23: Is baptism necessary for salvation?

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

In regard to Jesus’ statement in the Gospel of John, “No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit,” the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “God has bound salvation to the Sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacrament” (CCC#1261). In other words, the Sacrament of Baptism is the ritual new Christians are ordinarily bound to celebrate as a sign of their commitment to follow Jesus and his way of love within the community of the Church. Baptism is symbolic of immersion into the life of Christ as lived within the Christian community. God’s mercy, however, is not limited by human rituals. It is his loving kindness and mercy that ultimately gains us entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.

[@bookpaper105]

So basically what you’re saying is no one actually needs baptism to be saved.

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

@@bookpaper105 I'm not saying anything. I'm quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[@MovieRiotHD]

Which protestant friends? Reformed churches agree with the catholics on baptism and salvation mostly.

[@Lostandfoundrecipes-lz2mm]

I was baptized Catholic , my uncle made rosary beads for St. Anthony's Church in Revere , Ma. With that I studied baptism with no outside help . I started with Adam and Eve , and found that God took 2 bloody lamb skins and covered them in them ; Genesis 3:21 . Then I found why in Genesis 4:10 Abel's blood cried out from the ground ,life is in the blood , so it was with the lambs . This blood is what saved them from sin , this was done through out the old testament , but without wearing the skin . In John 1:29 this all changed when John was baptizing in the Jordan he saw Jesus coming unto him , and saith , Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world . Now if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin . 1 John 1:7 . This is how it cleans us ; 1 John 5:8 there are 3 that bear witness in earth the Spirit , and the water , and the blood :and these 3 agree in 1 . How they come together is in the name of Jesus ; Acts 2:38 , when you say the name of Jesus the Spirit comes in then the blood comes in and mixes with the water ,and there's a washing away of sin making your spirit white as snow . Now I cannot show you the Spirit , it's invisible , and I can't show you the blood from Calvary , but I can show you the water . In Hebrews 9:22 says And almost all things are by law purged with blood ; and without shedding of blood is no remission . Some people say , I was baptized as an infant , but there is no blood, no remission , you can go down to the river and get dipped 3 times , no blood , no remission , what about all those who were baptized Father , Son , Holy Spirit , no blood , no remission . There is only 1 saving name in which we can be saved ; Acts 4:12 , 13 . Ephesians 4:5 One name , one faith , one baptism . It's for everyone.

[@insanedrummer1572]

I’ve heard someone say, baptism of the spirit is necessary but not of water. Does the Church teach either way, baptism is still necessary?

[@joeykumar5165]

Hi Matt, love your videos, could you explain sprinkling baptism vs full immersion, and explain why catholics use sprinkling (if they do, I'm not catholic yet..)?

[@josephzaiger9532]

Hey Matt! I also have the same question as Joey stated above. I’ve looked but haven’t found one of your podcasts addressing full submersion of baptism as all the examples in the New Testament vs. sprinkling as Catholics do. Could you have a full podcast regarding this talking about the history and reason for infant sprinkling? Thank you!

[@yeshua1st]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jouqo3h6rZdqgqcsi=8bl2Q9h0ebllFsNL

[@jasonmoncusgundinamo1811]

Well when he says to nicodemus he says you must be born from above.

[@notedmusician]

The thief on the cross didn’t get baptized. He also didn’t join a church or do any rituals. He just that acknowledged Christ had done no wrong and asked to be remembered. And he was still under the new covenant because Jesus died before he did, and in Hebrews 9 the new covenant is made on the death of the savior not 50 days after at Pentecost. So many churches including Protestant ones have overly complicated the free gift from Christ alone (works don’t save us).

[@fernandoperez8587]

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.... For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” - Romans 10:9-13 Only the faith that responses and acts even works is the faith that saves. Faith without works is dead. We believe in our hearts and are justified and in response to that faith we act, we confess, call on the name of the Lord and are saved. Why didnt Paul just leave out that bit about confession and calling on the name of the Lord if faith alone without a response, actions, works saves? And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, CALLING ON HIS NAME.’ - Acts 22:16

[@notedmusician]

@@fernandoperez8587 the works does not save us itself, that is just now it’s an expression of what already happens inside our hearts, Come and see Ephesians 2 it says very clearly we are sealed with the promise of the spirit in the hour that we first believe, not in the hour that we are baptized. And furthermore in the book of acts, the Holy Spirit was poured out before water baptism.

[@fernandoperez8587]

@@notedmusician The norm in Acts is the Spirit was given after baptism. In Acts 2 Peter issues a promise by the Holy Spirit that those who believe will be baptized and saved. That THEN they would then recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit just like Christ when He was baptized (though it was symbolically in His case). Acts 10 is not a proof text you think it is for this topic. Acts 10 was the gentile Pentecost (Acts 2 was for the Jews and chapter 8 was for the Samaritans). In Acts 10 God preemptively Acts to prove to the apostles that the gospel was to go to the gentile world. Does your church follow the apostlic examples in the New Testament and perform the laying on of hands for the gifting of the Holy Spirit like Peter and Paul did (see Acts 19:1-7)? If not why not?

[@LetsgoB]

Obviously the thief on the cross is a limited exception because he didn’t have time to work out his faith in love. We are judged by our works Revelations 20. Had the thief on the cross survived and lived 30 years without doing anything, his faith would be dead. He would be a goat not a sheep.

[@LW-STS]

I have read the Catechism more than once and Catholic teaching has given baptism a role that scripture does not support. They say: The eternal punishment is forgiven with baptism (original sin). And now transformed into a temporal punishment. The baptized now no longer comes into the eternal damnation, but can lead a holy life by God's grace that comes to him through the sacraments. All this has an effect on the time in purgatory. What the Catholic Church has managed to do is to set itself up as the mediator of salvation and to reduce the sacrifice of Christ to a sacrifice that cannot forgive all sins. In the end, the Catholic himself must earn his way to heaven. He will always call it "God's grace," but just because you change the definition of grace doesn't mean it is still grace. Baptism was never meant to forgive original sin. In the end, the Gospel preached by the apostles is different from that of the Catholic Church. For the thief on the cross entered paradise through faith in Christ alone. Some thoughts on your argumentation: 7:14 that is actually not bothering, because the testimony on scripture is quite clear in the early church. You would be better starting with the early church while reading Acts. The clearest argument for this is how the apostles interpreted and carried out the commands of Jesus in the book of acts. Simon the sorcerer was baptized, was he regenerated or not? No he wasn't, Peter says he is in darkness. His heart has not changed although he was baptized. Why so? Wasnt he redeemed through the the baptism in water? Acts 10: When did the nations in Acts receive the spirit? While getting baptized? No. At the moment, as they heard the gospel by Peter they received the Holy Spirit because they believed in their hearts. When were they baptized after? After Acts 10:43+47 I think in Acts we see how the apostles understood the words of Jesus about salvation and baptism. Evangelicals believe that we are born again through faith. That's the time when we are baptized into the spirit. Why should we be baptized then? Because the lord commanded it to do so, and it should be natural for a Christian to proclaim his faith through baptism. There are a few more reasons, but I just want to show the main point that the Bible makes. As an evangelical, I would also not mention 1.Cor 1 to convince a catholic. Paul is just pointing out, that his MAIN mission is to preach the gospel and not getting a fan-club for himself. To: John 3:5 If you want to look up John 3:5 there are multiple commentaries on this passage and 3 big streams of possible ways of interpretation. It's not wise to make such an unclear and debated passage a main argument for your theology. Especially as you mentioned Tit 3:5 you made a counterpoint to your argument. Tit 3:5 shows the baptism of the Holy Spirit: the washing of the believer. The question: At which moment is a believer born again? Through the washing of his rebirth and the renewal of the spirit? How does acts enlighten us on this? I think the apostles in acts again show us clearly that Baptism in the Holy Spirit and baptism in water does NOT occur at the same time. For being born again is something that happens in the hearts of a human being. Mk 16:16 is not a hard one to explain. How do you get condemned in this verse? Through not believing. The believer is not getting condemned because he is not baptized. But your question is this: Why does Mark tell us that baptism is equally important to be saved? This is quite clear: What is to be thought of a Christian who does not want to be baptized? Someone who does not confess his Christian faith to the outside world? According to Romans 10:9, this person has no saving faith. For genuine faith cannot remain silent. Furthermore, it was clear to the Christians in the New Testament that after receiving the Word of God in the heart (conversion), baptism must immediately follow. Another argument I would say is the life of Jesus himself. The main goal of the Gospel of John is (John 20.31ff) that the believer would have FAITH in his name and eternal life through faith. You also see when people have faith in Jesus is a decision of heart in the gospels. What would the disciples have learned from Jesus in that time, learning from him?