5th Edition vs Baldur's Gate 3: Paladins

[@OneShotQuips]

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[@yannismpa3701]

But Duke, how can i use this if i dont have any friends!?

[@syncdom]

Duke any plans to continue the DnD stories with Wife? Those always made my day and left me laughing my *ss off so I do hope you continue doing them.

[@lyokomajor]

Dude! What happened? A lot of your shorts are gone.

[@icevlad148]

Paladins don't need to get checked since you know... Disease immunity

[@KratosisGod]

I was thinking the same thing 😂

[@noden1739]

Decease?

[@maurtendo]

​@@noden1739they just won't die...

[@icevlad148]

@@noden1739 donno watcha talking about Never seen this decease fella around here

[@PQRDG]

Was about to comment this, not surprised someone beat me to it lol

[@ForemostCrab7]

"Why do you suck at being a Paladin?" "I DIDN'T UNTIL YOU CAME ALONG!" Why does that hit so close to home...

[@aquamarinerose5405]

Probably because... Yea. It's funny since in 5e, Paladin is seen as one of the most potent classes out there for its ability to basically do EVERYTHING a player could want, with the only real weakness being the lack of Ranged Smites... And then Larian took a look at it and thought "But what if we made it EVEN BETTER"

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

As someone who played Pathfinder 1e before Dnd 5e, i used pathfinder paladin as a litnes test then i started. I immediatly noticed the weirdness of Smite, Lay on Hands and... hey! Why is Aura of Curage at level 10? Basicly i concluded that 5e Paladin is weak in comparison to its predecesors or even contemporary paladins in games, it turned out to be one of the stronger classes in 5e

[@GeneralKnightmare]

@@aquamarinerose5405 I actually think BG3 Paladins are weaker than 5e Paladins for the simple fact of map coverage and long rests. In a 5 foot square grid format it's so easy to become a wall no enemies can get past. It's why Sentinel is so mind boggling op in the first place as the DM HAS to go through you to do anything. Meanwhile in BG3 Sentinel is so god damn useless because everything and anything can just. . . walk around you and your reach is pathetically small. On top of that DMs in 5e are super generous with long rests practically making sure you have every smite you can on every single encounter. At least with my DMs.

[@st3vorocks290]

@@GeneralKnightmare Idk, two frontliners with reach weapons and two ranged staying close makes Sentinel pretty darned useful in my games. Especially paired with Spirit Guardians. And there are enough camp supplies lying around to abuse Long Rests as much as you want.

[@Vekcrazah]

​@@GeneralKnightmareMy glaive Minthara says otherwise. It's useful if you know how to manipulate the battlefield

[@Necroes]

5E Paladin: I bet all of your fifth level spells are better than mine, too! BG3 Paladin: Spells go above level 3?

[@NamelessDemonkitten]

thats just cuz the bg3 level cap is 12(with even in 5e you only get lvl 3 spells at that point)

[@lucky6961]

the level cap was the first thing they warned, if you get lose in side content even in second playtroughs you will already get to over 70 hours easily

[@skell6134]

@@lucky6961 But Imagine BG3 would get Level 20,lol

[@HuggyBuddyOwO]

There's a mod for thatv​@@skell6134

[@maxbuss970]

​@@skell6134it'd be way too hard to do spells at a higher level that start just breaking the game. Past 12th level is just chaos

[@StephanieLenz71]

I'm surprised it was the 5e paladin who broke his oath. The BG3 paladin probably broke his six times before breakfast.

[@CanadianCrits]

Was thinking the same thing 😂

[@scootaloo9491]

I'm starting to understand this after playing as a Paladin from the start. Because jeez, it just doesn't know how to detect when jumping an opponent is an obviously better decision. "Paladins of Tyr" wanting to drag a Kidnapped, unwilling Footsoldier back to the hells right after they escaped still gets counted as an Oath break because i jumped them, and happen to have the Paladin kill one of them. But if someone ELSE kills them, that's fine. Even some literal SLAVERS from the Underdark getting jumped, who we KNOW don't wanna resolve things peacefully, and have a history of gutting Myconids and breaking Peaces. But nooo, Paladin kills one of them, and that's a feckin OATH BREAK. I was literally afraid to even attack one of the undead corpses while they surrounded my Paladin after a reload to get my oath back, cause I'd already restored it once by that point. Because i was afraid that even attacking an actual corpse and killing them would cause an Oath break because i Thunderwaved the Cleric off a bridge to start the fight.

[@Strangeric798]

​​@@scootaloo9491 I played an oath of devotion paladin for my first playthrough and never once broke my oath. Reading the comments, I think I now know why, subtlety was out of the question for my pally. Made sure to talk to everyone and if they were hostile, tell them to their face that I was going to smite them now. Helped I built him with around 24 ac, but still

[@scootaloo9491]

@@Strangeric798 Well, admittedly, this IS my.. 4th Playthrough. And i know what to Expect. And I'm playing Tactician so I'm taking no chances. But still. I think as an Oath of Ancients Paladin, it should be pretty obvious that SLAVERS are against the natural order of things, and should be Drowned in Holy Water.

[@scootaloo9491]

@@Strangeric798 Ok, idk why, but my reply didn't go through. I basically just said that your response is fair, and currently it isn't my first playthrough. But i think, as an Oath of Ancients Paladin, upon meeting literal slavers that have slaughtered and Broken the peace with Myconids, there should be no oath break for jumping them. Idk about you, but Slavery seems pretty Unnatural, and Disturbing of the ways of Nature.

[@pandorawolf8239]

Not having an oath at level 1 is probably a remnant from the olden days when you would become a paladin through being a fighter first.

[@lucatirelli545]

Nah it's just bad design

[@caliph95]

It's probably more likely just to help give you a feel for paladin before you decide whether what role in combat you want to play

[@lordjor96]

Nah in 3.5e paladin IS A CLASS, same in 4e. So it makes sense that You choose an Oath by level 1. The only reason Why would You pick and Oath at that level Is if You were a Padawan/squire from level 1 and 2 and become a Jedi Knight/Iniciate at level 3

[@pandorawolf8239]

@@lordjor96 Im talking about AD&D like 1.0 and 2.0

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

It may have to do with limiting the power of multiclass dips (though 5e is very inconsistent about this). In the new upcoming version I believe they're trying to standardize so you get your subclass features at level 3 across the board.

[@jpaguilarl]

"you need to have a full commitment to your oath to receive it's powers" *sends Astarion to stab some random inocents and steal from everyone in the refugee camp while acting like they don't know what's going on*

[@GrahamRocks]

To be fair, the whole "Paladins can't interact with or associate with characters like that or else they lose their powers" hasn't been the case for a LONG time. Some of my Paladin's best friends are Rogues. Necromancy creeps him out personally, though that's more because of where he's from (he was basically isekaied to the campaign setting) and necromancy is a bit different there in his country. Talking to ghosts is fine, walking skeletons aren't.

[@HH-hd7nd]

My paladin never did that. Actually - Astarion hated her guts from the moment I limited his diet to non-sentient beings.

[@mattroxursoul]

Plausible deniability to an oath

[@Peptuck]

"Man, I love having a tadpole in my head, makes this shit so much easier!"

[@joshuahampton6141]

"My, what fine, yet rustic architecture. I think I shall examine it more closely."

[@kaliumnith]

I expected them both to find common ground being able to absolutely nuke single targets.

[@anotherpersonfromnorfolk1587]

DnD: For the love of Lathander... is there ANYTHING that we can both acknowledge as a plus for both of us that makes both our classes equally good and doesn't diminish in power between one of us?" BG3: ... DnD: ... BG3: Smite? DnD: Smite... BG3: Smite. BG3 & DnD: SMITE!

[@ericsmith551]

@@anotherpersonfromnorfolk1587 This right here absolutely should have been in the skit, it's hilarious and the perfect ending to it.

[@cthulhuwu_]

Don't even get them started on that. BG3 Paladins can apply the Savage Attacker feat to their smites, making them way better at blasting single targets to oblivion

[@Observer29830]

At least 5e paladins don't have to see the oathbreaker dude pop up in their camp every time they decide to kick a squirrel.

[@TheHellisangel1]

Just take the oath of vengeance it is hard to break

[@scootaloo9491]

​@@TheHellisangel1 I don't think Oath of Vengeance is that forgiving that it allows you to kill an innocent animal for basically no reason.

[@JamesTheCelestial]

​@@scootaloo9491 To be fair, nobody said the animal was innocent.

[@scootaloo9491]

@@JamesTheCelestial SHE WAS JUST GETTING YOU OFF HER TERRITORY DARLING I THINK SHE'S PRETTY INNOCENT SHE JUST WANTS HER N U T S

[@Bodharas]

@@scootaloo9491 has that squirrel stolen a nut? SMITE!!

[@anonymousturtle34]

"STOP IT WITH YOUR POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!!" I'm dying XD

[@MonkeyJedi99]

They can't call it Channel Divinity because Divinity is a whole different series of games. Made by the same company.

[@greatazuredragon]

Baldur Gate Paladin: Our Oath gives us power. Oathbreaker Paladins: Yeah, about that.

[@ecapitatorbizarrium3856]

In our DnD we actually make paladin accept the Oath at level 1, but without any special powers. Those special powers come exactly at level 3 and you know them damn well

[@YAH93]

That.. is actually a very good idea.

[@TheDarkPosho404]

That's how it's supposed to be, I don't understand why people don't understand it. But I shouldn't be surprised by people who think they have to multiclass bard to be able to play an instrument.

[@yulfine1688]

@@TheDarkPosho404 i mean in bg3 at lvl 1 you don't really get much.. you're a fighter basically with either a small heal, holy rebuke or inquisitors might is the most useful but its such limited damage, being an oathbreaker is better here as you get spiteful suffering which is more useful than any other oath in bg3. But that's it, you're just a fighter otherwise, at lvl 2 is when you get divine smite, and you don't get many uses really either so you're not going anywhere there. It's not really until lvl 5 that paladin starts going.

[@MayHugger]

@@yulfine1688”Small heal” lmao

[@yulfine1688]

@@MayHugger its very small early on, far better than dnd normally but its quite small

[@LRK1990]

DM: “The paladins walk into a clinic…” The Bards: “Ayyye! What brings you guys here!?”

[@Blackwind_Legacy]

Paladin: "Oh just wondered where you always going the morning after. You don't have disease immunity?"

[@rpghorrorstories]

5E Paladin: Well, if you're an Oathbreaker what sort of horrible atrocities do you perform for the sake of your now fiendish benefactors without which they wouldn't bother? BG3 Paladin: Oh no, we can use them however we want. For good or ill, it's really up to us. All the benefits, none of the implied drawbacks. 5E Paladin: Doesn't that reduce the impact of being an Oathbreaker? Like, the whole flavour of that subclass is that you violated your Oath so flagrantly that only dark powers will now deal with you. BG3 Paladin: Nah, I mean my Oathbreaker mentor saw his boss was a monstrous piece of shit so he killed him, thus breaking his Oath, and thus gained all his Oathbreaker powers. 5E Paladin: Doesn't that imply that Paladins are inherently powered by dark forces and all the other Oaths are merely restrictions that get in the way of their true nature? BG3 Paladin: Huh, I never thought of it like that... that's BAD ASS!!!

[@awesomeanime8533]

One minor nitpick is that the flavor of the Oathbreaker Paladin is that they *_intentionally choose_* to break their oath in order to do evil stuff or serve evil. The flavor text from the DMG is as follows: "An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power. Whatever light burned in the paladins heart as been extinguished. Only darkness remains. A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker. The paladin replaces the features specific to his or her Sacred Oath with Oathbreaker features."

[@IndependentObserver]

Ok but wasn't that kinda obvious though? There are Oath of Conquest Paladins that serve the archdevil Bel, and yet that doesn't seem to break their oaths, while Oath of Vengeance paladins are a bunch of goons with the understanding of morality of an angsty teenager that read too many punisher comics, and they do just fine too.

[@EnergizerMegumin]

​@@awesomeanime8533 thanks WotC for the Oathbreaker subclass, but we will take it from here.

[@awesomeanime8533]

​@@IndependentObserver​ I've seen people having Oathbreakers be "Paladins that break their Oaths" and/or having Oathbreakers be good instead of "Paladins that break their Oaths to do evil". I feel like the difference between the Oath of Conquest and Oath of Vengeance Paladins and the Oathbreaker Paladin (besides Oathbreakers needing to be *evil*) is their Oaths since Oathbreakers don't have Oaths and aren't limited as to what they choose do whereas the Oath of Conquest and Oath of Vengeance Paladins are. Like, an Oath of Conquest Paladin may keep people alive while having their hopes be shattered while an Oathbreaker may just kill the person instead.

[@yusufkaradag8983]

I dont think so i think that is a problem special to oathbreakers oath i guess . his oath making him to bad things because he didnt technically swore to follow the light. he swore to follow his masters orders.he thought by doing so he will also serve light.but since his master had very big flaws and in order to right thing he broke his oath.those oaths not holding you back instead they are promises made to ourselves that we will follow light but like in real life you shouldnt make promises easily because that promises has a heavy meaning and by not taking them serious you betray your own words .for example onlt thing oath vengeance says punish evil qnd protect innocent other than that you are free to do whatever you want but since life is not simple and so little of us have wisdom to protect our oath and keep our promise to ourselves.oathbreakers on other hand they broke their promise to follow light yeah they can both good things and bad things but since they do not intend to make another promise to theirselves qbout following light means they slowly started corrupt.think like this your taking your power from a oath encourages you to make right things.but by broke that oath because you have flaws but rather than not giving up and taking your oath back you gave up from your oath and chose dark forces. Literally you chose evil forces yeah nothing bonds you but like i said nothing bonds you. oath doesnt bond you to stop making bad things.and remember in bg3 and 5e your powers doesnt come from your deity they come directly from your oath.

[@TyroFieldEnder]

I'm a paladin main and I've never played Bg3 and this is really funny

[@MrMaradok]

Short-short version, a lot of the changes to characters in BG3 are do to it being, well, video game, but also because the level cap is only 12 - less time to become awesome and all that

[@ShardDeVir]

​@@MrMaradoklevel 12? That's a ... Heck. I thought they should kick Icewind Dale 2 with it's 15-16 level (if you manage to get that far), but that sounds idiotic.

[@MrMaradok]

@@ShardDeVir Actually, it works really well, because it meant the Devs had to try and condense each class into something that would feel better for a game that caps at LVL 12. Monk is the class with the biggest changes, many of which actually solve a LOT of the shortcomings the class has at early game, not least of which is the ability to SHORT REST for Ki points, instead of just long rest. Think of it like this: the recommended level range for Curse Of Strahd is between 10 and 14. Lower, and the module steamrolls you, higher, and the players steamroll the module. In this case the game is designed for players that are 1 through 12, which even makes events like (SPOILER FOR A SINGLE DIALOGUE LINE) when Vlakith casts the Wish spell to “wish you to end,” which causes an immediate game over. It’s more impactful because not only is Vlakith already known to be powerful, be she just used the WISH spell, a spell that’s considered one of the most powerful in the game, AND you’re never going to have it! It’s like meeting a LVL 17 (at LEAST) character at LVL 12 (at MOST)

[@YAH93]

@@ShardDeVirTyranny of Dragons is a two-parter, that goes up to Level 15.

[@lukeskywalker5392]

​@@ShardDeVirits to avoid the headache of high lvl op characters and balancing encounters, as some players might encounter the very same enemy at lvl 7 or lvl 11 depending on how they play (currently a lvl 5 player might encounter the same enemies as a lvl 8 player, if they rush) And also to avoid things like creating dozends of maps, just because of plane shift.

[@jojogacha974]

You forgot that if the baldur’s gate paladin breaths wrong they lose their oath

[@cthulhuwu_]

Let's be real, 50% of bg3 oathbreakers repent by pressing F8 and the other 50% chose to break their oath for aura of hatred

[@eldenarmortem975]

Hm, I finished the game as Vengeance, Half Elf, saving everyone, got enbchievement for that, and I ve never lost my oath.

[@jojogacha974]

@@eldenarmortem975 guess you were lucky. Idk never played the game but honestly I have heard it's very easy to break your oath easily

[@yulfine1688]

@@jojogacha974 its actually pretty easy to not break your oath.. vengeance especially so... the tenets are clear its that people aren't exactly the brightest.

[@MayHugger]

@@yulfine1688It’s more that people disagree with what constitutes as breaking an oath depending on the subclass.

[@chadnorris8257]

"You should get yourself checked." "It's ok, I can cure my own diseases."

[@CanadianCrits]

3rd level 5e Paladin: "It's okay, I'm immune to diseases."

[@chadnorris8257]

@@CanadianCrits I forgot they're outright immune at third level. It comes up so rarely.

[@Magus79]

We didn't until you came along! Jeebus isn't that the truth. All it took was some slight modification and paladins were fixed.

[@galmenz6118]

and no one ever considered them broken! they are up there as the optimizer multiclass cocaine. just so happens that when you give them some QoL updates, people like it!

[@EnvaReaver]

What needed fixing on 5e paladin? Like they're fucking kinda nuts as it stands.,

[@TheAnimeEncyclopedia]

To be fair its also substantially easier for BG3 to break their oath. Like constantly, Usually by accident XD

[@bigj1905]

It doesn’t help that some Oaths breaks are very vague and confusing. For example, the Oath of Ancient’s will break if you let Cazador’s Spawn victims live or if you let the Mother Superior walk away, despite it largely being the Oath of compassion, forgiveness, and valuing life.

[@12SickOne34]

Really? I must have done things very wrong or very right in my first play through, it seems.

[@cthulhuwu_]

@@bigj1905 the oath of Ancients specifically says "Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren." Vampire spawn are undead monsters, whether or not they're sympathetic or deserve a chance. Paladins aren't philosophers or lawyers, they gain power from raw devotion.

[@GalahadTheSeeker]

@@bigj1905Oath of the Ancients does not value life as you think it. It values natural order. If you want the proper good guy oath, go with Devotion.

[@devinwhite5064]

@@GalahadTheSeeker see I would but I love the AOE heal that Oath of Ancients brings.

[@JaredHight-g4e]

Bro felt the heat of 1,000 smites, and realized in his dying moments that he shouldn’t’ve shat on first edition paladins.

[@raphaelperry8159]

"But wouldn't it be worth waiting 'til level three so you're sure which oath you want to take?" Reminds me of Clerics in Basic Edition who had to play as an inferior fighter until they finally got spells at level 2.

[@OverkillHazard]

The 5e Paladin could have won this whole debate by showing off the legendary power that is the Oath of Throwing it Back.

[@eslin2845]

Until the BG3 paladin casts countermod

[@Someguyonline7732]

Stupid bad joke is stupid and bad

[@coltonstewart8698]

​@@Someguyonline7732 Stupid bad reply is stupid and bad.

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

@@coltonstewart8698 You're both stupid and bad. Now knock it off!

[@kfiraltberger552]

I always just have the player choose their oath at level 1. Their entire kit comes from their oath, it's just that their subclass specific abilities come later

[@z3r070000]

This. It's not that they don't have their oath. It's just that having an oath for only 1-2 levels doesn't make you much different mechanically from all the other people with different oaths. But if all your worried about is mechanics than your character was never going to be unique anyway.

[@honestbenny]

5e: "I am afraid to Smite! I have only 3 slots and then I need to wait whole day!" BG3: "Oh, well, I smite every encounter and just go to sleep and come back and smite again!" 5e: "Wait... you are not restricted with your resources management for the whole day???" BG3: "That would be really unfun. Who would do that?"

[@jacksonhorrocks4281]

I think the best way to do oaths is to have their tenets sworn one at a time each time you get subclass features like the Stormlight Archive's Knights Radiant

[@andrewdowns3673]

Actually the last one makes sense since they're half-casters, so they should get half the spells. Everything else though, yeah the Balders Gate Paladin is better. It even makes more sense with their spellcasting for them to have their Oath at lvl 1, because otherwise its out of order - you need an Oath to cast spells as that is were your magic comes from, but you get your spells before you make your Oath... the Oath you need to have to cast spells, which your already casting before you take the Oath which is needed to cast spells. See, it makes no sense. Edit: ... and now they're doing this with the Cleric, Sorcerer and Warlock too!!!

[@Saetanigera]

I always liked the old Planescape flavor that clerics never actually needed their gods to cast low level spells that are powered by faith in the first place.

[@qweeasddzxcc4]

Yes makes total sense from an RP perspective, what’s that? This guy said the magic words? Well better give them all my Devine magic right away, sure they’ve been devoted to me for 2 seconds, why wouldn’t I give them my power right away instead of a fraction of my power until they prove themselves worthy and devoted and then give them true power (lvl 3) i mean shit wizard went to school right? Shouldn’t they at lvl 1 be experts in a particular magic field?

[@andrewdowns3673]

@@qweeasddzxcc4 We still talking about Paladins and not Warlocks?

[@devinwhite5064]

@@qweeasddzxcc4 Except Oaths are literally fueled by belief in them. The magic does not come from some third party individual. That is warlocks and Clerics, technically sorcerers as well.

[@zeehero7280]

Choosing a subclass at level 3 doesn't necessarily taking the oath then. it's when you gain the special abilities of the Oath. Like he said you need to prove commitment for its power. you make the oath at level 1. but it's not until you keep it til level 3 that you earn its unique powers.

[@merlinrecon7528]

What about smite at 2nd level then? Should it not be possible without taking an oath? After all your power come from your oath so having smite at 2nd level while oath at 3rd is kinda backward

[@halt1931]

smite is a universal paladin ability, and doesn't change based on which oath you take - at level 3, you get the specific oath that defines your unique benefits, but they don't have nothing until they pick a subclass. Paladins only specify their oath at level 3, but they aren't powerless until then@@merlinrecon7528

[@kitmewcraft]

"You know what? ... You're right" The thing you don't expect someone to say in an argument

[@mistermaestersirthomas9164]

No Paladin ever needs to check after level 3. Bang a gong, get it on.

[@alupin5935]

My opinion on having an oath at level 3 is you have to prove your devotion to your oath via strength of character

[@chi7818]

I like the oath at level 1 concept because it’s an oath. Like if I am some farmer and decide I want to be a Paladin, I should have to swear an oath from the beginning and uphold that oath the entire time. Waiting till 3 means I can do something that would break my oath at level 1 or 2 and suffer no repercussions. I would accept it though, if you had to go back to level 1 if you did an oath breaking thing or changed your mind.

[@lamarkfromm8064]

I think it is because of multiclassing. You don't want to give such powers to someone with only one level commitment.

[@chi7818]

@@lamarkfromm8064 yeah I see it differently. Waiting till level 3, why can you make an oath at level 1? What’s holding you back? What secret things are you doing that you won’t be held accountable for? I know I can trust a level 1 Paladin with an oath but a level 1-2 Paladin without one? Isn’t that just a normal dude who can stab me in the back with zero repercussions?

[@alupin5935]

I'm not saying you choose your oath at level 3 I'm saying the magic that you get from your oath comes at level three after you show your commitment

[@eslin2845]

@@alupin5935so oath at level 1 but you only get powers at level 3?

[@Surtr174]

To be fair that "some guy in the camp" is a deity ordered by another deity to assist you.

[@crimsoncrusader4829]

Oathbreaker is a diety?

[@discountplaguedoctor88]

@@crimsoncrusader4829 Pretty sure @Surtr174 got him mixed up with Withers, who's all but confirmed to be Jergal.

[@KratosisGod]

I wish the option for oath of conquest was in BG3, it's in the game some enemies use aura of conquest.

[@SpiderwolfHowling]

Isn't Ketheric Thorm a Conquest Paladin? Or is he an Oathbreaker?

[@KratosisGod]

@@SpiderwolfHowling I think he's just an oathbreaker he never uses aura of conquest but he's also a boss enemy so he might have some moves that are unique to him, The only example of a conquest paladin that's coming to mind currently is the githyanki knight you fight in the emperor's hideout in act 3 she uses aura of conquest which adds the frightened status unless you have something to counter it which seems overpowered as hell.

[@5-Volt]

Hard agree. Love the conquest paladin because it shows that you can be an evil paladin without being an oathbreaker. It would have to be changed a bit though because in BG3 the frightened condition makes it to where you can't move.

[@KratosisGod]

@@5-Volt They could just make it so you can't use aura of conquest without expending a spell slot and it only lasts for 10 rounds to balance it out a bit.

[@jpaguilarl]

@@SpiderwolfHowling He's Oathbreaker, he has Aura of Hate.

[@JzanderN]

I kind of wish that for roleplaying purposes a BG3 Paladin would have to do something more like in DnD to restore their oaths rather than just paying money (if an increasing amount), but I understand that for gameplay purposes it was a much better choice to go with something more convenient. As great as it would be for roleplaying, having to seek out specific NPCs to be forgiven would get very tiring and annoying over time.

[@Bodharas]

I wouldn't mind a little side quests to be required to reaffirm your oath. I think it would add depth. It doesn't have to be difficult. Or a series of like 3 deeds or something like that.

[@jacksonhorrocks4281]

It's true though that it comes across as a Paladin is just someone who pays money for their powers rather than having an oath

[@theprinceofawesomeness]

Headcanon, the money you pay is used to pay for a special scroll containing the Atonement Spell required to regain the Oath (and the Oathbreaker guy extort you in the process since he holds a monopoly on Atonements in the reagon)

[@Optimusj1975]

2:52 I swear I believed the MONEY PAYMENT was just a placeholder mechanic for the early access.

[@lordhelmchen3154]

Swearing your oath at level 3 bugged me ever since I started playing DnD 5e. :D It only makes sense in a single scenario: When there is a sort of paladin-school/academy or general paladin order where everyone first trains how to fight and channel magic through your willpower. Then when the aspiring paladin has completed his basic training, he must choose the oath his heart draws him to, after having been taught about the possible oaths for the past months or years. Then he is a true paladin and can venture out into the world. But that is so specific it probably only applies to 1% of all paladin PCs. Most other paladin PCs swear an oath after something important happened or they got recruited by a specific order or mentor that follows only one select oath. And for that to align with your character's personality and game mechanics you just have to swear and oath right as you begin your new life as a paladin.

[@TheDarkPosho404]

No, you swear an oath at level 1, thats why you are a paladin and have powers like divine sense, lay of hands and smite. But only at level 3 after you actually earn that oath you gain the power of that specific oath

[@lordhelmchen3154]

@@TheDarkPosho404 I just checked the flavour text for the level 3 Sacred Oath: "Sacred Oath When you reach 3rd level, you swear the oath that binds you as a paladin forever. Up to this time you have been in a preparatory stage, committed to the path but not yet sworn to it." Of course what you say makes sense and I think it's the common "houserule" if you want to call it that, (and yes I like to use that approach myself) but I was just focusing on the RAW wording which makes it sound like level 1 and 2 are really just paladin academy where you learn to channel your force of will into magic abilities (which is why paladins cast with charisma) but are not locked into any specific oath yet.

[@muditjohar5323]

I believe a lot of dnd classes have this thing of level 1 and 2 being introductory stuff in like academies. Look at bard which is about u graduating from a college after level 3

[@thewolfstu]

1:14 "Why do you have power with out an oath?!"

[@Thrythlind]

Tangential, but one of my favorite in-game instances of a paladin calling out a paladin was with my Paladin of Sharess. Sharess being the CG goddess of hedonism, festhalls, vengeance, and sensual fulfillment. Though I tend to call her the goddess of sex workers, war veterans, abuse survivors, consent, BDSM, and recovery. (seriously her backstory as a goddess is pretty wild). Anyway, my paladin was an ace courtesan of Sharess and a yuan-ti. At one point in the campaign, she joined the Order of the Gauntlet, mostly associated with followers of gods like Helm, Tyr, and other Lawful types. So, the GM set it up for me that while I was talking to the Cleric of Mystra running the local chapter, this Helmite Paladin walked up and got a bit condescending towards my character and praising her for overcoming her "proclivities" and "limited education"... resulting in my character proceeding to entertain the rest of the chapter by asking said Helmite what he thought her education entailed and then deliberately discussing the driest possible points regarding the theories behind the types of therapy and emotional counseling she was trained in. (the fifteen+ minute lecture was fade to black... at table I just said "and then she spends fifteen minutes talking about her profession in most boring way possible.") EDIT: And yes, I played an ace sex worker. Sounds like a joke, but I was really curious to try and explore how a person like me (ace) would interact with the worship of a goddess like Sharess, and why.

[@liberalideas8224]

I dont know how he is going to do it, but I am excited for the barbarian one of these. Easily my favorite class in BG3, a game with many fantastic class options, yet when I try to play them in 5e, only sad noises come out.

[@JediMage]

Try them in pathfinder )

[@CreamCakes420]

3:20 in my camapighn I make it so if your paladin stays true to their path they do get that many spells

[@a.e.5923]

For the oath thing, I actually really like the level 3 thing as it somewhat tells the story of finding and developing into the oath, a bit of a 0 to hero sense, where the Paladin finds who they are and what they want their oath to be

[@DioLT]

"You need to have a full commitment to your oath to receive it's powers" Says my previously level 12 Ranger that got tired of Gloom Stalking and changed to Lvl 12 Paladin, after paying the same guy in the camp that can give you your Oath back.

[@marcus2431]

Different guy. Withers changes class. The oathbreaker knight restores oaths

[@DioLT]

@@marcus2431 Omg you're right, my bad. I forgot it was the oathbreaker who gave you your oath back

[@urbypilot2136]

I always saw the Paladin Oath at level 3 as the equivalent of what BG3 Paladin was talking about taking time to "train and study of every aspect of an oath". Hence we actually in 5E we actually see the level 1 paladin without an oath because they have yet reached the point of being able to commit to one (i.e.: they are still training and studying every aspect of their oath).

[@coltonstewart8698]

That's how the flavor texts reads as well. It's literally just that you can't fully commit and gain the full abilities until level 3 when you have proven yourself. If you got to choose your oath at level one, any Joe Shmoe could be a paladin by saying I vow to do this.

[@benisprobablyangry239]

Yeah but it's a bit weird that a paladin is sat in a tavern not being sure then after beating up a few bandits he's suddenly sure he wants to protect nature

[@hailthequeenFM]

0:23 for everything.

[@sauce2514]

I'll say this as much as I can: EVERY class in BG3 is a 5ed DND Bard.

[@fandomcake5158]

Anyone who says otherwise needs to look at all the shenanigans of a TTRPG bard.

[@RezeedTheDataspirit]

I thought that 5th edition bard had the oath of throwing back.

[@BroderickAmato]

That green screen lighting for your ad was PERFECT! How?!

[@averywhitaker3513]

In what universe do you live where the sun is behind you in both directions at like, 30 degree angles, and also in front of you with a diffuser, while also being directly overhead for everyone and everything not within 3 feet of you?

[@FirstIdeasOnly]

This editing and style format suits you well, you making it look easy, barely an inconvenience. Keep it up :)

[@Deathnotefan97]

5e Paladin: Son of an ugly mother's oath! BG3 Paladin: Oh, you're an Oathbreaker now! 5e Palasin: No I'm not, because our oaths aren't so fragile that they can be lost over such trivial things like yours are

[@Alex-pj8nz]

Because you get your oaths at level 3 so you are just pretend paladin.

[@aquamarinerose5405]

Granted, in 5e paladin's defense. Depending on your DM, you could get away with WAY more and never lose your oath. The mechanics for what actions specifically count as breaking your oath are far more vague than they are in BG3, and many DMs may forget to even actually hold you to your oath, meaning that it might be nigh impossible to actually lose your oath. Also, Ceremony (containing the Atonement ritual which I assume is the primary way a paladin regains their oath) is a First Level Cleric Spell which only requires 25 GP of Silver Dust to do, so if you have a cleric in your party they can probably cover up just about any mistake that's less than complete and total cartoon villainy basically overnight) And Lay on Hands has significantly less HP but can be used in a much more flexible fashion. At level 12, a BG3 paladin can spend 2 charges in a single turn to heal 48 HP while a 5e paladin can dump their entire pool to heal a creature for 60. Or, they can hand out exactly 1 HP to an ally to get them to stand up so they can take a fight-winning action (Which, 5e is a system where Rubber Band healing like this is actively encouraged) Though, it's also really funny how Larian basically just took 5e paladin, a class which is already seen as one of the best in the game, and was like "But what if I made it even better?" Which is also something they did with a lot of subclasses in subtle or not-so-subtle ways. - Giving Swords Bards medium armor and making them completely overshadow Valor. Though the bard as a whole lost out on a vast majority of their Magical Secrets options for it since it's not a curated list. - Completely reworking both the Totem Warrior (now called Wildheart) and Berserker Barbarians by making the former's worst options significantly better and more functional in video-game form, and completely reworking the latter's to instead have a temporary debuff when you use their most potent option (the secondary attack) PLUS the ability to instead use creatures of objects in the environment as improvised weapons by throwing them at motherfuckers as a bonus action without any strain. - Removing the Time Limit on Wild Shape and increasing the radius of Halo of Spores to 20 feet. - Giving Eldritch Knights a wider range of spell options and the ability to cast rituals. Champions the ability that improved critical just widens your crit range (and stacks with anything ELSE that widens your crit range, like magic items), and Battlemaster Rally no longer depends on your Charisma Modifier and a Die Roll. - Monks can still punch people while earing armor for some reason, Flurry of Blows doesn't need an attack action, Four Elements can use a self-heal and ki point regaining ability as an action, removes the ability to spend more Ki to improve your spells and instead makes those bonuses permanent, gave Open Hand Monks an extra d4 of various damages. Wholeness of body increases Ki points and gives you an extra bonus action for a minute. - All ther Paladin Boosts we already mentioned. - completely reworking RAnger's Favored Enemy and Natural Explorer options to instead be an array of more generalized options, and making land's stride just make you immune to difficult terrain of ANY kind. Beastmasters getting massive reworks. - Thief rogue giving you an extra bonus action instead of using cunning action to interact with items (Which I think is kinda sad since throwing grease or achemist's fire as a bonus action would be cool), Wild Magic Sorcerers being able to force OTHER spellcasters to deal with wildmagic, Draconic sorcerers being able to fly permanently instead of having a timer. - Pact of the Blade basically just stealing Hexblade's lunch, and Deepended Pact which replaces Thirsting Blade, gives your Familiars an extra attack, and Tomelocks getting more cool spells once per long rest. alongside EVEN MORE BLEEDING things I can barely bother to list. - turning Jumping into a bonus action that's basically like Flying, avoiding difficult terrain, ground hazards, and reaching hard to reach places. - And probably even more crap I'm barely remembering.

[@cthulhuwu_]

They gave Eldritch Knights ritual spells and took away Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade, not sure that's a trade up tbh

[@aquamarinerose5405]

@@cthulhuwu_ I'll say it's a trade up myself since really you're usually better off using the Attack Action anyway once you HAVE 2 attacks, and Booming Blade becomes reserved for extremely rare situations or War Caster Cheese.

[@_Zabbor_]

"You should probably get yourself checked" level 3 paladin: I'm sorry, is that some kind of joke I'm too healthy to understand?

[@stammesbruder]

I would have thought that "taking an oath" is not the act of deciding what to do with yourself, but reaching the ceremonial point, wherein you are recognized for your paladin deeds this far. This is where nature, the divine, or whatever else acknowledges your dedication - the dedication you put in for 3 levels. It really makes more sense to me this way, than just to read out words from a scroll and be granted the ability to sense unnatural beings and perform small miracles.

[@arekpetrosian4965]

"We just pay off some guy in our camp..." And BOY does that add up after a while...

[@FlashOfSonic]

I've never heard of Paladins suddenly turning into Warlocks when they break their oath.

[@_elifilen]

That's why starting at level 3 in DnD makes more sense and fun

[@hyenascreech2183]

Level 1 peasant Level 2 getting there Level 3 average solider after training completed Level 4 going above average Level 5 established adventurer Basically Baldurs gate said "nah" instead of starting at level three 😂

[@Pseudoaquanaut]

Baldur’s Gate 3 is a video game, so the abilities are based around combat. DnD is more conservative with abilities, because it wants you to think smarter and harder about when you use them.

[@SammyGrimes-lp8ro]

YES! It's a series.

[@TheWonTrueDragon]

I always imagined that Paladins were knights that make a simple oath of justice and righteousness as just a general oath that grants them their base paladin powers and after a lot of training and hard work to prove that they are worthy of wielding greater power (reaching 3rd level) is when they take their "true" oath that defines them and specifies what they fight both for and against at the end of the day.

[@adriankorozan8334]

Cant wait for monks to interact

[@mykolask]

DND be like: HAT: Oh its just some homebrew stuff (take owlbear) BG3: Oh it's just a LOT of homebrew (take gravity, paladin oath at LVL 1, etc..) Wizards: YoU HaVe To PaY To UsE HoMeBrEw!!!

[@electric_boogaloo2114]

"At lest I can Smite on a Bonus Action." :/ TBH I would trade that for for BG3 features.

[@chronenojysk5107]

e5 Paladins: Oh… I broke my Oath… guess I’m a basic fighter now… BG3 Paladins: I AM NOW A NECROMANCER MF!!!!!

[@HeroSabre]

"Jeeze BG3 Pally, I wonder how much better than me you'll be at say... level 13?"

[@atticusshadowmore3263]

I do have to say, I know it would not have been practical for a video game but having to retake your oath through acts of penance is much cooler

[@TheDarkPosho404]

you should choose your oath at level 1, its just that only at level 3 you get the traits after your proved that you earn it

[@DarthPoyner]

You didn't even mention Pallocks. The ultimate pally. Your weapon based on Cha and your divine smites on short rest. It's like heaven.

[@Dhorannis]

Well, the 5e Paladin actually has one advantage. He can activate his Smite the moment he hits something. The BG3 Paladin can technically miss his smites.

[@5-Volt]

You can turn on a "reaction" prompt that allows you to smite after you hit in BG3.

[@UngodlyFreak]

BG3 smites don't consume a spell slot if they miss, so it doesn't even matter.

[@unknownvalor9755]

BG3 paladin jaw is going to drop when he sees that 5e pally riding a griffin into combat.....

[@catkook543]

paladins not getting their subclass at level 1 would be just as silly as warlocks and sorcerors not getting their subclasses at level 1

[@5-Volt]

Meanwhile WotC: Let's make Clerics, Sorcerers & Warlocks get their subclass at level 3 in the new version of 5e. 🤦‍♀️

[@catkook543]

@@5-Volt yeah it's dumb thematically.

[@fluffykitten077]

"Pay off SOME GUY at our camp" Oh yeah, like everyone has A GOD in their camp to fix up their broken oaths!

[@ElementalGamer_-2018]

Not related to the video. But the last D&D session we did was kinda funny, Here's what happened It was a Birthday special session (it was my birthday) Our party was made out of a Aarakocra Artificer, Dragonborn Sorcerer, Dragonborn Druid (me) and a human Paladin. Because it was also the birthday of my character in game, The players were tasked with giving me small presents. 1 of these trinkets, actually saved the life of my character. The DM recently got his hands on a fully complete deck of many things, and i eventually drew the Pit card (It makes a giant hole/pit beneath the character) And because i drew the card, I fell. And my character would have been dead, If not for the trinket i got from the aarakocra artificier. They gave me a feather enchanted with the Feather Fall spell. And activated feather fall and survived, and climbed out of the hole as a spider. So ye, im kinda a lucky unlucky bastard

[@MrAxeswinger]

I can't wait for 5e Monk vs BG3 Monk

[@wildste]

Making references to other KZbinrs is tight

[@Nordrig]

A way to "roleplay fix" the Paladin in 5e is to have him be like a squire during levels 1 and 2, then at lvl 3 he's ready to be knighted and swear an oath to his deity, or otherwise, master. That way you can make it make sense for a Paladin to not have an oath before lvl 3. And why does he have "divine powers" before that, well, he was trained perhaps, prepared in order to take an oath. Kinda like in GoT, you are a squire to a knight and then, once you are a Ser you can join the kingsguard.

[@phuzzychinn]

But the BG3 Paladin forgets 5e Paladin can go ABOVE LEVEL 12

[@Marsh-mo9ml]

"Ha ha, you should really get yourself checked" "For what?" "I don't know" 😭😭😭😭😭😭 This was so funny😭😭😭

[@Foxador]

While funny to talk about just paying 1k to get your oath back, it is worth noting that the guy you pay is basically an OG ancient god...

[@joshbull623]

Should 5.5e or 6.0e be more like BG3 than or something closer to Pathfinder?

[@nicolascouhin2358]

Counterpoint : Conjure steed.

[@SparkShadow212]

Counter counterpoint: Stab

[@weezact7]

Meanwhile, 3e paladin is over there like: "Who are these weak-ass Fighters?"

[@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4]

This was great, and i would love to see the bg3 paladin interact with the other edition's paladins. As i could see edition 1 and 2 roasting bg3 while saying they're playing on hard mode.

[@kemarisite]

Absolutely. Watch as the 1st edition paladin starts counting magic items on later editions (they were limited to one armor, one shield, four weapons, and four other as part of a vow of poverty).

[@gampie13]

palladin as a d&d class, REALY vent downhill in prestige... From the chosen avatar of a god on that crystal sphere, to an atheistic random shmuck, with no loyalties or ties to anything relating to actual character...

[@warningrekt]

Hey man, i need advice for a character im making,i want to make a "mimic knight," a paladin that uses mimics as its armors and wepons and i would like to make an oath that makes sense

[@averywhitaker3513]

They are fundamentally on different levels of character creation. That said, redemption makes some sense, y'know "These paladins face evil creatures in the hope of turning their foes to the light..." Other background based oaths could be conquest or glory. Conquest from the angle of a person dominating multiple creatures to such an extent that even when they have a chance to fight back, while literally enveloping the wearer, they are too afraid to try. Glory from the angle of... well, what's going to inspire more stories and mysticism than living armor and weapons. Now on to the mechanical and lore considerations. Mimics are fricking heavy. Like, max strength barb couldn't even lift a full adult, heavy. For ref, a common mimic (the ones that can talk and might not just kill you) occupy 150 square feet and weigh 4,500 pounds. It takes several years from them to grow up to that size though. Speaking of size, they cannot change their size on a whim. Their volume must be consistent regardless of the form they take. They can be blinded by natural sunlight, though that might have been retconned in 5e because they don't have the sunlight sensitivity trait. Obviously, any of these facts are mutable by your dm, so check with them about this

[@warningrekt]

Thanks man ​@@averywhitaker3513

[@ПростоХорошийТалдарим]

you forgot the best parth , when he oneshots a dragon with 2 smites .

[@КонрадРеван]

Играл паладином голиафом. Отыгрыш поднятия уровня объяснял себе тем, что на первом уровне ты вчерашний оруженосец, отправленный мастером в свободное правило, чтобы найти свой путь и только на третьем уровне, условно, ты выбираешь, какому именно пути плятвы ты следуешь. Ты прочувствовал себя в конфликтах и социальных взаимодействиях, ты уже точно знаешь, каким путём будешь идти - потому ты готов принести свою клятву. В видеоигре все эти условности отыгрыша не нужны, потому там всё проще.

[@KitsuneFyora]

Im not a tabletop gamer.....but that interactive table is lookin mighty tight

[@GreyfauxxGaming]

If you break your oath you dont return to level 1, you become a Oath Breaker. Which is arguably one of the best Paladins.

[@engilaru]

Your power does not come from taking an oath, it comes from your conviction. The oath is a formalization of your convictions. You can have your convictions at level 1, and by level 3 understand them fully enough to form an oath.

[@GrokeytheHunter]

I genuinely don’t see the bg3 one as better in most ways. While oath at level 1 is neat and does make sense, really paladins at level 1 and 2 are still in training which is why they haven’t taken their oath. It’s like asking why a squire doesn’t have his plate armor, because he still needs to train. Channel divinity it just an older term since most paladins do worship gods of some kind, though it channeling oath does work better since things like ancients don’t require gods I definetly prefer the 5e lay on hands. Healing has always been mid in 5e, so being able to constantly res people as an action by just giving one hp instead of half or all of your pool makes it far more versatile Those are kinda my points thanks for coming to my ted talk

[@Avigorus]

At this point, I'm pretty sure the only variant of 5e I'd consider buying would be a BG3 book. Didn't say I'd do it, said I'd consider it. Even if I did, I'd still use the UA True Strike variant and possibly a few more bits from that.

[@crimsoncrusader4829]

5th edition came out in 2014, and bg3 rules is basically 5.5 Edition.

[@Avigorus]

@@crimsoncrusader4829 Wizards is blinded by Hasbro who wants to push that vtt BS new thing and won't even consider BG3 as a candidate... and they don't want to use proper verbiage for their new edition because their real goal is a live service which basically murders edition numbers, so at this point we'll never see an official 5.5

[@FernandoMendoza-dw8nz]

Oath of the ancients as a drow durge was crazy hard 😂 then I found out I could just pay the troll toll 😅

[@richardmiller9883]

Missing that automatic immunity to disease from earlier editions.

[@NeverEverWatchThis]

THIS SERIES IS SO COOL!

[@ericgonzalez934]

Yeah, my party said something about my 5e Paladin not helping much, until I failed a Suggestion spell check, then . I was too strong

[@yamuda]

But BG3 doesn't have Oath of Throwing It Back

[@GameUpOG]

My man is really out here trying to get us to by a $7,000 table.

[@Radiago713]

Re: oaths at level 3: Looks at paladin in nahel bond

[@ponglenis9273]

*Luck of the far realm *Reaction: Divine Smite *Reaction: Branding Smite (Paladin) *Sneak Attack (Rogue level x multiclass) *everburning blade Yeah the damage output is insane

[@gabrielrussell5531]

It's almost like everyone should just get their sub at level 1.

[@fershnibbity330]

Duke is having to shell out big money for new cosplay on these videos and I for one am very appreciative