Quinacridone Burnt Scarlet PR206 Comparison - Daniel Smith, Winsor & Newton

PR206 discontinued vid • PR206 is really being ...
W&N perm aliz crimson www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/win...
W&N brown madder www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/win...
Daniel Smith Quin burnt scarlet www.jacksonsart.com/en-us/dan...
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[@MirandaWatsonArt]

Oh wow, that W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson is just beautiful!

[@PaintinHiding]

It definitely issss! XD

[@Blick_Art]

Really interesting! The change from wet to dry was quite dramatic- we wonder if the wet appearance could be retained by using a gum arabic solution, or a more heavily sized paper? Also, we noticed the automatic captions translated "permanent alizarin crimson" into "permanentalism" so we wonder if we just saw the birth of a new artistic movement... Any Permanentalists out there? No? (Sorry, we know we're awkward when we try to be funny)

[@PaintinHiding]

those are great questions! i’ve never tried a gum arabic solution before but i shall keep that in mind to try in the future. and 🤣 permanentalism! 🤣😂 well if it’s the hue like the w&n shown here then i definitely AM a permanentalist! 😁🙋🏻‍♀️

[@PaintinHiding]

oh and i’d like to say thank you for making your website viewable from thailand 👍🏻 as opposed to jerry’s as i’m unable to access their website. region restriction issues 😅

[@Blick_Art]

​@@PaintinHiding Gum arabic can be added to your water to increase the amount of binder. Sometimes it's good for colors that go flat when they dry, to give them a little more transparency and gloss. It can make them slower to dry, however, so it's best used in the minimum effective amount.

[@sunlight5296]

I've got Quinacridone Maroon (PR206) by Roman Szmal. It is more brown than red and leans more towards peach when diluted. I don't paint skin, but I can assume that it would make a great mixer for skin tones.

[@awatercolourist]

I’ve actually hear that before, that PR206 is a great skin tone mixer.

[@PaintinHiding]

im beginning to see a pattern that most pr206 is of tthe brown variety. thanks so much for ur input Sunlight!

[@weekend_art]

I stocked on WN Brown madder, also I have Schmincke’s Madder brown and DS Quin Scarlet in stick - I find them all middle/warm reddish, love them

[@PaintinHiding]

NIIICE!! i'm still thinking about whether i should get jackson's PR206 or not lol

[@ms.rocketscience4924]

I just bought the last two tubes of W&N brown madder left at my local Blick store. This version is definitely on the brown side of red, but in person, my swatches are less brown than in your video. Maybe it is just the difference that happens with cameras and computers. I can also get a darker mass tone that may be attributable to the paper I used. The Alizarin crimson version is lovely as well, so I think I will go see if they have any tubes left of that version. Thanks Vee!

[@PaintinHiding]

WOOHOO!! CONGRATS on getting the last two tubes! XD ohhh yessss, if you can get your hands on the alizarin crimson one, i highly recommend it! i was pleasantly surprised since im not that much of a red person, more of a magenta person. but it's sooo lovely! XD

[@colorjunkie]

I fell in love with A. Gallo's Quinacridone Chestnut about 6 months ago, and have been looking for a tube of it somewhere, since A. Gallo is only half pans. Looks like the Daniel Smith one is closest to the color I'm looking for.

[@PaintinHiding]

hi Talya! i basically dont know anything about a.gallo, definitely need to check them out. thanks for your input!

[@awatercolourist]

Hi Vee 👋🏼. According to Handprint (and I think Jackson’s as well), W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson is made of Quinacridone Pyrrolidone + PR206. Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is not listed on the Colour Index, but I am not sure why W&N does not mention that pigment on their paints and website.

[@davejohnson5365]

i agree, having quin pyrrolidone mixed in explains the difference. also no other manufacturer has managed to modify r206 as a single pigment to take it to an 'alizarin/cool red' end of the scale. according to handprint re pr n/a: 'It is not assigned a color index name, according to the Society of Dyers and Colorists, because it is a proprietary, crystallized compound of two separate pigments (based on the dark color, my guess is these are a dark shade of quinacridone PV42 and the diketo-pyrrolo pyrrole PR254).' so maybe w+n don't want to reveal that this perm aliz crim is most likely a blend of three pigments. there is also some info on pr n/a on 'the colour of art pigment database'

[@awatercolourist]

@@davejohnson5365 Thanks a lot Dave! I don’t think Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is considered two pigments. I recall reading somewhere (I thought it was in the above paragraph from Handprint) that Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is a coprecipitation of two chemical compounds together, a quinacridone and a pyrrole. I think chemically that is considered to be a single pigment, but I am not sure, I did not study chemistry. If anyone here had studied chemistry, may you please tell what coprecipitation means? For those interested in trying Quinacridone Pyrrolidone, check out W&N’s Permanent Carmine PR n/a. Jackson’s mentions that it is a Quinacridone Pyrrolidone but W&N says it’s a PV19. Confusing, isn’t it!

[@awatercolourist]

@@TracyIndy Hi Tracy 👋🏼. That is so interesting. I’ll go check it out.

[@awatercolourist]

@@TracyIndy I think MBIT is a preservative. I couldn’t find anything on MBIT but Wikipedia has an entry for BIT, which is a preservative.

[@awatercolourist]

Now that the PR206 has been discontinued, the new formula for Permanent Alizarin Crimson is PV19+PR179. I’m not sure whether that means that they have changed the formula from using Quinacridone Pyrrolidone to using PV19, or whether Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is now classified as a PV19. Permanent Carmine (which Handprint states is made of Quinacridone Pyrrolidone) still has no pigment information. Even on Blick Art Materials there is no pigment information. Only Jackson’s mentions that Permanent Carmine is Quinacridone Pyrrolidone.

[@TsukabuNosoratori2]

I love seeing your swatches and hearing your thoughts about the colors. I'm not really into this range personally though. I more liked Anthraquinone Scarlett before it was phased out, so I bought at least 5 tubes of that color lol. I can mix a shade of earthy red like Brown Madder by adding a touch of burnt Sienna. or Red Iron Oxide. Or even Quinacridone Rust.

[@PaintinHiding]

thanks so much Tsukabu XD and yeah, i can totally relate. im more of a magenta person and for the red browns, i probably prefer PO48 but i'm also trying to love more colours :D

[@Katherine_AZ]

I love the Alizarin Crimson version of PR206. Sadly, WN has changed to PR179.

[@PaintinHiding]

i do like the crimson as well! what a shame~

[@aeli999]

I have and love the DS. I'm so sad that it is going away.

[@PaintinHiding]

oh! i think daniel smith probably still has plenty. it’s just the manufacturers of the pigment are stopping production but i believe daniel smith stocked up on loads

[@awatercolourist]

My Roman Szmal PR206 is of the brown variety. It’s very similar to the Daniel Smith and W&N Brown Madder.

[@PaintinHiding]

im beginning to see a pattern that most pr206 is of the brown variety. thanks so much for ur input!

[@Christine_R]

I have Brown Madder in a 15ml tube from Schmincke and Quinacridone Burnt Orange from QOR and they are both more like Winsor & Newton's Brown Madder. I'm sad they will be no longer available in the furture. I mixed all of my "shadow greys" with it.

[@PaintinHiding]

oohh thank you very much Christine! that is very good to know so people can decide accordingly. 🥰

[@katieakr]

I have Schmincke's Madder Brown. It's like the Daniel Smith Quin. Burnt Scarlet and W&N Brown Madder.

[@PaintinHiding]

aha! thank you so much for the info katieakr! ;D

[@camillaablom]

Permanent alizarin is a mix of their permanent carmine and PR206 I believe

[@camillaablom]

I meant the pigment in permanent carmine, quinacridone pyrrolidone or something... :)

[@mariarecuencocanas3653]

I have Brown madder from Schmincke and also Castagna quinacridona from Gallo, both of them are the brown type. I think the Gallo one is more intense. I love it

[@PaintinHiding]

oooh i haven't looked too much into a.gallo so thank you very much for letting us know Maria~ hope ur having a good week! :D

[@karens_9234]

@@PaintinHiding The current A.Gallo PR206 is called Quinacridone Chestnut, and it is lovely! 🙂

[@PaintinHiding]

@@karens_9234 thank you Karen! 🥰

[@jennw6809]

Hey thanks, I've been wanting to see that W&N Perm Alizarin paint - I noticed it seemed so different than the DS version. I've been meaning to try Qor as well. I have a Brown Madder from DaVinci but it's a mix (it came in the Quin set they sell.) Maybe I'll see if my local art store has the W&N in stock, I'm betting it's the old stuff.

[@PaintinHiding]

i kinda of wish jackson’s 21ml tube is the redder hue not the brown hue. it’s a lot cheaper than other brands.

[@jennw6809]

@@PaintinHiding Thanks so much for clarifying that! I do like the browner hue - DS puts theirs with their earths, and yes, to me it is a modern earth scarlet. I wouldn’t mind picking up the redder version just for pigment nerd purposes. (Speaking of which I wish I’d tried to buy up more of the Holbein Marine Blue…. Lol….)

[@jennw6809]

@@PaintinHiding I got the W&N PR206! Made impulse trip to store LOL

[@PaintinHiding]

@@jennw6809 ha!!! good for you! XD glad they still had it :D

[@stas61690]

I just checked Blick in the US and W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson is now noted to be PR179 (Perylene Maroon) and PV19 (Quin Violet) so maybe they have already replaced this in new stock from W&N. Or Dick Blick has bad info.

[@stas61690]

Ooh! I also see that their Brown Madder is now PR179 as well. I have some of the PR206 Quin Burnt Scarlet from DS but just a wee tube.

[@stas61690]

@BlickArtMaterials and @JerrysArtarama Maybe you could confirm this?

[@PaintinHiding]

i think that’s very possible seeing that my older “PR206 is being discontinued” video was at least 3 months ago. all the big brand stores that see high traffic might not have the w&n’s PR206s anymore. smaller shops might still have though.

[@valeriejouve3858]

Hello, this pigment IS a composant of quinacridone gold in Winsor newton And thé New permanent alizarine crimson , without this pigment IS vert différent , brownish

[@PaintinHiding]

ooh thank you for your input Valerie! that's very good to know ;D

[@OneTrueWord1988]

Worrying about two things: 1) So many color numbers seem to be leaving; do I run out and try to find them in case I regret not doing so later? and 2) My degrees are not in Chemistry, so I don't understand even half of what is being discussed in the comments! 😅🤣😂

[@PaintinHiding]

i think if u can afford getting a tube or a half pan to try, then do it and see if it’s a colour u like and i think “stocking up” on one tube would already last a long time. if it’s not in the colour range that u already know u love, then it’s not the end of the world. at least i dont think so 😅 not sure if that’s any help at all lol. i think jackons sells PR206 for a good price in half and full pan, and tubes as well.

[@OneTrueWord1988]

@@PaintinHiding Hi Vee - thanks for your answer. Yes, you're right! I may try a tube of Jackson's next time I order. I stocked up on Quin Gold (the PO 48 one; I missed PO 49,) because it's my absolute favorite color, and I'm trying not to worry about all these discontinued colors. They'd better not do anything with my sap green! Have a lovely day! Donna

[@susanavenir]

My long divorce from W&N seems to have just ended. Their permanent aliz is gorgeous!

[@PaintinHiding]

haha! it truly is! 😆❤️

[@awatercolourist]

First!

[@PaintinHiding]

😁🥇