History-Makers: Plato

For the best experience, project this video onto the wall of a cave.
SOURCES & Further Reading:
“Five Dialogues” by Plato, translation and introduction by G. M. A. Grube - “Introductory Readings in Ancient Greek and Roman Philosophy, Second Edition”, edited by C. D. C. Reeve and Patrick Lee Miller - “Plato Vol I: Euthyphro Apology Crito and Phaedo” from Loeb Classical Library, Edited and Translated by Chris Emlyn-Jones and William Preddy.
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: Plato plato.stanford...
I also have a degree in Classical Studies, specifically in “Classics and Philosophy”
Partial Tracklist: "Sneaky Snitch" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 creativecommon...
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[@M_Free]

I love how Socrates was both the father of western philosophy and also a guy so annoying that it got him executed.

[@bielknife]

I personally prefer so annoying he ended up sentencing himself to death out of stubbornness

[@fullmetallemer6818]

To my limited knowledge, that's how philosophy works

[@ethanstyant9704]

It gets better because he had a chance to get out and he willingly chose not to. "Hey Socrates could you be a little less of a pain in the ass?" I would rather die

[@DewDrops-]

Them probably: “then you shall die!!!”

[@bobs_toys]

​@@ethanstyant9704 that sounds like a common conversation with my daughter.

[@danielgordon84]

Let’s not forget the most important part of Plato: that name means “broad-shouldered” and was given to him by his wrestling coach. Plato was jacked.

[@agustinvenegas5238]

Can't help but picture a ripped 50yo bald guy writing on a piece of parchment, flexing a bit, and then continuing to write

[@DreamingGod05]

Plato is basically what would happen if John Cena decided to be a world-renowned philosopher and not an actor.

[@Ollebolle112]

Plato "the rock" Johnson

[@zipzapper0]

I like to imagine the quote "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" As a response to a request for a rematch.

[@lsedge7280]

@@DreamingGod05 We've never actually seen John Cena and Plato in the same room together.

[@theevilonewholaughs]

"The average citizen had exactly 2 fears, the war with Sparta and talk with socretes" and in that moment I drank my coffee and it came directly out my nose

[@juliasophical]

I'm imagining the poor citizen having that same look on their face as the antagonists do whenever they see Lt. Columbo approaching with more questions. And yes, in my mind the part of Socrates is played by Peter Falk.

[@balabanasireti]

No one asked

[@sytritewarum5720]

​@@balabanasireti And yet, they so graciously volunteered this information despite that. Good on them for sharing an amusing anecdote.

[@Never_Gonna_Give_You_Up._Hi]

@@balabanasireti No one asked you either.

[@joaomrtins]

@Evil Laughs the name checks out 😂

[@smugsneasel]

Socrates being an SCP that could be anywhere in Athens but is more likely to appear when you think of him is hilarious.

[@mrbyzantine0528]

The trick is that you tend to notice something more often when you're thinking about it. In this case, you're more likely to notice the presence of Socrates when thinking about him, at which point he'd turn and lock eyes with you. Then it's too late.

[@freedfg6694]

Item #: SCP-399BC Object class: Neutralized Description: SCP-399BC denotes an anomalous humanoid being, true name "Socrates" this being did not require containment before self-neutralization. This being would walk the streets of the town of Athens philosophizing to the statements made by a certain individual it has targeted. Expressing concern, or even wariness of SCP-399BC being within earshot seems to summon it. But agents could not discern if this was factual or perceived

[@mitchellblake1475]

He's like non-genocidal Voldemort

[@Archgeek0]

@@mitchellblake1475 Today on _Rare Sentences_ ... XD

[@Bluecho4]

Incorrect. He's an SCP who appears whenever you vocalize a definite political, philosophical, ethical, or religious position. Whereupon he deconstructs your worldview, question by question, until you're left a gibbering mess on the floor.

[@Kayclau]

Socrates was like "Plato, my best pupil. You gotta make sure these Athens can never truly get rid of me." And then drank poison.

[@Nuggette]

"Killing me will only make me stronger!"

[@apocyan]

@@Nuggette "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

[@ValeBridges]

@@apocyan "A hero cannot be defeated simply by making him die!"

[@mobgabriel1767]

"now i leave life to enter history"

[@itz_ringlot9168]

Since the name 'plato' comes from his wrestler nickname, I firmly believe that if plato ever "lost" in a philosophical debate, his retoure would be just to deck the other dude

[@Duiker36]

I feel like wrestling doesn't actually include much punching.

[@mcmosfet2856]

As far as I know, no records exist of Plato punching out Diogenes, so sadly Plato probably left his wrasslin' days behind him.

[@ShanRenxin]

It’s all fun and games until someone suplexes you in the middle of the symposium

[@yetanother9127]

@@Duiker36 Modern wrestling doesn't, but pankration (the form of wrestling Plato practiced) definitely did include punching, kicking, and all sorts of other techniques that wouldn't be considered "wrestling" today. Only biting and eye-gouging were forbidden.

[@Blue-Maned_Hawk]

Nah, nah, he'd be happy to "lose". He'd deck them if they were unwilling to change their mind in the face of evidence they have no counter to.

[@maxteraform]

Plato was probably the wisest featherless chicken the world had ever seen

[@priyankadeshpande1514]

Ayy, I still love that anecdote so much

[@jacks1368]

Wasn't it a featherless chicken?

[@maxteraform]

@@jacks1368 Yes, and I corrected it now

[@Johnrich395]

I got that reference!

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

It's either a "plucked chicken" or "a miserable pile of secrets."

[@summerwatson3794]

Wasn’t it Socrates’ trial where the margin to have him executed was larger than the margin that found him guilty? Like, the margin for guilty out of a jury of 500 was something like 280-220 but the margin to kill him was 390-110? So basically they was part of that jury was like, “this man is innocent but DAMN he’s ANNOYING!” 😂😂 Edit: I checked my source, the margin to execute him was 360-140

[@AegixDrakan]

That one particular anecdote just makes this whole thing even more incredible. People who voted for him not to get punished in the first vote flipped and voted for his death in the next one. Now that's nutty!

[@eclipserepeater2466]

Kind of amazing that 140 out of 501 jurors thought it would be legit to give him his proposed "punishment" :p

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@AegixDrakan Given the proposed punishment, I'd think they could have flipped their vote in reaction to his behaviour like "Okay, he's clearly of bad faith here and don't want to accept a punishment". In the modern judicial system, I think it would be the equivalent of contempt to court XD

[@nidhogg8446]

I like to think it's the people that had only heard of him but never knew him First like "Okay this guy can Not be that bad, and those aren't even real crimes this is weird" Then after actually hearing him talk "Ok no fuck that guy"

[@ameliahall7337]

It's because he didn't come up with a real counter offer for a punishment, once the court had already found him guilty the jurors knew he had to be punished so they voted for the actual punishment because Socrates' own suggestion was a joke

[@averyn34]

Diogenes: I promise I'm not going to argue with Plato tonight *3 drinks later* Diogenes: Hey Plato why do you fucking hate poor people

[@TheQuote0]

Lies. Diogenes would never promise that.

[@averyn34]

@@TheQuote0 Fair enough

[@rabanryssel137]

​​@@TheQuote0 He would, but then he would throw feces at plato because it doesn't count as arguing if you Don't speak while doing it

[@stevejakab274]

I'll take Diogenes over Plato and Socrates any day.

[@CollinMcLean]

@@stevejakab274 Diogenes actually revered Socrates and despised Plato because he considered him an improper successor to Socrates' legacy, supposedly he instead held his pupil Antisthenes in high regard.

[@mcmosfet2856]

Socrates: "What is a human?" Plato: "A human is a featherless biped" Diogenes: "Look, a chicken with the feathers plucked off, what a human, lol" Soc & Plato: "Dude, wtf?"

[@Significantharrassment]

What a based fatherless biped Diogenes was...

[@SaintofQuartz]

A miserable pile of secrets.

[@sytritewarum5720]

​@@SaintofQuartz I mean, yes, but now I'm questioning if Diogenes would have even qualified under this definition... I mean, it's diogenes...

[@shadowldrago]

I like that Socrates wasn't just a contrarian, he legitimately just loved philosophy.

[@idkwhattotype4704]

“Dude I’m genuinely curious! Why are you accusing that man of impiety? What is impiety to you?” And on and on and on and on and on! And Socrates would just have a good day, aware that he probably ruined the other person’s beliefs

[@jeffgoldblunt]

​@@idkwhattotype4704 socrates was just autistic

[@AmberMaytions]

@@idkwhattotype4704 I’ve tried it several times and I usually just get ignored or mocked for it. Funny how when people are asked to explain their ideas, no matter how genuinely, they’d rather do anything else lol.

[@idkwhattotype4704]

@@AmberMaytions Based on what I have observed, no one likes to question their own beliefs when it is prompted by someone else. Most of the time, self reflection only feels satisfying when you yourself did it.

[@TAP7a]

People tend to be intimidated by people with overt driving passions and goals, and to then dress that up as annoyance and frustration is just classic ego protection Of course, these days people who are both financially successful and highly driven and goal hungry tend to be awful people, so a certain level of prejudicial distaste is somewhat justified (adding the financially successful clause tends to filter out those unwilling to engage in behaviours like exploitation, which is the foundation of all wealth for the past… ever)

[@15oClock]

Socrates was that guy that goes around with a microphone in public, interviewing random people.

[@santiagogarza8121]

Only he was actually smart

[@DDlambchop43]

so, he was a sovcit?

[@CollinMcLean]

I'm now just imaging a muscular Billy Eichner or Jordan Klepper in a toga.

[@charlesatanasio]

Unironically, yes.

[@grapeshot]

Plato did not lose his philosopher status. Unlike Pluto that lost its Planet status.

[@emmarichardson965]

TOO SOON!!

[@lalitthapa101]

Ufff Pluto was kicked out from the planet gang but this one will hurt the dwarf planet the most⚰

[@corgi42069]

You're grounded.

[@corgi42069]

@@lalitthapa101 Nah, Pluto is probably happier as one of the larger dwarf planets than the tiniest regular planet.

[@kingofdragons7]

At least he didn't lost his status a god

[@patrickg7198]

As a man with a philosophy degree myself, I can attest that The dialogues are some of the most fun works to read

[@CAP198462]

What made them fun? What even is fun? Can you know something is fun while doing it or is it only after it’s finished that you call it fun?

[@annabeinglazy5580]

Ironically i can remember His cave metaphor from Back in high school and it was the one Bit of philosophy i Loathed. But that was because i disliked epistemology in General and thought ethics and social theory were the "useful" philosophy. I was 18 and man, it showed. Would be interesting to read it now that im 30 and im a Bit less obnoxious 😅

[@toprak3479]

@@annabeinglazy5580 Same

[@balabanasireti]

No one asked

[@menhera758]

​@@CAP198462OH NO HES BACK

[@Wertsir]

The man who fears only Socrates and Sparta is a man who has never met Diogenes.

[@simonschnedl]

To be fair, it was easier to avoid Diogenes because you could smell him from a mile away.

[@DragonbIaze052]

To be fair, Diogenes only went after the influential. If you were some random person on the street, you were (mostly) safe.

[@dorkandproudofit]

I'm absolutely SHOCKED that you haven't done Livy. Virtually 99.9% of everything we know about Rome is thanks almost exclusively to him, his style inspired generations of historians on a level rivaling Herodotus and Thucydides, and he made sure to put as much day-to-day detail in his history as he could without simply limiting himself to the actions of the major players. TL;DR, History Makers: Livy next.

[@pyropulseIXXI]

What if Livy just made it all up? Kinda sketchy having just a single source, is it not? And that source isn't even the original source, or a copy of the original, but a suppose copy of a copy of a copy etc. The earliest 'sources' we have don't even go back to the renaissance, as they somehow lost all the originals, and they also somehow lost the copies of those originals History is just made up, and we agree on whatever narrative it is for convenience, otherwise we'd have to admit we know far less than we think we do

[@dorkandproudofit]

@pyropulse The same could be argued about Herodotus and Thucydides, both of whom are featured on this channel. Like them, Archaeology has to a good extent confirmed a lot of what Livy wrote down.

[@pyropulseIXXI]

@@dorkandproudofit Archaeology has not confirmed anything that was written down. There are massive room for interpretation, and they 'fit' things to the given paradigm. For instance, battles happen everywhere; whatever they find by itself, as the pure evidence, does not tell us the story of what happened or who fought; that comes from the paradigm and narrative, of which is established via such sources as "Liv." But if you just look at the pure evidence from archeology, we wouldn't learn a fraction of what we learn from so-called 'legit books' and 'ancient sources.' I am in academia, I know how the process works. "We" are a modern day priestly class

[@dorkandproudofit]

@@pyropulseIXXI So... by your logic, there's literally no point in studying ANY history of ANY era on the off chance that it MIGHT all be lies.

[@blackjoker2345]

@@dorkandproudofit No, Science by it's nature must be taken on faith, but the faithful must also hold the belief that they should also be ready to drop everything they once believed in in the face of greater evidence. Nothing is ever "Proven" in science, just a list of things we've yet to disprove.

[@elizatilsizoglou5946]

Socrates, 2500 years after his death, still instills fear in the hearts of Greek students trying to mind their business

[@Makaneek5060]

You there! Tell me at once, do you mean student Greeks or Greek-students?

[@elizatilsizoglou5946]

​@@Makaneek5060 I mean Greek (ethnicity) high schoolers, who have to put up with ancient Greek in order to get in university

[@Makaneek5060]

@@elizatilsizoglou5946 Veeery interesting my student, now why would the youth be ashamed of their countryman who gave his all to keep a few minds in shape?

[@thanasiisdi288]

​@@Makaneek5060it's more so that ancient greek is hard but also I don't think greek schools do any Plato in school so idk

[@arest.3703]

@@thanasiisdi288 They 100% do in highschool. I still have lingering trauma from that and it's been almost 7 years since then.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

The idea that a rogue stone in the middle of the road, a suspicious looking guard, a rattling on a boat, a woman you saw in the street, or a shadow peaking from the aqueduct could be Socrates is hilarious to me. The jury decided to implement the “Socrates Nowhere” System.

[@shadowclaw7210]

Now im imagining Socrates as Majima from Yakuza

[@awesomehpt8938]

Plato’s cave was actually where he kept all his collectors items figurines, Xbox, PC, HD TV, manga, movies and his gamer chair.

[@brya9681]

All his funko pops

[@blacksage2375]

Surprisingly accurate since just as the cave showcases only shadows of the real… so too do nerds need to leave the cave and touch grass from time to time.

[@alchemicpink2392]

None of his Socrates figurines had panties and all of them had correct anatomy.

[@AllAnimeVibes]

@@alchemicpink2392 just like a nerd likes

[@isaacjensen7318]

And Saddam Hussein

[@AMoniqueOcampo]

I minored in philosophy in college. Plato's allegory of the cave still lives rent free in my mind.

[@santiagogarza8121]

Does it? Or is it just the flame casting the shadow of the allegory to the back of your mind?

[@Tusitala1967]

You must adore West World.

[@stevejakab274]

Unfortunately that's the philosophy of conspiracy theorists around the world, and has caused great harm occasionally (see: Jan 6th, 2021).

[@HiHi-ed2ud]

I want a plat-o waffles

[@nathanthaxton7492]

I took would like a plat-o waffles.

[@Private-Potato]

@@nathanthaxton7492 too bad, I took the last plat-o-waffles.

[@brantbowers6368]

Got 'em

[@nathanthaxton7492]

@@Private-Potato How dare

[@Private-Potato]

@@nathanthaxton7492 I dare

[@SarcasticPossum]

The fact that OSP's version of Plato's head was accurately edited into the ancient artworks is an amazing detail. You never cease to amaze me guys!

[@luigiboi4244]

I knew that Plato was quite possibly as jacked as Henry Cavill or Jason Momoa, but learning that Socrates was basically a teleporting nightmare was a real surprise for me.

[@joshuaizly5502]

Weren't they all jacked because the Gymnasiums were the place to socialise and discuss philosophy in Athens?

[@stewartgames6697]

@@joshuaizly5502 But Plato was mega jacked because he was a champion belt winning wrestler in his youth. "Plato" was actually a shortening of "Platon", or "Broad", his wrestling handle that his coach gave him because he had such a wide back and strong, manly shoulders. He also was hunchbacked and had a weird, lumpy skull, hence Blue calling him a "goblin" in the video, but he was a powerful and strong goblin!

[@foldabotZ]

@@stewartgames6697 It's like if Dwayne Johnson became a philosophy scholar instead of an actor after retiring from wrestling but everyone still call him "The Rock."

[@joshuaizly5502]

@@stewartgames6697 oh I did not know that, thanks for the anecdote

[@joshuaizly5502]

@@foldabotZ yeah that and also imagine people in thousands of years thinking his name was Therock without understanding the meaning of the nickname or even that it is one.

[@uria3679]

Who hopes Red talks about the Myth where Hera gets beaten up by a Spartan Queen, the Myth about the Chinese Femboy defeating the four dragons, or the myth where a Aztec god was tricked into sleeping with their sister

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

Or the Trojan prince that enchanted ZEUS of all people, even before Apollo.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

This comment will take weeks for me to fully digest and it's not even a synopsis of the actual stories

[@gracequach6769]

Classic Spartan

[@miro.georgiev97]

​@@theanimeunderworld8338Do you mean Ganymede? Because it's not surprising at all that horny bastard Zeus would also fancy a boy (emphasis on boy and not male more broadly-the Greeks did NOT approve of grown men pursuing other grown men, but they did approve of grown pursuing minors) as well as all the women with whom he slept.

[@miro.georgiev97]

Hera got beaten up by a Spartan queen?

[@ascina9222]

During philosophy class about a year ago, I found out that one of my friends, who is half greek, mom wanted to name him Sokrates. And now having learned about how Sokrates was actually like the name would've fit him so well. I had many annoying discuccions with him where he'd continue to poke holes in my perceived reality. On a side note: My dad wanted to name me Confucius, which would've been hilarious because I am quite intrigued by his thoughts.

[@rudolfambrozenvtuber]

Do you think nepotism good actually?

[@lukegauci1159]

OMG using the Galactic Republics emblem on The Republic is pure genius! Well played Blue, well played!

[@maniacalskipper]

Best guide i learned for determining the role of socrates in a dialog is that when plato is presented as a character it was an arguement posed by socrates. When plato is not present, socrates is being used as a character. This isnt flawless but it was the best rule of thumb i learned from my classics professors.

[@queenofthesalt5199]

Ok, since the question at the end was “why don’t we do this more often” I kinda of want to give my own personal answer as to why. For one, I believe that the discussion, over millennia, has transformed from a method of discovering truth, to a method of showing intellectual dominance over another. Discussion using the Socratic method, especially in today’s spaces, can feel aggressive, stepping forward into someone’s personal mind to see what they think. A discussion is something that, nowadays, we like to see as a fight of words, trying to thrust your ideals on top of someone else’s, instead of trying to figure out why someone believes those ideals in the first place. That’s just a small part of it, but I think it’s a part of it.

[@akhragee]

I'll add that this isn't an "over millennia" thing, it's just the last century. Just look at how much of Renaissance and Industrial thought is documented in letters between both friends and rivals. It was, very specifically, the advent of *live-broadcast* political debate that started transforming the entire concept of debate from "collaborating in search of truth" into "convincing the audience that you're right."

[@ButterflyScarlet]

I agree with this, especially with the advent of social media and the need to moralize every aspect of one's life and entertainment. It is not enough to simply disagree or dislike someone, you have to find some ethical flaw in them to justify those feelings. I've seen actual writers claim they refuse to read classical works because the 1800s author was a bigot and therefore their impact on modern literature is worthless. Socratic discussion at its heart is supposed to be an exchange and a dialogue. Nowadays any debate is about beating the other person over the head with your opinion until they either agree or give up. (Disclaimer, bigotry is still wrong. I'm not playing centrist here)

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

​​@@akhrageeIsn't that the point of a debate: convince you that your point is right? Can we really describe the Socratic Method as a "debate" or a "dialogue"?

[@VivaLaDnDLogs]

We've all had that friend who is so interesting and/or opinionated that we can't help but imagine them in various situations reacting in that trademark way they do.

[@JDarach]

Socrates was just a contrarian though. The man couldn't accept an answer. And demanding that they kill him when he didn't have to die is also just contrary. Self made martyrs aren't actually martyrs

[@Teifling]

I love Socrates and Diogenes for their absolute status of being the most irritating people of their time, yet also being so influentially intelligent and persuasive that students followed them around as they accosted people over living their lives and saying stupid things within earshot.

[@The_RayBlast]

Interesting that Galileo also chose the dialogue as a way to show his ideas of a heliocentric system in his writings thereby allowing the reader to draw their own conclusions as well.

[@thomasrinschler6783]

Except he named the debater on the geocentric side "Simplicio" (basically "Stupid") and made him look the fool on more than one occasion. Galileo only very thinly veiled which side of the debate he thought was the correct one. That, and personally insulting the Pope, who was a personal friend and had allowed (even encouraged) him to write the book, by putting the Pope's words into Simplicio's mouth at the very end, got him into all his subsequent trouble...

[@stevejakab274]

Yeah, there was nothing like "draw your own conclusions". It was about science, not philosophy, and Galileo knew he was right.

[@simonschnedl]

​@@stevejakab274 There's a difference between being right and being a dick about it.

[@lettersandnumbers21]

@@stevejakab274 Galileo had no grounds to 'know' he was right because he could not answer the legitimate scientific objections to the apparent absence of the stellar parallax implied by a heliocentric model, and did not offer further justification for such a model over competing geoheliocentric models that did not have the same implications. Even among heliocentric models, Galileo's played second fiddle to Kepler's, because Galileo insisted on circular orbits even in the face of pretty substantial evidence in favour of Keplerian elliptical orbits.

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

I mean, the Dialogue form gives him a cover to espouse his thoughts while satisfying the censors by presenting their views in an equal standing. It's basically reading the position papers of two litigants in a court trial and the reader is the judge who decides which of the two is true and factual...

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

I hope when we get Red's video it might be another mythical pride month video for the other mythological figures who didn't make the first cut From Greece there's Hermaphroditus, the bi-gendered deity of love Ganymede, who was a Trojan prince who attracted the attention of Zeus and made into the god of homosexual love and desire The west wind Zephyros (can't remember if he was mentioned or not) was part of a love triangle with Hyacinthus against Apollo Hestia also deserves some recognition as the oldest child of Kronos and Rhea and one of the three virgin goddesses with Artemis and Athena. She swore off love due to a very very unfortunate incident with another god and has dedicated her time to familiar happiness and stability

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Same, kinda wish that she did an yearly pride video like her spooky videos

[@sniccups8390]

Red does have a video about Hyacinthus somewhere on the channel.

[@Plotatothewondercat]

I mean, the myth of hermaphroditus isn't really the most aspirational tale, it's essentially a story of a nymph being rejected by a god and begging another god to override the nonconsent, with the externally imposed solution this second god bestowed upon them being "Okay, you're the same person now".

[@johanbuis1369]

Ah yes, Suicidal Socrates. That's what our class nicknamed him when we read Apology, Crito and Phaedo in Ancient Greek class. At 16-17 y/o we didn't quite appreciate the philosophy for what it wanted to teach yet and mostly just went about poking fun at how eager Socrates seemed to die.

[@simonschnedl]

Average Teenager.

[@bahnankhayre9534]

Bro this was me with eternal recurrence I was like “what do you mean I can’t change anything then what’s even the point?” Gosh I was so ignorant probably still am

[@WhammyReviews]

I remember in my undergrad political theory course we read the one where the man was convincing Socrates to run away from execution and we were then assigned to write a short paper about whether or not Socrates was wise to note take it (or something like that). In the Socratic tradition I started with questioning on what is "wise" and then spent the rest of the paper trying to determine what is "wisdom" in that context that somehow got me into utilitarianism (I was in a big utilitarianism kick, and still am really). I think the main idea was that before I could answer whether Socrates was wise or not we had to define wise in the context of the relationship between law and society. I don't know, we're talking almost a decade and a half ago. Anyway, I just remember getting an A on the paper and being informed to please not do that again and just answer the prompt as given.

[@petica98]

We're not going to talk about blue putting the star wars republic logo on a plato book at all? Also banger video as always

[@mrbyzantine0528]

How else would you recognize the book? The title or author? You've taken the bait of debate!

[@MadDragon-lb7qg]

Yep, I recognised it too!

[@ambroseelon9989]

I came here to say this but in my heart I knew it had been said

[@sidestep5435]

Socrates is like that one friend who responds with every answer with "why"

[@local_cryptid3624]

Wow! It's the guy that my friends thought was Mickey Mouse's dog and not a historical figure!

[@amehak1922]

That's Pluto, and he's a god.

[@pinkcowqueen]

@@amehak1922 And a dwarf planet

[@amehak1922]

@@pinkcowqueen it's a real planet

[@pinkcowqueen]

@@amehak1922 Astrophysics disagrees

[@amehak1922]

@@pinkcowqueen astrophysics is a collection of data, it doesn't have any opinions

[@gabrielmachadobsb]

As Eleanor Shellstrop once said, who died and left Plato in charge of philosophy?

[@amehak1922]

She mentioned Aristotle, and Chidi said Plato

[@shadowldrago]

Socrates, if the video is to be believed.

[@amehak1922]

@@shadowldrago Socrates was too busy helping Bill and Ted

[@billywarren007]

BEHOLD! PLATO’S KZbin VIDEO!

[@chloesmith7871]

this is fanboying at its best, both from blue towards plato and from plato towards socrates

[@MMurine]

Plato goes impossibly hard. Highly recommend the read. I'm fanboying too.

[@paulenan9636]

"This disheveled goblin" Daniel Greene is Socrates confirmed

[@joshuapietsch7602]

Socrates was the real bane of Athens sent by the Spartans to distract them

[@jeremygilbert7989]

Wow, talk about good timing! I literally just left a video reacting to Twitter memes where a post from someone tried to use the positioning of bread to argue that a hot dog isn't a sandwich, it's a taco. They used diagrams to define different foods, one showing that having layers is what defines a cake and someone commented "Diogenes runs up to Plato holding a Big Mac and shouts "Behold! A cake!"" which had me rolling and then the very next video I see is this. Well played, Blue.

[@doctorsammy883]

Socrates was clearly the inspiration for the Xenomorph

[@NicoBabyman1]

What? Explain your case.

[@cosmicsmith836]

Ill be honest I'm not really for philosophy but this has actually made me want to read plato. The only other philosophy book I've read was "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu but that was basically Sun yelling at young princes and nobles that they can't make their men march for 15 hours with low supplies.

[@sarahshoots1st]

Socrates didn't exist, he was Plato's OC

[@TacComControl]

So what you're saying is that Socrates was history's first "I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS" troll, and that he was So bad about it that an entire city of people decided he should die for it.

[@TacComControl]

As for Plato's writing of Socrates and to the question of where the real Socrates ended and the character began... I dare say the character was there the whole time. Plato is a fanboy. His entire writing depicts his "hero" in the most "Heroic" light possible, he's basically like those really gross Kpop fans who write really, REALLY detailed fan fiction about their favorite kpop boi and what they'd like to do with them, wherein the only part of the personality in the story that matches the real person is whatever is directly portrayed by the real person, which is itself a character put on in order to gather that audience, while everything else portrayed in the writing is the writer's hero worship and wishful thinking. Seriously, you thought Dante's shitty self-insert fanfic was bad, Plato's reads like one of those twitter threads where the writer forgot that people who know them through work can read their feed and follow them and tend to get really, REALLY detailed.... grossly so.... about something they want to do with a certain celebrity or something.

[@miro.georgiev97]

​@@TacComControl Oh, my God, this makes so much sense!

[@Shankfilms]

"If you squeeze the lever, I will turn into spaghetti. Please dont eat me, but you can have a small bite. I'm non-toxic. " -Plato Truly inspirational ❤

[@lata1224]

Blue underestimates my desire to NOT read Plato, and my other desire of playing the new Tears of the Kingdom game.

[@bywatergal4177]

I tend to get annoyed by the dialogues because of how many relevant ideas are left out of Socrates' "tell me something and I'll make you concede unknowns about it" method (which I mostly blame Plato's structuring for) but thinking about the way it's put here, you're exactly right: I AM thinking more critically about the work and I AM asking more questions than if it was really as straightforward as it seemed. So yeah, thank you

[@chimera9818]

Midrash recognitions Midrash is basically arguments between two historical rabbi (some were the actual people and some weren’t)

[@erinyes3943]

7:25 Love the way blue demonstrates multiple types of nerd behavior at the same time

[@John_Weiss]

1:00 So, something I learned back in my classics class, decades ago: Alcibiades once slept with Socrates - because in Ancient Athens, "sleeping your way to the top," was not only allowed, it was required - but complained that Socrates _never touched him once all night._ Which, for someone described as a major hottie like Alcibiades, had to be a _major humiliation!_

[@JonMI6]

That “Allegory of the Cave” reference in the description…

[@delcastilloarthur]

The Galactic Republic logo was a nice touch lol

[@CaptainphoenixofficialYT]

The fact that the video is named Plato yet focuses more on Socrates is just the perfect irony icing on the cake.

[@grapeshot]

Socrates able to teleport like Slenderman.

[@faenethlorhalien]

This makes me realize that the way I truly learn is Socratic in nature. I need to discuss what I read and research with someone else. It's been like this all my life: I remember when I was studying a shitload of Japanese in Tokyo in the very early 2000s and nothing would stick if I wouldn't speak to Japanese friends at the end of the week, and then my MA and PhD theses came into form via me discussing with my mentors, rather than any other way. I guess some things never go out of fashion.

[@ShunShunRikka]

This just reinforces the conclusion I came to while reading about Plato and Socrates for class, they are brilliant and absolute bastards for *making* people actually use critical thinking. It should happen in education more often, but the idea of that actually happening makes me want to weep. 😂 Dichotomy of student, lol.

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

It would be nice if I am not getting punished or ridiculed for saying outside the collective narrative...

[@hansoskar1911]

Plato makes a lot more sense if you know he won a crown of olive in wrestling at the olympic games so a lot of people were rightly hesitant to tell him to his face that he is wrong.

[@LynnHermione]

This is where I remind everyone Plato wrote top/bottom discourse on Achilles and Patroclus.

[@ironwolf5802]

My Mom always warned me if you're too annoying someone would kill me. Guess she heard of Plato and a city just wanting him to leave any way possible.

[@Eunacis]

Athens gave Socrates a one way ticket to tutoring Hades.

[@alberich3963]

Fun fact: Socrates is Hades biggest fan

[@user-sl1wt1dv4y]

they didn't describe socrates, they described the first redditor

[@dragonbear98]

Wait... was that the Galactic Republic Symbol for on the cover of the Republic? Shout out to my Jedi/clone friends then!

[@arturoaguilar6002]

5:29 And that's why nowadays is encouraged for the accused to have a lawyer. In a related note, on the 90's, LucasArts made a click-and-point adventure game called Indiana Jones and the Fate of the Atlantis, where the legendary Hermocrates (the mythical Lost Dialogue of Plato) is an important plot device; unfortunately because it's supposed to give you clues to solve puzzles (instead of discussing philosophy), it doesn't have the open questions that the real Plato's Dialogues have.

[@Stoneworks]

It's always a good day when Blue uploads a History Makers

[@paleozoey]

screenshotting this like it's a bigfoot sighting

[@Stoneworks]

@@paleozoey Hi Zoey how are you

[@paleozoey]

@@Stoneworks you should unban my good friend myllye she did nothing wrong. xraying and ban evasion is a victimless crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111!!!!!!

[@loadeddice4696]

Well There's Your Problem is a podcast that employs the Socratic Method to discuss engineering disasters. "But first we must ask the question...what is a bridge?"

[@nathancarter8239]

I know you probably didn't have time, but I love that Plato is remembered by his wrestling name instead of his actual name (according to Diogenes Laertius) Aristocles. I also love the dialogues of philosophy in the Talmud and Plato's books. Something my own religion, Christianity, is *sorely* lacking and _desperately_ needs.

[@amehak1922]

He had a lot of platonic relationships.

[@Theo_the_cat_guy]

Personally I think of plato as pretty solidly a hack, and while he has made great contributions to philosophy, it cannot be ignored that he was not nearly as smart or clever as he thought he was, and he often said things that were clearly assumed rather than pondered

[@danielhale1]

Part of the reason I've not had much interest in philosophy is it's so easy to do when you have no standards and are just there to batter people down. Anyone I've met who identified as a philosopher turned out to just be a narcissist who loved to fast-talk, and treated philosophy as a collection of weapons to add to their kit. I can imagine why Socrates was so disliked. these discussions are really hard to work through even when you're talking to people who genuinely want to find the truth. And I've seen lesser people turn philosophy into nothing more than a tool for abuse. I wonder how often through history it was actually used well vs as a way to curb-stomp others for an ego boost or cheap political gain. I'm _suspicious_ of Socrates.

[@waitingonamonabel]

I genuinely learned more from this video than my entire semester in Philo 10 class

[@doctorsammy883]

Also whenever I think about philosophy I’d always be talking to someone, either to my very real brother or my very not real imaginary counter.

[@envinyatar5011]

I really hope you would cover Alicibades someday since you mentioned him in the video. It would be so fun seeing you summarise the life of this absolute menace of a person in one video lol

[@shadowldrago]

He already has.

[@emilygillock3803]

It's an older video though so a remake with more absolute shenaniganry would be awesome

[@envinyatar5011]

@@shadowldrago ooh, he does! welp, thank you - looks like I have something waiting to be watched now

[@shadowldrago]

@@envinyatar5011 Happy to help.

[@MMurine]

Alcibiades was the most dangerous twink in history.

[@yaelgoldfarb2447]

Great video! I would like to note that what you are talking about in Judaism exists not only in midrash, but also in talmud (and I can argue that also in responsa but that's a little bit less)

[@fullmoontales1749]

Plato used the Death of the Author to engage in philosophical discussion and help us find our own answers rather than just tell us what a given cocnept is Socrates didn't seem to realise that without wriitng, ideas can be forgotten if no one is around to remember them personally. Although he probably would have had an answer to that

[@theotherohlourdespadua1131]

I seriously would try to debate Socrates on that. Imagine framing it like a Zeno's paradox...

[@Dr.J.Konopinski]

Fun fact: Plato isn't even his real name, it was a nickname he used, most likely related to his wrestling days. Yes, he was a wrestler too.

[@andrw2354]

I love History-Makers: it's such a good way to explore different genres and connect important figures from other fields of study to their historical context. I also love Plato (I started the Symposion this very day!), so I must really thank you for this wonderful gift.

[@paranoidlizard6338]

9:04 is the solomon mentioned in this segment the same king solomon as the one mentioned in torah? The one who, among other things, said they should cut a baby in half to find out who the real mom was? I’m just asking cause i guess i never really knew the time period when he was said to exist in relation to other world events

[@theanimeunderworld8338]

Nice job, Blue ❤ I love me some Plato

[@iiiivvvv9986]

Im probably getting the wrong impression of this video, but as a child i had a dream of writing a book that just has a ton of questions like "what is the meaning of life" and its gratifying to see that something like that already exists

[@brentmay3878]

Yes Overly Sarcastic first thing in my day!

[@brentmay3878]

Plato homework!

[@TheRealEvilkitten3]

as a jew, i'm also baffled by how unwilling people are to question stuff

[@nix98zlcy]

I am a simple man, I See Plato, I click

[@brettspock8658]

Thanks Blue, love the History Makers Series!

[@shadowfire6117]

Last I time I was this early, Sparta was still powerful.

[@mcintoshpc]

0:11 HE COULD BE YOU. HE COULD BE ME. HE COULD EVEN BE-

[@CAPace09]

"Long story, blame the Romans." Words to live by.

[@bernardin5947]

More philosophers PLEASE!!!!!! Thank you for this one! ❤️🌸

[@bluesbest1]

I think the pessimistic answer to "Why doesn't every philosopher do this?" is "Because they want to be right." The ideal isn't to make the audience think, but to convince them of your own wisdom and have them say "Oh wow! You're so smart!" which, naturally, is an ego boost, providing all the motivation the "philosopher" needs.

[@greenredblue]

Tried to read Plato once. Socrates encountered a young guy who wanted someone to like him, and Socrates started walking him point-by-point through The Game. I was like, okay, so _this_ is happening now.

[@miro.georgiev97]

Where did you read this? Do you remember?

[@johntheidumean7194]

@@miro.georgiev97 I think what GreenRedBlue is describing might be the Platonic Dialogue called the Lysis, which is often said to be about friendship, which is true in one sense, but it opens with a discussion of a young man’s crush on another young man

[@greenredblue]

@@johntheidumean7194 Yes, the one I'm thinking about is about a friendship-ish relationship between two young men. (Sorry I don't remember the name..) I say "ish" because the crusher heavily emphasizes the physical attractiveness of the crushee.

[@TubeTAG]

"I'm baffled this isn't the main way we do this." You're baffled why people like the idea of a concrete "truth" rather than the unending observation, analysis, consideration and re-analysis of our reality?

[@miro.georgiev97]

The Examined Life admittedly _does_ sound pretty exhausting in theory and practice. It means you can never just sit down and rest and be _satisfied_ with something.

[@mera-mori]

I love the idea that Socrates was just this menace who liked to cause problems for people on purpose - but it would be funnier if he didn't realise that was what he was doing.

[@dieterdiepaprika6224]

So you're telling me that socrates was an acient redditor huh?

[@motivemystic]

Wow, I absolutely love this video about Plato! It's so fascinating to learn about the history-makers who have shaped our world. I've always admired Plato's philosophies and his concept of the Allegory of the Cave. Projecting this video onto a wall of a cave sounds like an incredible way to immerse myself in his wisdom. Thank you for sharing this insightful content!

[@michaelodonnell824]

Any "Critical" ( as opposed to "fanboy") reading of the Dialogues should begin from a VERY Basic question - how much of the dialogues are "Socrates" and how much are "Plato"? And it's not as if those of us coming from a Judeo Christian perspective should be unaware of this problem - Biblical Scholars have long and involved discussions about the Pauline Corpus - ie which of the ascribed "Paul" Letters in the Christian Scriptures are Actually by Paul; which "Deutero Paul" (possibly someone "inspired by Paul" (kind of like Socrates and Plato!)); and which have NOTHING to do with Paul (The Plato/Socrates parallel here might be "The Republic" which "Stars" Socrates, but probably had absolutely NOTHING to do with Socrates). Indeed it is more than likely that the, fundamentally Working Class Socrates would have very little to do with, or time for, the Elitist, Aristocracy proposed by Plato. But Fanboys will be fanboys...

[@eustacia03]

Right around the ten minute mark Blue gives us the basis for "ask 10 rabbis get 12 answers" and the answer to why my extended family celebrates holidays by getting together in large groups to argue about everything. 😂 Would love to see a video on the Midrashic tradition.

[@buildertherobloxian4731]

I know it was Talked about in Strong Female Characters but it hasn't been gone in Depth; Trope Talk: GenderBends