Love Is Blind - Season 5 - #33 - (Izzy's Lost and Found) - Therapist Reacts

[@SF-kc6zv]

The flip side to the woman typically getting the credit for a tidy or well-designed home is that women are also typically the one judged and blamed for a messy home. If there is a woman in the house, the responsibility for the state of the home is assumed to be hers. It’s a form of domestic labor and therefore is expected of women.

[@joannawrzelikowska3273]

This

[@7ScarletRoses]

Yes! Research also shows that people (both women and men) judge a home to be more messy when they are told a woman lives there, as opposed when they are told a man lives there

[@speakyrtruth]

Exactly!

[@kristinnncat]

Yes! And I think a lot of women on these shows (and in real life) enter a man's home and immediately sense that they will end up doing most of the domestic labor. You see a similar reaction from Lydia about Milton, and then we later hear that one of Milton's favorite things about their relationship is that Lydia cleans.. So yeah, that played out exactly how Lydia voiced concerns about. Same with Stacy and Izzy about the cooking. There's a lot of inequality between genders at play here, and while it outwardly looks very cruel and dismissive towards the man, I do think women react this way because they see all the work that, if the man isn't doing it, she will be expected to do, like the women before her.

[@Aerojuanas]

Really great points all around in this comment thread 🙌

[@smellydogpaw]

I think Stacy was rude. You don’t go into someone’s home and start criticizing things. My friend did that to me once when she stayed with me about my funny coffee mugs. She complained about them and for a minute it turned something I loved into something I felt ashamed and embarrassed about. There’s no need to make someone feel that way about something so small.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, not cool.

[@tinmanshrugged]

@@oliokiolithat was a rude, hurtful, and totally unnecessary thing to say. Guessing you’re a troll and like to mess with the emotionally healthy people who watch this channel

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Agreed. Well-put, Tinman.

[@MH-yj3jt]

I’m

[@michellechee7890]

My mil once came into the house my husband and i were staying in and start criticizing our use of one cupboard, said looks messy. After that i meticulously covered it up with shiny paper then she said it's ugly. That was really hurtful. After that she tried to defend herself and said its just that she wants her brother to have a cupboard to use (her bro was moving in later) 🤦‍♀️. So much tacklessness and lame excuses

[@AiSayuriChan]

Tbh I would be put off, too, if I saw my fiance's place for the first time and they only used disposable dishes. I probably wouldn't react as strongly as Stacy did - or at least I wouldn't show it. But I certainly would have thoughts like "Does he not like to do dishes? Does that mean I'll have to do all the work in the kitchen? Do I want our future kids to grow up eating from paper plates?" I think we have to keep in mind these people are planning on getting married in a few weeks and spending a life together. This whole issue of cleaning and chores is a big one, especially if you want kids. (I don't remember if Stacy and Izzy wanted kids or not.) But generally speaking I'd be afraid I'd have to do all the household chores or would have to "train" him to do these chores. I know how that sounds but unfortunately I've had to teach my first bf how to take care of a household. I've met a few guys who also needed help in this area. It's interesting how most of them seem to think a woman who appreciates a clean home likes to clean. That's just wrong. I do it because I have to - and that's what a lot of men have to realize. It's not about fun, it's about living in a place you can enjoy.

[@onedirectionlover317]

They did want kids. And I definitely understand wanting compatibility in this arena. But given the extent of their emotional connection and that they were engaged, I'd probably have at least led with questions rather than assertions about "this is how things should be" b/c I felt he was put on the defensive. Izzy mentioned on Nick Viall's podcast that he was often on the go and ate in his car, hence his preference for the disposable plates. Idk how much truth there is to that (and I doubt his claims that he did have "real dishes" elsewhere cuz then why didn't he just say that? And why serve dates food on the plastic plates?). I'll admit I might not bother if it was the dating phase and I was still trying to see how attracted I was. And it's a very valid thing to worry about, being burdened with the chores (I'd hate that too, and I imagine it's why the chore dynamic with roommates often ends up the way it does), but I'd say it's simply a lifestyle difference. One person's definition of an "enjoyable place" compared to the effort of keeping it tidy doesn't have to match another's, and that could be a relationship dealbreaker, but not all messy people might be expecting someone else to clean up after them. They might just enjoy the space enough to not put in additional effort.

[@AiSayuriChan]

@@onedirectionlover317 I get that. I've also dated a guy before who had just moved into a new flat and therefore lacked lots of things - and I didn't mind that. The only thing that bothered me about his flat was that he didn't seem to clean the restroom regularly. So yes, I definitely agree there's a huge difference between dating someone and planning on marrying them. You gotta be more careful about potential red flags then. And if they really wanted kids, then sorry, but a clean home is important. It'll take your kids years to be able to tidy up after themselves and to contribute to household chores. Until then you and your partner will have to do it alone. If you have a partner who doesn't do that... To me, that'd be hell. You might be right though: If both people don't care that much, they might be fine.

[@catherine.rezzuto]

thank you for saying this because i believe a lot of people see stacey being materialistic and critical because of this but i was viewing it from a "mental exhaustion" that a lot of women deal with in terms of the household chores/being aware of the daily routines like grocery shopping, cleaning, household maintenance with appliances. also because of izzy's background with previously being in a controlling religious background, she might believe that he wasn't taught certain household things or would rely on the woman to "do all the household work". because in my household, we use paper plates when we don't feel like doing the dishes or are eating leftovers, so stacey probably saw the disposable dishes as a marker for laziness or not knowing how to cook and she would have to teach him how to do things. maybe this is why she always went for older men as well? hoping that they would be "adult enough" for her. iirc didn't stacey say her family grew up scraping by? perhaps she saw those disposable plates and it brought her back to how her family previously lived. regardless tho, i will say that stacey is quick to judge, criticize and not see izzy's perspective and that sucks.

[@AiSayuriChan]

@@catherine.rezzuto Yeah, I think that's definitely something to keep in mind when looking for a life partner. :) I think Stacy said her grandpa and maybe her dad had to go through poverty. She didn't though. She only heard stories about it and that was enough to scare her I guess. I gotta admit I also believe Stacy is materialistic but not because of this scene. The paper plates thing is a valid concern imo. But when they had this other discussion about finances and she expected Izzy to take her out on expensive dates etc, that made me think she was materialistic. In the end, it doesn't really matter, she just needs to find someone who wants and can do these things for her. A broke man is not the right choice for her.

[@cath8373]

Absolutely spot on

[@negarbayati5697]

I had just gotten a job at a big tech company and they were paying for me to move. While packing, one of the movers casually asked me “so your husband got a job at big tech”? And it bothered me that they automatically assumed that I couldn’t be the one with a tech job and it must’ve been my husband! And what’s even more interesting is that I was living alone at the time and my husband wasn’t even in the picture!!

[@sarahohara4022]

Okay I feel you! I recently got new health insurance so I had to visit new providers basically back to back. 3/4 were male and, all 3, when they asked what I did for work (I work in a STEAM field) they all said something like “woah I wasn’t expecting that”. I was left feeling like, do I sound like I’m not educated? Or do I look like I’m not successful? It sucked but also is this bc I’m a woman? Or do they react like that to everyone?

[@negarbayati5697]

@@sarahohara4022It’s really sad that people still get surprised/ act surprised when they see a woman in STEM fields!

[@andedom]

“She is very concerned about being seen by others as something other than high class “ . Wow, I hadn’t thought of it that way. She perceives His lack of wealth as making HER look inferior …. So much of Stacy’s narcissistic supply seems to come from wealth. It’s really sad tbh.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

I heard that and it immediately made me think of her behavior back in the pods, not to Izzy, but with the other women. She was very guarded and didn't interact with the other women much and at the time I thought it was just a good strategy to not cause drama and be under the radar.. but thinking about it this way.. it makes you wonder if she just thought they were all beneath her. It ALSO makes me wonder if going for Izzy was some kind of "this guy is in demand so I'm going to prove I'm the best by getting him" thing .. yikes. Her privilege is SHOWING in this episode.

[@andedom]

@@InThisEssayIWill... interesting. Yes I could imagine that if Izzy had interest in any other girl around the time they got close, she would treat them similarly to how she treated Johnie. She talked about Johnie like they aren’t at the same level. “Don’t compare me to….. THAT!”

[@Sunnyday069]

@@InThisEssayIWill...I definitely thought her turning it on for Izzy was more her competitive side, wanting to win him vs she was so in love with him. She wanted to win.

[@Sough]

Yep Dr. nailed it

[@chloeblakesley608]

Exactly … I thought this from when she said “Give me a band or a boulder” about the engagement ring - basically no ‘pathetic’ diamonds allowed 🤮

[@cuddlebug1957]

If I knew a guy who has plastic plates and cups at the age of 29, I would be concerned that they would not be a fully functioning partner in a household. Like he’s waiting for a woman to swoop in and take care of the womanly things for him.

[@chicquie5471]

Yup absolutely a reason to see this as a red flag

[@koobs_]

Dr. Honda, I think the internet pushback from women about men's apartments has more to do with the women putting themselves in an inherently vulnerable situation by coming over during a date, and then having experiences where men have places that are barely habitable and in conditions where they probably should not be hosting anyone in, let alone a date. Some men (usually in their 20s) will still invite women over for the possibility of sex, even if they don't have a place for the woman to sit, or they don't have soap in the bathroom, or an extra towel for her, even while knowing that she is likely going to be naked at some point and in a pretty vulnerable situation. Some people feel like it's common courtesy to be concerned about the comfort of people who show up to your home, but especially when it comes to a date - women are already risking a lot by showing up at a guy's house because it's a potentially dangerous situation, they are already anxious and possibly on alert, and then to not have toilet paper in the bathroom or some basic amenities could feel a little degrading. Stacy may have had some bad experiences in this area (as most women have had in their twenties), and so some women may be a little overly sensitive to this. But, at times it is not appropriate to invite someone over to your house, even if it means that you may lose the opportunity to have sex that night. It would be much better if they were open and honest and explained to their date that their toilet is clogged or their shower doesn't work, rather than having their date feel uncomfortable in an already risky situation. I wish this was the exception rather than the rule, but most women have had these experiences far too frequently unfortunately

[@maureenchesus2851]

So well put and well thought out. Underrated comment.

[@exactlyerica9285]

They're not coming back for 3 bobby pins or whatever and he claims not to know who any of it's for. He thought it was cute and it was totally a trophy drawer.

[@javanjunkindahouse6625]

And he wanted to show her…maybe like showing her he’s wanted

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

Exactly!

[@sarahmunson1778]

Yup! The dismissal of this VERY likely explanation seems very ignorant.

[@dysmissme7343]

@@sarahmunson1778 Not really- this channel intentionally does not assume the worst in others

[@chicquie5471]

​@dysmissme7343 yeah but at one point it's becoming obviously male solidarity to give them so much the benefit of the doubt

[@amyann47]

Somehow I don’t think Stacey is offended by his plates due to being a staunch environmentalist 😂😂

[@Hi_Felisha]

Cole’s apartment had maggots in the toilet. Gross and a little concerning. Izzy’s place was fine, disposable dishes and all. The only thing he probably should’ve gotten ride of or at least not pointed out was the “lost and found” drawer.

[@Stormy575]

Another KZbinr has said she received confirmation that the apartment is an Airbnb.

[@Hi_Felisha]

@@Stormy575 that would explain some things too!

[@Aerojuanas]

Agreed 💯

[@AllyMack23]

@@Stormy575Can you say who? I want to learn more about that 👀

[@stephanieslawek]

​@@AllyMack23Jessie Woo. She floated the idea when that episode came out, and in her latest video she said she got 100% confirmation, although she didn't provide receipts.

[@miss.behave]

Why I love Dr. Honda, Him: “I can’t tell you how I used to live, our bathroom was gross, actually I’ll tell you one thing” 😂

[@feliciamorales7676]

There was a rumor that this wasn’t his place, it was an Airbnb. Hence the paper plates/solo cups and the odd decorations

[@kang_rina]

with condoms? hmm 🤔

[@MiMi-hq9hp]

I have never seen an Airbnb without real dishes.

[@dysmissme7343]

@@MiMi-hq9hp Same 🙄

[@onedirectionlover317]

On a separate note, I admire Dr. Honda's willingness to be transparent about his own messiness during his 20s, and being honest about the women he lived with also being messy (but particularly his own messiness), especially knowing that the comments section would probably be filled with people (particularly women) pillorying messy people. A brave soul indeed.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Ha!

[@chloeblakesley608]

Stacey needing to be perceived as wealthy is a strong hypothesis I think. I felt this when she said “Give me a band or a boulder” about the engagement ring - basically no small diamonds allowed, it’s really quite sad

[@KM-kv9yt]

It's not my intention to defend the way Stacy shamed Izzy about his living space, but I think many women resent men for not having had to learn how to upkeep a home. (i.e. "Of course you don't know how to do this, because you've had the privilege of not having HAD to learn, unlike myself.") In the US and many other cultures, girls often grow up being indoctrinated into the ideology that they are responsible for keeping the home, and therefore must learn how to do so, lest they be scrutinized or even ostracized. They associate unkemptness and lack of presentability with immaturity, because the inherent assumption is that the man relied on his mother to keep his childhood home, and he's now waiting for another woman to swoop in and care for him and his home. Essentially, an unkempt home is viewed as an indicator of a lack of independence and an overreliance on women to do the housework, further adding to the resentment.

[@onedirectionlover317]

Yeah, but the assumption is unfair. For all they know, the guy comes from an untidy home, the dad did more of the cleaning (actually the case in my home), the guy DID do chores growing up around cleaning but only b/c he was forced to, and couldn't be bothered once he was an adult and could choose to spend his time and energy how he wanted and didn't prioritize tidiness, etc. I'm an admittedly less-tidy woman, and the whole "don't do the same chores I did growing up" bit is totally true for me, and my limited cleaning energy I devote to maintaining the common spaces with my roommates (like taking out recycling, wiping kitchen countertops, cleaning the toilet, etc.), sometimes more than my roommate (although I've often had at least one roommate who'd do more than me). Meanwhile, several of my roommates have pristine rooms but rarely clean the common spaces, which imo is worse. Congrats on having a clean room and looking oh-so-good but letting the recycling overflow and expecting someone else to take it out 🙄 It's totally fine to not be okay with that, but I think it's unfair to assume an untidy guy expects the woman to come in and make his space cleaner. It's well possible that he just minds mess a lot less than she does, and so if she DOES clean up after him, it's because she prefers a cleaner space than he does. Again, valid to want a partner equally as clean / tidy as you, but unless we're getting into sanitation issues, unless the guy is explicitly placing that expectation, it's imo a personal preference. We see this with Cole, Milton, and Izzy - Izzy isn't expecting Stacy to furnish his apartment, he's genuinely fine without a nightstand and using disposable plates. Milton didn't ask Lydia to pick up his towels, he just didn't mind them on the floor and Lydia did. Cole didn't ask Zanab to clean up after him, Zanab simply preferred a tidier place than Cole. Again, I totally understand that's not all women's experience, and I want to sympathize with that. But as a messier woman whose dad was more diligent about tidiness, I am prone to giving men the benefit of the doubt and also realize that messiness may simply reflect a personal preference (which again, I'm not saying that someone should put up with my level of mess per se, but that my level of clutter doesn't mean I expect others to clean up after me, it just means I am fine with it and don't have the energy / inclination to devote more time to fighting entropy lol). And I also have zero tolerance for hypocrisy, so if a guy DID hold me to higher standards for cleanliness / expect me to make his place cleaner, I'd call him out on it (and kick him to the curb if he didn't adjust his hypocrisy).

[@neshisquirrel032]

Facts!

[@madmisskelly]

The plastic/paper plates thing is one of the only things I can agree on. While I wouldn't have said anything right away or phrased it that way, I get it. It's an effort thing for me- it doesn't take much money/effort to go to the dollar store or even second-hand stores and find some decent plates/cups/silverware. I've found some great dishes, pans, cocktail glasses, etc secondhand or at garage sales. I definitely use paper/plasticwear for certain meals like BBQ, etc or even on a busy work week so I don't get bogged down with dishes at the end of the week(I live alone).

[@totalrando3156]

Dishes are my adhd executive dysfunction kryptonite. When I was a single mom, I gave myself permission and Grace to use disposable dishes, utensils and cups wherever possible. Now that my kid is grown, I use real dishes again. Coping is coping 🤷‍♀️

[@KikiMav]

Yes executive dysfunctional because of ADHD or low spoon days are a real struggle. It helped my mental health a lot, to use shortcuts like these and not hold myself up to other people's standards.

[@ohisee9173]

​@@KikiMavjust looked it up, I'd never heard of the spoon theory 😅 interesting way to put it. I never have high spoon days, only medium to low and I need caffeine for that. I'll have to read more about the spoons lol

[@abbyc.4458]

Yep can relate. I DO own regular dishes though too. I don’t think my loved ones would care whether I served them on normal plates or paper plates. I guess I might find it somewhat odd if a dating partner had absolutely not one normal dish or glass. I would just want to know their reason

[@onedirectionlover317]

@@abbyc.4458 Same, I'd just be super confused. And as someone who hates doing dishes, I might perhaps come from a slightly more empathetic place (like "do you really hate doing dishes THAT much?!"), but that confusion would probably lead itself to questions, which I think is a healthier way to approach differences anyways (not that you're not allowed to have a problem with it, but at least seeking to understand first before jumping to conclusions).

[@stephanieleon5970]

I literally came to the comment section to say this very thing! We also own actual dinnerware, but we have learned to work WITH our ADHD, instead of against it. I know I will not do dishes with any kind of regularity. If you love me, you will serve me dinner on paper plates with plastic ware! ❤

[@WhitLin31]

Nightstands are one rhing, a drawer full of one night stand jewelry though? I might make some assumptions based on that.

[@abalkkeesa]

I’m super grateful for your reviews of these episodes! I watched a TikTok video in which a woman accused Izzy of weaponizing his vulnerability to manipulate and entrap Stacy. It’s concerning to me when people share opinions about others as if they’re sharing facts. Instead of getting lost in the TikTok woman’s theories, I found myself worrying about her mental health and the past relationship traumas she might have experienced that led her to these conclusions! I love talking about relationship dynamics in media, but I want my conversations to be constructive and educational. Thank you for doing that on KZbin!

[@skyetranqille9534]

Thank goodness you're speeding through this, really want your thoughts on the last couple of episodes

[@m-4136]

i think when she keeps saying maturity - in keeping with the idea im getting of stacey i think what she means by maturity is she sees these things as a signifier of a person that is 'adult' enough if you are too lazy to wash your own dishes cook for yourself like take care of yourself i can see how she would view these things as immature i think her head she doesn't see this as someone ready for marriage the way she is, like still being in the phase of a lost and found drawer and specifically the paper plates two very minute things but i think i agree with stacey that would be my idea of responsible serious significant other

[@Sough]

Although I do think a lot of it is she thinks how embarrassing it would be for her rich friends and family to see that as part of her life. Think of how much her family was aghast at him not having a passport

[@saltboxhouse]

This

[@onedirectionlover317]

@@Sough Oh I didn't find that as bad, but I'm also an immigrant so we needed passports LOL. Different for US citizens ik, but I could see how people who grew up having passports could assume that everyone has them. Arguably, her family seemed less judgmental than her, despite her dad's talk with Izzy.

[@AntoniaG1991]

Women are probably critical of the men's apartments because whatever's lacking there, they are the ones who are going to pick up the slack every single day. If I'm dating someone and I walk into their apartment, I'm scanning the place and taking mental notes on how tidy, organized and clean it looks. If it's a mess I won't pursue the relationship any further because if I'm in a relationship I expect to have to do less around the house (since we're now two people), not more, and I'm not going to spend a second telling my adult partner to do things around the house or teach him how to things he should already know. It's a "how much of a liability are you going to be for me"-mindset.

[@AntoniaG1991]

Also no one should pursue anything with a person who doesn't clean up their place when someone their dating is coming over for the first time 😬

[@onedirectionlover317]

And that's your / their prerogative, but that's entirely b/c you want a cleaner place than the guy in question. Not because you're "objectively right" or "superior". It's just a different preference in tidiness. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@AntoniaG1991]

@@onedirectionlover317 Why do women end up doing most of the home maintenance across the board if it's just a difference in preference? Homes require continual upkeep. If one partner has to do the majority of the housekeeping because the other one just has a different "preference" that doesn't sound like nothing more, nothing less to me lol. It sounds like you're fine with your partner picking up the slack and doing what needs to be done by someone anyway, which is odd since both partners in a relationship are fully grown adults. Suddenly I can't cook dinner because you're fine with having dirty dishes laying around and now there's no clean pots for me to use.

[@guitargirl313]

I am happy that that gender stereotypes are mentioned, my dad constantly pushed me to taking up housewife role at home, and i never understood why this is expected of me and not from my brother, even as a kid ( 7-8-9 year old) I felt it illogical that I would need to know this and not him, because when we would be living alone we would need to know this anyway: my brother would need to cook for himself and clean for himself anyways. I think this is just the same like how beneficial it is for girls/women to learn how to fix things around the house because it adds great value when you live alone (i was labeled as weak and clumsy and was not allowed to hold or learn to use tools). It's all about being able to live by yourself and manage your life and both side's skills are beneficial to know, no matter what gender you are.

[@AndreaFreeman90]

This- same experience here, only I have two brothers!

[@Shontay06]

I have two boys and two girls and we’re an equal opportunity house. My ex was the worst and used to get mad when I wanted to put any furniture together because he felt women shouldn’t be handy…which was hilarious because he didn’t have the necessary skills to do any of the “manly” stuff involving tools.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Love is furnished

[@mkaverage4773]

5:24 Are we pretending Coles place wasn’t dirty & that’s it’s not weird that Izzy doesn’t have dishes or certain furniture? I say that as a person who often wants to buy paper plates because the dishes are so overwhelming. No judgement, but it’s definitely outside of the norm. If I invited a friend over & only had paper plates, it would be normal for them to wonder why. No they shouldn’t shame me, but it is abnormal. Just as it is outside of the norm to be 30 years old & put your bedtime stuff on the floor rather than some sort of stand. Water, watch, book, phone, meds, alarm clock, jewellery. 😂 Sometimes I want to live in the world you live in where none of the men you know fit certain stereotypes.. Certain stereotypes are common, NOT because it’s genetic for men to do them, but because we as a society have let men give the bare minimum while we reward them. Or we have taught men that caring for certain things is feminine. Like decorating or self care or moisturizing or using an umbrella. These ideas don’t come from no where. Yeah not all men, but anecdotally as a women… lots of them. Denying that men & women have been conditioned to act a certain ways or do certain things doesn’t erase the issue. We have to face it head on & change. Saying gender roles are bad doesn't erase the lifetimes of conditioning we have all endured. We have to go far beyond that & put the effort in to change. Women need to do it too! The patriarchy has warped us all, but the only way to fix it is to acknowledge it & be better. Acknowledging that I have misogynistic beliefs doesn't make me bad, what makes me bad is denying them & not changing!!

[@t.ron314]

I came here to say something similar, so I agree. Especially in Texas, from a religious family...putting that aside, as a society, boys aren't taught that they have to keep things clean but girls are, so what we think of as basic knowledge many men haven't been taught or forced to learn on their own. Weaponized incompetence comes to mind. So do all those men who expect their wives/girlfriends/etc to do all the housework while they get to do whatever they want.

[@gemjule]

Well said!

[@ohisee9173]

"using an umbrella" got me 😂

[@sarahk4720]

Yeah I don't like Stacy and don't like how she is communicating, but I feel like he missed the boat about the mental load, like seeing he puts his stuff on the floor instead of a nightstand would trigger me like this probably means if they move in together she will have more of the mental load of creating a good living space.

[@onedirectionlover317]

Yes, but as a messy woman myself, I think I'm also prone to questioning how much of the sexism is intentional vs. assumed. If I dated a guy equally as messy as me, and he didn't expect me to clean up after him, then it'd be fine. I know guys tidier than me, and I've seen couples where the guy was nitpickier about cleaning. I'm not saying that my experience is typical, but seeing that is enough to make me question whether an untidy guy necessarily expects a woman to clean up after him or whether he's simply fine with a greater level of mess than the woman. That's still a reason to be worried about compatibility, and I wouldn't blame a tidier guy for being worried about my level of untidiness, but that doesn't mean he'd be accurate to assume I'd expect him to clean up after me - I wouldn't, I just wouldn't mind the clutter the way he might. Similarly, I wouldn't automatically assume that a messier guy would expect me to clean up after him. That being said, I have ZERO tolerance for hypocrisy, so if he did expect me to make his place cleaner than he himself was willing to do (different from him expecting me to help maintain his current level of cleanliness and not make it worse lol), then I'd call him out on it and possibly kick him to the curb. And it might be fair to test whether a partner is willing to consistently be cleaner before moving in them, but I think the assumption of sexism and weaponized incompetence is unfair, as someone who isn't the tidiest myself lol.

[@sarahohara4022]

No one: 👁️👄👁️ Stacy: *Maniacal laughter

[@nairchantre4589]

Stacy said that if he would cook and serve it on plastic that she would bring silverware. So that means he also uses plastic cutlery. Wow.. I would have a hard time too understanding why someone his age would prefer that. There are many rumors on the Internet that this appartement was an AirBnB. That would make more sense

[@MiMi-hq9hp]

I have never seen an airbnb with plastic cups and plates. At least in Europe, and also they always have regular stuff in the cupboard for guests to use.

[@MJ31579]

Stacy and her $20k HVAC systems for 1 person does not care about the environment. She is insulting him because she wants to live in luxury

[@magikenzee]

FACTS on my end though I'm mad at him for the environmental waste

[@Aerojuanas]

Totally agree

[@katherinewagoner741]

She is a self entitled aggressive/ passive aggressive & petty gal. of course IMO.

[@rethinkcps2116]

Texas gets hot. Decent AC is $$$$$.

[@chaoticgood_420]

And she works in the oil industry with her dad so yeah not environmentally friendly lol

[@m-4136]

i get the viibe the women always overemphasise how bad the men are at homemaking and home up-keep as like a way of soft pressure like see this why you need me, this is why you clearly need a woman in your life and lucky i can improve your home living conditions with all my extra standards

[@AceofRoses510]

Interesting thought. I'm trying to wrap my head around this type of behavior as I can't relate but have seen it often. When I've seen it, I always thought there was a bit of a response to sexism e.g. men are better at math, women are too emotional, etc. Perhaps thinking, "I'm very useful domestically so we are equal and balance each other out" or "you think you're better than me but really you're an animal so I'm actually better? You men are only comparing dick sizes." I don't know as I don't relate at all to this competitive banter. This kind of banter makes me rather sad. Let's see who can put each other down more. No wonder so many men and women resent the opposite sex. So your comment makes me see it in a bit of a kinder light. We all want to feel useful/needed. Before being a mother, I saw some men's lack of participation as caregivers as a clear reflection of their own misogyny. After becoming a mother, however, I've often witnessed other mothers instantly criticizing and then intervening in any effort their male partners make as a caregiver. I can somewhat understand some men not wanting to feel like an idiot and just avoid trying. It made me want to just hug everyone. BTW I'm not saying women shouldn't criticize men. I'm just saying it's more complicated than I initially thought.

[@LeylaSKDR]

I'm with Stacey about the plastic plates. I would judge him as well for the same reasons. The laziness, not caring for the environment, not caring about having a beautiful home.

[@Vanessa_S0]

This scene taught me that Americans actually use disposable plates outside of parties and I was so shocked. At first I honestly thought that Izzy was so poor that he bought plastic dishes and was reusing them 🤦Not that Stacy shouldn't have been nicer to him, of course

[@montserrattorresnadal5087]

Really disgusting.

[@Bobojuno]

It’s not common. I’ve never seen anyone irl do this.

[@anncokafor]

Trust me, most of us Americans were shocked. It's much cheaper and environmental friendly to use reusuable plastic or glass dishes.

[@dysmissme7343]

The only people I’ve seen regularly use disposable plates are either parents with a WHOLE bunch of kids or elderly folk

[@Tyda777]

I think Stacey means it is not adultlike to have Dixie cup, not husband material, this doesnt scream "I got my shit together", mature might not be the right word.

[@TheAn613]

Even if Stacy had an aversion to plastic dishes, there’s definitely a tactful way to communicate that to your fiancé rather than just laughing in his face and telling him she’s definitely judging him. What does that accomplish other than putting your partner down?

[@bajabarracuda4634]

These class style convos between Stacy and Izzy really grossed me out. I’m not sure if it was just the edit or Stacy was that mean but they were definitely rude to Izzy.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Same. Each new thing felt reaffirming to my first impressions.

[@Sough]

Same. For sure is he is sort of a man-child, but Stacy and her family were pretty gross, so much entitlement and condescension

[@annie_charcheologist]

Stacy was also supposed to have previously dated older men. I’m assuming for her, older equates to mature, more established (career, financially, emotionally) - not my belief - but perhaps in her dating pool or experiences, the men meet a certain standard (Izzy does not measure up). However, EVEN IF the previous relationships have been with men who have proper cutlery and dinnerware - how’s that worked out for her? It really feels like she is trying to establish a superior/inferior dynamic - and come off as this high value woman - high value woman don’t need to tell anyone their value! There’s been multiple instances that feel like she’s ‘humble bragging’. If you have to tear others down to build yourself up there’s a problem.

[@simply_khanh]

“night table, bed stand” 😅 so close!

[@peppermint23]

No one can convince me he wasn't living in an AirBNB/sublet. Those Hobby Lobby decorations were def not his doing.

[@shannon_cats]

The word you were looking for is “nightstand” ❤

[@rebekahroth8046]

To me it seems like the observation that he doesn’t provide a nightstand for his guests tells Stacy he is not very considerate or thoughtful of those he is in a relationship with/ intimate with. Then the box of jewelry saved for no real reason starts to point in the direction that past partners are nothing more than “notches in his belt” (is that still a phrase?) and he keeps these items as little trophies. The paper plates then add on to this idea that he will not provide much for his partners - or at least bare minimum. If I were dating a guy and I noticed all these little things, I would wonder if these are signs that this is a man who doesn’t put a lot of thought, consideration, or care into his relationships. It wouldn’t feel very good to me. I think she should express her preferences (without judgement) and then see what he does.

[@sarahmunson1778]

Yes! I hadn't been able to organize all the information like this, but you're right. There are lots of little clues adding up to show that he just doesn't care about his partners' comfort or convenience, which has huge implications for a woman planning on becoming his wife.

[@MiMi-hq9hp]

Yes!! Thank you for this. Also, not wanting to do the dishes and not considering your impact on the environment (in this case) for sake of your own convenience is a red flag. At least for more considerate people that understand the concept of social responsibility. So I would say it’s not just dates and relationships but this would make me wonder in what other situations will this person avoid doing the right thing and go for convenience. I guess it’s not always that bad to do something the easy way but it’s the opposite of the way I personally operate and would question our compatibility.

[@palomamartin6625]

Dr. Honda. You’re obviously out of the dating game 😂. As a single woman, I am shock to see straight men’s homes. 30 something year old men, with huge incomes live like kids. Filthy, no towels, no dishes, barely any furniture (other than a tv and a bed). I live in Germany btw. I’ve learned to accept that asking for a guy to have a decent home, it’s too much to ask. It’s sad, it’s scary, and it’s a reflection of how men are not socialized to be domestically responsible. Watching this I was surprised of Stacy’s reaction. She’s been single for a while, how is she surprised?

[@DR-nd5yz]

I think largely men are also often babied to the point where living in a clean space isn’t required of them. For a hetro couple if you’re a woman and you go into a really messy space you might worry that you will either have to clean up after them or you’ll have a messy space. There’s layers of gendered requirements on women and that’s why there’s that trend.

[@annie_charcheologist]

And if the roles were reversed would the woman in the scenario be considered “marriage material”? Because the ‘men’ that live like children are possibly just looking for a mumma - someone to organise their lives. When I met my ex (he was 32, I was 23) he had 3 pieces of furniture, lots of CDs, a stereo and a car AND a mountain of personal debt, unpaid bills and fines. I had a toddler and a 3 bedroom house. When we broke up, he went straight back to creating a bigger personal debt and unpaid rent, bills etc. I bought him a car outright. Every argument- you sound like my mother, why are you nagging me - well if you did the thing the first time I asked I wouldn’t still be asking 12 months later. He once tried to claim I wasn’t marriage material 😂 but he is also diagnosed NPD ASPD so eroding my confidence was his priority.

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

​@@annie_charcheologistYikes! So happy for you to having gotten out of there! ❤

[@Holy_ShihTzu]

Nothing is gained from shaming people for their home decor or lack thereof.

[@mamameg9916]

Anyone else convinced that it wasn’t Izzy’s place but an air bnb?

[@Sough]

Wonder how much of Stacey's sort of combative style is part of her "not like other girls" mantra where she is supposed to be competitive and shitty like the guys

[@Reese842]

I wouldn't do plastic kitchen stuff because of the environmental impact. I feel like glass is the better option and a small general set of utensils. I use a medium sized pocket knife that I self-sharpen to cut things.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

What if the cups and plates are left over from a bday party?

[@zimtapfel]

I agree, I didn’t like how the women put down the men for perfectly fine apartments.

[@Meganb1286]

Right, I’d be so offended! She was really rude immediately and I wouldn’t appreciate being laughed at.

[@meredithadams9468]

Yes, same thing happens on MAFS

[@baintreachas]

yeah, it feels like an externalization of the shame women are made to feel about housekeeping, which is the worst way to equalize things. just chill

[@MJ31579]

I found there are so many double standards in the show and how the audience reacted. I even stopped listening to other reaction vedios because it was soo one sided, gender wise. After this scene alot of people called Izzy broke, but his appartment was perfectly fine. Even neat and clean. Gosh, buy plates and problem is solved.

[@Meganb1286]

My thoughts exactly! This wouldn’t bother me but we’re all diff. I would honestly use my own dishes anyway as they are my favs lol

[@LilJOVs]

As someone who came from a poor family and is doing well for himself now, I really connected with Izzy's situation. It actually hurt me that he's being criticized for his socioeconomic status because I know there's a lot of people like that out there - and I used to be one of them. I'm very happy that my partner has never judged me for where I came from and actually asks me about those times so I can provide perspective and insight to a life experience different than hers.

[@jennifercave-np4ow]

I would not be impressed with paper/plastic plates, etc. but I would probably keep my mouth shut. He’s just not motivated to buy plates. She makes it clear in the pods she’s surface level. So I’m not surprised she’s judgy. But she got annoying constantly mentioning it.

[@AnimalsDressedasHumans]

My dad was in the military. He’s the neat freak of the family. My mom decorated, but my dad made sure everything was clean and tidy.

[@Grace_Psychology]

I hate that as a woman people always expect me to be this amazing cook. Like… I can make really good cereal ? Lol

[@vamieses]

There are also men who like to intensely ask women what they bring to the metaphorical table, when they themselves don’t have a literal table 😂🫠

[@Remmmratttt]

Some people’s lifestyles/the lifestyles they want are just not compatible… I don’t think Stacey is a bad person cause she has certain things she wants in a partner, but she didn’t need to drag him like that. Don’t like him and what he can provide, leave but he doesn’t need to know every way he ‘let you down’.

[@onedirectionlover317]

^^^^ THIS! 100% agree with the "lifestyle preference differences" sentiment, and that doesn't make one person better than the other.

[@sfooshy4517]

I think Stacys rant about him not having a night stand is another sign of her ignorance to his economic status. Not every one can afford a full furniture set. Out of everything nightstands have never been high on my priority list to buy.

[@sophiajeffrey8694]

what? you can get $5 furniture off facebook market place. Poor people know how to shop smart his issue isn’t poverty.

[@pcstew3]

I saw in Reddit threads theories of an ex of his moving out which is why it’s decorated that way, he has no plates or utensils, and is missing furniture. There’s also pet stuff there with no dog apparently.

[@sfooshy4517]

@@sophiajeffrey8694 to each their own, but a lot of people dont have time to go shopping around for a deal like that. Also there a ton of weirdos on fb marketplace so I personally avoid it.

[@ohisee9173]

​@@pcstew3interesting! Well the lost and found drawer indicates that he had enough time to date around

[@MsMockingbird06]

I don’t think it’s much to expect an almost 30 year old single man with no kids to have full furniture sets.

[@stevenalper3890]

17:22 she never said 'very, very harshly'. it's natural to judge someone for not using real dishes, it doesn't have to be catastrophic. you also seem to be engaging in a lot of whataboutism. why bring other things into question, why not simply focus on the issue at hand? (also, from a financial perspective, having a basic dinner service is a lot cheaper than continually restocking paper plates and plastic cups - it speaks more to not being very domestic, and carelessly (environmentally) throwing things away rather than washing things up)

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

Tbh I feel like with certain people, their preference to just throw things away might translate into their relationship as well. Izzy is a red flag to me because he is the player type, so if I were Stacy, that would have been my cue to reconsider the choice thoroughly. Ofc there are also people who are just lazy, but Izzy's vibes are just.. I can't take his "intentions" seriously

[@MagicalMissMikki]

He had plastic plates and cups! Totally reusable and meant to be reused! People keep coming back to the paper plates but there were literally normal plates and cups in there. I have tried having glass/ceramic plates and drinking glasses instead of plastic in the past and because of my dyspraxia they ended up mismatched and broken within a year. Meanwhile the plastic dinner plates I bought from target four years ago are still here 😭 all the comments saying “he doesn’t have any REAL plates” HE DOES!!! They’re just not heavy duty ceramic 😭 I’m pretty sure he mentioned at one point that he had “just signed a new lease” some other comments have said this is an Airbnb but even if it’s not, he could have gotten a set of plastic dishes from target or elsewhere that all matched and he felt looked nice. And then she came in and started shutting all over it. Meanwhile in her place one of the first things she showed off was all of her glass drinking glasses shit it may have been her ✨crystal✨ and maybe it’s because I’m broke as fuck and always have been but I never felt the necessity to have three cabinets full of glass drinking vessels. I don’t have a need for that! It feels frivolous and something that’s “just to have it” like look at all my useless breakables.

[@limepiper3650]

Yes!!! I am also very much against gender stereotypes, it harms men and women. Men can like things that are considered "feminine" and women can like things that are considered "masculine" if we would stop placing those gender stereotypes a lot of our social problems amongst mem and women would be resolved. This why I like to talk about the differences between gender and sex. Gender is something made up by society and sex is our biological reality.

[@cjgroom109]

amen

[@bashmeesh]

Lol

[@heatherstanfield1007]

idk if id even be attracted to her anymore with how incredibly critical of such unnecessary things she seems to be...she is pretty annoying at this point and I feel kind of bad for Izzy I sort of hope he runs.. 😅

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

I wouldn't have it this far. But then, I'm not her type either.

[@MsMockingbird06]

At 21:42, can’t help but think about that commercial where that guy cooks pasta for his date and serves her with a paper plate. The plate bends and the food spills on her 😂 Leave the paper and plastic for the cookout. Use proper dishes for dates, imo.

[@manne4291]

I think the putting down of the man’s home has more to do with the women asserting their “feminine skills” than putting down the men…. Women are often judged/valued on their home making skills so it seems to me they are almost trying to assert “I’m so good at being a feminine woman I will improve your home and life so much by decorating/furnishing/cooking/cleaning” etc… annoying but not surprising… society likes to act like men are incapable of doing domestic tasks which often gets them out of having to try in that department at all.

[@shelbylee242]

I mean as long as it's generally clean, personal style is just that, personal. I don't think we need to rag on people so hard. Especially in a society that handed out terms like metrosexual to guys who cared even the slightest about their physical appearance.

[@kristindewey2400]

I don’t know if it’s a lower (than Stacy’s family) class thing or a Houston thing…but I’m pretty close to Houston and my parents are upper middle class…and they use paper plates and solo cups and plastic silverware *all* of the time. They buy them in bulk from Sam’s. Fancy house with a media room…and plastic ware/paper plates. 😂🤷🏻‍♀️ I don’t understand why this matters *at all*.

[@nope7560]

That’s actually a great strategy. Reverse the scenario and things become a lot clearer.

[@mml0082]

It seemed like he didn’t just happen to have a lost and found that she discovered, but rather he wanted her to see it (likely to brag about what a “stud” he is)

[@KatsPurr]

Izzy swerved SUCH a bullet with this broad. I hope he realizes that some day. Stacy is one of the most off-putting, vile women I've ever seen on this show. Does she genuinely have no capacity to see what's actually important in life? If a man were to go to the trouble to cook me a meal, I wouldn't give two hoots what he served it on as long as it was clean. In fact, I'd actually find it incredibly touching and endearing that the meal were on plastic dishes. It displays that it's not a normal every day thing for him to be preparing a special meal for someone and that he made an exception in my case. (at least if he seems to display a lot of care and consideration on a general level and that it's not just laziness).

[@khxliakhxlia3605]

I think they both dodged a bullet

[@AleIsabellB]

Theory: Izzy rented that apartment on Airbnb for the show.

[@kristinrodier2217]

My empathy is really really gone for Stacey. Her behaviour reeks. I feel like I’m getting bullied by proxy just listening to her. The party scene killed any hope I had.

[@skyetranqille9534]

Hmmmm Staceys delivery was terrible and she's very judgemental but I'm also shocked he didn't have real plates at least just for company. That would read immature to me, like you haven't moved past college/early 20s days. Same with the trophy drawer, it's less extreme than this but it's like collecting women's underwear.

[@nikkirotundaful]

Using disposable plates, glasses, and silverware can be essential for people with adhd. I did it for awhile. I was concerned with the waste, but having a clean kitchen was better for my mental health. I think it could be ableist to criticize someone for these types of things depending on the context. I’m not saying that is the case here. But I had to get over the shame of my accommodations in order to have a happier life.

[@onedirectionlover317]

I think this illustrates the importance of leading with questions and curiosity rather than uncharitable assumptions. I'll admit, I don't know much about ADHD, certainly not enough to know that disposable silverware would help. I can see why people might not realize they're being ableist by criticizing it because admittedly the connection between disposable silverware and ADHD accommodations isn't as linear (to me) as, say, mobility issues and a ramp. More awareness about mental health and accommodations would certainly be beneficial for all, and I imagine it will improve in the future as mental health is given more importance (I feel like ADHD, etc. are brought up more now than they were even when I was growing up, so I do think awareness is improving).

[@Alicewunderimland]

I understand Stacy for her lost and found reaction. It is super creepy, keeping stuff in a basket from hook ups. If someone left in my place smth in the past you have one week to search for it and after it goes in the bin, it’s not my problem you forgot it , honestly I had the feeling sometimes they left it on purpose in my home so they have an excuse back into my bed 🤦🏻‍♀️ and every time I have met them on my door on the entrance hall to give their belongings back 🤣 I made it really clear and they were like “let’s have another date” 🥲 I am like “no thank you but you can pick up your jacket till xy” happy these days are over 🥳

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

I could see being weirded out by it. But once Izzy gave his reasoning, would that help?

[@Alicewunderimland]

@@zacharyjohnson1193which reasons from keeping one earring from a hook up which was one month ago? The women don’t care anymore maybe even not remember his name but he keeps her lost earring? It’s a ego thing, trophies 🥸 he has smth from her 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ if it would be underwear from women I would understand!

[@nicksergent6792]

You have literally no proof that it’s an ego thing and that he’s keeping trophies. It could be, but you don’t know that. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder.

[@emmy92803]

two comments 1. I live in Mexico, and plastic dishes are much more common where I live (maybe not all of Mexico) So it's possibly a cultural thing since I believe Izzy is Mexican. 2. My husband is the decorator in our home, and I too get credit (or blame) for our house's style. (ironically my Mexican husband built a white picket fence which is very American) our house is nickanemd the American house not because I'm American but because of the fence whcih everyone thinks was my idea.

[@Yasmin-pi5pr]

Well, he disclosed the lost and found drawer without being asked and he denied financial issues when asked..

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

I appreciate your male perspective on this, because I've heard the "men live like this when they live alone" kind of stuff forever, and it is unfair stereotyping. I'm just used to it and watched this without questioning it :( . Also, although we can't diagnose from the internet (and we're just seeing edited footage, etc.) it does seem like Stacy has the Narcissist trait/pattern of wanting to be put him down/ better than him, but also he reflects on her so she needs to shame him into being her version of better so he is an acceptable partner for her.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah. At the very least, we can say that she seems to be quick to ridicule without reservation and without overt remorse.

[@leora8278]

I also think that kind of ridicule for class behaviours is disgusting. Also not having permanent cutlery/dishware can be a sign of other things like depression. When i lived by myself in university I had a set of dishes/cutlery passed down from family but because I was a fulltime student with chronic depression, anxiety, and PTSD living in a new city/country and a lot of the time I'd buy paper/plastic knowing there will be a lot of time where I don't have the energy and looking at a full sink will overwhelm me and make me feel worthless.

[@catherinemarie08]

I feel like maturity is code for makes lots of money.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

...yeah...I feel that too.

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

Nah. Maturity is being a proper adult. You dont need lots of money to buy basic stuff for your home. There are so many options nowadays. But Izzy must have gotten confused, he must have been looking for a night stand but mistook it for one night stands :(

[@onedirectionlover317]

@@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681 🙄 a nightstand isn't a "basic" for a home. My life is no worse for lacking a nightstand. Pretty absolutist to impose your standards of "basic necessities" on everyone and equate wastefulness (buying something you don't need is the definition of wasteful) with maturity

[@Matter-of-Fax]

I think he feels a bit marginalized by stacey and her money, so showing her how many girls he’s been with is a power play.

[@Yasmin-pi5pr]

I thought so, too. Inmature

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

Ew 😂 like possible STDs are something to be proud of and compete with money 😂

[@kimberlydohner399]

Izzy’s place has to be an AirBNB

[@snOags]

I had a gf complain about my paint colors like it was a big deal. She usually had some kind of dig about my house. Of course she neglected the fact she had an apartment where should couldnt even change a color or hang almost anything. The entire apartment was grey.

[@psiquepanchis]

19:53 Dr Honda perfectly starts to articulate why she coulnt marry Izzy. Basically she feels is to high class and cant marry lower

[@kalilili]

As a non american, not having dishes is literally insane to me.

[@Reese842]

These superficial bs things ... she may be exaggerating her judgment and it's not apparent to us or barely to him, but it's why I don't bring women to my place. I live in a late 1950s home that has been in my family for 3 generations. I love this place, but based on the new home decor, floor plan and tech in new homes ... I'd be judged hard. I spent 6 months backpacking the Appalachian trail in 2019. I lived with 11 lbs of gear on my back. I learned how to survive ... learned what was truly necessary. I thought I wasn't a materialist before the trail, but now I'm definitely not.

[@annie_charcheologist]

Mid-century can be very cool. Lean into it. I get what you mean with floor plan though - old houses tend to have lots of small rooms. My older home has impractical storage space, hazardous or questionable building materials 😂

[@Reese842]

@@annie_charcheologist 🤣 mine does too! Just the attic ... tiny closets.

[@Reese842]

@@annie_charcheologist asbestos lol

[@jrose93]

14:44 i cannnnnnot believe you chose the word astonishing before she even says it three seconds later.

[@Ola_Stawinska]

I would be concerned about cups and plates because it is wasteful to use them alk the time and not just specific situations like eating outside (plus plastic forks and knives are just terrible! Breaking all the time). If a guy would serve me food like that i would assume that he doesn't care about environment at all.

[@theneighbourhoodraccoon1681]

I would assume that he also doesn't care to impress me (and thus, pursue me as a partner) either tbh

[@2daFull]

There are tons of stereotypes in society related to men. I think these stereotypes are pervasive in society because men's emotions are rarely viewed as important in society. If something hurts a guys feelings, there isnt much safe space for him to address said hurt. Which I believe is also because of stereotypical thinking of those in his environment. In my experience, women in particular often look down on me for expressing my feelings and emotions. Im glad my wife doesnt and i have the space to speak about my needs.

[@sintara8442]

I come from a completely different culture and that probably plays a part. But I might have a open mouth response if I saw anyone having disposable dishes to use in day to day life. I have never seen them outside of kids parties. And so yea I would totally want to know the why and the how and why again 😂. I would be fine with 3 different plates and 2 spoons but this is almost alien 😅

[@nicksergent6792]

I just want to say, after reading other comments, that I find it incredibly unfair that I have listened to women in my life, both friends and girlfriends, take every opportunity to drag guys as a whole for any number of things. I empathize with their plight and try not to perpetuate sexism myself. If I spoke about women like that it would not be acceptable. Why the double standard? It’s not right. You can believe that someone is dirty or needs a better place or whatever but they are free to live their life as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. If you don’t like their ways, then just move on to someone you mesh better with. Find a man who doesn’t expect you to clean up after him, they exist. I am of the same philosophy as Dr. Honda that society is harsher on men than we give credit for. That doesn’t mean I’m saying men have it harder than women, because I don’t think it’s necessarily true and also it’s not a contest, but the double standard isn’t cool. We can’t pursue equality and fairness with one sex and hate on the other. I know that men can be assholes or inconsiderate but I know plenty of women who are too. Neither sex is superior.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

This reminds me of Look Who's Talking when she imagines being poor with John Travolta!

[@whtyc]

6:01 Thank you for talking about this!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks for the validation. Given the comments, it seems that maybe you and I are alone on this one.

[@Catstimesinfinity]

I use washable plastic dishes and cutlery because theyre a lot quieter and if something hits my teeth, it doesnt hurt my brain (i have adhd)

[@meredithadams9468]

Izzy is handling Stacy’s (passive aggressive?) blows really well. I wonder if Texas has some more traditional (backwards) gender norms/expectations than other places.. I also live in the Pacific NW in Portland , OR and have lived on the East coast.. people are much more socially aware in terms of gender on the West coast. It is more striking to me now to see things like this because I’m not used to it!

[@TheIndigo1child]

Why are traditional gender norms backwards? The overwhelming majority of the planet adheres to them and is quite happy to do so. They are only oppressive if we feel oppressed by them. My parents adhere to traditional gender roles and have a very happy, healthy loving marriage.

[@Test-zn9rs]

Moreso on the West coast versus the East coast?

[@meredithadams9468]

@@Test-zn9rsyes my comment was to say I’ve noticed more social consciousness and less adherence to traditional gender norms on the west coast. In general that is!

[@Test-zn9rs]

@@meredithadams9468 This doesn’t surprise me, but I just wanted to make sure I understood! The East coast seems to be more steeped in traditions. Where are you from on the East coast, if you are comfortable sharing?

[@AllyMack23]

As a Texan, yeah, no one would bat an eye in this conversation. I think most people here think this way.

[@JohannaEnough]

I thought it was the norm in America to eat from plastic cups and plates. Its been the case in most homes Ive visited in the US. I'm a bit confused now and also wondering is it a social class thing?

[@xcitipopx]

"little table next to the bed"

[@lanagustafson1700]

I doubt it’s the environment that Stacy is concerned about here

[@plutoniumcore]

Totally concur

[@katherinechurcher3501]

I appreciated this breakdown of the criticism. I think, in general, it is sad when partners are overly critical of each other. I think there are many things that divide us as humans these days. I think accepting our partners' struggles/weaknesses gives them space and agency to grow those areas themself in a long-lasting way. Building shame around a weakness and piling on criticism is not effective in my opinion.

[@kyraconsiders]

I wear a lot of heirloom jewellery and I’m a forgetful klutz. I would hope that if I left something behind it wouldn’t immediately be thrown out. I’d be very grateful he kept it so I could get it back. Now the length of time he’s keeping things could be a factor.

[@ElderMilennial]

In defense of paper plates (haha): when i was younger and less concerned about the environment, I used paper plates all the time. Not because I couldn't afford porcelain, I just hate washing dishes! Now I use real plates, but not because I'e evolved into a more elegant human. I am more conscious of waste. My family still uses paper plates on high holidays like Christmas and Thanksgiving. Why, because it's usually 20+ people, and no one wants to wash that many plates.

[@zimtapfel]

I’ve met so many men that have great places! Very clean, nice decoration etc.

[@XennialAndAPuppyyy]

As a 41 year old neurodivergent adhd/autistic woman living alone with no dishwasher, i only have a few dishes for myself and then have paper plates and cups on hand for the one or two friends i have over once a month. I had lots of nice dishes but had to give them to goodwill for my sanity bc they’d pile up in the sink demanding to be hand washed all day. My friends are “hippie artist-neurodivergent types”, so nobody cares what they eat off of bc we’re busy hanging out. I once had to have a friend eat off of a Tupperware top 😬, but we just laughed about it. I don’t want to ruin the earth so I save my paper dishes for fancy occasions so i don’t have to give anyone a Tupperware top again. Social norms are arbitrary to begin with and really change depending on region/culture/age/preferences/neurodivergency. I grew up with a mom who had us eat off china and use real silverware at holidays, which i know is extremely privileged but it made it easier to see how arbitrary it all is and how much more fun I have laughing with my friends about eating off of a Tupperware top than having conversations about complimenting the dishes especially if they’re from Bed, Bath and Beyond, and not handmade, or heirlooms, or more special than a Tupperware top in some way. Looking back, my ex-boyfriend might have judged me secretly but he also sucked.

[@annie_charcheologist]

Tupperware is a sturdy option and good for the environment. Sounds like you have found your tribe! Personally I can’t imagine talking about someone’s dishes, how boring would that conversation be - “ohhh isn’t that a lovely gold trim” *in my best Drop Dead Fred voice 😂.

[@XennialAndAPuppyyy]

Lolol, i love that! 😂 The only dish conversation i can picture being fun is in the Bird Cage when the fancy dishes have small drawings of male body parts on them and the conservative guests are trying to decipher what they are. 😂

[@CabinFever52]

Reference plates----I'm just going to be thankful the guy cooked for me.

[@dumbblonde95]

Regarding the “he’s a man so he must have no taste/style” perception in our society: many of our most famous and celebrated artists/designers/musicians/etc are men. The creative roles requiring softness, sensitivity, an eye for aesthetic and beauty. To me it’s kind of funny that we simultaneously revere “untouchable” men in these roles and yet deride our closest everyday men for daring to occupy or practice these roles

[@mazieferreira7757]

I believe it's called a nightstand, Doc😉 I totally would not be o.k. with the lost and found stuff- if you are engaged to someone then all that stuff has to go straight to the garbage, as all those other women are now irrelevant to him. Stacy comes across as spoiled and privileged.

[@piranaplant]

high-class is not popping a hydrant in a heat-wave

[@LearnPolishwithEvaKam]

Environment and animal treatment is important for me. I expressed this very early to my now husband. I don’t think she’s such a environmentalist if she didn’t know this detail about him before. Like what did you talk about on those pod dates? I’d judge anyone with plastic non-reusable plates. I’m not ashamed of it either. I’d only be fine if during the dating stage it would be understood by my potential partner that this behaviour ends because it’s bad for the environment.