Therapy & Theology: Red Flags We Shouldn’t Ignore in Relationships

In this episode, we'll tackle how the word "submission" has been abused and what it looks like to identify if a relationship has gone from dysfunctional to destructive.
Join Lysa TerKeurst; Licensed Professional Counselor Jim Cress; and Proverbs 31 Ministries' Director of Theological Research, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, for a conversation about therapy and theology.
Helpful links from Lysa TerKeurst and the Proverbs 31 Team:
Not only is it OK for us to identify concerning behaviors and harmful actions against us, but it is biblical. Download Lysa’s free guide “Is This Normal? 15 Red Flags You May be Missing in Your Relationships” here: proverbs31.org...
Get your copy of Lysa TerKeurst’s book “Good Boundaries and Goodbyes” here: www.p31booksto...
-Share your story with our team! We’d love to hear how the Proverbs 31 Ministries KZbin channel has impacted you.
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Ready to take a personal next step in finding a Christian counselor? The American Association of Christian Counselors is a great place to find the right fit for you and your circumstances. www.aacc.net
#lysaterkeurst #proverbs31 #therapyandtheology #therapy #theology #womensissues #mentalhealth #emotionalabuse

[@AnGeLaOYA]

The problem with dysfunctional relationships is that the potentially toxic person can almost volunteer to change their behavior in a way that will keep you hopeful and keep you in the relationship. Becoming mentally strong enough and aware enough to know what authentic and real changes look like are very important or you may be volunteering to stay in a manipulative relationship because the other person who is potentially toxic is giving the illusion that you are controlling them with your boundaries and they are changing, but the changes that they are appearing to have are superficial at best and their underlying dysfunction is still there. You cannot let the appearances of the other person changing on your behalf be enough for you to stay in a relationship, unless the other person is authentically seeing you and hearing you and understanding you and responding in a way in which you need them to that is generally just showing you that they're healthier human beings for it and not as manipulative tactics. Potentially toxic people focus on exterior actions and do not want to deal with what is hiding out in the closet.

[@annatevesbanzon1359]

Thank u for reminding me.

[@sunnym163]

❤

[@gingerbryan2920]

YES!! Too true. Sad. A waste- of their own lives and their relationships. But only God can work in them and as He told me, He did not create us to be robots. We have free will. So He is trying to get us to hear Him and follow Him in the way we need to go, but He doesn’t force us or wave a magic wand and change us. We have to want it. We have to be willing to do the work He is guiding us in. And if He cant get someone to listen and want His ways, neither can we. I just have to make sure I am listening and doing the work He is guiding me in ❤️

[@KayQhosa]

All true. 💯

[@jacquelineford5503]

Amen, Amen. Lies is ALL I heard to keep me in meshed with his dysfunctional Family and our toxic relationship. I needed to love myself! Stop trying to please him and his family. Also, loved God First with all my heart, mind and soul.

[@tvcater1]

When you start recording your conversations with your husband …that’s a clear sign of being gaslighted

[@Thenextperson]

Oh Lord ❤ then he gets on the phone and deletes them 🤪

[@samsamsam82]

Yep.

[@TiffaniMichelle]

this is so true and also what my therapist said to me, I did it because I was questioning my sanity

[@laurar8486]

Me too! I changed the lock code on my phone too!

[@Missy-nw6ik]

Or he can trigger you and say awful things, then turn on the recorder when you react. I did go in his phone and delete them.

[@jld4870]

‘They refuse to acknowledge that unhealed trauma needs to be worked out so it is not acted out’. So true for so many…sadly. Thank you Lisa, Jim and Joel. May we all know grow and rest in the truth of our redeeming savior Jesus.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@oliviasudduth2883]

Man , that is so true

[@daniP4728]

The pain when you really love someone and it's falling apart is so much..so much pain.

[@berlizgonzalez6736]

Just Wow!! Husbands love your wives as God has loved his church. That hit hard. I have not found a love like this. God always brings me back to him and reminds of the love I'm worthy of ❤

[@CoreyMuller-zi8ll]

Hello 🤗

[@carlahoglund8914]

I’m 71 & never knew until I got out of my 44 year marriage that this was what I was dealing with. In therapy, I was introduced to covert narcissism, I typically don’t like labels but he hit almost everything on the description. The red flags you’re listing also is true & I kept trying to change myself to make things work. The bar kept being raised!! I was totally wiped out as a person due to what he brought up about my past to take the focus off him!! I bought that for so so long. Glad this is being put out more & more. It’s hard when they claim to be a Christian & done years in Alanon/ACA. NO Change!! Thank you!

[@DJH97]

Oh gosh. I’m right there with ya. 30 year marriage I finally had to say good bye to. Almost lost my sanity. Tried and tried to keep him in therapy. Drew a boundary or two with stipulations around counseling and what I would continue to tolerate. He continued to cross them over and over and didn’t even care in the least. It was all my “past” and my problems even though he was my past for 30 years. He would twist scripture….invent scripture that wasn’t there etc. Thank God for education and good counselors.

[@10ille99]

COVERT NARCISSISM WILL GET YOU!!!!! Lord have mercy. Better late than never! Even at 71, we will take it! You're still alive and in your right mind enough to learn and share your experience, insight and wisdom with others behind you!

[@SowingSeedsWithChristy]

Wow! 44 years and you got out and you're still standing! Congratulations! That's a win! Digest that. Pat yourself on the back and thank the Lord every day that you can now continue to make different choices with much better outcomes for yourself. Do keep yourself safe as you move fwd in your new life. I'm so glad you're getting therapy. Take it slow and as this trio said in another podcast, take some time to grieve, before you rebuild (my words).

[@veronicagrindley4450]

I'm so sorry you experienced this. I am leaving a 12 step program similar to Alanon because it can make things worse when you're dealing with these kind of people . The program isn't equipped to deal what they call outside issues. But really, they're not outside issues.

[@karendouglas8519]

I’m 74! I’m not out if this circus. God has revealed to me through circumstances that my husband is a narcissist also. No wonder I have been so unhappy all these years. I am taking in anything I can find on dealing with the abuse of a narcissist. I am having to reinvent myself by focusing on Jesus and doing everything for His glory not my husband’s. I will tell you it’s not an easy task. I envy you that you are now divorced. I am not so sure that that is right for me but I will continue to seek Gods wisdom and will. Yes even at 74 and 50 years of marriage. There is a lot of regrets for sure. I’m out of love for this narcissist. May God bless us all in the emotional abusive relationships.

[@newlinsa]

Throughout my 19 year marriage, I have been dealing with abuse; spiritual, physical, and emotional. When I was an 18-year-old kid, newly married, I didn't know what to call it. I knew the physical abuse wasn't right, but it happened so infrequently...and he was so apologetic that I stayed. I could almost bear that, if I'm being honest. It's the emotional abuse that has just completely devastated me. For years I've dealt with debilitating depression and anxiety. 2020 was especially hard being in the same house with him for months and I quickly spiraled into a very dark place. I couldn't pray or read my Bible and just felt spiritually and emotionally empty. It has taken a LOT of therapy and work to get out of that dark place. I felt like I was in a deep pit that I had to claw my way out of. So, I chose to separate in hopes that we could both work on our own stuff and we could come to a place of healing...but it didn't work. And now we're under the same roof again and I'm trying to set boundaries that he's unwilling to honor. I feel sad, alone, and... trapped. If I'm being honest, I'm terrified. All the questions run through my head. Am I making the right choice? Will I be able to make it on my own? I don't want our marriage to end, but this relationship is not sustainable for me because he's unwilling to even talk to me about anything. I can't allow the depression that keeps knocking at my door to come in again...I can't deal with that again. And I can't even begin to heal from all the trauma because I'm continuously living in it. Please be praying for me to have wisdom to know what to do.

[@robinphillips6423]

Praying for your wisdom. This was my story. Please know God loves you and deeply cares about your physical, mental and emotional safety. You are precious to God. Please reach out to your therapist or counselor or family and make sure you are safe.

[@karenabbott5974]

You're NOT crazy and your husband is sinning against you. Look up OTRS: Ongoing Traumatic Relationship Syndtome.

[@karenabbott5974]

Also, the stress from staying around his behavior keeps your adrenal glands and psyche on constant alert for the next attack and your cortisol will stay elevated. It will wreck your health and your sleep. Don't stay that long. Take secret measures to learn how to take care of yourself after you leave him. After you leave, if you get a good settlement, live frugally.

[@GirltoGod]

This is your sign. Take care of yourself by leaving and heal from this pain. It IS POSSIBLE and worth it. You deserve to live a joyful and prosperous life like God wants us to. Be strategic and don’t say A WORD about you leaving.

[@christian1172-z9e]

You might appreciate the book “When Loving Him is Hurting You”. I’m sorry you are going through this. Keep in mind we don’t have to handle these things alone. Police, pastors and therapists can be so helpful.

[@northtrader]

I'm a male listening to this. I am routinely on the receiving end of red flags 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. Issues are NEVER dealt with and just sept under the rug as fast as possible and almost always met with an emotional explosion that is way beyond what the conversational context calls for. I am often questioning whether I am going crazy. My kids have commented the fact that meaningful addressing and resolution to issues appears to be impossible. Been trying to 'hold' the marriage together for the last 10 plus years with no progress in these areas over that time. It is very discouraging These scenarios are not only experienced by females.

[@projectqueen610]

I had this same convetsation..."I am supposed to be in safety in my marriage". AND I totally felt insecure, disoriented, and confused. No worries God healed 🙏

[@renchemarais8419]

DESPERATELY NEEDED TO KNOW THIS. SO TIRED OF ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS

[@hispoiema]

My 35th and last year of marriage, I was shaking, with pain throughout my body and insomnia and couldn't concentrate. He ignored me, explained why the things I said were incorrect, told me his needs, and used me as a sounding board. No relationship ever. He constantly told me to pray for him in order to make the marriage better, citing spiritual warfare on himself - and that's why he couldn't help it.

[@elizabethschilling7402]

May the entire body of Christ become healthy and whole that we no longer hurt each other. 🙏❤️

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@kat-75]

Amen to that.

[@monicajazzyfrfr]

I felt nauseous as you read the list...and a little scared. But I know that God allowed me to find your book and 3 months later this YT page so that I can get the help I need......Thank you all for your hard work and dedication to this topic. It is so needed. 🙏🏿

[@icecreamgirlrockyroad3547]

Same

[@brewtonBridget]

Same

[@henriettehofsink8003]

" loving other without loosing yourself" well said

[@kaceyleann]

Wow, great discussion. Some manipulators are so cunning and good at disguising their true character. Your heart is blinded by “love” that you don’t realize the relationship is toxic until you’re in the thick of it.

[@alexanderbenjamin1522]

Hello 👋 Kacey, I love your words so much, like the way you put down your thoughts on note, it really sound so kind and lovely 🤗 how are you doing?

[@sharonszakacs9355]

When the police had me go to a support group it was 12weeks, and you could have a new person any week but my first week I explained why I was there. afterwards two women come up and get in my face and say and he can charm the socks off of anyone can't he? and it was like someone threw cold water in my face and I said yes he can😢

[@3rdDayPromise]

I wish I had heard this years ago when I was told by pastor’s there are no grounds for divorce. Fortunately, they sent me to their approved therapist, and she disagreed. I left the marriage and life was wonderful as a single mom for years, until life fell apart. I had carried guilt for years because “God hates divorce”, so I then felt God must be punishing me for getting divorced all those years ago. Long struggle to come to the conclusion that I wish I had been more careful in choosing a husband. God will use all my pain for His purposes. I just now understand those verses and feel like a huge weight was just removed from my shoulders! I wish I had learned more about boundaries raising my kids while coparenting, because now I am horrified watching my adult children being harmed by their father. I think it is with the intent of hurting me. So I am processing more guilt. I am so glad to see mental health issues finally being addressed by the church! That is the story God sent my storms for, just waiting for an eye of the storm to catch my breath! Thanks for sharing what God taught you in your storm!

[@daughtersofthekingministry1814]

Thank you so much for talking about this! It’s super needed.. Singles need so much help.. singles ministry is so needed and those that came from broken homes and then found Christ don’t know how to identify good relationships.. this needs to be talked about in the church

[@emmiem1354]

Wow!!! I can't even begin to describe how right you are!!!! Yes!!!!!

[@MissAbsss]

I dnt think most churches care about this.

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

➡️ More accurately, there are BILLIONS ‼️ who are from homes that weren’t “broken” who seriously need therapy! Some of them had parents who’ve stayed married for over 70 years. Having both parents in the home DOES NOT mean that the household is/was healthy. So many abusers came from extremely unhealthy/dysfunctional households/families where BOTH parents were/are living under the same roof.

[@marlyb176]

@@lemostjoyousrenegade i’m so happy that you’ve mentioned this because I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t like to talk about this. It’s easy to just point the finger at homes that are visibly broken, but a lot of people know that there are a lot of marriages that are dysfunctional and have affected their children negatively.

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

It’s true, Marly. The cognitive dissonance is real. There are so many people suffering in silence because “we don’t put our family issues “in the street.”” My great grandparents, most of my cousins, a few of my siblings, a several close neighbors and former friends had/have VERY LONG marriages (with children) and they were/are extremely dysfunctional. People would rather pretend to be happy than get divorced and be happy outside of their utterly draining entanglements. Many unmarried people have over 5 or more breakups with the same person. Some merely CONSIDER breaking up and/or endlessly bitch, moan and complain to others about their ridiculously unhealthy relationships. So pitiful it is that people are so afraid of being on their own. As the late Robin Williams said, “It’s better to be alone than with someone who makes you feel like you’re alone.” I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I enjoy my own company. I go to dinner by myself, to the park, the theater, the beach, on holiday, etc. And I have gone places with people who just don’t seem to be able to enjoy themselves…they seem to need to gossip about others or criticize practically every passersby - people the don’t even know. No thanks. I naturally repel those who like to drink alcohol in order to “have a good time” and those who “need a smoke”. Again, no thanks! I’m good. Call me “square” or whatever, but I quite enjoy living life FULLY conscious/cognizant/conscientious. Plus, I enjoy ALWAYS being able to remember the nice times outings/activities, unlike those who are under the influence of a substance (or a few).

[@colleenallison5860]

My friend and her husband spent the weekend with my husband and me. After my husband left for work Monday morning I took her aside to ask about a few incidents she observed to get her perspective. MU husband had told me I was wrong in my perceptions and he completely gas lit me. My friend told me that my perceptions were correct. My husband was being emotionally abusive during those specific instances. But she added that my husband had treated me horribly the entire weekend-not just during those incidents. I appreciated her perspective because my husband would rewrite my reality after situations in which he hurt me or was abusive.

[@zuuumbaaa]

When Lysa started reading the list of red flags I immediately recognized them from her new book, Boundaries and Goodbyes….even though in the book the reg flags are not listed under “emotional abuse”, when I read that list in the book - before seeing this video - I immediately thought: these are classical behaviors of emotional abusers/people with narcissistic tendencies. Thanks for speaking about it under the umbrella of emotional abuse in this video. Because when those behaviors consistently, that’s emotional abuse.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@annatevesbanzon1359]

Is the book good? I might buy it soon.

[@lisajohnson4744]

I was yelling, “Bingo! Bingo! BINNGOOO!” as I heard everything that has been said and done… 😆 I love affirmation!

[@princepesa]

@@annatevesbanzon1359 I started reading it last night. In ch 3. So far I have noticed from what I've read, Lysa has talked about the concepts in different youtube videos. I'm glad I bought the book though, but I think you could walk away with the concepts from the videos on here.

[@unapologeticallyauthentic2428]

Thank you. I’m going to order her book.

[@mdereus1]

I am thrilled that Christians are tackling this issue. Mental health is a HUGE issue in the world and that stems from issues that were discussed today. Blessings to all three of you as you discuss more specific issues. Thank you in pointing it always back to Jesus. From your list, I see areas for my improvement and to put healthier boundaries around some issues I am facing - drawing that line in the sand. May God bless your podcast as you reach more and more people. Shalom!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@victoria7120]

This is so important. It has brought me to tears to listen to these podcasts. God revealing the truth of what he has already begun to show me. I have been through several abusive relationships and I believe they were even worse because of me believing false interpretations or misunderstandings of Gods word. God will give you wisdom and understanding through the Holy Spirit if you just draw near to Him. He loves us so much! Thanks you so much!❤

[@sabrinafayne6641]

My husband is a meth addict and has been relapsed for 3 years. About 2 years ago I got on Facebook and looked up another man and was looking through his photos. That’s as far as it went but I had forgotten about it and my husband asked me about it and at first I denied it then realized yes I did do it. I went back and confessed that I had done it and I was wrong for doing it. Fast forward 2 years and my husband now monitors everything I do and every where I go. I am innocent of things he accuses me of but his addiction to meth causes him to have paranoia and not accurately assess things. I feel hopeless. I’ve also caught him purchasing porn and looking at porn within the last year. 24 years of marriage and relationship but listening to these videos I truly believe I’m in a destructive relationship

[@ChristianaMaru3]

I’m sorry Sabrina. May God go before you, and guide your way ❤

[@debrakrch-ur8wv]

Get out ,make a plan. Get help & support. He's dangerous

[@kris9259]

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words may break my heart.

[@phophimadaba5706]

When I start a conversation about something I am not happy about my husband will always turn it against me… bringing up something I may have done or said in the past to keep me from addressing the issues at hand. He’ll always say, I’m acting this way because you did 1 2 3 the other time. He won’t address the said issue as it occurs but only brings it up when I talk about current issues. We really can’t communicate

[@AmandaMiller-ki4of]

I'm dealing with the same thing 😢

[@gloriahorvath3778]

Sounds like my ex

[@youtube6817]

Same…

[@lindacathey9654]

Same

[@BluebonnetShelley]

Same

[@AllaKovch]

Listen to the body, Jim said. This is sooo true!

[@jodyd6163]

You've just described a narcissist and rarely will they ever be willing to acknowledge they have a problem, let alone get help.. You practically said that.

[@abriggs621]

Such a thorough list. Love this: "Is this relationship safe and is it sustainable?"

[@elainemartinez2021]

I wrote that down too. I never asked that question before. Any of the questions for that matter.

[@Tracey-Nichole]

No it's not safe and the abuser needs help.

[@warcraftaddict117]

Lisa, I am SO sorry you had to go through what you described. I have read some of your books and this makes me want to read more of your books. I went through a narcissistic marriage as well and it is a horrible thing to inflict on men or women. We need people like you and your ministry partners encouraging and planting wisdom in people's hearts, hiding the word of God in their hearts so that they don't even ENTER or entertain these destructive relationships and save themselves a world of heartache and physical ailments (I have PTSD) from it. You make a fantastic point in saying the medical issue like if you notice a lump on yourself, you would investigate your health, so not to neglect investigating our spiritual and emotional health as well. Also, to have godly counsel, a standard to hold things up against, how a healthy relationship in looking at the other's phone in what context and manner. There are so many gold nuggets here. I am so happy I listened to this. I am myself working on my biography describing what it is like as a believer, what struggles are "unique" to the believer in this situation so hopefully others can understand or at least gain some perspective when they come across someone in that scenario--how to interact and minister to them and how to be a true friend. and how we can and how we ought to behave as family in Christ to people who come through this or are struggling through this. I am very much interested in your courage group. I would love to connect with and encourage others who have been down that path or are emerging from that path.

[@tammyculp7274]

Excellent podcast and Joel really brought it full circle showing us how emotional abuse/manipulation started in the garden with the serpent.

[@LuhRen]

Recently just ended a relationship with a man who had ALOT of unaddressed trauma that was in the way of his growth as an individual and as a partner. He cheated and lied often. Luckily I was only with him 2.5 years but after what I learned in my last relationship i couldnt stick around for too long. Now im rebuilding and relearning what boundaries i need andnwhat i want out of a man and first priority is him working on healing from trauma. I also just ended some platonic relationships as well with people who could never take criticism and would always try to make it seem like it was my fault for things being the way they are. Never taking accountability for their actions, in fact they tried to escape responsibility all the time. As i got older almost every interaction i would have with them would make me feel crazy to so extent. I feel lighter now that they aren't around. I'm sad and mourning the end of relationships but I look forward to meeting new ppl

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you, friend!

[@samsamthecat492]

Sometimes people, including me, think keeping the peace as far as it concerns me is to just be quiet and let them yell at me because when I would speak up, it would only cause him to get more angry, even if just trying to explain the truth.

[@sue_c]

Dr. JM - your break down of the Bible is magnificent! Thank you! 🙏🏽

[@Cs-ry3fx]

When your significant other causes turmoil and so you never feel like you can relax around them-turmoil seems to always be either around the corner, a small incident or one misspoken word away. You have to tread lightly, as if on eggshells, just to survive. AKA the Eggshell syndrom. add in Narcissism and its a cocktail of a awful relationship. I too can write a book on such a life. Also how the church tries to keep relationships together when they should not be. and thus the children suffer and grow up and have trauma and leave the church. God through it all has sustained me and I live a emotional healthy life today without my ex. glory to God...

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you right now, friend!

[@tkandake5564]

“The battle was presented in a field that they weren’t expecting.” “That’ll preach!” Amen! That short sentence packs soooo much.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@happygilmore3706]

Yes I parked there too! 😢 wow 😮

[@LolaDiLello-wm3ud]

If you’re being treated as less than or you’re in an emotionally unsafe relationship, remember that God loves and cares about you and your well being more than your marriage.

[@rebeccamaness6756]

This is the final thing I needed to push me to let go of the toxic relationship I've been in. I think all the red flags were checked for this person. ALL of them! Even though I know so much about this topic of emotional abuse and I constantly research to gain more knowledge, this video was so helpful when put in a Biblical context that God calls me to let go of chaos and strive for peace!!

[@debrakrch-ur8wv]

Pursue peace.

[@debstrunk892]

These three are fabulous together!!!! They are so complimentary to each other and bring their gifts to the table. I love them and they have been so helpful!!!❤

[@chasg0801]

I am currently going through an emotional abuse situation with my husband of 9 yrs. He has progressively gotten worse recently to the point where I was actually afraid of what he might do in one of his explosive rage episodes that I had to take my daughter and leave. I have felt so guilty because I ignored the signs before we got married; I blamed it on stress of not having enough money, of kids, etc because I loved him to the point where he was my answered prayer. I realize now that I should have taken a step back and really thought about what I would accept and what I wouldn't. Now I know what I will tolerate and what I won't tolerate any longer and if this cannot be achieved, we will go our separate ways. Life has certainly not turned out the way I thought it would but God continues to be faithful and teach me to lean on him for all things. I'm so thankful for this podcast and for the wisdom given to help me to see what God truly wants for me. I am praying for peace and restoration of our relationship, but if that is not possible, I pray that God will show me the way to go next. Thank you for your wisdom.

[@danilaroche1156]

I feel for you. God will fill you with so much purpose, peace and joy that whether ur spouse is with you or not, won't matter as much. Getting to that place will take time but it will come. Stay in the word and the fellowship of believers.

[@deb9784]

Thank you for sharing your story! So often the true colors are hidden and so hard to spot! I am so glad that you are pressing into all that the LORD has for you! It's HIS promises we hold onto anyway! I've hard very dark relationships in my past as well (coming from parents who had a strained marriage), and trying to find a way through, caused me to seek the LORD with all that I am. Check out Hosea 2. HE promises to use the Valley of Achor (trouble) as a door of hope! So often when I expected HIS judgement, instead HE brought me a word of HOPE! Romans 8:28 HE works all things together for good! It is my prayer that a separation can produce repentance and change! But reconsiliation starts here! GOD bless you on your journey, dear sister in CHRIST! 💞🙏💞

[@mariangelasanabria9049]

Don't blame yourself or feel shame, that is the devil. The gaslighting, masks they wear, and lies make it impossible for you to see that you're with a narcissistic personality unless you have experience. I had a decent relationship with the Lord from a child, but narcissism is a very powerful demon that God in his Providence allowed you to encounter for your own spiritual development. Please keep your daughter from harm, I separated, went back, and had more children, but my eldest daughter is now mentally handicapped from the trauma. Please don't move without the Holy Spirit. I eventually met a man who cared for me for 6 years like a pearl before God took him to be with him. I wouldn't trade those 6 years for any other man on the planet. Trust in God's Will and his Love for you and your daughter. He will be your spouse. He cares for the orphaned. "You give and take away.. My heart will choose to say, Blessed be The Name"

[@danilaroche1156]

You should leave. I didn't say divorce but I'd separate.

[@barbarastewart8066]

Wish I had a friend like Jim😊. No matter what church I attend, how long I'm there, I very seldom walk away with friends. Although I do enormous work in the Vineyard, I just find myself with a few. Single and female of color is so hard.. But I keep going. I've been in the mental health environment for 50 years and people more so now, especially church are most in denial. Blessings PS: praying for a mentor, a bold and unafraid mentor.

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

Hello, love. You don’t need a mentor. Honestly, you don’t. I suggest you be still and KNOW. You have intuition. When we listen in the silence, we tap into the Source of wisdom. No one holds/has more wisdom than another. Some of us are simply more drawn/compelled to turn within. Let those who have ears hear. The Truth has a feeling tone. You know when you get that feeling of “Something told me that something was off about that (situation/person/place/thing/condition).”? Or.. “I had a strong feeling that I was correct about that; it turns out that I was spot on!” I suggest though (if you feel so inclined) reading Joel Goldsmith’s The Thunder of Silence, Leave Your Nets and/or Spiritual Interpretation of Scripture. Additionally, you may find great value in listening to recordings of Joel Goldsmith speaking to his students. ➡️Search 🔍 The Infinite Way’s channel on KZbin. “Let God Mold Our Desires” is one of my personal favorites. Much love to you from San Francisco. 🌉♥️💫

[@fortnitegod2236]

Walking in uncharted territory is always a little scary but well worth the effort to become better.

[@suzannecoultard3673]

I FOUND MYSELF CHANGING AS A HUMAN BEING WHEN MY BOUNDARIES THAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AD NAUSEAM WERE IGNORED WITHIN THE NEXT 5 MINUTES TIME AND TIME AGAIN. I HAVE ALLOWED MY SARCASM TO BECOME WEAPONIZED AND NOT BEEN VERY NICE ABOUT IT. WHEN I SENSED THIS IN MYSELF I REMOVED AS THOSE PEOPLE FROM MY LIFE BECAUSE I WAS NOT ABLE TO AFFORD THE PATIENT OR THE EMPATHY FOR THAT SITUATION. I WILL ADMITTEDLY SAY I HAVE A SHORT FUSE BUT I ALSO COMMUNICATE MY BOUNDARIES VERY CLEARLY

[@bronwynsimons7028]

Wow❤ That truly was the most insightful Bible induced discussion on emotional abuse. My core is shaking. Thank you so very much y'all for allowing God to use you to educate the ashamed, broken, emotionally abused Christian. I am the Christian wife of a Christian covert narcissist Sad but true story

[@robintrentham-qg1no]

The Bible says for a man to love his wife like he loves CHRIST JESUS

[@zandramorgan440]

Yes removing oneself, eliminating, ending, terminating, is the only way to access Peace.

[@noelynkoutalo6174]

Thankyou guys for this podcast. The Biblical insights by Joel was uplifting and a great encouragement to me. God Bless your great program.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're glad you enjoyed it!

[@susannagiesey9657]

I prayed for a season of healing in family relationships and then saw this video. So helpful!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Susanna!

[@amberneal9518]

I'm so glad I found you guys exactly on point in my opinion about eating the forbidden fruit and God not wanting us to bear the difference if knowing good from evil. I agree 💯 percent.

[@elizabethnajjar1375]

Thank you all for sharing! This was Bible study and therapy session warped into what that felt like a heating pad on a tired muscle! God does care about every aspect of our lives and wants the best for all of us!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Elizabeth!

[@precious4111]

Like what you said in the beginning, need to go back after listen to all of it. Definitely my spouse has issues. Now been in a nursing facility over 2 yrs and still will yell at me and tell me I'm wrong. Can't walk, pray for him to be healed but God needs to get to his heart first. Now my older child wants these boundaries and it's more like controlling. Hate it. Wish I could get counsel because all this has wreaked havoc. I'm not perfect but no real support during a horrible time. Spouse told children that he never told me......etc.

[@lck2978]

If you're reading this, please pray for me/us. I'm only 6:25 into this episode and it's creepy/painful how accurate it is of my situation. Thank you for your ministry and for having Jim & Joel on with you! I believe that shows humility and a willingness to vet what you say through licensed academic professionals.

[@lck2978]

Wow, just finished the show and what a spiritual & emotional gold nugget this has been! I've been dancing with dysfunction for so long and I'm so deep in the cave, unable to see and sort things out. But, this has brought just the slightest glimmer of hope that I've so desperately needed. And again, I love that you have a biblical scholar and a licensed counselor on the show with you. It all equates to bringing such profound wisdom!

[@Mommii517]

After 30 years of marriage my husband and I are separated because I am no longer willing to allow his emotional abuse. My pray is that his relationship with God will be strengthened and after that we'll see. I definitely have peace and am grateful for it. I'm so thankful for learning about boundaries. It's an ongoing work and Therapy is vital.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend!

[@KM-kn6nu]

Just want to point out at 31:02 after Joel said how satan was gaslighting and being passive aggressive (emotionally abusive) to Eve. He then says "Why didn’t Eve just leave?" (to which he DOES answer his own question - a total mic drop btw! 🎤lol) But I’d also like to add on, "why didn’t you just leave?" is a common (victim blaming) thought and response said to people in emotionally abusive relationships. Like Eve, an emotionally abused person’s truth is being distorted and they might not know they’re being manipulated 😕 So to anybody who was abused and is beating themselves up for not leaving sooner - please give yourself Grace. (Btw this is NOT me picking on Joel for asking that question!! - Joel you’re great! lol) Anyways LOVE your podcast! You guys are awesome and do an amazing job! All the best 🤍🤍

[@lanieanderson6480]

I’d love to hear them do an episode sometime about when you have difficult or destructive relationships with parents. That has some difficulties and differences from other relationships or those with spouses.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for your suggestion, Lanie!

[@joyceallsopp8209]

Same here. I believe my most difficult relationship to be with my mother

[@jeannemariemues6854]

There are thousands upon thousands of adult children estranged from their parents now... all claiming they've been abused. That would be a dilemma to conquer in this generation.

[@karateana7593]

This has been the most helpful advice/council I have come across on this subject, I have been having a terrible time with all that you've been speaking on and have reached my limit, I cant fulfill my side if he isnt fulfilling his, I dont respect him because his behavior is not respectable, I can't honor someone who is dishonorable. Thank you so much for yr help.

[@joannascarpo8205]

Thank you so much for your guidance, your interpretation of God’s word. I am thankful you go back to the original words as the translations over time have changed the meaning through the word selection. 🙏 Today is my first day on your channel as I am half way through your book Good boundaries and Goodbyes ❤❤

[@martimoore4411]

Thank you! In the middle of an emotional unsafe atmosphere. This is so on target!!

[@RachelSDay1982]

It's good news to hear Jim give his story of "change is possible" for some of these destructive tactics used by many "Christian" men to control others.

[@Bike4Life231]

Lysa, thank you so much for adding the part about what a relationship SHOULD look like, and what so many women expect and hope for in marriage. Yes, my heart longed to be seen and heard and thought of as beautiful. And the ability to stand before someone I loved completely open and vulnerable without fear of reflection, feeling completely safe. I just cried when you shared that. That is what I longed for so much in marriage but was never able to achieve, even after continually opening myself up throughout my marriage of almost 20 years. Now, finding out that I was living and loving someone who was not capable of empathy or true love, who was hiding under loads of hurt he refuses to address from childhood. Someone who was supposed to love, honor and cherish me, but instead was so hurtful emotionally, verbally and financially, and was that way to our two children as well. I am now going through a very intense and traumatic divorce with him. It is the most difficult thing I have ever had to go through in my life, but I am looking forward to the freedom and safety it will bring myself and my kids. Thank you for being so real and honest, and for including these two amazing gentlemen in your podcast. You all give me hope and understanding I never had before.❤

[@elizabethy2912]

God Bless you. I'm separating after 33 yrs. Just recently realized he was a covert narc. We care for a disabled adult child, so I'll stay married, but I've put up boundaries, and told him he needs to leave. May God protect you and uphold you as you go through this terrible process of divorce.

[@EmilyLawson-v9w]

Definitely next book!!

[@Thenextperson]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ Y’all don’t know how happy it makes me for people to actually know this exists ❤ I have nobody in my life or around me that has a CLUE ❤ now, I literally have to endure this until my children are older😢

[@janeeyre8241]

Fabulous interview and unpacking of this very delicate and potentially devastating relationship dynamic. It has been my burden and you spoke healing and validation into my soul. Thank you 🙏

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad you're here!

[@melilinda7302]

Yes to heal the broken pieces,you can do only yourself,not waiting to heal the broken pieces from another person,you should heal yourself,sending love,light,happiness all of you! ❤️ 😘 🙏 😇

[@heathermbcon]

Omg you just said so many things that align with what's happening in my life. I love him, but can see this all happening in my reality.

[@allisonb.8492]

This is soooo good. Lysa has brought me so much awareness to this topic!! Thank you, Lysa for being so real and sharing your darkest moments. You are changing us for the better.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Allison!

[@lordjill58]

Both parties in the relationship need healing and acknowledgement of their own brokenness. Grace and mercy and patience and prayer heals. Walk humbly with our God.

[@bettymakin5842]

What if the destructive relationship is with your mother? I’ve set boundaries, and our relationship has crumbled. So sad as she is in her 80’s. The pain of not having a relationship with her at this stage of life is hard to bear.

[@emilykirkman8468]

I’m in the same situation!! My mom is a little younger but it’s still heartbreaking 💔. I think it’s up to you but for me I’m minimizing contact as much as possible.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're stopping and praying for you right now, Betty.

[@kshaw9179]

I'm in the same situation, with my dad in his 80s. Terribly sad.

[@darlenegeorge5204]

Does she have senility

[@joyceallsopp8209]

I'm in the same situation, I finally hit 40 and it's at an all time extreme. My mother is 65 this year and seems to have got worse in the last 12 months. Her mother was vile towards me for years too

[@elishavahwilson1601]

Obeying God might look like we May have to pursue a peace that the relationship may not be fostering. Thank you.

[@awalkofgrace6703]

Thank you so much for this ,it is really came at the right time..a very balance discussion based on the word of God..

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@sharonszakacs9355]

I'm glad you said that about quoting scripture my ex had a lot of verses memorized and he seemed to see the right ones to let me know how I was wrong in so many ways

[@kennedymueller1788]

Sometimes when a person realizes how abusive their relationship has been, there is NO QUESTION what needs to happen next which is to leave!!

[@constancematsimela2609]

Thanks for this truth, especially in the house of God, where things are usually swept under the rug! Our God is not a God of disorder! Thanks again guys...

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@zenarodriguez23]

Im grateful for podcasts like this one, it was good to listen, a clear transparency during the conversation. It was a confirmation that I am on the right path. Removing my presence is also peace because it prevents chaos (when is needed). “Honor God with your decision”, I’m keeping this one ☝🏼

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad this helped you!

[@sherryclark8121]

Thank you for presenting this in Biblical Principles so that people can sort through the abusers twisted manipulation against Biblical Principles...

[@martimoore4411]

Last speaker is brilliant! Addiction and control in relationship.

[@elainesmith6440]

I am in this kind of situation now. Praying for wisdom. All of the above. Every single statement and pattern and it is worse every year.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're praying for you, Elaine!

[@elainesmith6440]

Thank you so much. I am praying for wisdom!

[@tmo.48]

This comment is to Joel: near the end at about the 49:40 you were saying....discredit our ??? it sounds like emaryoday. I listened several times and just can't get it. But what you said at the 18:25 really stopped me in my tracks!!!!!!! It was Sooooooo mind blowing ♡♡♡ I thank you for that and I thank ALL of you for such an enthralling video.

[@prophetesskrishacheatem-cl8666]

Thank God for her Grace and Mercy is New Every day. FORGIVENESS IS THE KEY.

[@melilinda7302]

Don't also deny narcissist -empath relationships,they will blame you for everything even for things you didn't do,trauma bonding also please be aware

[@daleenreed9560]

Absolutely. Once you sense you are in a relationship with a malignant narcissist, literally get out because it only gets worse. If you can get them to discard you first you will be better off, otherwise they will feel the need to monitor and punish you forever - it starts with the 'smear campaign' and their isolation of you, so you have no support. They turn everyone you know against you, paying them if they need to. They have no conscience, no empathy. It is entirely about them and their need to hold the 'power' and 'win'. They will not take no for an answer and will over react dramatically, flying into rages, stalking you, and rewriting history to others about you in a way you could never even recognize. Mine has manifest physically into chronic pain to the degree I can hardly walk from one room to another. There is only one way to break a trauma bond. I had to read Neil Anderson's book, The Bondage Breaker - twice and do everything in it. There is only One chainbreaker strong enough to come to your rescue when that happens. His name is Jesus Christ.

[@mariethompson6711]

This explains my marriage exactly!! We have now been separated for three years

[@terriwhalen3618]

Thank you for this insightful video. I am learning to take all my situations to God because I simply need Him and He knows best for my life. Currently I had to let a friend go because of the violation of my clear boundaries being crossed. It is always difficult when I have to let someone go, but I am learning to be self aware and after much prayer, it has to be done. My motto now, is if an individual doesn't respect you, likes you for who God created you to be, shows sincere empathy, listens, ect., these are red flags and don't get better with time. Let us surround ourselves with Godly individuals, folks who want the best for us, leads us to God, is kind and respectful. Not a lot to ask for in a relationship. Thanks again for your efforts in helping with your videos. They are saving lives!😊

[@lemostjoyousrenegade]

Well said, Sweetheart. VERY WELL, indeed! 🎯♥️💫

[@projectqueen610]

Oh my..This is MY redeemed story . I did not find these verses about peace and seperation...and I Ipleaded for my safety and mutual love and would not return without it.

[@jacquelinesheehan5748]

So good! Thank you all.

[@joycebates6411]

I am presently reading Good Boundaries and Goodbyes and also Leslie Vernick's The Emotionally Destructive Marriage. Still having trouble knowing exactly what boundaries to set. He hasn't made any of the changes he has promised. He's been supporting his secretary financially for years...I've been paying for (his business) life insurance for which I am not the beneficiary. She is 37% beneficiary. My husband professes to be a Christian. He has said, with tears in his eyes, that he is just looking forward to the Lord saying "well done thou good and faithful servant." I have recently been convinced that he has strong narcissistic personality traits. And one last thing I chuckle about: my husband is very proud of his humility.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend!

[@mb1015]

What you have discussed about passive aggressive, and divorce, has been so helpful to me. Thank you

[@janeotto4132]

Not all hurt people, hurt people. Some have grown and done the work to stop that destructive behavior. It doesn't matter how often the toxic behavior happens, it matters if the toxic person can see what they are doing and change their behavior when they are confronted. God gives us a process for reconciliation. Repent, ask for forgiveness, Contrition and Restitution . If this doesn't happen, reconciliation with a toxic person is unsafe. We are to be their helper. Helping is doing right by them. Sometimes doing right is opposite of what your partner wants. Doing right can be bringing truth to the light.

[@JanaeSarah]

Ya'll just blew my mind. I'm so thankful for this series and all the content you put out. Love the Biblical interpretation by Dr. Joel and the way Jim, Joel, and Lysa break it down and show me how to reorganize my thinking based on the Scriptures!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching, Sarah!

[@lindahall1083]

I think that part of our situations of being in abusive relationships is that we are made to feel like we have nowhere to go and no one will fully understand our situation. Reality is that just about anyone we know would be willing to take us in until we are on our feet again. I was taken in by a cousin that I didnt really even know well. God put me there. My cousin was salve to my soul. My husband of 34 years was a narcissist who was totally disabled and had a sexual addiction. I left 17 years ago. He died 5 years ago (progression of the disease). I learned to forgive him, but some of the junk comes back now and again. Jehovah-Rapha (healer) helped me through those around me.

[@PoetryOf]

Thank you for this!!! I wish I could elaborate, but I really REALLY needed to hear this. ❤️

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@SoaringAboveItAll]

Great talk! Super helpful with boundaries! Looking forward to Lysa’s new book. I would also like to add financial, social and spiritual abuse are also forms that go unnoticed/unmentioned a lot.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Rachel!

[@MomDocTravels]

This is so helpful!! Thank you all for pouring out and discussing a hard topic with truth and grace!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Zoe!

[@GLORYWIELDERS]

This is one of the most powerful video conversations on this I have heard. These are wonderful revelations, and it is a great tool for me to give to my!! Thank you!! 😘👍🤗🙏🕊️❤️‍🔥🙌❤️

[@DahliaBrynn]

Not only did my husband use these verses to demand obedience, but he also used it to manipulate me into allowing him to have a second wife, because it says “wives”, not wife. And he always ignored the submit to each other. And his version of “loving” me was beating me down (emotionally) into submission. Obedience was his goal. In everything.

[@danilaroche1156]

He's got balls! He's demonic. Leave.

[@DahliaBrynn]

@@danilaroche1156 I did 💜

[@GirltoGod]

Thank you so much for this information and your professional perspectives. I NEEDED this sign. I’ve been thinking to myself for quite some time how would God feel if I left this relationship? Would he feel like I gave up ? or would he be proud of me for honoring my needs and leaving someone who was toxic and not willing to take responsibility or change. Yes! Now I know I am making the right decision. Thank you so much!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, Brittany!

[@jeanhoffman5676]

Married to a Sex addict, intimacy Anorexic for 42 years. He is in recovery. His dysfunction has affected how I deal with the world. I am working on us and me. A whole new paradigm shift for my life. I think I should write a book.

[@prophetesskrishacheatem-cl8666]

Great Teaching .

[@nasawonderwoman1427]

Love this series, really helps. A great talk and love all three perspectives.

[@erinjaa6653]

Thank you so much for this talk. It was very affirming and healing to listen to.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@jwolsk2]

Please keep having conversations about this. It's very helpful. God bless you!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@tamigiblin3807]

Thank you all! I feel Hope with direction. Even if this Marriage doesn't work out. ❤

[@johannaboman2780]

I highly recommend for anyone who thinks they may be in a destructive relationship to read The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick. She takes a hard walk through relationship, God's view and dispels lies we may believe that keep us stuck.

[@GaryKemple]

Right mom good job thnk u guys we tolk are problem today think God my pain is gone 😲