Plastic Surgery vs Natural Beauty | Middle Ground

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CREDITS
Director: Ragini Bhasin
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[@jubilee]

Want to join the conversation? Submit a prompt for the BIGGEST Middle Ground episode yet. We’ll choose our favorite with the help of @thefireorg, and your name will appear in the episode! Comment your best prompt on this post: (instagram.com/p/C-vtmadyOmV)

[@idkGBT]

3 days ago??

[@einbatixx4874]

@@idkGBT they probably release their videos on a schedule, even if they are done already.

[@Hjj.sjsjzksk]

ngas vs white people on jubilee

[@feloveita]

Armenians vs Turkish people regarding the Armenian genocide, there's always discourse between the two and I want to see how to discussion will be between the two!

[@ashleystevensarverjr9309]

@@jubilee how do I get to the prompt?

[@mysteryliasarts3176]

"In a society that profits on insecurity, self love is an act of rebellion"

[@justinaacuriouswanderer1496]

Exactly. I am surveying people here by asking this simple question: Why is it that 92% of people who undergo cosmetic plastic surgery are women? (According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), including both surgical and non-surgical treatments) Just answer that question.

[@joymiller9668]

This should be the number one comment

[@lLuckM3412]

damn

[@leratomoloi3113]

This comment should be PINNED!!! Very profound 💯💯

[@cael_aj]

The original quote is "In a society that profits from your self doubt, liking yourself is a rebellious act." Attributed to Caroline Caldwell from a tweet in 2015. And it couldn't be more relevant today.

[@laural794]

This plastic surgeon is the perfect example of how surgeons exploit your insecurities. She was pointing out every extreme insecurity possible.

[@electroencefaIografista]

she's suffering from body dysmorphia herself. she shouldn't be an authority here.

[@kuromil5127]

I agree that surgeons do exploit but I think she was more realistic than extreme. A lot of what she stated does happen on a regular basis.

[@BLiNGyourALARMclock]

Yup. I went to a medspa once and they started pointing out things they could “fix” that I didn’t even ask about! They make you feel bad so you’ll spend money on other procedures

[@Bibirallie]

Yep a lot of the women now look like they are trans. Like the person in the tan dress.

[@obeseembryo6172]

I took it more as just her adding nuance. A lot of the comments here are ignoring the fact that she agreed with everyone else about how exploitative insecurities are. She just gave an exception to show that its not a black and white issue

[@lara_waraful]

The Dr doesn’t want to find a middle ground. It threatens her business.

[@beingcece]

I wish someone called her out on that detail

[@caliblue2]

💯💯💯

[@fluffyvee8723]

Yup..she's being vague and obtuse on purpose

[@cami5173]

@@fluffyvee8723 its also possible she 100% believes these things, just like chiropractors lol

[@fluffyvee8723]

@@cami5173 lol..she was just skirting around the whole subject - almost avoiding any of the ngative impacts of the industry e.g. fatalities, botched surgery, dysmorphia, ethical concerns etc...just wishy washy

[@naldof6732]

Having a plastic surgeon in on a conversation about plastic surgery Vs natural beauty is like having a middle ground with a cigarette company CEO talking about smoking vs non smoking. It’s horrible. She’ll unnaturally lean on pro plastic surgery because it’s her bread and butter.

[@Aaliyah_Matyevna]

I agree.She doesnt understand the difference between medically important cosmetic procedures and cosmetic procedures that women get because they want to look a certain way for insecurity or personal reasons.

[@bereal6590]

She knows exactly what she is doing. The woman is nuts, being proud she hasn't moved her forehead for 16 years! How sad!

[@queenofthebutterflies5212]

Well said

[@Robzabest25]

they were hoping she wasnt tho

[@Jess-mj2jj]

Great analogy

[@lizzieburila]

I dislike that the plastic surgeon would only bring up very extreme examples of women who wanted surgery to fix something that affected their lives everyday. She knows that most girls looking to get surgery are doing it to fit the trends, not because of something affecting their bodies. She would completely miss the point the natural side was trying to make purposefully.

[@lolerene3776]

I agree!!! I feel like it was almost unfair having her involved in the discussion. So knowledgeable about the topic that she could pick and choose what facts to bring forward.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

I don’t think it’s unfair it’s just an honest debate since if you are going to honestly debate plastic surgery you need an expert I think it’s unfair that they didn’t have an expert on body dysmorphia

[@jenna127]

@@neigeepierrot4694 That's not what they're saying. Of course it's helpful to have an expert bringing their expertise to the table... but as an expert they shouldn't be so selectively picking and choosing examples without acknowledging the fact that the majority of plastic surgeries (like 70%) are purely cosmetic.

[@neigeepierrot4694]

@@jenna127 okay I get that

[@sinnella1]

Yeah I saw that. Necessary ones that get people bullied or hard to function with aren't the same as cosmetic ones whose standards change over time and those girls start to feel like they don't fit the standards yet again.

[@bink3814]

Why is the plastic surgeon acting like getting a medical problem fixed is the same thing as constantly changing their appearance to defy the beauty standard? Like fixing a significant medical problem is so different from the women who are trying to turn themselves into barbie dolls, thinking it will make them prettier.

[@AA-tv5gv]

Yeah I think we all agree that fixing an objective deformity shouldn't be shunned

[@evettybetty8040]

I do agree that plastic surgery can be harmful but, some people have deformities and those people do get plastic surgery to look normal. I think the surgeon is trying to highlight how plastic surgery is more nuanced then people just turning themselves into Barbies.

[@dia4729]

⁠@@evettybetty8040exactly. People across as if plastic surgeons are not a necessity just bc not everyone needs them.

[@sandram1644]

Because that is plastic surgery, a los of people reduce it to people wanting to look better when it’s not the case, plastic surgery is implants for a reconstruction or for someone who just want a breast lift and it shouldn’t be seen as the oposite of natural beauty, it’s medical procedures regardless of why are you getting them

[@louise.x03]

yep!! someone's labia that is too long can also arise other issues, a woman that has given birth and now her breasts are that big that she can barely see her own waist, that is physically daunting on the body itself. the issues pops up when perfectly healthy young women are looking at themselves and thinking 'my nose is too big, my butt or boobs are too small, my eyes are too droopy' things that will never affect them later in life, THAT is when it's a problem. not when medical and physical well being is involved

[@nicholastodd8904]

I feel like this plastic surgeon is on a different conversation than the other girls

[@Rizza.]

Literally since question 1 when she's mentioning collagen and vitamins and working out.... meanwhile the question specifically says SURGERIES

[@Usersk888tr]

she was def having her own Ted talk the whole time 🤣

[@justinaacuriouswanderer1496]

Exactly. I am surveying people here by asking this simple question: Why is it that 92% of people who undergo cosmetic plastic surgery are women? (According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), including both surgical and non-surgical treatments) Just answer that question.

[@daniawilson5514]

She’s being obtuse and she’s know it because the ideologies are attacking her bread and butter

[@Skimbledimble]

@@daniawilson5514wrong use of ideologies - but I get what you’re saying, dissenting voices causes problems

[@user-sn6ld5hh1q]

We are not talking about “a girl who’s organs are showing through her skin” we are talking about beautiful young ladies who feel the need to get a nose job and bbl because they have been bullied or influenced

[@serebii666]

What if they're not beautiful tho? 💁‍♂💁‍♂

[@user-sn6ld5hh1q]

@@serebii666 they are to other people. Your sense of beauty could be totally different from mine so you may think someone would benefit from having surgery meanwhile someone else could think the complete opposite

[@heftyfinez]

@@serebii666 what is beauty anyway - what are you talking about? The only ugly people are people who are selfish and rude and careless about others. All other people are beautiful - so please explain what you mean.

[@serebii666]

@@heftyfinez "what is beauty anyway - what are you talking about? The only ugly people" wow, you're so brave to detach from reality and pop off platitudes in an attempt to completely sidestep the discussion at hand! Here, a dictionary definition of beauty for you: a combination of qualities, such as shape, colour, or form, that pleases the aesthetic senses, especially the sight. So no, we're not going to play this game that beauty is somehow something entirely and post-modernly unqualifiable, while "ugliness" somehow isn't. We live in the real world. Whatever aesthetic value system you work with, beauty exists as a determinant of it and most aesthetic systems for humans emerged from certain universal maxims, thought to derive from evolutionary biology. It is why we universally value healthy presentation, symmetry, regularity and structured variation, smelling nice, secondary sex characteristics are common points of attraction etc.

[@heftyfinez]

@@serebii666 common points of attraction happen for conventionally ugly and unaltered people.

[@cherylwilliams4793]

Our culture is so ageist. Let's normalize wrinkles! Let's celebrate the type of beauty that only older women possess. Why are there no 60+ women on this panel?

[@OcchiRavi]

I think having some older women (on both sides) would have been a really interesting insight, hopefully they do another episode like this with only older women (and maybe even one with men...because they can also get plastic surgery even though it's not so widely advertised to them)

[@betsybankole9161]

THIS!!!!

[@hungergameshub]

No thanks, I’ll normalize having firm skin instead of being a leather couch.

[@spookymarti3712]

@@hungergameshubyou're such a sad human being, imagine saying that to your grandma or mother😳

[@jade9596]

Yess

[@meganbayram9210]

Why is nobody commenting on how the plastic surgeon is using exploitive language when describing women’s bodies after birth?? She describes the breast and the stomach as if the mother should in fact be ashamed of how she looks now like wtf is up with that language

[@cleverasaurus]

Thought the same thing!

[@Bringon-dw8dx]

She basically said ‘why would anyone want to look like they’ve aged or had a baby, how disgusting’, and then went on to say your partner wouldn’t even be attracted to you anymore

[@rosanthi250]

To add to that for there partner to be attractive to them after having kids No body should feel the need to get surgery so they are attractive to their partner or anyone else for that matter. I'm all in support of doing what you want and even more so taking care of yourself but it all starts with the mind/mindset

[@LilyFlowers-hh3sc]

Because she wasn't and you want to burn her like a witch because she makes people beautiful. You're an insecure and hateful person. I really loathe the fact that you try to pretend you're doing people justice. You're not. Let people do what they want to do with their bodies please.

[@melriquajackson8480]

I have four kids and the body she’s talking about and I have no shortage on men who are attracted to me.. I get approached a lot because of my confidence period

[@doeeyes2]

Hearing the doctor using terms like "boobs sagging down to here" or "stomach completely blown out cause she just had children" really gives me the ick.

[@AlexW-ei5oo]

Same with “bad nose”

[@LucentSky]

@@doeeyes2 There are some women who don’t want to look that way, I’ve never had children but I imagine it would be pretty insane for a woman to be used to her body before and see it be completely different in those ways. We all know what most people find attractive and it generally isn’t those things, so of course that woman wanted to have surgery. Even women without surgery, work out because they don’t prefer that body type.

[@B-lazer3]

It actually made me feel even more insecure bc ik if she saw mine she would say I need mine done 😂

[@doeeyes2]

@@LucentSky its more about the way she said it... like shes supposed to be a doctor, she should have a little more tact when speaking on womens bodies

[@visitingstatue171]

@@LucentSky Even though I'm against plastic surgery, I have a lot of sympathy for women in that situation.. But I think it's important to dissect the reasons why they feel like that. After doing something so incredible - giving birth - it's terrible that they're made to feel like their bodies are gross and somehow unworthy, whether by their partners, society etc. We're doing everyone (women especially) a huge disservice if we just encourage them to surgically alter things they shouldn't feel insecure about in the first place. And that's not even mentioning the fact that it requires a lot of money and resources to have those procedures done in the first place - should poorer women be condemned to feeling terrible about their postpartum bodies?

[@luvvvher]

That doctor is completely delusional, she basically said that her definition of natural is unclockable 💀 GURLL BFFR 😭

[@deanbilly9073]

she completely missed what they were talking about

[@oniciamuller]

Especially when she is very clock-able. Sure her work looks by today's srandard but she also has a cookie-cutter face. Boring!

[@mexx5080]

Listing natural things and calling them ugly says enough

[@myahgormley9788]

Yep exactly

[@swatisaini6447]

Best comment!

[@elianne7362]

The cosmetic surgery industry preys on perfectly healthy bodies in order for them to undergo unnecessary and often dangerous procedures- it creates its own clientele

[@celinepa8246]

Agree - as does the beauty industry in general.

[@hutch7485]

The same goes for laser eye surgery. Perfectly healthy corneas zapped for a quick profit.

[@XanaxMilf]

It doesn’t. A lot of the surgeries I want was triggered by looking at beautiful people and getting into looksmaxxing culture, the surgery industry didn’t prey on me in fact I plan to GO TO the plastic surgery industry to get work done I will get a face lift soon

[@nabeehamaryam6236]

@@hutch7485 girl sorry but that is NOT the same. yea perfectly healthy and nearly BLIND corneas

[@myopiniondoesntmatterbut4826]

@@hutch7485you mean ”zapped” for a lifetime of vision without spending thousands of dollars on eyewear

[@2BagSugar]

I like how the surgeon thinks we can't tell by looking at her 😂

[@Honey-lv7pb]

fr none of her facial muscles moved even a bit while she was talking so she had to convey the emotion with her voice lmao

[@kayceeisonfire]

she couldn't even move her face when she laughed lol

[@TheGracefulGlowup]

We can all tell 😂hilarious

[@skylarmichellex]

So true I can definitely tell she’s had Botox

[@Amy-Marchant]

I know!! As soon as she said that no one would be able to tell, I was like 🤨

[@jesssc402]

I once visited a cosmetic surgery clinic for chin / jaw fillers and botox when I was 34 and the doctor refused to do it. He said that my face is fine as it is and I’m beautiful. Sorta healed my self image issues… I guess docs like that are rare nowadays..

[@weasleyredhair]

That's awesome!!

[@zandikhetwayo7444]

Love that

[@conejitaaa]

I went for a nose job consultation and the Dr. told me women pay to get a nose like mine and she refused. Definitely helped me feel better about a feature I always hated

[@peepthesitchtarot]

"I fall in and out of love with the way I look" she is so real for that.

[@destinarae2885]

exactly because that woud've been my response too, she nailed it

[@amandamatheson1615]

I lost my sister to plastic surgery. Blood clot that traveled to her lung . This devastated our entire family and the risks are constantly understated.

[@whatzittooyah]

My condolences 😔😔

[@cel1125]

😂

[@sinitnegusse1178]

@@cel1125tf is wrong with you

[@xterramichigan]

@@cel1125you’re a horrible person 👍

[@coke8321]

@@cel1125bio 🤡 you 🤡

[@EthelJung-j5w]

"I do feel a more athletic look is in now" - Dr. Nazarian. You know, Dr. N, there's another way to achieve an "athletic look" that has nothing to do with surgery or syringes.

[@holisticallyholly4612]

😂😂😂 precisely my thoughts when she said she restored herself with injecting poison into her face.

[@sammyk707]

Athleticism is not delivered via syringe, it was actually hilarious tbh

[@naturallyamused]

And that you can't tell that she hasn't moved her forehead in 16 years 😅​@@holisticallyholly4612

[@Nate-km3vn]

​@@sammyk707 I was gonna say! Syringes are exactly where athletics come from

[@sammyk707]

@@Nate-km3vn that is true 😂

[@kaaaaa17166]

„I had 15 syringes of filler and you wouldn’t know“ WE DO KNOW GIRLY. WE SEE IT CLEARLY

[@amarachin.4572]

i guess im the only one who didn't see it

[@taylorware7681]

Thank you, her face was definitely a little stiff lol

[@trackydoo]

I laughed at that. I may not have noticed the filler, but I noticed the Botox immediately.

[@zandikhetwayo7444]

@@amarachin.4572stop lying bruh😂😂😂

[@jufinmay1]

you can really tell when she laughs

[@dahlia159]

Bbl girl was everything, loved her openness and honesty

[@ChristieMcFit]

Unsure if you’re talking about Gizelle or me ❤ but thank you from us 🤗 We both found it important to be transparent ❤

[@pristinedecision1877]

I’m in love.

[@dahlia159]

@@ChristieMcFit OMG I MEANT YOU QUEEN SORRY I FORGOT UR NAME😭😭😭 you were SO iconic x x x (Gizelle ate too)

[@dahlia159]

@@pristinedecision1877 ME TOO🫠

[@ivanahtannica]

@@ChristieMcFityou taking the time to respond is so wholesome! I also think you’re really pretty.

[@flamingm6634]

The plastic surgeon just wants more clients😂

[@brenleysoccerbee]

yes i wish they would have talked about how plastic surgery companies give influencers free procedures or fillers to promote this stuff. (i’m about half way thru not sure if they did later in the video)

[@jadesmith7983]

Exactly 😂

[@pamjam098]

Well that’s literally their job. Lol. 😂

[@bye230]

@@pamjam098yeah we know.. that’s why she said that. lol

[@editaudioaesthetic]

you guys should be stepping on daphne's neck NOT the surgeon, especially since she was offering solutions and agreeing with the natural side many, many times!!!

[@Cyberdollvintage]

the plastic surgeon purposely missing peoples thoughful and well articulated points was so annoying lol

[@dolphin8766]

She wanted to add nuance because when it comes to topics like this it is often avoided.

[@jonathanfoster4202]

She has a different perspective, that’s the point of middle ground lol

[@mainmanloso]

@@jonathanfoster4202she has a paycheck to maintain buddy that’s it 😂

[@ronnie-lynn]

Seriously!! I honestly had a breast reduction age 20. Due to having one breast significantly larger than the other. I had to use shoulder pads and put a few of them in the bra of the smaller breast. Cases like this and the “labia” one is NOT the same as the type of plastic surgery the other guests were speaking about. Oh my gosh 6:04 she keeps going to extremes! Mothers with blown out intestines from pregnancy. 🤦🏻‍♀️ oh goodness

[@Vrjm81]

I like how the doctor mentioned the nuances and the things we don’t hear about regularly

[@mi2lq933]

Woman with 4 children here ✋🏻 using that as an example of why a normal healthy woman would have a blown out stomach and breasts down to their waist is insane and a total misrepresentation of whatever that situation was.

[@zandikhetwayo7444]

Very gross to say

[@dominique2966]

I ain't changing s*** for nobody 😂 If you don't like how I look, don't look at me.

[@DJ-yo9oi]

Okay, great.

[@LuvNikNac]

lol I agree. If you’re a mother that’s gonna tell your child if they need surgery to change how they look….youre introducing self-rejection in that child

[@jenayrandall9358]

Period

[@loni1932]

Everyone should have this outlook !

[@zoj6886]

Exactly 😂

[@Leonaza7]

As a Psychologist, I could tell you that someone could go through hundreds of plastic surgeries and still won’t be satisfied or happy within themselves because they’re forgetting one important detail. Your true happiness and inner peace starts with self-love. That being said I’m not against plastic surgeries. But some people are so superficial that they end up disfiguring themselves. Shame on those doctors who choose money over the mental and physical health of these patients.

[@ashm4938]

Those who go through that much, from a psychological perspective are they any different that someone with a body dysphoria disorder like anorexia? they often display the same warped view about their bodies, quite often people who constantly do plastic surgery will share similar co-obsessive traits about food intake, image etc and as a result take extreme actions (where that be starving themselves or plastic surgery) to get a result they believe they will be happy with, but in reality never will. IMO proper psychological assessments should be taken out for constant users of plastic surgery

[@hyuukkao]

I agree but also the last part… it’s kinda their job. They get money or stay in school for years to do this. That’s what they chose so you can’t really blame them considering they also perform cosmetic procedures to other who’ve gone through a traumatic experience. But I know they make you sign papers and ask you many questions so they know you REALLY want that job to be done so they do kinda care about them

[@user-jk5pj6lg9n]

Wow are you really shaming the doctors?

[@amentrison2794]

omg its so weird seeing you outside of beau's comment section, hey lol

[@sinnella1]

Yes

[@derine-4512]

Daphne saying "if my child has a really bad nose" threw me off so badly lmao. 23 is quite young but she seems unbelivably immature even for her age. Also the contrived "nonchalantness" and valley girl accent quite literally gave me whiplash

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

More like shes grounded in reality.

[@Sara-hy8ki]

She’s so childish and her answers got worse every time, I can’t …. She’s going to destroy her children with this messed up mentality. She had social media wayyyyy too early

[@obdiane]

@@disneytoysr4fun975 She's not grounded she's self-absorbed.

[@meepmoopmusic]

bruh I hate how the surgeon backed her and was smiling the whole time

[@tigerpaws111]

Yeah she's acting like a teen, I couldn't believe she was 23 when she said it I would have guessed 18 the way she was acting. Just tiktok brain rot

[@Datgirl.-]

When the surgeon said she was freaking out during lockdown cus she finally saw how she TRULY looked like & started panicking and injecting her self asap. It was kinda sad but respect to her for keeping it real!

[@sophhillington]

Omg, that’s so sad 😢

[@faysmit4799]

Daphne is so brainwashed by social media. How can you not see the problem with social media. Also saying she would honest say if her daughter needs surgery

[@ripsanskrit3609]

It's her daughter wish

[@Yentra163]

She is the example of how plastic surgery HAS become normalized. She's the youngest there and thus has no experience or concept of the value behind a non-obsessed with plastic surgery society is like. It's the era of instant gratification.

[@abnormalways]

Her posture hints at her screen time

[@somanyplacestogo]

I hope that she develops the ability to think critically before she has children, IF she chooses to have them. Her response was horrendous.

[@Levamii]

Facts.

[@NoOne-wt3sv]

We see societies like S. Korea, where plastic surgery is SO normalized that they expect a picture/headshot with a resume. They give nose jobs and eyelid surgery as graduation gifts. That isn’t normal and shouldn’t be “normalized”. Shallowness is a never ending ramification for those whom reject or simply do not “fit” the beauty standard.

[@ava1772]

ill never forget how shocked I was whenever I found out that plastic surgery is so common in korea to the point where even teenagers get it as gifts (like you said), its so normalized there that the plastic surgery is literally so much cheaper compared to the US. No wonder the country gets called "the plastic surgery capital of the world".

[@mochienn]

even when you get your passport photo taken in south korea, they can photoshop everything about your face without your consent. it’s like being told you’re ugly indirectly but they expect you to be okay with it because it’s so common.

[@thetruesquad5059]

@@ava1772 never knew anyone called it that til i read this comment, anyway north or south or both?

[@ava1772]

@@thetruesquad5059 my bad i forgot to specify. South korea

[@Travesty]

@@ava1772😂😂

[@candaceyoung7498]

Daphne is trying so hard to give off the "I don't care vibe" 😂😂

[@AllSmiles413]

fr her voice is so annoying

[@whatoh3407]

It's the new sign of confidence.

[@candaceyoung7498]

😂😂​@@whatoh3407

[@kschneider7767]

I don’t understand why she is on the panel

[@janellecordero1110]

I truly believe Daphne does not care. That is why I think she reflects a naive and uneducated perspective. It is not helpful for the discussion but it is important as showing that this is part of this society and why people like her are part of the problem.

[@junnket]

Amala as usual smashing it. Her brain the most attractive body part of her (and the bar is freaking high)

[@electroencefaIografista]

this is what should be valued in women above all: their brains!

[@kaitlyneg]

Did she really say braces are mainly for aesthetics? There are so many legit medical reasons why people get braces.

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

Same with plastic surgery

[@doornroosje4695]

Yes but when i was young some kids would have braces. Some years laters a lot would have them. And yes they are used for problems like maybe overbite, to much or to less room between teeth or something like that. But a lot of time its not ‘medicaly’ nescesarry. Its just to make teeth look more perfect. I have a gab between my two front teeth. I could have had braces for them and got it fixed (because of the idea of beauty) but i didnt, (Sorry for my bad english, i am dutch)

[@sharinettegonzalez23]

@@doornroosje4695the thing is those problem can actually become medically necessary to fix because they can eventually cause of their even worse issues down the line.

[@valdonese11]

@@sharinettegonzalez23Same thing with Plastic Surgery tho. They touched on labiaplasty a little, sometimes there is a lil that is so long it’s causing discomfort and might even get irritated or infected. Or with Botox and how it can help with migraines, excessive sweating, or tmj. All plastic surgery but can be deemed medically necessary.

[@shinynickel29]

Exactly! As we age, our teeth naturally move forward (according to my dentist). My teeth were always a bit crooked but over the years some are completely overlapped or are even turning out. It’s hard to keep clean and they hurt every single day. I made sure my kids got braces cause I don’t want them to suffer, but at $5,000+ (seven-ish years ago) I just can’t afford my teeth to get fixed now, and likely never. Our teeth and gum health have far reaching effects on the rest of the body. It’s bizarre insurance continues to call this cosmetic.

[@ninthee7113]

it’s so sad to see so many young women change their natural face because they feel like they aren’t pretty :(

[@perad1895]

rather pathetic then sad. western ideology is too materialistic.

[@rip_kaiza283]

Not everyone is pretty and its natural to want to be. Risking your health for it is another matter...

[@nxtxshx07]

@@rip_kaiza283change ur statement to not everyone is pretty… to everyone

[@Brendaglam24]

It’s not sad

[@poejavelski148]

@@nxtxshx07Cope

[@emanuelephrem4307]

Superficial culture creates superficial peopel

[@perlesdepluie7576]

Exactly

[@TheNewblade1]

I'm hesitant to agree only because I know you're limiting it to this one aspect when 90% of our society is superficial or simulacra. Ex. Voting is superficial in a system with electoral delegates.

[@giavonnathomas1265]

Valuing appearance / engaging in medical cosmetics does not = a shallow or superficial person. Generalizing people based on personal choices is judgmental & close minded. Stereotypes are superficial opinions Emanuel!

[@bisoubarbie]

@@giavonnathomas1265the way I interpreted his comment was to say that since people do judge and treat others differently for their physical appearance and features they were born with (superficial), it makes people want to get surgery to change the features that they were born with (also being “superficial”).

[@purpleplanet888]

ur on a superficial platform commenting a superficial comment, stop judging, plastic surgery is a consequence of this society

[@minghaonator]

Christie is so sweet. Listening to her talk about the way she views herself made me so happy

[@ChristieMcFit]

Thank you so much 🫶 it’s always been important to me to remain true & transparent. I’m glad I was able to get that message across 🥹🙏

[@egt3588]

This young black woman Amala is definitely showing how being so smart is very attractive

[@Purrciia]

Love Amala ❤❤

[@bee6684]

So true!!

[@mingo2024]

Amala's youtube channel is one of my faves. She's great.

[@klam9932]

It doesn't matter that she is black. Stop mentioning race!

[@luvlyleahxx]

I adore Amala 🤭🩷

[@Zirwaaa]

Although I do agree with the natural side, Christie's so honest and open about everything and she seems so sweet.

[@ChristieMcFit]

Thank you 🥹🥰🫶🫶🫶 I appreciate you

[@jasonibanez9855]

@@ChristieMcFit You're a doll. Great personality.

[@lexie02jones25]

Me too!

[@nyheemjohnson8243]

Ur the child the plastic surgeon was describing 😂😂

[@Zirwaaa]

@@nyheemjohnson8243 Pretty sure the only child here is u

[@ogshaynanigans]

why is no one addressing daphne telling her child that they have something wrong to fix. she should not be a parent :) that’s awful. children don’t know something wrong until they’re told that and as a parent you’re foundational in them developing self worth and acceptance

[@purpleplanet888]

she only said that she would if her daughter would be crying abt it everyday

[@RM-gq5jv]

@@purpleplanet888 I mean what does a really bad nose even mean? Why is she thinking about her imaginary daughter’s features and the insecurities she’s going to have already when the kid is not even born yet. She’s very mean honestly.

[@Yaunanelson]

No literally like everyone is talking abt the surgeon as if she’s not agreeing with the natural side most of the time as if daphne wasn’t just talking crazzzzzzzzy

[@welicatiga]

Honestly, my mouth dropped when she said that. I have a big forehead. Because of my parents calling me the most beautiful daughter ever, I never thought there was anything wrong with me. Until some random douchy boy pointed it out at my birthday party. Now I've noticed it. Luckily for me, because of my parents, I have a high self esteem and wouldn't change my face and/or forehead for anything. But my insecurity came from someone else. If I had Daphne as a parent, I might've grew up with a different head on my shoulders.

[@loni1932]

She could ensure her daughter there is nothing wrong with her nose, and that she’s beautiful; but no, straight to surgery 😭😭 I hope she never has a daughter

[@candaceellison7147]

The urge I’ve felt over the years to get my hip dips filled in. I use to hate them but have started to embrace them over the years. I think the natural look will come back around.

[@zandikhetwayo7444]

I hate my hip dips😭😭😭

[@zoes.inferno]

I used to be so bothered by them, but seeing them on other women that I idolized, and thought were so beautiful, really made me appreciate them on myself over time.

[@tru1495]

So weird that hip dips are even an insecurity. They look so nice. They’re just part of a woman’s shape.

[@Ashley_Magnolia]

The Dr is being intentionally obtuse toward the naturals arguments.

[@edwinamendelssohn5129]

💰

[@robbiedaw3415]

She is pro isreal so

[@abnormalways]

The example of the married couple and the wife needing surgery to be intimate.. TF.. maybe the husband has cornbrain or not in love like that address the real issue 😅

[@sammyk707]

I know but her air of superiority she gives off makes me irate haha

[@sammyk707]

@@robbiedaw3415I’m not surprised by that at all

[@ptango]

Daphne is very immature. I also feel like she has deep insecurities that she would rather not address, so opts to be flippant and nonchalant instead of processing her inner issues. The other plastic surgery ladies were really wholesome and honest, but Daphne's immaturity really came through.

[@s.r6331]

She's 23.. u really expect 20 yr olds to be mature. They havent figure out life yet.

[@pamjam098]

I agree. She also kept cutting ppl which I really didn’t like. 👎🏾

[@bluesblooms]

@@s.r6331I’m 16 and have a few more brain cells than that 😂

[@annemadden7920]

@@bluesbloomsGood for you, everyone matures at different rates and it definitely takes some time for a lot of people. Everyone has different problems to face.

[@littlegoots]

@@annemadden7920And clearly her problem was her face

[@Squid893]

I think Dr.Nazarian's labiaplasty example fits more into the category of reconstructive at that point rather than cosmetic. It's not cosmetic anymore if it's causing you physical pain and discomfort. I don't think I'd put that situation in the same category as someone getting a BBL..

[@sandram1644]

Reconstructions are cosmetic surgery…

[@Squid893]

@@sandram1644 no they are not haha, look up the definition of reconstructive surgery. They’re might be an added benefit cosmetically but that’s never the root cause of getting something reconstructive done. “Reconstructive surgery fixes defects you were born (like the abnormally long labia that causes real pain and discomfort), defects caused by disease and defects caused by injury.” Reconstructive implies that there’s a medical need for the surgery, while cosmetic is purely…cosmetic. Nothing against cosmetic at all, I just don’t agree with how she frames it

[@dolphin8766]

Insurance companies view them as cosmetic, be realistic everyone is not getting plastic surgeries to look like barbie.

[@Squid893]

@@dolphin8766 Not always true at all

[@CsySnw]

@@dolphin8766 clearly this convo is abt ppl who get it to fit beauty standards come on

[@prettypotheaddd]

I’m sorry but Daphne is deeply insecure. She keeps deflecting points by making excuses. Everything is so ”simple” to her. Like at 20:19 when she says “your mom can tell you all day your beautiful but if you won’t believe it if you’re getting treated bad at school.” Or something along those lines is mind boggling to me. So because one has insecurities instead of doing the inner work they should just say screw it and go under the knife? She tries to minimize plastic surgery to to this easy quick fix that comes with no repercussions and has no downsides when it’s just not true. I feel like she’s doing this to make herself feel better about getting surgery because due to her insecurities, the opposing side’s points feel like personal attacks to her ego. Plus the flat affect and monotone voice she puts on to try to elude to her being “unbothered” is so easy to see through. Everytime she speaks she’s literally proving their point. Really hope she can work through this because it’s really sad to see.

[@amorelena]

Totally 100% agree with everything you said. Watching her speak irked me so badly because it was so easy to read through all the insecure comments she made. The way she spoke as well as her facial expression said it all about how two-faced she is literally disguising her low self-esteem

[@Coedofethics]

Nikki’s listening/processing facial expressions have me absolutely WEAAAAK 😂😂😂

[@kiaradenese1272]

LMAOAO FRRL she looks like she’s shitting 😭

[@Your_barbella]

Loool that's EXACTLY the comment I was looking for 😂😂

[@dakotasudul3988]

FOR REAL😂😂 I have a very expressive face, this is what I probably look like at many times too.😂

[@sierraneshelle9947]

Me too hahaha

[@aloe704]

LOL SAME. I make the same expression when I'm deeply listening

[@nancymetz-s7z]

remember it’s a business. people will butcher someone for the money in it. not social care !

[@MaxTheDestroyer707]

While I agree on kinda, there are also plastic surgeons who do medical procedures to help patients beyond boobjobs & buttlifts. You have one that focuses on on burn victims for instance.

[@TheUrbanEpicure]

@@MaxTheDestroyer707 That's literally what the surgeon in the video spoke about. But people are so quick to judge, probably because they're ugly and can't afford surgery...

[@justinaacuriouswanderer1496]

Exactly. I am surveying people here by asking this simple question: Why is it that 92% of people who undergo cosmetic plastic surgery are women? (According to the American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS), including both surgical and non-surgical treatments) Just answer that question.

[@electroencefaIografista]

also her explaining it's okay to give a teenager a surgery because she's getting bullied as if she was the problem and not the bullies...

[@melisanmelrose]

I think cosmetic surgeries are already normalised. Or maybe I'm just de-sensitized to it because of all these influencers and celebrity culture doing this.

[@rickson50]

only among certain subcultures. definitely not noramal to general society

[@desiree5895]

@@rickson50 ehh lots of general society also gets surgeries. I have seen 2 or 3 ppl with bbls in person.

[@monkeycerebrum8434]

they are definitely normalized in some countries like korea

[@Jennylovesbread]

@@rickson50 I disagree, I graduated high school in 2016, I’m 26 now and myself a lot of my classmates have stable salaries, a large amount of the girls have already invested in getting cosmetic procedures done and it’s regular conversation when we meet up for dinners, we were theatre nerds and gamers in high school, and now most of us work regular office jobs

[@Ana-i8k]

I agree but also everything we see now de sensitized in most stuff

[@philipehusani]

"Should Plastic Surgery be normalized" Surgeon: *Brings up extreme cases* How are the extremes normal?

[@ReneceWilson-n1g]

She doesn’t wanna go out of business lol

[@Jax-r4p]

They are normal and probably the majority of her clients. Especially the birth injuries. It’s not uncommon for women to have pretty significant issues from pregnancy and birth.

[@Radiatron18]

I genuinely like that this felt like a discussion rather than people shouting over people

[@Whueso]

The disproportionality of women who get cosmetic plastic surgery versus men who do tells us so much about this conversation. One thing it definitely highlights is how women are valued on looks and such little else, and that's absolutely heartbreaking.

[@pvcore]

What about steroid use in men? It's still a way to change your body

[@Kirbystare1992]

@@pvcorestill disproportionate

[@iimmortalldreams]

@@Kirbystare1992 True but them's the breaks. This conversation has been done a million times without a different conclusion. Women valued on looks, men more so on our accomplishments and financial standing. Heteronormative gender expectations aren't going away in our lifetime unfortunately.

[@SieMiezekatze]

Agree the idea that woman only value is beauty is so depressing .

[@rosymaze]

many years ago, some guy tried to argue with me on here that the beauty industry is as bad on men as it is on women and ppl were actually defending him. People are truly delulu

[@BlueberrySummertime]

Sagging breasts are completely natural for women of ALL ages they need to be normalised. The analogy used at 7:54 isn’t cause for plastic surgery but for self love. I love my huge saggy boobs and idc because it’s MY body.

[@rinared9]

Not true at all. Sagging breasts are deemed very unattractive by society and most men. I have spoken with many men and most would pick a woman who has healthier looking and more attractive breasts than a woman with sagging ones. Perky breasts give the impression that the women takes care of herself which is what men like. We need to stop lying to ourselves to make ourselves feel better and understand certain things aren’t attractive

[@Januaryjenkins]

@@rinared9 she said natural not attractive, wtf?? How do you come to the conclusion natural and attractive are synonymous??? Saggy balls aren’t attractive either btw but it IS natural

[@lifelikejosie]

YASSS 🎉

[@nicolenicole2085]

​@@Januaryjenkins THIS! The male genitalia stay saggy and wrinkled 😂

[@notibutchristGal222]

​@@rinared9having saggy breasts has nothing to do with taking care of yourself? It just happens, it's life.

[@haileyrichardson3049]

Ugh Daphne saying she would encourage her daughter to get a nose job is horrible. She should not under any circumstances be a mother. She is so immature and clearly has deep self image issues.

[@luvlyleahxx]

I agree. I really didn’t like any of her points. She seems far too immature and encouraging that stuff will not help her future children. Which I honestly hope she doesn’t has..

[@electroencefaIografista]

nose jobs only make sense if you have trouble breathing. that's it.

[@sweetzs100]

She’s honestly not very pretty and still really young so I think it’s her insecurity speaking but one day she’ll learn

[@24Zigg]

Honestly, these surgeries make a lot of these women look older than they really are. Maybe even speed up the aging process…

[@mattb6704]

Less is more. You can make tweaks here and there and get away with it, but they always end up over doing it.

[@hayleyisuppose]

girls i have known since i was in elementary school have gotten work done, and they’re all unrecognizable and they all look so aged. taking kylie jenner as an example she was looking like she was in her 30s when she first entered her 20s.

[@s.r6331]

Christie looking like she in her 30s not 26. 💀

[@emmyjr1231]

reminds me of Love Island UK

[@neurotii]

Exactly. Why did no one mention this? Daphne looks at least 3 years older. She mentioned it's been a while since she got botox

[@bleepbloopbop]

Never heard of anyone in Asia getting nose surgery to wear glasses. They make glasses that fit ethnic faces instead of doing surgery to fit a pair of glasses. Wtf is this plastic surgeon on about.

[@coolio4843]

That’s just something they tell themselves to get a nose job to have a higher bridge.

[@catsareawesomemckinnon3393]

As someone who has a flat or more broad nose and who wears glasses,I have never heard someone say that before. Do I have to push my glasses up on my nose? Yes, but, not being able to wear glasses because I don't have a high bridge, no.

[@AndreaGarcia-ww4wc]

Also the fact that she said they either have to get a nose job, otherwise they’d HAVE to do LASIK… like lasik isn’t cheaper than the nose job and has similar if not a shorter recovery period than a nose job, PLUS fixes the actual issue of you not being able to see and saving money on prescriptions, glasses, contacts, appts etc….. like girl you’re really telling me people opt for the nose job for FUNCTIONALITY lol?!

[@JMBBrasil]

Yeess

[@censaim]

Lmbo, my first thought was "then design new glasses that fit Asian noses" lolol

[@zentriqPi]

I can't help but notice that everyone is on the younger side in this. I think some of the story is missing here. Some perspective from someone in their 60s on either side would balance some of the talking points discussed. It's easy to believe in 'natural beauty' when you're younger (I put it in quotes because, to me, natural beauty means not wearing makeup for the most part). Let's hear the perspective of an older person some who prefers natural beauty. Let's hear from someone who's spent decades utilizing cosmetic beauty surgery. I think some of these discussions would have gone in a different direction with that broader perspective

[@krisk7310]

This 👏

[@1FairyGothMother]

This is almost always the case.

[@grassfedcharlie]

I feel like the younger guests would misunderstand and check out or become combative lol

[@giavonnathomas1265]

Valid Point! Never wore makeup outside of lipgloss & mascara until I was >30! Also started wearing sunscreen-lol! Additional perspective from even the 40-50 age bracket would add additional, valuable input to this conversation. Definitely easier to sway towards the “natural” side of this argument in your 20’s!!!!

[@s.r6331]

Definitely would've made a huge difference

[@Mianna.]

The overall difference between plastic surgery and natural is that plastic surgery gals either has insecurities or they HAD TO GET plastic surgery. The natural girls either want to fight against their insecurities or they simply don't find anything wrong with themselves and KNOW that they are beautiful.

[@ievafaulkner6021]

The older I get the more I realise that “ageing gracefully” has nothing to do with the way you look. It’s got to do with health, personal relationships, filling your time with something meaningful, being useful to the people you love. A spirited grandma growing her own fruit and veg and cooking for her grandchildren is, I’m my eyes, ageing a lot more gracefully than a plastic filled woman that is desperately trying to look younger than her years.

[@lh2435]

You could be both at the same time. I intend to be. One has nothing to do with the other.

[@mandboone1571]

I don’t necessarily agree with using the example of a woman whose abdominal muscles are displaced to the point that you can see her herniated intestines as justification for cosmetic surgeries. That woman doesn’t have a cosmetic issue, she has a structural issue. She can show that it disrupts her daily movements and keeps her from comfortably being able to move. She could get part of an abdominal reconstruction surgery covered by insurance. That is not purely cosmetic. I’ve had diastasis recti, it really sucked and I worked really hard to close it. If I couldn’t physically close it myself surgery might’ve been an option. We should normalize excess skin removal surgeries after weight loss or after children if that skin gets in the way of clothing fitting comfortably/properly, or if it inhibits hygiene.

[@bbbbb741]

Exactly. It's telling that that's the example she kept coming back to.

[@l19719]

@@bbbbb741 Insurance says it's cosmetic

[@s.r6331]

She just promoting herself. Lol

[@bbbbb741]

@@l19719 what does that have to do with what I wrote?

[@samr1013]

Yep, exactly. You can get plastic surgery for medical reasons. But the conversation is about cosmetic surgery.

[@carlanunez609]

I loved the Asian girl she is so sweet and honest and realistic and I can relate to her as well ! but so is Amala she is SO smart and I went to school w her ! So glad to see her standing in what she believes in 💕 love the conversation! Amala has found self love and is real as well

[@ChristieMcFit]

Aw girly thank you so much ❤

[@LABusDiaries]

@@carlanunez609 she had her surgeries just to be "sxy" work. That's a slap in the face to all people that are naturally built like that and a fetishized. Priorities are all messed up. No respect

[@ShannonCrystalMUA]

@@ChristieMcFityou look like Kimora. 💚💙

[@eceacar1741]

The surgeon is refusing the distinction between cosmetic surgery and reconstructive plastic surgery. What a dangerous influence this person is on their patients.

[@mesuda3001]

This needs to be the pinned comment

[@kaitlynlewis6958]

To the surgeon who said you can't tell she got work done... sorry honey it's obvious in my opinion

[@lindavoedisch2352]

She said herself she hasn't moved her forehead in 16 years and yet was for normalizing plastic surgery. Sorry paralyzing your face on purpose shouldn't be normalized. Some people choose to do it but it shouldn't be the norm.

[@angeleyes3386]

She’s beautiful so…

[@TheGymnast777]

Honestly think she looked natural

[@Kaibaby1992]

She looks very natural to me!

[@ClassyGyal]

​@@Kaibaby1992she is clearly in her 40s yet her tight skin isn't natural. Very obvious.

[@Anti_SoShell]

Dr: "During lockdown, I couldn't keep up with getting my work done (botox, fillers, etc) so I couldn't wait to rush back to the office because I felt like I looked horrible." Also Dr: "I don't think the work I get done matters all that much because of my mom and the journey I took to get here made me happy with who I am" 🙄

[@spiculicious]

real i was like.......wut? she contradicted herself a whole lot but that one was most glaring. lol

[@mattb6704]

Two things can be true at once. Fillers aren’t as invasive as rhinoplasty, chin implants, eye bag removal.

[@Josifin]

She said so many weird things lol 😅😂😢

[@SarcasticaleeXP]

Yes, I was thinking exactly the same thing, like girl you ran to get filler cause you hated what you saw, don't try to sugar coat it now.

[@s.r6331]

She was just there to promote herself. Lol

[@sunflowerpaws]

my bf gets so sad whenever i talk about changing any of my features, he's really helped me accept myself

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

Some are too far on the oogly meter that they can’t even acquire a boyfriend 🤷‍♀️.

[@dawoof5119]

That's a keeper

[@josephdahdouh2725]

i am so happy for you

[@BloodMeridians]

@DigimonOmobasuyi there's ugly men everywhere that compete for them They're only alone bc they refuse to date their looksmatch.

[@chefclaire148]

Amala is so intelligent & Christie's sitting posture is almost perfect!

[@toxichazmat5785]

Amala is one of the more self reflective people that's ever been on one of these episodes.

[@saranguyen2788]

Yep, she’s been on several Jubilee videos. Shes pretty consistent

[@ashlikresge2298]

Amala is the best fr😭🙏

[@abcdefg2174]

Looove Amala, she's always super level headed and so well spoken

[@everleighxoxox]

She has her own KZbin channel. She’s very aware and intelligent. Awesome person, love listening to her 😊

[@CreativelyKia]

Yeah, I’m surprised this is the most levelheaded that I’ve seen her actually agree with some of her points in THIS VIDEO. But normally she just comes off like a token and a Candace Owens wanna be💀

[@tayr3836]

The plastic surgeon is toxic. Idk. I would be that mom that has her stomach blown out and boobs hanging “to here” and it’s the idea that “normal” or “mommy makeover” “bbl” type is the beauty standard that puts into my head that my body is ugly. It’s because people spend money to change things that are normal, that now the new normal is to get procedures done. No I don’t want to go under for 4 hours and risk life to look “normal” I am normal.

[@annemadden7920]

You’re beautiful in and out ❤️

[@B-lazer3]

Real her wording is literally the issue at hand

[@meganbayram9210]

Exactly The language she uses is all wrong in the first place

[@maddie4347]

Yes!! I find the way she talks about women’s bodies to be horrific. The way she talks about women’s bodies alone induces anxieties and insecurities. How can she sit there and describe this Barbie idea of women as the “normal” or “standard”?

[@ItsMikky]

What’s weird from my outter observation, a lot of these women start looking very similar and their unique beauty goes away. They start looking like influencer clones.

[@ankra12]

Exactly.

[@staceyschmidt3149]

Yes!! Variety is the spice of life. Life would be _so boring_ if everyone would look exactly the same. All the different noses are intriguing to me; one "style" is not better than another. The shape of the eyes, the bow is the lips, the cheekbones, the original hair color (rare to see these days), the body shape- all so great to create variety! Then you can bring in even more interest with the colors one likes to wear, and the style of clothing. The hair- all the different kinds are so pretty, and who's to say which is the "best" kind, or that one type is the "preferred by everyone" version??

[@mzzmelonhead]

In my opinion, the natural side fits the beauty standard already. So there is no emotional need to change their body. I’m sure it takes hard work to maintain how they naturally look though. I wish they had chosen people that weren’t conventionally pretty for the natural side. The cosmetic surgery side felt they didn’t look conventionally pretty, so they got surgery. Genetics play a big part in your body composition as-well. I feel that you should be able to do whatever you want to your body. As long it’s you being able to make those decisions. Do what makes you happy, without any regrets.

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

💯people treat u terribly when they perceive you as ugly . Naturally pretty people are treated better

[@electroencefaIografista]

you can make the decision yourself but it doesn't change that you wouldn't get to this point without societal pressure and beauty standards.

[@droooooooooo]

DID SHE JUST SAY SHE WAS A DANCER IN CLUBS AT 16?!

[@Nikita-oi8cf]

Some girls start as waitresses or help behind-the-scenes until they turn 18 to become official dancers. She said she started at 18

[@ItsHowdy]

☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️

[@hidansektas]

​@@Nikita-oi8cfso legal grooming

[@brahmas1685]

Yeah she backpedaled and said 18 later. Nothing against her but I don't think her experiences and the mental state they carry should be the standard girls look to when considering plastic surgery.

[@Ray03595]

@@brahmas1685 You dont mistake 16 for 18 when it comes to when you started experiencing club culture. Def sounds like she was trying to protect her former employers or something.

[@sturdydyydyd]

Personally I only accept plastic surgery when it's actually needed: noses that can't breathe correctly, extreme asymmetry or deformed features, reconstructing the face after a bad injury etc. Stop making healthy bodies look like they need "fixing".

[@jasmineparker3350]

EXACTLY bro

[@FernandoTorrera]

It’s more common than people think getting plastic surgery for health reasons. Getting a tummy tuck after pregnancy isn’t just for looks. My mom was peeing herself a little, and having a hard time pooping after the damage. She went to a plastic surgeon and got it fixed. After I became a mom I met a lot of women with different problems from pregnancy they got fixed with surgery. Like a hernia on the abs. I became more pro plastic surgery and would even say health insurance should cover mommy makeovers, cause I saw first hand all the damage you can go through after pregnancy. Back in history women with potty issues was a huge problem.

[@thebazile5253]

Mother here with a pouch and saggy boobs. The biggest reason I feel like I need to get these fixed after I'm done having kids is the image of women put out on media. If we had a real unfiltered woman for the face of woman, there would be a lot less woman feeling insecure. Thank goodness, I have a husband who loves me and still finds me sexy and beauty no matter how my body has changed. Edited for spelling errors

[@B-lazer3]

So true!

[@JaslineXD]

I agree, my biggest insecurity is seeing moms online with a flat stomach and perky boobs, if I don’t see them I’m fine lol

[@allyson3123]

Why are you putting the responsibility of your insecurity on these women though? They’re not directly telling you something is wrong with you. Mabye it’s something you feel deep down that it’s bought out when online. I won’t deny media definitely contributes, but it’s your mindset at the end of the day. Love yourself and you won’t feel the need to compare.

[@maddie4347]

@@allyson3123I don’t think the problem is seeing women who look a certain way and comparing yourself to them, I think the problem is when you ONLY see women who look a certain way. It’s one thing to have your friends on Instagram who have a smaller build than you, it’s a whole other thing when every post you look at, actress you see, ad you see, are all women who look the same. Most of this online is INTENTIONAL to try to sell you something. Sell you the idea that you’re abnormal and you need to pay money to change. The responsibility on the other women isn’t to make me or anyone else more secure. But that doesn’t mean that I’m going to stay silent about a culture that encourages me and other people to hide or cover our insecurities in effort to be perfect and in turn influence other women that they also need to be perfect.

[@electroencefaIografista]

@@allyson3123 because people don't exist in a vacuum. we're social animals by nature and you can't overcome this fact with your sheer will

[@cloudsshi3794]

daphne and the plastic surgeon (heavy on this one) had some of the worst takes I've heard on plastic surgery

[@ZephyrAuraa]

This plastic surgeon is trying so hard to keep money rolling in LMAO. That's all she's doing is defending the money plastic surgery gets her.

[@SPslash2011]

Exactly what I said!

[@faf_Saleh825]

Very shallow of her honestly

[@pamjam098]

Well, that’s literally her job….??! I mean am I missing something???? 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@ZephyrAuraa]

@@pamjam098 She could've honestly been real because regardless people would still go, the way she was defending it like she was going to be jobless tomorrow was like come on 🙄. Bringing up medical surgeries deflected from the issue at hand, because the subject wasn't medical surgeries. It was plastic surgeries to enhance looks for superficial reasons.

[@Palaecro]

She sees everything through the lens of 💸💸💸

[@violet_skrs]

people are arguing against plastic surgery. when the real issue is society's pressure and unrealistic beauty standards pushed upon individuals. which is typically leveraged by corporations just to make money by picking on people's insecurities. the surgery isn't the issue, it's societal pressure and corporate greed.

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

💯. If MF didn’t chastise people who they don’t seem attractive or give people they do see as appealing more opportunities, people would be content . As long as appealing people are treated better . Insecure folks will never disappear

[@penapple4086]

just like fitness industry, PEDs made a lot of insecurities to naturals in which they hop on. I assume plastic surgery is a cycle of insecurities that put unrealistic standards

[@perlesdepluie7576]

Exactly

[@brahmas1685]

Sure but normalizing and buying into the industries that perpetuate those standards or warp them further isn't helping either.

[@BrandNewAlien]

Takes two to tango, everybody is fully aware corporations are after money can't be falling for that now

[@ShayanGivehchian]

Im glad i find the natural girls in this line up to be the prettiest.

[@kk-cr4db]

It's also much easier to stand for natural beauty when you were born with a face of a model.

[@spunchbobonmolly]

putting other girls down to uplift others is 🤢

[@sjdess]

plastic surgery tends to exaggerate people's faces to the point they're no longer balanced/proportionate.

[@LM-yp5ee]

they selected women with obvious plastic surgery. many people have plastic surgery that no one would know if they did not publicly tell others. most plastic surgery ends up looking beautiful. like anything, some people prefer more apparent cosmetic adjustments and that is why people pigeon hole plastic surgery as bad - they visualize people with bad plastic surgery

[@leavemealone1499]

​@@spunchbobonmollyIt's just a preference.

[@Sdoo493]

Daphne is clearly representing girls who live their lives based on how social media says they should lol

[@kay4186]

Insecurities plague all people. The difference between the two poles: “natural” & “surgery,” is how much their insecurities have controlled them.

[@Lily-wd7dz]

Or you could look at it as though the people who had surgery are taking control of their bodies rather than being controlled by what is "natural".

[@welicatiga]

Heavily agreed!

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

Not always . Life ain’t 🌈 and pop tarts for everyone. Not all ugly peopel get off scotch free. The world is merciless no matter how much u love yourself .

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

@@welicatigawhy. What he or she said is stewpid and tone deaf 😂

[@AndreaGarcia-ww4wc]

@@Lily-wd7dztaking control of your body does not mean you are taking control of your mind, emotions, etc. Especially given that a lot of these women struggle with doing procedure after procedure in the never ending search for acceptance, whether that be self acceptance or acceptance from others. It’s an internal issue that you’re trying to fix externally. I would not say a person with bulimic or self harming tendencies is taking control of their bodies, even though it’s been proven that individuals that go through that do so with that purpose.

[@jinx724]

I feel bad for Daphne... she's very insecure and hides behind being blunt in my opinion. I think she has more maturing to do. Even her posture is small and clinched she's deeply insecure about herself.

[@oliviaw.2842]

I don't think this is fair on her. She's literally 23, it's expected that she's supposed to be maturing. She also may just have bad posture or be nervous... this is intimidating and not everyone is great at public speaking.

[@jeannnstezz47]

@@oliviaw.2842periodt , people read into people tooo deep, let them live and learn

[@ert-u9b]

Stop protecting your insecurities on her

[@user-uj4oc1le7b]

“even her posture is small and clinched she’s deeply insecure”.. wtf is this comment, please go outside. you have never met people in your life

[@user-uj4oc1le7b]

@@ert-u9bsounds so much like projection 💀

[@hannaxx7382]

why was daphne just dirty looking everyone the whole time😂

[@littlebunny13]

She looked very self conscious 😭😭

[@mattb6704]

I got Asperger vibes from her.

[@natallini]

yeaa she looked kinda scared

[@brenleysoccerbee]

i think that is just her face when processing things unfortunately 😂 but she was very nice and respectful to everyone so i don’t think she was giving dirty looos

[@alonimonae2346]

I think thats her natural face, mine is the same😭

[@rtmusicvideos431]

Lauren is so naturally beautiful…I’m surprised that even she is insecure and doesn’t love how she looks! It just proves how it’s all a matter of perspective and ultimately a mental issue that needs to be solved by changing how you think.

[@kittyfairy662]

Why are we not teaching women and girls that's it's okay to be ugly, you don't have to be pretty to be worthy of life, looks aren't everything, just be yourself and love yourself

[@DelightfulElectricCar]

Probably dormant natural selection

[@2okaycola]

Everyone is ugly to someone just as you will be beautiful to another

[@NatasjaJuliana]

Exactly. You don’t owe anyone a pretty face. You are still worthy of love and decency simply because you’re a person

[@electroencefaIografista]

because that would put the beauty industry out of business

[@mihighhh]

Yes firm believer of beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

[@marissathomas5483]

The comment Daphne made about her hypothetical daughter getting a nose job...im sorry why is no one talking about that?! that was so awful!

[@uraddiictOnx3]

i thought it was too. we need to cultivate stronger self esteem in our young girls

[@angelas831]

I don’t see the problem, if it’s effecting her mental health so be it. Many cultures do it.

[@ogshaynanigans]

i don’t think people that answer like her don’t often use the depth of thought required to understand how wrong what she said is.

[@justs0phie250]

What’s the time stamp

[@lilelrocker]

​@@justs0phie250 24:00

[@springinautumn777]

The plastic surgeon is delusional thinking that noone can notice the work she has had done to her face xD

[@Nasballim]

She's selling lies

[@Thufferinthuckotash]

There’s a term called makeup blindness which is basically where people don’t realise how bad their makeup is and i think the same for botox etc. People think they look natural / not obvious when the opposite is true.

[@mshoneyy]

literally this. she's so deeply entrenched in the psychosis of the plastic surgery world, she doesn't even realize what natural actually looks like anymore.

[@RSC1123]

You can assume that something was done but I think her point is that it looks natural. To me she looks as natural as the celebrities that everyone thinks are natural but aren’t🤷🏽‍♂️. Idk, if I didn’t know she was a plastic surgeon or if she didn’t say what she had, I probably wouldn’t think anything.

[@AlixZin]

Girl, we all noticed.

[@The.Black.Pawprint]

The arguments against normalizing surgery were the best! Those ladies did a great job articulating their points.

[@antoinegray7741]

"Men are more attracted to natural beauty" should have been replaced with "men prefer beauty to be natural."

[@y-yyy]

Very well said!

[@fitthickchic6732]

That depends on how a woman's natural beauty looks.

[@lilyshah4608]

Hahahaha! Lies

[@justimani4]

​​​​@@lilyshah4608Honestly i always see this phrase but the women that men are out here drooling over have had plastic surgery lmaooo . They just can't tell . Men prefer beautiful women ! Not natural women is the correct phrase. As long as you look gorgeous plastic or not men will like you 😂. Men even think that celebrities with personal trainers , fillers , editing and makeup are what women look like naturally . So that natural beauty phrase is just to soothe people cos we're so crowded with plastic beauty it feels very threatening to some . If that phrase was the truth a lot of things would be different .

[@cobrakaier238]

They prefer beauty that "looks" natural. I don't think they care if it isn't.

[@samr1013]

The surgeon was very irritating to listen to. Any time she would respond to someone, she would bring up something completely irrelevant to what was originally said (e.g., in response to someone asking why having wrinkles is not considered "aging gracefully," she brings up extreme examples of past client's insecurities and asked where to "draw the line with what's ok." Completely unrelated to the topic of aging gracefully and did not answer the question). I was also surprised that a doctor would refer to having one longer labia as being "abnormal." She repeatedly describes what "normal" labia look like, but any surgeon should know that it is completely normal to have labia that are longer/different lengths. It is actually least common to have the shorter, perfectly matched labia. Most women do not. It's also laughable of her to suggest that COSMETIC plastic surgery wouldn't exist without insecurity. That's literally what cosmetic refers to in this case. Unnecessary surgery that takes place for non-medical reasons.

[@TYD98]

omg same here the plastic surgeon is toxic , insufferable and was here to promote and normalize plastic surgery.

[@Marie-zz1el]

I didn’t like how she referred to multiple things as “normal” when talking about different women’s bodies but especially the labia of a young girl. She chooses very abrasive words to describe some of her patients.

[@c47_89]

the surgeon saying she has filler but you can't tell....☠️ yes you can girl

[@pamjam098]

Hater!! 😠

[@tarekjb3414]

I actually couldnt tell 😂

[@roseredremix]

I don’t think I would know if I just saw her. I would guess Botox though…

[@dela_elizabeth]

I couldn't tell either lmao

[@Kayko954]

I honestly couldn’t tell either 😮

[@Bryan_BeBe003]

loved how this is one of the more tame episodes of middle ground 🤣🤣 i'm glad to see both sides actually find middle ground rather than straight up duke it out on set ♡

[@InternetGirl1093]

I (and nearly every dentist and orthodontist, I would guess) disagree with the notion that braces are solely aesthetic. Proper tooth alignment is 100% a necessity to help your body process foods, avoid infections and major dental work in the future that you wouldn't need to have if you aligned your teeth sooner. They are not purely for aesthetics, though I do agree that as the technology has become more widespread, they grew in popularity.

[@lateinbloom]

Yup. I had the opposite experience bc my teeth look visually straight, but I have a crossbite. It got diagnosed when I was 9, but my parents didn't see anything wrong visually, so they decided not to pay for me to get braces. Now I have recurring damage to my front teeth and TMJ and need to get braces in my 30s.

[@switzjon8405]

Folks don't value difference any more. When she said everyone looked exactly the same. That's a scary world to be in.

[@jasmineparker3350]

Fr bro…

[@Bobbobbity-e5g]

i swear this plastic surgeon is bringing up so many extreme examples of things that are effecting people's lives, like a thing that is actually affecting their everyday lives. most of these people who are getting these surgeries just want a bigger butt, or bigger boobs, etc.

[@Yentra163]

Not necessarily! Those are just the type of surgeries that are flaunted/advertised. MANY people have surgeries to fix deformities privately. What you see in the media isn't a full picture of reality. It's an exaggeration of one part that they want you to see.

[@Bobbobbity-e5g]

@@Yentra163 im just talking about the ppl who get plastic surgeries to get bigger boobs or butts

[@Palaecro]

She's manipulative with the way she approaches arguments to constantly favor plastic surgery. I mean I get it, it's her business but it also comes across unethical.

[@mikeydoodle143]

she doesn't know vanity over abnormality to think she is a doctor.

[@Cimlite]

My take is way more basic: Natural simply looks better. There's something so off-putting when you see what people have done to themselves, and you always do see it. It's never hidden as the person thinks it is.

[@BibleBurner-f7w]

And yet, “natural” people that are ugly get treated like horse crap anyways. Proof that yall don’t practice what yall preach.

[@AmyBrahic]

I am a future therapist/therapy goer and I would love to see you do one over therapy goers and people that wont do therapy!!! (put me on the panel please!!!)

[@Whueso]

Current therapist here. I'd love to see that too! I'd even be on the panel if I could.

[@AmyBrahic]

@@Whueso ditto

[@AmyBrahic]

@@Whueso they need people that go to therapy/dont and are current therapists and future therapists

[@valeriabellettinijerves4308]

Very important subject.

[@hannahanderson5658]

Brilliant idea!

[@MsWitchHazel666]

I can completely tell the surgeon in the black coat and white button-up shirt has had work done on her face it's very very obvious there is the certain plastic surgery look that's unmistakable, no she doesn't look like a Kardashian but she sure looks like she's had work done

[@sirsteve8999]

She even admitted that tho? Lmao. Idk what you're trying to prove??? 😂

[@chelsycordon6187]

She honestly looks bad and changed her entire ethnicity

[@SarcasticaleeXP]

@@sirsteve8999 The surgeon said in the video that it looks natural and people wouldn't notice/know. Op disagrees and says that it is indeed noticeable. That wasn't a hard point to comprehend.

[@TYD98]

@@sirsteve8999 I think you didn't watch the entire thing 😅

[@bloodyrose1995]

I wish they had women who were not traditionally pretty on the natural side. Ask a woman who does have the wonky nose or a heavier body or wrinkles. Ask them how they feel about the parts of themselves that society says isn’t beautiful.

[@TayMay220]

💯yes shoulda been more perspectives from this

[@yyby_]

jubilee lost their magic touch in casting

[@disneytoysr4fun975]

Amala is not conventional

[@faisaali2000]

💯. The natural girls still fit the standard

[@camilac3346]

@@disneytoysr4fun975 she fits the beauty standard even if you don't consider her as beautiful.

[@cherainee5160]

The surgeon mentions no one would know she has fillers…. Ofc we can see it. It’s very obvious her face doesn’t move

[@TRW98]

Braces are a big part of health and not looks. It's way harder to brush your teeth and keep your mouth healthy if it's not smooth.

[@pspspspspspspspspspspspspspss]

I have braces to fix my overbite so I can properly close my teeth, it’s not just cosmetic

[@JannatanyahuStaAna]

Same here, I'm having mine for almost 7 years because I have a severe case of underbite teeth, that make my chin appear very long and I was bullied for that calling me a pizzahead and a dagger monster like that. Also it gives me a struggle to bite on food and chew on because it hits my lips especially when I'm not careful on chewing and it's sickening. So back in Sep. 2017 my mom brought me to the dentist and that started fixing my teeth. Now it way easier to use them and it doesn't hurt my lips anymore, and also my teeth looks better too. Now my lower teeth went inside now and my braces can be taken off on Jan. next year

[@AmiriHipHop]

I once heard someone say that getting plastic surgery INHERENTLY makes you an insecure person. Unless it's for a health related reason or for healing wounds from abuse or an accident, the ONLY purpose one has for getting plastic surgery is simply because they aren't proud of their current appearance.

[@oopsie8866]

Well yes? Most people are insecure, people who get surgery just take it another step & try to remove that insecurity. Insecurity doesn’t make you a bad person, it makes you an honest one

[@anunwantedsoul3672]

How does that affect your ability to breathe?

[@CJ-ql9py]

@@oopsie8866 exactly. If you can fix it why not? People make alternations to themselves all the time plastic surgery is just an advance level. Im too poor and scary to take the route😂

[@AmiriHipHop]

@@oopsie8866 I didn't put this in the original comment for brevity but I asked that same question from the person I heard it from. "So what's the matter with that?" And their response was that they just don't like people who LIE about it. Even at the end of your comment "It makes you an honest person". There are people who get plastic surgery and will completely turn around say "Me getting surgery has nothing to do with me being insecure". So once they broke it down that way, I didn't have an issue with their comment.

[@DigimonOmobasuyi]

People treat u terrible when ur unappealing. Gym doesn’t change ur facial structure .

[@alijane6675]

Acid attack victims require plastic surgery. Why not have one of those brave women on this panel? If you want to challenge beauty standards, CHALLENGE them.

[@r22gamer54]

thats a seperate thing, in this topic they are focusing on doing plastic surgery just for the sake of it.

[@topfl00rboss]

i dont think acid attacks are common enough that they could just find someone

[@melaninmonroeeee]

That is reconstructive surgery . This is about cosmetic (aka vanity) surgery . There is a difference.

[@yesplatinum7956]

They’re not relevant in this topic

[@fresshlegends1331]

@@r22gamer54 bro no