the longevity of their clients. In short, they are smarter than you and many other people, including NW-PhD, think.

[@testadumed7035]

But , now you know to eat cookies before next visit to your Doctor.😂

[@otallono]

@@testadumed7035 lol true, or stop going to doctors knowing they're going to do this in the first place. I keep asking, why are these carnivores going to the doctor (and paying money) if they're healthy. You don't see a doctor when you're healthy. Certainly not one that doesn't know what their doing. THEN complain when their rates go up? I'm mostly carnivore, I know better.

[@grben9959]

My doc wanted me to go on statins with a total cholesterol always under 120 (I run HDL around 35. LDL 55-65. Triglycerides about 80) because I'm diagnosed diabetic. I had an A1c test come back just below 7 a couple years ago that was confirmed a week later. I adjusted diet to restrict carbohydrates and have held around 5.5 since. I asked what she was trying to do with the statin since I'm right at dyslipidemia for too low of cholesterol. Her reply was that studies show diabetics on statins have less coronary disease than ones who don't take them and diabetes is a risk factor for heart disease. She couldn't explain what she was trying to do with the drug beyond that correlation; I passed on it.

[@Birdylockso]

@@grben9959 What do you think of Triglyceride to HDL ratio? You are at more than 2. Is that a cause for concern?

[@TheRSpacek]

Nick this is so awesome! Congratulations... Being a cardiologist myself, I can feel the ground shaking... :-))

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

THANKS!!!

[@DK-pr9ny]

Tell your colleagues!

[@estinhewart]

“There are two kinds of cardiologists: vegans, and those who haven't read the data.” - Kim Williams, 2016 President of the American College of Cardiology

[@estinhewart]

You need plant based

[@estinhewart]

Please acknowledge the actual science

[@CashMoneyMoore]

Citizen science research at it's finest! Congratulations Nick, this will turn heads for sure

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@jamesdellaneve9005]

No. It won’t. It’s dogma. But, it’s a great troll. “Lower LDL is good. Oreos lower LDL. Ergo. Oreos are good”.

[@TickleMeTimbers]

How is this citizen science? He is a published researcher...

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@TickleMeTimbers I can be both a PhD researcher and a "citizen scientist" even when I'm Dr Dr Nicholas G Norwitz MD PhD of Oxford and Harvard... you can call me "Nick" or "Nicky" ... I'm not very formal or fussed :)... bing a citizen scientists is about being authentically interested in the science for it's own sake, not just for citations and resume points

[@TickleMeTimbers]

Ok... whatever nick.

[@forajc]

Thank you Nicholas!! Your graphic and explanation of the Lipid Energy Model really helped me wrap my head around the LMHR.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

The graphics on this were all Dave Feldman!

[@cynthiahelmich3762]

Amazing research. I hope your videos go viral!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Me too

[@richardpalacio1147]

I stupidly and ignorant of excess carbohydrates spent a year learning ( and eating) how to bake breads, never been a fan of sugar forever so that wasn't an issue, I'm a fresh hot bread with butter kinda guy with my meats and salad. Always exercised with weights and cycling 200k/week typically. My total cholesterol dropped from 280 to a "healthy'😂 150, HDL 50ish TRIGLYCERIDES ~150 doctor had no comments. I'd stopped statins eight years ago (been taking lowest Simvastatin like 15 years) after seeing my muscles and general health decline and learning about the side effects I'd stopped Rx. I then dropped essentially all carbs went high protein Ketovore, it took two years but my muscles are recovering, morning wood back🎉, feeling thirty again. Health far better overall. Never get sick or tired, sleeping like a baby. Last checkup my total cholesterol 306, HDL &TRIGLYCERIDES AROUND 70. Statins are slow poison and essentially double aging process by preventing natural healing. SO I ESSENTIALLY DID THAT EXPERIMENT FOR A YEAR. I've also returned to my high school weight dropping 15# without effort. I'm 69 years old BTW feel same as forty and my health still improving I expect my myopia to be gone in few more months and already don't use my glasses outdoors. I've been wearing glasses since 11y old. My ability to focus clearly gradually has gone from 20cm to 60cm though can't be sure if I'll be 20/20 but my night vision is perfect💯 also I'd gotten night tinnitus that's totally disappeared. Another thing while eating all that bread I developed several cm wide brown🟤 spots on my face which I attribute to carb oxidation they're gone I presume same thing was occurring in the rest of my body. The 7th DA preacher (vegetarians) up the street who has terrible crippling sarcopenia and needs full time care has ugly black⚫ too. His mother I remember needed full time care for years and died of angry Alzheimer's too.... His wife died around 60y she was always frail... sad but a learning experience for me. The worst thing is their religion is behind the whole plant based propaganda you hear about. Garden of Eden diet🥦🍎🥗🍌... they're destroying health worldwide and in bed with Kellogg's and other corporate interests.

[@byronsmith1982]

Epico!! Congrats!

[@johnallen7367]

Fabulous. Im 63, went straight into carnivore. Lost 70lbs, and every chronic illness I had. Never been healthier! Kicked my heart meds. Exercising hard, my power is returning.

[@richardpalacio1147]

things I didn't mention, had testosterone checked I'ts around 600 and I expect it to be higher next checkup ALL MY B-vit at highest level and my insulin is 4 last two years, I asked my GP for that test and when asked why I wanted it and had to explain to him how you can have normal glucose with high insulin and it's not a good thing, at the time he said so lower is better? and I said well not 0 or you've got type 1 diabetes to his credit he ordered it and seemed to understand, additionally my PSA was ok it went from .9 to 1.0 during the bread and has DROPPED to .6 now after two years , skin thickened and like when playing with my dogs slightest contact with their claws it would tear like paper and take like week+ to heal now none of that happens and I heal from minor injuries in three days typically, hair NOT falling out like before I'm growing a nice pony tail as an experiment, just realized my yearly winter ankle pain from terrible sprain in high school hasn't happened, I'd get lower back pain after cycling first hour so I'd take little break, that's gone too, my mood not different but I've always been a generally happy guy anyway cause I'm a spoiled only child brat🤣 anyway. I have noticed my GF (gotta flex she's 37y we've been together 16y and works full time) seems more pleasant generally she eats what I make as I'm the cook and she likes to clean so that's nice. So she's 🔴💊 now too and starting to hassle her numerous poor health siblings and extended family. Spreading the word.

[@HoneyHollowHomestead]

Unfortunately, after my husband had a heart attack on Christmas Eve and they put in a stint, they then put him on a drug cocktail that includes a statin. Almost a month later I am starting to see him decline even more. But he believes the doctor knows best. Which is worse, if he had died that night, or turning into a helpless invalid? 😟

[@johnallen7367]

@@HoneyHollowHomestead ive had a stent. Ive also kicked statins and gone carnivore. Amazing results. Medical profession is no longer trustworthy.

[@shannon2003]

I’m so glad you and Dave Feldman are doing these experiments. Bravo!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@toddwmac]

Great stuff....the research and this presentation. As a 60 year old lean "athlete" who has always had very high cholesterol (since first being tested as a college soccer player) and preferred a relatively low carb diet, I'm definitely following your research more closely. As a side note you might find interesting, a few years ago I determined I was seriously gluten intolerant...not celiac, but debilitatingly intolerant. I had dealt with intense groin and back pain, and other common symptoms for decades but never attached them to food. I went cold turkey on gluten one day after viewing a pediatric conference on celiac and it was the best thing I ever did for my health. My carb intake dropped considerably and w/in months my weight returned to my college soccer weight, groin and lower back pain disappeared and other random pains vanished and skin improved. The only thing that went the other way was my cholesterol. It started to rise . It had been slowly decreasing over the years, but I was not on statins. Looking at your theory, I suspect it might have been due to an increase in my carb intake. I married an Italian 2 decades ago and we love to cook together. Looking back at my blood work, I can see a correlation to decreasing cholesterol and time being married with lots of pizza making and pasta recipes. With the big rise in gluten free options today, this might not be the case anymore but there might be something there. Sorry this got verbose, but I thought you might find it interesting. Good luck in getting this info more broadly circulated. The powers at be will likely kill or quickly discredit this info as soon as it gets more traction. There is too much money in statins and doctors, nurses and PA drinking from the pharma trough won't put up with it.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"I went cold turkey on gluten one day after viewing a pediatric conference on celiac and it was the best thing I ever did for my health. My carb intake dropped considerably and w/in months my weight returned to my college soccer weight, groin and lower back pain disappeared and other random pains vanished and skin improved." -- HAPPY FOR YOU! -- "The only thing that went the other way was my cholesterol. It started to rise." -- Pretty Typical LMHR -- "I married an Italian 2 decades ago and we love to cook together. Looking back at my blood work, I can see a correlation to decreasing cholesterol and time being married with lots of pizza making and pasta recipes." FASCINATING OBSERVATION!

[@KimDsmom]

Don’t you mean: “Great DOUBLE Stuff” ???

[@Highintensityhealth]

Excellent case study! Thanks for your work, Nicholas!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thank you!

[@Keto-Runner]

I am meat-heavy Keto, an LMHR with high LDL-c, and decided to conduct my own experiment. I should also mention that I have a weakness for peanut butter, but avoided it for most of my time eating LCHF. My N=1 experiment: test the effect of peanut butter to lower LDL-c. Using Kirkland Peanut Butter (peanuts, salt) and 7-10 salted roasted almonds, I consumed 1-3 tablespoons per day with the almonds for one month. I eat meat-heavy Keto with a small amount of veg generally one time per week. Carbs in my way of eating from heavy cream, coffee, cheese, jalapenos. Overall, my TC made a large increase (~+200mg/dL) after I stopped eating veg in March 2023 Cholesterol (mg/dL) levels before the testing period: Total C (LDL-c) = 618 (483), 597, 590, 630, 583, 589 (487), 517. (I only had two tests with an LDL-c result provided.) Average TC = 589. Cholesterol after 30 days of PB/almond protocol: Total C (LDL-c) = 398 (303) (HDL=85; TG=75) Average TC reduction = 191 mg/dL Average LDL-c reduction = 182 mg/dL …and I do have a weakness for peanut butter. Fortunately, it does not cause me to gain weight. Also, our dogs are loving their new Keto raw food from Bones & Co (thebonesandco.com) of Austin, TX.

[@cathiemcginnis3997]

My dog love it too!

[@lookinin123]

Just be aware of the seed oils in the peanut butter. Nina Teicholz, Zoe Harcombe, et al have lots to say about that "stuff."

[@cathiemcginnis3997]

@@lookinin123 no on all nut butters. Nasty stuff.

[@Keto-Runner]

@@lookinin123 Kirkland PB is salt & peanuts. No seed oils. No sugars. Read ingredients.

[@lookinin123]

@@Keto-Runner Duly noted. Thanks! 👌

[@seeyouontheriver]

Great tp see the final results, even better than I expected. The downside is that Oreo cookies can now be labeled as "heart healthy" because they lower LDL 😀

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Well... if people believe that, then maybe I've contributed to natural selection...

[@hotbeefman69]

@@nicknorwitzPhD The way I freaking laughed out loud and damn near snorted at this response. 🤣🤣🤣

[@jessrx1]

Oreos are vegan. Betcha that makes it into the story.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@hotbeefman69 hehe, oink!

[@strayspark1967]

i now no longer trust what the heart association says. if they are telling you to do something, i'd ignore it. Health Care is corrupted. go research the history of the AHA, how it got started and such and you'll learn alot

[@GeneralKitten]

Glad to see an honest informative hard worker

[@rgboyte]

I watched your interview on Br. Boz, and your information was amazing. Study, learn, and share. We need more real doctors like you Nick. Have a Blessed Day. 😊

[@GameofTrees]

I was anxiously awaiting these results and they were as expected. The naysayers will ask, as my doctor did, “why would you want to have a high LDL if you can just make it low by eating carbs?” They cannot bring their minds to explore the potential that the lipid energy model in a lean individual is a superior scenario for optimal metabolic health. I predict that the process of these experiments and future experiments will demonstrate that high LDL, in the context of high HDL, and low triglycerides And other positive metabolic indicators is the best state to achieve longevity.

[@hn5460]

Longevity means "lower all-cause mortality", where is the data?

[@CL-im9lk]

It will take doctors years to wake from to the brainwashing they have received. They basically don’t have time to read and study outside of what they’re fed by the industry and big pharma has no incentive to teach doctors the right science. Hopefully patients will demand that their doctors learn the real science.

[@DrummerDucky]

The naysayers will actually say that exchanging items rich in saturated fats for cookies will steadily lower ApoB/LDL level, assuming the rest of the diet remains identical. Now, a 110+ LDL level with high amount of refined sugar is still one hell of an inflammatory tropical tempest in your arteries, the perfect breeding ground for atherosclerotic plaques.

[@richardpalacio1147]

@@hn5460 two clicks on google you can see it yourself in graph form stratified by age, after 60y it's especially beneficial. or search for longevity and average cholesterol levels in Europe for example Swiss have highest average and longest life ....

[@SolveForX]

Because it’s false. Objectively. Not eating carbs is just one of the problems. Saturated animal fats are the other significant danger.

[@kevinalanmattson]

IMHO, Explanation of the Lipid Energy Model is key to each presentation of this experiment and the related papers is key to helping us lay people get the right message. Thanks for this!!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thank you for commenting!

[@cindyblack3109]

That's hilarious! I actually had a similar experience years ago. Was on keto, my doctor said my cholesterol was through the roof. Told me if I didn't modify my diet I would need to be put on statins. The next blood draw, my cholesterol was considerably lower. Dr asked what I was doing, and I said "eating oreos". Cause that was the honest truth. I modified nothing else, and thought my cholesterol was going to be worse with this blood draw! How crazy to see this video now. I clicked on it so fast! Redemption! lol

[@MeatAndMarriage]

Mind blowing! Looking forward to the future as y’all proceed.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thank you!

[@royhightower9572]

1:14 . I am 63 years old and weigh 160 pounds. The only medication that I take is for BP. Thanks Nick for all the work that you are now involved in with Dave Feldman. I have followed Dave over the last few years because I am a LMHR. I have had to push back on my doctor for the last 10-15 years because I have resisted the statin drug to lower my cholesterol below a TC of only 250. I have fasted longer than the 12 hour recommendation to about 16 hours and minimized Fat intake so that I wouldn’t have to listen to my doctor try to sell me on the benefits of a statin. Since following Dave and now you I add some carbs in a few days before my blood draws and now he is happy. Of course I haven’t told him what I am doing!🤣 I would like to be on a study if I fit into the type of group that you are looking for down the road. One final note is that I have now had two CAC scans over the last 6 years with a score of 0.

[@Hilltopperpete]

The cholesterol in your blood is not chicken fat or beef fat or butter. There's no reason to avoid animal fats to prevent heart disease, they have been an essential component of virtually all human diets for all of human history. Your cholesterol is human cholesterol, made by your liver, primarily out of dietary sugars- even those coming from things like the glucose in things like potatoes or the fructose from... fruit- which is converted to glucose in your small intestine and then rerouted back to your liver. Excess dietary sugar is converted into storage and too much spills out of your liver as visceral fat. There is no mechanism for reasonable amounts of dietary animal fats or vegetable fats to turn into a cholesterol buildup and blockage, it's a big myth perpetuated by people who want to sell you things. We all "know" that eating too much sugar makes you fat. And that's really almost the entire story, aside from people who want to make you sick in order to sell you things. And even the mechanism that causes sugar to be turned into fat isn't inherently a bad thing as modern research suggests. Bears eat berries and honey all summer to get fat, and they fast during the winter with hibernation and USE all that extra energy storage. When we bulk up in Western nations, we no longer have periods of food insecurity and famine to actually use our extra calorie storage. Adding insult to injury, stress dramatically lowers our metabolism to prevent starvation, as the primary long-term stressor for nearly all of human history was food insecurity. But when we are chronically stressed out from a modern lifestyle and modern concerns, we still have ancient DNA calibration to take the signal that we are stressed, which signals our metabolisms to downregulate for protection. I'm literally seeing a version of this right now, my almost two-year-old recently tripped on the carpet and had a nasty faceplant and injured his teeth. He has been barely eating anything for weeks now, and his calorie intake dropped by at least 25% this past couple weeks because his mouth is in pain and he's suddenly limited in foods he can eat for short time. But he is still gaining weight at a reasonable pace like a normal toddler should. Humans' ability to store extra energy with fat production has been an essential component of our survival over the millennia. It has a purpose, just like everything else our bodies are engineered to do. Masai tribal diets consist of around 90% milk, blood, and meat- and they have almost no chronic disease. However, they also do not live long lives- in part because of the inherent violence of living a tribal and hunting life that kills many men but also because they do not easily store fat from their diets as they have no access to sugars or carbohydrates (potatoes for example are high in glucose) through farming. And any time there is widespread food insecurity, the elders choose to fast to let the children eat more. And if there is a long famine and their cattle are not producing, there are situations where everyone over 50 in the tribe starves to death, because they literally have no "cushion" to protect them.

[@Petequinn741]

Increase your fiber in take ...use psyllium husk ..4 grams a day .flushes cholesterol out of system

[@gabriellifschitz6464]

I am a 65 yo LMHR. 320 total cholesterol, 90 HDL, 40 TG. I went to my new cardiologist, someone more concerned about insuline and glucose levels than cholesterol. After doing several studies he congratulated me. I told him that my entire paternal side died young from a heart attack. The doctor calmed me down and told me to do whatever I want except five up my low carb diet!.

[@dflatt1783]

High blood sugar causes inflammation in the cardio vascular system. Cholesterol repairs this damage. There is correlation between the two. Each person is different so your doctor has to attack the most common cause first.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I mean, I'm not surprised a cardiologists is worried about a patient with TC 320 and a family hx for heart attacks. Definitely don't want your doc being too liberal... I think it's always good to have a conservative voice in the room. In the end, it's up to the patient to internalize/process the information and make their own decision

[@rdapooch]

Mind blowing ! As a 50 year old male lean mass hyper responder myself, with very very high LDL....and wanting to avoid pharmaceuticals at any cost.... I am curious, do we actually NEED to focus on trying to lower our LDL (when considered along with suitably appropriate HDL, and triglyceride levells) or is it acceptable to just ignore it, and continue to eat well, exercise well and live well? I've had a full set of blood tests, cardiologist assessment, calcium and plaque heart scans and everything is excellent...... the only 'concern'was through the roof LDL. My biggest takeaway from this.... is do we need to modify our way of eating to try bring down LDL, or leave nature to do its thing? Thanks so much for a wonderful video presentation.

[@JMK-vo8pv]

Great work, Nick. And your graphics help explain your didactic points.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

That's Dave Feldman's brilliant work!

[@rosemarylincoln2583]

Delighted you got the results you wanted, hope you manage to keep the media madness under control

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

In this case... I'm hoping for a little does of madness... it's like spice...

[@AnneMB955]

Absolutely love this! Yes, it’s turned heads. The fact we need to be dramatic for people to notice is telling. 👏👏

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

agree!

[@scotchbarrel4429]

This is exciting listening to you talk about LMHR, and the results from your Oreos study. This vid definitely helped a dumbi like me figure out all the nerd speak, so huge thanks for that. Also, well done for throwing yourself into the cage to get the ball rolling, clearly a man of courage and integrity, love it 👊😎

[@YusufMZ82]

Another absolute banger from Nick “N’Oreo” Norwitz! Big fan from Toronto Canada

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!!!

[@kwestia9872]

Lovely. Such simple study design with such an impactful result. For sure the medical establishment is going to put the study on its head, refusing to see its deeper meaning. I am curiously looking forward to your future study designs.

[@defeqel6537]

we still need the study that David Diamond suggested: give one group statins and another group aspirin, ibuprofen, or other drug that reduces coagulation, and see which group has better CVD results, and which group has more side effects, throw in a placebo group for good measure

[@kwestia9872]

@@defeqel6537 For sure, it would be helpful. But it will require a much larger budget (who is going to fund it?) and a kind ethics committee, a considerable number of participants and it will last much longer.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Only getting warmed up...

[@davidgifford8112]

Without doubt dogma driven medicine will interpret your result: low carb, keto diet significantly raises LDLc to dangerous levels and therefore cannot be recommended. Eating carbs to your energy needs may in moderation lower your LDLc and therefore is a much healthier option for heart health.

[@stimfig]

What is a dangerous level of LDL-C? @@davidgifford8112

[@sheronlee152]

What a great video. Wish my doctor would watch it. I'm 76 on BP lowering pill and have high(ish) cholesterol. I'm keto trying to go carnivore. Just had blood draw and will see doctor this week. I'm sure she will try to put me on statins. I will refuse. Why aren't doctors aware of the statin controversy? SO many videos out there about their dangers! It's tiring to keep saying no. Thanks for your experiment.

[@jaycarver4886]

Doctors don't seem to know much these days and they certainly don't keep up with new information.

[@KathyPartridge_Artist]

The problem is, statins are "standard of care" and in a malpractice suit, docs want/need to be able to say they followed the standard of care.

[@jaycarver4886]

@@KathyPartridge_Artist If big pharma wasn't lord and master of doctors and medical schools then things would be different. Funny how much influence they have and then doctors follow along prescribing big money makers to all their patients. Very much akin to the problems with regulatory capture. The system needs an enormous shakeup.

[@marygallagher7392]

I've become kinder toward my doctor regarding this topic. Due to insurance and electronic medical records, she must present the statin option. I listen to her spiel and then say "I respectfully decline." She notes it in the chart and we move on.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"Wish my doctor would watch it." send it to your doctor, along with the link to the paper below the video and the video and paper associated with my prior video on the meta-analysis of RCTs!

[@tdeloriea]

As a vendor that supports research computing at HMS I love your study. My journey to a modified keto diet with white rice in my morning and lunch meal is by far the healthiest I’ve felt in a long time. Love your science!

[@szghasem]

Big question in my mind: when did the foundation for scientific methodology of questioning everything turn into, "shut up, cuz I told you so" or "you're not qualified to ask questions". Nice to see someone qualified asking the "stupid" questions!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Outrageous ≠ stupid ;). I would say I got a few functional brain cells...

[@curiousbystander9193]

do you "got" or do you "have" a few functional brain cells?@@nicknorwitzPhD

[@Gengh13]

What a brilliant idea and the effects of the oreos was higher than expected.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

it was!

[@ikvangalen6101]

Probably “ forgot” to mention they use ammonia to “ blacken” their cookies!!!

[@mr4069]

Dave Feldman used to have a protocol like this on his Cholesterol Code website. I tried it back in the day, and it worked. Eating keto/low carb and switching to higher carbs for just 3 days dramatically lowered my cholesterol.

[@sergiopansini7823]

What was the fasting blood sugar value after the three days of high carbohydrates,please ?

[@mr4069]

@@sergiopansini7823 I'm typically 70s when eating low carb/keto. During those higher carb days it was 80s.

[@DrummerDucky]

that's because high carbs foods have low to no amount of saturated fats. What is this crazy cavalcade of commenters jeesus christ have you been reading studies published on the walls of the Lascaux caveS?

[@michelekelpin7424]

Thanks for the idea. 😏

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

The White Bread Expt! 5.5 years ago!

[@LVQ-so5th]

Your data visualizations were great and helpful. I haven't read the paper yet, but I'm hoping you measured other metabolic makers during this trial as it would be interesting to see how they were affected by the experiment.

[@Mark4Jesus]

True, it would have been cool also to have, "Oh by the way, triglycerides did this..."

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I provide some more data, e.g. prior hsCRP, insulin, IR score, LDLp, ApoB etc. didn't can a large host of panels done weekly though given the scope and intent of this particular project.

[@tlewis5901]

Dr. Nick Norwitz, Oreos vs Statin for Cholesterol Lowering" what a mind boggling blow out ! thank you for all you do 👌

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@glennbeal5710]

Just watched you on Dr Boz's channel as well. Amazing presentation! I expect to see your name a lot more in the future.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Appreciate it! And thanks for watching the video abstract! I expect you'll see more of me in the future too!

[@garyr1522]

I'm on board and share the awe. Really looking forward to this research progressing.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!!

[@tomasareas]

This is brilliant. Truely brilliant

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

thank you very much!

[@DerekFrazier2014]

My man I was listening to this while working out and you blew my mind. I gotta listen again do some research I’m not gonna take the Oreos and I won’t put that kind of crap to me but the reason why I’ve got to study. Thank you for blowing my mind for the day.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks for commenting! Definitely do not start Oreo therapy though...

[@JuvoII]

Remember this only works because he never ever eat carbs. And his liver is making alot of Cholesterol, because he lives of of fat, and cholesterol is part of that pathway of burning fat. When he starts eating carbs, even in oreos, he relaxes the liver and it stops making alot of cholesterol.He is basically showing, that his diet is so bad, that even medicine is hardly helping, and any carbs, will give a shock result, like any water, for someone dying of thirst.

[@DerekFrazier2014]

@@JuvoII ty for the explanation that help understand the process. ✌️

[@thepatternologist]

So happy to find you and the people whowho are on the cutting edge of lipid research. I have had a Choleserol test and I had a high LDL and lower tha ideal HDL but my tryglicerides are perfect at 77mg/dl. I am a bit concerned about my HDL though as ideally should be higher.

[@noreneclaburn1782]

I just came across your video. I am that classic lean mass hyper- responder. Last September at my doctor's visit, she was so upset because my cholesterol was off the charts, but my HDL/LDL ratio was great and so was triglycerides. I asked for the gene test and lipid ratio tests and she refused to order them, saying that she knew I was going to have a heart attack and I need to be back on statins, (Which I had stopped taking in March of last year). I have no doctors around me that I can trust, so I don't know what to do. I'm still 90/10 carnivore/keto. I am still off statins. I don't know where to go to get answers.Thank you for this video.

[@ubstrong]

This is huge! Kudos!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

thanks mate

[@naelna]

Amazing job! history in the making.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Hope it turns some heads and catalyzes more research

[@HarisAzakidis]

This model explains so much! It's amazing to watch patients improve all their metabolic markers in high fat/protein diets while also improving many of their clinical symptoms and then just stop because of high cholesterol and high LDL levels! We have to redefine our views on LDL, and this model does just that! Amazing work!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

appreciate the kind words :)

[@BradPuma]

Nice work and thank you for bringing alternative ideas forward. I fit in the hyper responder group but not lean mass. I am low/ zero carb and my blood work confuses my doctor. This is a good start, thanks again.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

YW!

[@craftycalley]

Brilliant! I’m a LMHR and this is what I can tell my doctor as being a recent study and take along the details of this video.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Hopefully it gets them to think. I'd also recommend sharing the meta of RCTs (see prior video and link). More robust data perhaps o more interest and more compelling to an academic phsycian

[@hollyberry7145]

Please share a photo of his face when you tell him.

[@thenext9537]

So statins + Oreos = win. Heh

[@kshamadatar4662]

Fantastic work! Thank you!!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

cheers!

[@tb8987]

@nicknorwitzPhD - love the fact you are challenging the foundations of established cholesterol thinking. Always good to question and learn. Scientific ethical questioning should always be welcomed!

[@MiniaturesAndVintage]

A huge thank you to you and your colleagues for researching this topic. I recently saw an increase in my ldl-c to 378 after being on keto for 4 months. (And my HDL went up to 83 and TG to 56.) Without the research you’re doing I would be lost at what was possibly happening. I will be continuing to watch for more of your findings for answers about this phenomenon. Thanks again!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"Without the research you’re doing I would be lost at what was possibly happening." -- this touches my heart... thanks for sharing

[@johnallen7367]

Real question is, why try to lower cholesterol? It has been demonised by people who have an interest in pointing the blame away from sugar, carbs, processed foods. Im carnivore for 7mths. Lost 70lbs, cured every chronic illness I had from arthritis to cardiovascular illness. Ive kicked my meds, first to go was statins. At 63 i cant remember being this healthy ever. My bloodwork is pristine, although my ldl is elevated (i dont care). My total calcium score, the best indicator of cardiovascular health, returns at 0.

[@sandrafrancis3631]

You will care when you have your first heart attack!

[@taylorbarrett384]

Your calcium score dropped because you lost 70lbs of fat. Carnivore diet works great for fat loss because high protein foods are satiating, their digestion is energy intensive, and the conversion of amino acids to stored body fat is laborous and energy intensive as well. You were not healed because you stopped eating carbs and sugary fruits like pineapple, mangos, bananas, etc. You were healed because you got your body into an energy defecit and stayed there long enough to eat away at the plaques, reverse metabolic disease, etc. If you want even better health outcomes, supplement your meat intake with plenty of fruits and vegetables, and make your meat choices relatively lean, with no processed meats/fats, and low amounts of saturated fat. Things like egg yolks and marbling of fat in the meat, or chicken thighs, are fine. But stuff like bacon, sausage, etc, no.

[@mereen750]

​​@@taylorbarrett384Hey, dumbo. It's me, your nightmare. Satiation comes from nutrition, not amino acids. Your body tells you that you're satiated when it has got all the nutrition it needs to work. If amino acids were satiating, eating only enzymes would satiate you, because they are amino acids. Why should anyone eat fruits and vegetables? Fruits, ok, for hydration if you want some. But vegetables? Why eat indigestible fiber with almost no nutritious value that "fills you up" because it literally does. Also, his calcium didn't went down because his body "ate" it because he was on a caloric deficit. If he continued with a high carb diet in a calorie deficit, he would have even more calcium, since radical blood sugar causes artery damage which needs to be filled up with healing material (protein, cholesterol), which then calcifies. So, no, eating in a caloric deficit won't save you from artery damage and heart disease. Why not bacon or sausages? Store bought they contain seed, which are plants, oils. Thought you liked plants :( and also sugar and lots of rock (salt).

[@kakman1958]

@@taylorbarrett384 Everything I've read - and everything my Drs have told me - is that calcium scores can't be 'undone' by diet or lifestyle. My calcium score is low (11) but if there was an intervention I could make I would. What scientific evidence do you have that calcium scores can be reversed? If you can provide them I'd also like to see scientific papers showing how a calorie deficit can eat away plaques.

[@taylorbarrett384]

@@kakman1958 Google "reverse atherosclerosis" and look for studies

[@christinaperez254]

Bravo on the choice of carbs.....i mean, if you are going to eat sugars.... Go big or go home.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

You get it 😆

[@christinaperez254]

@@nicknorwitzPhD when a similar larger study is done, consider the addition of a carbohydrate -only dietary intervention (no fat or proteins).... perhaps Skittles, gummie bears or some such?

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@christinaperez254 Haha... I think the most clinically translatable will be perceived to be "healthy carbs" ... like a sweet potato. This was a 'do not do at home' expt. But the benefit of adding Oreos as an add on is that I technically increased my sat fat too ;)

[@frederichominh3152]

@@nicknorwitzPhD Nutella is a celebrity of itself more than Oreo in Europe. It is loaded with orang-outan-killing slave-labor evil saturated-fat palm oil. It is hated by the 'elite' and loved by the masses. Using it in LDL lowering experiments would rub more salt on the wounds of the statins cult. When a junk food gives better metrics than the miracle (and immensely profitable) molecule, it shows how the metrics and the molecule are rubbish.

[@lynnbennett9007]

In your interview with Dr. Berry, Dr. Cromwell kept holding tight to the position that the high LDL is pathological and needs to be lowered so we need to fix it by adding back "a required amount of carbs", whereas, the highest LDLs are obtained by those LMHRs with the lowest BMI, i.e., the leanest and presumably the most metabolically healthy and this can imply that it is a normal physiological response to being fat adapted. But the other side of the coin is that no one in the low carb community should ignore LDL, especially those who do not fit the LMHR phenotype.

[@DF-by7gy]

Thank you, Nick! This is so COOL.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

appropriate response!

[@pobrien864]

Wow, that was totally unexpected! But my question is what did consuming all those Oreos for two weeks do to your blood sugar and insulin levels?

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

probably up a little bit. sadly didn't have access to CGM at the time. My fasting insulin at baseline in ~2-3 and I don't think it 2 weeks it would go up all that much... probably in the 'noise.' Also, carbs change insulin processing in the liver, so C-peptide would have been better marker

[@capnkirk5528]

Do not do this at home. Hmmm, I did ... not intentionally, and NOT the Oreos - damn, missed out there! - but twice sent my cholesterol sky high and twice abandoned my keto diet to drive it right back down. (I have two bottles of statins in my cupboard - unused). I think this is a lot more common than people realize. I've decided I'll take the high cholesterol.

[@ellieb2914]

I had to come back here after watching your update video to look at this again and examine the published paper. I was curious to see what your triglycerides thought of the increase in carbohydrates (of least value possible LOL). I'm a bit stunned to see that they also trended further in the desired direction (down) while HDL-C did the same (up) while in both test cases LDL-C did exactly what a doctor might want to see with some chagrin that Oreos did it better. My husband is still consuming some carbs while we both eat ketovore. I've become increasingly concerned about what might be going on with his triglycerides. This knowledge provides a little worry relief, though I need to calculate how many carbs daily on average to see where he falls exactly. Thanks for taking one for the team in order provoke many important follow-on conversations, both for individual citizen scientists and those in the medical community who aren't afraid to admit that medicine is not always settled science.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks! But it wasn’t taking 1. It was 192 Oreos 😂

[@ellieb2914]

@@nicknorwitzPhD Oh LOL! I see what I said there. Thanks for taking 192 for the team Nick!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

@@ellieb2914 Of course... although I was tapping out at that point, LOL...

[@DJM8910]

So good! Love the graphics.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Credit to Dave Feldman for the graphics!

[@randombitsofreality]

Did this experiment myself several years ago. Only three days between two cholesterol tests. On the first test I had high total and LDL cholesterol (consumed mostly meat and yogurt). Two days later, only on a vegetable diet, no animal products, the total and LDL cholesterol dropped within range. Most people don't realize that cholesterol fluctuates a lot, depending on your diet, day to day. A cholesterol test has the same significance as a glucose test, as far as obtaining significant long term data - i.e. none.

[@chloecastleton6113]

Are you saying, cholesterol fluctuates like our blood pressure? Is so, this is fascinating...

[@randombitsofreality]

​@@chloecastleton6113 I said it probably changes as fast as blood sugar, from what I've observed. That said, in addition to daily fluctuations, don't forget that fasting blood sugar may take months to drop and I am sure cholesterol reacts in much the same way. For example, my fasting glucose was over 6 mmol when I was eating carbs, a bit over 5 mmol, when I started keto and after only a week on carnivore it dropped to a bit over 4 mmol. So it's important to distinguish fasting versus postprandial levels.

[@DeviatingVapors]

your DNA controls your cholesterol. it should never be medicated +/- .. unless u have something really odd going on. the average person. should never do it. but. where is the money in that … the body controls .. everything. if you try to control your breathing. u can die. overriding automatic mechanisms. blood pressure. same. these interventions tho over the decades of medicine are amazing inventions for the emergency room. surgical use. my father was a preventative dental surgeon. I had an aversion to blood. so. didn’t follow that path. seeing results. with foods. herbs. plants. fungi. my older brother .. he explored all the drug and chemistry side of things. all work. if u haven’t given up the UPF nonsense of the western world as I did in 1990 .. when I helped reverse my dads clogged arteries. eating. a super strict healthy whole grains diet on the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s heart healthy hypothesis stuff … nearly killed him. and everyone in our family. nothing healthy about healthy whole grains. they block important minerals from being absorbed. white flour. deficient. that is why they fortified them. not as many health issues. research that time-frame. we had a sugar bowl on our table. but. white bread was forbidden. I was the first family member to take the bowl away. placed it in the kitchen. if u wanted it. u had to get up off your ass. I ruined my first set of teeth. proving. to the planet. u cannot out brush a bad diet. I wanted to keep my second set. might have been the first guinea pig. n=1. yup. I was fascinated. the concept. a second set. when I retire. that will be the research I do. how can a human being grow a third set. sharks have continuously generated teeth. rodents .. only specific teeth grow. the rest don’t. what is the mechanism. many things might be possible. when we think outside the box. being a surgeon. he knew the prognosis. horrible. so. I found a spot in the US to send him / fresh food / sunshine / relaxation / came back. a brand new man in under six weeks. never went under the knife. resolved his issues. he lived. another 28 years. doctors gave him six months to live. if he didn’t have a quadruple bi-pass. he said no to it. my family blazed some incredible trails. but. way ahead of our time. no one believed it. saying that the old x-rays were not theirs. impossible. unheard of. doesn’t compute. hahaha. diet matters. always has. always will. awesome experiment. had to watch it. brilliant title. might single handedly collapse the idiotic statin stuff. and throw out anyone even testing for LDL etc. raising. or lowering. a natural body process. is bonkers. the savvy idiot ™ … will be munching on a week old oreo before seeing his doctor. here on out. then never touching it. eating eggs and steak for breakfast. if doctors were smart. they would live longer. but. they usually die of all the same stuff the couch potatoes die of. dentists. have an extra two years. on top. so. usually live quite a bit longer. my dad. he outlived FOUR doctors. that he went to. should be a wake-up call. back then. but. no. still isn’t. 34 years later. and. looking in the mouth. tells u way more about what might be going wrong. in every other aspect of your body. if u only had one doctor. it shouldn’t be a doctor. it should be a preventative dental surgeon. refined carbs. should have been outlawed. in the late 1800s with what they knew. back then. or. rather. what they ‘ thought ‘ they knew. we still don’t really know much of anything. all their advice is busted. and. wrong. that is why people are in horrible health. but. then dentists would have gone broke. my dad. that was his goal. to have zero work in his dental practice. knew there would always be accidents. he wanted to have his patients be so damn healthy, that cleaning your teeth would be all he could earn in a day. if only. people followed his food advice. he could not have a job. doing even that. was amazing tho. a few clients. would come in. I would watch. my dad. do. jack squat. this one outdoorsy woman. for a six month checkup. woulda been a crest commercial. for sure. immaculate teeth. zero issues. OMG. still blows me away. 1983 .. that was. she. ate right. lived right. everyone else. pffft. they eat garbage. my dad. he knew. bicycles. skateboarding. cars. hockey. fights. trauma. elbows. doors. baseballs. domestic violence. will always be there. so. yeah. his vision was correct. he passed away. thankfully 2 years before C-19. would of lost his sh!t .. how wrong everyone got that whole thing. your health. is determined by what is on the end of your F O R K. and. also what’s not on your fork. cheers from the great white north.

[@grben9959]

IDK. My total cholesterol always comes back 100-120 with an HDL 33-36 (usually 35) no matter what I eat or do. It drives me nuts because they always say that my HDL needs to be a little higher and I've tried everything suggested.

[@randombitsofreality]

@@grben9959 From what I've observed, cholesterol seems to be dependent on your food, but also on your weight. When you say it's the same no matter what you eat, have you really tried testing after eating only animal products for a few days and then testing after eating only plants for a few days? I bet you haven't tried such an extreme change of diet before testing. Also, and more importantly, people with higher BMI have lower fluctuations of cholesterol. I expect your BMI to be over 25?

[@josefinecarlsgart]

Awesome work. As a Biochemist I concur! ❤

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Glycine-Arginine-Glutamate-Alanine-Threonine!!!

[@Atheria444]

This is indeed jaw dropping...and awesome!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks! Appreciate it!

[@davidgrimes4726]

Fantastic work and presentation of these amazing results Nick! Were you concerned about IRB blocking your ability to publish?

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Nope. They granted to exception quickly. If you step back on consider this without the frame of social media polarization... it's a pretty safe and sensible and ethical experiment

[@WalkingOneLegAtATime]

I’m mostly shocked that 12 Oreos are only 100 grams of carbs🤷‍♀️

[@stephenduplantier2151]

Me too! I am male, 78 yo,

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

My liver was shocked too...

[@jacobgise2479]

Great work Nick. Did you happen to check ApoB or Lp(a) at those lab draws?

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Not at every time mark, but I have historically and include some of those numbers in the paper. My ApoB sometimes is too high to measure on standard tests (>240) and peak LDLp was 3438. My non-HDL-C/ApoB ratio is off the charts high

[@tatmarberberes3578]

I love the results and the image!!!!!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks!

[@pathakkkk]

Great. Thanks for putting yourself on the line

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

You are Welcome ;)

[@frankcoffey]

The folks that were scared into taking statins over the last few decades now have arthritis and are having to get joint replacements. I refused to take them and my joints are fine and I didn't have heart failure.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Definitely a lot of controversy over statins. I'm glad your joints are doing well. No comment on the med ;)

[@Mar.Lop.]

Amazing 🤯

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Exactly! That's the correct response

[@Mar.Lop.]

;)

[@sandymorrison1400]

I've always approved of the 2 x 4 approach in life. Sometimes it take something like your efforts to make an obvious point...obvious. Thanks for this "study".

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

you get it!

[@haddadda]

Love seeing n-of-1 studies in action

[@Deanriley]

Really appreciate this work. That doctors think high cholesterol is a bad thing is the root problem; post menopausal women with highest cholesterol live longest. Sadly some will take the oreos experiment as a plus for high carbs.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I don't think they will... at least, I'm caveating pretty heavily that "Oreo binging" in not the path to health and longevity

[@jwoolman5]

@@nicknorwitzPhD- but going higher on complex carbs may be beneficial for people with high readings that they want to lower. I would certainly try that before going to statins. 100 grams of carbohydrate may not be needed. I remember a study decades ago about the effect of a daily cup of canned beans on cholesterol reading. I think there was 10% drop or so. The theory was that the fiber in the beans in particular was helpful in eliminating excess.

[@Self-Health-Evangelist]

You've got my attention. Can you do the same study but measure your oxidized LDL alongside your typical cholesterol numbers ? I think this would put another nail in this coffin. Because oxLDL is known to be more atherogenic, it would emphasize that your LDL is rising to transport energy, but the transporters aren't becoming atherogenic.

[@edlauren9434]

Dude! This is beautiful video! Thank you for such great explanation !

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Animations are all Dave Feldman... he didn't sleep for like 4 days!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Animations are all Dave Feldman... he didn't sleep for like 4 days!

[@janalderton8644]

Thank-you, Nick! This is a wonderful experiment. I seem to have become a lean mass (semi) hyper-responder by going onto time-restricted eating with 18 to 19 hours between my food intake. I started this about a year ago to reduce inflammation from rheumatoid arthritis. About 5 months ago, my liver enzymes started shooting up. My doc took me off of methotrexate. To be kind to my liver, I began a low carb (but not keto-level) diet with high protein and fat. I have no rheumatoid arthritis symptoms despite being medication-free. I don't eat meat, but I do eat lots of pasture-raised eggs, Greek yogurt, sheep and goat cheese, and vegetables (excluding the nightshade group). Fingers crossed about maintaining my remission for rheumatoid arthritis. My doc is not freaking out about my lipids yet: LDL-C: 166, HDL-C: 121, triglycerides: 75. Planning to have an artery scan. All very interesting.

[@kathymintexas1556]

The perfect headline to get us cookie loving people to take a peek! My husband wants to know why his LDL isn't 121 with all the Oreos he's eaten in his life. I'm 60 with a history of high cholesterol so I dramatically decreased my butter intake (love toast!) for over a year and my cholesterol went higher (huh???). Obviously we need more research, so THANK YOU and your team for seeking out the truth.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"Obviously we need more research" -- agree to this!

[@graybeard222]

I appreciate you putting your health at risk to promote awareness of research on LDL and LMHR.

[@Kontrabass66]

Heallth at risk?..what did you or your neighbor eat over decades? I think it was not that dangerous 🙂

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks for that...

[@Suryateja678]

one heck of a experiment. love to see more biomarker correlation to lipid energy model, specially apo b relation to keto and carb state

[@Lumencraft-]

This was a fantastic idea for a science experiment!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

I thought so ;)

[@BeHealing]

I have high LDL, and I'm lean. My doctor took a fasting blood test & told me my LDL is too high. I opted to not take statins, he said ok let's see if you can bring it down yourself. I went from eating the occasional treat, like once a week, perhaps chocolate or a croissant, to eating perfectly, which for me is just fresh food, meat, eggs, fish, veggies, fruit, yoghurt and whey. I went back a couple of months later & my LDL was higher. I laughed and knew then that there is no way that I was in harms way with this diet. I opted to stop going to the doctor. I knew it didn't make sense, for starts, I ride my bicycle over a big hill to get to the hospital here to have my blood taken in the morning to be tested. How can I possibly do that? Exercise that much without any fuel if my body isn't using fats to fuel that bike ride? If I'm fasted damn right all my body can do is use fat for fuel. I'd be horrified if my LDL wasn't high

[@japanesetranslator1122]

Good move. If you eat a proper human diet (mostly meat) and you feel great, because you will :) why all the blood work? I dont understand why we Americans became obsessed with going to the doctor for everything.. all the time. I'm 61. I will go if I break a bone or something, but I am not going to have someone who doesnt study nutrition dictate to me on how to take care of myself (many Drs are also overweight. They practice medicine, not nutrition;) eat well my friend!

[@estinhewart]

You need plant based

[@estinhewart]

“There are two kinds of cardiologists: vegans, and those who haven't read the data.” - Kim Williams, 2016 President of the American College of Cardiology

[@emknight84]

I had the same thing. I actually increased my protein and fat intake while lowering carbs and now my ldl is within normal

[@MIbra96]

Awesome stuff. I'd be interested in the ApoB numbers.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

My at peak (when my LDL was >500) was >240... too high to measure. I did not get ApoB each week of this study, but the LDL-C and ApoB are certainly correlated in LMHR, often with a very high non-HDL-C/ApoB ratio

[@MIbra96]

@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks for the info!

[@manojlogulic4234]

Liked, shared on my social. Thank you Nick.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Thanks so much!

[@richardmclaurin9988]

😂 Wonderful, Nick! This puts you in Hero status! Thank you. One giant leap for keto mankind.😮

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

LOL! I mean if Oreos are vegan then everyone should be happy... right?

[@arnoldfrackenmeyer8157]

There is not a single drug rep out there that doesn't need a change of underwear after watching this. 🤣

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

LOL!

[@casamexico7838]

The how and why LDL changes with macro composition, when discovered, will I suspect demolish the entire ASCVD/LDL house of cards.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

We can always evolve our models

[@HAL-1984]

Congratulations! You've just earned yourself a seat on the board at Mondelez 🎉

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

😳

[@matthewrank5399]

Nick, I'm 65 years old, 280 LDL, 60 Triglycerides, 80 HDL, I played football at Georgia Tech and have a master of science in management from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. I have stayed in what I'd call decent shape for most of the 40 years since my days as an athlete. I'm probably 24% body fat right now, which is high. I've been as low as 13% within the past year. I use a Bello to measure it, which seems pretty accurate. I've committed to getting back down to the 12%-13% range by May of this year. I have followed Dave Feldman for a while. I like his approach and his background very much--engineers seem to respect and understand data better than MDs, in my opinion. For a little further insight, I am ten years past chordoma surgery, which was addressed by Mayo, Rochester with a partial sacrectomy (resection of the tumor) and VTRAM (vertical transpelvic rectus abdominis myocutaneous flap). I now proudly rock a rare full moon and what I call ass-abs. Given what's known of chordoma, I doubt it's connected to either diet or genetics.. All that said, given my age and background, I find the "discoveries" around biology and nutrition over the past 15 years absolutely fascinating. As much so as the availability and distribution of data from technology advancements, which is the equivalent of stomping on the accelerator of new knowledge and understanding. A lot of "Holy Shits!" being said. I believe this benefits society more than the also huge drawbacks from the spread of stupidity, dogmatism, polarization and tribalism; although, once we figure out how important humility, objectivity and critical thinking really are, the latter negatives should diminish. For now, though, we find ourselves facing the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle too often (the amount of energy it takes to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude higher than what it takes to produce it). Anyway, I love what's going on despite the bullshit! I recall being at Tech and "discovering" there were fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fibers. I don't think we even knew there were two types of lipid proteins back then. I wanted to let you know that I love your passion and your Oreo experiment. I am also so excited about human biology and access to data, I can't wait to retire so I can play all sorts of my own n=1 experiment games. There is amazing contrast, as you know, in "science," which make the subtleties of structure, quality and the application of logic critically important; especially in something as complex as human biology. There are confounders (both known and unknown) even in RCTs. Your approach to seeking to disprove rather than prove hypothethes is exactly right. Now, I do have a few questions about the lipid energy model: If the increase in LDL flowing from the liver is a function of the absence of glucose and substitution of fat as an energy source, why does the rise in LDL only occur in lean people? Should adipose storage matter? Does HDL also rise? It seems that with greater mobilization of fat occurring (assuming I understand it properly and that happens in the form of HDL, to the liver directionally in the blood) that too would go up. Again, I absolutely love all we are learning about metabolism, heart disease, etc.; and I'm amazed at how much we had wrong for so long. Further testament to the importance of remaining humble, respecting complexities, interactions and the yet unknown, and always respecting the caveat, "you could be wrong." Keep breaking your theories and objectively seeking the truth.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

"All that said, given my age and background, I find the "discoveries" around biology and nutrition over the past 15 years absolutely fascinating. As much so as the availability and distribution of data from technology advancements, which is the equivalent of stomping on the accelerator of new knowledge and understanding. A lot of "Holy Shits!" being said." -- LOVE IT -- "Again, I absolutely love all we are learning about metabolism, heart disease, etc.; and I'm amazed at how much we had wrong for so long. Further testament to the importance of remaining humble, respecting complexities, interactions and the yet unknown, and always respecting the caveat, "you could be wrong." Keep breaking your theories and objectively seeking the truth." -- YEP!

[@WereAllThatBored]

What effect did the oreos have on your A1C and TG? Seems like this can be a great cheat code before your annual blood work.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Haha... well I don't thinkA1c would change much in 2 weeks. TG actually go down with acute treatment, consistent with the LEM since fasting insulin would increase a bit and chylomicron TG would have been disposed of post-prandial and the insulin stimulates LPL

[@slaterider]

Nick, did you experience any muscle aches or side effects from the statins during your 6 weeks? I'm curious because the muscle aches were extreme when I took them.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

See paper. Yes. Myalgias with slight elevation in CPK starting at week 3. Not unusual on 20mg Crestor.

[@slaterider]

Thank you, Nick. Great work!@@nicknorwitzPhD

[@iainneilson1453]

Great presentation, Nick. I had just watched you discussing this with Dr Boz and have downloaded the paper, which i will definitely share. A couple of questions: Firstly, although you did cover this briefly with dr Boz, would you care to say a little more about side effects, both with "Oreostatin" and the regular statin? Secondly, the Lipid Energy Model is fascinating. What else does it tell us about dyslipidaemia in general? Thanks again for publishing this amazing work. I look forward to many exciting new revelations.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Oreo gave me pretty bad GI upset, mostly bloating and increased BM volume and a small increase in frequency. Bristol mid-range, mostly. Also poor sleep and large swings in emotional state. Statin, starting at w3, gave me myalgias in lower legs and a small elevation in CPK into 300s, as reported in paper.

[@iainneilson1453]

Thank you so much for replying!

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

my pleasure! @@iainneilson1453

[@lgnfve]

subbed, great job.

[@ratisson]

Having high cholesterol isn't a bad thing.

[@hn5460]

Where can I find the data supporting your statement?

[@ratisson]

@hn5460 this has been debunked now for decades that high LDL has no proven cause-and-effect to the development of atherosclerosis.

[@hn5460]

@@ratisson Probably it is fake/biased news that you somehow took it as the truth. Show me a couple of high quality, well regarded, peer reviewed studies, published on prestigious journals, please.

[@ratisson]

I'm not a scientist and not gonna pretend like I understand this stuff kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnTZnamrlLimrZYsi=EYqZZELDuxdZ6SWQ

[@mrbigsdaddy]

Carry on Nick. Stick it to the machine.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

Carrying on...!

[@beltrams]

I am 61 and have coronary artery disease in the family, but unlike my family, I am keto and fasting from time to time, more so in the past 2 years. I just did a standard lipid panel ahead of a physical this coming week and my numbers were tg 55, hdl 60, tc, 246, ldl 179, with the latter being much elevated over the 139 of 2 years ago. My BMI is 24. I'm not quite in the category of low mass hyper responder, but almost and neither is my ldl spike as great, but it does suggest a similar mechanism at work. I'm going to use this study when my doctor tries to put me on a statin this coming week. This experiment shows how much ldl can be affected by short-term diet trends, which, in my case, included several 24+ hr fasts and very low carbs going into the blood draw.

[@richardfeuille1212]

Thanks for this. And, thanks for your IBD video.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

ya... and this was NOT good for my GI symptoms .. lol

[@richardfeuille1212]

I’d bet.

[@clintmyrick4128]

Plus, it is so much harder to hold those tiny statins for dunking in milk!

[@michaelbreitenbach4092]

Or using your teeth to scrape the the filling of the Oreo.

[@nicknorwitzPhD]

LOL