Phoenix Kings of Ulthuan Tier List! Lorebeards Rate the Legendary Rulers of the Asur!

[@faceoctopus4571]

(paraphrasing) 31:09 Andy: I want to argue with Sotek Sotek: About elves? Nah, I’ll just go with what you say 57:14 Andy: Caldor I caused the Sundering

[@jackruby6696]

Hell yes! I would love if we did a lorebuiding of the missing everchosens

[@jakewu8268]

That’s actually a pretty good idea.

[@serbeardington]

i assume at least one would be a woman, since it would be rather stupid for there not to be one

[@HolyG.23]

Agreed!

[@luigisuper4143]

I think at least one should be an elf.

[@jackruby6696]

@@luigisuper4143 one should be a halfling

[@pieguy5323]

How to be a good Phoenix king? - Be named Bel-something Thanks for the stream, I really liked this because I knew nothing about other kings (and thought Tyrion was a phoenix king because I only really play tww3 and new to the lore)

[@coorenshima3912]

That's why Belakor is the best!

[@x0lopossum]

17:20 [Aenerion the Defender] 31:12 [Bel'Shanar the explorer] 48:28 [Prince Imrik (The One before modern day Imrik), also known as Caledor the Conqueror] 1:09:10 [Caledor the second, also known as Caledor the warrior. He is the son of Prince Imrik, Caledor the Conqueror. 1:22:32 [Caradryel the Peace maker] 1:51:50 [Tethlis the Slayer] 2:10:06 [Belecor Halis the scholar king] 2:14:40 He fought a war against Monsters from the Ulthuan mountains, fascinating! I didn't monsters lived on Ulthuan, I thought Ulthuan was relatively safe 😱. 2:25:22 [Athis the Poet] 2:34:16 High elf courtly Intrigue gets successful, good Asur general disgraced. 2:36:50 This Phoenix King almost got some dark elves yo defect to hos reign because he was vringing back the worship of the more evil elveb gods in Ulthuan. 2:43:40 [Morvael the Impetuous] Saddest Phoenix King 3:02:00 [Bel-Hathor the Sage] He created the White Tower of Hoeth, and his spirit/ghost still wanders the tower to this day. 3:05:30 High Elves realize humans have expanded in many places around the Old World. 3:15:38 [Finibar the Seaferer], the Last pre end times Phoenix King 3:30:30 [Malekith the Witch King... and maybe Tyrion?] 3:38:20 Dark Magic is essentially the magic of Chaos/manipulating Chaos and you can control daemons with it.

[@lord_alderaan9283]

I'm really hoping we get Finubar the Seafarer as the final legendary lord for the High Elves in Total War Warhammer 3 just so he can get his time in the sun finally.

[@Raheghar]

I agree

[@ScepticalAgnostic]

Finubar would be great, Aislinn is more likely though

[@ryanwoodall6428]

I concur!

[@alfredmontjovet2024]

Absolutely loved the stream, I really hope to see more of them in the future !

[@davidmckhazad]

58:00 Andy the peacenik: Caledor the First should have just let Malekith (aka Stalin) take over.

[@ecth97]

Big High Elf fan that has been patiently waiting for Lorebeards episodes about the High Elves specifically (favorite non Tolkien take on Elves by far) so this was a fantastic episode, love the attempts to add complexity to otherwise black and white characters like Caledor the Conquerer and even Malekith, who I definitely tend towards being in the hate camp for.

[@krankarvolund7771]

"You need two people to cause a war" Yeah, but one of them is the agressor, the other just have to defend themselves ^^' Malekith was explicitly rejected by their chief God, but they should've still accepted him as a king? Knowing he assassinated most of his rivals? I'm sorry, that does not sound like a good king at all ^^' And when we see what the Dark Elves became under Malekith's reign... yeah, Ulthuan definitely dodged a bullet on that case. I don't care about Malerion's retcon, for most of history, Malekith was a pretty evil king XD

[@Drakenn100]

"We go to lustri- Let's go back from lustria" I almost died laughing xD

[@SkallyWag11]

This was great fun! I feel like it's a pretty solid and reasonable list at the end of the day. Maybe for a Halloween stream, you could think about doing a tierlist of the Vampire Bloodline founders / progenitors.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Bel-Khorandis: I'm tired of being a Phenix King, I'm gonna retire and become a tourist guide for my magic tower XD

[@Vulpes89]

lol I think Andy realised blaming Caledor I being responsible for the sundering was a load of bull when he admitted he just likes being contrarian immediately after. Good stream

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

honestly a QnA like stream where you guys just vibe and answer questions feel that would be really nice for a once in a while idea.

[@jamesr1371]

Don't mind about the tier list specifically, but would love a lore stream in any form about stuff like Emperors, high kings, council of 13 etc

[@sovereign9708]

Ahh to be aethis the poet at the beginning of his reign….”damn this is a pretty sweet gig, I don’t even remember why we were so worried”

[@rocketroux5838]

Just realized how crazy it is that Andy has to go to bed at 4h00 am for those :P Poor guy !

[@biofoot7874]

Ranking streams are pretty dope! And this one is a blast! Maybe the next ranking could be: rank by ability to make comfortable chairs

[@PumpkinGoblin]

Tier list of green skin warbands

[@samhobbs9116]

People from Glasgow saying "Purple burglar alarm" would be a much different thing than Andy saying it.

[@noavgg]

A video about Aliathra and how such a character could have affected the elves, since she has an aspect of three different gods that could represent each the three elven faction. this assuming that the end time doesn't happen or is very different.

[@wraith762-ph8lx]

I can't say that I know the details of it but frankly if by drawing the sword of khaine doomed the world or the elves then that makes Aenarion the worst tier possible regardless of any of his other achievements.

[@jakewu8268]

Aenarion did. He cursed all his immediate descendants and his entire people when he drew that blade.

[@stefvanroey8191]

But... he also saved the world with it. Who else would have slain those 4 greater deamons at the isle of the dead?

[@bubbajoezappern]

Yes-yes! Council of 13 stream!!

[@jefrosiers8880]

I missed another excellent stream, it seems i have a lot to catch up to

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

Perfect placement for Finubar, my favorite Phoenix King, and probably my favorite High Elf character outside of Alith Anar. For all the hype he gets surrounding his accomplishments as a diplomat, politician, and explorer, there are plenty of avenues surrounding his character that if they had been given the proper focus they deserved, I think it would be impossible for most people to not consider him to be bar none the greatest Phoenix King of all time. Potentially speaking, he is the perfect blend of statesmen and warrior that the Warhammer World has seen, even over Karl Franz. The sword he has, which is made of star metal that can create "bursts of molten light", was a gift from Ind which was given to him by saving the daughter of one Ind's coastal kings. This same sword was used by him to kill a hydra, which while not the craziest feat in comparison to other named characters, shows that he is a warrior of some level of skill. He has walked the entirety of the Old World and sailed most if not all the oceans and come out unscathed. During Malekith's invasion alongside N'kari, he is heading the defense of Lothern whilst the battle of Finuval Plain is occurring, as the city is under siege. Under his rule, as Sotek pointed out, so many invasions have been defeated and or repelled. If he had been given more focus, I can only imagine the improvements that would have been placed upon the High Elf navy and the city of Lothern itself. He may have even supplied improvements to the High Elves culture and use of magic as well, given his apprenticeship to Bel-Hathor & counsel from Belannaer. At the end of the day, Finubar is the GOAT. Give this man a model already GW. There is literally no reason to not do so.

[@kylarstern17]

In my, somewhat biased, opinion Bel-Shanaar was at best B-tier. He was granted kingship at an extremely easy starting point, as all of the actual threats to Ulthuan had as this point been practically defeated. Most of the colonies were established while he ruled, not because he ruled, and would have been established under pretty much any other phoenix king. Most of Bel-Shanaar's achievements were the achievements of the princes of Ulthuan that he, at best, didn't hamper. He failed to prevent the cults from gaining influence and when they finally reached a breaking point he had to, admittedly cirrectly so, call on Malekith to resolve the problem for him. Bel-Shanaars reign was less his reign and more the reign of the princes of Ulthuan which he simply oversaw. TLDR: Bel-Shanaar just got lucky and the Elven Golden Age was mostly unrelated to him.

[@stefvanroey8191]

I started being up in arms about this one, but by the end i must say you started to convince me. But because i cannot help but be a contrarian: that is what made Bel-Shanaar such a good phoenix king, he was more of a manager than an inspirational leader. He made sure everything ran smoothly and everyone worked together. If he was not good at something, he delegated the task to someone that was. And he was good at recognizing who was good for what. He was even willing to abdicate for malekith when the situation called for it.

[@legiovicta6759]

❤ to you both!

[@TJBHorror]

A question - obviously the War of Vengeance was devastating for both sides, the dwarfs included. You mention that it marked the end of their golden age. Could it be argued that even IF the war had never broken out and all those lives and ancient runelore were saved, we’d still find them in pretty much same state as we know them now because of the slann priest’s meddling with the mountain range and all the devastation that unleashed? In other words, their decline is often attributed to the elves and the war, but are the Lizardmen really at fault here?

[@GemniTwin7201]

yeah my opinion of both of them plummeted in this video when they start advocating genocide. Both of them say about genocide that its great if you accomplish what you set out to do, and it depends on what sort of people you believe those getting killed are.

[@matthewlowry1084]

Going over the ever chosens and crating one would be dope

[@AlephFlux]

If you ask me, the most fun parts of the 4 brothers streams were speculation on underutilized/explored parts of the setting, and seeing you two "at play" like we do here and in Who Would Win. For the first, Ind/Araby etc. streams would be nice, with the caveat that you might want a cultural consultant. Alternatively, just going into depth on, say, the Southlands LZM or what a Laurelorn army would actually look like would largely avoid that issue. For talk-based "at play" streams, putting the obvious (end times, kremlo) aside, I'd love to hear any lore y'all came up with for your tabletop armies.

[@ej.crusing6130]

So how closely does an elven court resemble Glastonbury?

[@theniceadmiral8488]

Andy keeps critizising one King for one reason and then critizising another for doing the opposite. What is important for a phoenix King to do? What do you judge them by? Pick one and then hold them all against the same metric. Or if you dont want to influence people maybe talk about both sides? Also i would like to have heard what sotek thinks about a phoenix King before andy gives his oppinions or even challenge him on a few things he says (that i would say are double standards). Maybe this stream just wasnt what i wanted it to be. It feels a bit like the versus streams where it was not about who would actually win but who can come up with the most convincing take that isnt neccerarily coherent.

[@ServantoftheGreatHornedRat]

Slann tier list!

[@wabisabi3753]

Morvael is from Yvresse not Saphery. And I always found it interesting that Yvresse got two Phoenix Kings although they never really were a Powerhouse of the Elven Kingdoms.

[@monthlyscoopltd]

So, today's lesson amounts to "even the best Elves are Bels"?

[@1701Emperor]

Witch King tier list next?

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

Don't worry, unless specified use the rule "elf bad" undiscriminately

[@K740601]

Dwarfs kings rakings orc waagh raking please

[@danielbutchers998]

The sundering is the fault of the second phenix king, he had a 1000 years to deal with malakith and instead coddled him u said it yourself he was about to give up the crown to malakith before he was killed by malakith, if calador had not of rallied the elves against the traitor (and u can’t deny malakith and his mother are traitors) all elves that are left would be dark elves. Yer not all the elves on the side of malakith where evil at that point most where and the rest where useful idiots tricked and if I’m honest that’s as good as being evil, if caldor had truly won then he would have ended the dark elves. Oh and on the second one he is c maybe b tear, yer he re built after the sundering but he had long enough to do it he faces no challenges other than stopping a rot in the hart of the elven kingdom that being the cults and malakith. You must judge a king by the times he faces and how well he did in them

[@nait5340]

pfft... asur propaganda. we all know that there is only one person deserving of that throne.

[@mateuszz259]

And that's Kremlo

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Phoenix kings who die peacefully is High Elf propaganda.

[@TomatoRoll]

I suppose all I can say is, screw Dark Elves and it's a tragedy Tethlis died before he could complete his task.

[@davidmckhazad]

All political careers end in failure.