What the Bible Says About a Marriage Falling Apart | Therapy & Theology

In this episode, Lysa TerKeurst; Licensed Professional Counselor Jim Cress; and Proverbs 31 Ministries' Director of Theological Research, Dr. Joel Muddamalle, open up God's Word to find biblical Truth, hope and answers as they discuss the hard realities of a marriage falling apart.
Helpful links from Lysa TerKeurst and the Proverbs 31 Team:
- Download the FREE Listener Guide for this Therapy & Theology video here: proverbs31.org/read/resource-...
- Get your copy of Lysa TerKeurst’s book “Good Boundaries and Goodbyes” here: www.p31bookstore.com/collecti...
P.S. Looking for something specific? Fast-forward this video using the minute markers below!
0:00 Intro
0:48 What is God's intent for marriage?
4:06 What are biblical grounds for divorce?
12:01 Unpacking material and emotional neglect
15:15 Taking time for wisdom and healing
24:13 Taking steps, not leaps
29:26 Pursuing wholeness
Ready to take a personal next step in finding a Christian counselor? The American Association of Christian Counselors is a great place to find the right fit for you and your circumstances. www.aacc.net/
#lysaterkeurst #proverbs31 #proverbs31ministries #marriage #therapy #theology #therapyandtheology #whenrelationshipsfallapart #boundaries #whenarelationshipisfallingapart

[@dianairaheta1712]

As someone who was married to an emotionally and spiritually abusive man, trust me when I say...we are not running out of our marriages for frivolous reasons. I'm talking daily rejection, abandonment, isolation, and verbal abuse as well. I don't think we need to be so afraid of talking about emotional abuse...because, especially in faith communities, we ARE faithful. We ARE committed. We ARE forgiving. And we stayed for FAR too long, in the hopes of a miracle.

[@dianairaheta1712]

With that said, I am so happy and thankful to that you are talking about these topics. It's so desperately needed!

[@no_reservations25]

I'm going through something very similar to your situation. I've been trying to rack my brain thinking what am I doing wrong, every argument and every disagreement is my fault, every decision I make gets turned against me, I just can't win. I love him but I can't keep living like this.

[@shollarose7158]

​@@no_reservations25 I am so sorry for your experience. I can relate as I endured the most intense emotional and psychological abuse for over 2 decades. I prayed and fasted and loved harder but things only got worse. Finally I got to a point of no return and I asked for a divorce. He filed super fast and he remaried within a year. God has been healing me and pouring His love, peace and rest over me. It is not His will that we endure abuse. It damages us and also causes physical illness not to talk of psychological and emotional. I am dealing with all these. God will not force human will and we cannot change anyone who chooses not to change. Also, nobody will rescue the person being abused, it is up to them to recognise their value and put a stop to it. It is a personal decision. The God hate divorce verse has been taken out of context and used for condemnation in the church. I received support outside of the church as the church failed to help me. It made me stronger and drove me closer to God. I pray for all of God's best for your future.

[@no_reservations25]

@@shollarose7158 my heart breaks for you and anyone in that (our) situation. I am thankful it's only been 8 months because I still have my health although I suffered with extreme depression (which he used against me too). I agree with you totally, the church keeps quiet about abuse and neglect and expects us as women to be martyrs and to keep our voices silent. I'm done being shut up by my husband or the church. Blessings to you my friend 🙏❤️

[@reneemontanez112]

❤

[@Webbgurl2000]

It is evil. destroying the person you swore to love and care for by driving her insane with lying and cheating.

[@GwenMotoGirl]

The lying and cheating and betrayals are terrible. I went through it, too. Don’t accept that insanity! You are a child of God! You’re above that insanity.

[@watchwoman16]

Yes. The cheater will answer to Jesus because they betrayed Him as the third person in the marriage.

[@ramtuffmama8060]

Yes. 43 yrs, putting a stop to it now.

[@ammthen]

The pain of being unloved and abused by the one you committed your heart and life to Is so very horrible to try to live through

[@trudycurran2755]

@@GwenMotoGirl 😊

[@kayakins3051]

This is one of the best teaching. Churches should talk more about abuse in marriage. There is more to it than just cheating.

[@annabanzon313]

Can you divulge more?

[@maryisisphillips]

Before any church goes marrying anyone, they should learn the signs of abuse so they can help their children if things turn south - couldn't agree more.

[@ladyj5682]

I agree with the church needs to do more and have more qualified counselors trained and not put a person losing their sanity before consequences of separation or divorce. I think people who have grounds stayed longer than they should and those with no grounds just refused to work it out

[@jordanruth0809]

I definitely agree. This is the first video I’ve seen on marriage.

[@noname-ye7zj]

​@Lady J, yes, "qualified counselors " Some counselors take advantage of the situation and end up with the married woman after she gets a divorce. I've seen it happen.

[@r.e.b3102]

That last minute hit me hard. That was when I felt freedom too in my divorce. I did EVERYTHING and more to stay in the marriage, because I took my vows seriously. Eventually it was time to release him to God. Only after releasing him to God, I realized how devastating the damage was and I thanked God for freedom and for releasing me from a marriage that would have undoubtely killed me. It killed my spirit and broke my body, it was now slowly but surely destroying my mind. Spiritual and emotional abuse are devastating. Thank God for freedom, healing and second chances.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend.

[@MoJimJon]

This is my situation now, not only me but also my son,

[@ElRoi68]

I can't even see myself getting there. For SO many reasons. Jesus please come!

[@samsamthecat492]

This is happening to my sister right now. Her husband is an alcoholic and seems to be a narcissist as well.

[@r.e.b3102]

Praying for everyone in that spot. I am far removed now but goodness it was horrible when I was in the midst of it all. Once you are removed from the narcissist and are safe, EVERYTHING changes. You start to come back to the you you knew before and even enhance that version of yourself with wisdom and strength. God is so so good to the brokenhearted and He always helps us rebuild. He is a God of second chances, a good Father.

[@Aliciabpd]

I love how you explained forgiving 70 x 7! I wasn’t able to forgive my husband for the things he did, so I spoke to him and said I tried everything and I no longer have anything to give. I told him that I needed space and he gave it to me. We are in the same house but we are in separate rooms. Our children have told me they feel it has been better because we aren’t fighting. I have taken my time in this separation to pray for my part in the marriage problems, read scripture, watch and listen to these types of messages, exercise, etc. God has made me realize what I contributed and how I hurt my husband. Recently I have confessed to my husband how I failed him, how my expectations of him were unfair and asked him for forgiveness. We are still separated but I feel we are communicating better and I have faith God will heal us 🙌🏼🙌🏼

[@framboise595]

@Aliciabpd Good. So now next step : 1 Peter 3 " how I failed him" Thanks for acknowledging that it is US women who always fail our husbands and marriages fail because of us and no one else. Because GOD gave us to men for their joy , their well being . So shame on us for playing the victims whn we are utterly guilty of not being the good submissive wife God wants all women to be .

[@LorenasChesed1beads]

My husband abused drugs and alcohol, left me over 10 times. I kept taking him back. The 11th time he left, he stayed away 6 years. I sat at my lord's feet through all this prayed and fasted. I had support from my sisters in christ. Then my church split up, and my mom had a stroke. All at the same time. After attending classes to heal, things got easier. Then my husband showed up at my door homeless jobless. Against the advice of focus in the family I took him in, he was still on meth. I had to help him. It wasn't easy. But now he is back in church, involved in ministry and working. I truly had to die to self. Marriages are never perfect they take a lot of sacrifice and love. Not the love of the world but the love of christ. Glory to God it was all him, not me.

[@kerrychurches1285]

❤

[@GTGV1992]

Wow sister, glory to God in the highest for your testimony. You will receive a crown of righteousness!!

[@janethanson1793]

This is Amazing... God Bless you so much

[@Michael19283]

Wow

[@lisajohnson4744]

I am very happy for you, but I do hope you still have room for compassion for those women who were NOT able to make it work. Because it doesn’t always happen.

[@KittyClark4433]

Its been 4 yrs & i still wrestle with divorce after 38 yrs. Didnt want it but the other party didnt see working on it as an option. I cannot say i dont bear any responsibility due to reacting badly out of my own pre-marriage trauma. I am thankful tho that God has walked me thru seeing that so i can bring that to Him for forgiveness plus get the help i need to heal from that. I still miss my "intact" family & probably always will. But still God is good, He is there, I am not alone, i am not abandoned.

[@BrendaHernandez-yb4ml]

It’s comforting to know that what my heart and soul knew to be right is validated on this episode. I didn’t want to end my marriage but I couldn’t sustain it on my own

[@Mea_Davis]

I definitely feel you. ❤🙏🏽

[@dottiemoore9112]

Wow you said exactly my situation. It takes 2 to work at a marriage. 1 person cannot hold on to a marriage without going insane or loosing who you are!🙏

[@lindaratzel7835]

Absolutely amazing information! So very comforting for anyone going through a divorce and not really understanding why this is happening. I loved my ex-husband very much (and still do) and REALLY wanted the marriage of 24 years to continue until death. A counselor's diagnosis of covert narcissism with passive-aggressive behavior on the part of my husband was the most painful and difficult thing to understand. Watching your channel has really helped me to come to peace with the decision to divorce for both my mental and physical health. Thank you so much to all of you!!

[@melanieleon3070]

I did too. I very much dislike being in this position that I'm the one that is breaking my vow before God.

[@Charity-vm4bt]

This is a common diagnosis lately. It is an excuse made by men. But unless there is adultery, Jesus did not permit it. Men of his generation are labeled "narcissist." That is a faddish label Look deeper, if you can. This is becoming an excuse for men of his age to leave you in poverty and bereavement.

[@BeingVulnerable]

Take heart dear one “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭33‬ ‭NIV‬‬ (The whole verse is eye opening from the lenses of heart hurt and pain )

[@GodsChildrenOnEarth]

Same here. I was deceived by the ex. Said he was Christian and went to church with me a couple times, but is an atheist who lied to me about believing in God … lied about many other things that he KNEW were deal breakers. Turns out he narcissistic and his mother was a malevolent narcissist ( she died recently March 23). He and his mother lied to police and the court and tried to put me in jail. The ex tried to kill me ( strangled me) and everything he accused me of, he did. I prayed that God deliver him and touch his heart for a long time. Then he tried to kill me and I left. It is the best thing that has happened to me! I’m happy and trust God 100%. God has never let me down.

[@tnj4ever]

Have you all prayed for reconciliation and God to change their hearts?? There's plenty of stories out there of God changing their hearts and totally transforming people.

[@kamirichardson4535]

Amen, amen, AMEN!! Too many churches make women feel as though they have to stay in abusive marriages. Mental abuse is REAL, and it can kill the one being abused. I am so thankful that Lysa & her team are speaking out!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching, friend!

[@rogerringold616]

Men too are imposed upon .." If you love your wife right.....all will be Disney World and Its the mans fault wives are horrible "...are the messages I heard most. As if there is no choice/ decisions....by wives. Back sliding/ remaining there is a choice.

[@rogerringold616]

How is it the 1st human abuse is SKIPPED OVER. THEwoman has the helpmeet gift....in new testament same word is used gor the Holy Spirit ...a helper/comforter/teacher....She abused ADAM WITH THE GIFT/ POWER/TALENT/SKILLS from God....For SATAN AGAINST GOD AND ADAM..... WHO DOES IT BENEFIT AND FURTHER DISHONOR TO NEVER ACKNOWLEDGE IT?

[@rogerringold616]

Women create/destroy with their mouth/words expressing the power of passion for good and evil. As deadly as any man.....her 1st betrayal SIN....demanded DEATH...BY GODS WORD....tombstone made when she ate/coerced Adam...her relationship WAS STRONGER WITH SATAN...SO HER 1ST BORN WAS A MURDERER....impregnated by sin/ evil iniquity/anger/power greedy......here is CAIN THE KILLER....NO COINCIDENCE.

[@lisajohnson4744]

Whaaat?

[@betsydorton1647]

THIS is the teaching that needs to be heard from every pulpit. Judgement and legalism of fellow believers make healing from legitimate divorce even more painful. Thank you for digging in deep to discover and speak the truth. If you have listened to this and held any other position on divorce, think about how you treat your divorced friends. How have you “counseled” them? Please act justly, love mercy, walk humbly.

[@tinabrooks4397]

My marriage started out in lies, deceit, betrayal, led to gaslighting, blame shifting and more. My husband is a narcissist, but more importantly, he lives in denial, hasn’t or ever will take responsibility for anything that has happened. He is a minister who knows the Bible and scripture, which he uses as a tool and weapon because he knows that I don’t know as much as he does, to manipulate me into staying in this marriage, to shame me if I have a need or want to voice my opinion. I have come to the conclusion that there is no reconciliation, and that I have to serve him the divorce papers to avoid any chance of his attempt to gaslight me , shame me, blame me. I know that he has other relationships that ended the same way. When I asked him what 3 mistakes he made in previous relationships, he tells me he wasn’t a good listener. I pray for him, but the emotional abuse has had such a toll on me that is affecting my whole life. I need healing, not abuse.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for healing, Tina!

[@KittyClark4433]

Im so sorry. Nobody deserves that.💔

[@deva5696]

Same situation sis

[@cookingforbeginners6770]

Same, it caused so much stress that I had chronic illness for several years. I was not giving myself 100% to my kids emotionally because I was so wounded. He serves at the church, lead church groups etc. When I tried to explain church leaders that said to love like Christ would love and to pray for him so God can change his heart. But also to pray for God to change my heart and to focus on the good things...

[@tinabrooks4397]

@@cookingforbeginners6770 I’m so sorry to hear that. What I’ve learned is that if a person does not come humbly to the Lord in sincere repentance, the Lord cannot do the work needed to change his heart, we have to do our part. Responsibility and accountable is where the healing begins. It’s not just stopping the behavior, because that will never last. I had chronic digestion issues because our body takes on the pain we live in. That’s not very loving to ourselves, if I/ we wait for someone to love us like we need to be loved and don’t see their responsibility to love us like Christ loves the Church, and meanwhile we are not loving ourselves because all we can see is their unlovingness, we are missing out on what God has for our lives. Even Jesus didn’t enable others to behave the way they did, why are we? With much love, thanks for sharing.

[@carinekeza6754]

Soon 5 years married. Too much pain emotional abuse, physical and financially. I stayed because the bible says we don’t fight with flesh but the spirit. I prayed, fasted cried to God but I never see even 0.0%! I took my rings off separate the room and said God I did my part the rest is in your hands. 7 months now without any word with my husband and I feel I’m ready to leave because I’m done to grieve for my marriage I’m ready emotionally. This 7 months without word I got time to grieve and now I’m ready and strong trusting God for my next chapter. What makes me so happy is I tried and walked with God👏🏾

[@texuztweety]

Great discussion, thank you! I took steps not leaps, I should have leaped OUT. 16 years later and I have deeply entrenched Complex PTSD, severe memory loss, learning issues, fear of relationships. I noticed tens of thousands of women on the internet with the same experience as me due to emotionally abusive marriages I have hope for the younger generation of women🌟🌟🌟

[@Maggie005]

🙌🏽 blessings

[@beauty4ashes62]

I’m so sorry that you are still experiencing the after affects of your marriage.❤️‍🩹🙏I am right there with you. Finally found a great therapist after 15yrs. I did everything I could to give him the opportunity to repent but he started another family(he had 4 kids with his mistress while we were married)bought a house & one day left without a word or taking anything with him. All 4 of my kids also have damage from his narcissistic tendencies. Especially my girls!😭

[@rebeccahayhurst442]

I am so sorry that you experienced that. I have experienced so much of the same being in an abusive marriage way too long. It’s taken so much from me. I’m trust God through my healing process but it can very discouraging many times.

[@boopdoop2251]

The church can be especially awful to women who are divorced for any reason, even abuse and infidelity. Some of us have somehow gotten the idea that God hates divorce more than He hates abuse, and it’s an absolute lie.

[@janeotto4132]

Look at many different translations of that verse. He doesn't hate divorce. The King James Bible changed the language in that verse to say that. God hates what evil stuff ond spouse does to the other. God can't hate something he himself did. God divorced Israel.

[@ImForgivenToo]

@@janeotto4132 God does NOT break his covenants....He is STILL "married" to ISRAEL !!!!

[@em77775]

@@ImForgivenToo The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: “Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot. And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. *Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce* ; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. Jeremiah 3: 6-8

[@framboise595]

@@janeotto4132 God divorced HIS WIFE . Just like husbands have the right to divorce their wives if they are sexually immoral . Christ's words spoken to the Jews. Nothing else. It is never wives who have been given that right by God himself. All those who do that just show how unoldy and evil they are. They hate their husbands as much as they hate the Lord. God has never ever given women the right to divorce . The only case a wife could go free is if her husband refused to provide for her food , clothing and sex (marital right) as we clealry see in Exodus 21:10. But , how many husbands refuse to provide these things for their wives actually ?

[@jordanruth0809]

Jesus I feel like this is my first therapy session and a biblical one at that. To see the amount of sickness I am just by listening to this and being married for 20 years dealing with adultery, material and emotional abuse for all of them.

[@ashleighb997]

I like how the therapist brought up Matthew 18 before Matthew 19. I did that with my ex. I addressed his sin, or “offense” one on one, then after time ( months) I addressed him with a counselor and even with his accountability sponsor. After that I kept seeking the LORD and he actually spoke to me through a scripture my pastor used one Sunday morning and granted me release. It was between me and the LORD.

[@TheBasicPicker]

If someone wants to get rid of you for something like "ruining a dish", LET them. In that case, there likely was never a marriage, nor any hope for one, with that person. You didn't ruin a dish, he just hates you and doesn't value you at all. Could this opinion from me be coming from the fact that I keep going back to my NPD husband who treats me exactly like this and tries to make me think I deserve it? Absolutely. Nonetheless, I still think my opinion is completely valid and hope anyone living with that kind of person never falls for those abusive lies like I have, to think you deserve that abuse, that he loves you, or that there's any hope for that marriage (without full repentance). I 100% agree that that kind of person is, at the very least, demonically-influenced. God bless.

[@ElRoi68]

🙋🏼‍♀️

[@andrewb6742]

Another revelation God has used you three to give his people " God hates divorce doesn't mean he do not allow it in those circumstances" thank you Lord 🙏

[@cassandrafleming-ox4xp]

I love this podcast I love with his talkin about grounds for divorce I've been reading the word of God for a long time and some things it's just common sense first and foremost they talked about infidelity secondly have you been emotionally abused by man God does not expect you stay in that kind of marriage the police

[@em77775]

I've heard some comment that the original Hebrew doesn't translate well and it might mean more like the hating is done by the man who divorces his wife unjustly and not God himself hating the divorce, but we do know He hates breaking vows and abandoning your spouse and/or kids. However, it does not say divorce is forbidden, or a sin, or that it isn't recognized by God, which is what some Christians believe.

[@susiemccoy7]

I want to thank you for taking the time to make these videos. Since Jan 2023 I've binge watched your videos. Your videos helped me to forgive someone & set boundaries for myself. I'm set free! Thank you Lysa,Joel & Jim. Shalom, Susie

[@hollygrant3799]

So wish I would have heard this before my husband of 16 plus years cheated on me 3 times. Such a painful and good talk

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@pamboire6973]

You have to know God stills loves you and is with you and for you!! THATS When I realized that I was free within myself to leave.. others misquoted scripture (that was difficult) it's been 33 yrs now and still NO REGRET !!!

[@hannasitumorang6832]

Greetings from Jakarta - Indoonesia ...I feel blessed....really help me how to cope.with my marriage.....26 years of marriage I've been abused, my husband looks like a monster at home...he is addict to alcohol and drugs....please pray for me .and 2 my daughters...thx and God bless

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you today, friend!

[@sheilamullins4417]

🙏

[@janethanson1793]

May God intervene, and give you the wisdom & grace you need each day

[@aussiebushhomestead3223]

34 years of emotional neglect with a religious narcissist who has used the scripture (or his version of it) to justify his neglect of his family, even after we lost a son, I had reached breaking point. I hit the wall for the last time. Then, I heard a message by a respected preacher who said "The bond of marriage is superior to tye relationship itself," and I was thrown straight back to the christian default position that God requires me to stay in the misery. THANK GOD for your ministry. You are more than a blessing. Thank you!

[@LoneStarLady-]

I am so sorry about your son and how your husband treated you and your family. Sounds like my story. Married for 32 years, multiple affairs and his selfish pursuits often neglecting kids and me. Continued even after the death of our son in a car accident. You would think he might have reconsidered how his life was going after experiencing the devastating loss and seen how short life is. Would’ve thought it would’ve been a wake up call to value what is most important, but no. When I have more affairs and continue to Pursue his own selfish wants and desires at the expense of me and our remaining children. Also claims to be “religious and a Christian.” Sending you love and prayers from Texas.

[@jenniferwhite1516]

This is so good!!! Can you imagine if Israel kept telling God to “get over it” or that their sin wasn’t that bad???? 😮😮

[@nnylasoR]

I was awakened by my husband moving around and fumbling with his phone early one morning, and while lying next to him, trying to get back to sleep, I experienced about 5-6 bouts of heart-pounding Fight-or-Flight… And the Holy Spirit put it on my heart to ask him about something. …And my concern was legit.😞 I am currently closer to the Lord than I’ve been in years (or ever!), having been reminded that my worth and purpose is found in HIM, not my marriage. This is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to experience, but I know God is not only holding me, He is carrying me. And He not only has me ….. He has my husband as well. My husband and I may never draw close to the Lord and to each other ever again….. but I know, I am and am going to be more than ok in the arms of Jesus.

[@Bike4Life231]

Whew. Lisa was talking about forgiving 70x7. I think that is going to be the hardest part of my work, after being in a toxic and verbally/emotionally abusive marriage for almost 20 years. How do I forgive someone who made me feel like the squished dirt on the button of his shoe? Who brainwashed me into being a slave? Who physically and emotionally abused our children? It makes me feel guilty not to be able to forgive and have so much hurt and anger in my heart for him. I am not an angry person or a vengeful person, and I really struggle with this idea of loving him from afar and forgiveness for someone so evil. I know God will need to help me with this. Ooof.

[@rochellewilson4679]

Thank you. My husband separated from me after 25 years via email in 4/2021. He was traveling for work frequently, so he was gone more than he was home. He stated that he was no longer in love with me. We’ve been very cordial toward each other whenever he visited us. Our youngest was 18 at the time(she lives with Down syndrome), and we decided to wait on telling her. He finally told our three oldest daughters in Jan ‘22. They were very upset, but have accepted now. I just found out the other day, after asking him what his living arrangements were, and he explained that he is now living with a woman who he dated before we even met. She is also separated. I’ve been hoping and praying that it was just a phase he was going through for two years, but with this new information I’m feeling like I need to protect our daughter & me financially.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for sharing your story with us, Rochelle. We're saddened to hear about what's happened to you and your family, and are praying for you right now ❤️

[@JaredReall]

I'm one of these men that are struggling with walking through heart ache. Heartbroken. I'm trying to trust in God - going through a death of my marriage. Terrified of what it'll do to my 2 year old son, and his future. Need prayer.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you today!

[@soundcreating5336]

I am blown away by the empowering insights of these therapy and theology videos. I have been watching so many of Lisa's videos and they are life changing in a great way. You all are amazing and thank you for sharing these insights and understanding. I find myself wanting to hear more from Joel! His understanding of the scriptures is so inspiring and helpful!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching! Check out our other videos on your KZbin page. Joel has several videos packed with great theological discussions.

[@soundcreating5336]

@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries Will do👍

[@framboise595]

@@soundcreating5336 This woman has destroyed her own marriage with her own hands but has the nerve to still show up. No shame . No repentance. No forgiveness. Nothing but Jezebels in Christian guise. Worse than everything. All about fame and money and playing the victim of course .

[@soundcreating5336]

@@framboise595 It sounds like someone in your life may have hurt you

[@MrsMC-hv4px]

I hope this Theologian writes a whole book on divorce and marriage vows and does conferences, I grew up in PK home and my whole life involved in church ministry several denominations it’s spiritually awakening and this is total break down of what marriage looks like in the Bible, it’s so needed for so many broken marriages who have lost hope and are confused and don’t know where to go next. This clears up so many things. Gods word does not return void!! Hallelujah!!🎉🎉

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

I really liked your books, Lisa, Uninvited and It Is Not Supposed To Be This Way. I am married to a Narcissist Sociopathic ordained minister who used to teach the pastors class but is now persona non grata in that same church. Your books really helped me see that there are others out there who do not have a fairy tale ending but God is there in the broken pieces

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you today, friend!

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries thank you

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

@@OfficialProverbs31Ministries thank you. I really do need it. The informal separation has been really helpful. I don’t believe in divorce was I can honor that with control. It has also help me manage the relationships I have without my husband destroying them and things that he would do wrong as far as how he kept things with me being the more careful. He is headed towards retirement now though and we can’t afford two households as careful as I am. I went with him to the Social security office recently. It was something we needed to do. But it gave me a chance to evaluate him. They told us that masks were required. He refused to wear a mask at the place where we needed to talk about our retirement and apply for social security. I kept telling him to put a mask on. He put it on but in a way that it did not cover his nose and mouth. I need prayer that the Lord will give me wisdom. I can work it out here where he will have his own room to call his own but I don’t trust him to not burn our bridges here. Narcissist sociopaths are so good at showing the world one face and their victims another. They don’t see what I see and it causes trouble and burns bridges with people causing dangerous problems for me.

[@danilaroche1156]

You should separate. My ex spouse was the same and tried to kill me. He wasn't a minister though.

[@vuje6890]

First let me say thank you 3 for taking on these delicate topics. May God protect the integrity of His word and purposes. I have one request. I know the victims of marital trauma are usually women. Please do a podcast from the perspective of a divorced Christian man. Perhaps, invite a divorced man who is a Christian leader of some sort. I think this would help provide balanced perspective. I feel it is important that men don’t get broad brushed.

[@lynneshaw6203]

Please please do another of these with same men. There was so so much that couldn't fit into this. Pick up where you left off and complete the search through scriptures.

[@karenscott9524]

She has many great videos with these same men! ❤

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Stay tuned for next Thursday! We have another episode coming out on a similar topic! 😉

[@phil16woman64]

If your not feeling loved for 30 years it’s more than just a fleeting feeling.

[@jenniferthomas7906]

😢 I’m so sorry

[@BeingVulnerable]

😮 this is good, I literally understand that I have been abused, mistreated , hurt, deceived , all the things ( etc) but I also understand why I have struggled to move on. I am a “leaper”… I literally have been wanting to leap to the end instead of taking steps … I knew had knowledge of steps available in a sense. I only saw and wanted to get to the end … but it was so troubling for me, very tricky navigation bc I can feel that HS didn’t want me to rush but take time. The pain hurt and betrayal and pride of in honest (flesh) I have tried to run thru this to the end . God is the most faithful. This is the thing that makes me grateful and love Him bc He knows and is patient and is perfect and able not to waste , rush, abandon, makes all things beautiful afterwards if you let Him. Lowest lows are opportunity for a journey with God to the highest heights…(IF WE LET HIM) not easy not easy we are human😢😮 WOW❤ thanks !!!

[@beachngym]

Thank you for all you do and witness. I am struggling with a potential divorce and this podcast helps me so much. God Bless each of you🙏

[@beachngym]

@@tylerlee27 Originally Ohio, but have been living in Florida for 35 years.

[@susanac1679]

Thinking...waiting....fasting....PRAYING...❤

[@madelinerinehart2146]

This is such a powerful video, thank you all! When you talked about the demonic strongholds that people deep in sin carry into a marriage, that hit deep. This is not often talked about but it is so real.

[@KeyonnaD]

I did that. I followed the scripture on how to handle disputes amongst believers: 1. One on one 2. Then bring in one or two 3. Then go to the church (ministers, pastors, leaders) 4. Then treat them as the pagans. When none of my efforts worked I knew I had done all I could and it was no longer worth fighting for.

[@berlizgonzalez6736]

Thank you for this comment! I begged my soon to be ex-husband to go to therapy or his priest. He declined both. He was absolutely done with the marriage. He was unfaithful, I never thought to be unfaithful. His reason for divorce is me, I pick too many fights. All I've wanted to do is voice my opinion and try to resolve our conflict. I'm figuring out he has an avoidant attachment style, so any emotional connection I tried to make, made him uncomfortable and he ran from it. I have a whole lot of healing to do. God bless you!

[@framboise595]

@KeyonnaD Sorry but you did not follow the Scripture at all. What does the Scripture say to wives whose husbands don't obey the word ? To submit to them in reverence and fear just like Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord . 1 Peter 3 is for wives. Women have no right to do what you wrote. It is between men. Women are in a position of submission .

[@framboise595]

@@berlizgonzalez6736 " I pick too many fights" The cause of fights is ALWAYS us women who struggle for power instead of submitting to our husbands in everything as the BIBLE says. You think that the proud woman in this video does what the Bible says ? My foot ! She teaches unsubmission. She is the embodiement of rebellion. Such women are serpents in the body of Christ and should be silenced . 1 Peter 3 is how you can do the healing. Do that . Do what is right. Obey your husband in everything and regard him as your lord. Submit to him in reverence and fear .

[@Sarayourthrivingfamily]

And the calling to change is so missing in the church. I went for help so many times to friends in the church and to those in positions of power. Some would talk with him, he wouldn’t listen and they gave up. And I ended up at the same point. 12+ years later and I’m free of that and with a husband who is truly a partner.

[@shollarose7158]

Thank you so much for these videos. Lysa your vulnerability is helping so many Christian women. I feel so validated listening to you. I tried for 21 years to save my abusive marriage. As a Christian woman I really struggled as I didn't want the trauma and shame. But finally, I just wanted to LIVE. 3 years post divorce and I am healing and I am at peace. I feel God's love more now than ever before. I pray for continued healing for you and more anointing in your ministry. I pray for more anointing for the men too. They were superb. I have read "forgiving what you cannot forget " and "Uninvited". Can't find words to express how much they lifted me out of my dark places. Thank you for these books. Looking forward to reading your new book. God bless you richly.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching, friend!

[@framboise595]

@shollarose7158 She is not helping anyone. She is a serpent who encourages women to judge their husbands and take control. 1 Peter 3 says the exact opposite of what she 's preaching. 1 Peter 3 has done wonders in the lives of so many husbands who did not obey the word and who got convinced through the holy CONDUCT of their wives. God wants to see the BEHAVIOUR of wives in action. Moreover , this woman teaches men in her books. Speaks volumes. If you follow her , you follow the serpent.

[@robo1944]

Thank you! All three perspectives bring the whole council if God in a way that brings us truth that sets us free!

[@user-uj7gm8lr2x]

Thank you for your teaching. I've not previously heard it presented this way. It something that the church has failed to do in this day and age, like you say, elevating the institution of marriage above the image bearers. My heart grieved as I was listening because of my own circumstances, and what i learnt from your teaching will help me process in my healing journey.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad you enjoyed this!

[@elvasubia606]

Thanks for this podcast my heart feels relieved, I didn’t want to fail God. I’ve been on a similar path of the lies, pornography, the infidelities, gas lighting and double life I just couldn’t and don’t want to do it anymore. All the books you wrote made sense during my season. And I’m on the last book 😢 God bless!

[@Akireisblessed]

This was well needed. Amen ❣️❣️❣️❣️🙌🏾🙏🏾

[@lylameri9082]

Yep. Jesus corrects the misuse of that verse: only use that “just cause” verse due to adultery. He was NOT saying that adultery is the only ground for divorce. His heart would never be to give a pass to abuse, abandonment, and neglect. That’s nothing like Him.

[@caricruzrodriguez6801]

Thank you for this ♥️

[@bojos5]

♥️ wow I understand Lisa ! This was so good

[@lizdenney]

This is sooooo eye opening and I’m so blessed to have found y’all

[@debrajordan7]

Thank you for your ministry! It is very much appreciated!

[@user-oi2xo6ps8r]

Thank you for putting into words how I felt God leading me when I divorced my ex-husband.

[@nalinigopee9428]

Fantastic message ~ I’m so happy to hear this perspective on divorce. Like Lysa I am anti divorce and pro marriage…but to be reminded that GOD divorced Israel…shows me that we CAN and probably SHOULD also divorce when marriage is abusive and infidelity is present. Thank you Lysa, Dr. Joel and Jim 🙏🏾✝️

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@nicolestewart8928]

This is very beneficial because I'd loved being in the covenant of marriage. But it's not a fairytale,so I'm learning to prepare for the work it will require of me. Thank you for this...

[@preparedwarriors]

Such a good, helpful, and clear teaching. Thank you so much. Would like to hear more about the topic of “Material Neglect.”

[@staceybaird289]

love this teaching thank you for this.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're glad you enjoyed it!

[@user-bi1xp5yo5i]

Thank you so much for this!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

My situation is not always possible but I am informally separated from my husband. This gave me control of who was in my children’s lives

[@samsamthecat492]

Thank you so much for all you are doing to help!

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@mlmckee8404]

Thank you this answered so many questions that I’ve had.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Ilovecatstoinfinity]

WOW! impressive information! thank you.

[@melanieleon3070]

I've been in a narcissistic marriage and never knew. I si want to do God's will and have prayed for 13 years for it in a 28 year marriage. I have always been a christian child into womanhood but fell into an unequally yoked marriage. We are now in midst of divorce but I still want to be the light to my husband. I am so confused

[@TheBasicPicker]

I've only been in it for 6 years and it's debilitating. I can't even imagine 28 years. Praying for you 🙏❤️

[@michellewomack9969]

I recommend you look up Leslie Vernick on KZbin- She’s a Christian counselor and speaks on destructive marriages- Gives great biblical insight-

[@loveleleah]

Take your confusion to the Lord and He will give you clarity. Mark Gaither’s “redemptive divorce” book helped me immensely. The Lord gave me a seed/vision of the marriage that He ordained and I saw how far off my own marriage was from that. I invited my partner into conversation and study to realign and renew our marriage according to God’s design. In short, he was not interested. I kept choosing to grow as I knew God didn’t plant His vision for marriage in me, just to then to be tormented by it. After while I came into the truth of the longer I companion myself with sin and toxicity ruling in my current marriage, the longer I defile the standard of marriage God has called me to. I never felt such clarity, peace, and release. God put away Israel (issued her a divorce) and separated from Judah - study it. God Bless you!

[@melanieleon3070]

@@loveleleah THANK YOU SO MUCH! Your comment alone has brought clarity

[@goldamazonb2122]

I am 6 years into marrage with a narcissist. I won't be doing 7 together. I don't intend to divorce but separate and give myself and my children time to heal from always being on edge wary of a snapped temper and harsh words. I want to be a light to my husband but when he starts muttering under his breath because or 4 year old is singing hymns and our 5 year old is trying to shut him up because daddy is gonna hear. That is not a relationship that is biblical at all and spiritually damaging to myself and our children.

[@IreneCherell]

This was a very good discussion. Very informative.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@stayconsistent]

That was good ! Non biased. Straight forward. God bless us all

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@jessicakinsey8813]

Thank you for this. I so needed this! I’m so grateful God leads me. 💕

[@Maggie005]

Same here 💯🙏🏼

[@dbruce5760]

Thank you. This has helped me so much.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad this helped you!

[@shelteredsparrow2736]

Well put by all

[@ninawright628]

The best show out here i love thjs show it is helping me thank you you are very biblically based needed needed

[@lindabullock6793]

Thank you... This has been so freeing for me. I was so determined to keep my marriage together that I ignored what I knew to be true and the end result has done so much damage physically and mentally to me. My husband has been dead for 8 years and I still long for restoration. I believe this series is helping me see things differently and I will be able to move on.

[@christychristy6783]

Great teaching! Would love to have you on radio

[@excellentchoices]

Thank you for creating and sharing this excellent God honouring conversation . I’m praying for everyone listening to this 🙏 May many marriages be saved restored and healed from this conversation. 🙏 May everyone who is making hard decisions have wisdom and peace 🙏

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thank you for watching!

[@mayperez1420]

So good!! This needs a part 2

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Stay tuned! We have related video coming out this week!

[@evea9811]

Great video for those who, like Lysa, carry a heavy burden, grief and pain from the death of the marriage. Going through that & getting down that low lead me back to Jesus though so His ways are higher than ours. Amen!

[@brandyromano]

I really needed to hear this. I have a few differences but many similarities to your story. I have been waiting 20 years for my way out and it is finally here. It is rocky navigating the exit but relieving and liberating.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you, friend!

[@user-lu3tx5it5f]

Brilliant truths here and Biblical wisdom as I've never heard before. My eyes are opened and I am becoming FREE. SO grateful to you Lysa for giving this ministry your all. We are being transformed into healthy, godly women. Thank you Jesus.

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@framboise595]

@user-lu3tx5it5f The serpent is deceiving you . A holy woman is a woman who obeys her husband and regards him as her lord just like Sarah 1 Peter 3. The woman in the video is unholy , proud , teaches lies to women , she is the embodiement of rebellion and unsubmission . Moreover , she teaches men in her books.

[@koleyknowles9637]

Thank You so very much for this - someday I pray I can see you all face to face - to say it ❤

[@christinestewart9734]

Praise God for your teaching. My husband doesn't seem to think he's got a hardened heart, when emotional abuse is my fault. My marriage failing is due to childhood trauma Bond. And I've tried to explain that my upbringing and his upbringing has alot to do with our unfaithfulness to love each other the way God wants us too. He has taken my inconsistency as a good wife as his entitlement to devalue my thoughts and feelings of love expectancy. Please help me.🙏

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Praying for you today, Christine!

[@suzannewirsching1989]

Thaank you.

[@simoiyahector-morales3781]

Truly love this vid, i have endured soooo much financial and emotional abuse so much so that at one time I found myself apologizing to my narcissistic husband when he hurt me. I am now at a place of letting him go, so i can rebuild myself and forgive

[@Kiai808]

When Jim said that unrepentance is evil that gave me chills.

[@lauriesimonds9229]

Excellent video & so very theologically sound. I appreciate the practicality of the marriage contract (I liken this to the Dr. Sheldon Cooper relationship agreement 😅). It's also invaluable to know that the "institution" of marriage is not greater than the individuals (and their inherent value) - otherwise we can just fall into unsavory legalism. At this point, I don't care about any 'Scarlet Letter' I may wear, God covers over me as a pearl of great price - just as He did for Hester Prynne in Hawthorne's novel. Blessings to all my sisters also going through this hard experience ❤

[@lianeschmitz2441]

Yes, separation gives room to think

[@shannone.6284]

I barely have any words. This has been THE BEST talk I’ve heard in the three years since discovery. They’re years in limbo I cried my eyes out to you and to Jesus❤ lord bless and keep you all thank you and thanks to God for reaching me today and speaking to me with this message❤

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

We're so glad you found the video helpful, Shannon!

[@frances4773]

Thank god you are talking about a loving Christian view and so much up to date situations relative to trauma from divorce … ie. not aware of risk for STDs; who knew?!!!

[@sandyschneider6792]

I have been through all that was mentioned here. I took steps NOT leaps but took too long and my son suffered longer because of our court custody/visitation rules and my trying to keep him safe. Loved and appreciate these teachings for people today. THANK YOU.

[@sandyschneider6792]

Been there. I understand!

[@natashachiware4882]

Dear god, I have an enermy that won’t give up, they use all there energy and time to make sure I slip and fall to everyone I know. Recently my enermy’s goal is to make sure I stay in bed all day and not do anything with my life. When I get up to go see family that when they attack and do things to get me in trouble with my family. My enemy thinks there clever. All they want is to see me hopeless and alone. Expose my enemies once and for all. Lord find it in your heart to help me. Lord I’m begging for your help. Lord I beg you show me who is doing this to my life? Lord show me this individual that wants to see me doing wrong all the time. Bring me my enemies so I can speak to them face to face and ask them why? I need closure. Thank so much lord for listening to my prayer and please respond in the name off jesus Amen

[@ElRoi68]

I'm praying for you but seek counsel asap. I lived like this for several years having no clue what was going on. Unfortunately, it started with a manipulative & toxic church leadership and an adult daughter who was more than willing to hop on board. I almost died(literally in icu from the stress my body was shirting down)and that didn't change a thing. None of the churches in our town would help/cared to get involved. It's a "messy situation" when dealing with NPD abuse, especially when it comes in various forms. He's caused me to lose every single one of my adult kids. Either by manipulative lies, 2 taking on his same behavior, undermining my authority and allowing them to break house rules which led to selfish desires, and 2 of them bc I was a freakin wreck all of the time bc of what he'd done to me psychologically. Now they are all gone, he makes the money(disability)and is living in a cabin on our property and I live in fear. I can't leave bc my elder & widowed mom and aunt live on their own acre within our property also. He's friends(a covert narc does this) with the only judge in town, and has manipulated others in a way that clearly has them convinced I'm the problem or they just sont want to get involved either. To make it even more ridiculous, he has these "visions" and God "tells" him things that nobody else knows. Idk who he is now but for the longest time he's believed he is Daniel from the Bible and these ppl KNOW all of this! They just keep their mouth shut and play along I guess! I can't runaway so I beg God many times a day to please call us up! 😢 I am weeping over these comments and SO angry that so many churches not only blame the victim when it's a woman, they refuse to even acknowledge the existence of psychological abuse!

[@pipergunderson-swaney4539]

I always thought I made a covenant to God, and separately my husband his own with God. We both should seek God first. I cannot control my husbands soul, only God to speak to him about that. Interesting about bilateral. Also the sense of material and emotional.

[@TMarieBJudon]

It has been my experience, and that of a close friend that when we seek wise counsel from others in the faith, we are failed in much the same way that we are being failed in our marriages. Religion is ruining marriages. We must return to the Word of God and drop the religious loveys that we are carrying around for false safety and comfort. i will fight the enemy with the Sword before I give in or give up.

[@shannonjones7890]

just so good and wisdom that needs poured out over so much shame women carry who God himself has provided a way out of darkness

[@EsseyJourlney-pg9lb]

A harness of the heart comes from feeling the emotions of attack being done to the Holy spirt which is in all if you are of GOD and from GOD

[@Star-dj1kw]

✅ very good show

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@avrilandreucci2742]

Easy said than done

[@lisamorales777]

I literally just made this decision to separate for all the reasons you stated!!! God is so amazing in how He confirms us to give us His peace!!! Such a blessing you are! Thank you!❤

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@framboise595]

@lisagailey4570 This woman is caught up in pride. She is a serpent who speaks lies to women. The only thing that a wife has to do in order to be blessed is follow the right instructions of 1 Peter 3 on how to deal with a husband who does not obey the word. Submit to him in reverence and fear just like Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. This is how you recognise a holy woman. The woman isn the video is unholy as can be. She even has the nerve to teach men in books.

[@kimberlyramos9349]

Thank you for this! My heart and spirit needed to hear this. God provided a way out for me...

[@OfficialProverbs31Ministries]

Thanks for watching!

[@Maggie005]

Amen 🙌🏽

[@lianeschmitz2441]

Everyone needs a support system

[@leonapietsch4367]

I loved my husband with all of my heart. He did not Love Honour or cherish me. The lying,neglect abusive language, CHEATING was too much to bear. Prayed for a ur marriage every night on my bedside while he was gone all night with a married Woman. Things just got worse and I said I was done and left. Divorced now. Freedom!!!

[@Repent1973]

Same here🙏❤️

[@LorenasChesed1beads]

The only reason why I stayed after my husband did, The holy spirit kept reminding me of the covenant I made with god. That was important to me. Even if the stress killed me I would still love my husband unconditionally.

[@framboise595]

@LorenasChesed1beads Wow ! You're one holy woman , submissive , obedient , good etc... God bless you for that. The antithesis of the wicked female of the video .

[@deborahclavette879]

Also, I would appreciate content on recovery from such a devastating death of a marriage. How does one learn to live this "new normal?" How does one rebuild whatever family is left (I have adult sons), when the family unit has been demolished (especially if another party is now in the picture with a new infant from the live-in situation through my 60 year old former husband?) How do I regain christian community when most churches seem to be family-focused, leaving behind those who are widowed or divorced from much of the richness of community?, etc., etc. God has done much to heal my heart & restore my life in amazing and unimaginable ways (praise Him!), but 5 years later, trauma still continues in some of these areas.

[@Thenextperson]

I have left room for God to move. He still thinks he’s not abusive, but tells me I’m so gd messed up and it’s me who’s abusive. Trust me I check myself on a daily 😢 That is not who I am. I want peace for myself and my children 😢 he tries to “bribe” my silence by supplying basic needs as the bribe.

[@glendacoleman6816]

Love you book “Forgiving what you can’t forget”. I didn’t know you went through a divorce. God bless you❤

[@aberrySLP]

I’ve experienced marital infidelity (adultery) from my husband who also blamed me for his adulteress behavior to justify his sin. He is FINALLY in counseling as a result of past abuse and brokenness in his childhood! THIS is my last hope for my husband to acknowledge his sin against God FIRST then me. I was faithful to my “contract”, my husband broke it, so I will hold him accountable! I don’t want my marriage to end BUT if my husband trivializes his behavior even after counseling, I will do what Holy Spirit leads me to do. Jesus came for the broken hearted and has extended His Agape Love towards me through millions of people I have met or encountered as I ministered the Gospel in a way they understood! THANK YOU for this profound, biblically based, heart and soul piercing conversation! Your “confirmation” has given me the freedom to CONTINUE powering forward! 🔥 Angelic Berry O’Fallon, IL

[@framboise595]

@aberrySLP Can you please define adultery from a BIBLICAL perspective and not from what those people teach please . You are in control. You realise that ? You re not in a position to judge your husband. Don't listen to this woman in the video. She is a serpent. She does not teach wives submission in everything . If your husband has sex with you and provides for you the things you need ( look up Exodus 21:10) , it's fine.