Perennialism: The Most Common False Teaching That No One's Ever Heard Of, with Marcia Montenegro

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[@22moonpie]

I love Marcia ! I could listen to her every day !! I’ve learned so much from both of you ladies !! Thank you for such wonderful content !! ☀️❤️

[@TheExastrologer]

Melissa, thank you so much!!

[@funnycatvideos1848]

I love Marcia too! Her ministry is essential and she’s so well spoken.

[@michaelcook310]

As a professor of counseling at a Christian university, I used Benner's The Gift of Being Yourself as one text in my spiritual formation course for a couple of years. However, I grew increasingly uncomfortable with it. When I read one of his later books, particularly where he quotes Eckhart Tolle and Marianne Williamson, I discontinued using the book. Thanks for covering Benner. He seems to have shifted significantly from an evangelical theology to a progressive theology.

[@lebnewman8152]

Trying to follow Tolle 20 (years ago) scrabbling my brain.

[@MisterCharlton]

Perennial Traditionalism actually has something to it. Modern evangelical Protestantism is a theologically sterile corruption of the Anglo-Catholic tradition, which actually has a respect for the unknown and even a certain humility regarding its understanding that it doesn’t hold all of the answers. Traditional Christianity is far more connected to the ancient perennial wisdom than all of this modern, fake “fundamentalist” nonsense.

[@robinjoseph4949]

@@MisterCharlton Christianity is based on the Bible. If you reject the Bible as the word of God, then you are following a " Christianity" based on man's own ideas which is not coming from God. God in the OT always called nations out from their pagan idol religions to serve Him. If it is all the same and these religions at their core have the truth and follow God. Why would God bother calling them out. Why would Jesus say to go into all nations and preach the Gospel/ Christian ity? Why not leave all the religions be if they really know God at their essence? Why did Paul go to Greece and all apostles travel to spread the Gospel? Why did Thomas need to go to India on the great commission if the Hindu's already knew God?

[@MisterCharlton]

@@robinjoseph4949 When did I say they were right? All I said is that there is a common metaphysical truth.

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

Sounds like Oprah New Age teachings similar to Eckhart Tolle. That is why believers must abide in the word of God daily so we know Christ’s voice.👑 1 Timothy 4:1 Colossians 2:8 John 10:27-28

[@willrobinson1229]

Amen

[@gabriellekelly3462]

This is exactly what I thought of too. Was this is Oprah

[@topologyrob]

I think it's the opposite of false. It's the heart of Christianity.

[@DentGal83]

Thank you! The part of evangelical church that includes perennialism is also known as the Spiritual Formation movement. Dallas Willard, Richard Foster, John Ortberg, Ruth Haley Barton and more are writers/teachers in this movement. In my old church (conservative Baptist denom in Canada), I went through a leadership program (Focus 3 or Vantage Point 3) that required that David Benner book. I’m no longer a part of them. It’s everywhere! Bible schools, seminaries, churches...

[@JohnHH59]

Had not heard of this one (Perennialism). The Devil always finds new ways to elevate man and water down or deny the deity of Christ. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. It also states that whoever denies the Son does not have the Father. There are multiple verses that clearly states our Savior's divinity. I hope the Christians following this open their eyes and ears and run away from this madness. Great job, ladies!

[@topologyrob]

The devil? Careful what you're calling devilish there John...

[@carolberubee]

As someone who has an MA in Psychology, I don't wonder that he has drifted into perennialism. I'm not saying that *_all_* Christians in counseling or other fields of psych will end up that way, but what I am saying is that psych was developed by unregenerate men and has never, until recently, been a part of a Christian worldview. It has to be shoehorned into a Biblical narrative; it just doesn't fit.

[@iwasjustintrance]

So why did you choose to study something that is anti biblical and produced by unregenerate man?

[@carolberubee]

@@iwasjustintrance I was just beginning my doctoral work when God saved me. I resigned from the program with an MA and have been speaking out against psychology in the Church ever since.

[@iwasjustintrance]

@@carolberubee Fair enough!

[@toomanymarys7355]

Yes. It renames sin as a sickness of which people are victims. Then it renames "sickness" as natural variations!!!!

[@richardrice1032]

Greetings Carol! I like your use of the word "shoehorned". I never took a Psychology course, so you and I followed different paths to the same Faith. Thanks for pointing out the "mismatch" between perennialism and the Bible. Jesus's adversary truly is cunning! Just for "grins and giggles" I went to the Open Bible website, Topics section and entered "perennial beliefs". That particular Topic did not exist, so the computer told me to wait while it was being created. A list t of 100 Bible Verses popped up less than a minute later, "www.openbible.info/topics/perennial_beliefs". Clicking on any verse takes the reader to the Bible Gateway website, for the context of each verse. Apologies in advance if this is "old news". / An "older Christian Brother"!

[@elisabethericka8816]

Christianity has been hijacked but why are so many Christians willing to go along for the ride. I just don’t understand why so many are being led astray but what I notice is all these ideas like to centre on self, and I guess that is the downfall, it all becomes ego centred and we become lovers of self. It is all so sad.

[@brothertoad6107]

Perennialism isn't only popular in Progressive circles. It's also heavily influential in the Far-Right stream through the influence of authors such as Rene Guenon, Mircea Eliade, Julius Evola, and others. Same with Jungianism. Which is kind of funny because followers of those two streams generally hate each others' guts.

[@brothertoad6107]

@Filosofía Perenne I'm talking about the kind of people nowadays who have perenialist or perennialist adjacent views. There are the Progressive New Age types, who are the ones being discussed in the video. Then there are the Far Right Traditionalists. The people in those two general camps don't associate or get along too well.

[@jomayo1678]

These videos are so timely for me, ive entered a new Church, met with the Pastor a couple times, no Bible, no prayer, no talk of scripture, although i pulled my Bible out at moments, after first meeting, he made sure to tell me that he and his Church is not religious, i really felt that was a warning to me that he percieved ME to be religious. Long story short, second meeting he gives me a link to Enneagram, i read a few types and thought "what in the world" googled it and Doreen Virtues video of Naranho came up, i was literally shaking and burning on my inside at this demonic influence this Pastor was lead by, I immediatley let him know!!! He has had all kinds of reasons, and says how helpful enneagram is and that its just a tool, and if I didnt like then dont read it, NO I just said Im not letting this go, that he was a Pastor and this must be renounced and that i was concerned he was leading otbers this way. The strange thing is his posts consist of my fav reformed teachers, hes read John Macarthurs "the Gospel according to Jesus" how can this be? I am currently under tons of research in these videos, and several sources on line. The laguage he speaks is ALL of what you have been putting out, im basically looking at the "perenialist" old emergent Church practices. This has been most eye opening and such exercise unto discernment, that now my ears are tuned to the words he and others use, right out of the newage spiritual movement! I am writing a thesis and have been taking notes, i mean pages of notes, I am pouring through scripture and putting this together for Him, I am still attending certain meeting as we arent open yet, I do have hopes that he could be loosed from this grip of deception satan has hold on him for his works, if not, it wont be the first Church I was brought before. The Gospel is the power of God to salvation, and there is no other name by which we are saved but Jesus Christ! May God be glorified!

[@mondaynightbible]

* virtual standing ovation *

[@chrissiebotha8574]

This is incredibly helpful. I 've heard some of these things among Christians, but it is helpful to put a name to it.

[@thepurposedrivenwifelisasp5742]

Blessings to you both for exposing, educating, and maturing the body of Christ with insight into deception, cult philosophies, and New Age concepts blatantly and slyly creeping into the church.

[@johnwilliam6949]

Sounds to me as if the perennial view contains a lot of truth....

[@cat-bg3rv]

Thank you! Learning so much this year! 🙏😊

[@zahirvisram2749]

Sounds like a version of all roads (religions) lead to the same destination. This a child of universalism. Removes the offence of the Cross and the uniqueness of Jesus. John 14:6.

[@iwasjustintrance]

What's wrong with universalism?

[@Kris77777]

@@iwasjustintrance it disregards the Cross and the uniqueness of Jesus.

[@zahirvisram2749]

@@iwasjustintrance Hi Justin, Universalism does not hold up under closer and critical examination. One of its tenets is that all belief systems are basically the same. However, the various belief systems are fundamentally different. They may have some similarities but fundamentally, they are radically different. A Mercedes and a Ford Focus have similarities but it is the differences that makes all the difference. Jesus claimed He was the only way to God (John 14:6). There is only one mediator between God and mankind, the Man Christ Jesus. The Book of the Acts of the Apostles says there is no other name given under heaven to mankind by which we can be saved except the name of Jesus.

[@iwasjustintrance]

@@zahirvisram2749 I think you may be thinking of pluralism. There are Christian universalists who preach the uniqueness of Christ, repentance, faith, grace, authority of scripture, etc. and yet believe Christ has secured salvation for all men (ultimately).

[@iwasjustintrance]

@@zahirvisram2749 are you saying Jesus is a Mercedes? 😂

[@carlafoss9248]

Thanks! Great content!! It’s so important to educate ourselves about these thing so we can see them coming... the enemy is sneaky. Praise the Lord for His wisdom... the true wisdom in Christ!

[@sarahfurlong2240]

I hear this argument from Christians a lot, that biblical text should be taken word for word with no questions. But I must ask, what exactly is wrong with contemplation? It seems to me that real “brainwashing” comes from a place of not allowing people to think for themselves, saying things like this is the only way, and every other way is false. That doesn’t sit well with me. So I just want to understand, exactly why we should not do things like contemplative spirituality? Or studying psychology alongside spirituality? For me they are very connected. I can’t wrap my head around a black and white view of the Creator. Thoughts?

[@thelobsterking1055]

It is not spiritual topic it's a political one.

[@SaraJeanne7]

Thank you for digging deeper into this!!

[@gerardmiller7364]

Yes, actually according to the bible. Jesus said that. We are all sisters and brothers. Mathew chapter 23v 8and 9, 10. They are all related, except for the non Christian. Those people who are willingly being ignorant about the facts, are descriminat towards their fellow man. Description is the biggest problem in the world. They all pray to the same God, and teach them the same bible. So the rest is descriminasion. All physical beings are from Adam and Eve. Just remember that.

[@natecesky]

Thanks for this video. I sat under an explicitly perennialist professor in undergrad, and it was very enlightening to learn from him and see his influence on many peers. It is very appealing, for obvious reasons, to many in our current culture and I expect will be increasingly necessary to have orthodox responses to this.

[@theTavis01]

As someone who dabbled in several spiritual traditions prior to becoming a Christian, I can strongly affirm that there are many common truths. Why wouldn't there be? It is by understanding these commonalities that we can appreciate why Christianity is unique. Also, Jesus Himself taught that there is a deeper truth, for those with eyes to see. The problem is not the existence of esoteric teachings. The problem is that the esoteric teachings have been removed from the church and corrupted. If you are having this conversation without bringing up Freemasons, you're speaking out of ignorance. Origen of Alexandria less than 200 years after the crucifixion: "Then there is the doctrine that the scriptures were composed through the Spirit of God and that they have *_not only that meaning which is obvious, but also another which is hidden from the majority of readers._* For the contents of scripture are the outward forms of certain mysteries and the images of divine things. *_On this point the entire Church is unanimous,_* that while the whole law is spiritual, the inspired meaning is not recognized by all, but only by those who are gifted with the grace of the Holy Spirit in the word of wisdom and knowledge." People are thirsty for this, and they are not finding it in their Sunday worship, which is why they fall for false teachings.

[@klagomorgan7804]

I think I’d be insulted to have someone tell me my religion is at its core exactly the same as another religion. It would show that they don’t actually know my religion at all. I don’t know of any secular religious historians who actually would support perennialism is in any way accurate. It sounds more like made up wishful thinking.

[@mburumorris3166]

Theologians may quarrel, but the mystics of the world speak the same language.” ― Meister Eckhart

[@SavannahSedai]

A few thoughts: 1. If a friend is a gospel believing Christian and starts to pull this way, how on earth do you speak to them about it? I don’t see how anything in the New Testament would give leniency to these ideas. It seems to me that a Christian going this direction would be the hardest to turn back to the holiness of God. 2. A lot of the language you speak of I often hear from people I know that believe Jesus is the only way, period. Is it just a trickle down or is it something that needs to be pointed out? Like “hey you said specifically *blah* but did you know about these views that use the same language and you may be validating the dangerous doctrines they may be getting into which ultimately de-God God?” 3. Sometimes I’m looked at as progressive or liberal simply because I believe we should give respect to all other religions. And honestly, a lot of my reasoning for that is selfish in a way that if I let them be, they will respect mine and let me be. I would/do NOT withhold the gospel from these people but at the end of the day if they don’t choose to follow Christ and stay with their Islamic faith, I’d like them to have that...because I don’t want my Christian rights taken away. And there is only so much speaking and living you can do before I feel like I need to shut up and just pray. Even though I believe their ultimate destination is hell, my respect for them makes a fundamentalist believe I’m exactly like a universalist. Other than the obvious of praying for our church leaders, friends, leaders of other Bible believing churches, what should we be doing on a daily basis to keep the GOSPEL and HOLINESS of God at the front and center?

[@rileyanderson7379]

Jesus said the world will hate followers of Him so I don’t know why you would think or except respect

[@rileyanderson7379]

Aside from praying for fellow believers staying in the Word is key to not being led astray and for keeping the faith strong

[@SavannahSedai]

I don’t expect it because I fully believe that. In general I have a BIG problem with “if the tables were turned” so if I don’t want to be treated or disrespected in a way I never think it’s ok to do it to someone else. So at the very least when the hate is given and persecution comes...it can not be said of me that I did the same to them. Ya know?

[@philpattison6349]

All very similar to Matthew Fox's Original Blessing and Cosmic Christ etc in the late 80s and 90s Nothing new under the sun. Was one of the things that destroyed a church I was part of then. Beware.

[@chaplainmattsanders4884]

Right. You got it.

[@isaacpiedra24]

This is gr8 info, you 2 are awesome, God bless you and your families 🙏

[@adamcote5750]

Thank you both for this...very helpful.

[@kcrcbest]

thanx ever soooo much for this video, very helpful ---- praying for you all

[@khayzee62]

This is something that I literally just heard Russell Brand say he believes and I wanted to learn about it from a Christian perspective. Thanks Alisa for all you do.

[@seangreen4227]

Sounds alot like Freemasonry.

[@theTavis01]

Yeah I seriously don't know how they can talk about this without bringing up the Freemasons

[@carlaferrier2967]

Great info. Thanks.

[@zyn87]

The deeper truth that I have realized while studying spirituality is that God is not religion he is reality and that Jesus Chist is the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE.

[@MarcosBetancort]

This is because they think only at the level of general revelation, not special revelation. Then they have repackaged throughout the ages with demons doctrines. So they become aware of God as the reality underneath everything, and so they think that's all, all at that level is God, where everything is God, and everything is a reflection of that, an illusion for a while.

[@janawalczuk833]

In very simple terms, I have come to see psychology as a man-made construct to assuage a person’s guilt without having to admit sin, which requires redemption in the form of a Savior qualified to deliver him/her from just punishment.

[@woobiefuntime]

I would disagree. Many times their issue has nothing to do with sin

[@CALewis]

Thanks for discussion never heard of this

[@teacherdanielonline]

Interesting!

[@EndTimesHarvest]

I mean, it's kind of true: all religions do come from the same source: they all stem from the satanic doctrine which Satan told Eve in the Garden, which opened the door for the fallen angels to create all kinds of false doctrine and false religions for man to believe in. The Bible very well describes how all of the gods of foreign nations are really the lesser gods; the fallen angels wearing various masks. If mankind never disobeyed God in the Garden, everyone today would be worshiping the God of Israel and Him alone. There would be no doubt that He is the One true God. It was only through Satan's deception that man began to doubt God.

[@laughy38247357075834]

That's very convenient, I'm sure those other religions aren't thinking the same thing about yours..

[@MerBlack]

Thank you for this education, Marcia snd Alisa… Grateful for all of the information you are sharing! the Enneagram seems to be a tool that is possibly opening some up to this bc of Rohr. Praying lots 🙏🏼

[@Christianity_and_Perennialism]

Perennialism is not syncretism. This is the most common misconception of that the perennial philosophy means. It does not mean to become a ‘Christian Muslim’, etc. All critiques against perennialism from an exoteric religious point of view start with the same assumption: they take duality, the separation of the subject and object, the perceiver and his perception, for granted, and jump straight to the question of which object is the ‘true’ one and argue from there. Perennialism is based on the point of view, held by the esoteric doctrines of the multiple religions, that ultimately there is no real line between subject and object, and thus the qualities of the unique subjects are going to be reflected by their objects, up to and including the religious forms.

[@st.mephisto8564]

Hey man good to see you here too.

[@carolberubee]

Benner has about 20 titles cataloged with the copyright office, but Living Wisdom isn't one of them. It was first published in 2018 and a second edition in 2019. It seems odd that the publisher wouldn't have registered a copyright. Anyway, the fact that it has a 10-digit and a 13-digit ISBN isn't indicative of an older printing. All of my books, published beginning in 2017, have both ISBNs.

[@lindsaybarlow7946]

I was led astray in part by John Mark Comer and his endorsement of Willard and contemplative spiritual disciplines, the Enneagram and its “Christian” popularizers Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile, and Richard Rohr. Through this I began to interested in Perennialist Christian thought and practice. The true Father God has been incredibly merciful to bring me out of this spiritual haze and deception through the simple reading of the Gospel of John (actually, I’ve only just made it to chapter 15!). If you are reading this comment, please please pray for me. I was led astray for years, had a baby outside the beautiful covenant of marriage, and now it feels like I’m fighting against this teaching’s remnants in my own mind, and I believe more boyfriend (the baby’s father) has gotten into it through Rohr as well. I’m trying to find a trustworthy church and to live a life in keeping with repentance.

[@mondaynightbible]

praying for you

[@stanmcman1]

Praying for you! Praying for perseverance and endurance, strength, wisdom, and discernment. Praying you find a trustworthy church and are able to surround yourself with brothers and sisters in Christ who can come alongside and nurture you and your family.

[@timvictor8926]

I haven’t heard such a biased and poor exploration in a long time

[@st.mephisto8564]

Haha true!

[@bryanlydiabaird]

Great teaching!!!

[@CynthiaMoon23]

Do you think that Benning’s lack of forthrightness about his beliefs in The Gift of Being Yourself is purposeful? (Note: I’m not saying that lack of Biblical literacy & inability to ID heresy is not an issue.) Think about it: you are more likely to get sucked in by someone whose less than forthright. If they’re honest, you may be not fall for it, but if the ideology is more subtle, it’s harder to identify. My background in English Literature & Linguistics means that I’m more attuned to linguistic subtleties than more ppl are, but your average person may not pick that up. I’d love to do a linguistic breakdown of it.

[@TrixieScalf05]

Interesting.

[@kevinshockey1836]

The way is narrow not wide. Only his sheep will know the shepherd's voice.

[@williamfranz6639]

I listened to this video and I realize it comes down to the unfamiliar and peoples reaction to what is unfamiliar. The reaction is strong. It's heresy! And frankly I think it an unfruitful idea to try to change that reaction for most. What I can disabuse people of potentially is the history of how we find ourselves as Christians identifying other Christians as the " other." Or " them." ( From the very human psychology concept of us vs them). I want to do it in the simplest possible way, without opening threads of subject area unnecessarily, to avoid spiraling into impasse before any point of common reference can be made. So here it is! The term Sophia. Sophia is a term used in Christian theology interchangable with Wisdom tradition in the general sense. It is being represented as " new," or "progressive." Two terms that place the unfamiliar into buckets, not to identify matters of theology, or Christology, but as a padjorative. You could substitute BAD, OR EVIL, OR HERESY, and those words would convey the same idea I think. The word progressive I want to focus on is progressive because it's padjorative meaning as used suggests that this is " new age" not traditional. To do this I ask one indulgence. Google " Hagia Sophia." For purposes of this most basic research, Wikipedia will do. I draw your attention to the Giant Cathedral by that name. Look at the year it was constructed, and by who. Justinian 1 predates Martin Luther in 1517 whose posting of the 95 Thesis is generally accepted historically as the beginning of what became a wider protestant movement. Hagia Sophia was built the better part of a millenia before 1517. Read about the construction. Where the building sits. At this point you have entered the story in history that identifies Constantinople, as contrasted with Rome. The time and place of the great schism is follow up history to look at. The eastern Church emphasized Sophia in it's theology more than the west.( Although it remained present in the west as Logos). Fast forward, Protestantism arizes seperated from the eastern tradition. Protestantism then begins to differentiate it's theology from its RCC roots. Sophia is unfamiliar. It is unfamiliar to most in the RCC. If you go back in time earlier than the great schism, the theology of all Christianity is common. Origen wrote on Wisdom tradition, the early church fathers, and it derives from Jewish authors as well before Christ's birth. More important Hellenism and Plato introduced the idea of Logos before Jesus was born. Our Gospel writers and Paul in revelation identified Logos, or " THE WORD" with Christ, the second person of the trinity right in the BOOK OF John as well as Paul's letters to the Colossians and Ephesians. You can read it. Go to Colossians 1:15 and start reading. Does the being described sound like a 1st Century Jewish man from Palestine to you? In history, the hymm in Colossians is the " Cosmic Christ." It isn't a new fangled idea! Go to John 1: 1 and start reading. The Word! Look at what is being described. In both Colossians and John, IN THE BEGINNING and "first thought" is written. It identified the same language, In the beginning there was light from Genesis. In John that light comes into the darkness and the darkness shall not overcome it. You don't need to interpret. The man Jesus was born 2000 years ago, well after the beginning. Jesus is fully man and fully God per dogma. Man and God entered the mystery of incarnation on Christmas day 2000 years ago. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is one being, not two, but God came first. This seems a point if confusion and honestly it is a mystery, but it sets the foundations of our faith and it derives directly from the Gospel. Wisdom tradition is generally a source of theology that forms the basis of Perrenialism. It is not new. It is perhaps what is oldest in a theological sense. If you are a protestant, the schism, then FURTHUR divide that begins in the early 1500's, leaves remnants you can check for yourself simply by examining bibles. Christianity decided what was in the Cannon and what was not in it's early council's. That is history you can verify. The Protestant bible omit's two books from it's OT cannon. Baruch and SONG OF SONGS( CANTICALS OF CANTICALS). These are apocryphal books to most protestants. They remained in RCC cannon. These are books featuring wisdom theology. The "flesh" we recognize in the Gospel incarnated as Jesus Christ is limited to revelation in the OT. HOWEVER, you can go back to GENESIS,1 , "the wind" upon the waters. That is not a statement of astetic ambiance. That is the metaphor of the Holy Spirit, the very first biblical reference to the WISDOM of God. At the very least, you should be willing to consider that Wisdom tradition is OLD. VERY OLD. PERRENIALISM derives from a foundation in wisdom tradition. Not doctrine, or dogma, but human experience in matters such as , compassion," and empathy and how out tradition deals with these ideas. As it turns out, the other great religions have corresponding ideas to compassion or empathy. Their dogma developed differently to express these common ideas. PERRENIALISM avoids the dogma. The commonality of compassion is the common revelation and what they discuss. An idea of compassion, for example, in common around the world they believe is no accident. It confirms God's love for more than a regional tribe. ( Which on it's face seems infantile to reject out of hand.) Presence? Well Catholics celebrate the real presence and always have. But is it a hard concept. We recognize divine indwelling in some form. What implication does that term suggest? In the beginning of the 20th Century a Trappist Monk named Thomas Merton lived and focussed on reintroducing to Sophia, Wisdom, perrenialism, mysticism, and contemplation. Merton was a great and gifted writer. Men like Rohr became inspired and picked up his work. That's how we get here in bare bones outline cronologic form. I cannot tell you to respect the life work of people. That is up to you. I can ask that motives not be twisted into some evil as a conclusion. People seeking Christ should be respected at least on that basis.

[@SesnoOjukwu]

Beautifully said!

[@tedbates1236]

All paths save one lead to the same place hell and destruction but faith in Jesus leads to eternal life. Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6).

[@topologyrob]

Look up Richard Rohr's teaching on that.

[@r3mm13arts]

This feels so beyond me, so please take my questions gently. I've never heard of contemplative prayer/spirituality, and googling it doesn't seem to raise any immediate red flags either. Is it bad because its based in Catholicism?

[@whitelily227]

That's part of it. Here is a link to the answer you are looking for: www.gotquestions.org/contemplative-prayer.html. I recommend listening to Roger Oakland. Here is a link of some of his best teachings on this and other teachings from the Emerging Church: kzbin.info/aero/PLSKD69lEsEnCwgXEj9vAhtzjZvQxv1PK0

[@Rosie-uf5ox]

@@whitelily227 This was very helpful, thank you!

[@whitelily227]

@@Rosie-uf5ox You’re welcome.

[@mikemiller7225]

Thoughts about Dallas Willard?

[@Enlightenchannel]

So... I'm publicly known as a Perennialist. I'm a Roman Catholic Perennialist, very much like Fr. Richard Rohr. Couple of things are wrong in this interview. 1. Perennialism isn't about every religion sharing a "core". I don't know what this "core" is she's talking about. The one thing we know, and this is a fact, it isn't up for debate, we know that all religions at one time or another have looked to visions, dreams, and altered states of consciousness as meaningful sources of information. So, in that sense every religion shares a common source, not really "core" though. And again that isn't really a matter of opinion, we know that that's true, its a material fact. 2. Perennialism doesn't teach that everyone is going to a happy place. Again, I've never heard that or taught it. In fact I absolutely believe in the reality of hell, and its a facet of every world religion. The difference is, a Perennialist is deeply skeptical of fundamentalist ideas like all Christians go to heaven, regardless of their behavior, and all unbelievers go to hell. So, this idea the Ghandi is in hell just because he wasn't Christian, that doesn't fly with a Perennialist. I mean, you guys are fine to believe what you want. I haven't watched much of this channel but I wouldn't be surprised if ya'll are creationists and fundamentalists so... Yea... Good luck with that. Lol

[@st.mephisto8564]

Hey! Westcott. I'm a subscriber of both your channel and discord server. Pleasure seeing you here.😊

[@st.mephisto8564]

Oh yeah and these guys are clowns. I sometimes come to channels like these for entertainment, it's like seeing monkeys on rollerskates.

[@mikemiller7225]

I have copies of Benner’s books and they are published by IVP and Baker Books, Which is interesting.

[@TheExastrologer]

Exactly. This is part of the problem as having your book from those publishers gives it credibility and the Christian "stamp."

[@Red766t]

Having to change your perception or awareness is also a big part of A Course in Miracles - red flags all over this book

[@CynthiaMoon23]

Jung is also in the Freudian tradition. Freudian thought is big in Literary Theory

[@noahbrous156]

The Perennial philosophy is also called the Traditionalist school as there’s emphasis on religions being in their traditional form. The belief is that much of this truth is lost as religions go away from their traditional form with new sects. I don’t believe an evangelical can really be a perennialist as evangelicalism is not the traditional form of Christianity. Usually true perennial Christian’s are Orthodox. I believe Catholics would be (Thomas Merton comes close) but the Catholic Church takes hard stances on ideas such as perennialism

[@willrobinson1229]

As soon as one starts to rely on personal experience to verify the existence of God one has already stepped away from the Word. Jesus was not sent into the world to give us spiritual experiences. He came to suffer and die for our sins precisely because we are so corrupt and unreliable. This is why Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." We are not the way or the means of our own salvation. It was the serpent, the devil, who from the very beginning seduced man to believe he could save himself.

[@iwasjustintrance]

How did one verify the "word" then?

[@youtubeuser8393]

Is the inner testimony of the holy spirit not a personal experience?

[@willrobinson1229]

I spent almost 20 years following a guru who told us that our personal experience of peace in meditation was proof of the existence of God. Believing the words of this false prophet, I was denying what Jesus Christ had done for all sinners. I thought I could, by my own willpower and blessings of the guru, become one with God. I had many so called spiritual experiences and yet they only proved that I loved myself and what I could attain by my own efforts. I loved my devotion and spiritual practice more than God. In other words, I trusted myself more than the Word of God.

[@youtubeuser8393]

@@willrobinson1229 what is the inner testimony of the holy spirit? Is it a personal experience?

[@willrobinson1229]

@@youtubeuser8393 hi, I don't know, because I haven't had that experience. I'm no authority, of course. I was just speaking from the horrible blasphemy I engaged in for too long. I grieve it often and wanted to warn others of relying solely on personal experience to prove whether or not they are saved. Salvation comes only through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and by no other means.

[@tebbybear1923]

There are millions of religions out there, God calls us to ask wisdom from Him, James 1:5 this wisdom is pure and comes from God.

[@Saratogan]

It is true that all religions lead to God but only one leads to blessing. All others lead to judgment. “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but by Me.”

[@iceman4660]

Sounds like a fine tuning of Universalism

[@cestmois9959]

A lot of maybe mights. If you are critiquing you need to use absolutes.

[@dangerfeild4Life]

I was very confused by Thomas Merton’s dalliances with Buddhism as a young Christian. I think he was a Perennialist in retrospect.

[@kcrcbest]

woooow never heard this before , woooow time is short, all these christs like the real Christ said would happen in Matt 24 , see you here, there or in the air

[@lebnewman8152]

COEXISTCOEXISTENCE AKA CONTRADICTION AKA CONTROL

[@AfterTheRain_Beth]

If all religions lead to the same God then the cross cannot be true. Jesus either came to save 'whosever' or none at all. If I can come to God by circumventing the cross why would He have had to die.

[@mburumorris3166]

Before Abraham was, I am

[@st.mephisto8564]

This is probably the stupidest and most arrogant take that Jesus's Passion is somehow bound upon whether other ways exist. The other ways and the Passion are both various ways the divine mystery is reaching us. This either , or strikes me as tremendously arrogant, I thought you Christians were supposed to be humble.

[@ClydePRiddlesbrood]

Nice explanation...but whats wrong with it?

[@bensonbrett30]

Bad summaries. Over simplifications. Doesn’t sound like there’s an interest here to objectively understand who we are.

[@adamlemons7909]

All religions do have a common source and are bound together. The Bible and the God of the Bible is the absolute truth, those who believe on the son of God and his sacrifice and resurrection will have eternal life. Those who do not believe and worship false gods will spend their eternity in hell. All Roads do lead to the truth and every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord! The problem is at that point the road diverges and you either have eternal life with Him or eternal separation in hell. Choose wisely my friends, you don’t get a second chance!

[@youtubeuser8393]

Do people get to 'choose' their beliefs?

[@philpattison6349]

Do you suggest people dont choose. Is this a no free will argument

[@iwasjustintrance]

How did you figure out the Bible is the absolute truth?

[@oliviertakemitsu9583]

I dont think is fair to critic a very extensive and noble movement as perrenialism using a book from Bennett as an example. He in fact is dosent studied by serious perennial academicians (ir at least is considerated a terciary autor). Important authors that depicts very well the perennialism wisdom are Guenon, Shuon, William Blake, Lord Northbourne, Martin Lings, even Karl Jung have perennial ideas. They are very diverse and have interesting points on religions. But critic all of those fantastic autors using a book of just a single seccondary autor as Bennett?

[@supernoctifer6469]

The Christian mind is a prison

[@timsharpe6652]

Perennialism . New one to me !!

[@ayaatyoussef1443]

may god guide Christian people love from your muslim sister 🙏

[@jacobparrinello9600]

inshallah and death to dajjal. Amen, yes that comes from egyptian sun worship - The light of the Sun Of God.

[@stevendanderson8943]

While all religions DO have true doctrines here and there (Genesis tells us that Satan used mostly true statements in deceiving Eve, while sneaking in a couple of lies, with lethal effect!), and they DO indicate possible Divine origin, those smatterings of Gospel Doctrine do NOT indicate that all religions of God NOW. Perennialism sounds like a perversion of dispensationalism, which goes something like this: Step 1: God calls Prophets, Priests, and other servants to establish the True Faith. Step 2: Satan, other demons, and/or fallen men introduce false doctrines to deceive the Saints. This, along with Step 3, evokes both an apostacy FROM the Faith, AND an apostacy OF the Faith--both of which are referred to by Paul [e.g., in II Thessalonians 2:3]. Step 3: Pious humans introduce one or more attempts at reformation. While this corrects many false doctrines, it also injects other errors. For example, while Martin Luther was right in emphasising faith and Scripture vis-a-vis dead works and fallible men, he was wrong in denying that live faith is acompanied by live works, in saying many unscriptural things about the Jews, and in calling the Epistle of James "strawy." Step 4: To counteract the mayhem and havoc wrought by these apostacies, the Lord calls NEW Prophets, Priests, etc., to restore the True Faith. Of course, Jesus came Himself roughly 2000 years ago, and He will come again, soon! While we can--and should!--used those smatterings of Gospel Doctrine to lead people to Jesus and His Truth and Gospel, we must also beware of that false doctrine!

[@lauranamaran9463]

TURN TO GOD BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE NEVER TOO LATE FOR FATHER JESUS AND SPIRIT! ACKNOWLEDGE HIM RIGHT WHERE YOU'RE AT! MOMENT BY MOMENT COMMUNICATION! I WANT TO TELL YOU. YOU NEED TO GO TO GOD RIGHT AWAY! BECAUSE GOD DOES KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON! I DO KNOW THAT THEY ARE EVIL &. WICKED. BELIEVE ME THEY ARE NOT GOOD!

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

Is all deference churches around the world are true Christians according to the bible ?

[@toomanymarys7355]

The invisible church consists of the true Christians. It exists spiritually. The visible church are the people who gather in various places in God's name. Some are in "churches" that teach a false Christ and a false gospel and almost all the people there will go to hell because they aren't Christian. But there are people who are Christians in name only in every church.

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

@@toomanymarys7355 Every church?according to Jesus christ only one way to everlasting Mathew 7:13-14,5:14-16,so which are this true Christians according to the bible not opinions?

[@vusimngomezulu2500]

@@toomanymarys7355 What is their name Acts 15:14?

[@zoro5035]

It makes sense to see Christian truth through blurry glasses when looking at other religions almost like the truth is trying to get out. The idea that all other religions point to no truth at all is not quite true, equally the idea that all religions point to the same truth is obviously wrong and false. Church fathers have looked at not just Judaism but the pagan religions of the time to show how they were all pointing to Christ. Saint Justin Martyr is one who did this. This is light perennialism, not claiming the truth exists in all religions but it’s pointing to Christ.

[@joabnathanperez195]

Most of Christianity is Modeled after the Throne of Pergamo when holds replacement Theology. How come a system of religion that Claims a Lord and Savior that happens to be born a Hebrew Jew, Lived and walked like a Hebrew Jew, died like a Hebrew Jew and resurrected as a Jew too completely denies the Torah and the Prophets worshiping on SUNdays calling the Lords feats done and away and now believes and bows down to 🎄 trees, believes in Elfs and raindeers as well as Ishatar Bunnies that lays eggs, does anyone ever ask those questions ?

[@mondaynightbible]

I don't know any genuine Christians who fall under your description.

[@joabnathanperez195]

@@mondaynightbible Christianity is a byproduct of a Greco-Roman “Man fathered church” Catholicism is rebranded in is concept of “Protestantism” in any shape de animation or tradition. If you read scriptures beginning to end ABBA’s instruction in Torah and Prophets you will Se the purpose of Messiah is the rescue of Israel among the Diaspora (exhile) “dispersion” I know people can be genuine but also genuinely mislead by tradition or dogmas Ask the tough questions study and perhaps the Truth will set you free

[@mondaynightbible]

@@joabnathanperez195 You assume much yet know nothing about me. I’ve read the Bible from cover to cover and i study the Torah. I simply don’t agree with your conclusions due to my own life experience and what Ive learned from Scripture.

[@joabnathanperez195]

@@mondaynightbible I talking about Christianity as a System I don’t know you or how you like your pancakes or your coffee in the morning all I said was “most” and then on an specific the man made system of Christianity good to know you study Torah

[@mondaynightbible]

@@joabnathanperez195 I fully understand what you meant.

[@jessfish1044]

Isn't the Bible "the Living Word"? This interview seemed to be tone deaf. The arguments against Perrenialism actually sounded like biblical teachings. Idk if more explanation was needed or what?? I'm really not trying to sound rude, only trying to give my most honest feeling about it. Thank you.

[@phillipswain8608]

I agree, when you get into the weeds of the debate of which worldview is "True", many things overlap when you take a step back, they needed to focus on the key differences that shape they're overall theological "rules" if you will. The problem is, Christianity's claims to absolute Truth are harder to convince, but they do have a philosophical/allegorical allure, among other things. To most critical thinkers, Perennialism will seem the more reasonable worldview. Basically this channel is just criticizing the Perennialist worldview because it does not align with the interpretation of the Bible that they see as being most sound/with integrity... so it's a messy conversation, I wish I could call in and question the host with my insights.. saying this as a current agnostic who has flirted with Christianity, and wants to believe its the Truth, but my mind just can't square all of the confusion in and around it..

[@phillipswain8608]

@Dustin Neely Thanks for the tip! Can you direct me to any more information on that? Are you also considering the gnostic christians and other early textual differences in the first few centuries AD? I think it was more united than it is now, but maybe not completely?

[@theTavis01]

@Dustin Neely what about the Coptics?

[@theTavis01]

@@phillipswain8608 you will drive yourself insane trying to find a human to explain the Bible to you properly. The Bible was written by the Holy Spirit through the prophets. So, you need the Holy Spirit to understand it. The way to do this, is to read it with an open heart, and faith that it is true. "And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual." 1 Corinthians 2:13

[@narniasc]

I have read two of Benner's books that I still find helpful in ministry -- Strategic Pastoral Counseling (1992/2003) and Sacred Companions (2002). These seem to be orthodox, even given a second look with this video in mind. The Gift of Being Yourself was published in 2004, so that may be the point when the Perennialism started to appear in his writing.

[@lindararey8641]

I couldn't catch the last name of the Richard guy. Anyone have it?

[@kjkernSerendipity]

Rohr

[@lindararey8641]

@@kjkernSerendipity Thanks! I thought I was hearing "Ward", but when I searched for that all I came up with a famous hairdresser!

[@kjkernSerendipity]

@@lindararey8641 you might get better theology from the hairdresser!😄

[@lindararey8641]

@@kjkernSerendipity 😂😂😂😂

[@wk1810]

@@kjkernSerendipity 😂 savage!

[@GOLDSMITHEXILE]

see to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philospophy that depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ

[@stephenmichaels6682]

According to our apostle paul’s ministry in the King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross,spilled His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Spilled Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.

[@erics4802]

I think when we're trying to parse out what all these things, we need to be cautious with scope & frequency assumptions. God did make everything and it was all good at one point. The wisdom found across the globe is what is true (it rains on the righteous & the wicked after all) but the religious formulations are not necessarily true. I believe Scripture, through the Spirit, informs us and leads us in truth and that God is not barred from revealing Himself to anyone of His choosing. That is different from saying that competing faiths are true, only that people will have sustained themselves on nuggets of God's truth even if they do not know Him well/clearly.

[@franciscomartinez5983]

There's only one Catholic and apostolic Church. Matthew 16:18. God bless my separate brothers and sisters

[@franciscomartinez5983]

@Dustin Neely catholic Church is perfect. Human beings don't

[@ueseflpc]

All religions come from one person! the devil.....even Christianity only follow Jesus the word that became flesh the visible image of the invisible God our father in heaven he is the truth and the life one God who died for us and defeated death Hallelujah!

[@robertfields7688]

In a sense, this is true. All religions/traditions, apart from Jesus, is truly rooted in the same source. Hint: It’s not Jesus’ Father.

[@grimlund]

God is bigger then any religion on Earth. If these two people would have been born in Afghanistan they would have been hard core muslims. We know it and they know it but they dont dare to admit that. The fear of Gods wrath keeps them in their deluded mind. You choose your belief based on what culture you was raised in. Honest question: What are the evidence that the Bible is the superior book?

[@captcrouton]

I can't speak for everybody (anybody?), but you should listen to Alisa Childer's testimony. She definitely went through a deconstruction of her faith. There's someone who really did homework about whether the Bible is legit, her faith is more than just a hand me down, etc.

[@johnnychrome7708]

Truth

[@youtubeuser8393]

Real woo vs counterfeit woo?

[@artistart55]

We have to caution ⚠️..Christianity is getting watered down by people writing books about spirituality. Then Jesus said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. When it comes to your 😇FAITH😇 only read The Bible. Revelation 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

[@sunflowerheather7019]

I used to say we all prayed to the same God. Now i realize many follow a fake jesus let alone the rest of the religions. The path is narrow indeed. Pray for the eyes to see but be prepared for a great shock. For the delusion is vast and deep.

[@MisterCharlton]

Lol I think you miss the point 🤣🤣

[@jacobparrinello9600]

The theologians of the world all disagree but the mystics of the world all agree. i know naught but gnosis. 22k views 2 years ago, 222. aint that neat. inlakesh.

[@chardo24]

Marcia Montenegro, Why is it so important for you to call another religious belief false, crazy, ridiculous, without the hearings as to why this person is speaking? Jesus Christ say to Nicodemus and to the Samaritan woman," God is not a religion." Jesus will merge the religions and dissolve the “better thans,” the superior thinkers, the controllers of people, using God as the avenue. God Almighty is of freedom, love, comfort, and growth; anything else that is said and surrounding God Almighty is taught in error! Glory be to God Almighty!

[@Kris77777]

God is Almighty. That makes Him Superior and Supreme. Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life. That makes Him exclusive and set apart from the rest.

[@chardo24]

@Desire Of All Nations never forget that the worst truth is better that the best lie. Jesus say to Nicodemo and the Samaritan woman people created religion not God. God is not a book an idea. God is Spirit .God must be worshiped in truth and spirit. Choose to worship your religion idea of God , lose the love you were seeking. Choose to to worship God in spirit and truth and the love you are seeking is ready and willing to take you own, no matter who you are and what you have done. The limitation is your own

[@chardo24]

@@Kris77777 that makes God Almiighty absolute not separate from us. This reveals you have a very narrow and exclusive mind. To say Jesus is the only way to God which is a relative political act has nothing to do with love in the sense of Jesus Selmon of the Mountain where you suppose to love not only your friends but also your enemies.

[@siennacatherine35]

People just need to stick to the BIBLE. It’s very hard to stray from. It says don’t add or take away for a reason. All this extra stuff is a lie. It confuses those who know the truth on purpose because God is keeping us on track. This is all so extra! Thank you for talking about it

[@fingerzfrienemy2226]

Uh, masonic? Trash.

[@jacintowilliamson5597]

You should try reading Thomas Keating... also try centering prayer..

[@st.mephisto8564]

"Do not cast pearls before the swine"

[@wk1810]

Saw this coming many years ago when Muslims, Jews, and Catholics started climbing into bed together, and warming each other's feet on their common views.

[@prince-electorsnoo2540]

This a lot older than your comparatively miniscule lifespan. Perennial/Traditionalist schools of thought have always existed in religion and the most well known adherents (like the Italian philosopher Julius Evola) are from the late 19th and early 20th century