7 Reasons We LOVE The Latin Mass w/ Jacob Imam

[@Skid-sn3xe]

Thank you for this episode. You both have articulated why I have left our fist-bumping, hippy-music, NOM parish. To drive my family 2.5 hrs to Latin Mass.... I have 9 children 4yo-17yo.... I am fighting for their souls! Our priest refused to give my family the Eucharist because we take it on the tongue. He would move lines when we approached. It hurt my younger children. They have come to really love the Latin mass. My dyslexic Son can actually follow the Latin (it's incredible)... my wife said yesterday "I love how manly it is."... plus my daughters look beautiful with their mantillas. Thank you so much. God Bless you both.

[@johnharkness6304]

Excellent, keep your spirits up, always. Churchmen come and go, our Hope is in Our Eternal Saviour.

[@Skid-sn3xe]

@@Kitiwake What is a disgrace? Being pushed to a TLM? I feel I have been called to it since a Novena I did to St Joseph a few years ago. I need to give my children the best chance at salvation. I grew up in a NOM parish, have always gone. My parents were refugees during the '70's changes and never could explain why the "changes" occurred. I know there are beautiful and reverent NOM Church goers (my parents are some of them), but I see most of these churches "graying". We were the ONLY young family to continue going to our local NOM during the lock-downs & we suffered a year of our priest not wanting to give us communion (at least the deacon would). My resolve has been solidified now. I will travel however far it needs to be to attend TLM. Which saddens me. I love my Church Community. But, the irreverence has become to much.

[@bennyefendie]

@@Skid-sn3xe Do you mean to reject giving the Holy Communion on the tongue automatically or because of the restriction during the pandemic?

[@Skid-sn3xe]

@@bennyefendie He would not give to my family. He gave to others on the tongue. But, whatever side of the church we sat in mass. He would see us and switch lines with the Deacon. My kids, would ask, "will he switch lines again Dad?"... We have found out since that we weren't the only family this had occurred to over the years. I want to add, that this wasn't the main reason for us to leave. It just pushed me over the edge. There is other things that I will not bring up. But, the reverence of the TLM. My children's happiness, just with going to the liturgy (which is more than I felt when I was younger), & my Wife's growing love of the mass. Has solidified our Love for this expression. What the priest does for us at the mass is so beautiful. I never knew all these prayers they say for us, the Holy souls in Purgatory, & all the Church. They aren't in the NOM. We can't un-see it, un-feel it. It has nothing to do with even the people around us... its truly about Him! So, beautiful.... I feel I was robbed of my birthright.

[@bennyefendie]

@@Skid-sn3xe, I am sorry about the "rejection" that you experienced. I am sure that you have forgiven the priest. From what I know in the GIRM of the Roman missal, it is said that a priest should not reject faithful who wish to receive the Holy Communion on the tongue.

[@kathycorkery]

I’m 64 yrs old so my first masses were the Latin. Attended St Teresa’s grade school in Lincoln NE and we had DAILY mass before school, also said the Pledge of Allegiance as an entire student body in playground after mass. Recently i I purposely drove 1 1/2 hrs to attend the Latin mass in Cedar Rapids that started at 8:15 AM. It blew me away! So transcending! So reverent and I WAS ACTUALLY PARTICIPATING IN THE SACRIFICE of Our Lord! The people and priest were so hospitable and helpful! I have been trying to get back there ever since! There is no comparison to the new mass in my opinion because we parishioners get absolutely no silence during which to COMMUNE WITH AND LOVE ON OUR LORD! Is that what we want?

[@a.t.c.3862]

Was the Last Supper held in silence? The Ladin Mass has become a thing of evil, an abomination against the Church; the Incense of Satan has entered the Church through it, stupefying bad Catholics making them enemies of the Gospel.

[@alhilford2345]

@@a.t.c.3862 : The Mass is not a supper, it is the sacrifice of Calvary. Why else would it be called the SACRIFICE OF THE HOLY MASS? And at Calvary there was silence and prayers. Jesus Himself prayed the Psalms as He hung on the cross. There were no happy-clappy singers. No guitars. No drums. No piano. No tambourines. Our Lady and the Apostles walked solemnly away from the cross bearing the Sacred Body of Christ in their arms. At the Latin Mass the people walk solemnly away from the altar bearing the Sacred Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus within their bodies.

[@noelleramsey2413]

I’ve always felt that music in the NO feels like an intermission, where it really does feel a part of the prayers in TLM. Part of that definitely comes from the usual selections at each.

[@kimfleury]

I've noticed that when the music plays people actually get up to go to the bathroom 🙍🏼‍♀️

[@hamie7624]

@@Kitiwake Vatican 2 didnt call for the Liturgy to be in the vernacular.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@hamie7624The Gospel doesn't call for Mary not to have other children besides Jesus, a perpetual virgin conceived without sin snd incapable of sinning, mediator of all graces or assumed into heaven body and soul. Start pulling at one thread, others will pull at others, and pretty soon we will lose the whole fabric.

[@claymcdermott718]

@@Kitiwake It’s great that your parish is reverent. My parish has the EF and a reverent OF. I’d just say that, historically, parishes like yours and mine probably wouldn’t exist if the Latin Mass hadn’t survived VII

[@gch8810]

@@a.t.c.3862 The Gospel does require that. As the Marian doctrines exist in order that we will have a proper Christology. In order to have a proper view of Christ one must have a proper view of Mary. All the early heretical groups within early Christianity denied the perpetual virginity of Mary, along with her being the Mother of God. You as a Protestant bear much resemblance to those early heretical sects in this respect.

[@laurenlee961]

I attend TLM about once a month at my Dominican Parish in Houston, Texas. It has taken about a year, but I FINALLY have learned Latin and can sing the Salve Regina in Latin at the end of each mass, without my song sheet. It has been FUN learning the old language and this past Sunday I made a point to go to TLM, and I had an experience like none other at mass, for the first time. Our cantor in the choir loft is a professional songstress, who was singing in Gregorian Chant Latin. During the Psalms and Communion her singing sounded like the angels and after Communion, at the altar rail, while praying I had this experience with Jesus, that I cannot explain. It was the first time in TLM, that I have ever felt this and I think it was because I can finally participate in this ART FORM and know what is being said....the incense, the chanting, the visuals......Everything was heightened after I received the Eucharist. It was life changing.......what everyone must understand about this confusing edict by Bergoglio is this: as a modernist, he has stated that he does not like the trads (in 2015) and that he is persecuting and alienating the already UNIFIED Bride of Christ, by bearing false witness against us in his Mode Oproprio (sp?). It doesn't make sense!! Especially when the German Church is in Schism right now and he attacks only one segment of the RCC that is living the faith more than any of the others! I don't fear any of this. Because Jesus is in control and he has a plan. If I have to travel a couple hours to get to my monthly TLM in the future, then so be it. Maybe this is a test for us, with God testing how his faithful handle this idiocy. Even Padre Pio was prevented from giving Mass in public for a time. How crazy was THAT!?!?!?!?!?! But, because I belong to a Dominican Parish, Our Novus Ordo masses are filled with Gregorian Chants in both English and Latin....we ALWAYS have communion on knees at the altar rail and we always say the St. Michael Prayer at the end of all masses.......Our Bishop will not be getting rid of any TLMs anytime soon as the masses are packed and the Dominicans will never stop it.....no way.

[@patriciaeb1320]

I tend to feel anxiety before going to a NO Mass because there is no provision for those of us who want to kneel, receive on the tongue, from a priest. It’s very awkward and I find myself worrying about it during the Mass.

[@pr_disaster2238]

My advice would be: when in doubt, do it. The very worst the priest can do is humiliate you in front of the whole congregation, which can be good for the soul, if you take the opportunity to respond with humility. Also, if the priest does respond negatively, you’re now aware that you need to pray for him. Courage doesn’t come easy, but the Holy Ghost offers that gift to us when we have the opportunity to do what we know is right.

[@alhilford2345]

Ask your priest before Mass if it would be possible. Express your concerns. Some priests will allow you to receive after Mass, when he can sanitize his hands. If he refuses outright then you know his position.

[@hopefull61256]

Can I receive on the hand at TLM?

[@JodianWarrior]

There is a provision for it: it's considered a right for the faithful under current Canon Law. No priest can refuse to you communion because you are kneeling and/or want to receive on the tongue. Only in very extraordinary circumstances is that possible, and it is the bishop's decision, not any individual priest's.

[@mattmackinnan8557]

@@hopefull61256 no

[@ReginaldPierce]

Listening to this made me realize how blessed I am. Most of the things they said they love about the traditional Latin mass I have experienced in the ordinary form parishes I have participated in. I feel very sad for those who haven't and especially my heart goes out to those who regularly attend the traditional mass. I was shocked that this motu propio came out at all and especially by how strong the language is in it

[@PakRoc-dev]

My parish had an excellent priest who celebrated the NO mass with a high sense of reverence. Most of the "Susans from the parish council" were very much about the new-age style of mass, including guitars and bongo drums. He kept them happy enough while bringing the tabernacle back to the center of the church. It had been in a chapel behind the main sanctuary, and most parishioners never knew the chapel was there, and brining in some new beautiful traditions. His Easter Vigil was also one most beautiful celebrations of the Holy Eucharist I have ever seen. Then the diocese moved him and the parish became absolutely new-age once again.

[@katiedecker4644]

I gotta be honest I have been to Latin mass with my grandmother in Chicago and felt totally lost. I was happy to go back to non Latin mass. This year I’ve been doing the Bible study podcast with Fr Mike Schmitz and listening to you guys and I feel more drawn to it then ever. I’m praying for our Holy Father but I feel like the Latin mass should be respected and appreciated not condemned and I haven’t been to Latin mass in years but I do feel called to it, more so now which is interesting timing. I appreciate the things you are pointing out and makes me want to pursue attending the Latin mass at my own church more often.

[@UserUnknown_333]

I heard a priest say that his advice to everyone is to go to the TLM and just observe and take it all in for two months... then go back to the NO Mass and see which one you prefer. I'd also suggest Sung or High Mass over the Low!

[@michaelshelbysuberlak]

TLM didn't grab me at first either. I felt disconnected to it. But now, I feel it's absolutely the best thing for me and my family.

[@anglaismoyen]

Hot take: making some alterations to the mass was probably the right idea. Namely, reading the scriptures in the vernacular, speaking audibly, perhaps a *little* more dialogue from the congregation (e.g. reciting the full Pater Noster instead of just the last line). They could have even pared down the Domine Non Sum Dignus to just one recitation instead of three, and similar alterations like that which don't change the essence of the liturgy, just little alterations to the language, number of recitations and how things are said. But it should have remained ad orientem and retained all of the beautiful prayers of the canon in Latin (the ordinaries and the canon are easy to learn because they're obviously the same every time), and kept bodily gestures such as kneeling for communion. I'm sure there would have been some opposition to even the changes I suggest above, but we wouldn't have nearly the issues we have if it was just that, and many people do find the current 'extraordinary form' an acquired taste at best.

[@michellemcdermott2026]

I was the same...however now I love the Latin Mass.

[@michellemcdermott2026]

Yes definitely look for a High Mass

[@Rosarymaker]

I am a new convert. Matt Fradd, your show has helped me greatly to understand many things about the faith of the Catholic Church. It has been a beautiful journey into The Church up until now. Now it feels like I managed to come into the Mass and immediately got hit in the face with a pie from the food fight that has been going on inside this whole time. Please, use your profile for the glory of God instead of what you consider beautiful with your human eyes. Instead ask yourself what God considers to be beautiful: humble children that care more for being One with the Father and His children than to enjoy incense at the Latin Mass. I’m a noob and know nothing except the reason God called me into The Church was to humble myself and bring my family into Unity with the Body of Christ.

[@meRickard]

47:45 speaking as a priest, it is so nice to feel free from the pressure of that temptation

[@IrishWriter]

Best moment, around 1:22:40: Matt: Have you ever heard that song? Jacob: No, but I'm really sad that it exists. That is my exact feeling about all novus ordo music.

[@zestotemp]

I really appreciate Jacob’s comment about abrogation (that liturgy is not subject to “abrogation”). Usually even we rad trads are afraid to make that claim, since we’ve been stigmatized and called heretics for it. The low mass: the low mass is a good option during the week, when there is no consistent choir/competent cantor available to sing the necessary chants, and for truly private masses. A sung mass is best on Sundays and feasts of precept. Lessons in Latin: much ink has been spilled on this, Jacob, but the readings ought to remain in Latin because, though they are instructional (especially the lessons from Paul and the Gospel like on Sundays) they are also acts of worship. The proof of this is that the lessons are NOT sung facing the people. The one year cycle, if the people have been going to this mass since infancy, by the time they are young adults, they are no longer being “instructed” during the 2 minutes or so it takes to chant/read the epistle or Gospel: they are praying it, they are knowing it, they are ratifying it. That’s not to say that scripture can be exhausted; on the contrary, having it in Latin allows the seasoned massgoer to still recognize the mystery in the pericopes he hears from year to year. It would be an error I think to imbibe the selections from Paul merely as instructional and not mystical, but in all honesty reading them in English makes this tempting. From the Novus Ordo paradigm, Latin readings seem exceedingly difficult, because there is a three year cycle for Sundays and a two year cycle for weekdays. But in the old mass, there is just a one year cycle. And on weekdays outside Lent, the Sunday readings are repeated (feria), OR there is feast of a saint or a votive mass, whose readings are taken limited number of selections that the congregation quickly grows attached to. It is a less perfect thing to mix the liturgical language with the vernacular language (so I think the Eastern Catholics made a mistake in introducing vernacular as well). There is also the problem of translation: the Sixto-Clementine Vulgate IS the Bible of our fathers. We deserve to hear our Lord speak through it, and its peculiarities of translation given us by Divine Providence. Any good that may be gained from English readings is offset by these other considerations.

[@veronicac1199]

Story he told about his mom after mass...wow. Gave me chills and brought tears to my eyes. So beautiful ❤️

[@lalliepombuena6023]

I just started going to TLM during this plandemic and was very surprised that communion was received on the tongue. We did social distancing for awhile but went back to normal after a few weeks. I feel the chills on my spine every time I take communion and hear the chants at high mass….I LOVE IT!! I felt sad to leave my NO church at first and cried about it, prayed about it but it seemed like God gave me signs to make the decision to make the switch.

[@carmendenia3352]

Forgive me the terrible pun, Matt, but when you said about the candles, "I don't make a cent from that." I thought to myself, "I don't make a scent from that." Hahaha. (But in all seriousness, thank you to you and Jacob for this conversation. It's a blessing, just as both of you are.)

[@johnharkness6304]

Very good 😃👍🏻

[@asvananda5328]

It was a beautiful Presentation show from both of you. Thank you so much, I’m scheduled to go to my first Latin Mass this Sunday. My father side is Greek orthodox and I’m anticipating the Latin mess may have a similar feeling for me. As some would say, watch this space…

[@dinaandrade5415]

Latin Mass

[@kimfleury]

I prayed the 3 Hail Marys with you, and had already prayed another 3 each for you and Jacob 🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻🌹🌹🌹🙏🏻📿✝️

[@mancipiachristi9032]

Need to do a 7 reasons why you love the Byzantine Divine Liturgy. I've never been to one but I'm sure many are considering it as an alternative option if TLM is abrogated in their diocese.

[@Mrs_Homemaker]

Our bishop already halted our only TLM within days of the MP. We have been working to get one locally for two years (the one available was 2.5hr away). I doubt it will happen now. It's heartbreaking. I have loved every time I have managed to go to a TLM bc I don't feel pressure to participate. The Mass will happen with or without my response. Sometimes it's nice to know I can just watch or rest in the moment (or wrangle kids) without feeling guilty for not saying or doing enough.

[@thepilgrim8336]

So sorry to hear this Samantha… be assured of my prayers. I hope you are able to find a way to attend the TLM though I realize that may not come without enormous sacrifice.

[@kimfleury]

My heart goes out to you. I haven't yet heard what my Bishop is going to do, based on his past decisions it could go either way.

[@michaelshelbysuberlak]

Thank you! As a mom with small children and babies, this is one of the things I love most about TLM. Just show up and get the grace. I don't have to feel like I'm doing a sing along when its all I can do to keep my babies from climbing up the walls. The mass is there for the sake of the Sacrament and I don't have to act like I'm at a concert or something.

[@Jerds]

When you guys talked about how you understand why people pray the rosary at a low mass, it actually describes in my Fr Lasance Missal that it’s one of the things you can do at mass in order to participate. This is because the scriptural readings are not primarily for people to hear and understand, but are offered up as part of the sacrifice to God. People gaining knowledge is an incidental benefit of the readings if you were able to understand/can read it. That’s why priests read the epistle and gospel again during the sermon and read it in vernacular.

[@a.t.c.3862]

All this is why the old Latin Mass needed to be reformed. Readings of the word of God in a language people did not understand? Believing that understanding His word is something incidental? Being physically present at Mass, but not being able to hear the whispered prayers or understand them? Praying other prayers and devotions - but not the prayers of the Mass? Obviously the passing of the centuries had messed things up quite a lot.

[@a.t.c.3862]

We should definitely NOT go back to that.

[@hamie7624]

@@a.t.c.3862 You're making the common mistake of thinking that the Mass is about you...It's not. It's for God.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@hamie7624 So you're saying the 'N.O.' is wrong.... and there you have it: that's why we need Traditionis custodes.

[@hamie7624]

@@a.t.c.3862 when did I say that?? I said your mindset concerning the Mass is wrong. Your argument, like that if the Holy Father's, is a strawman.

[@gerddonni2017]

Absolutely great show! You guys are intellectually brilliant, and still humble and with a loving heart! Thank you so much! Kind regards from Switzerland.

[@Jerds]

St. Alphonsus Liguori has an AMAZING meditation on each part of the mass and the symbolism for each and every move of the mass and how it all follows and mirrors Christ’s passion. I have tried using the meditations at a NO but it’s not as easy because a good portion of it is taken out.

[@MB-yy7mk]

Hi @Gerald! Very interested in knowing the title of this book. I hope you can post it here. Thanks!

[@a.t.c.3862]

How would St Alphonsus's meditation fit in with the Ethiopian, Greek Melkite, Syro-Malabar and other Catholic Rites? Would they fit well together?

[@a.t.c.3862]

Plus, in what you call the N.O. - because in that form of the Mass you can actually understand the readings and the prayers - THESE should be the source of your meditations at Mass - there's no need for anything else. Full, conscious, active participation at Mass is one of the gifts of the Second Ecumenical Vatican Council. In the old Latin Mass the priest 'said' his Mass, in whispers mostly, and the members of the Congregation did their own thing; praying from their prayer books or their rosaries, being brought together by the sound of the credence bell.

[@MB-yy7mk]

@@a.t.c.3862 I'm a latin rite catholic. So yes, St. Alphonsus' meditations will perfectly fit in, as will the meditations of all the latin rite saints.

[@MB-yy7mk]

@@a.t.c.3862 I have a missal with latin and english side by side. I read the mass readings in english before I come to mass. And for the nth time, this is not about the language. I will be ok with a mass completely in the vernacular as long as they keep the rubrics of the TLM. And re the priests mumbling his prayers - in the TLM, if you don't hear what the priest is saying it just means that it's not meant for you to hear it. Contrary to popular belief, the mass is not about us the laity. It is a sacrificial offering to God. So all prayers are directed to Him. The part of the mass that are directed to the people are all said loudly. And again, you have the missal to refer to if you want to know what the priest is saying to God. God bless! - from a NO attending catholic

[@riderofrohan8840]

Thanks for using my comment Matt! Excellent video as always

[@Bore241]

Hi Matt. I never get in contact with tridentine mass but I can see that you brothers and sister are very hurted by this last mp. I pray that our shepherd will bel able to keep us all together in this walk to Paradise. I've been happy to see your smile, knowing you can endure this difficult time is very important to me.

[@margocatholic]

Taylor Marshall has inspired me to pray the Rosary daily. He’s the opposite of angry - he’s constantly telling us to be kind and friendly and to NOT troll other people online.

[@connorbergeron639]

Well balanced, gentlemen. Praying for you.

[@navinfernandes747]

I hope in this feud, we don't forget that the eucharist is about the transubstantiation of bread and wine into the body and blood of christ... everything else is secondary to this miracle that happens in front of us... God bless us all!!

[@soniamartin2007]

That is the 'crux'. Where a church is constructed to accommodate the 'Old Mass', there is no doubt that the Eucharist is the purpose of the building.

[@dwpjoyce]

And that's why I go to the old Latin Mass - the reality of transubstantiation is treated with such wonderful reverence by the priest and faithful, which elevates our faith in His Real Presence, rather than trying our faith and distracting us. As they said in the discussion, the "clothing" of the Mass matters.

[@SciVias917]

Amen. That is why I was convinced to leave the parish of my childhood where a priest tromped about, baaing like a sheep during mass once. I didn't think anyone actually believed the Catechism in that NO church. TLM brought me back.

[@MsTupton]

P.s. I just finished ordering candles from your friend. Can't wait to smell them 😀

[@sheetalsilveira9554]

Awesome show guys…loved it..loved it…loved it!

[@johnnyGoosePGH]

The dream team! Love you two together. Two friends who love the Church just chatting and chilling

[@joshuaneace6597]

As of right now, the parish I’m in the process of transferring to currently offers the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, but I can maybe start attending the Eastern Rite (I don’t have a Byzantine Catholic parish nearby but they have a Maronite parish nearby). I think that Bishop Foys has given protections for the parish that offers the Extraordinary Form.

[@delemaitreful]

As a newcomer I get a great deal of encouragement from watching your interviews Matt and it pains me to see you guys struggling to understand why this is happening. I have been a student of Catholicism for some years now after leaving the JW religion and am in the process of becoming Catholic; this seems to be a natural and fluid process for me and inevitable for any serious student of the faith. Despite the many problems within the church, the true faith is a beautiful and comforting thing to welcome into oneself. With that said, I take courage in the knowledge that, from its inception, the church has been attacked by the secular world and corrupted from within and this will necessarily get worse because it has been foretold. You’re doing a great job so please keep doing as you are. Thank you!

[@minorityvoice9253]

I love the TLM because of its clarity in its teaching of the theology of sacrifice and priesthood.

[@a.t.c.3862]

Except that you don't REALLY understand it - you're just posing with your right-wing anti-Church attitudes.

[@Leocomander]

@@a.t.c.3862 I honestly do not understand this level of uncharitableness and hostility towards those who attend the TLM. This person just explained why the TLM brings joy to them and you just respond with an uncharitable attack. Why is it that one just mentions the TLM and people automatically feel attacked and proceed to respond with such voracious venom and hostility towards other because of their devotions.

[@alhilford2345]

@@a.t.c.3862 : How can you judge that this person does not "REALLY" understand it? Perhaps it is you who doesn't understand it! But the Latin Mass is not difficult to understand. Consider the saints and martyrs who understood it well enough to suffer persecution, torture and death for this Mass. Are you admitting that you are not as intelligent as they were?

[@nnovo3122]

@@a.t.c.3862 Typical leftist mind reading. How do you presume to know what he understands? Ad hominem attacks are not convincing or even an argument.

[@pamelavanover2722]

@@a.t.c.3862 ??? Where did that come from?

[@josephdiodati839]

As an Armenian Catholic who has been going to the same Armenian Catholic Liturgy since I was born 35 years ago, I'd be extremely upset if the Pope "cancelled" our mass and said we must celebrate the N.O. I've never been to a TLM, but after Traditionis Custodes, I'm planning to attend one as soon as these lockdowns in Sydney are lifted. So there you go, Pope Francis. Your plan is backfiring. Maybe he should public address the German priests and bishops instead of targetting devout, TLM loving Catholics.

[@bennyefendie]

Hi Joseph, I think that comparing the Armenian liturgical rite (or Byzantine rite as mentioned by Matthew) and the use of the two forms of the Latin rite side by side is different. May I ask whether in your Armenian Catholic Church, they are priests and faithful who practice different forms of liturgy, one from the current missal and another group from the antecedent missal like the situation mentioned in the Motu Proprio?

[@bruhidk3069]

ultra based

[@matthewjames9167]

Thank you Jacob for talking about the unity. I was thinking about that today (3 days after this was posted) and before listening to the episode. So several days after the motu proprio, I’m not sure where to go with this yet, I’ll get there eventually. I’m going to keep going to Latin Mass. thanks fellas

[@anthonyburke3000]

The silver lining to this Motu Proprio is that it points out the modernist bishops in the Church. Simply avoid the dioceses where they don't allow the Old Mass.

[@juliasmet6052]

It s not that simple. Bishops are not attached to a diocese permanently

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@Kitiwake Please read the Apostolic Letter and the accompanying explanatory letter. Basically, it's because it has been weaponised against the Church. See the following paragraphs: I. An opportunity offered by St. John Paul II and, with even greater magnanimity, by Benedict XVI, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities, was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division. II. But I am nonetheless saddened that the instrumental use of Missale Romanum of 1962 is often characterized by a rejection not only of the liturgical reform, but of the Vatican Council II itself, claiming, with unfounded and unsustainable assertions, that it betrayed the Tradition and the “true Church”. The path of the Church must be seen within the dynamic of Tradition “which originates from the Apostles and progresses in the Church with the assistance of the Holy Spirit” ( DV 8). A recent stage of this dynamic was constituted by Vatican Council II where the Catholic episcopate came together to listen and to discern the path for the Church indicated by the Holy Spirit. To doubt the Council is to doubt the intentions of those very Fathers who exercised their collegial power in a solemn manner cum Petro et sub Petro in an ecumenical council, and, in the final analysis, to doubt the Holy Spirit himself who guides the Church. III. A final reason for my decision is this: ever more plain in the words and attitudes of many is the close connection between the choice of celebrations according to the liturgical books prior to Vatican Council II and the rejection of the Church and her institutions in the name of what is called the “true Church.” One is dealing here with behaviour that contradicts communion and nurtures the divisive tendency - “I belong to Paul; I belong instead to Apollo; I belong to Cephas; I belong to Christ” - against which the Apostle Paul so vigorously reacted. [ In defense of the unity of the Body of Christ, I am constrained to revoke the faculty granted by my Predecessors. The distorted use that has been made of this faculty is contrary to the intentions that led to granting the freedom to celebrate the Mass with the Missale Romanum of 1962.

[@lionheart5078]

@@a.t.c.3862 actually very beautifully written by the pope.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

or ... do what is required of good Catholics by Lumen Gentium 25 - give submission of mind and will to the fact that "the liturgical books promulgated by Saint Paul VI and Saint John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite.": "This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."

[@lionheart5078]

@@angelicdoctor8016 great point

[@folofus4815]

I disagree with the idea that edgy folks on Twitter had anything to do with the Motu Proprio. They’re just a convenient scapegoat. It’s not the first time they tried to kill this mass, there were no edgy Internet personalities in 1970s.

[@liamcroatt171]

Thank you. I'm a traditional catholic, though I've been unable to go to a TLM for a very long time. However, the more chaotic things get, the more encouraged I become. Because of the absolute dedication and excitement of millennial catholics to for tradition, I truly think that reverent traditionalism is destined to flourish, and as the transition from one generation to the next (especially considering the lack of generation-X clergy) becomes more and more of a reality, things will become more and more chaotic, and I think it'll come to a head when we have a millennial clergy and a boomer Vatican. I don't mean to say that boomers in general are at fault or anything of the sort. I have a deep respect for that generation. But it is that age group that seems to more commonly be opposed to the traditional catholic, which is why I use that term. However, all I'm meaning to explain is my enduring peace that comes from an increase in chaos in regards to this issue.

[@anthonyburke3000]

The silver lining to this Motu Proprio is that it points out the modernist bishops in the Church. Simply avoid the dioceses where they don't allow the Old Mass.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@Rachel James I know. Let's also reject all the pagan stuff about Mary as mediatrix of all graces, perpetual virgin, immaculately conceived, assumed, etc etc.

[@NeonShadowsx]

@@a.t.c.3862 lol what? 😂

[@angelicdoctor8016]

The TLM, while good, doesn't adequately reflect the mission and vision of Vatican II, also good

[@bennyefendie]

Matt....I wish that you could also have a talk to highlight the beauty of novus ordo form of mass. I learn that with NO we introduce more ample readings of the Old Testament, as well as the readings of New Testament. Active participation of the faithful, because they understand the prayers and the readings. Participation of lay people in the liturgical ministries, as readers, acolytes, choir, etc. The Eucharist has also many aspects, not only the sacrificial aspect, but also communitarian worship, praise and thanksgiving, expression of unity, etc.

[@rsmyth75]

But the fact is, its a complete failure!!!!! The church was packed at every Mass. Now our church are empty!!! They will know you by your fruits!!!

[@alhilford2345]

Many people will tell you that if they go to daily Mass ( Novus Ordo ) for three years they will hear the entire Bible. Actually, they will hear 90% of the Gospels, 55% of the rest of the New Testament and 13% of the Old Testament. The Epistle and Gospel are read at the Latin Mass to praise, God, not necessarily to instruct the laity.

[@zestotemp]

In the tradition of the Latin Church (and in all the eastern Churches) it was inappropriate to proclaim the Law and the Prophets on a Sunday or high feast day. Adding the extra reading is a departure from the most ancient traditions. Surely the people can read their Old Testaments at home.

[@bennyefendie]

@@zestotemp , I read in Luke 4:16-20, Jesus himself proclaimed the writing of the Prophet Isaiah...

[@zestotemp]

​@@bennyefendie So you're saying the universal custom of all the apostolic Churches is wrong because of something Jesus did in a synagogue? That's not Catholic bud.

[@LinaSis9]

The first time I attended a Latin mass I didn’t like it. I had no idea what was going on. Maybe a year after that my dad wanted to go to the Latin mass so I joined him. I don’t know what changed but I remember loving it the second time around. I can still remember thinking, “I’m home!” Once I got a better grasp on what was going on I was amazed by the beauty. The novus ordro is like the bare bones of the mass. We’ve been starved for a generation of this life giving, grace filled mass!

[@mikepoulin3020]

A common reaction....it is best to go the first few times as an observer and avoid trying to keep up and find the right place in the missal...just absorb what is going on around you....

[@sheetalsilveira9554]

Love Monsignor Charles Pope…can’t wait to listen to him❤️

[@OrlandoJOlmo]

May God bless you both for sharing your experiences and love for The Lord and The Latin Mass. Please help me pray for those who do not have a TLM near them.

[@chasefowler5446]

Responding to the interview’s point on whether or not the readings are to be in Latin or the vernacular, I would advise reading the traditional ordination rites for subdeacon, deacon, and priest. You will notice that in all three ordination rites there is a particular offering each sacred minister offers to God for both the living and the dead. This is most clear in a Missa solemnis (Solemn Mass). 1) subdeacon: offers the Epistle 2) deacon: offers the Gospel 3) priest: offers the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass In a Low Mass and Missa Cantata (Sung Mass), and in Solemn Masses where the readings are doubled by the priest at the altar (or bishop at the throne or at the faldstool) while they are being sung, these particular offerings are accomplished by the celebrating priest. There is in all things in the TLM an offering, a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving to God, clearly defined and noteworthy of reflection on the great mystery of the Mass.

[@jmjaquinas7298]

A beautiful explanation! Additionally, the power of the Word of God on our souls is such that it benefits us even if we do not understand the words. It is a cleansing bath for our dirty hearts and a healing balm for our wounded souls. Also, the readings are generally repeated in the vernacular during the homily, which is very benefícialas well

[@NathanMeffert]

Another thing that doesn’t get talked about that should: Mass is MORE inclusive in Latin than the vernacular. It’s hard for me to see how the abandonment of a universal language leads to MORE unity. I think you need to do some real mental gymnastics to come to that conclusion. I can worship with people from all backgrounds in the TLM (in any country or community in the world for that matter), and with a universal language, we’re all brothers and sisters in Christ because we’re all on equal footing. The same goes for other forms of non-verbal communication in a traditional setting such as statues, stained glass, imagery, complex movements in the servers and celebrants, bells, kneeling, receiving on the tongue. It all adds up to break down boundaries in the body of Christ. It’s simply wrong to say that removing those things leads to “inclusion”. Instead, I think it clearly leads to division-and not Our Lord’s “good” kind of division.

[@basednwhitepilld]

Excellent assessment. It's only logical that the UNIVERSAL church speaks the UNIVERSAL language 👍

[@pattymcintyre6200]

Because of this distance, I only attend TLM a few times a year. When I do attend, I feel small while seeing Our Lord as infinitely large! I also feel so very, very precious because I truly believe the Lord sacrificed Himself for me! Our cantors, at our parish Mass, sing in an opera-like style and are very hard to understand. The celebrants seem to play a part in a performance. Concentrating on their own part, without the Ever-Present feeling of awe and wonder during the TLM.

[@richbudd23]

I love listening to these men chat, but honestly, I haven’t heard anything essentially related to the Latin Mass. I know my experience is unique and not the normal Sunday Mass, but all these points (preaching, mystery, beauty, sacrifice, etc) can be found in a good Ordinary Form Mass.

[@folofus4815]

Yeah, if you have the unicorn Novus Ordo. Most are not so reverent.

[@richbudd23]

@@folofus4815 my point is about what is essential about the mass. Plus, honestly, while yes, it used to be a unicorn, but it isn’t so much any more.

[@roses8631]

There’s a priest here that does the NO in Latin. Ad Orientum. Bishop Anthanasius Schneider also celebrated a very reverent NO Mass in Latin at our Parish. I just like the Happy Clappy NO liturgies and people coming to Mass in shorts, immodest dresses, clapping after the Mass and chatting in the pews.

[@richbudd23]

@@roses8631 I think you meant you DON’T like it. And hear hear. But again, those aren’t essential to the ordinary form. My own diocesan parish is ad orientem, communion kneeling and on the tongue, Latin, chanted antiphons, etc. etc.

[@anthonyburke3000]

@@richbudd23 The parish you go to then has the unicorn NO, which most traditionalists refer to. In all honesty, this whole thing with the Mass would've been avoided if they (the bishops) had done one of two things in the first place: either never have changed the Mass or provided a well thought out, reverent, traditional New Mass which was well implemented. But neither happened, and here we are. You even have to admit. Your average NO Mass is not anything like the one at your parish...

[@jacksoncastelino04]

Praying for Restoration of Traditional Latin Mass

[@janbaker3683]

In reply I would gently add that we all need to have the same attitude as John the Baptist, "More of Him, less of me." At Ordination, a priest dies completely to himself and enters into Christ's priesthood. In saying that, I do not deny the humanity of any priest. In any parish, there are people who love them. Blessings.

[@Tabatista281178]

Well, I grew up in a Novus Ordo, in one of the most Catholic countries in the world, and I can say I saw all sorts of abuses, and I thought it was all normal, long story short, I end up losing my faith. Moving to US and start attending a Novus Ordo mass where the priest celebrated with high/proper reverence made me rethink everything I knew about Catholicism, and going to what we call the EF made everything make sense! Pope Francis is Legit, Vatican II is Legit, but for the first time Ever, we had an ecumenical Consilium that did not address any heresy, it only focused on “pastoral teaching”(whatever that means), it about time we all realize it failed miserably (although some argue it achieved its objectives), vocations are withering, there’s no difference between a regular Catholic and everybody else in the world.

[@kimfleury]

And a State Senator in New Mexico, Joe Cervantes (D) publicized that he was denied Communion, but he didn't say why, he just asked for prayers for the Church "because the US bishops have to come to grips with the fact that the pope is making changes." His Bishop issued a statement that he (the Bishop) had attempted numerous times to contact Cervantes privately to provide pastoral counsel regarding a bill Cervantes had sponsored that repealed New Mexico's 1968 le making abortion illegal. Even though Roe v Wade is "the Law of the Land," if anything overturned that Supreme Court ruling then the old law would go into effect again. Cervantes had co-sponsored the bill to repeal the law so that if Roe v Wade is ever overturned, then New Mexico can make abortion legal. And _that_ is why the Bishop directed his priests to deny Communion to Cervantes. But Cervantes's response is evidence that Catholics like him truly believe Pope Francis is going to make it Church Law and Doctrine that abortion is ok. So it may very well be that V-2 failed extremely miserably indeed

[@rmx687]

What Jacob said about his mom's moment of clarity was almost word for word exactly how I felt the first time I went to an SSPX low mass.

[@a.t.c.3862]

I just felt the ill will, the pride and the arrogance of those new pharisees, neo scribes.

[@NeonShadowsx]

@@a.t.c.3862 lmao bro 🙄

[@NeonShadowsx]

@@saintsm so true

[@soniamartin2007]

@@a.t.c.3862 My experience of those who assist at the 'Old Mass' is courtesy, gentleness, and worshippers not focused on each other, but on Our Lord.

[@michellemcdermott2026]

@@soniamartin2007 me too

[@bennyefendie]

After all the debates about Summorum Pontificum and Traditionis custodes, etc..I begin to think that probably the best is to invite the experts in both TLM and NO to have a serious study about liturgy and then to integrate the lost good and beautiful elements from the "tridentine mass" into the novus ordo form, so that we won't have to use different missals...we do not have to fight over retaining the ancient missal, when we already have the new missal.

[@zestotemp]

The only reason to retain any element of the NO is if the TLM were somehow deficient. The existence of the NO presupposes that the TLM is deficient. So they cannot be combined. The Latin Church should return to the traditional books as they were before any reforms, more or less at the end of the forties, including the calendar from that moment. And for the breviary, as its psalter stood in 1909 before the changes of Pius X, with concessions that only Vespers, Lauds, and Compline need be recited on pain of sin by the secular clergy, but with a generous indulgence attached to the recitation of each of the other hours. As a concession the rites in these books should be translated literally and honorably into a LIMITED number of linguae francae vernaculars (perhaps as few as English, French, Spanish, and Italian) for those not ready for Latin, which would be the majority of the Latin Church at the moment. But the Church should declare that the rites preserve their integrity the best when Latin is used exclusively without the mixture of vernacular, that a fully Latin liturgy is always to be preferred, and the Church should declare that the Latin ceremonies can never be replaced by the vernacular without the consent of the priest. With this reform, simple and imperfect but sufficiently good, out of the way we can get back on track with liturgical sanity in the west: the calendar of Saints can be diminished of its excesses-the only problem with the late forties calendar is that most feasts were of the highest rank-without denying that some new Saints might be added, rarely. Anything short of what I just said will not do justice to the Roman rite, and will be a tacit insinuation that the un-reformed rites were deficient.

[@claymcdermott718]

We don’t need to all have the same missal. In my area we have 1 great NO. We have plenty of TLMs. We have lots of different Eastern liturgies. We have an Ordinariate. We have a Dominican rite. Uniformity is not a value in the *Catholic* Church. We don’t need to fight, **precisely** because we **don’t** need the same missal.

[@bennyefendie]

@@claymcdermott718 , may I know whether in a particular Eastern rite, for example: Maronite or Byzantine rites, do they have communities who use more than two forms of the same rite? Here we are talking about the one latin rite, with two forms. I have heard also an ultra-traditionalist priest, who refused to use the Missal of 1962 and condemned SSPX as heretics, because according to this priest, Pope John XXIII is a heretic, so the missal that he promulgated is also invalid. I am not sure whether he celebrates the mass using Pope Pius V missal or even the older form.

[@claymcdermott718]

@@bennyefendie To answer your first question: Yes. the Catholic Church has 7 different rites (6 Eastern) and every one of those (except the Ge’ez) has multiple different forms within them. And within the Latin rite, there isn’t just the Liturgies of John XXIII and Paul VI. There’s (as mentioned) the Ordinariate form and Dominican form and Sarum Use and Mozarabic Use, all within the Latin Rite. This isn’t a new thing. And why are you making this distinction in the first place? Like, various rites are okay, but you cannot have more than one form of the same one? And it doesn’t matter whether there are people who hate various forms. You’re just like them, demanding only one form.

[@zestotemp]

@@claymcdermott718 I don't disagree with letting it work itself out per se. I think that the Church will naturally gravitate back toward the traditional Latin Mass. If there is a "reverent Novus Ordo" that is not discouraged by the bishop, it would probably eventually go full TLM eventually.

[@engunto]

My wife and I prefer the Low Mass. The world is so noisy and I don't just mean sound but that too. The Low Mass is quiet and sacred.

[@LadyK007]

Love love love low mass!!!!!

[@peaceandjoy2568]

Thank you, Jacob, for the profound insight into the Truth of the Mass through your mom's words. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Christ is not entertaining us at Mass, He is doing what, out of love, He set out to do, saving us by offering the Holy Sacrifice of His Body and Blood on the Cross at Calvary to the Father in order that we may be restored to Him and be delivered from losing the greatest treasure we can ever desire.

[@imnotsmartlikeyou75]

Does anybody remember "new coke"? How did that turn out?

[@edmundsonuga-barke526]

Fellas, I found your interaction very moving and humbling as it reminded me so much of my own bubbling enthusiasm when I first found the TM thirty years ago.

[@jwolsk2]

I've never attended TLM and I'm heartbroken

[@dwpjoyce]

Time to start now - it is beautiful, profound, elevates us to the transcendent, a little bit of heaven on earth...

[@saturdaysolitude7800]

@@dwpjoyce It's just not readily available everywhere. Don't live in a bubble.

[@Dim-yz6wk]

Matt is looking rather dashing with his hair slicked back 💯

[@MsTupton]

You brought up a really good point: should we as a unified Catholic church have 2 different ways to have the Mass? If not which one should we have? The one that has been around for over a thousand years or the new one?

[@alhilford2345]

True. The Church always identified as "Catholic" because we had one liturgy, universally accepted, and one official language.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

the TLM was good for its time, and it does not sufficiently reflect the mission and vision of Vatican II

[@navinfernandes747]

Should we also have circumcision becuase ultimately christianity and hence the catholic faith is an extension/fulfillment of the Jewish religion

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@Justin Orrock yes it will, Justin - in fact, given that new priests cannot say the TLM without explicit permission from Rome, this is a gradual removal of the TLM, in favor of the Ordinary Form which better reflects the Vatican II mission and vision for the Church - reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form is the way forward

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@Justin Orrock sounds like you want the growth of the TLM? The TLM is certainly not the Mass of the Vatican II reforms, so what are you on about? The TLM in fact is insufficient liturgically in light of the Vatican II council, since it doesn't represent the mission and vision of Vatican II. Listen to your hope - that a Motu Proprio from the pope doesn't have the intended effect - right out of the playbook of Martin Luther?

[@taylorbarrett384]

Matt, your audience is primarily conservative Catholics, most of whom are already on the side of those who prefer the old rite.

[@paterfamilias2410]

Not every one of his audience started out that way. I’m one of them.

[@CTdonnner1991]

Not true at all. I didn't even know about TLM until 7 months ago. I never looked back after going to my very first one.

[@swbroszko]

@@paterfamilias2410mM

[@pamelavanover2722]

I've never been to one. In our small city, I am happy to have a Catholic church nearby. I would love to though. Is EWTN considered a Latin mass?

[@taylorbarrett384]

@@CTdonnner1991 you just proved that it's true

[@chromebook1794]

Great video 😀

[@Littlemermaid17]

I find it ironic that those who love the TLM feel the need to be almost apologetic of it and absolutely assure everyone that they are ‘not judgemental’ and recognise the NO. Meanwhile in actuality it’s those who rigidily reject TLM that appear most accusatory and judgemental ..

[@drewblack749]

Maybe I can enlighten you. Lefebvre would not accept he second Vatican counsel. Because of that, he disobeyed Rome’s instructions and ordained 4 priests. Thus, he began a confrontation that has marched through the decades.

[@kateguilfoyle5155]

@@drewblack749 and this motu proprio has shown that he was absolutely correct

[@michaelshelbysuberlak]

The idea of rejecting Vat II used to be out of the question for me. Now, I'm not saying its not 'valid' but I seriously question whether it was a net good for the Church.

[@kateguilfoyle5155]

@@michaelshelbysuberlak yes, it’s funny isn’t it? It has made me seriously question things that I didn’t think about before. I’m TLM and not against V2 (& I don’t know anybody in the vast number of people who do question V2) and yet this act by the Vatican makes me say to myself - what are they so afraid of?

[@claymcdermott718]

@@drewblack749 You’re mistaken. Lefebvre signed all of Vatican II’s documents. SSPX was created before his excommunication. All the controversy over his ordinations came after the debates were already going.

[@vannisanti3798]

Jordan Peterson said that one thing with beauty is that it emphazises how ugly/flawed something is in comparison. I think the TLM does this with the novus ordo. When compared the flawes of the novus ordo are clearly shown. I think that is what some people fear.

[@vannisanti3798]

@@Kitiwake Read my comment again with an open heart and you will see that you have misunderstood. I never stated that the holy mass was ugly. Something can be beautiful or more beautiful than something without the other being ugly. A bouquet of flowers can be more beutiful than a single rose, but that doesn't make the rose ugly. Although the bouquet of flowers with all it's different flowers and colors clearly emphazises characteristics that the single rose lack. The same with TLM, It clearly showes beautiful characteristics that the novus ordo lacks. Things have been removed from TLM to create the novus ordo. In a crisis the mass can be done in 3 minutes just consacrating the bread and wine. Compare that to a TLM or novus ordo for that matter done in a beautiful church with beutiful music. You would clearly say thay the liturgy done in a church with music is more beautiful than the one done in 3 minutes with nothing but the bread and wine. That doesn't make the 3 minute mass ugly, but clearly lackning what the longer liturgy masses offer.

[@kateguilfoyle5155]

Nailed it!

[@clq2461]

First I would like to applaud Jacob for wanting to hear the negative comments. I really admired that he wanted to know why some people do not like TLM verses just hearing the comments that support and uphold his views about Latin Mass. Thank you! Also thank you to Halley lujah for inviting conversation verses attacking opposing views. She was so kind and encouraging in the chat. I have spent time defending TLM Mass to others and I have brought people to these Masses so they can experience it. Unfortunately even though I used to love the TLM Mass, over the years I have come to dislike it more and more. I have been attacked by TLM priests who then encouraged their followers to attack me as well. I have listened TLM Mass supporters weoponize devotions verses encouraging people to try them in a way to draw closer to Jesus. I have had seminarians make the TLM Mass a priority when they are supposed to be at a NO parish to help prepare for Easter and Christmas Masses. Because they did not take the NO as serious or a priority it has caused problems at the NO Mass because people were depending on them with a lot of important liturgy items. I have had a seminarian brag to me that he not only prayed his LOH in English but Latin as well. All these examples point to something that I is either intentional or not and that is there is this kind of attitude that TLM Mass goers feel that they are superior and better then all others. This attitude unfortunately has been embraced by so many new priests. I will be honest and admit that I am scared that I will get a TLM leaning priest at my NO parish and I will eventually be asked to leave because while I am Orthodox, I realize that I am single w/o being part of a religious order (I do not feel called to marry) nor have I provided the Church with new generations to carry on the faith. These are often the vocations that are upheld and looked as a sign that you are a "good and faithful" Catholic. As I listened to this conversation, sometimes the worst examples of NO are being applied to all NO parishes. There are reverent NO Masses. For example, in our archdiocese, our priests are ordained in a NO Mass and those Masses are very reverent. From my personal experience, I love how I feel welcomed at a NO parish whereas at the TLM Mass, there were cliques or no one acknowledges you or invites you in after Mass. I love that I can veil at a NO Mass without it being treated that I am doing it only as a sign of how holy I am. I love that a priest wants to greet and talk with me after Mass verses hiding in a sacristy. I love that we have big families at our NO Mass that are loud and noisy and I love that mothers feel comfortable to breast feed during our NO Mass. I love that I get to sing beautiful and prayerful hymns in the pews. Because of health issues, I admit that I love having a comfortable pew that is easy to get up and down from. I love that most of the NO parishes in my archdiocese have made perpetual Eucharist Adoration a priority thus giving us a lot of Adoration Chapels to go and visit. The TLM parishes might offer Adoration in a small timeframe throughout the day when I am working one or two days a week. I love that I can pray the Mass without having to follow a Missal. I love how a word in my language during the Eucharist Liturgy or some other part of the Mass will bring me to tears or a moment of great joy. There are plenty to love about the NO but you have to be willing to be open to it. I know that there are plenty of good and faithful TLM people out there who do not deserve the treatment that the Pope gave the TLM crowd. Unfortunately like the bad NO people, the bad TLM people have caused a lot of problems. Most of the bad behavior from the TLM people I noticed prior to what Pope Francis did and then became to full light afterwards. One thing that I never understood about the rad trads is that if your Mass is so perfect then why are you so angry when people criticize it or do not praise/uphold it in a way that you approve? So often their anger would remind me of the religious leaders of Jesus time when Jesus called them out for their bad behavior. If your worship makes you that angry then maybe you are worshipping wrong.

[@ChuckP123]

Hey Matt. You should try to get Peter Kwasniewski to come on the program to discuss the TLM. He is an absolute fount of knowledge when it comes to the historical and symbolic nature of the TLM.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

Actually, Peter K. is a fount of dissent, as he rejects the Motu Proprio of Francis and he rejects Lumen Gentium 25 which says this: "This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking."

[@danielredle8498]

@@angelicdoctor8016 Shouldn't Matt Frad be willing to dialogue with those on the peripheries ;). Anyways, there are also Cannons, saints, papal statements, passages from the the Bible etc... that offer a counter point about when it is appropriate to disagree with a pastor including the Pope. The Faith is remarkably balance on how to approach authority though there is a lot of reading to find it all. Fr. Ripperger is a good place to start. Dr. Kwasniewski is very knowledgeable and understands many of the subtleties about his topic and is rarely inflammatory. Even if he comes out too strong in his response this time around, it is very understandable and I'd argue much of his diagnosis of what is happening is correct. Anyways, the video was great!

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@Justin Orrock like I said, Peter dissents with his own protestant interpretations that are opposed to the most recent authoritative ecumenical council -- they way you put it is essentially a cover "he may believe this motu proprio is not authentic magesterium". Peter has no authority to decide what is or isn't authentic magisterium - the arrogance is astounding, though. Peter, like every Catholic, is required to give "religious submission of mind and will" to this teaching: "The liturgical books promulgated by Saint Paul VI and Saint John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite" and the entire Motu Proprio, not to sit in judgement over it as Pope Kwasniewski.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@@danielredle8498 " I'd argue much of his diagnosis of what is happening is correct" = you also dissent against Pope Francis? Maybe, maybe not? Sure Matt Fradd will do whatever Matt Fradd wants. To your point, though, there are no papal statements that promote dissent against the Bishop of Rome. It's possible though to twist the words of saints (who never dissented against the teaching of any pope) and even to twist the words of Sacred Scripture (e.g., Paul vs. Peter argument from liberals and trads is in error, since Paul never challenged Peter's teaching, only his behavior). Either way, I didn't say "don't have him on" - I think it would be good to expose the errors of Peter Kwasniewski.

[@danielredle8498]

@@angelicdoctor8016 I think your view on this might be a bit narrow... I could look up quotes from multiple sources etc and then you could etc ad nauseum and we wouldn't get anywhere. Although your objections are easily answered (not just by trads but conservative theologians, and common sense) I leave you with this, there are many reasonable people who are well educated who have grave concerns about the new Motu Proprio etc. Maybe there is something to their concern that should cause you to pause and do a thorough investigation of those concerns. Either way, have a good day.

[@shane9095]

Hey guys kinda new to looking into Latin masses I know I’m may be too late to attend. But I was wondering if anyone knows the difference between high mass low mass solemn mass? I see some of these distinctions of mass types. Can anyone explain? Thank you and God bless!

[@zestotemp]

Solemn mass is sung, and has a deacon and subdeacon assisting the priest, besides the several acolytes. The choir sings several mandatory parts of the mass. A low mass is recited, not sung. The priest recited everything. If there is music, the choir does not sung any of the liturgical texts but just hymns. One or two acolytes assist the priest. A “high” mass, that is, a sung mass that is not solemn, lacks a deacon and subdeacon, and all but two acolytes, meaning there is no incense. The choir sings what it would sing at a solemn mass. It looks like a low mass but with the chant. Or, a “high mass” can have several servers, so that there is incense, in which case it looks like a Solemn mass, just without the deacon and subdeacon. The Solemn mass as well as either kind of “high” mass is the ordinary expression of the traditional sacrifice. The Solemn was ordinary in larger Churches, but in more distant regions the “high” mass was always used as well. The Low mass is used on Sunday for the extra masses, but the solemn/high mass is the one you want to go to if you can. The low mass is also used on weekdays when a consistent choir cannot be relied on.

[@shane9095]

@@zestotemp well thank you so much that is a lot more than I was expecting!! If I could bother you with one last question if you do attend Latin masses which do you prefer or find the most reverent?

[@zestotemp]

@@shane9095 I added a bit at the bottom. Given the choice I would always choose the Solemn mass. Even if it were offered every day. But I would also probably go to low masses and serve as the acolyte. In a perfect world if I had time, both low and solemn every day. I guess they’re equally reverent, but the Solemn/high mass is preferred if possible as the main mass of the day, or at least of Sunday.

[@shane9095]

@@zestotemp dude thank you so much God bless you. I am really new to all this stuff and this is incredibly helpful. God bless you. I always laugh at the idea that Christians are so judgmental! I’ve meet so many nice helpful Christians like yourself over the past 2 years. That understand how difficult it is to live the faith! I really appreciate the in depth analysis and help it was beyond expected and beyond helpful. God bless you!

[@janbaker3683]

Having the priest celebrating Mass ab orientum would prevent priests from making the Mass all about them, more like TV entertainment than a holy liturgy. I've never been to a Latin Mass but listening to you both, i want to go. Australia. Blessings.

[@justinward3218]

Ah! You finally made a second channel for clips! This channel was getting a bit congested and hard to find the full episodes.

[@justinward3218]

I wonder how often these folks looking down their noses and denying the legitimacy of the NO and whatnot are actually sedes anyway.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@justinward3218 Schrondinger's Sedes: sometimes: yes and sometimes no.

[@johnharkness6304]

Wow Australia's very far to go to Mass😃 just kidding, you're absolutely right, it's a magnificent Ceremony.

[@clq2461]

Unfortunately I have a come across some TLM priests that have made the Mass about them. It is human nature to want to be loved and upheld as being important and TLM priests are not immune to this desire.

[@alexiosgrillis]

As an Orthodox Christian, former catholic, the latin mass was fantastic. It was the last type of mass i went to before becoming a catechumen in the orthodox church. And so this order from the pope has me keep y'all in my prayers. However i do have to ask to ask the question. If the pope can so nonchalantly take out a type of liturgy that was so significant to the history of the Catholic church, what is stopping him from writing away the eastern rite? It seems to me that it is a bit of an overstep by the man in Rome.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

that's what it means to have the "keys to the kingdom" Alexios; Orthodoxy doesn't really get that, right? Isaiah 22:15-25 gets at the point in typology - Davidic Kings, including King Jesus, have a prime minister who must be obeyed, since he has the keys to the kingdom

[@alexiosgrillis]

@@angelicdoctor8016 we don't have a pope, no. But i feel like this attack on the latin mass was a bit too political. This has serious consequences for future popes, as the current cardinal college despises tradition. I just think it was a poor decision, given the fractured nature of the Catholic church today. This just sets a precedent to start knocking out other beautiful liturgies.

[@soniamartin2007]

@@angelicdoctor8016 The keys are not the personal possession of the successor of Peter. Vatican One infallibly teaches that 'the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successor of Peter that by the revelation of the Holy Spirit they might disclose new doctrine but that by His help they may guard sacredly the revelation transmitted through the Apostles and the deposit of Faith and might faithfully set it forth.'

[@soniamartin2007]

@@alexiosgrillis The 'pope' is a necessary mark of the Church of Christ - Holy Unia. As to the limits of papal power, Vatican One infallibly teaches that 'the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successor of Peter that by the revelation of the Holy Spirit they might disclose new doctrine but that by His help they may guard sacredly the revelation transmitted through the Apostles and the deposit of Faith and might faithfully set it forth.'

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@@soniamartin2007 I 100% agree that the " keys are not the personal possession of the successor of Peter", since every pope dies. You're also right about Vatican One. However, what I think you're implying (wrongly) is that Francis has violated Council teaching, which of course isn't true, since it cannot be shown. The Holy Spirit won't let popes teach error. He loves us too much for that :)

[@truthangel5948]

It’s a blessing and refreshing to hear the opinions on the TLM here. Although I’m so sad to hear the opinions on supposed trad Catholics. I consider myself a trad since I was reintroduced to the TLM (about 7 years ago) and go here exclusively. I have never seen or heard any of the trads I know say anything bad about the NO to new attendees. Know I was once in the NO and very active in all activities there. Now that I’ve left my NO friends are not so nice to me. They hate the TLM and have let me know vocally. Know that in the TLM parish we make sure we never say anything bad about the NO church to NO people who come and we listen and take any abuse they give quietly. When I first started attending the TLM I was also attending the NO and I thought I could live in both worlds, especially since my local NO church was 3 miles away while the TLM is 17 miles away. It’s not convenient at all. But after attending the TLM and then attending the NO I could see myself they are not the same Mass. I had invited a Protestant friend to the NO mass and she told me afterward it was the same as her church. This was a little shocking but thinking on this it became apparent it’s true. The way people dress and talk all through the mass and then all the hugging and shaking hands and loud taking all through the mass ?? Why would she come here if this is what they do at her Protestant mass? Was so sad. Became quite clear people were there for a performance, the clergy bringing there pets to mass and so many other bizarre events. Too many to count. In my area the church’s are closing and yolking parish’s. The clergy complaining they have too many parishes, wearing street cloths on days off or anytime when TLM priests are so happy to get new parish’s and never complain. The NO parish’s are losing people but the TLM parish’s are growing so fast. Know when I was in my local NO parish I was involved in all activities and knew everyone in the church. Joining the TLM I had to give up everything including my supposed friends. We don’t have all the activities with the TLM since the priest drives even farther than me but this is a necessary sacrifice I’m willing to make to make to attend a reverent Mass. So please stop saying anything bad about trads. I’ve never heard trads do what I hear supposed Catholics say. I’ve only seen and heard compassion and empathy from trads. It’s up to each individual to discern which Mass to attend. God will do the rest. 🙏🙏🙏

[@victoriabokanvsky2674]

I drive a total of 120 miles on Sunday’s for the “la misa de siempre,” meaning the mass that has always existed. The terminology is from a young Spanish priest who has been X’ed for about 2-years, now. I believe it was a gift from God, I must’ve earned. Out of all the gifts that God wished to give me in my 48.9 years is 1) the day He finally rushed to draw me out of the abyss in a very mystical supernatural way that we only see in movies. It happened when I was 43.3 years old, on a Tuesday morning 08/29/2017. Oddly I was born on a Tuesday early morning (5:30) in May (month of Mary). The day I was born, in 74’, the day lasted 13 hours 33 minutes. It took me years to discover that it was the feast day of St John the Baptist. 2) The day I went to the always-existent-Holy-of-Holy-mass. What a grand gift that added a level of divine infusion. It was on a Saturday morning on May 1, 2021. My, my, my…! I hope people see how Our Blessed Mother was and is involved in Her LOVE for me. I’m just the typical daughter but not when she suffers or to celebrate her happy feast days. Her pain is my pain and her joy is my joy. She has full authority over me and everything I do. Whatever gives her a sense of comfort and lessen her striving. Silence and custody of my senses have become my new desire and behavior. People drain me. I think it’s just a vestige of too much people in the past because my past profession and other experiences

[@chrisrichardson5462]

I feel for Catholics. I'm Greek Orthodox, so I'm just used to things being the same, so I can only imagine how stressful this is for everyone. Orthodoxy does make the news, like with the disagreement between Moscow and Constantinople, but luckily it does not filter down in any meaningful way to the individual parish (at least in my case). 2 of the most devout and beautiful Orthodox attendees at our church are Russian - and they have Russian options that they could choose.

[@thomasfolio4357]

I work from home on the computer. Usually I keep EWTN on in the background. But I switched after Pope Francis' instructions came out. I'm waiting to hear the announcement of the new TV Show, "Some Popes say the Craziest things." After the All New Simpsons on Fox.

[@claymcdermott718]

The Novus Simpsons are invalid. There hasn’t been a legitimate Simpsons episode since 2002. The movie is valid, though.

[@thomasfolio4357]

@@claymcdermott718 The movie then must have been produced by SSPX or FSSP. Perhaps the ICK, or an Eastern Rite Cartoon faction.

[@claymcdermott718]

@@thomasfolio4357 HAHA!

[@ambroserose762]

The Divine Liturgy and the Latin Mass are real portals to heaven they are Holy, Holy Holy and reach back to the Holy Fathers and even to the Tabernacle in the wilderness.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

as does the Ordinary Form; the TLM was good for its time (and is still good), but it doesn't adequately reflect the mission and vision of Vatican II, which all faithful Catholics accept

[@nnovo3122]

@@angelicdoctor8016 What is that mission and vision? Is it different from the mission and vision the church has always had?

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@@nnovo3122 Vatican II, affirmed John Paul II, "remains the fundamental event of the life of the contemporary Church; fundamental for the deepening of the richness given to them by Christ; fundamental for the fecundal contact with the contemporary world in a prospective of evangelization and of dialogue on every level with all men of attentive consciences". The Council laid down the premises of the new walk of the Church in contemporary society. Even being the same as yesterday, the Church lives and realizes in Christ its "today," which took flight especially from Vatican II. It "prepared the Church for the passage from the second millennium to the third millennium after the birth of Christ".

[@kirkjungles4901]

@@angelicdoctor8016 that still isn’t really saying anything practical or answering the actual question. How does the TLM fail to fulfill the mission? In my experience, the TLM does a better job. The contemporary world is strife and profane. The TLM answers to that by calling us upward, which is why I attribute much of my conversion to the TLM, and I know of soooo many reverts and converts with similar stories. The idea that the TLM is unfitting with the mission of Vatican II is a canned answer with no substance.

[@rick88mota]

@@angelicdoctor8016 By the fruits of Vatican II, we can say it was disastrous. Today, the regular catholic disagrees with a lot of the teachings of the Church (just take a look in pools with questions about sexual ethic, family, or dogmas like eucaristy, Immaculate Conception etc.). Those who seek to deepen their faith find a situation of chaos and doctrinal confusion, with a Church divided between "modernists" and "tradiotionalists", and even a position like sedevacantism. You can think that, without CVII, the situation would be worse. Maybe I lack imagination, but I Just can't see things this way, and I feel that a lot of people have the same impression.

[@sherriejacobsmcmahon2515]

I ordered 3 of those gorgeous candles

[@rigansmontes]

I am not a Vatican II negationist. Why am I being punished by the Holy Father? Pope Benedict XVI gave us the option of attending the "Extraordinary Form" (EF) or the "Ordinary Form" (OF). I fell in love with the EF the first time I experienced it. Perhaps it has to do with its having been developed by many saints throughout Church history, while the OF was created by a probable freemason (and therefore most likely excommunicated latae sententiae).

[@angelicdoctor8016]

I think this deserves meditation, not as a punishment: "The liturgical books promulgated by Saint Paul VI and Saint John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite."

[@alhilford2345]

@@angelicdoctor8016 : Would you please provide the source for this quotation. Thank you.

[@angelicdoctor8016]

@@alhilford2345 it's from the Motu Proprio directly Al - peace be with y ou

[@dwpjoyce]

Matt, it would be great if you could get someone on the show who does have expertise in the liturgy, preferably the traditional liturgy. It doesn't have to be a conversation filled with polemic, but I think that would be more informative and help move the situation forward. A priest from one of the traditional orders, or a layman of similar ilk. This goes not just for this issue, but the faith in general. It would certainly give a different angle on things, thanks.

[@clq2461]

It would be great to get someone on who versed in both liturgies so the conversation is inclusive for all. To have a voice that is not leaning one direction and explain how both liturgies have their pluses and minuses. I realize the Latin Mass is under attack but the NO has been demonized so much prior to the Latin Mass attack that it is hard to know what is appropriate or not for either Mass.

[@dwpjoyce]

@@clq2461 Actually, I disagree, for the reason that Matt tends to get more (if we have to use labels) conservative Catholics to discuss these issues, rather than those who are actually dedicated to tradition like priests from the FSSP, etc. These priests, and the laity alike, have a valid point of view as well, and given the number of guests that Matt has, would be a great initiative. As I said, these individuals could also be in on conversations on other topics, not just those related to the Mass, and they certainly have the advantage of being Thomistic, so would suit the channel very well.

[@UserUnknown_333]

The readings are chanted or sung in Latin, along with the use of incense during the Gospel, because they, too, are a form of worship. Their purpose and role in the Mass are not purely to instruct or teach us. I've never had a problem reading them before Mass and/or during the Mass. Some priests will read them in the vernacular before the sermon/homily.

[@a.t.c.3862]

So you are right and tge Church is wrong? That's what has led to T.C.

[@UserUnknown_333]

@@a.t.c.3862 Uh no, this isn't my opinion...this is what the Church has always taught. Look it up.

[@nnovo3122]

@@a.t.c.3862 What are tge and TC?

[@impasse0124]

I go to a parish run by the ICKSP and that’s exactly how they do it. I feel it works best that way because the Latin isn’t interrupted. Then the readings are read in English and the Canon transitions right into his English homily. Then back to Latin for the Credo and remainder of the Mass.

[@AveChristusRex]

@@a.t.c.3862 The Liturgy has always been in Latin, so it would be YOU who is saying YOU are right and the 2000 years of the Church is wrong. Not the people pointing you to that fact.

[@AV1776]

Anyone know how I can find a church that still performs the Latin High Mass near me? Are there any internet resources for that someone can point me to? I live in central Florida.

[@peytonhancock4593]

1:02:18 Love the show Matt, but I think you were way too agreeable on this proposition of having just one missal and scrapping the previous two. I find this critically wrong, and I don't know if you were paying enough attention to Jacob to catch it. I think Jacob critically misunderstands Pope Benedict's Motu Proprio, if he wanted to use just one missal, why would he open up the Church to using both missals? It is definitely a stretch to say that he intended to make a new missal to combine the two. I think you should listen to this audio again.

[@zestotemp]

Agree. There needs to first of all reckoning that the TLM is the only Roman rite correctly understood. If there were a decree that those presently using the Novus Ordo Missae and conciliar breviary must switch to a vernacularized version of the traditional versions, this would be the only reasonable course of unity that does not involve throwing out our actual tradition. They can have their English mass so long as it is impossible to prohibit the Latin and as long as our rites are the same. But it is the Novus Ordo majority that needs to return to “unity” with its history and tradition.

[@littleartimes121]

In my experience I've never heard people have problems with the NO mass when it's been in Spanish, people who go to the ON in English on the other hand where not pleased with that letter.

[@a.t.c.3862]

@@Kitiwake Ha Ha Ha. Write in Latin then.

[@soniamartin2007]

There is a reason the English translation was overhauled under Benedict - the translation in various parts invalidated the Mass. Latin, the language of the Church, was nailed to the Cross.

[@DewiiEsq]

I would really like a Jacob Imam v Dr Taylor Marshall debate on the whole angry trad thing

[@DewiiEsq]

@@saintsm Whataboutism isn’t helpful, but we all know that most cafeteria Catholics, don’t even care enough about their faith to be angry about anything Catholic

[@folofus4815]

This is a great conversation and I think I’ll suggest it to some priests I am friendly with who hate the Latin mass and it’s attendees. I hope it will give them a fresh perspective.

[@folofus4815]

@@JohnWilkesBased When I told them I go to Latin mass their faces turned to scowls and I got a big lecture on why only rigid people compensating for how bad and sinful they secretly are go to Latin mass. So you tell me how I should describe that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@alhilford2345]

@@folofus4815 : Strange response from a priest. Distorted reasoning, not to mention judgmental. I wouldn't trust them.

[@tvm520]

Interesting until the end , then I remembered you (Jacob) teach a Steubenville. Yeah The Trads are the divisive ones in the Church. The Pope who welcomes James Martin SJ, who will dialogue with everyone except Trads - the folk who actually pray for him everyday many of us several times a day yet we are are divisive ? We are the one who are paying the bills in decayed Churches our Masses are actually full . I guess in Rome they think we are going to keep the Cash flowing? I cant help but thinking if the bishops' survey prior to the MP reported The TLM was simply attended by schemata wearing old ladies with old Priests mumbling away there would have been no MP. But it did not I'm sure it reported a young vibrate masculine robust Church filled not with old ladies (or just ) and music scholars (even low Mass is packed at my Church ) But Men and boys watch Men pray, sing teenagers not just looking at grandpa but dads and most importantly boys seeing young men High Schoolers seeing cool college dudes . The cool college dudes , the intellectuals and the jocks all come to TLM. While at the NO its all Grandmas and Sr Sally of the Polyester pants suit. Pope Francis had made mistakes, as all men do but this was not a loving act it was abuse. I am not a sede Francis is The Pope, he is my Prince and I owe him loyalty obedience and I must pray for him (the hardest part of my prayer is praying for The Pope) but he is an abusive Father . What a time we live throughout the Western world we are led by elected leaders who hate the electorate if not the very country thy lead! Now we have a Church led by men who have nothing for contempt for the Faithfull.

[@bennyefendie]

I used to live in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. One Sunday I went for mass at the Cathedral and stayed on after mass to pray. Then at about 11 am, I saw a line in front of the confessional. They were all Myanmarese refugees from different dialect groups. Most of them couldn't speak and understand proper English. They had a Myanmarese priest who served them in the Archdiocese and they had mass in Burmese at every 12 noon on Sundays. I imagine if we imposed traditional Latin mass to them....who did not even speak English....Latin language is so distant from their own native languages.

[@john-paulgies4313]

As someone who is on the fence about the claim (by whom?) that the NO and the TLM are two 'forms' of the same rite, Jacob's anecdotal testimony at 7:10 inclines me to the hypothesis that this claim is a mistake - a misapprehension, a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding. But opinions exist as a mercy of God: we do not need certainty of all things to be able to act justly in the world, because we can have (reasonable) opinions upon which to base our actions. BUT, opinions wer made to be conformed to the Truth; no one has a right to there opinions qua opinion, but only insofar as they make use of them to seek the truth and accept it. ...Anyone got some Magisterium to lay on me?

[@alhilford2345]

If, indeed, they are two forms of the same rite, we need to remember that it is the LATIN RITE CATHOLIC CHURCH that we're talking about. And surely we are entitled to a LATIN liturgy!

[@vkbowers]

The Scriptures are shared in Latin because they are being read as an offering and part of the Mass itself. Oftentimes the priest will share a reading or part of it before giving his homily.

[@speroconstantine9957]

Lord, put to death the pride in me. Humble me. Let Your Will be done. In Your time not mine.

[@the_tax_consultant]

"Shut up, kneel down, and open up your mouth" 30:28

[@tannerrichards8287]

I’ve never been denied communion on the tongue by a priest, YET and I hope I never do but I always go to a NO mass with that fear. I have been denied communion by a lay woman though and when that happened I was both aggravated and mortified and the situation thankfully the priest rebuked her and I don’t think she’s an EM anymore. I do extensive research on NO parishes, and there’s a few where people will receive on their knees, and a bonus is that they have daily mass for Saturday mornings and have confession everyday. I love the TLM and I definitely prefer it but I love that there’s a variety of liturgies to choose from, if it wasn’t a hassle geographically in my area and if they offered it more I’d become an Eastern rite Catholic.

[@thepilgrim8336]

Hey Matt, you said my last name right! Thanks!!

[@pascalguillot2737]

Courage and protect our heritage from France,

[@andrejgrebenc3235]

The problem of traditionalists is that they don't recognize the equivalence of ordinary mass. Pope regulates this. They don't lose anything, l assume bishops will not ban the extraordinary form.

[@matthewjachimiec]

Some bishops have already announced restrictions on TLM since the Motu Proprio, but I agree with you. The other day Taylor Marshall called the novus ordo mass “the hippy mass” on KZbin. He was totally out of line on that one, slandering countless holy and orthodox clergy and laity. It’s always funny how some traditionalists, claiming to be ultra-conservative followers of authority, seem to have the hardest time accepting the legitimacy of authority (the pope, the Vatican, Vatican II, etc.)

[@dwpjoyce]

If you read the Ottaviani Intervention (found easily online), you will realise the innate problems of the New Mass - it's not just how it is celebrated. Those who discover the Latin Mass in the future certainly have lost something, if their Bishop is not allowed to approve of "new groups"...

[@magikarp2063]

Its not "equivalent". The TLM supports people's spiritual needs much better and therefore many people lose much. Not to mention all the beutiful communities who support each other in faith will be destroyed.

[@andrejgrebenc3235]

They don't lose anything, pope didn't cancel them. They shall only not spoil our children with their narrow teaching, usually very exclusive and negating ordinary mass.

[@marijn3511]

I think it's good that there's only one way to celebrate now. TLM was nice but in light of the new evangelisation and upcoming extreme traditionalists in the church it's good to make no distinctions and focus only on Christ

[@roses8631]

The most beautiful NO mass I went to was when Bishop Anthanasius Schneider came to our parish and celebrated the NO Mass in Latin. Ad Orientam, altar rails, no altar girls. It was very beautiful. The next day he did the TLM Missa Cantata at the Cathedral. ,

[@ReginaldPierce]

I don't often attend TLM, but when Bishop Schneider came to my city, I went. He has an incredible gift for liturgy and he is such a kind person.

[@roses8631]

Reginald Pierce Yes, he is so humble and kind.

[@kateblue3615]

It seems ironic that you say that NO is equivalent to TLM and yet the things you identify as things you love about TLM speak to the very theology communicated by TLM and that it differs from the theology communicated by NO. I attend both but I cant help feeling that one changes me and could possibly save my soul if I persevere while the other leaves me wretched as I am.

[@DominicTortolano]

Nice one

[@irodjetson]

The germans are not being divisive and heretical, so lets focus on the TLM families that agree with 95% of VII and have legitimate non answered questions about the other 5%. Yes it seems reasonable... C'mon.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Seems like there might be another agenda… 🧐

[@derechoplano]

The Amazonian Mass and the worshiping of the Pachamama are not divisive. This is unity, my brother! Learn the new vocabulary of this Pontificate. Unity means heresy. Compassion means heresy. Pastoral means unorthodoxy. Rigidity means orthodoxy. Do you understand now?

[@irodjetson]

@@derechoplano haha thank you, now I understand everything better

[@branislavjeriga6762]

The important point about the readings in Latin vs vernacular is theological. It should be proclaimed (chanted or read) on the altar in Latin (the sacred language of the three materially tied to the Crucifixion of the Lord). It can be said for the people in the vernacular before the homily from the pulpit. The reason is that the "liturgy of the word" is a sacrifice of praise and of word and as such it belongs to the altar. This is why before the Pius XII it was proclaimed by priest on altar and subdeacon/deacon in their proper place chanting aloud in the solemn liturgy. This is found until the Editio typica 1920. It was changed in 1955. This reality is also reflected in the rite of ordination of the subdeacon/deacon, where it is said to him to go proclaim the word of god for the living and the dead. Just like the mass is offered for living and the dead.

[@paulb2569]

Re Like #3, how sad that it takes a Latin mass for you to get a "meaty" homily. I guess we're lucky in our parish (Sacred Heart of Jesus in Wadsworth, OH) to have priests who do not shy away from the subjects that apparently many do not like to preach about (abortion, contraception, hell, etc).

[@verum-in-omnibus1035]

You must be one of the unicorn Novus ordo parishes. People online claim they exist, but the several states and counties I’ve attended a Novus Ordo I’ve only seen abuse that would make any true Catholic cry.

[@jennaschweitzer8313]

I was just going to say the same thing about St. Sebas in Akron! :D :D :D

[@katherinearchbold2741]

i love love love everything you guys talk about in here!! i agree about all the aspects of the Mass you discuss. i love to gush about the TLM! the only thing i wonder is how could you know all these things about the TLM, how life changing, heart converting and indescribably lovely, and not maintain that it’s preservation is of tantamount priority? i feel as though you feel all these ways about the TLM but think we would all be fine without it. our leaders today do Catholicism differently, and don’t care for people holding onto traditional morality or liturgy. the morality, culture and liturgy the Church enjoyed for almost 2000 years. there are heartbreakingly ignorant leaders of our Church who would love to see this movement and this liturgy go away. the TLM is something God is calling us to defend and pass on. our children’s inheritance is at hand.

[@charlesf9050]

Welcome us in the lost and the lonely... Yep that one's familiar

[@rosiegirl2485]

I cannot help but to wonder what Pope (Emeritus) Benedict XVI is thinking about this! I understand what Pope Francis' concern is with the Latin Mass...but I think it was overkill! If I were the Pope.... I would have tried to bring a unity between the 2 Masses. All Latin Masses are reverent... This isn't so with Novus Ordo Masses...and that is truth! I realize the Pope has had an "itch" when it comes to the Latin Mass...but... He should be protecting our Lords Church...and making sure..to the best of his ability..that all Masses are reverent! He really should put his time into correcting the abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass! He really should be bringing alter rails back...instead of picking on the most reverent Mass...and the Mass that is bringing in the youth!

[@nnovo3122]

Francis is one of those responsible for irreverent masses. Have you seen the video of him presiding over the tango mass in Argentina?

[@nicolasjuandecardenas7921]

I don't understand, why is Francis concerned about the TML?

[@pamelavanover2722]

Totally agree!

[@rosiegirl2485]

@@nnovo3122 I haven't....I am going to google it...thank you!

[@rsmyth75]

Fear of the Lord is the fear of loosing the the love and affection of our Beloved, the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

[@shepherdson6189]

At this very age the Novus Ordo Mass has been reaching a lot of poor Catholics around the world from far flung places to slum areas in order to partake in the sacrifice of the mass. Truly the Holy Spirit works in many wondrous ways through the Church bringing this grace to our less fortunate brethren to receive the Bread of Life. We as Catholics should be thankful for this instead of comparing the rites that has been given to us through the church. The living Magisterium and the Pontiff by virtue of apostolic succession holds the authority to unite the church and it is both a duty and tradition for the faithful to assent to the this living authority of the Church. Dissenting only promotes division and thus is not according to the works of the Holy Spirit.