Winsor & Newton replaces PR206 with PR179 in Permanent Alizarin Crimson: how different are they?

Hello friends!
I’m Elisabetta, an Italian watercolour artist with a passion and a curiosity for art supplies and pigments.
You know that PR206 Quinacridone Maroon has been discontinued. Winsor & Newton Permanent Alizarin Crimson has changed its formula from PR206 to PR179, Perylene Maroon. I happen to have both version and I'm swatching them side by side! Let's find out the difference!
I will also try, as usual, some mixes.
Hereafter you can find the link to the introduction to the Quinacridone family: • Quinacridone Quintet b...
My video about PR206, Quin Maroon: • PR206 Quinacridone Mar...
I often buy my art supplies on Momarte, my favourite online store which always has sales and special offers; hereafter the link to Winsor & Newton range:
www.momarte.com/prodotti-per-... (they ship internationally and are very helpful and kind).
This is the Brush I used in this video www.momarte.com/prodotti-per-...
Here you can find all the Watercolor material
I recommend and my curated palettes: www.lp.momarte.com/recommende...
If you prefer to buy on Jackson's art, here is the link to Winsor&Newton professional watercolour range :
www.jacksonsart.com/winsor-ne...
These are affiliated links that will support my channel without costing you any extra money.
Also, if you appreciate my videos, don't hesitate to like and subscribe to my channel, that would be amazing.
You can follow me on Instagram to see my art: / elisabettafurcht
I am also a Skillshare teacher with over 15 watercolor classes, especially suited for beginners or intermediate students. My link will give 1 month free trial: www.skillshare.com/r/user/eli...
That's all for now!
Ciao from Italy
your Elisabetta xxx
#quinacridone #watercolor #watercolour

[@starr-starr]

I have both. I stocked up on PR206 earlier this year when it was announced it was discontinued, but I grabbed a tube of the new as soon as I found one. The new version is equally as beautiful, WN did a very good job of matching the older version so that artists will not have to make a big change - most will not even notice a difference, as you say. There is only a very subtle difference in my swatches, and they both paint out beautifully.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank you for sharing this! I found that W&N made a fantastic job as well. It’s such a beautiful Alizarin Crimson! Have a great weekend 😄

[@anicelery4764]

Thanks for this comparison Elisabetta so helpful! I definitely prefer the pr206 version it just seems richer in tone and creamier in consistency. Why do all the good ones have to be discontinued! 😂😂

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Hi Ani! Yes such a shame this pigment is being discontinued…you can stock up though! My stock will last a couple of generations 😂😂

[@Jlalode]

I'm happy to see that the new version behaves like the old one. Thank for this comparison.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank to you Johanne for stopping by 😍. Have a lovely Sunday!

[@awatercolourist]

Hello Elisabetta! I don’t know if I have mentioned this on your channel before, but I believe W&N’s Permanent Alizarin Crimson has another pigment in it. According to Handprint, Permanent Alizarin Crimson is made of Quinacridone Pyrrolidone and PR206. Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is an earthy pinkish red pigment; I think that is why the paint is pinkish. I believe the new paint will also contain Quinacridone Pyrrolidone. Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is not on the Colour Index, hence the lack of pigment number.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Wow, this is quite an important information!! Thank you for sharing!! 😀

[@awatercolourist]

@@WatercolorElisabetta Always, always a pleasure!

[@awatercolourist]

Hello! I have an update about Quinacridone Pyrrolidone. I emailed W&N about it and they advised me that Quinacridone Pyrrolidone is PR206!! This information conflicts with Handprint. Not sure whom to believe here 🧐

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

@@awatercolourist I would believe to Winsor & Newton! Tomorrow I will search more info…thank you dear friend!!

[@awatercolourist]

@@WatercolorElisabetta Always, always happy to be chatting with you 😃

[@sonyaoart]

Looks like they did a great job matching the new version to the old one. That’s good to know. Thanks for the comparison!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank to you Sonya for being an active follower. It’s great! Have a lovely weekend!

[@creativecolours2022]

Hi. I have the old one that I bought some months ago and WN PR206 Perm. Alizarin Crimson doesn't look like at all to the newer one made by the same pigment that Elisabetta bought recently. Mine is more red rose and not a muted red brownish with blueish undertones. And it doesn't look at all as the PR179 one. I suspect that WN altered the hue of the final batches in order to switch without many complains to the PR179 pigment.

[@raychell1]

guardaaa! ma si hai trovato tutti due hahah I am in veneto, I have never been to Milan but if I ever get the chance I have to check that shop ^^ thank you for showing the comparison, I am glad the new version is so close to the original!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I was a bit puzzled!! I glad you liked the video and I feel reassured as well. Have a lovely weekend! Ciao 👋

[@morrisonwatercolors]

Hi Elisabetta. Another thumbs up for your videos! I checked my watercolor collection, I only have one Permanent Alizarin Crimson, it is from Daniel Smith and it has 3 pigments: PR 177, PV 19, and PR 149. I also recently bought Quinacridone Alizarin Crimson from Da Vinci, which is PV 19. Both are very similar in color. I like your W&N versions as much if not better. :)

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank you Morrison! Alizarin Crimson is such a classic! I use it a lot both in sky and for mixing purples…each brand is different and I find it fascinating….thanks for sharing your pigments!!

[@sararamer-dean7846]

Thank you!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank to you Sara and have a lovely weekend

[@arsinoe8336]

Oh you're so lucky to found a old tube. I'm a bit envious, because I ordered the color as soon as I head it's getting discontinued but I already got the new pigment. I find the PR179 in your comparison slightly more brownish and the PR 206 more on the pinker side. But I'm happy that they're very similar. Thanks for the comparison video 💜

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I’m sure that in some store (brick and mortar, not online) you can find one! But yes, the difference is irrelevant and the new one is just as beautiful! Thanks for your kind message! 😍

[@arsinoe8336]

@@WatercolorElisabetta probably yes but I live on the country side and we don't have any art stores here. Not even in the bigger cities. The only good ones i know are in Berlin and that's really far away from me. So sadly I have no chance to go to a store and an dependent on online shops 😔

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank you! I will look on Gerstaecker online store . 😃

[@arsinoe8336]

@@WatercolorElisabetta you're very welcome 😊💜

[@poppyhali3648]

What did you say the brush was you used in this video? I didn't catch the name, but it looks beautiful

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

It is a very beautiful brush indeed! It’s Unico Infinito. You can find it here: www.momarte.com/prodotti-per-pittura/pennelli-per-pittura/pennelli-sintetici/pennello-borciani-e-bonazzi-unico-infinito-serie-850.html?aff=44

[@bloody0thorn]

You should look into the liquitex gripr tube openers! They’re a life saver and so much better than pliers

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I usually don’t have problems with watercolour but gouache sometimes drives me crazy with opening tubes!! I need that opener you are suggesting and I will look into it right now! I hope to find it 😄 thank you sooooo much!! Have a great weekend

[@arsinoe8336]

I have one from Qor and it's so helpful and my hands hurt much less with the hard to open tubes

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I have looked up on Amazon and I couldn’t find one! May I ask you, have you bought it in Germany? At Gerstaecker? Thanks!

[@paulinabm_]

I’m glad they made a good match with the new pigment. I order the 14ml from amazon a couple of months ago. It just arrived home and I am not there to see which pigment I got. After I bought it I realized the seller was Jackson Art Supplies and as far as I know they have not had the old version in quite some time. So it is probably the perylene pigment.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Hi Paulina! They made a great job and you won’t see any difference! I’d love to know what pigment you get and what you think of it when you get home! A little suspense…thank you for your comment!

[@paulinabm_]

@@WatercolorElisabetta I will let you know once I'm there. Thank you for your videos.

[@paulinabm_]

@@WatercolorElisabetta well I was surprised with a PR206 tube. I'm not sure if the label matches the reality but either way, from your swatches I know there is hardly any difference.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I’m happy Paulina you got PR206! Lucky day 😊. Thanks for letting me know!

[@paulinabm_]

@@WatercolorElisabetta thank you! I'm excited to try it this weekend.

[@askialuna7717]

Great, thanks for the comparison. I was wondering if Winsor and Newton bought other perylene colours than the ones they already have or mixed the two existing ones for these colours.

[@raychell1]

That'd be interesting to know, regardless of the method they used they did it fantastically

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

It’s difficult to know! It’s a beautiful colour though and very consistent with the past!

[@debbrantstevens8826]

Wish you had used permanent alizarin crimson with pr206 and with pr179 Is the new version more like perylene maroon?

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Hi there! I am not sure I have understood your question…

[@vatiammatri]

Hi Elizabetta! I have both and really can't tell any difference, which is actually comforting. Maybe the 206 is a smidge warmer?

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Hello dear Vati! It’s quite comforting to see that I’m not the only one so obsessed with colours to have both 😂; and also to find them identical. You are not the only one to find a sight warmer accent in PR206 but is very very subtle…thanks a lot for sharing this! Have a great weekend!

[@vatiammatri2660]

You too! I think I had an older tube of Alizarin Crimson (the PR206) from a few years ago. I actually took a break from painting while caring for my dad and am now just getting back into it! So that's how I had a 206! I am pigment obsessed though 😂😂😂 Alizarin Crimson is my favorite color I think, at least in the magenta range. Too bad it's fugitive in so many iterations. As an aside, I pulled out my Sennelier test pack of 5 and am really enamored with that set, especially the Chinese Orange and the Payne's Gray. Have a great week!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Guess what? Sennelier has fantastic poetic incredible colours that really make me fall in love too! Have you seen my video about PO48 quin burnt orange? I’m swatching Chinese orange! Thanks for your message and I’m happy you’re back to painting 🤩

[@vatiammatri2660]

@@WatercolorElisabetta I've probably seen it but I will look for it again! I don't want to fall in love with Sennelier, lol. I think I would add a cobalt teal, a diox purple, and maybe a convenience green for a minimalist set 😂. And maybe a Quin rose or similar. 😂

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

😌Sennelier is irresistible 😳

[@norinjon3240]

I find this video very poorly color calibrated. The colors are desaturated and I can tell from that the skintone of your hand is way off. Thus, the result is not representative. So I did my own research. Managed to get a small tube of PR206 W&N 466 and a sample of PR179 one. There IS a significant difference. The 179 one is way cooler, even slightly cooler than W&N's own PR83 Alizarin Crimson and M.Graham's PR83. And the 206 one is duller, more red leaning and has a lower pigment payload. The drying shift is also more severe. I think the new version is more capable of being an alternative to the not so lightfast PR83. But again, they are not the same color.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I’m sorry you don’t appreciate this video. However I can assure you it’s not my camera, they were truly almost identical!

[@djhadaverde]

Hi Elisabetta! I only can compare my Sennelier one with my Schmincke perylene maroon PR 179 and they are different: my pr 206 is warmer and more towards brown and pr 179 is cooler and has more redish on it. I hope this helps! I also just noted that on my screen, they all look different as well! The configuration of your camera and the configuarion of my computer are not the same so it's different to see real colours. Maybe you could scan all your swatches and post them on your blog or something like that. Have a nice weekend!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I record with an iPhone with daylight and I’m considering to use a lamp….I still have to adjust my equipment maybe…. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It’s always enriching to read it. Have a lovely weekend you too full of colours 😄

[@alexandrag89]

What size of brush are you using? How do you like that brush? My local store has that same brush and I was gonna buy some on black Friday sale 😅

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

It’s a size 2 (quite a large one though). It’s a fantastic brush! My preferred one! 😍

[@letiziaguerrini82]

Molto interessante. Avrei gradito i sottotitoli in italiano. Letizia

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Grazie mille Letizia! Ma KZbin non li traduce automaticamente? Ora controllo. Grazie mille!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Infatti puoi mettere i sottotitoli in italiano dalle impostazioni! Buona visione

[@letiziaguerrini82]

Grazie Elisabetta per avermi risposto. Avrei da chiederti anche questo : sto usando gli acquerelli Maimeri Blu e mi trovo bene, ma a proposito del colore Cremisi Alizarina , in base al pigmento utilizzato da WeN. PR 179 la Maimeri lo utilizza nel colore chiamato Lacca di Garanza Permanente scura. Può essere considerato un colore equivalente? Letizia

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

@letiziaguerrini82 ciao Letizia ti rispondo subito! PR 179 è in verità perilene maroon, ed il tubetto che citi di Maimeri ha quella tonalità. W &N ha anche un colore che si chiama appunto Perylene maroon con questo bel rosso molto scuro. Poi usa lo stesso pigmento PR 179 trattandolo diversamente per un colore molto più rosato nell’alizarina…in sintesi quel colore di Maimeri è un rosso molto scuro, molto bello, ma diverso dalla Alizarina pur utilizzando lo stesso pigmento! Buona giornata spero di non averti creato ancora maggiore confusione 😂

[@letiziaguerrini82]

Ciao Elisabetta, mi sono imbattuta in un video di recensione sui vari Cremisi Alizarina di varie marche e avevano considerato il colore Lacca di Garanza Rosa 176 come equivalente della Maimeri. Tu cosa ne pensi? Grazie per lìattenzione rivoltami Letizia @@WatercolorElisabetta

[@debbrantstevens8826]

Can you please swatch all the winsor and newton colours with PR179? If the permanent alizarin crimson new formula is very similar to perylene maroon which was also PR179, I think I will change to fugitive alizarin crimson rather than have two similar colours. Personally I found this video quite confusing you referring so often to perylene maroon even though you were swatching permanent alizarin crimson. Sorry!

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I’m sorry if you found it confusing. I use the name of the pigment, PR179, which is Perylene maroon. Permanent alizarin crimson is the commercial name. As I will do a series about Perylene colours in the future, your confusion will hopefully be solved!!

[@awatercolourist]

Hello! I made it back from life 😂. So what did I miss?

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

So dear friend are you not commenting? I feel slightly betrayed 😄 I am looking forward to seeing your comment today!!

[@awatercolourist]

Betrayed!! We can’t have that! I’ll comment right away 🙂.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

🤗

[@MrsBarnabas]

Grazie per questo video, Elizabetta. Non posso trarre alcuna conclusione sui pigmenti perché era troppo aleatorio - non c'era la stessa quantità di pigmento rispetto all'acqua in nessuno dei campioni. La conclusione più importante che ho tratto è che Winsor e Newton sono nel settore della produzione di vernici dal 1832 e dispongono di tutta la tecnologia necessaria per poter distinguere la differenza tra due pigmenti. Conoscono anche la legge che vieta di etichettare erroneamente le vernici con due pigmenti come se avessero una sola tonalità. Anche se il pigmento non ha un numero, è necessario comunicarlo. È per questo che, ad esempio, il verde acqua è semplicemente etichettato come "Pthalo", perché non gli è ancora stato assegnato un numero di pigmento. È improbabile che abbiano ignorato questa legge per una delle due versioni del Permanent Alizarin Crimson. In conclusione, è necessario fare attenzione a questo genere di cose! Tradotto con www.DeepL.com/Translator (versione gratuita)

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I’m sorry that I have been misunderstood. What I was saying was exactly your point. I am absolutely persuaded that Winsor and Newton didn’t mislabelled the product. On the opposite, I am convinced they made a great job in matching the hues. Thanks for your comment.

[@MrsBarnabas]

@@WatercolorElisabetta 😊

[@creativecolours2022]

Hi..I have WN Permanent Alizarin Crimson PR206 and if for one thing it doesn't look so muted and brownish to say so as the one that you've bought recently and it definitely doesn't look like the PR179. At least the one that I have that is a tube from the same colour's older butches that bought six months ago. The difference is so visible that I suspect that WN altered the hue of the final butches of its PR206 in order to make it look closer to the PR179 and as such to switch easier from the one pigment to the other. I can post if you are interested a swatch of the WN Perm. Alizarin that I have in order to see the difference between the older PR206 and the one that you've bought recently. Here is a quick swatch of PR206 mixed also with PB29. (link towards upload image website). ibb.co/646jPj9

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

Thank you!! It’s more reddish actually…but I have confidence in Winsor and Newton…maybe I’m naive! Have a lovely evening 😍

[@creativecolours2022]

​@@WatercolorElisabettaI use this colour for quite some time and I'm certain about how it is supposed to look like. The W&N Permanent Alizarin Crimson was made after all to match the original fugitive Alizarin Crimson PR83 that is a red with pinkish undertones. The Permanent Aliz. Crimson PR206 alternative was a very good imitation of the fugitive PR83.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

I trust you! I own an Alizarin Crimson hue PR206 from cotman which I bought around 3 years ago. I will swatch it next to W&N p….but I’m not doubting your word!

[@creativecolours2022]

@@WatercolorElisabetta I've just replied on the other video. Perhaps it would be interesting to make a video talking about this matter. If you like I can send you a pan with the reddish Perm. Alizarin Crimson PR206 the artist version, in order to swatch it on camera side by side with the PR83 that you already have, the new tube that you 've bought and says that is a PR206 and the colour that says that is a PR179. It won't be that much of a problem to send it to Milan from Athens. Just in order to be consistent in your comparison and swatch the artist grade version of each colour. Just tell me if you are interested.

[@WatercolorElisabetta]

@@creativecolours2022 I can’t say no to such a kind offer! This is very nice of you! You can DM on Instagram if you like. Thank you! 🤩