Pathological Demand Avoidance - an ADHD & AvPD perspective

I discuss Pathological Demand Avoidance and the relationship I observe between it, ADHD, and Avoidant Personality Disorder.
*** One thing I didn't mention in the video that I could see causing some confusion is how I could meet the criteria for being "superficially social but lacking understanding" - doesn't having AvPD automatically negate being "superficially social"? Nope! Although I do avoid social interactions to a harmful degree, I do still have some of course. I can "mask" very well and I think even be quite charming in social interactions (perhaps due to my ADHD), but I am characteristically naive and a bad judge of character lol.
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[@anxious_and_avoidant]

I also want to say that when I’m talking about the mental health landscape being confusing and convoluted and I’m trying to figure it out, I don’t necessarily mean which diagnoses. I mean to emphasize that whatever words they’re using to classify these groups of traits isn’t really what’s important (since there’s so much overlap) but moreso understanding ourselves and our triggers to manage the symptoms. Ok thanks love you bye. ❤

[@lulumoon6942]

Love Ya! 💞

[@Oliver_Bryan]

There are some things I know I can do, and that I can deal with anything that happens when doing them. But I just can't do them. I drives me insane. I really do not feel like an adult at all, as I can really struggle with the most normal things, like using the phone or answering the door. Most people just don't get it at all.

[@L3o-baker]

this week i got booked for an autism assessment intake after FIVE years of being on the waitlist! we'll see if they know anything about autism in adult women:') diagnosis is inaccessible in the US for sure but not impossible

[@jenniferwaller45]

I find this all so interesting and relatable. When people with ADHD have PDA traits, it's typically labeled as ODD. (I believe they're essentially the same thing but present a little differently alongside ADHD vs ASD.) So many of these labels overlap... I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and haven't been diagnosed with avoidant PD but very much relate to what I've read about it. I also experience pathological avoidance of threat to my autonomy. It's like I have this strong desire to avoid shame, conflict, or offending people in social settings and will compulsively water myself down and mask, but I also can't tolerate masking and being inauthentic because it feels like an encroachment on my autonomy (not to mention exhausting). So I just avoid it all even though it's a lonely place to be. Therapy has helped, and I'm working to accept myself and hopefully shift out of burnout. I'm curious if you were ever tested for giftedness as a kid. I've heard these traits often coexist with high IQ. Especially the need to continously lower others' expectations so you're not stuck in a hypervigilant state in order to never slip under the high bar you've previously set. Which may be why it feels safer to interact with complete strangers. No preconceived notions to uphold... As an intelligent, ND female, you get so good at subconsciously performing, that the "outer you" becomes your whole identity, but one day you wake up and realize you couldn't keep up the act even if you wanted to. So you have no choice but to let it die, along with the attachments that may have formed between the outer self and others. So in order to re-enter the adult world again, you have to start over and reclaim and develop your true identity from scratch, which may explain the feeling of being like a baby. And you don't want to expose that part of you, but at the same time, it requires social engagement in order to properly develop. Damn... 😆 Thanks for helping me connect some dots! 🙏

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

Nail on the head. Spent 25 years putting all my energy into masking and the last 5 years have been resting unmasked and trying to figure out how to start over from scratch. So intimidating but I guess exciting at the same time to imagine embracing authenticity.

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

Also, I was a gifted child 🥲 lol of course

[@jenniferwaller45]

Ahhh, a kindred spirit. I wish you all the best on your journey! ❤

[@markaoslo5653]

@jenniferwaller45 - 👍(so much to say, yet I'm trying to keep in-check) I have _"AUD" (alcohol use disorder),_ to add to my AuDHD... anyway, yeah damn, and yeah, you nailed it! Thanks much! Cheers-

[@superanxietychick7035]

There have been times where I have stomped my feet and pouted just bc I didn't want to do a single thing 😂😂 Mostly when I think about having to do something I shut down, I'm better on auto pilot , but auto pilot also means that my head is on loose and I walk around confused or forgetful. There's rarely an inbetween. If I however do have some good days, the pull back is inevitable, in some way shape or form, my mind decides to sabotage at least one thing so I can feel inadequate again

[@katoe908]

I almost started crying watching this because I relate so much 😭 thank you so much for sharing, I know it’s not easy to talk about this publicly especially with our disorder but it’s so nice to know I’m not alone in this. sometimes I feel like an alien because nobody in my life seems to have these issues. I wish you the best 💚

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

[@lulumoon6942]

Speaking ONLY for myself, personal autonomy was NOT permitted from the youngest of ages, but also I feel my non-traditional autistic behaviors would have been more acceptable by my family & peers to a greater degree combined with my intellectual precocity had i been male. Others have discussed this before in the literature, but expected social masking as a female took EVERY ounce of life out of me for survival for DECADES, and at some point I also just shut down and would have rather died than betray myself another single day... But when you've never been filled up, or know what you want or who you are, what's next? That's where Radical Acceptance helped me just sit with ME, the consequences, no matter the reasons, for my actions, and what sucky options to get out of the hole sucked the least until I found something better. Perfectionism had to be let go, too, of myself, and others. My partner taught me that, "Perfect is the enemy of Good Enough." I encourage anyone who hasn't read the book or seen the film, "Jonathan Livingston Seagull," to check it out. Fly, friends! 🕯️🙏🕊️

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

This is exactly it, yes. I spent the first 25 years of my life putting all of my energy into trying to be normal and meet everyone’s standards and when I burned out… I have yet to recover. And yes, I think it’s largely due to me being unable to let go of those expectations I *used* to be able to meet. ❤️‍🩹 Thanks for your thoughtful response as always

[@merg-vh5sx]

Awesome comment and I LOVE that book.

[@lulumoon6942]

The DSM is the only thing we're early for 🤣 Also, appreciate your return here, hope you get as much from posting as we do as followers. 😍

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

👏👏👏

[@allyson--]

I've been appreciating your reflections & honesty, Maxine! Even though you said you struggled with your words here, I found it clear to follow & well-said (as per usual!) I imagine you are helping thousands of people who have limited resources for what they're dealing with (a.k.a. you are awesome!).

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

Thank you so much 🥲 Sometimes I think I really just want to talk it out for my own benefit so I’m so relieved that it is, in fact, bringing value to others as well 😂❤️

[@NyteRazor]

That KZbin "Show transcript" is so cool. Didn't know they had that. Hope you have a fabulous Halloween tomorrow. Going to watch scary movies. 🗡👻

[@morneemall8482]

But sometimes people with pda as you said have a lot of bravery to choose their things

[@user-mm5mr2gv7v]

My old shrink didn't want to tell me my diagnoses because she said people "wrap themselves around their diagnosis" i think it makes sence because you tend to absorb other traites of the diagnosis. You might also lack an objective view of yourself and subconsciously want to have certain traits and not want others. Besides very few have a straight 100% personality disorder diagnosis, most people have a mis mash of traits. Not saying thats you but just thought id share it.

[@alexbee3736]

thank you . I wish I had the opportunity to get a proper diagnosis but what you said did resonate w me

[@lisam9612]

I relate to this 100%.

[@mmminno]

I can relate to you so much!!! I have a lot of those diagnosis

[@MyraMabry]

I’m in almost the exact same boat as you with being diagnosed with a million different disorders and I’m just realizing that my problem is most likely autism that has gone undiagnosed due to prejudice.

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

This is very likely yes me too lol. It could all be explained so much more simply by just naming it autism. BUT even if that were true, I would still meet all the criteria for everything else and my struggles and triggers would remain the same, so it wouldn’t change all that much given that I already have the awareness of the neurodivergence in myself and accommodate it as much as I can already. ❤️‍🩹

[@MyraMabry]

@@anxious_and_avoidant I feel like being diagnosed earlier would have made my life so much better. Maybe I’m living in a fantasy world and being diagnosed will make no difference. I’m still pursuing a diagnosis. That being said now I know I have different needs when communicating with other people that should be accommodated. For example I don’t think I should have to look people in the eyes if it causes me to lose concentration and gives me intense momentary anxiety. I now know my extreme sensitivity is literally coming from my senses being overwhelmed. It’s not in my frickin head Because I partially got diagnosed with a personality disorder among other things like ADHD, I always thought my personality was the problem. I thought I was the problem. I think it’s very sad that women are much more likely to be diagnosed with disorders that make them feel as though they are a moral failure. It’s probably the same for any minority but each minority group gets slapped with their own stereotypes. Women with mental health issues- crazy, selfish, narcissistic, insecure, intense, mean, weird, erratic, pathetic, awkward, strange, stupid, child-like It’s just like why can’t people understand the concept of everyone is different?

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

@@MyraMabry fantastic points!! I didn’t really think about it that way… I definitely think it would have been easier growing up knowing what I know now, but you’re right; men get to just be what they are (autistic) but women have to fight the stigmas and behaviors associated with personality disorders instead.

[@sofie1065]

It is a disgrace that professional help is not available to you (and so many others). With self diagnosing you are bound to miss something big, because we all have blind spots. This is not to discourage you on your journey. It just needs to be mentioned more. Something is wrong in the system.

[@sweet2sourr]

♥️

[@markaoslo5653]

Liked, Subscribed, very-much appreciated, and resting from taking this all in, and having read all the comments - I feel like I'm in good company, and perhaps I'll try an introduction of sorts (later), because I am presumably, XY-chromosone (*cough-male)... and, pretty-much _"alphabet-soup"_ - pretty much all of my _'heart-strings', and mental tabulations,_ have been 'plucked' and 'punched' here, respectively... until next time, if you'll have me... Thank you- 💟 👋

[@equalitarianbiologist2327]

PDA - Pervasive Demand Avoidance

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

Nothing I've read calls it that! In fact, when I google "pervasive demand avoidance", I just get resources on pathological demand avoidance. Is that what it's being called somewhere else or something?

[@sarao13579]

I’ve heard people say that want it to be called that, but officially it is “pathological.”

[@markaoslo5653]

X1.25 (Playback speed), seems to be fine ;-) 🤗

[@anxious_and_avoidant]

The sweet spot eh? 😂❤️

[@LiveFaustDieJung]

Great video. Thanks for this. I resonate with a lot of this as well. 🩷

[@bennoecker1081]

OMG thank you SO MUCH 🥹. You’ve just verbalized my entire life’s struggle (just turned 40). I resonate with this so much and feel like I have a new direction in seeking treatment