The Image of God is NOT a Quality. It is a Status

I am opposed to the qualitative view of the image of God; that the image refers to a quality, because it cannot be said that all humans at all stages of life's existence, have whatever this quality is, and there's a whole grocery list that the theologians have proposed; self-awareness, the ability to pray, language, etc. The biblical teaching is that whatever the image is, it's not bestowed incrementally. It distinguishes humanity from everything else in the earthly creation here. And it's both male and female. It's just there. To be human is to be whatever this is. And if you make it a quality, you can't say those things of a fetus. The little multi-cell thing in the woman's womb there, it's not praying, it's not communing with God. It's not self-aware, it's none of these things. A lot of these are all actually linked to brain function. And this view has actually been used by ethicists to say that life isn't sacred until you get brain development. It really has dark ethical implications, but we don't realize that because we're just sort of taught to think this way. And I'm opposed to that. What what the image really is, it's not a quality, the image is a status or function. Check it out!

[@DRMSH]

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[@realitywins6457]

The buying-a-pizza analogy is really helpful. I can say let's go get pizza, buy everything, drive everyone, bring everyone along and it all still make sense. I can "do it all" and still allow others to be there. God is so relational, and so accessible. Hidden but evident.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

The example the bible uses, namely the creation of the tabernacle/temple, would have been more fruitful because it gives the exact spiritual sense specifically to help us understand what took place in the creation of the universe, which the temple represents.

[@Charles.Wright]

Yes but did you eat all the pizza? (I believe God is triune - just wondering)

[@realitywins6457]

@@Charles.Wright I can't imagine not eating all the pizza the *God* buys. I anticipate flavors not even possible here -- some majestic-stuffed-with-glory-and-bacon-garlic-wonder.

[@Charles.Wright]

@@realitywins6457 - I don't think you understood the question. If Bob says let's get pizza, drives to pizza,buys pizza, etc. Does Bob eat all the pizza? Does he share?

[@realitywins6457]

@@Charles.Wright Same. I think I understand your question: Heiser doesn’t address (at least here) the ‘make’ part of “let us make” part, only the ‘us’ part - “let us”. So by asking about the pizza in the analogy are you asking if the other Elohim contribute to the making of humans? Am I getting at your question?

[@kevindouglas6120]

Dr Heiser is one of few people out there I will watch and listen to. Nobody's going to be perfect but he's always explaining things from a perspective that a lot of people will not share because they feel it's something they earned through study or whathaveyou. I've never heard anyone say anything negative about him and that's saying a lot.

[@ricardovera116]

There are a lot of scared people that criticize this man. They think they’ve studied what he’s studied. One of the big problems of the church today. We think we don’t need to know how to understand the original context and language to understand the Bible. In our context, we have to do that. We’re not the original audience

[@StallionFernando]

Oh you'd be surprised lol, although I don't agree with everything Heiser says I do agree that his level of thinking and analyzation is on a different level from most. Most of his criticism comes from the Calvinist camp, but they criticize everybody.

[@calebhoppe7597]

It does say a lot. But I would encourage people to consider what God said about not hearing anyone say anything negative about a preacher. Luke 6:26 “Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way." Some who were never ridiculed for the truth were never of the truth. Woe to them! A good preacher necessitates some men speaking badly of you. The Preacher was flogged, mocked, spit upon, nailed to a tree, cursed, and he died. He rose again on the third day and that Preacher's blood is perfect and purifies all who are covered by it. This Preacher was loved by God's seed, and hated by Satan's seed. Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Repent and believe this Jesus of Nazareth, He is the Preacher, and God is His Father.

[@andyk2218]

@@calebhoppe7597 The context of verse 26 has to be understood in the light of the rest of that chapter, plus Dr Heiser isn't a false prophet brother, however, I believe you are not accusing him of such?

[@carlcook944]

Luke 1:44: "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy."

[@snb2186]

Exacly 😂

[@istudante]

Hi, Carl. What do you mean by quoting Luke 1:44?

[@stephenrice2063]

Dr. Heiser isn't saying that there is no brain function in a six-month-old child in the womb. Rather, he is saying that the image of God is there regardless of the presence of any extrinsic qualities. If you are Adam, Eve, or any of their descendants, you are made in the image of God. Life begins at conception, but the brain doesn't develop until some time later. Does that mean (assuming brain function defines the image of God) that the pre-born child who has yet to develop a brain is not made in God's image and is thus fair game for abortionists? No.

[@loveistruth5713]

Thank you God for making the pizza and sharing it with the rest of us

[@loveistruth5713]

@@stephenrice2063 the Bible says God knew us before we were formed in the womb.

[@dennisdatu6464]

I would rather not have the interviewer interrupt Dr. Heiser when he is speaking and before Dr. Heiser finishes what he is saying.

[@InfinitEternaLove]

Waiting for the M.S.Heiser Study Bible!! 🙏🏼

[@Kevin_KC0SHO]

Love this explanation. It’s a Status not a quality, and doesn’t increase or decrease, nor is it acquired, but granted from the ultimate authority, The Creator of all.

[@Alexander082388]

Wow - great info. My pastor was teaching on this, but you brought extra clarity to being made “As” the image. Thanks!!

[@hanzosiku]

It's such a difficult thing to explain, the plurality of God in the bible. This so far makes most sense as compared to the Trinity explanation. God bless you sir.

[@kiwisaram9373]

Have you ever tried doing something without first thinking or telling yourself to do it? The thought proceeds the action. What then proceeds the thought?

[@franciscoscaramanga9396]

You're tracking that Dr. Heiser is a Trinitarian, right?

[@NMMD1531]

Image implies reflection in ancient humanity. I believe this is missing from your theology. “As above so below “ evolved from looking at reflections in lakes. Although God made man in His image , we are not gods alone. We were never created to be apart from the presence of God. “Imitating Christ” is reflective theology. Idolatry deceives man into believing he is a god unto himself. God does not “idolize humanity.” God desires relationship which implies reflection and duplication of qualities God desires in His creation. In God’s family the Father never dies.

[@twirlykaa2222]

That is his theology. The interviewer made that comparison which heiser dismissed immediately. You could maybe think of us as idols ( heiser calls us imagers of G-d as in a physical representation of G-d) but idols has a connotation of G-d worshipping us which is way way way wrong on all levels. Which I believe would be your main problem with that idea of us being idols? That there is no way G-d would worship us?

[@NMMD1531]

@@twirlykaa2222 nice comparison!

[@damiantrollope211]

Wow!**well said bruh

[@unknowntexan4570]

The idea of reflection is not dismissed in the status idea. We are ordained as God's image, which makes sense. So, the image is like "representing" which is reflecting.

[@NMMD1531]

@@unknowntexan4570 Christ said eternal life is being one with the Father and Son. I see no existence outside of that relationship with God.

[@DocLarsen44]

Good stuff, Dr. Heiser. I just finished you Supernatural series with Celebration Church, so this sounds very familiar. Thank you very much for sharing your learning of God's Word.

[@martinmartin1363]

Viv @ And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” These are Jesus words in Luke I believe the correct understanding is the Septuagint which the seventy elders wrote separately and exactly the same through the divine interpretation of the Holy Spirit

[@altonbrek]

Interesting. This explanation of the "us" and subsequent use of examples is making me meditate more deeply on God's word - especially with regard to parallels. 🤔

[@kiwisaram9373]

We all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:18

[@timothyvenable3336]

I love the pizza analogy. I’m a math teacher, so an analogy for me is “let’s solve this problem” and then I write a problem on the board, I explain what I’m doing step by step and I then solve the problem. The students didn’t help me or participate, but we’re present and the audience of what I was doing “with” them

[@EndTimesHarvest]

The best way to think of the image of God is that it describes inheritance, of inheriting from God in the same way that a child inherits from their parents. This is made clear when we compare these passages from Genesis: Genesis 1:26-27: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 5:3: "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth" This makes it clear that children are made in the image of their parents. The Son is the image of the Father, as described in Colossians 1:15: "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Being made in the image of God means that humans are truly His children, in the same way that children are in the image of their earthly parents. So yes, the "image of God" refers to a status: the status of being a child of God. This also entails inheritance; that children of God inherit things from God (such as inheriting the earth itself and the kingdom of Heaven).

[@davidjohnston710]

Good to show the additional context and parallels therein. I like the analogy that we are God’s offspring, and that God continues to add to His family - one could argue this is too anthropomorphic, or maybe it’s the other way around, and family is very Theistic. After the first few verses of Genesis speak of different categories of created things, or “kinds” (types), we see that humans were created as a unique “kind” that resembles God, and the counsel of shared heavenly beings. I think not only is the text’s meaning directed at human status as earth stewards (having dominion), but also that we have a “uniqueness” of purpose and relationship to the Father. This “uniqueness” was part of the unifying motif used by the Hebrew leadership (Moses?) to help establish nationalism and cohesion at a time when their culture needed definition and separation from the polytheistic culture of the Egyptians, from whom they were leaving. Genesis sets out a new definition or tradition of identity for them, a new ontology. It attributes all of creation to their monotheistic God.

[@cjnav7832]

Mike doesn't know what he's saying. It's simpler. Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the D U S T of the ground, and B R E A T H-ed into his nostrils the S P I R I T; and man became a living being. Dust = Body = JESUS has one = Our Flesh_we have one like God Breath = Spirit = HOLY SPIRIT of God = Our spirit of our earthly man_we have one like God Being = Soul = ABBA FATHER = Our existence or being on earth as terrestrial beings_we have one like God Simply put, this is the image and likeness of God. The Father is the soul of God as we read in 1 Cor 15. He is the very "being" of God that even His Son is subject to. 1 Cor 15 & Gen 2 go twogether. God >>> Body, Spirit & Soul Man >>> Body, Spirit & Soul Likeness & Image of God God teaches of Himself - And who He is - in the creation of Adam. Gen 2:7 is not JUST about Adam - It is about who God is. We can understand God better this way - because we somewhat understand ourselves.

[@SeraphsWitness]

@@cjnav7832 That certainly doesn't seem simpler.

[@1rgam3r]

I would LOVE to hear the Dr.’s unpacking of “let” in “let there be light”!

[@Panhorst]

God bless you brother in Christ. Thanks for all you do for the church. Happy Thanksgiving. 🦃

[@lilagood1963]

Thy will be done On earth as it is in Heaven

[@CoreyBooth33]

Marduk split earth & heaven into 2.

[@JoshWashington]

'Let us create humankind AS our image'. Excellent.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

No, Christ is God's image, humankind are created "in"/after His image. God is a Triune Godhead Christ, Three in One has his own throne that the Father gave Him. Also: We are not God's Idol, that os a gnostic statement

[@abashedsanctimony154]

It refers to the context of creating something outside but still *within* a capacity that is perfectly reflective of Who create it. God has Free will, man has free will God changes His mind, man changes His mind God Can redeem fallen creatures He made, man can be redeemed as a creature that once had a relationship with God in the Garden. satan did not have a relationship with God.

[@markohakkola5180]

Except the Hebrew doesn't read that way. It's: in our image, as our likeness. There are different prepositions. But the upshot remains the same. There is a status. And there are clear functions and responsibilities that come with that status. And male and female are also separate but ONE.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

@@markohakkola5180 True the idea is that we were created after the original image. Christ is the Only image. We are " *a* " likeness of Him. Not " *the* " likeness of God. But the likeness of Christ. Actually, Christ's spirit is like God's spirit, and God said never claim to be like God or above God. That would be making an idolatrous image of ourselves, which is what this pseudo-scholar is doing. Also there aren't two powers in Heaven, there are Three. And Christ's original form is like the Father's , His image is, eyes of Fire, tongue of fire, Brass feet, hair white like wool. Kind of reminding of a Lamb with Seven eyes, and horns. Christ's Human form is like a Man. Because that is how most people see God as. But it also says God has jewels and fiery appearance of jasper and carnelian.

[@abashedsanctimony154]

@Nell Lyon Christ is the image of God. He is everything that God intends. So yes He is Life, but He is Holy. He is Perfect. He is Blameless, He is the Bright Morning star (the one that was not created, and the God that did not fall from Heaven. He is also the One who suffered for those who persecuted Him. So you can say He is Humility, the essence of Love. Someone who gives Himself without reciprocate return. It's hard to explain God , basically.

[@equin2801]

Excellent analogy that Dr Heiser uses of “let us have some pizza”, to explain Genesis 11: 5-7! Brilliant, I get it now!

[@kiwisaram9373]

What then did God say before He created the heavenly host?

[@cynnie2876]

@@kiwisaram9373 You should ask Him

[@DanielApologetics]

What a scholar this man is!

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

So Heiser is using pro-abortion, dehumanizing language to describe a developing baby (a multicellular thing), the same growth stages the Logos made flesh experienced in the womb, and mouths the words of the critics that “you Christians are crazy” if you think otherwise, and offers no rebut therefore implicitly implying that he agrees with them. And people STILL think this guy ISN’T a Wolf in sheeps’ garb??? *WOW*

[@justjosie8963]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed I listened again ALL the way through and he clearly states he opposes that view. So perhaps you can at least listen to the whole thing, and if something sounds off to you, listen again.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Explicitly he says he opposes it, while implicitly agreeing with it by making the case for the opposition without rebutting it. It’s a strategic sneak attack he always uses. Just offering a weak “i oppose that” doesn’t cut it. He always does this, for instance elsewhere after making an argument against the reliability of prophecy (concluding it is arbitrarily understood and we shouldn’t try to understand, which is the opposite of what Peter said) he just counters with weak lip service like “but i believe it because the apostles believed it,” which isn’t a convincing defense. It’s an unmistakable method of attack he deploys over and over which is why I’m amazed at his fans who cannot or will not see him for the wolf posing as a sheep.

[@547mtal]

this blew my mind. woah. thank you so much for this.

[@kurakuson]

Interesting. Just! when I thought I was begining to understand some things, then, I come to realize I don't know squat. What a waste of over 40 yrs.

[@kurakuson]

@@ФЯЮИ Rev 9?

[@kurakuson]

@@ФЯЮИ Wow!

[@iamwhoyousayiam6773]

@@ФЯЮИ Jesus died for our sins, past present and future! Keep praying

[@thetruthchannel349]

@@velkyn1 *THIS IS A GOOGLE EMPLOYEE FRAUD ASSIGNED to THIS CHANNEL. SCREENSHOT his ACCOUNT, HIS COMMENTS and SEND THEM to SENATOR HAWLEYS OFFICE*

[@alexacabrera85]

I had to watch this video two times to get the point of what Dr. Heisser was explaining about the image of God and what can it mean, I´ve never thought about it with much dept unitl now.

[@kevinlucas9905]

5:57 I am glad I reached the same conclusion this is a great clip.

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

God in Hebrew is Elohim (plural) a collective noun like the word family - one family, many members (like Paul’s example of one body, many members). One in Hebrew is Echad, which doesn’t simply mean one in number, but also in unity or purpose - the first echad in scripture describes night and day as echad, one day. Ruach hakodesh, the holy spirit is like water that can fill many vessels and still be echad, one spirit.

[@LionMentality1982]

As above, so Below. The Occult World has hijacked this saying, but as it relates to "Image and Status" it's Spot on. God wanted Humans and Angels to direct all Worship and Reverence to him. As we all are aware this occurred for a while, until Rebellions and other evil deeds happened.

[@martinmartin1363]

11:5 Descendit autem Dominus ut videret civitatem et turrim, quam ædificabant filii Adam, 11:5 Then the Lord descended to see the city and the tower, which the sons of Adam were building. 11:6 et dixit: Ecce, unus est populus, et unum labium omnibus: cœperuntque hoc facere, nec desistent a cogitationibus suis, donec eas opere compleant. 11:6 And he said: “Behold, the people are united, and all have one tongue. And since they have begun to do this, they will not desist from their plans, until they have completed their work. 11:7 Venite igitur, descendamus, et confundamus ibi linguam eorum, ut non audiat unusquisque vocem proximi sui. 11:7 Therefore, come, let us descend, and in that place confound their tongue, so that they may not listen, each one to the voice of his neighbor.” 11:8 Atque ita divisit eos Dominus ex illo loco in universas terras, et cessaverunt ædificare civitatem. 11:8 And so the Lord divided them from that place into all the lands, and they ceased to build the city. YHWH is both visible and invisible and that’s what the early Jews believed YH means God singular and WH means God plural, genesis is written in poetic form so mere children may understand this, and you see these throughout the bible

[@markohakkola5180]

Except the Hebrew doesn't read that way. It's: in our image, as our likeness. There are different prepositions. But the upshot remains the same. There is a status. And there are clear functions and responsibilities that come with that status. Let them rule.... And male and female are also separate but were created and become ONE. Echad. Shalom.

[@FromValkyrie]

The "us" isn't the divine council or the Trinity. It's the second person of the Trinity in a multipersonal form. The same way he appeared as three men to Abraham. As two angels to Lot, and as four angels in Zechariah. It's one person of the Trinity exhibiting his multiple forms.

[@MsBaztastic]

Where does it state that angels were made in the image of God? They are called the sons of God, but at what point is it clearly stated that they bear his image, especially considering there are angelic beings with animalistic forms? Aren't we assuming this? And if they bear his image, then why are we the co-heirs who shall rule and reign with him and judge the angels? Is our image better or different in some way than theirs?

[@judyshiflett3123]

Maybe when Jesus said we would be like the angels in heaven ? Just asking

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

If the Holy Spirit fills the heavenly host with the Father as the head and His unique Son as His leader (like a king and his firstborn prince head of the ministers) then there’s your “trinity” united as one in spirit and mind with different roles, like a household united under the family name of the Father.

[@dustinellerbe4125]

Does everyone forget about the hosts in heaven that were created before man? The sons of god, the angels, etc

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

And on earth believers as the body of Christ is given the Holy Spirit just as it dwelled in the manmade temples before, both being created. The Holy Spirit is eternal, not necessarily the vessels it inhabits.

[@dustinellerbe4125]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed is the spirit a separate entity than the Father?

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

No they are united, one spirit in marriage as reflected in the fleshly marriage of husband and wife who become one flesh who were created in His image. Edit: the be fair, the word entity has many different meanings and is not really a scriptural term - could you rephrase using biblical terms?

[@dustinellerbe4125]

@@AllOtherNamesUsed marriage is 2 individuals making a team. One team. Not one human entity. God is one. The Holy Spirit is one. That makes 2. Not one. Unless you are saying God has a part of himself that he can take out of himself and calls it someone else but its really not.

[@miaissau4176]

"Us" in the second creation, dont it refer to the elohim (sons of heaven) in Job 38:7?

[@liftyohands3795]

@Dr. Michael S. Heiser Great video. Question. If God was talking to the heavenly host and not the trinity, would you say Jesus(The Word) was existent in eternal as the Word of God and not as a “separate person” until he came down to earth?

[@AllOtherNamesUsed]

Heavenly host vs trinity is a false dialectic. The heavenly host is filled with the Holy Spirit and works through them in accordance to the will of the Father. This isn’t rocket science.

[@snb2186]

Guys it's simply a misunderstood verse people will interpret it in different ways, let's not wast too much time going back and forth, weather it is the heavenly host or the trinity, it dosent help our salvation in any way...let's focus(especially now)on preaching the gospel to lost souls and working on our salvation, with fear and trembling.

[@introverdant]

I'd like an answer to that too.

[@cjnav7832]

He can't answer that. He's shagging fly balls in left field

[@billvigus3719]

If Jesus was eternally the Son then he was always a separate person. He just didn't have a human nature until the incarnation.

[@donaldboomer6313]

That was a medieval Rabbinical explanation to counter Christian interpretation. They use the reference in Job to justify the presence of angels but in Job I. e. , the sons of God (angels) were never involved in God’s exclusive power to create or be involved in anyway except to cheer. The Genesis Hebrew does strongly suggest the Trinity or at the least two. Many other Genesis passages confirm this also in the Hebrew usage.

[@TuRantheMan]

Tee is most def explains The Words “GOD IS EVERYTHING” Everything is him

[@theunknownpreacher9833]

So close but without the all the puzzle pieces this makes sense. Try again Dr.

[@williamthrasher1380]

A question for Dr. Michael Heiser, perhaps you have expressed your opinion about the Cherokee Bat Creek Stone that was found during an excavation project for the Smithsonian's Mound Survey project that was work done in Eastern Tennessee in the year of 1889. Here is a quote written by J. Huston McCulloch that was published in September 2010, “Hebrew scholar and archaeologist Robert Stieglitz (1976) confirmed Gordon's reading of the longer word, and identifed the second letter of the shorter word as a qoph. Mertz (1964) herself had first proposed that the first letter is a (reversed) resh. The main line would then read RQ , LYHWD[M], i.e. "Only for Judea," or "Only for the Judeans" if the broken letter is included.” Thank you.

[@DRMSH]

Vean también este video con Subtítulos en Español en nuestro canal de habla hispana kzbin.info/www/bejne/ip2XYmavgLmceMk

[@rooker5]

Isn’t the one who comes down in Genesis a pre-carnate Christ? Angel of the Lord?

[@wendyjomendy]

Everyone is not representation of God

[@ArtofRobinMitchell]

clearly u are not a believer.... JESUS IS THE FATHER ISAIAH 9:6 THE SON IS THE FATHER....

[@CenturianCornelious]

Interesting. This view would invalidate the documentary hypothesis. Under the documentary hypothesis, the changes from plurality to singularity and back are accounted for by the splicing together of multiple documents from varied sects. (Which disturbs the faith of some but never did mine.) What Heiser is saying may make more sense.

[@markschultz1606]

I see it as both... Qualities: the depth of emotions we have and the underlying character within a person pursuing righteousness. Status: being made in His image, means we must treat one another as though we were dealing with God Himself. Kinda hard to abuse another with a cognitive anchor in place.

[@tykarmz5675]

I’m a little bit confused, does Michael believe in the trinity or not? Can someone clarify for me please

[@father_of_the_funk]

I started listening to Michael just recently so I am not completely certain about all of his theological beliefs, but he is a Trinitarian. Now, what his exact definition of what the trinity is I do not know. However, I have heard him speak about how the trinity can be found in the old testament, as well as reference books that make that case. Also, to point something out in this video that you may have missed, the interviewer mentioned that he was a trinitarian. Then Michael goes on to explain how a specific part of the tower of babel story would not make sense with a trinitarian veiw of God, because the verse would be splitting God up 1:37 ( weather you agree with this analysis is beside the point). All he is explaining in this video is that those specific verses with the plural "us" in them, are not teaching the trinity. However, he not saying there is no trinity or that the Bible does not teach the trinity. Hope that helps.

[@hollowpoint16]

Good luck figuring this guy out. He's always all over the place. I looked him up because I was watching Skywatch with Derek and Sharon Gilbert who referenced him as being so interesting. I just think he's full of himself and full of "it".

[@DRMSH]

That's why I have a webpage drmsh.com

[@ricardovera116]

@@hollowpoint16 wow. What makes him so full of “it” to you?

[@marcialawrence7512]

Talking about 'the Heavenly Host' is it preposterous to think that there is a Heavenly mother among them? It is thought by some that God never mentions her for fear that we would behave offensively towards her.

[@lloydsherman8743]

After reading some of Dr.Heiser's writing and listening to this presentation several times, contemplating what he is saying, it's frustrating for me to listen to the interviewer attempting to interact. He is clumsy at his efforts trying to insert himself into the conversation. Not that he is a bad person but intellectually, he is out classed. I would probably not do any better hearing this for the first time. Sometimes it's better to just shut up. Great material though.

[@DRMSH]

Don't forget to attend today's WEBINAR, March 21, at 8:00 p.m. (ET) on this KZbin Channel THERE WILL BE A SPECIAL LOGOS DISCOUNT FOR WEBINAR ATTENDEES - BEST PRICE OF THE YEAR. Simulcast: Facebook: facebook.com/DRMSHPhD Don't forget to join the DIVINE COUNCIL WORLDVIEW - Bible Discussion Group facebook.com/groups/393777644878175

[@justjosie8963]

I'm so thankful for Dr. Heiser!

[@archam777]

The reason we are Gods image, is because that is what Christ came as. All stages of human life, we reflect the image in the womb because Christ was still human and God as a few cells in Marys stomach. He is/was the image through all stages of life.....not just at a certain point. He couldve came as a Cherib or Seraph, angels or an animal, if He wanted to. But He didnt, he came and lived the fullness of what it was to be a human being at all stages of life. Therefore our "image" is maintained throughout all stages of life. However, I see where Dr. Heiser is coming from.

[@sivartus6692]

The historic Christian understanding is that humans have a rational nature not quality necessarily, it’s a nature that instantiates rationality or you could say actualizes the quality of rationality over time in one’s life. The nature itself is intrinsic to the subject at all times in their life. Heiser is very wrong on this point, we’re evaluating/describing worth based on nature not a contingent quality.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

Popularity of a view or how long something has been held doesn’t say anything about its truthfulness. We’re just uncovering ancient near eastern documents so we shouldn’t expect to understand the passage if we don’t understand the context. Heiser briefly mentions it but this “imaging” is the same thing that the other cultures did by making an idol at the end of their temple inauguration for God’s cosmic temple(which is what Genesis describes). The idol serves as an image for the god. Even if it is logically consistent, this “rational nature” idea ignores the context of Genesis 1, doesn’t fit well at all with Jesus being the full image of God, and seems quite arbitrary(why would God care to mention that we have rational nature? There are many other “natures” that humans have but not the other animals.)

[@sivartus6692]

​@@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou The thing is I'm not addressing the Near Eastern cultural context/concept here. That could be true at the same time as what I'm saying, I have no problem with it. It's just that he so severely misunderstands what Saints have meant by "rational nature" that it's really annoying when he shoots the idea down in such a dismissing fashion is all.

[@WhatYourPastorDidntTellYou]

@@sivartus6692 I don’t think it is charitable to say he dismisses it too easily. It’s possible he just doesn’t find the whole “rational nature” thing convincing. At the same time, his view of Genesis is very convincing(to many people that I’ve noticed) so even if having a “rational nature” was logically consistent, he might dismiss it because he thinksthe context of Genesis points to a much better view.

[@lw216316]

Michael makes a good case for letting go of the Trinity definition for the "us".

[@jlupus8804]

I know discussing the soul is not mainstream, but maybe we do need to be bring that language back into politics: if a woman, or man, degrades the soul of a child (or any age, unborn or not) by killing it, then they in turn say their own soul is of no value. And this is why God is written into the constitution in the first place: because if humans declare the rights of other humans, than its humans that can take them away; that’s why ethically even atheists agree: we NEED God to hold power in our constitution, away from the hands of wicked men.

[@davidjohnston710]

When “Let US make man in our own image” was written, the writer had not yet experienced Jesus as a human form, nor known the presence of the Holy Spirit as at Pentecost - so, the writer was not alluding to the “Trinity”, a concept that developed after Jesus’ appearance on earth. However, the writer is aware that God exists with a multitude of other “ruling” authorities (Angels, a Counsel of other heavenly hosts also created beings) and is announcing His intention to create a ruling authority on earth - the keepers of the garden on earth, so to speak. The entire context of the surrounding scripture makes it clear that man had a superior position to the rest of creation as stewards of it. “Be fruitful and multiply ....”, “have dominion over every living thing ....”, etc. So, I believe that Mr. Heiser may have it right about the use of the Plural noun used for “US”, and that the intent of the writing is to convey our “status” (position of authority), and our function as stewards of earth’s creations. Part of the function of Genesis is to attribute the work of creation to the one God of their monotheistic understanding, something that would distinguish them from the surrounding nations and cultures, especially coming out in the exile from the polytheistic culture of Egypt. Essentially, a monotheistic position helped to build an internal cohesion (nationalism) for the Hebrews. The whole story sets them up for their position and purpose. It is ontology.

[@kaylenehousego8929]

So love your work Michael. Love n blessings from Sydney Australia.

[@TheAB2YZ]

@ Dr.Michael S.Heiser, do you have any videos on Genesis 1 and 2? As in I clearly see one primary difference when everything in ch.1 is 'created' whereas in ch.2, God 'forms' man. And then in Ch.1 we see He gave mankind to rule over all but in ch.2, He formed man to till the land and then formed animals but still man didn't have the 'right companion' hence formed woman. So on and so forth there are quite a few differences. Would you have any comments on these?

[@KiKi-tf8rv]

Let US make man in OUR image. This can only refer to Triune God Himself. This cannot be an inclusion of the created heavenly beings. We are not made in the image of angels. Angels were not made in the image of God, if they were they would have a kinsman redeemer. Humanity is the only being with a kinsman Redeemer. And since God cannot change, and Jesus came to earth as a man, He came as the image He already was. Being made in God’s image is SO much more than status or quality. I don’t think we will fully comprehend the literal reality of it this side of Heaven. Saying that God does not need to speak to Himself therefore He wasn’t speaking to Himself, goes against what we’re told in Scripture. Jesus, with the Holy Spirit remaining on Him, often prayed alone to the Father. In the Beginning when there was no one else to speak to, He spoke the world into existence.

[@mueezadam8438]

I disagree with the quality argument as well but the way you use status to understand the moral ramifications of abortion doesn’t generalize to other situations involving a human life. In mosaic law the act of killing in and of itself isn’t a sin whether it’s as a punitive measure or present in the case to be discussed. The circumstances are what determine the verdict. If human life is given value as a status then the act of murder is _never_ permissible, even when acting out of self-defence.

[@TheRegimentalscot]

The old Testament also differentiates very clearly between Murder and Killing. Murder is killing for personal gain and profit. Killing, was at times justified under certain circumstances such as self defense, punishment for crimes against society, and in defensive wars of protection.

[@maalat]

In some cultures, a person will say, WE, as a way of including, not excluding... after all, he created Jesus, the angels as many as the stars in the universe...

[@kukakbear5618]

I find it interesting when people claim the unsaved ARE the image and glory of God but the saved who reflect the glory of the Lord must be transformed into His image.

[@christaylor5659]

Dr David Bernard is insane on this topic! The very best

[@martinmartin1363]

there are no vowels actually written in the Torah, it is not accurate to say that the Torah has no vowels. Although the vowels, or nekudot, were never actually marked in the Torah itself, the nekudot are of divine origin just as the letters are. The nekudot were given by G‑d to Moses on Mount Sinai and were passed down orally from leader to leader as part of the Oral Torah, until they reached Ezra the Scribe, who revealed and taught them to the Jewish nation. Up until that point, Hebrew was never written down with vowels.1 As with many early Semitic alphabets, one who is fluent in Hebrew can, for the most part, read it without vowels, which is why even nowadays the overwhelming majority of Hebrew literature is written without vowels. On a simple level, the reason for this is because, unlike English, most Hebrew words are comprised of triconsonantal roots. Words with the same consonants are usually related, and differ only in how they’re inflected for tense and so forth. At the same time, there are also many words in the Torah whose meanings can change based on the vowels. And it is for this reason that an oral tradition was needed to tell us exactly how the words are to be pronounced. One classic example is the prohibition of eating milk and meat together, which is derived from the verse לֹא תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי בַּחֲלֵב אִמּוֹ⁠-universally translated as “You shall not cook a kid in its mother’s milk.”2 Now, the Hebrew word for “milk,” חֲלֵב (chaleiv) or חָלָב (chalav), has the exact same letters as the Hebrew word for “fat,” חֵלֶב (cheilev), the only difference being the vowels. So without the Oral Torah, we might mistakenly believe that we are prohibited to eat meat with fat.3 This, of course, leads us back to our original question: If there are ambiguous words, why leave the vowels to the Oral Torah? Why not have them written in the Torah itself? The Power of Ambiguity The rabbis explain that it is precisely because of this possible ambiguity that the vowels aren’t written into the actual text. The ambiguity allows us to derive multiple layers of meaning from the same written text.4 For example, by contrasting the way in which a word is actually vocalized (called in the Talmud mikra) with other possible ways of pronouncing the same word (called masoret), the rabbis derive many laws of the Torah. For G‑d’s wisdom (a.k.a. His Torah) is infinite, and upon rearranging the vowels, new dimensions are revealed.5 It is no wonder then that the letters are compared to the body and the nekudot to the soul.6 Like the body, the letters are tangible and physical. But the nekudot, while hidden, are what give them life.

[@richlane5132]

Please explain the words in Jeremiah 1:5.....before you were knitted in your mothets womb, I knew you...and how this doesn't impact your version that the zygote in the womb is not a person...thank you

[@1rgam3r]

I get the “ let us go” part but why does God continue by saying “our” image? He isn’t imparting anything of the host to us.

[@frankmckinley1254]

Only Adam was created the rest of us are born there are some difference there. Not every human is wheat sadly some are tares, see Matthew's letter.

[@cjnav7832]

We are all God's creation. Don't make this harder than it is. Yes, Adam didn't have a belly button and we do - but we are most certainly God's creation. And technically,. Adam is what God 'made,' not "created". As you read the definition of "To create", it is to "speak". Where to "make" is to make and mold from what has been created and spoken into existence. There is actually a difference btwn "to create" and "to make" However, at the end of the day - we are all His creation, as the Bible says.

[@hanzosiku]

what the hell man?

[@SirRatiocination]

The theophany of God can talk about the God who is not in the theophany as separate. He does this in the tower of Babylon passage, which was mentioned. He also did this in the Sodom and Gomorrah story as well as nearly every time the angel of the Lord appears if you consider that to be a theophany. Moreover, just because God speaks in the text for our sake because that is how we process information, this literary device doesn't mean God literally opens some physical mouth and projects words to an audience. Obviously, as God his thoughts are immediately and eternally known to the other persons of the trinity. In order for the reader to understand God's thoughts, he has to speak them. It's like how Jesus explicitly said in his prayers that he knows The Father is always listening to him, but for the sake of those around him he spoke what he wanted to say to God. The reasons supposedly disproving the pluralized grammar in Genesis being a reference to trinity do not hold water

[@mikefaumuina3275]

The angelic realm are created spirits and therefore do not share God’s image. Angels were not created in the image of God, only man has that distinction. Therefore the circular reasoning away of Genesis 1 is unworthy scholarship.

[@ALLHEART_]

I didn't really hear any good reason why the "Let Us..." language can't be a reference to the Trinity. I like and agree with a lot of Dr. Heiser's work, but whenever he talks on this topic his objections always seem pretty weak. " *LORD* " does not need to always be a reference to the Trinity as a whole; it can be a reference to any one of the Divine Persons, or all three of Them. One of Them can tell the Others, "Let Us go down...", etc. If you don't think it is a reference to the Trinity, you end up with problems. "Let Us make man in Our Image and according to Our Likeness." - the divine council, the heavenly host, did not make man - only God did. And, no, Dr. Heiser's example where a father says to his children, "Let's go get pizza", but only he literally, physically goes to get the pizza, is not a valid analogy - the Bible never uses the "Let us" language in contexts where only one party within the "us" is doing the action, but rather only in contexts where all parties are participating in whatever action is at hand. As for the question of "Why would God [presumably He means the Father here] need to make an announcement to the other Members of the Trinity? They didn't learn anything.", etc., the answer is simple: God is condenscending to our level in the Scripture so as to express what went on in the creation, thus God expresses the beginning of God's creation of man with a statement of divine intent to do so, so as to make a narrative that we can understand.

[@jogillum3971]

But if he says “in our image” that means the heavenly hosts are also in the image of God.

[@MrRomka404]

No it's stated only about humanity, not animals or angels (read Hebrews)

[@fraserkyle4880]

of course the heavenly host are imagers, why is that surprising. We serve god here, they do it there. Some rebel in both realms, that’s autonomy/free will.

[@fraserkyle4880]

@@MrRomka404 so it is stated, but it does not negate that other fact, it is just not addressed in Hebrews necessarily.

[@MrRomka404]

@@fraserkyle4880 in that case, everything is created in His image and at that point why state the obvious, why point it out? The image of God is more then just the face value of the words, we don't even really have a pin point description/definition for it. It's something akin to a messenger (even that is lacking), or a representative. The idea of 'the image of God' is really really heavy theologically, so to say that everyone who's created by God is 'in His image' is really missing the point.

[@nmbr1son64]

No, they're servants. God commands them and they obey. He doesn't explain anything to them. Jesus said the servant doesn't know what his master does, but I have revealed all things to you (pl.). He called His disciples friends.

[@livinlattes]

Ponder the fact that Adam was created as a full grown man. Think of Yahshua as a full grown man in that the NT tells us that He was slain before the foundations of the earth. Developmental growth from the inception to adulthood of a human could not represent our ability to do Godlike things.

[@jameswoodard4304]

I don't know. That "our image" seems a little iffy in that context. On the question of why the Father would talk to the other members of the Trinity, that is just a silly argument. Christ prayed to, was spoken to by, was sent by, glorified, and was glorified by, the Father. The Spirit makes intercession for us to the Father by the power of the Son. There has always been inter-communication within the Godhead. Humans talk to themselves all the time. Perhaps the plural is merely a representation of God communing with Himself over what He was about to do, in an ultimate version of when I say, "Okay, James, this is what's going to happen..." Making "us/our" refer to the Heavenly Host, even if we disregard the creation verbs because they are singular, makes it appear that we are made in/as the image of the Heavenly Ministers, rather than the Most High alone. Even taken positionally rather than qualitatively, this seems troubling theologically. We are not made in/as the image of angels, yet how would we show that this means anything else if we accept the Heavenly Host as the referent of these pronouns?

[@carmennooner2027]

I didn't fully comprehend all of the analogies given in the video. I will have to listen to it at least once more, after I finish my pizza!

[@fohunter12345]

Mind = Blown

[@mattrockjm]

Ok ..so where the rub comes in , in some cases I’ve heard people say For gen..1-26 is the word (god ) Small g looked up mean Elohim Not The Lord God but gods.... Created man before Adam /Eve.. There seems not to be a problem with Adam/eve that I hear off.. Only what I’ve just stated... I don’t quite believe this However it is something to go over to confirm the truth ... thx God Bless

[@ionitacatalinionut5324]

i love GOD and i swear a lot that doesn't mean i am not a christian :))

[@jasongabrielschulte7811]

Draw a big circle on a piece of paper. Then inside that circle draw a bunch of other little circles and a circle in the center. The one is the many is the man that is the one. All of them have potential to be just like the big circle, but not be the big circle. Im an outside the box believer in Christ so hope I dont offend anyone. The big circle is God the father, the little circles are the holy spirit and the center or nucleus like would be Christ connecting all things. And if you think of our image , free thinking, abstract thinking, thinking beyond coded rules such as a bee is programmed to do what it does, we are the us in Genisis, our image. All of us and Jesus, consciousness. Just a thought.

[@MrHwaynefair]

Being made in the image of God is neither (simply) quality or status: it is ontological, defining our nature and being. Among the implicit places Paul alluded to it, Romans 5 stands out: Adam, the”type” (and the remainder of his fallen, helpless race) are made after the pattern of Christ, the Archetype. He IS the express image of God - and (as many of the fathers understood) that is the image after which we are all made. Paul’s understanding is not based on a historical-critical method, but on seeing all in the OT as (according to Jesus) speaking of Christ. You cannot arrive at this hidden truth through scholarship- but only by encountering the Risen Savior who will open our eyes, and cause our hearts to burn within us….

[@dongee6351]

It gets to a point with some where reality takes a back seat..

[@joemichener2337]

Are we still made in the image of God after we die?

[@hermenutic]

Excellent explanation.

[@Truthseeker-2023DA]

I don’t understand why GOD would tell His created angels, “let us make man in our own image” when exclusively He is the only One can create anything. I don’t buy that GOD was talking to the angels but was perhaps conversing with the council of His own will within the trinity. Apparently Dr. Heiser doesn’t know how the trinity is to be truly explained. If the angels are also made in the image of GOD & are His Heavenly children (which Dr. Heiser is suggesting) then humans are not unique. If that were the case, we would be second class children of GOD and not the first born. We are made of clay and the breath of GOD. In truth, we are truly unique and loved more than the angels. I believe that GOD is triune and is still One who is the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit and can be in heaven and earth and in us at the same time yet still be one and it’s seems that no one can comprehend how He is in all of Christendom.

[@J-PLeigh8409]

Is there a connection w/ Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, etc. To glorify God by thought, word, & deed. As well as called to salvation in Christ, but also to walk in love, for God & eachother, hence the 2 great Commandments of Jesus

[@Truthseeker-2023DA]

So is Dr. Heiser saying that GOD told the angelic beings that He created to help create man in His Image and in their image which is of a Spiritual essence? I can’t understand why GOD would ask His created beings to make man in their image unless GOD had made the angels in His image prior to making man and why would He want to make man if He had the angels created in His likeness already?

[@ReadersOfTheApocalypse]

Everything was made by the word (Jesus). No angels involved. Almost sounds like blasphemy... Angels only watched and cheered according to Job.

[@sonofode902]

It is both quality and status. Status comes after Quality sir. Can strong man known (status) as strong man before he shows prove his strength?

[@tinahale9252]

When I was much younger I would? Those verses that are plural and 27 years later I was ready for the answer

[@mattbugg4568]

Well the lords prayer is also plurel because the story being told is not from one author it is an oral tradition. So this would be told from the teachers to the puples in the oral tradition. So words of God would be singular where the actual teachings and prayers would be plural.

[@mattbugg4568]

You might be onto something with the same hear as in heaven thing, its a journey or quest for supernatural. Some things are easy like understanding faith, other things are alot more complex there is endless teachings in the Bible that focus on different aspects of each parable also different levels of things like the wine press of God, the trees in genesis, the water of life, the bread of life, then there is different levels of hidden teachings like ecclesiastis, kabbalah, sign of johna, principalities of power, etc.. after you have a grasp of some of them on one level another level opens up that you were unaware even existed before. The Bible is like a compendium of how the mind and body and soul work. You never figure it all out but you get to a place where you understand that you will never figure it all out thats the fun part. Its something you can work on forever, when you wrap your head around that you figure out what heaven is about its in the book, warfair gardens banquets feast famine watching praying death life coming back from the dead internal work supernatural powers moving things with gods power moving planets seas making it rain burning hail etc.. on and on forever. That what heaven will be like the rules are made by God heaven has parts and he'll has parts and as a Christian you overcome hell and death through salvation for your sins and can go anywhere in the afterlife. Its about becoming comfortable with the possibility that nothing can hurt you in the afterlife if you belive in Jesus. He went before and prepared for us a way. His life had all the elements of the entire bibles work in it and his sacrifice for us was even one of the elements. And his resurrection and gift of salvation was the culmination of the sprit of God on earth. Thats the good news. And what everyone saw that wrote it down for later people was that the spirit of God worked through him to teach the people of heaven and the afterlife how to get there and the negation of the wages of sin is death which was the curse of the old testament. Life is a short hop where we get to figure this out. We have eternity to work on it.

[@stephenmichaels6682]

According to our apostle paul’s ministry in The King James Bible,we are only saved by believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross,spilled His Blood for all of our sins,was buried and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ Spilled Blood is what saves you when you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.

[@rapturewalk]

Whoa this is radically awesome 👌

[@tongakhan230]

Analogies can show anything. Not necessarily the truth.

[@duaneelsbree3460]

Brain function does not define being human. Had this discussion with a physicist. It did not go well for him. It ended with him declaring me a worm and he was a glow worm. Surprised me, yet saddened me.

[@rocketmanshawn]

The Us is the Trinity. It's no more anachronistic to read Trinity into Genesis 1:26 than it is to read pizza into the text. The analogy isn't very good. Though I do agree on the imaging being a status.

[@jeffgray6291]

Maybe because we are a spiritual being, we are created in His image as a spirit being.

[@jerssabino5580]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... -Genesis 1:26 KJV Canon to: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. -John 1:1‭-‬4 KJV Please understand this that scripture interprets scriptures. The "Us" in the Genesis is found in John 1:1. The explanation is that in the beginning was the Word (Jesus/ Yeshua/The Son) and the Word(Jesus/Yeshua/The Son) was with God(The Father/The Almighty God), and the Word(Jesus/Yeshua/The Son) was God(Jesus/Yeshua/The Son is God literally because He is the SON of God). Common sense! If my father is a human, I also a human, so another logic example is that If I have a Father that is a God, I am also inheriting the characteristics of my father being a God. And further explanation is when you read the book of John, first chapter verses 2-4, it is clear that In the beginning the purpose of creating the heavens and the earth and whatever it is, it is because of Jesus/Yeshua/The Son of God! So don't add or remove or speculate some teachings, when the answer is found also in the bible, just a reminder and addition to all. I hope this will help :')

[@Chris85.]

So God created us in heavenly hosts likeness too? Thats weird to believe we are created in the likeness of someone other than God himself.

[@RestoringReality]

Ha! I knew it! We are the idols! What I am getting at here is this... It is Not possible to consume the dead flesh of an animal without first having sacrificed it. We are not even allowed to eat road kill. Therefore, the only way it is possible to eat dead flesh is to first sacrifice it to idols! Jesus was a vegetarian according to Clement, Peter and James and so therefore so am I. Paul taught people that it was okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols if their conscience was okay with it because do as thou wilt was the whole of the law according to Paul.

[@dw3403]

Us means mind soul and spirit. They all line up and agree but are one. Father is the mind, Jesus the word made flesh came for the fathers heart for out of the heart do we speak and the spirit is his being. Just as he keeps trying to tell us to stop walking by this earthly flesh that is temporary, walk by the spirit. Which is in agreement with his word.

[@rep3e4]

Great stuff

[@carminefragione4710]

You can be an Adam, the status of "Image of God" but if you do not have cleanness, since you know not the meaning of clean and unclean, then you cannot serve in the House of God to approach the Lord ( Ezekiel 44) then you cannot be as the Messiah a Priestly Son of Zadok, a clean offering to enter the House of the Lord to serve Him in an intimate way. So Jesus had the nature of Adam , which is a Status , like a man is more than an Ox, but the Ox is a "clean animal" and a Man is unclean from his mother's womb. Needing to be cleaned with hyssop. So the issue here is not the flesh ,in answering the status or quality of being God. You must be CLEAN, and that is a QUALITY that separates the common man from Jesus Christ. But by Grace ,the Lord Jesus for hire comes to clean the people , through His Blood and the Water, making an exchange of a unclean man for a clean offering, like a Ram. So Jesus had two natures, we are human, but we have not had the clean nature of quality to make us an efficient cause to bring about miracles and summon God to do our deeds. Jesus had the cleanness to summon the Father to do miracle deeds, for he had never sinned. So I would say that we have a status of being Adam , "Humanity" . "Mankind". but we don't have naturally the cleanness that a Virgin First Born Son of God has from conception and sustains all his mortal life, because he has not sinned and is not fallen from the Good Grace of God who can do miracles as requested. So Jesus had a quality we do not have, perhaps Adam had it first and we never obtained this quality of cleanness, called "TREE OF LIFE". So purity and cleanness means no DECAY , there is noting decadent or sick or ailing or destroying in the form of the body we would have lived in. But we have decay , but God did not suffer His Holy One to see "Decay" according to the Psalms. Jesus was tempted but never sinned, he never lost the perfect connection to the authority and power of God, which we can only imagine . So David said in the Psalms 51 " Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me" and then David says to the Lord " Cleanse me with Hyssop , and I will be clean; wash me and I will be whiter than snow" That appearance of being whiter than snow seems to correlate to the Transfiguration on the Mount , by Jesus who turned from a flesh appearance to a blinding white light apparition. So we don't have that blinding white light in us yet, maybe Adam had it, but we don't and so we do not yet have the quality of existence like God to SHINE, but Jesus had both the nature of the flesh and the SHINING. Jesus was both man and God.

[@randykuhns4515]

You presume the cell cluster doesn't commune with God,..

[@Spokenwisdom1]

How else would it form if not for God for as the scripture says, “of our selves we can do nothing.”

[@Eklegomai]

Beautiful explanation but still don’t understand why he believes in trinity. Trinity is a false doctrine. The singular in genesis like he explained proves it enough. Jesus

[@frederickanderson1860]

The heavenly council are angels not humans. So it cannot be correct,we not like cherubim. In genesis chapter 3 : 22 behold man has become as one of us,to know good and evil. " That clarifies its not the cherubims or heavenly host As heiser has wrongly stated.

[@howardpowell7664]

Awesome

[@slimsammyone]

What is the book mentioned in this video?