(OLD) Guilliman's Ulterior Motive For Imperium Secundus - 40K Theories

[@TheBigExclusive]

He may not be the prettiest or the strongest, but Guilliman ends being that good dependable son that every father with multiple children overlooks at first. Guilliman is just trying to do the right thing.

[@Nyghtking]

If I remember correctly each of them excelled at one particular thing. Perturabo's was that he was the best with machinery, guiliman's is he is the best at empire building.

[@aaronbiduk813]

Um what about my main man manus

[@megood1582]

@@aaronbiduk813 cybernetics?

[@aaronbiduk813]

Faisal Roufa peurtarbitch just wanted to build bath house he dont know shit next to my shiny armed boi

[@TribuneAquila]

Dis big blonde blueberry guy iz a real git, I’ll tell u wot.

[@christopherwilliams7845]

Remleiz here is an interesting 40K theory I just thought of. What if Tzeentch has grown weak in the past 10,000 years? Some fans might say this claim is BS but the whole trend of the 40Kverse might support this. Tzeentch is the Chaos god of change, thus his greatest strength relies on immense change. When the Horus Heresy happened Tzeentch grew in immense power as he forever changed the balance of galactic power by halting the Imperium's advance and turning what was a stable 3 century great crusade into a galactic civil war. Since the end of the Heresy, the galaxy is in a constant state of stagnation with little changing among the galactic powers besides the transfer of control of some planets. The Imperium is in constant decay, the Eldar continue their path to extinction, the Orks do nothing but stick to their ways, and Chaos has failed to make any significant galactic gains. Therefore Tzeentch is constantly growing weaker as he plots, while the other Chaos gods grow stronger.

[@TheAtomicGoliath]

That being said, there isn't as much hope as you might think. The people in the Imperium live in constant stagnation with hardly any hope of things ever changing. Any hope that they may still have is ALL the hope that's feeding Tzeentch.

[@SeraphimRoad]

Unstoppable as long there is sentient life in the galaxy. Once the Tyranid cleanse the system from any bio matter or the Necrons purged ALL life, there is not much hope nor change for Tzeentch to feed on. The only hope he has then left is that the C'Tan don't devour him first.

[@ValdVincent]

@@sudanemamimikiki1527 The eldar are dying out, they wont last forever. Note that Stagnation is likely made Nergle the most powerful Chaos god.

[@flameknightplayz2939]

@@ValdVincent Ynnead is like the perfect example of stagnation because he is literally the death of the Eldar.

[@40KTheories]

Note, there was a slight misreading. It was founded in M31, not M41. Apologies for the inconvenience >_

[@Yujifanik]

By order of His most holy Inquistion! Apology *NOT* accepted! 10 days w/out a toaster!!! >:D

[@erykrejner2528]

Duuude... At the very end you just solve the TTS mystery of why the Ultrasmurfs are always victorious... Spoilers man... Spoilers...

[@patricksmith9700]

40K Theories could Janus be a clone of omegon and Alpharius the did have a great amount of knowledge about the primarch project

[@kirillmarine5157]

Yujifanik yeah Slight is 10000 years

[@saeryne2406]

New headcannon: The Ultra Marine books make them come off as Mary Sue and oh so fantastic because they are after-the-fact Ultra Marine "recollections" of the events described in the books. This allows people like me to take them seriously and explains their plot armour. They wrote the books as their "presence alters the past". Leaving the actual account of events up to debate and making Cato into a very terrifying and sinister individual.

[@farseerflore9512]

"Brothers, We are going to build a space wall round Imperium Secundus and make the Tau pay for it!" #Calgar2020 #NotMyFarseer

[@anonbehell]

#MakeUltramarGreatAgain

[@thesavior1]

#badxenos

[@Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

#icatosicarius

[@arklados3596]

Sigmar Heldenhammer #theesteemedcatosicarius

[@Lord-Inquisitor]

Very wise on Guilliman's part. He put the Imperium Secundas in a position that could be purposed for whichever eventuality would come. I like it.

[@x-1584]

JugularJugglingJuggaloJimbo I see Guillimam as a potentially shrewd but good military taction.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Despite the terrible, terrible, *TERRIBLE* lore that they often get stuck with as the primary chapter that is the 'everyman', can't fault the Ultras for the few things they do right. This sounds less like heresy and more like the rare case of in-lore Reasonable Marines to me. I wonder if we may see another Imperium Secondus situation before the end of whatever lore shakeup's going on.

[@dyar648]

Gratuitous Lurking Perhaps during the 40k end times, face it you all know its going to happen

[@Astavyastataa]

Here from the future with Imperium Nihilus commanded by Papa Sanga's own son, Lord Dante.

[@robouteguilliman6662]

I built the 2nd imperium so that everyone will follow my Codex.

[@vladdrakul7851]

@Timothy Miller Says a scion of Tzeentch

[@jordankristoff5406]

Will I get a state mandated eldar gf in your Imperium?

[@ericcloud1023]

@@jordankristoff5406 a crack in my phone made your comment appear as "an eldar Griffin" and I was like......"I fucking want one tooooooo!"

[@whythelongface64]

@@ericcloud1023 What kinda crack ( no pun intended) makes gf look like griffin?

[@ARMERZ]

Sanguinius and Lion El'Jonson look like a vocalists of two different metal bands going on a tour.

[@Oloblorandbillie]

Sanguinius would definitely be in a powet metal band, lion'el johnson would be probably death metal

[@Astavyastataa]

@@Oloblorandbillie Papa Sangy would be Glam Metal imho

[@YouTubedoesntneedhandles]

Konrad kurtz looks like a black metal vicalist

[@TheLightensoul]

Despite not being a fan of the ultramarine's (thanks to matt ward) I do have some respect for their primarch in the book of "unremembered empire". He could have easily made himself the new emperor but he choose not to. All that power could have been his in one word and he denied it. He does have respect for that from me. Also its written by Dan abnett, love his work.

[@werallgonnadi3035]

Thrice was Caesar offered a kings crown, and thrice did he refuse it.

[@michaeldriggers7681]

Like Cincinnatus and George Washington

[@shmee123ful]

Ok I know people hate the ultramarines because of their over exposure but come on don't you think you pushing it a little to far. Gillimam just wanted his fathers vision to survive the heresy

[@40KTheories]

Well, after all it is just a theory ;)

[@thetalkj.e.t.5377]

A GAME TH- *BLAM*

[@coloneljurten9046]

TheTalk J.E.T. FUCKING HERETIIIIIC

[@shmee123ful]

I doubt it

[@LordHydrik]

Guilliman would have made a great Slaaneshi Follower due to how vain and egoistical he unconsciously is.

[@hollyhandgrenade42]

The Ultramarines (and Roboute Guilliman) get a lot of flak, but I can appreciate their dedication to "winning".

[@coot33]

*dedication to "being mary sues"

[@Philipp2998]

I don't really know about 40k, but during the Horus Heresy they sure get a lot of beatings.

[@josephwilliam7352]

Are you truly Alpharius?

[@RobertG253]

I am Alpharius.

[@HaloFTW55]

Alpharius Omegon, no, I know you're Omegon, not Alpharius. I can sense it. Wait, I'm a Psyker? Fuck! I don't wanna be a Librarian!

[@reverendrico5631]

Hate them all you want, the ultra's are still my favorite chapter and I won't let ward's fluff steal that.

[@LordKamina2]

"our presense remakes the past" that's interesting considering all the retcons like their run in with the nightbringer

[@kyokyoniizukyo7171]

so, matt word's entire written works where retconned? Or, not...

[@dyar648]

Kyononnon 'why did Gmail screw me over?' Some parts such as the Blood Tide Heresy which was utterly ridiculous even by 40k standards.

[@kyokyoniizukyo7171]

example dare I ask?

[@LordKamina2]

Kyononnon 'why did Gmail screw me over?' I think he's talking about the the part where the grey knights killed inocent sisters of battle and covered their armour in their blood to protect them from the bloodtide, which i think has been retconned to be that they where running away

[@commanderfarsight2351]

When Guilliman voyaged to terra after his resurrection, you can tell he no motives because he was angry at his dad for leaving the imperium to defend itself. He was constantly doubting himself and why he had to be the one bought back and not his other brothers.

[@tonypaulik2205]

A couple things. Imperium Secundus was founded after the Word Bearers and World Eaters nearly destroyed the 500 worlds. In addition to this event it was revealed to Guilliman of Horus's betrayal. The Ruin Storm blocks all contact from nearly one half of the galaxy to the other. Guilliman sends out astropathic messages as far as he can to any loyalist to rally to Ultramar. Throughout the books Guilliman is vindicated in his decesion to for Imperium Secundus by the Lion and Sanguinius (who is viewed as the most noble primarch).

[@tonypaulik2205]

If anyone has read "Angels of Caliban" a lot is revealed near the end regarding some of the issues people have stated. Its not the best of HH books but it does progress the story quite a bit and any Dark Angel fans should enjoy it as it goes into their lore quite a bit as well.

[@Fredfredbug4]

I don't think Guilliman had an ulterior motive. He would be vindicated later with the Codex Astartes. I don't think someone with the ambition to create his own personal Empire would intentionally cut down the size of his massive legion.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Perhaps so, unless he's secretly undermining the Imperium and sought to weaken the Empire's most elite force by breaking it up via the codex.

[@Fredfredbug4]

It actually was a big deal to split up the legions. The Space Marines were originally a massive army, and instead they were turned into small strike forces. Not necessarily a bad thing, and one that's worked for the most part for 10,000 years, but it changed heavily.

[@swiftsabre28]

Loving the new animation you have in between the slides, much better than the old one with the irritating glitches :]

[@kek105]

tbh If I was one of the primarcks I would join the loyalists and wait for the Emperor to get mortally wounded in the duel against horus and then declare myself the new Emperor

[@robertlaw9162]

All I know and believe is that Guilliman was completely loyal to the emperor and Imperium

[@pyrosauria7444]

His actions did indeed screw the Imperium, In a positive light this could have been accidental not to mention that if he wasn't trapped in stasis, he would have kept the Imperium in line. But I believe he had...other motives. He isn't a chaos worshipper obviously, yet he has some ulterior motives. Firstly is his instant claim to a new Imperium (I say instant since 7 years is nothing really to these guys), he should have gathered a grand armada to reinforce terra rather than build a new Empire. There's nothing wrong with fortifying positions as to prevent any attacks on the world, yet considering how Gulliman was quick to jump to conclusions showed that he had some other plans. Next comes his Codex Astartes which is to divide the legions rather than unify. While he claims to be doing this so there isn't a second Horus Heresy, this essentially prevents unity among Imperial Forces not to mention that individual chapters have a greater chance to fall to chaos due to this divide. Next comes Gulliman hostilities towards Dorn. While Gulliman was "Rebuilding" the Imperium, Dorn was out trying to destroy the traitors. However when he returned he was told to submit to the Codex to the point of being labeled a traitor if he didn't submit to Gulliman rule...That's the most treacherous thing Gulliman has done. Seriously, he's willing to call the Praetor of Terra a fucking traitor just because he won't agree to a flawed document (Kinda sounds like the Imperial Creed)...Gulliman is most likely a fucking traitor who just wants to control the galaxy.

[@titanscerw]

Pyroskies exactly spot on bruva ... I want ultrasmurf dead more than Ezekiel Abbadon (his failures help

[@dyar648]

Pyroskies After the Horus Heresy the imperium was weaker than ever before and aliens took advantage of that by attacking countless worlds, they needed to defend their already vast borders not expand it, the legions were unfortuneatly out of date thanks to the Horus Heresy. Also its not as if the legions were incorruptible from chaos either since it managed to infiltrate its ranks through the warrior lodges without issue due to how large the legions were and how it wouldnt be that noticeable amongst that many people. At least with Chapters you can tell who has fallen to chaos and who hasn't due to their different colour schemes and all. Also Gulliman was a tactical genius and TECHNICALLY the leader of the imperium after the Horus Heresy so a refusal of a direct order from him is technically treason. Besides look at Ultramar now, it is one of the most prosperous systems in all of the Imperium thanks to the foundations laid down by Gulliman. I'm not saying Gulliman was great but he wasn't an idiot and recognised the need for change. Nothing lasts forever

[@x-1584]

Castlerea 12 Imo Gullimam was a smart, incorruptible, tactical stand up leader for the imperium, & i suspect when he & Lorgar meet again the heavens will roar w/ furry & bright damaging fireworks once them two meet face to face again, & i cant wait to get that book once its released, hell I'm not a gamer but these incredible Warhammer universe Sci/Fi continuing epic saga stories should be well made & put on the screen w/ no Disney Land Star Wars softness to ruin the potential gripping flesh & bone capability of the stories either, & they shouldn't use the most well known actors, but good unknown actors even foreign that wont add cornyness to the stories imo.

[@joaquinrivera1496]

Pyroskies While technically wrong For Imperium Secundus to work he wouldn’t intentionally cripple his UM

[@eoghan-uk9yi]

Well you could easily say that he made that threat as a means of preserving unity at all costs. But yeah when you think about it its kind of a dick move to put your brother between a rock and a hard place

[@joelkreissman6342]

Anyone else think an alternate timeline where Terra fell and the Imperium Secundus remained is ripe material?

[@x-1584]

Paul Schroeer-Hannemann We live in a vast vast universe, so who's to say this is not happening in some form somewhere else that's billions & billions & billions of light yr's time away from us, compared to our local solar sys's vicinity that's compared to a piece of sand on that vast beach. 👽

[@x-1584]

Btw there's rumor that a book will be released on that.

[@tonypaulik2205]

Not sure the narrator has finished reading "Angels of Caliban" as it pretty well lays out the ending and the reason for Imperium Secundus from the Primarch Triumverate.

[@40KTheories]

Admittedly no I have not at this time.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

coming back to this after going over the newer material its interesting to compare guillimans recent actions to his past ones, he even makes a statement along the lines of "once before his fathers imperium had needed him and he had looked to his own worlds, he would not make the same mistake a second time". I wonder if this is what he meant, that he may see this whole series of actions as a huge mistake.

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

See, this is why someone needs to cut-off Girlyman's life-support.

[@TheZombieburner]

Send me to McRagge, my lord! I'll gladly cut off his life support! And I'll even get them to stop chanting!

[@x-1584]

The 225677th Fragment of the Man-Emperor of Mankind Speaking of there life support systems, aren't those full armor environmental battle & combined space suits works of imaginative genius, & this so called emperor w/ his golden clad winged suit seem to have a anti grav mechanism installed in the wings electronics unlike the standard issued Space Marine suit w/ there tech obvious anti grav or fuel propelled back packs, tho there armor suits are all very similar w/ variations & personal choice add on modifications like the Chaos marines, who add death symbols, dead person once owned skeleton heads & long, horns & sharp spikes including modified chaos weapons & etc w/ & on there standard issue or modified armour suits & carrying on like waring roman legions who've been technologically advanced up the yin yang, hell just otta this world this space opera saga. 👽👍⚡

[@deepblue1846]

To late to do so now

[@guilhermesfk]

You had your chance

[@nathanhunt9105]

The 225677th Fragment of the Man-Emperor of Mankind Too late.

[@MrSeerV]

This is the big fun question to think about with the imperium secundus. I personally think that he always had an intention of unifying the historic and somewhat mythological 500 worlds (briefly mentioned in either know no fear or unremembered, I can't remember) and keeping it as a somewhat autonomous unit. However, I don't think his intentions are traitorous. I think he is loyal to the emperor and certainly to the ideals of the imperium but also ambitious and a product of Macragge. Seems to me that it was totally achievable to have this series of fiefdoms within the greater imperium, it's pretty much what was already happening pre-secundus. I'll have to try and find the post online but I was looking at a break down that someone (might have been Laurie Gaulding, don't quote me on that) put up for the overall number of compliant world liberated over the great crusade and a very rough number that the ultramarine might have been involved in. Seems likely that it very much exceeded 500. So I guess, as a piece of speculation, he was able to reforge the mythical empire of Ultramar but kept it at its traditional size. I think if his plans had been to forge an empire of his own to totally control he just would have expanded. Then again maybe that's as much he thought he could get away with. As we know he is very mindful of not being seen as a tyrant. In a sense he still gets away with it. Ultramar is still somewhat autonomous. Anyways thanks for the vids, it's fun to think about.

[@byronwatson1557]

Not a bad video. Definitely worth watching thank you for the story

[@chrissoto7187]

Can you revive the primearc Gilman by using the webway since it has been know to have regenerative properties on humans that go to the black library?

[@asaenvolk]

What is that from? I am curious.

[@ravenmarine2015]

in atlas infernal inquisitor Bronislaw Czevak got young again while living in the black library due to the Webway's natural regenerative effects upon human tissue

[@dyar648]

chris soto Technically but since there is no webway gate in Ultramar that the Ultramarines can use I doubt they would have enough time to bring their primarch back to life. Besides it just raises the even greater probability of Jagahati Khan comins back since like you said it has regenerative powers so he may have well aged very little or perhaps not at all. Also Gulliman is frozen in time so the instant they remove him from the statis field, the poison from Fulgrims blade would spread throughout his body and possibly kill him.

[@tribunalcustodian3989]

You should go there, maybe learn how to write

[@Destroyer83]

The Ultramarines presence apparently does remake the past, as I'm pretty sure 009.M41 seems a little late for the heresy.

[@Romuls753]

So in more obvious phrasing, Remelez considers Guilliman a traitor

[@patrickmcginty3234]

It would make sense in the eventuality that the Emperor will get off the Golden Throne and Terra being consumed by a new tear in the warp. This way, there will be a new center of government for the Imperium to be able to regroup and eventually rebuild in a new Golden Crusade.

[@RommelTheDesertFox]

I don't think Guiliman would've done that. He was WAY too loyal

[@PCveteran117]

So my Primarch made a situational second Imperium In case if Horus won. Would that strategy work if Terra fell to the Tyranids, Chaos, Necrons, or Orks (I don't see any reason or possibilities of holy Terra fall to the Tau, Eldar, or Dark Eldar) anywhere between M32-M41?

[@cessatiolux6250]

Hey what cool medieval music do you use in the background of your videos?

[@KnightofRome01]

Gulliaman: "Just kidding, guys!" /wink

[@bossshun9]

If anything, there were already two Imperium Of Man Empires ready just in case of a sudden loss of the original. Yet each would have been different.

[@henrylawrence1536]

It is time for Warhammer to go forward rebuilding the imperium one bloody battle after the next

[@2SSSR2]

I don't think that we can judge Guliman yet, at least not until GW finish HH book series. As far as this goes we still need to see how Blood Angels arrived at Terra before Horus and why didn't Lion and Guiliman followed them. But I think that Guliman was a victim of his own subconsciousness, which forced him to create his own empire to rule it. It was not until Lion came along and had a discussion with him that Guiliman stated making steps in right direction.

[@vladdrakul7851]

With time my contempt for Robot Girlyman has turned into a deep respect. He has proven to be if not stronger or equal to the Emperor, wiser and more truly in sync with the deepest wishes of the Emperor in terms of his hopes for humanity than any other Primarch or organization. That is beyond mere survival, as necessary as that is, which he also worked for with his 2nd Empire (an idea no doubt taken from Isaac Asimov's 'Foundation Trilogy' in which an ancient Earth Galactic Empire creates a secret mirror one as the genius who creates it sees the coming collapse of the present Empire). His disgust on the high tech medieval hell he encounters on awakening proves this. In particular his comment that perhaps it would have been better if Horus had one, shows his deep fear that a rotting Empire of pointless genocide, cruelty and paranoia, just as with the earlier arrogant corrupted Eldar created Slaneesh and human hate feeds Chaos in the Warp. Looked at this way Robot is indeed the man who should have been emperor despite being a lesser being, he is more practical and more strategic than the more emotional emperor was. It was the emperors mistakes that led to the fall just as the vastly underrated Star Wars prequels (as opposed to the mindless abortions of the Disney CRAP) showed us the far deeper truth; that it was the arrogant know it all, stuck in the mud of tradition and form, Jedi Council whose arrogance and coldness helped push Anakin into the arms of Palpatine as the only truly wise grey Jedi Qui Gong (my favorite hero of that universe) understood. Anakin needed the simple protection of a parents selfless LOVE. He LOVED Anakin as a father would as did his mom. Losing that right away and then being treated like a potential terrorist did NOT help. Less talk about him being 'the chosen one' (thereby raising false hopes of power and arrogance in him) without the love and stability of a normal human family where mutuality and caring for each other and being loved created the far happier and secure Luke who COULD resist evil, not being so filled with hate, bitterness and pain. I think both Palpatine and Anakin's acting was BRILLIANT and psychologically correct! People moan how 'Anakin is not likable' like a insecure teenager which he was is truly clueless. Why do you think HE became Darth Vadar and NOT Luke?? Hello!! Lastly it is so tiresome and lemming stupid to go on about his hatred for sand. Clueless!!! *As the same actor who originally played Obi Wan (Alec Guiness) said when playing Saddam's Grand Father Faisel Hussain in the truly brilliant 'Lawrence of Arabia' ; 'only the English like the Desert. We who are the Beduin (models for the Sand Raiders) and live in the desert like trees, gardens and water; NOT the desert!'* Many European troops hated sand in the Desert fighting in WW I and II. It DOES get into everything!

[@abrvalg321]

0:17 Who is that character with showers in his wrists?

[@blueyetuo]

Did the pharos beacon get destroyed by the ruinstorm? Would be a useful tool in the current time line to cross the rift?

[@40KTheories]

+Alex Jones no, Alexis Pollux blew it up

[@blueyetuo]

40K Theories. What a prick.

[@kirillmarine5157]

Thankfully bananas saved the Imperium Damn UltraSmurfs somehow became villains that time

[@hitomisalazar4073]

Something I caught in "The Best of Hammer and Bolter: Volume 2" was a novella split into three parts called "The Lion" taking place in the Horus Heresy. I'm reminded of it as you mention the Ruinstorm made travel and communication impossible because it disrupted the Astronomicon. And one of the long lasting Doomsday Scenarios in 40k has been "The Astronomicon fails, Imperium instantly dies due to lack of Warp Travel". In "The Lion" however there's an odd mention. With the Astronomicon cut off by the Ruinstorm, the Lion's fleet ends up navigating by Archeotech Warp Beacons. Apparently beacons that are planted in Warpspace relative to every inhabited and colonized Human world back in the Dark Age of Technology. Surviving the Warpstorms of the Age of Strife, and the Ruinstorm itself. This seems to suggest an answer to a long lore question I've had. "If Navigators and Warp Engines existed long before The Emperor revealed himself and lit up the Astronomicon, how did the Dark Age of Technology empire of mankind work?" It seems to imply that humanity expanded slowly. Basically having to do the Tau style "Warp skimming" or sublight propulsion in order to expand to a new system. However once they got there, they placed a beacon that Navigators could see like a Roadsign on the Motorway, meaning once established travel between worlds was rapid and safely guided in. Whatever happened to these beacons? It's hard to believe the Ruinstorm wiped them out, as they clearly hadn't in that story. Nor did the Age of Strife's Warpstorms during Slaanesh's birth. Is it possible that even if the Emperor's Astronomicon falters that it's net effect ends up as... well... practically nothing on Warp Travel?

[@daverage4729]

All hail Bobby G and his hood of Westside Ultramar

[@BarbeChenue]

This was truly prophetic. We now see the foreshadowing of Guilliman's hubris.

[@dyar648]

To add further credit to this theory it has been recorded that nearly every major orginal chapter recieved Ultramarine geneseed to ensure their recovery. While it could be because Gulliman needed to recover the Space Marines legions quickly due to the instablity that followed after the Heresy it could have a darker motive of ensuring their appreciation and thus loyalty to him and him alone

[@x-1584]

Castlerea 12 If not they would have mostly fallin into the hell hole regions of the CHAOS realms of madness & insanity, & he didn't want to see this happening to his marines or the imperium imo.

[@jmt5626]

Question podcastis how do you think Orks taste #"Gotsta Eat" and what would happen if sanguinus had waited for the emperor on vengeful spirit

[@eclipseslayer98]

Oh noes! Does this mean that the current Imperium IS the Imperium Secundus?

[@loyturrubiarte7012]

Wait is this the same beacon that lead the Tyranids towards the galaxy and how long did this Forgotten Empire last? By the way nice transition picture Remleiz makes me think of the ever changing ways in the Warhammer 40k universe.

[@somedude669]

Wasn't blow g it up what attracted them?

[@SeraphimRoad]

Guilliman is a traitor! ---said nobody. Yet the Emperor still want his life support system to be turned off

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

SeraphimRoad Kitten, now a Chaos god, work for Guilliman? Or Kitten does know of Guilliman little "Secret project".

[@benher9462]

Yeah, Guilliman would be reborn and grow fast! A man from a baby within a year, maybe 2 years, 3 years. Rather, it took thousands of years for Gilliman to be healed.

[@quintonstevens3685]

Their banner says our presence remakes the past because of wardian altering of fluff.

[@zenoblues7787]

Considering Guilliman was a prick and he was building this "empire" before the heresy I'm going to assume Roboute was trying to build his own empire especially as he joined the Emperor for humanity and no other reason he did not agree with the Emperor on certain issues and may have even tried to make a power grab if he saw a chance but the heresy changed all that

[@x-1584]

Zeno Blues He certainly seems to have a record of rebuilding & maintaining a potential thriving society on his worlds instead of wantonly tearing them down on a moments orders like a handful of his fellow chaos prone psychotic brothers chapters would quickly & w/ out thinking it out first would have quickly done imo.

[@x-1584]

Zeno Blues Id elect him.👍

[@2Infinit2]

Okay.i don't get it... I thought the ultramarines were way too far away from Terra when Horus attacked... But then, if Sanguinius was also on McCrag before going to Terra... Why didn't the ultramarines go as well?

[@masonsawtell2356]

Yep

[@whoaitstiger]

Formed in 009.M41 during the Horus Heresy huh.

[@thewildgeesecod]

so guilliman voice actor confirmed ???

[@megacraig2007]

matt ward knows all

[@jakupsundoe6226]

I just got into all this stuff, I am so fucking lost. The fuck, so there are like, what. 3 empires?

[@bruhb7611]

The same motives as Thawn when he set up his own mini galactic empire in Star Wars.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

If we take inspiration from our own Roman Empire, its was not a Empire in its own right but something more akin to a Kingdom or Duchy, whit hims as its royal leader, as thouse that followed after the final collapse of the Western Roman Empire, granted it could also be considered the Eastern Roman empire at same time after they main one was split in half, still I do see him as Byzantine styled leader.

[@x-1584]

Alexandrescu von Carstein Kantakouzenos I have a strong suspicion if those ancient roman legions of earths past era had such potent advanced military weapons tech, we all would not be here chatting about this.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

X-15 The Roman Legions greatest weakness came from within, after the death of Emperor Marcus Aurelius his son Commodus brought about the ruin of the empire, while Roman was to be lead by republic afterwards the damage had been done, with the rise to power of hypocrisy, via some crazed Jew guys who ran with goats in the desert & did who knows what, Gods help me there & keep theses horrid things away from me, Rome was gone, pretty much & after it was split in two it was over, To quote something that Darth Bane learned from Darth Revan, "If power is diluted or dispersed it will all crumble, but if its centered it shall stand & grow strong". Now that Space Marine legion while mighty are default failure, granted I am fan of the super soldier idea & superhuman enhanced individual, as I really, really, really...etc. want that! As they are either arrogant, incompetent, blind to the truth of the matter & over all hypocritical superstitious fool, well same the Salamanders & the Blood Angels, the Imperial Guard while useful are nothing more the conscripted slave army & meat shields, its navy while powerful is lacking the needed transportation boos, as the warp engine they use can kill them. So if 40K follows history, there might be a chance the Imperium will either split in to several feudal nations or two smaller empires.

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

X-15 There was period known as the time of 30 emperors

[@x-1584]

All i can say is very interesting & facinating, so i guess that these human impulses of power, selflessness & greed w/ in some folks will exist if earth makes it even another 100 to 1000 more yrs that is if we make it & don't do OUR own behinds in ourselves on a massive world scale too .😏

[@alexandarvoncarsteinzarovi3723]

X-15 I think by 2030 slavery will be legal once again, that is how I'm going to make money, so yah I'm honest & by 2100 WW III will take place

[@peterquint3816]

When will it become passe to hate the Ultramarines. Who will replace them as the whipping boys? Cry baby Angron and his thicko World Eaters, maybe?

[@x-1584]

Peter Quint Didn't Angron joined the dark side already, him & a handful of other primarchs that now vows to come back & destroy the imperium because of heresy ???

[@mikhielthorsson6033]

The ultrasmurfs are the eleventh legion that turned traitor. And are to this day, unbeknownst, working for the powers of chaos.

[@rangulfgimfang8322]

Id like to see ANY of the other chapters do what the Primarch of my chapter did..... Dive head long into the Eye of terror.....

[@skydemolisher]

Never trust Ultramarines.... :P

[@theeternalchronicler3072]

skydemolisher No never trust the dark angels.

[@RandemFellow]

The Eternal Chronicler Bruvas, I FOUND THE FALLEN!!!

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

Wow, that was a stretch. Normally the possible theories on the channel are pretty plausible. This theory really forces one to intentionally misread "The Unremembered Empire" and intentionally take the impression of someone that did not know all of the information commonly available.

[@daswordofgork9823]

Their goal is to summon the true god emperor: MATT WARD! bum,bum,BUM!

[@augiechiavuzzi4907]

maybe that's a reason y the emperor wants him dead in tts that or its just cause its the ultramarines and they need to be shamed

[@EmperorPrinc3]

another reason to hate the Smurfs... that son of a bitch started building a Empire without confirming the Imperium was dead... let alone the fact Roburto did nothing to protect Holy Terra in the Horus Heresy

[@dyar648]

Gabriel Angelos He had no way to protect the Imperium since the warpstorm made it nigh impossible to actually allow ships to navigate through the warp

[@BTDTChino]

Sanguinius and the Blood Angels made it.

[@admiralhugo40k]

Not Yet, and we don't HOW they did and why not the Lion and Guilliman

[@BTDTChino]

admiralhugo40k They did make it cause the Blood Angels fought at the Palace gates. Sanguinius died fighting Horus in orbit over earth. We also know that Sanguinius and the Blood Angels went to Calth after the Drop Site Massacre. From there at some point they went to defend the Emperor. Why didn't the Ultramarines go with them?

[@patton5283]

The Ultramarines where busy fighting their own battles across the Imperium, same case for the Space Wolves and Salamanders. However, they were on there way to Terra during the siege which was one of the primary reasons why Horus allowed the Emperor to enter his flagship since he knew that he could not take Terra when the Ultramarines, Space Wolves, and Salamanders arrived to assist.

[@scottmctrusty3062]

Guilliman was willing to start a second civil war over the codex and his being lord of the imperium. So yeah this is believable.

[@cebi3939]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[@carterhowlet8175]

Ok let me make this clear. I don't hate RG because of Matt Ward (Though it contributes) I don't hate RG because of GW's obvious over exposure of him (though it contributes) I don't hate RG because he was a dick to Agron (Though it contributes) I don't hate RG because his legion is so HILARIOUSLY vanilla. (Though it contributes) I don't hate RG because when Sanguinious was in there FUCKING DYING FOR THE EMPEROR he was doing his own thing (Though it contributes) and I don't hate RG because it is later revealed (as you now showed) that he was making a side empire he could "conveniently" jump off to when things didn't go well with daddy's AND THAT'S THE BEST CASE SCENARIO (Though it contributes) I hate this guy as a person. (If he was an actual person anyway) RG is the kind of guy who want's another piece of cake, but is too self-conscious on what other people think of them so they do it discretely, fooling exactly no one. He WANTS to be in charge SOOOOOO bad but has enough of a conscious to go "oh *swoon* I could NEEEEVER be in command" so he doesn't look like an asshole. Yet he goes on bossing people around like the arrogant little piece of shit he is. Another example is that when he made the CA. Did he ever ask for the other Loyalist primarchs opinions when writing it? Hell no! why would he do that? When the fight gets tough he will NOT be there for you. (Unless it benefits him of course) but when the dusts cleared he'll be right there pulling the strings in his favor behind the scenes he's a crooked politician who weasels his way to get power at least Horus had the balls to take it by force.

[@mariposilladecampo5648]

TL,DR: RG is Julius Caesar in the space and I hate him for this

[@nextdoorneighbour]

Remleiz, you misspelled the name of the ultramarines primarch, it's girlyman

[@KantFromEC]

*HILARIOUS AND ORIGINAL!*

[@MRwho35]

Grrr..I always knew there was something fishy with the Space Smurfs...

[@x-1584]

MRwho35 Wait tell ya see the Beast men & women.

[@titanscerw]

Rowboat Girlyman da Ultrasmurf is heretic no doubt about it! Considering all his actions + Who in his sane mind would split Emperors mighty bulwark (what remained) in to tiny little fractions almost incapable of autonomous military actions (not counting pathetic skirmishes ...) - radical wilful decentalization of a Legion (as eg Black Templars case) is one thing but to forcefuly atomize only defence human race has left is completely another matter ...

[@formulalyric3173]

560th

[@MrInvisibleDrummer]

Madafaca False Emperor and his Loyalheest

[@volk551]

It's all Guilliman's fault.

[@primachpepe8597]

bloody girlyman and his shenanigans