The Official Podcast #63: We Clone Ourselves

[@BeezerGutlr]

This episode aged like wine, now that Charlie has cloned himself numerous times.

[@pearasite]

wtf is your pfp? ngl i literally subbed because of your weird pfp

[@FloridaWinter]

Hello fellow future man

[@tripslord9029]

​@@FloridaWinterWhat's up

[@christopherperez3739]

According to scientists the only things needed for the human race to survive is water, food, shelter, and the official podcast.

[@DackKija]

FishstixEnt Boi Not true. With the Official Podcast you can get access to quality bedsheets from goodlinen.com/official which you can use to setup a tent and wait for all the fresh ingredients from blueapron.com/official delivered straight to your geographical location. The Official Podcast is all you need.

[@christopherperez3739]

DackKija of course how could I have been so blind to such simple science. With your free honey browser extension you can also find coupons for your battery powered stove and your batteries.

[@OXSkuldream]

Minecraft

[@fredrickatchison4542]

F

[@TheChristenberry]

In other words, Blue Apron, Brook Linens, and the Official podcast

[@redrocketrider]

2 no-guest episodes in a row? The gods are truly generous

[@johnnyfkingsilverhand7120]

You dislike guest episodes too?

[@TheONLYFeli0]

@@johnnyfkingsilverhand7120i dislike them too, finally i can relate

[@2eyedtommy26]

@@TheONLYFeli0 same man

[@Harthacnut11]

Same, but I don’t know why

[@pryo6382]

The guest episodes are fine if I follow the guest's content. More likely than not, I'm not really familiar with them which makes the episode fall flat. I'm a regular listener because I am here for these 4, not the guests.

[@colemanhill6281]

Kaya thanks for always being so honest with your opinions

[@Billycca3]

Charlie is right, if there are ANY outside stimulus (even as something as small as position to eachother) would give an advantage to someone. The only way there would be no stimulus is if they're in a vacuum, facing each other in zero gravity, with no ability to tell position. If there was anything, the space between thoughts and kind of ideas would start to differ from the clones exponentially until there was no similarities in thinking. That's why in movies when clones come out of there tubes, they've already experienced something completely different than the other and this respond at different times and different ways to stimulus. As for the existential approach to the problem, it's hard to find any value to the question other than a useful tool for thinking about how one responds to stimulus and how it shapes you.

[@Billycca3]

Ian Rudolph that's very fair. That's both the beauty and detriment of philosophy. That's why I tried to make my comment as objective as possible

[@zarlei6048]

It doesn’t even matter imo, I’m taking a shit right now but I bet if I was suddenly cloned and appeared beside myself taking a shit then our brains would branch off the moment he appears. We’re just too complicated to make such broad generalizations an Andrew did.

[@zarlei6048]

Ian Rudolph Obviously its a philosophical idea but Andrew frames it like he’s factually correct but his idea doesn’t have any basis in reality. Well you can’t disprove that God doesn’t exist- basically Andrews argument.

[@TheSearchForTruth88]

jesus fucking christ you are difficult. you people who argue against it are literally too stupid to suspend you disbelief for a second; it's a philosophical hypothetical, not a LITERAL EXPERIMENT.

[@lessthan3714]

@@TheSearchForTruth88 but the point isnt to suspend disbelief, its to figure out your thoughts on what you think would happen in a situation like that. if everyone suspended disbelief the same way andrew does then of course we would all agree, because its his opinion

[@ThatSpecialNobody]

I like these podcasts with just these four instead of the common guest podcasts. Well, depends on the guest

[@spongybear1926]

Tarkatan best guest was ray narvaez jr

[@GabetheDogeXD]

No, all of them are the best.

[@BigMeatyMoose]

Literally this. I prefer most of the time just hearing them bullshit with each other, but it really does depend on the guest. Zach aka PsychicPebbles felt like he was just one of them which was great.

[@Sirrincai]

I would kill to get Dunkey back on. He's so awkward yet is a genius in comedy, it's fucking hilarious.

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

Ray is always a treat

[@sladikk]

If you had a six inch perfect clone of Kaia what would you do

[@frostylolman666]

Six inches tall or wide?

[@TheAsj97]

But what if he had Hitler's memories?

[@Left4Adam]

What if you were locked in a white room with no doors and no windows, and the little Kaya's getting a little bit peeved

[@j.d.e7906]

sladikk I would funny scream

[@Left4Adam]

sladdik I would squee

[@GenJotsu]

I'm with Charlie on the whole clone "debate." It's simple, life has many variables than just the 2 people involved in the situation. have 2 drones fly the same course with the same exact programming, and a whole slew of variables can change the outcome anyways.

[@GenJotsu]

Even if they were in the same room with the same equipment, one movement, action, misstep, etc. could make all the difference on who would win in the fight between 2 entities with the same skill level. This type of deadlock happens in football all the time, and one team always finds a way to take the upper-hand regardless of how similar the teams are.

[@carsonbrown9960]

You know Andrew, got the definition of philosophy. I personally think philosophy means "trying to answer questions that can't be answered, like is god real,if so why is there evil, etc.

[@Bluehawk2008]

The problem is that they're trying to posit a philosophically ideal copy of a person, but they're using the word "clone", which has a very real and very limited scientific definition.

[@prawn_emporium]

andrew's version of a clone has so many technical limitations that it becomes sort of a dumb debate in the first place.

[@Ehh.....]

If the room was totally isolated any random variable would come from you and if there's another you with every single shared aspect the missteps would be mirrored. Tho admittedly there's at least one unshareable variable even if everything was perfectly isolated and that is the fact that it would be literally impossible for you and the copy to occupy the same spot as the same time cuase you both are solid mass. Any possible variation would probably result from that.

[@managama4844]

Andrew is going to make me sad. You and your clone wouldn't be occupying the same space so there's one deviation. Unless the clone somehow got your exact memories and experiences (which inst impossible since this is a hypothetical) that's another deviation. You just got the experience of a seeing a clone of yourself appear meanwhile all the clone knows is it either stepped out of a cloning machine or it suddenly appeared. The beings are already deviated so they wouldn't mirror each other. its not going to be like the scene from Garfield: a tail of two kitties.

[@prawn_emporium]

you're two separate entities within one universe. entropy isn't gonna consciously act on both clones in the same exact way. neither is the brain's very random neuroplasticity

[@prawn_emporium]

the exact problem with andrew's question is that it requires some shitty magic conditions that wouldnt make sense within this universe (human psychology is so much more complex than andrew seems to think)

[@prawn_emporium]

i mean, conscious thoughts themselves are a result of physical interactions within the brain's neurology. the movement of electrons and all that. unless you subscribe to the idea that some metaphysical thing like a soul controls all our thoughts.

[@prawn_emporium]

as soon as someone splits into two bodies, they separate into two different futures, in a sense. their pasts are the same, but since brains are constantly changing and learning, you'd have to replicate their conditions perfectly within two identical parallel universes in order to have them be the same. and even that's debatable, as i think andrew was ultimately trying to get at.

[@prawn_emporium]

basically the problem with andrew's question is really that he didnt put the clones in two separate parallel universes. he put them in the same one, which immediately splits them into two different people despite having shared pasts.

[@ThatGuyKh1]

I love how they were all ganging up on Charlie acting like he’s stupid when he was right. That’s not at all how clones work

[@Edward-Not-Elric]

Nah, Charlie was obtuse in his inability to understand the thought experiment.

[@thatkidkrypto2744]

Hopefully Alex's clone has a mic

[@clawzx1195]

How when he does everything the same as alex?

[@kenlahomic]

Who's alex?

[@clawzx1195]

@@kenlahomic ihe, he was the first guest, and since he fit In so much the community joked about him being the fifth guest and that each episode he isnt here his "mic is muted" it's a nice inside joke

[@servit0r]

The intro gets me hyped every time

[@Synaen]

:D

[@marshall7781]

I kinda missed the old 1 it gave me chills

[@scitechian]

"Da Vikipoodia" --Kaya "Sorry About My Turkish-German Accent" Orsan

[@Huggbees]

I more than welcome anyone to challenge me or present their ideas on the clone philosophy question. Remember though, there is absolutely no outside stimulus in this argument. No outside knowledge, objects or ideas are presented to the clones. The thought processes are completely identical in every way.

[@Sreevbg108]

I feel like your point is not wrong, but you're preconditions are so specific and defined that there's no room for interpretation since "no outside stimulus" is huge. So I wouldn't call it a "philosophical" point. Although Kaya made a good point about the quantum fluctuations, which would not be symmetrical between the clones. If you ignore that though, yeah I agree with you.

[@someunlisteduploads4549]

Which is ignoring reality and voiding its usefulness as a philosophical question. The conditions are so specific they can hardly be applied to any practical situation in the real world, which is why Charlie would see it as something that isn't thought provoking. For the conditions of the hypothetical to be met at all, rather than a clone, a perfect copy of someone would have to be made without either party being aware before they are placed in a stimulus-free environment. Such an environment is hard enough to comprehend on its own. The situation just doesn't seem versatile or applicable enough to answer any profound questions.

[@kaitiehamrick5078]

Well one problem is what if there's two options with a perfect 50/50 chance of you doing either one, decided randomly. I see my clone, and I'll either say "whoa" or "you're me!" There's a chance they could say something different. And forgetting the murder part if there's no outside stimulus and I need to break the loop, I think I'd go towards a wall, then another, and another, until we're both at the same wall, then one can be leftKaitie and one can be rightKaitie, now there's a difference, however slight it may be.

[@VThetouch]

The major issue with this question is that it presents a scenario where zero probability exists. You take two identical, six sided dice and roll them. Odds are they won't land on the same number. This question also ignores nuances in thought. Yes your clone thinks the same as you, but assuming you'll be perfectly mimicking each other, is just an answer to the question.

[@kaitiehamrick5078]

XmcJesus the problem with hunger/sleep is we're assuming (i believe) that you and your clone who is exactly identical to you in every single way are stuck in a room, there's not necessarily a process beforehand that would cause one to be hungrier

[@tomotion]

I doubt 2 clones would think identically indefinitely. Chaos theory and the butterfly effect would soon set either clone on its own path. As soon as you'd been cloned, you wouldn't be in the same position 3-dimensionally, so immediately both clones would be thinking differently due to environmental differences. Fuck it, thinking about clones isn't what I should be doing at 3:38am..

[@akumasstorytime3910]

Yeah you aren't that wrong. Immediately after the cloning there would come a time where you and your clone would have completely different thoughts.

[@TheSteelPickle]

That clone debate was so hard to listen to with Andrew's smugness, there is ALWAYS outside stimulus. Everything from the light outside the window to which clone saw the other one a few milliseconds sooner based on where they were standing, a creak in the floor, wind, or even gravity acting upon it ever so slightly different. It's like if you drop a marble from the same exact spot it's going to drop onto the floor and end up in a different spot. Stay smug though, it's great.

[@yupyup7470]

Dot bot obviously hasn't read any philosophy. By your logic we can't argue about the existence of free will because quantum randomness precludes us from every knowing whether it exists or not. By your logic we can't argue about cognitive differences between people because we will never actually be able to measure these concepts and to even understand these ideas you would need to posit hypothetical environments. Andrew and Kaya were well informed in this discussion and had good reason to be smug, even though I don't think Andrew was being smug, just seems like he was finding the conversation and Charlie's fuck this question reaction funny

[@nak7439]

Yeah fuck him for talking about a hypothetical scenario. What a dick, I only like talking about things that aren't abstract. Unless it can be replicated it's useless and not real obviously

[@treetheoak8313]

Dot Bot perspective changes everything doesn't. Matter if where the same. Drop em in front of each other in a void they effect each other because they are not occupying the same space. Therefore being changed ever so differently. Fun fact genetic twins although sharing the same DNA still have different fingerprints as they do not develop in the womb in the exact same way.

[@stygianskies4776]

Yeah the others should have spoken up earlier and proclaimed a quick end to the "no outside stimulus" thing. In fact, I think Jackson did at one point ("...would there be a difference?" "No.") but they just kept going for a while for some reason. His question was more easily answered than he thought, though there may be merit in discussing whether randomness can exist and cause fluctuations even in a perfectly symmetrical landscape Edit: I was actually agreeing with Andrew until I got to where Charlie actually did a hard stop like I described, and then he lost me with "some people argue otherwise". The "free will" thing has no worth outside of scientific terms, obviously the answer is still no if the world is perfect and still. I figured he would try to argue randomness

[@TheSearchForTruth88]

Dot Bot No, Charlie is too stupid to understand what's being said.

[@frankhernandezmoreno9863]

Pretty sure kaya falling on his head was the magic eraser of his childhood

[@StillNoPickles69]

The guy who did it failed to kill him the first time by pushing the cart over, then the second time the sleep dart didn't kill him so maybe the third time the killer actually killed Kaya and replaced him with a clone who doesn't remember the third fall because he was cloned before that fall.......

[@anx.1606]

the plot thickens......

[@fedoradeb8r412]

Wow Andrew isn’t as smart as I thought

[@CowToes]

He's not smart, he's goofy. It's different.

[@zarlei6048]

He’s just confident in his opinion, this makes him sound smart, but he’s just an average dude.

[@clawzx1195]

@@zarlei6048 which you gotta respect but still yeah

[@mandrakesareimmortal4653]

@@clawzx1195 definitely

[@clawzx1195]

@@mandrakesareimmortal4653 i just love the levels of conceited ego, he doesnt give it up whatsoever

[@thebeesknees3035]

You guys are the best part of my week, you little lovelies.

[@Beeg_Boy]

I'm getting OneyPlays tiny Hitler flashbacks.

[@shukterhousejive]

BUT HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING! ... HE DID!

[@siegwardinspirit]

Donald 'MOAB the A-rab' Trump you'd probably be able to make a lot. People are paying to travel to his house, they'll definitely pay a lot to meet Hitler Clone. But that clone must be bred in ideal conditions to be convincing, aka ship him to Austria and crush his dreams.

[@Tempest1352]

For the clones that mirror each other in isolation, any small initial condition will lead to the clones acting differently. Such as their position relative to the room they're in, what they see, etc.

[@xx_1dreamstanlegend_xx422]

Then imagine that there would never be any 'small initial condition'. That's the point that Andrew makes and something 99% of people don't understand.

[@matthewmadden2000]

Charlie I say this with all my heart, there is nothing more I’d rather see, than for you to get the record back.

[@Montagetastic]

I'm with Charlie 100% on Andrew's "philosophy"

[@GuntWastelander]

Lmao the glory hole question was more philosophical than anything Andrew asked..

[@V0NRH1NE]

Kaya or Kaia or just Mr. Orsen please continue to go on rants and be angry all the time you're the glue that holds it all together man. Also, Jackson talk more, you're interjections are splendid.

[@MaximumSherman]

I'm going to have to agree with Charlie on that clone battle

[@kaladin7487]

That intro song sounds like something straight from kavinsky

[@Moriartart]

ThatTallGuy I WAITED FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THIS

[@griffithonyt]

Kavinsky & The Weeknd - Odd Look is an absolute classic

[@kaladin7487]

alexia g :D

[@putangkiller]

yeeees

[@jellofan1578]

what are good kavinsky songs besides nightcall? I really like that one but haven't found any others that I liked a lot.

[@fengkorberfer]

Charlie- talks about how no one cares about the Winter Olympics, though a lot of people do -Next podcast, talks about things literally no one cares about Love the podcast

[@jamel4940]

I want to go bowling with kaya sometime

[@jamel4940]

Kaya Orsan I'll have to have you fly out to Texas, but itll be worth it

[@vladdy9739]

Jamel Vlog time.

[@alexxcold]

Kaya Orsan If you ever come to Munich, We'll go to a really shitty bowling alley and just down copious amounts of beer.

[@devinjohanningsmeier545]

Me and my friends broke a bowling alley lane once and just left while the workers shouted "not coooool boys"

[@ook8325]

The clone becomes its own entity as soon as it's brought into existence. It's kind of silly to believe that both the original and the clone would act the EXACT same because different conclusions can be drawn on a whim, and there are a plethora of variables to their lines of thought from the moment the clone is created.

[@ishaboibradley5215]

The clone is not standing in your exact position, henceforth, it is in a slightly different situation and may be affected by what they observe (what is behind you) which can cause alteration in speech patterns and mood. Also the one who approaches will most likely speak first. In the situation of killing, the clones probably would think of the same method, but would be in separate locations so the slightest alteration would transform what should be the exact same into someone having an advantage. There will always be outside stimulus as Andrew claimed can alter the situation but fails to mention there will always be this in a normal outside predicament. Also if there is no stimulus and it is in a symmetrical room and position, someone’s aim will most likely slip up, since missing is never intentional. It’s like just because you and your clone flip coins, you’ll not get the same result every time. I just really needed to get that off my chest. I believe it’s much more simple than you are making it out to be. I also love you guys.

[@Tarik_B]

his theoretical is completely based off of imaginary scenarios with no reality to them. so if everything was exactly the same, even the quantum entanglements of the whatevers in the cells in their brains were the same, then they would be exactly the same. but that isnt very thought provoking to just say, everything is the same, because everything is the same and thats it.

[@kel3059]

considering the asymmetry of the human body you and the clone would immediately desynchronize upon first contact

[@EchoXL970]

There isn’t much debate to be had here. If you really wanted to beat your clone just spam Din’s fire till the clone dies so you can proceed to get the long shot then get fucked by the controls and get inhaled up by a whirlpool.

[@heedarchvinter7980]

little did they know charlie would set the speed running route for krabs on ketamine

[@DanSquires]

Think about it, unless you and your clone walked in facing each other, there would be slightly different sensory inputs so the cycle would break quite easily...

[@louisgtoth]

Charlie was correct about the clone thing. If you had the exact clone you would be seeing different things so different thoughts would be affecting their minds

[@Luka98068]

It bugs me so much that they were all being so obtuse towards Charlie when he was right. A clone won't act the exact same as you, because you don't inhabit the EXACT same space and condition, and those variables will change your response. I love Andrew, but he was a massive douche in this one

[@jayric3060]

Oh, we have a smarty here. Dude don't try to solve old philosophical question, that's the entire point. We don't know what clones will do, because there is no clones. We just make up the most reasonable answer. Just because your take on the question is reasonable doesn't mean its right, because you don't know it is, that's the point.

[@kuronotheavenger100]

@@jayric3060 I mean you really don't test that. If you have a perfect genetic copy of yourself but you live in Germany and the other lives in Uganda they are definitely going to act different.

[@mandrakesareimmortal4653]

Perfectly agree if they weren't in the EXACT same conditions down to there positions there would be a difference between them but he did say there is NO outside stimulus NONE

[@goldberg5024]

Wait why did they call him a fat triangle?

[@user-jt6rh8xy6n]

DoopLup your entirely wrong, read what you wrote and you’ll understand. I’ll give you a hint clones are a concept, you don’t necessarily need the concept to be implemented to form a hypothesis of what could happen. Your essentially saying “We don’t have clones, so we don’t know what they’ll do” which is entirely untrue. If that were true then half of the discussions people have on the I topic of science would essentially be by default determined as Wrong therefore no new ‘Concepts’ would be introduced. It takes a preexisting concept to form a new one. For this instance the initial comment used the concept of probability and chance to come to the conclusion that clones won’t exhibit the same exact behavior

[@AlphaSeriesOmega]

Imagine this episode without Charlie. That’s the future of the Official Podcast Today. Bye Charlie 😢

[@ampeater777]

Charlie and Andrew break down why this "thought provoking existential conundrum" about some magical copycat homonculus is a simple yes or no question in like a minute

[@thebored14]

The clone question has me confused. Because I would insist on making eggs, but how would that be resolved? I make the best eggs, but so does my clone. If we decided to both make eggs, which pan would I use? I use a specific pan for eggs. The only hope is outside stimulus, I'm too stubborn otherwise.

[@DougieJenson]

Just completed my listening to all prior episodes and now I'm happy there is one more! Love you guys.

[@pipomaggi]

vikipoodya almost made me spill my drink

[@SpudRusset]

My answer to the cloning question is what I call the rule of lefts. Lay down side by side on the floor or next to each other on the wall, and the one of us on the left speaks first

[@dguy02]

Aesthetic Intro is best Intro.

[@Synaen]

:D

[@dead4390]

For breaking the clone mirroring thing, have the pre established rule in your head 'The original will go first'. Then the clone will have the same idea, 'the original will go first, I will not speak until he has spoken, I will not move until he has moved'

[@crypticraps]

Huggbees I clone would be a copy of that person, right? So wouldn't the clone have the same thought process, but not the exact same thoughts. It's like when you make a copy of a paper, it's almost identical, but it's not the same paper. What if the person is unpredictable and could react to a situation differently. What if they pick six reactions to a scenario and each roll a die. Odds of them rolling the same number isn't too likely.

[@Nojah_Kruskie]

CrypticRaps if the die was given to them the same way it would give both clones the same number.

[@crypticraps]

Nojah Kruskie Well, they can't control the dice with their mind - just like we can't. So a slight twitch of the muscle could cause the clone or original to roll a different number. Also, I thought of a decently cool thing. Say you were boxing your clone, a lot of time thoughts, adrenaline, and emotion changes with momentum. So, what if you got a "lucky" punch in, and then your adrenaline shot up? Then you would have the upper hand, and your clone would be on the downward. Just a thought.

[@Nojah_Kruskie]

CrypticRaps If the hypothetical situation Andrew brought up where there is no outside intervention possible, there would be no"lucky punch" both clones would try to do the same things. Say both clones were trying to fist fight. One wouldn't swing and another dodges they would both attempt to swing or both would anticipate a punch and neither would swing if they both connect a punch they will equally be injured.

[@crypticraps]

Nojah Kruskie What if one pulled a muscle? Or coughed or sneezed or something. That's not outside intervention.

[@crypticraps]

Incredibly British What about a dandruff dust particle that flies off of the original and causes the clone to sneeze? I don't know, man. You win.

[@frank031]

The moment the clone starts experiencing the world on its own it ceases to be "you", so it's no longer bound to make the exact same choices. Charlie, by not really thinking too hard about it, actually got the right answer.

[@Mike-ki4op]

Get Chris Ray Gun on the podcast, I know you have contact with him Charlie

[@breethomas9555]

Nintendo’s already taught us how to kill our clone, Dark Link. 😂

[@TheRicardin777]

YES new h3 podcast

[@nikolaadler9201]

to break the clone cycle you need the clone (or yourself) to see something that you (or the clone) cant see. Like a person standing behind you, while the clone sees the person behind you and looks at the person, then you might turn around and to see the person. At that moment the clone thought "who is that guy behind you?" while you thought " what is he looking at?" at that exact moment you succesfully broke the cycle and now both of you think different things at the same time and might even say dufferent things.

[@9000fail]

From Andrew's interpretation of Plato's Allegory - The Cave, to this; pure cringe. Forcing philosophical topics he can't even figure out is a common theme.

[@manictiger]

Your screen name is genius.

[@presidentfrog4683]

Andrew, your cloning theory has a hole in it. I could think of something random and say it out loud and odds are that we wont get the same thought. Thought itself has countless variables that can deviate in a multitude of ways. A few I can think of off the top of my head are: Train of thought and initial inspiration of the thought. When you think, you start with an initial idea and then certain details you notice lead your thought to new points. Depending on the details you think up and the perspective you take, your outcome will change. The variable that fucks your theory is free will.

[@joebailey8294]

That’s not philosophy, it’s just stoner talk

[@redrocketrider]

Joe Bailey tbh stoner talk is philosophy

[@Nodrog666]

Joe Bailey stoner talk is the BEST philosophy

[@manictiger]

Sober philosophers are just stoners without the weed. They still sit around and look at the stars.

[@cat4517]

1:29:16 is kaya laughs so hard he sounds like a super villain in a kids cartoon and I love it

[@TheMasterpiecePD]

That was my shoutout, I was glad him and Andrew got a hoot out of it lol

[@elbeano1721]

Andrew really pissed me off with his misunderstanding of clone (even magical Scifi clones with all the same past memories)

[@khayle05]

Charlie is so confuse with the clone question 😂😂

[@TimbobJames]

According to Podcast Lore Jackson has claimed Storm Troopers are not clones. Why then is the thumbnail a Storm trooper?

[@ZealotOnYouTube]

TimbobJames storm troopers aren't the same as clone troopers, thumbnail is a clone trooper

[@kf8876]

Jackson Clarke I went to correct him but our lord Jackson has already got it. Thank you jackson and bless up🙏🙏🙏

[@towboat4213]

Kaya's laugh at 30:00 brings me joy

[@marlona6642]

the descusion the boys are having at around 41 minutes about how you would kill your clone i think has a really easy answer. as soon as the clone gets made it wont see the exact same things from the same exact perspective as you wich will make him change ever so slightly but would still make it so that you're not mentally identical anymore. so you just buy a gun and track him down and hope you find him first. edit: currently at 48:10 and this descusion is starting to anger me alot since andrew is talking about like it's a super hard question! my boy charlie still defending his stance like a champ thou. if this debate goes on for much longer i will probably have to switch episode

[@johnbuck156]

I know it's 4 years later and I know no one will care enough to read this but Charlie is right about Andrew's question. You can't break the cycle when in the posing of the question it says it thinks the same thoughts as you always. Not counting the wording the cycle will be broken no matter what. Whether it's being patient and understanding your clone and taking the turns to talk. If you go for violence even if your clone thinks of how to counter your move it will end up with one having the upper hand no matter what. Then you can force a break in conversation by forcibly keeping them from talking while you talk. Once you're out of sync that way it will work

[@chesusjrist9733]

"if you have a clone he'll do the same things as you hurdur". Sorry but even logically speaking that doesn't make sense. Baring any kind of argument based on souls, or the essences of things, by the very nature of there being two of you in the same time and space, that would alter both of the person's neural maps, each one likely being effected differently. So now you have vaccum you, and the two people who are likely taking the cloning differently, especially if we are consider HOW the clone got there. Is it taken from another reality? Is it conjured up with false memories that mirror yours, or is it being cloned the first stimulus it has even had? Even considering all three, it will have different reactions and feelings purely because you are the original and had no artificial creation, or sudden, drastic change in your surroundings. The only way I could see an IDENTICAL copy of you reacting and feeling exactly like you for the first couple encounters is if you both suddenly just woke up in a random room together, neither knowing who is the original or the clone. But even then there are so many different paths electricity can take in your brain due to just being exposed to events it is arguable that you, being a living thing with a supercomputer for a head, would have such a broad set of feelings and reactions that you could put yourself in a situation 100 times, each time wiping you memory of that thing happening and you would still react a little differently every time. Also who would wake up first would effect that and the other's perspective. Since you emphasize that one is a copy I'm assuming you would know, however... which as I already said would put you in an entirely different head space. Kinda suprised Andrew just thinks of people as automatons, especially as a creator. He should be a little ashamed of himself.

[@aa898246]

SHUT UP NERD

[@yupyup7470]

Yeah, no buddy you're wrong. You assume that electricity will take different paths through your brain considering no outside influence (that means both would consider them selves the original, otherwise they'd be mentally different). Now I don't know if you've ever taken an electrical physics class, but high school physics will show you that electricity doesn't just guess which path to take, it will take a path of least resistance. This is measurable and consistent. Andrews question assumes that we could measure the two brains and bodies and they would be the same in every single way. This means that neural pathways would not conduct signals any differently. There is no randomness in the signals of your brain. You bring up the fact that our brains are supercomputers, yet ignore the fact that you can predict exactly what actions a computer will take to solve a problem if you measure everything about that computer. You make this comparison but for some reason grant signals in the brain some sort of random nature that just isn't physically true lol.

[@yupyup7470]

Also people are automatons in a sense. The whole industry of advertising is built on this fact. All of human history of choices proves this fact

[@chesusjrist9733]

"considering no outside influence" The simple act of opening your eyes could be considered an outside influence, and because of this the question immediately looses it's point because it would be a waste of time to contemplate two identical people who are essentially unconscious. " This means that neural pathways would not conduct signals any differently." Actually neurons would fire in totally different ways, especially considering my above example. Unless they share the same vision and general sensory experience, then their brains would fire in totally different ways. One is seeing a chair a bit further away. The other is seeing the chair in a different angle. Just this point alone already disproves your assertion "neural pathways would not conduct signals any differently". "You make this comparison but for some reason grant signals in the brain some sort of random nature that just isn't physically true lol. " It is alarming that you would think a device made of plastic and gold could be directly comparable to an organic brain, which I think I might have to remind you, is made of things like proteins, and other complex organic compounds. "The fusion of a vesicle is a stochastic process, leading to frequent failure of synaptic transmission at the very small synapses that are typical for the central nervous system." A vesicle being a type of cell that actually contains neurotransmitters. So, essentially, the release and development of neurotransmitters (the things responsible for electricity to go from one place to the other in our brains) is "stochastic" or, random. receptor.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_synapse#Neurotransmitter_release in conclusion, EVEN if there was no outside influence, whatever you describe that as, you would still have two entirely independent beings with their own neurons firing... leading to varying degrees of success upon nerve firing and successful transmission happening.

[@chesusjrist9733]

"Also people are automatons in a sense. The whole industry of advertising is built on this fact. All of human history of choices proves this fact" This view is not only cherry picked, but tells me your world view has been unnecessarily narrowed by cynicism. That or lack of experience. There are thousands of examples of people going against the status quo and establishing new systems that suit them, rather than going along like robots on a line. Many distinguished businessmen and artists are comparable in this way because they don't always do the smartest thing. They take risks, make irrational assumptions, and rely on emotion more than reason. And there are plenty of people who break away from the influence of advertising, and live their own lives. If they had been as you described, that never would have happened. They would have just kept buying and working. I know the world can seem bleak and predictable, but in all reality it is ANYTHING but the latter.

[@Rcm23195]

I love how charlie doesn't get the idea of the clone thing. I love it.

[@cheeesedout]

Well technically, charlie's first situation works, considering both guns wont be of exactly the same recoil/accuracy. So if both the clone and real charlie fired at the same time, it would be up to luck to see who sustains more harm from the shots. Likely both die, however there exists a chance that one might live. Also, to add to it, if you and your clone attempt to strangle each other, both having the same strength and breath capacity are likely to just blackout and enter an eternal cycle of trying to strangle each other. Holy shit this is amusing

[@zarlei6048]

Doesn’t even matter though does it? Whoever starts strangling first probably wins and there are many fights where the weaker person wins, don’t understand why its so outlandish that one would win in a completely equal fight.

[@kelvinnoodles]

I was checking out their patreon AS THEY BROUGHT IT UP. the moment they went "go check it out, we'll stop until you do"

[@NederlandBall]

I'd make one male and one female clone of myself. For... academic purposed, of course!

[@squeebo8]

Andrew's critical error in the clone question is in assuming that they'd both be stuck in an infinite loop of cutting each other off while speaking as if they were computers; we're human, we have the ability to problem-solve and the entropy of building off of the others' (your own) thoughts alone in a conversation would then introduce stimulus that, while not anything you don't already know, would structure the whole situation and that small variation in the two people would mean a diversion in thoughts and therefore a nominal split in personality and personage, creating two separate entities at that point on a physically and mentally even playing field but wouldn't result in a stalemate. It's also not philosophy, especially in comparison to the allegory of the cave.

[@RemiTosh]

I agree with Charlie’s stance on the clone debate

[@Lvcyx]

why isn't this showing up in my subscriptions

[@fryinyams2877]

hvoki are you subscribed

[@Lvcyx]

yeah I got the notification but it's not showing up

[@QbiKz]

have you tried subscribing

[@colemanhill6281]

Cuz ur mom gay

[@mushroom6088]

Captain Levi you are stupid they said they are subbed

[@ngs2683]

Andrew's reaction to the gay bulls was priceless.

[@kelvinnoodles]

human thought is incredibly complicated and can be different if you're standing several milometers to the left so you'll be out of sync very quickly

[@GenJotsu]

Lies; you have to make them, maintain them, and inevitably pay for them. The Truth is the Truth; free of charge.

[@Thatguy-zd6lp]

Clones now with a gun

[@Comrade_Nils]

i agree with charlie on the clone thing - if both clones think and act exactly the same, it's like standing in front of a mirror. how is that a philosophical question?

[@mr-anfosh827]

its a hypothetical question a stupid one but Andrew got so butthurt about people reaction to it just check the reddit of the episode his response was basically its MAGICCC like how the fuck can you debate that shit its like a 9y fantasy and when you answer he will just change the situation because there is no rules he creates them as sees fit his points then he gets uppity when people say how dumb its is

[@2x4noah]

Clones stop being a clone of the person they are based on the moment they are created and become self aware at that point they are just really similar to you, if you woke up in a room with only your clone and both of you where startled your body would make a fight or flight choice and chances are you would make a slightly different movement to your clone and thus starts you on a different frame of mind. Also Andrew is stupid clones aren't mirrors of you

[@alexfrania209]

noah2x4 you make it sound like you’ve dealt with real clones before. It’s a hypothetical question.

[@manmanfun2]

noah2x4 exatly what i wanted to say... They are not fucking mimics.. They aren't you.. They are like a damn twin.. Not a shadow of you.. He doesn't think muscle by muscle exactly like you.. They do them and you do you.. Duh..

[@JDoawp]

Not really but close, although I'm not fully through video I just wanted to post this as a response to your comment since I have to leave. clone kləʊn/ noun 1. BIOLOGY an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical. "vines representing all the 15 existing clones were planted" Now if they're not talking about an IRL clone sure the definition is wrong but a clone is just something that's genetically identical to something else.

[@manmanfun2]

JDoawp thats right.. Its just a twin brother.. Not a mirror

[@quentin9628]

Yeah, we deal with clones al the time.

[@40LKY]

The easiest way to break the cycle of a clone and original doing the same thing would be to have it where they are not in the center of the room. Then, both will back up until one bumps the wall and reacts.

[@robertoliver7485]

I thought it’s was gonna be Gibby

[@natemathewson5200]

Robert Oliver editing takes a long time. Usually there’s a 2-3 week gap

[@robertoliver7485]

Nate Mathewson ok thank for the heads up

[@Walnut00]

next week according to charlie

[@amacare123]

Tbh i think that the moment a perfect clone achieves sentience their personal experience and thought varies. I think that the human brain is so varied that even if you are identical you wouldn't necessarily have the same response. Perhaps your reactions would be similar but your end response may not be the same.

[@jonathanstevens9652]

Get nyanners on the podcast

[@renno2679]

Add Lilypichu and oh god itll be a battle between deep voice kaya and charlie vs high voice nyanners and lily

[@jonathanstevens9652]

Wild Doggo exaclt

[@SmarkusAurelius]

MY DICK

[@sirbillius]

"We're five minutes early," me: "No do it NOW!"

[@hawkeyeplerce5238]

I'm gonna be honest, I re-watched them all recently, The Force Awakens was a much more entertaining movie than Return of the Jedi...

[@TheMasterpiecePD]

Hawkeye Plerce No

[@axaxaxaxaxen9896]

basic rule of cloning- whichever clone is nearest to a wall is designated Clone #1 and has the right to invoke Clone #1 privilages

[@jakes5390]

can i come on the podcast pls?

[@DmanInDemand]

jake S Who are you

[@Frostbitten.]

jake s says so right there

[@clu882]

Absolutely not, you are barred from appearing on the podcast.

[@fryinyams2877]

Watch this at like 3 pm while drinking vodka, wake up at 9pm with no memory of my entire day

[@Thatguy-zd6lp]

Brooklinen mmmmmmmmhhhhh delicious

[@kyrothegreatest2749]

22:15 "you can be president, they cheated" damn Kaya the Oracle over here

[@Neeblius]

I don’t get why Andrew is hated on so much, he’s interesting and fun

[@DmanInDemand]

White Chedda Black Chedda

[@Pharomid]

Invisible_Mango I'm right with you, sometimes I like to have these philosophical thoughts with my friends because I like thinking and seeing how someone else thinks but most of them do the charlie approach and shrug it off as stupid and impossible.

[@seltjk]

@@Pharomid his question wasn't philosophical tho it was the equivalent of playing a game with a friend as they make up the rules as they go

[@kingman186]

The whole score thing is why Touhou high scores require you give them your Replay file so they can watch it themselves.

[@totallynotnoone4380]

Woo

[@Shoeofsweat]

Totally not No One WHO CAN RELATE

[@totallynotnoone4380]

Ponkli speaking of IHE what the hell happened to his audio this episode?

[@hihanteki]

Integrity of Speedrunning community should be a phrase followed by Apollo Legend.

[@Tom-102]

Jackson what do you look like

[@elijahalvarez4920]

Thomas Sweetnam ZealotonPC is his Instagram, but to describe him he looks like kylo ren but don't say it to him

[@omarsabir1210]

Thomas Sweetnam he is a handsome bou

[@xelliosu]

go to the twitch page and go to videos he was streaming there recently with his face showing

[@1631631000]

He has snapchat he puts pics up almost everyday

[@DougieJenson]

he's a pretty boi

[@natemathewson5200]

As promised on stream, there was indeed a discussion about House of Caravan. My favorite game. Thank you.

[@sdiaiem2529]

10:50 European style socialist friends love money ✡️

[@typreegamingtpg2198]

This is like seeing the first domino fall over in a never-ending chain row.

[@Clonetrooper2.0]

Moist

[@trenchcoatbandit]

more moisture than jabiim

[@juliendacoolien3454]

More moisture than Kamino and Mon Cala.

[@Clonetrooper2.0]

True true

[@Rcm23195]

The only possible solution to the clone problem, would be for them to run into eachother quickly, and "whoever hit the floor first" or something, because there isn't always continuity with that. Not 100% plausible, but possible.

[@weeb3244]

WHY DOES ANDREW THINK OUTSIDE STIMULUS IS SO IMPORTANT??? Identical twins are genetically the same, but they don’t do the same shit at birth; sharing identical genes and experiences does not equal identical behavior

[@joeyflores9649]

Thomas Conley he said clones not twins 😂

[@guccikai1563]

Twins are genetically the same but aren't the entirely same person, the only person who knows what you think is you, your twin doesn't think like you at all beacuse in terms of genetics you're the same but in terms of mental structure you're nothing alike

[@StillNoPickles69]

Idk why Andrew uses the term clone as if a clone would ever have the same exact thoughts... a stereotypical clone is just genetically identical, what he proposes is just some hypothetical that is so specific that it can only have one outcome

[@Arabinnal]

way too late of an answer but yep, like StillNoPickles said, clones would be just genetically identical, but already the appearance can differ totally. Clones of animals, like cats, have totally different fur colour, behavior, etc. Basically a perfect replica of someone couldn't be achieved by cloning, you'd just get someone who'd look like your relative

[@ashlet6035]

Think of it like this; you suddenly exist twice centered and facing your other self on the opposite side of a perfectly symmetrical white room. Come to an agreement with other you on which direction is North. Doesn't have to actually be north, just has to be a single point to call North. It's impossible.

[@callumr9365]

if you had a clone, each of you would do things together in the same way, however you stand in different places and therefore see things in a different way. These different experiences would lead to different personalities, and therefore only one of you would die if you fought. Unless... two clones were made at the same time and immediately started fighting, then neither clone of you would win.

[@Fetteremo]

im vegan

[@DmanInDemand]

Zeltos booooo

[@rekeamohcsreed7719]

Ur mom gay

[@millerrepin4452]

I'm Negan

[@Nodrog666]

Zeltos I'm sorry.

[@kaizov2940]

I am the senate.

[@californiacajun4535]

I forgot there was 4 people on this podcast until Jackson finally fixed his mic