Radagon - A Deconstruction of Villainy

[@c0n33r]

Mr 'I can fix this'. I can fix the golden order, I can fix Marika, I can fix the Elden RIng. I can fix my cursed kids.

[@blaquerose121]

It’s sad isn’t it?

[@Hexagonaldonut]

And in the end, he couldn't fix any of them.

[@mrsgamer9218]

​@@Hexagonaldonut just like Miquella :(

[@TheManWithTheFryingPan]

It is evident at last, Radagon's true inspiration... Bob the Builder

[@TheWeeb-j5g]

💀💀💀

[@SwagBroPlays]

The fact that Radagon has no dialogue and no recorded dialogue in history is so fascinating. Makes me wonder if he actually ever spoke or just silently rizzed his way across the Lands Between XD

[@lemon163]

Griffith strats

[@axios4702]

He must have at least said something to convince Rellana to marry him. Unless he just gave her "The Look" Slay the princess style.

[@themaniae4803]

@@SwagBroPlays Maybe he have a recordes dialogue. After all he's Marika, and Marika's dialogue in the church of Leyndell sounds a lot like from a Fundamentalist like Radagon. P.s: Bossfight is silent because Elden Beast is using his body like a shield/puppet.

[@marvinnovilla4918]

Imagine him doing hand signs to Rennala when he wanted to have kids 👉👌🍆💦

[@SwagBroPlays]

@@axios4702 That's my head cannon XD

[@CJusticeHappen21]

I think that Radagon's repentance may be the first incidence of forgiveness in the story of Elden Ring. He attacked Caria, failed, then apologized for his aggression. Not only was he forgiven, but this forgiveness led to peace between Caria and The Golden Order, the marriage of Radagon and Rennala, and the birth of Ranni, Rykard and Radahn. This means that the very concept of forgiveness, of redemption, did not exist in the story of Elden Ring before this. Marika does not forgive, she does not forget. Marika the Eternal is also Marika the Eternally Spiteful and Eternally Scorned, she neither forgives others for their transgressions, nor does she believe herself able to be forgiven for her own sins. She cannot even forgive herself. The closest the Golden Order comes to internalizing forgiveness is Miquella's Age of Compassion. But even that fails, because in his age, people would HAVE TO forgive. They wouldn't have a choice. And forgiveness without choice is just another form of Tyranny.

[@yurimaldonado4966]

Damn, you actually cooked

[@draw2death421]

What about the fire giants? To our knowledge they didint attack Marika so no forgiveness rule doesent really work there. Marika coudnt have been spiteful either. So it seems marika commited genocide on them for other reasons. Possibly due to fear or wanting total control. Either way thats evil.

[@vardiganxpl1698]

​@@draw2death421she basically enslaved the last giant. I don't think that is technically forgiveness

[@themaniae4803]

@@draw2death421 Well, like Gwyn, Total control is guided by fear. If you control it, that can't hurt you.

[@draw2death421]

@@vardiganxpl1698 yeah but the fire giants didint even do anything to warant forgiveness. We hear their god was a evil deity but we dont really see any evidence of that beside it being mentioned in item descriptions and even if the fell god was just pure evil, they still didint do anything on the Mountain tops lmao. They just hanged around untill godfrey and marika comited genocide on them. I might have misunderstod what you ment but to me it sounds like you ment Marika after this genocide forgave the last fire giant? Forgave for what? Fighting back from genocide?

[@ChefBoiRLiik]

I just realized how oblivious I was to the lore of elden ring and mythology. Cuz radagon is a red haired warrior with a hammer that slays giants like Thor

[@the-hermit-arcana]

He shares qualities with Loki also, being (possibly) of Giant descent, having shapeshifting powers, and being affined with wolves.

[@abrogee]

He also uses golden lightning in his fight too

[@Boogie_Woogie_Bugle_Boy]

Holy shit this insane. Now I'm imagine that he left behind a giant red goat to defend rennala in the academy😭

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@abrogeeNot a lot of people notice that after his health pool reaches half, he begins to fight in the style reminiscent of a lightning user. He literally becomes it with his teleport attack which might be a form of Honed Bolt, uses the Storm Stomp AOW, and manifests spears that have lightning sound effects. Apart from mimicking Godwyn in many ways, he has a statue in Stormcaller Church which could directly link him to the storm as well.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

And he wields lightning and can fly. Also, Godwyn has a lot of similarities with Baldur. A lot of this is strongly inspired by Gaelic/Celtic mythos.

[@timebomb4562]

I love how his curse is that he's a ginger

[@obezkr]

gingers have souls... dark souls?

[@pootzmagootz]

Truly a fate worse than death

[@mwmrhdm]

Radagon the Daywalker

[@dharma391]

Radagon of the Freckled Order

[@DefyReality-ll2cg]

I mean gingers don't have souls, that's a pretty cursed life right there.

[@danielferrieri7434]

Every Elden Ring Main Boss’s Weapon: Wields a power looking weapon with a lot of lore attached to it. Radagon’s weapon: Brick on a stick

[@RurouniiJay]

Its actually marikas hammer hes using. Radagons weapon of choice is his great sword of order, of which was originally was a moonlight greatsword that he converted into a golden order sword

[@Astoriastheabysswatcher]

Tbf wasn’t that brick on a stick used to shatter the Elden ring

[@pancakes8670]

Like a good blacksmith

[@KJean-f5p]

That’s the thing, he IS the weapon, to the Elden Beast.

[@dllps]

@@KJean-f5p No, the sword used by the Elden Beast is Marika. It's in the item description. Both Marika and Radagon were hounds of the Golden Order, Radagon was just the loyal one.

[@HealthyMaxwellRoth]

MF may have left sorceries behind, but he damn well remember how to parry it

[@themaniae4803]

@@HealthyMaxwellRoth Elden Beast uses his body, but something of him still remain to fight~

[@lemon163]

His incantations require knowledge of sorcery since golden order fundamentalism uses both intelligence and faith

[@themaniae4803]

@@lemon163 Especially Law of Regression that needs only Int.

[@nonstopnate.]

like most players he realized melee combat lowkey is kinda better and forces that playstyle, similar to moonlight butterfly forcing the player to learn to dodge sideways like in ds1

[@bb-sw6ur]

I interpreted Radagon's red hair as the presence of the Primordial Crucible persisting despite the Golden Order's tyranny. The Crucible is routinely associated with the color red, and the fact that Radagon's hair is red despite his unwavering loyalty to the Golden Order is a contradiction that probably bothered him a lot

[@Hexagonaldonut]

The Crucible Knights having red armor does seem like a very purposeful choice, considering they served Godfrey, so you might be onto something here!

[@nmbtw1003]

too wordy, he is simply a vessel for giants curse created by marika

[@Did_No_Wrong]

An interesting take, but not the real reason. Radagon had blonde hair before the war with the mountain giants. After or during the fight with the giants he had received a curse from the giants that changed his hair to a fiery red and gave him a weakness to Fire. This is actually communicated in gameplay because he also has weakness to fire damage of all types compared to other elements.

[@hobosorcerer]

He gets his red hair from the Curse of the Fell God, when Marika began a war on the Giants. Her casting Radagon aside as a second half is sort of her way of "distancing" herself from that curse, possibly like how Miquella separated himself from St. Trinia.

[@janinebelleestrada7096]

​@@hobosorcererdoes Miquellas other half st. Trina embodies love? I mean she still unrequitedly loves Miquella even if he tossed her at that bottom pit

[@arthurshaw2497]

I think Mesmer was given birth by Radagon and Marika before Marika married Godfrey as he was explicitly stated to be older than Radahn. he also knows what a tarnished is, and considering he has been cut off from the lands between well before the shattering and the return of the tarnished this can only mean he was around when Godfrey and his people were exiled. so no, Radagon did not have 4 children with Marika after he left Renalla

[@donimmortal7692]

Actually, with the Carian being part of his army, Messmer's crusade can only began after the Liurnia War but before the banishment of Godfrey. There is a cut dialogue on Messmer specifically said he learned about the Tranished from Miquella, although it was cut, it make sense when taking timeline into consideration.

[@ramoraid]

The golden order was preceded by the erdtree order which was led by marika and was the period of time when godfrey and marika united both in marriage but also their faction. Radagon, is not messmer's father, a lot of his story is tied to the Finger's and their hidden agenda to control marika, or at least confine and usurp her power. The duelist armor , colosseum lore and golden order principia have this truth and more subtly all the magic tied to radagon has the Finger's influence all over it. Messmer's father is someone tied heavily to the hornsent religion and their view of the spiral and use of spirits, messmer's ember is one clue of many. His not mention by name but he is depicted in enir-illim in a statue.

[@arthurshaw2497]

@@donimmortal7692 I agree Mesmer's crusade took place after the liurnia wars, but why does it have to be before the banishment of Godfrey? I mean, having Carians in his army has nothing to do with Godfrey does it?

[@arthurshaw2497]

@@ramoraid to me Mesmer's father is Radagon, human beings (or maybe numen beings lol) with godlike powers aka demigods have red hairs has only ever meant one thing in this game, that being they are offsprings of Radagon. it makes no sense to me that Mesmer, someone who is a confirmed demigod with extremely visible and pronounced red hair to be fathered be some random hornsent guy. I mean, yeah its possible, as Mesmer's father was not mentioned anywhere in the game, there is exactly 0 information about him, he might as well be related to hornsents, I just see no reason to suspect that

[@ramoraid]

@@arthurshaw2497 well the reason is simple his magic, how it manifest in the world and it's origins are much more important to the reality of who the parent is. Marika golden hair and use of holy is unique to her and Godwyn the golden and his of gold lightning is very much an indication of gold lineage. Radagon is a warrior and talented magician and both his direct children with Marika reflect that. Malenia is a fighter and Miquella created discus of light and improved it in the dlc. So what magical ties are there between Radagon and Messmer? does his magic reflect any imagery associated with radagon? The more you look into it the more you begin to realize he is tied to the hornsent, their magic and spirit knowledge. Almost like on his parents had a deep connection to the hornsent. We know Marika hated their guts and anything associated with them.

[@duncanmackenzie7795]

"We're going to listen to this turtle's dialogue..." well. That's a thing I heard and understood today.

[@c0n33r]

*Dog

[@NoirRaven]

We're talking about a mortal-born goddess that, somehow, dicked herself with a second personality made flesh and you think the talking turtle bishop is the _weirdest_ part?! 😂

[@austinorlando4326]

Turtle in a pope hat

[@quaker5712]

Likely dog

[@Reaper419Darkangel]

Ain’t nothing wrong with that

[@twistedturnip8487]

It is truly ironic that Radagon sealed the Erdtree to prevent anyone worthy, especially his own demigod children from entering, yet it was one of his demigod children that lead an unworthy tarnished through the land's between and burnt those thorns down, thus making even his final struggle for power an imperfect one.

[@Kurai_69420]

Radagon didn't even name his dog, absolutely diabolical

[@viobliterator]

Makes me glad that Rennala got custody

[@Souljaboyo477]

😂😂😂

[@noamias4897]

Maybe he was just shit at naming stuff and named it “Red Wolf”

[@abrogee]

It's interesting that the Radagon we see is broken and shattered, incomplete, despite his aspirations for perfection

[@themaniae4803]

@@abrogee And used as a puppet by the Elden Beast.

[@juvenalcesar1091]

​@@themaniae4803ikr like he couldnt be further from his goal

[@inkajoo]

When Marika spoke to Radagon in that quote, she wasn't referring to his potential, she was taunting him. At that moment, she was about to shatter the Elden Ring. He wanted control of the body, to stop her. Her point was, as a god, she was more powerful, and thus he would not be able to get control. By shattering the Elden Ring, since it was housed in the body, it hurt both of them, that is what she meant by "let us be shattered both." Moments later, thanks to a Marika now exhausted by smashing herself with a big hammer, Radagon got control and tried to use the same hammer to forge the fragments that flew out back together, but failed, and what was left was a broken Marika/Radagon with a heavily damaged Elden Ring inside. I'd imagine the punishment was then enacted swiftly by the Elden Beast.

[@battlericky17]

Makes sense

[@dsel307]

Destroying the elden ring in an act of spite. So he can never have what is rightfully hers.

[@PettyCrow-n9c]

It's more likely that she was trying to warn him. Much like St. Trina wanted to warn Miquella.

[@toastee5421]

and the rest was herstory

[@cynreiusacari3163]

@@PettyCrow-n9chard to say since we still don’t know the uniqueness of their duality. Natural or grafted? I lean toward grafted.

[@Vlaffffy]

I still think he should have been the only final boss and Elden Beast should have been a secret like the Moon presence.

[@NamelessKing1597]

Yeah like if you had the option to shatter the Elden Ring the rest of the way, choosing that option would require you to fight it because it IS the Elden Ring. The Elden Ring is intact in all endings including the Frenzied Flame ending (Melina couldn't grant you destined death if the rune of death was destroyed, it literally is just a reset button, the actual laws of nature, the Ring, stays intact, life just has to start over from scratch.

[@Sinhesthysia]

I really like that idea, especially the hollow, empty feeling an ending like that would convey, just seeing a broken body of a god and placing it's lifeless head back on its shoulders. It also could have opened the door to even more diverse ending cutscenes with more story implications.

[@Zythryl]

Or, some other condition like in a game with a “true final boss”, like if you accomplish everything possible. I think Kirby games have done this before to great effect, lmao. It would’ve been cool; because it gives the opportunity to have made both bosses even stronger. I’m still pretty happy with what we’ve got, though. A Lord, and then a God. Good thing we’ll never have to fight something that’s both at once, right? Right?

[@mannytprimeministerofthemanate]

I agree, I think that the elden beast should only attack the tarnished if they are going for the frenzy flame ending. It doesn’t really make sense for the EB to try to stop the tarnished if they are going to fix the elden ring and reinstate a new form of order.

[@wispfire2545]

@@NamelessKing1597 I'm not hundred percent sure about that the Elden Ring, which also is the Elden Beast, would have survived if Frenzied Flame took over. Greater Will, which had already abandoned the Lands between, probably would not have cared if everything that divided and distinguished went away, because it would not have been there to suffer from all melting to one again. Elden Ring/Beast would care because it would be in the blast radius. All other endings are fine, because they would all bring about a new order for the Elden Ring/Beast to govern over. Well, actually the Ring Beast (that's totally what Elden Beast's name could have been) would probably not have wanted Ranni's ending to occur either, because her ending would have circumvented it entirely, effectively making it obsolete to the happenings of Lands Between, or maybe even killing it somehow (though that's just something I'm pulling from my ass).

[@Fuqes]

I feel like Radagon leaving Rennala was most likely forced by Marika after Godfrey was ousted. If he loved her enough to grant her that power, support their children, and gift his wolf, it must have been a reluctant parting. Marika sacrificed her own child, she'd have absolutely no second thoughts about forcing Radagon to break his vow and become an Elden Lord

[@draw2death421]

Dont forget he also left her a rune of the erdtree. You dont just give someting like that to someone you dont care about.

[@themaniae4803]

@@Fuqes Marika is so asshole to even make suffer her other self.

[@PettyCrow-n9c]

That's almost certainly what happened. The DLC tells us that Marika's people had the ability to merge with others, she likely forced Radagon to merge with her. Radagon then hid this secret in the statue he had built.

[@Fuqes]

@@draw2death421 oh yeah, that's what i meant with the "grant her that power", should have been a bit more specific lol

[@GeneGear]

@@PettyCrow-n9c He didn't hide the secret, the stonecrafter accidentally uncovered the secret when making the statue, because by making the statue in Radagon's image so perfectly, the statue itself was able to turn into Marika. The stonecrafter suffered one of those really nasty fates for his "impudence." Marika and Radagon were always one and the same. They are a Rebus, and were deliberately formed by Hornsent Jar Alchemists trying to find the secret to creating perfect life. They were also allied to the Mountaintop Giants. Radagon likely has giant hair, because he is literally formed from giant organs. While the Shamans/shrine people were particularly good at being blended with other beings, the Hornsent had to learn of this property by blending other beings first. And it is never exactly stated who or what else the Hornsent were blending the shamans with...

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

I think the seduction and betrayal has been misinterpreted. The seduction was indeed Marika's when she "seduced" the Crucible into granting her godhood. However, the betrayal, from the Hornsents' perspective, was the Crucible's. They considered themselves a chosen people favored by the Crucible. So to see the Crucible grant its most precious gift to a Shaman, someone the Hornsent didn't even recognize as a person, would have flown in the face of everything they believed in.

[@XIII_Vanitas]

I'm not sure what you think the Crucible is, but it cannot be seduced.

[@OK25000]

In my interpatation, the betrayal, as seen by the hornsent, is the transformation of the crucible, into the erdtree. Forgoing the spiral for the tree

[@Warrior-Of-Virtue]

@@XIII_Vanitas It's the primordial source of all life which the Hornsent viewed as their God. Whether or not it "can" be seduced wouldn't change the fact that they "believed" it had been.

[@sebastianmorin9780]

@@Warrior-Of-VirtueExcept for the fact that there is a lot of in-game evidence that suggests the betrayal and blame was placed on Marika and her progeny.

[@comradecameron3726]

@@Warrior-Of-VirtueStop putting everything in quotes.

[@MarcellusMaize]

The last cherry on top that I noticed about the parallels between Messmer and Miquella is the fact that Messmer looks just like his Dad and Miquella looks just like him Mom. And Messmer, like Radagon stayed committed to the golden order no matter what when both had extremely valid reasons to rebel. They also both struggled with feelings of self hatred and inadequacy. But Miquella, like Marika sought to create a better way foward without the golden order and did terrible things in order to achieve a virtuous goal, he even has his own Maliketh in the form of Malenia.

[@jonathan0225]

add Ranni to this list and her quest to godhood removing the golden order and into the new age of stars free of the golden order's clutches, of freedom.

[@aydav]

And interestingly, there are items that suggest marika cared a lot about messmer and messmer has much love for her, so they shared a good relationship with each other, while there are items that show radagon and miquella had a good relationship as well. Even gifting things to each other. But in the end, miquella abandoned practicing with radagon and marika left messmer in lands of shadow

[@helwrecht1637]

I don’t think Marika wanted a better anything. She was selfish from beginning to end.

[@helwrecht1637]

@@jonathan0225her’s is not freedom, it was selfish escape and the dooming of the reat

[@jonathan0225]

@@helwrecht1637 perhaps. Some translation errors seems to tell her ending was to keep the golden order away and start anew.but i could be wrong for sure.

[@CrazyJay516]

The war against the fire giants was not defensive, preemptive maybe but the fire giants had neighbors and agreed to live alongside them

[@boxman7044]

Marika pulled a Vendrick ong

[@draw2death421]

Exacly it feels like this video tries to downplay Marikas actions a lot for some reason. Like the fire giants to our knowledge just chilled on the Mountain top without bothering anyone exept frost dragons. And then one day Marika was just: 'You know what whould be funny? GENOCIDE!'

[@boxman7044]

@@draw2death421 idk….the golden order cooperated with the hornsent and caria before attempting to wipe them out, doesn’t change how bad the order is. We simply don’t know enough about the giants to say they were innocent(I mean they chased out the Ice Dragons who originally inhabited the mountaintops so they sure aren’t saints we know this from BOREALIS'S MIST description), but we do know that their god (who a lot of other groups see as evil, the hornsent especially, to the point giant faces are on the Furnace Golems) is in direct opposition to the erdtree. The reason for the video ‘downplaying’ Marikas evil in this part is because her dialogue from that period showed her as a kinder and more hopeful person( still a pos but not at the level we meet her yet)

[@draw2death421]

@@boxman7044 we also know Fire Giants accepted carian Scholars as Neighbors. Id also imagine Frost dragons werent exacly friendly towards the giants either.

[@boxman7044]

@@draw2death421 Yes and the Golden order accepted the Carians and the Dragons we have no idea if those scholars were originally friendly. Also it’s stated the giants CHASED them off the mountaintops that implies they were the aggressors, and even if they weren’t, there’s only one frost dragon left in the lands between that we meet, so how can we say they are any different from the golden order leaving only one giant left? Just like the Hornsent the giants weren’t saints, they just lost a war. They very well might have threatened the erdtree just like they might have been neutral, but they were an undeniable and inevitable threat. Does that justify their extermination? Probably not but we just don’t know enough about them, but what we do know paints them in a very morally gray light just like the Golden Order and the Carians.

[@Forkuh]

Radagon is what Marika divested of herself to become divine. Much the same way Trina is what Miquella divested of himself. As with all things, they were eventually drawn back together.

[@themaniae4803]

@@Forkuh The point is, Miquella divided himseld because he's removing everything connected to the old Order and his love and humanity, something that, in the good and in the bad, leaded Marika and Radagon. Gods are too humans, as Golden Mask says.

[@TheodoricFriede]

I don't think that's true. I think Miquella divesting himself from Trina was his attempt to not repeat what he may have perceived as a mistake his mother made. I think that is specifically why that spirit mentions that abandoning his love was a mistake.

[@IndoManiac90]

Yeah this suggests that eventually at some point at least, Radagon had his own physical body separated from Marika, before they joined back together probably some time after he left Rennala

[@anonisnoone6125]

I don't think Radagon was a creation of Marika. I think he always was his own person but merged with her due to the Outer gods saying so.

[@themaniae4803]

@@anonisnoone6125 What do the Outer Gods have to do with Marika and Radagon?

[@dgalloway107]

The Fell God of Flame was said to have been felled by Marika herself. One eyed greatshield armor description. Just pointing that out right away that there is precedent for Marika being a great warrior.

[@themaniae4803]

@@dgalloway107 Marika: "I'm the good Goddess Marika, warrior of peace.... NOW EAT THIS SUCKER!"

[@Blopusanian]

Peak Marika is the strongest period. Godly physicality (she didn’t divest any of herself like Miquella), knows all sorceries and incantations, godly speed like consort Radahn, potentially thousands of years old. She can probably teleport like Radagon as well plus a bunch of other whacky shit.

[@PettyCrow-n9c]

Or, the fell god is Radagon and the stories of Marika defeating him are bs, like most of the stories we are told about Marika. Messmer has the face of the fell god on the fire golems that he uses as well which implies a connection.

[@Bigtwinkissac209]

it says believed but honestly knowing George works and Miyazaki it most definitely was Marika i don’t know why they just don’t put slain by Marika herself

[@scotcheggable]

Probably symbolic, as in the forces of Marika defeated the forces of the god of flame.

[@themaniae4803]

The curse of the giants about Red Hair can be read in another way. The last Giant is a slave of Marika, forced to keep the flame for eternity, cursed by the Goddess, exactly like Radagon, her Hound, and both share Red Hair. Also, everything in the Golden Order is, well, Gold, and everything about fire, and Red, is something bad for the Order. P.s: Is said that Marika Killed the Fell God, so i think yeah, she fighted too. And pretty hard.

[@CrowandTalbot]

I mean if Marika is capable of providing kindness without order, perhaps Radagon is capable of providing order without kindness and the inability to marry those to together is truly what pits Radagon against Marika in the end

[@draw2death421]

I find that kinda unlikely. We hear that Radagon and Miquella had a good relationship, they exchanged spells with eachother. Radagon also left his wolf and a rune of the erd tree to renalla upon leaving so he clearly did have feeling for her in some sense atleast. It seems Radagon was pretty kind mostly.

[@magiv7573]

I think the inverse could work though tbh One of marikas most defining traits are her aspects of callousness, vengeance, etc While only radsgon is shown clearly to have loved Maybe Just an off the cuff interpretation His delve into golden order fundamentalism is the same as his research to sorcery. Ravaging read hair means he's flawed at a base level in regards to the golden order and that extends to his core person. He may believe it bur not truly understand it. Driven by his perfectionist self he reaear he's fundamentalism for a greater understanding. Another way to look at it I guess Before the age of radagon Marika basically dictate all, as Godfrey doesn't strike me as a believer in order. Under her reign there was little true threat to the golden order It was under radagon then, who constantly battled for control, that the age ends Yes obv Marika is the one who shattered it, but I don't think that discredits her as being the embodiment of order of the 2

[@tiacool7978]

@@draw2death421 I don't quite agree with op, but Miquella is hardly a good representation of anything. Since he was trying to force "compassion" on everyone.

[@SaintMarianne]

Minor correction at 4:40 - Marika is stated to have struck down the Fell God of the Fire Giants. The description of the One-Eyed Shield reads: “Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.”

[@draw2death421]

Minor correction to you aswell saint. Fell god isint slain as we see he does still live in some form on the fire giants stomach.

[@Lucardini]

Maybe it's referring to the thorns that are impaling the Fire Giant corpses on the mountaintops. As if the Erdtree (Marika) itself has slain the Fell God (In the giants stomachs)

[@TheLastDragonborn1245]

“Slain by Marika” could simply mean it was ousted from influence.

[@HeevaEgo]

⁠@@TheLastDragonborn1245 I think this is more likely. We know that Outer Gods all once had physical forms before in ancient past (Fell God, Scorpion tail of the Rot God, and how “Formless” mother implies the existence of physically present Outer Gods). But, at the end of the day, Gods are Gods. Mortals “killing” them is not so simple. Marika likely had a direct confrontation with the physical embodiment of the Fell God at the Peak. Once she had “slain” it, it took root as a spirit into its children. This idea of a curse, or a god, existing even after its death is a prevalent theme with Elden Ring. In this game, these Outer Gods once had physical forms, but overtime they learned that, even in death, they will truly live eternally in concept

[@TheLastDragonborn1245]

@@HeevaEgo Yeah. That does make sense.

[@naughtiousmaximus7853]

I think her forcing Messmer to be her "sword" for Hornsent genocide and then abandoning him was what made all of her children get cursed. Even Godwyn is cursed with fate worse than Death. That crusade was so foul she had to completely erase both Shadowlands and Messmer from existance, she was ruthless.

[@tahaelhour690]

3:29 That is possibly false, in the church where you get the golden order seal instead of a sacred tear on altus plateau, you can talk to Melina to show you an echo of Marika's words, except now the way she talks is respectful, she doesn't just bark orders and demand her expectations to be met. Add to that no one knew of the division between Marika and Radagon. this leads me to believe that that echo was of Radagon, declaring his intent to search the depths of the order through fundamentalism scholarship. He speaks respectfully and even calls his audience comrades.

[@themaniae4803]

@@tahaelhour690 YES. FINALLY SOMEONE SAY IT.

[@tahaelhour690]

@@themaniae4803 The tone of Marika speaking really set me off on this one, she never talked like that in any other echo. Add to that you find a golden order seal instead of a sacred tear, the bounty of the erdtree, being worshipped there. that was a fundamentalist church of Radagon definitely.

[@blaquerose121]

I didn’t think of it like that, it would make sense. A lot of Marika’s words are almost… commanding? Straightforward? While that one is calm and states a fact to her men rather then kinda just say “go, die now” (I wish I had better words to describe it)

[@tahaelhour690]

@@blaquerose121 the word you're thinking of is arrogant. Marika always barks orders as if it's certainty that they're obeyed, this one church is the only exception and you find a Radagon seal in it, I don't think it's a coincidence.

[@blaquerose121]

@@tahaelhour690 I guess arrogant would fit

[@CleopatraKing]

A note on Radagons hair In the DLC we learn that before the age of the erdtree, in the age of the dragons and the crucible, Marika and radagon had another child. Messmer who also has red hair. perhaps his seeming hate for his hair was attributed to the giants, when in actuality, it reminds him of his son that they abandoned to wage bloodied conflict with no honor. and my note on ur observation that marikas children are cursed. They arent really, MArika had children with Godfrey(which would include godwyn) and that entire line of demigods, which the game explicitly states, was a great family diluted by generations. Thats where godricks inferiority complex comes from, comparing himself to his forefathers. Marika and radagons children are all curse. this is most definitely bc of Turbo incest, mixed with outer gods.

[@guilhermelamin9344]

And in the case of mogh and morgott being a omen isnt a curse, but someone that is blessed by the cruceble

[@CleopatraKing]

@@guilhermelamin9344 im marikas eyes it would be. A ghost of the sins she committed on the hornsent

[@Lucardini]

​@@CleopatraKingright but that seems like more a matter of perspective. While Malenia, Miquella and Messmer are more literally cursed. With Scarlet Rot, Eternal Youth and the Abysmal Serpent.

[@noamias4897]

@@LucardiniRot-worshippers like kindred of rot don’t see Malenia as cursed. And if you attack the hornsent grandam she has a line about “the curse of the omen striking you down” so Mohg and Morgott are probably cursed as well

[@0m3GAARS3NAL]

I just realized that the Radagon Icon shares the same themes of "a piece of a being left behind to sprout and be supported by a plant" the way St. Trina is...

[@ultragamer4465]

14:50 all due respect but you're making a big blunder here. Marika was never a scholar or intellectual figure. She has forever remained a saint/miko while Radagon is the scholar/yuusha. The misunderstanding stems from not realizing that the spoken echoes of Marika are also of Radagon because Radagon is Marika. After all what divine queen has comrades?? A champion on the other hand (who is later on known for golden order fundamentalism) would have many who fought alongside him. Marika shattered the Elden Ring because she lost the one thing she wanted to protect in her new age. Her family. The curses laid upon her children made them feel distant and a danger to her almost as if they would cause her downfall or that theyre symbols/reminders of her sins/pain. Messmer and Melina both bear flames that threaten her tree magic/Erdtree. Morgott and Mohg are both Omen (Hornsent) who were her family/clan's torturers.Malenia spread rot while Miquella was unable to grow (both cannot form true human connections). Godwyn was the only child who was pure and honest of character.He lived and died as the perfect example of what a demigod or even a human should strived to be. He was the only child of so so many who was free from the curses. Thats why she destroyed the world when he died. Her life's mission had failed. Radagon isnt one for such emotions. His life's mission was the society and order he built not his children or family who he would leave behind when his order was threatened.

[@themaniae4803]

@@ultragamer4465 Yep, exactly. I think Radagon cared a lot of hid family, even when he was forced to come back, but yeah it was him talking in the church.

[@logan2027]

I think this is a really strong approach and makes alot of sense, I'd only add that he atleast makes an effort with his children like the video points out. Even with both families though predominantly with his children that he had with Marika.

[@Gigawolf1]

The way you mentioned it made it sound like Messmer was born when Radagon married Marika, i.e. after he left Rennala. Some items have Radahn look up to him (and Gaius) as older brother figures. Since Radagon & Marika are the same, it seems more likely that Messmer (and Melina) are their oldest children. The fleshy mass she took hair from might be a jar shaman. If the Jar Marika theory is right, she might've been just one of many, and her taking the golden hairs (which end up resembling a Rune Arc when gathered) may be an essential step in her apotheosis (like a Rune Arc, she's using them to unlock the true power of the Great Runes/the Elden Ring within her)

[@Undriel]

28:40 It's possible Radagon had been given the same treatment as Messmer - as in, Marika 'blinded' him with grace and made herself a loyal puppet, making him leave Rennala. The description of Marika's Rune says that it blinds even the very best.

[@dominicmarazita8103]

It's kinda implied that that scarseals and soreseals are Marika and Radagon's eyes or at least representing their eyes, and both seem to have lost their eyes. The seals seem to be emblematic of the Greater Will's control of them, or the "prison" or godhood. Or you could compare them to the false eye that Messmer has, that sealed away the Abyssal Serpent.

[@fourdayz1414]

0:01 Think I have to agree. Queen Marika really is the type to have “two as-“

[@ningus223]

Which "as-" did you want?

[@SeveralRatsEachWithArcanePower]

...Would? ...Will? No.... GREATER WILL 😍🍑🥵💖

[@blodiaaa6990]

Find God

[@IHATEMUNDAY1234]

@@blodiaaa6990you find him first

[@demitrischoenwald1436]

Instructions unclear: found the Elden Beast instead.

[@lfestevao]

25:50 - Radagon gifted her the egg. It's possible the rune was put there by Ranni later, considering the 2nd phase is a memory spell with her own words as one more layer of protection on the very thing she knew her mom would always keep close.

[@chancecolliins8916]

Oh hell yeah, right as I’m about to take a prework nap

[@buffoonustroglodytus4688]

Hope that nap left you well rested

[@chancecolliins8916]

@@buffoonustroglodytus4688oh it was a fat one, thank you brother

[@midgematic8659]

I really like the connection of Radagon's children and himself being their ambition. You could say that the reason that his children are wannabe usurpers (at least for Ranni and Rykard) is also directly from Raddagon who wishes to usurp Marika's place as the God of the Eldin Ring. They are truly his children in nearly every way. Man I love this game

[@themaniae4803]

Yes, the sealing of the Erdtree was a villainous and egoistical act, about this i'm totally ok, but i want to put a couple of things about it. First, all his life he was uncomplete, a servant, a second best, the Hound of Marika, and in the end she even tried to kill both and, possibly destroy the world. After a life like that he tried a last resistance to not be just an object to remove. Even because, to have a succecssor we should kill him. But, most importantly, in the end WE DON'T FIGHT RADAGON. Let me explain. As you said, Radagon studied everything, Incantations and Sorceries, and even during his Golden Order age he was a schoolar. Fundamentalism incantations works with Int and both Laws uses ONLY Int, so he kept his Int. Yet, he don't uses any Sorceries against us... in truth, he don't uses even Spells, he slams the hammer down, teleport and slams pieces of runes everywhere. And, that shadow that fills him and then go out when we defeat him, from that shadow the Elden Beast emerge, taking the broken body and turning it into a sword, an object, the real thing Radagon didn't wanted to be. Also, japanese translation, again. Boss name is not Radagon of the Golden Order, is Radagon, Golden Order. It's a stupid difference, but very big, because it sais he's not defending the Golden Order, he is the Golden Order. And what we know as a Embodiment of the Order? Right, The Elden Beast. The Elden Beast, after punished Marika, uses Radagon's body as a puppet to defend herself and fight us, until we defeat the puppet and fight her for good. This explain why he uses only Elden Ring magic and don't talk, in a world where every single boss talks when we fight them.

[@astral-juggernaut]

This is a really interesting find, and it's a shame that they changed the boss name.

[@astral-juggernaut]

And if this is true that means radagon failed to become more than a servant. Now serving as an unwilling vessel of the elden ring itself, with no choice in the matter. Similar to what happens to his son Rudon in the DLC.

[@themaniae4803]

@@astral-juggernaut Japanese is a damn strange and complicated language. No surprise a lot of theories are borb just because a word. And some things about Dlc and fingers are even worse.

[@themaniae4803]

@@astral-juggernaut Exactly. The tragedy of a character who wanted freedom and ended as a damn object.

[@sojinnn]

Not dampening your theory, but Radagon does use spells against you. He uses rings of light and lightning.

[@jakobrenner2230]

Lord Radagon is such a cool mysterious character. I view his unseen arc as a cycle (tying into his theme of Causality and Regression): He was conceived as a resource and tool, developed as a warrior and leader during the Liurnian Wars, grew into a father and husband as a Carian lord, and finally became a king and sage as the second Elden Lord. But because he misinterprets his understanding of unity and sacrifice as his source for progressing the Golden Order at the expanse of everything else, it dooms him to forever remain a tool of it in the end. I hope you do Godfrey some time in the future. He may not be as complex but offers a thematic perspective of the Tarnished's struggle and the game's interpretation of the balance between bestiality and nobility. Based video, as always! Cheers!

[@themaniae4803]

Wrong transaltion for the Golden Order Greatsword. From Japanese: A great sword of light modeled after the Elden Ring One of the "legendary weapons" forged as a symbol by King Radagon, who upheld the Golden Rule(Golden order) fundamentalism It is said to have the appearance of a great sword given to him by his first wife, Rennala. First, connection Radagon-Fundamentalism. Second, it's not forged using the Moonlight, but in the appearance of the Moonlight. It's not erasing the memory of Rennala, but forged a sword to remind her forever. (Even because, the Moonlight is one, the one Ranni give to us.) For his use of only Incantation we'll talk later.

[@Nizati]

It seems like both Merika and Radigon had a good thing going for them. They had a spouse that balanced them. They had what looked like relative peace through their lands.... What if........ they didn't have a choice. What if they were slowly being forced back together and could no longer keep their double lives. So, forced to co-rule, realized they were miserable together, so started to look for some way to freedom. Radigon, wanting to be a complete being on his oen, probably so he could go back to his wife and life, started trying to use the golden order itself to somehow stabilize them as seperate entities. Merika, in the other hand started to regret everything, tired of her cage as a god and wanted to just undo herself completely.. one wanted death. One wanted to walk away as their own person. But neither get their way. In the end, you fight the non-god Radigon, and he dies.... leaving Merika alone, trapped in her godhood, unable to do literally anything... including dying.

[@Chyguy]

This is a phenomenal video and it really helped me flesh out my own pre-existing thoughts on who Radagon was. Elden Ring is a story of flaws, and Radagons flaw was striving for perfection.

[@filipporapetti9354]

I think Messmer (and possibly Melina) was born before Radagon was sent to Liurnia, because it is stated (in Commander Gaius's rememberance iirc) that Radahn considered him an elder brother, so it wouldn't make sense for Messmer to be born after Radahn. This also has the hilarious implication that Marika cheated on Godfrey...with herself

[@noamias4897]

I think it also supports why Marika is called a strumpet because she has children where nobody knows who the father is, just that it wasn’t her husband-to be

[@yukyusnow117]

Thank you for making me realized that Radagon was not just Marika’s pawn and secret identity, great vid as always

[@SmallOneEyedKing]

37:30 The line you said the Godhood is a curse. It reminded me what Duality represent in Marika and Miquella It was explained like: Marika was Betrayal Radagon was Loyalty Also another peepective Marika was Causality Radagon was Regression Miquella was Compassion St. Trina was Love It's like Yin and Yang one can't live without the other. And discovered in the dlc the secret rite scroll that in order to Ascended to Godhood needs to have a lord. Even though Marika banished his first lord Godfrey, she still needs a replacement lord to rule over the lands between.

[@zaphael7238]

People keep forgetting the part about the return of a god needs a Lord soul and a body, not the steps to becoming a god. Miquella was not a god not even close. He was more like Serosh imo.

[@Eric188092]

@@zaphael7238 Miquella was as much a god as the Elden Beast was, going by the remembrance and the victory message that pops up after felling the Consort.

[@SmallOneEyedKing]

@@zaphael7238 Then why after defeating them why is it God Slain. Also if Miquella is limiting Radahn why is he more powerful in phase 2.

[@kingdomcome3914]

​@@SmallOneEyedKingBecause Leda intercepts the Tarnished to prevent them from interfering with Miquella's ascension to godhood. The Tarnished is essentially too late to stop the ascension process, and has to deal with a freshly recreated Radahn and then Miquella's entrance into the battle.

[@dannygonzalez24]

Since marika is basically a living crucible it is obvious that she would defy the golden order since she is a horrific amalgamation. And since she is composed of so many creatures and people from the Bonny village pot experiments maybe radagon is one of the many people that inhabit her.

[@themaniae4803]

@@dannygonzalez24 Jar Saint is a mistranslation. Nothing divine about being put in a Jar, just an excuse to punish criminals and make them "Good People".

[@wojciechmazurk5468]

Marika was never in jar rotual it eas debunked so many times it is annoying by now

[@Farron6]

Was looking forward to this. Well crafted video with lots of supporting evidence defending the points you make. Refreshing to see you highlight where your points of view have diverted or evolved from proof videos. In short, praise the video.

[@jrmungandr_4404]

In addition to sealing the Erdtree, Radagon, while repairing the Elden Ring, put his own cross pattern rune, his ideas and vision, into it. It can be seen during the boss fight and in the title screen, and is absent in the depiction of the Elden Ring from the time of the ancient dragons in Maliketh's arena. This in my opinion is the reason why the Elden Beast fights the tarnished. It is enforcing Radagon's vision of him being the only wielder of the Elden Ring's godly power.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

Most likely the case and why Elden beast fights in the first place.

[@themaniae4803]

@@jrmungandr_4404 Or, that set of runes started to appear on the Elden Ring as Radagon's power was growing. He uses it as symbol for the eyes like Marika did for her own rune, and yet he's not a God and his runes shines weaker than the rest. For the Elden Beast this is a nice theory, as she's the Embodiment of the Order, but also, she's an harmed beast after all, using Rad as a puppet before fight us for real.

[@djsksad1957]

Another point to your analysis is the fact that in the japanese version of the game, above his healthbar Radagon is named Radagon, The Golden Order. Therefore proving the fact that at this moment in Elden Ring history, Radagon is the only one that sustains the Golden Order.

[@themaniae4803]

A little fun fact abou the Rune of Reborn. First, inside the Egg you can see red hair and Rennala have 4 cradles behind her head. This means that inside the Egg there is also what remain of a fourth children of them. Also, Radagon gave the Egg and the Rune to Renalla a LONG before the Shattering. This means, or he was capable to take it away from the Elden Ring, or Marika used that Rune to create and give a form to Radagon, so that was his rune and, well, it was a very, very, VERY precious thing for him.

[@rozu7772]

Zullie did a video on this. The hair is actually black (it looks red because of lighting) and is a leftover texture from infant sweetings that were supposed to be inside the egg during the cutscene but were removed. I think the sweetings in the egg can still be seen in the fight though.

[@cincameron]

It is very fun hearing so many differing opinions on Radagon's story since he has always been more of a mystery than Marika or Miquella--especially now that the dlc has given us more context on both. Though I will say I am mildly disturbed that no matter where I look, everyone is of the shared opinion that "Radagon is Marika" means that Radagon and Marika have ALWAYS been the same entity. I know I said it on your Marika video, but I am of the opinion Radagon was not originally part of Marika, but instead aspired to BECOME what she is. After all, Marika is the face of the Age of the Erdtree and Golden Order, and we are given many clues on Radagon's obsession with the Golden Order--the most prime example being the portrait of him posing while looking onto the Erdtree. I believe the sculpture of himself in Leyndell is supposed to tell us that he intends to be rid of his current self and become Marika/God. He is one with Marika by the time the Elden Ring is shattered, thus "Radagon is Marika". There's also the matter people seem to forget that the Elden Ring is inside Radarika's (yes) body when we enter the Erdtree and face them. This is massive. As shown in the 2019 trailer and the introduction slide-show in-game, the Elden Ring is shattered outside of Marika/Radagon's body. I believe Marika lost her will over the latter parts of her rule due to numerous factors you brought up (Demigods being crazy/problematic, Godwyn's death if she didn't play a part in it) so it would make sense for Radagon to attempt to act on her lowest point. We see from the Main Menu and Radagon's model itself that the Elden Ring is bound together by his seal. He even sealed the Erdtree so none could enter. It would be safe to assume he has a spell that allowed him to merge with Marika and assume control over her body. The Elden Ring was the crown Marika adorned through her rule. I like to think this way, at least. It's more interesting and sensible than just assuming 2 halves of the same being just having complete opposite goals and ideologies. Also, side-note, but Messmer being implied older than Radahn tells me Radagon must have had an affair with Marika whilst she was wed to Godfrey, and this would explain a lot about why she had Omen Twins with Godfrey. Messmer and perhaps Melina being conceived before the Omen Twins would give us context about Hornsent G calling Marika a Strumpet and being struck with the Omen curse.

[@Viiile]

How would you define regression? why would the law of regression show radagons statue turning into marika. for me the best explanation is that marika was before radagon and he didnt exist as an entity on its own before but she became him or he was created as a second identity. That would be the most literal interpretation for me at least. But I'm super curious what your opinion is on that

[@cincameron]

@@Viiile The dlc makes no reference of Radagon in any way, so Marika being Radagon before becoming God makes absolutely no sense, especially since there's more implications he was "created" after the slaughter of the Fire Giants (at least in the sense he isn't mentioned any time before the 1st Liurnian War) The Law of Regression turning the statue back to Marika suggesting that they were always the same is such a flawed idea. Convergence is the key idea of Law of Regression. Radagon is responsible for a lot of the fundamentals of the Golden Order and created most of its incantations (from what we know, at least. He collaborated with Miquella on the Golden Rings). Convergence/Pull could be seen in Radagon drawing Marika and the Elden Ring into himself. His "secret" could easily be interpreted as his desire to become Marika/God. And also Marika falling to her fate as a Shaman anyways--turned into an amalgamation against her will.

[@tylerpetersen6226]

One thing to note Radagon did achieve godhood eventually in the sacred relic sword it explicitly names him as a god. "Sword wrought from the remains of a god who should have lived a life eternal."

[@jordancave3089]

Yeah, but that’s Marika though, is it not? That’s why it’s golden and not red lol

[@tylerpetersen6226]

@@jordancave3089 No it is Radagon's body only that was made into the sword we are seen putting Marika's body back together in any of the age of fracture variation endings. The Elden Beast extracted Radagon from Marika and turned him into the sacred relic sword it wields during its boss fight.

[@themaniae4803]

@@tylerpetersen6226 Also, the Eye talisman says Gave to those choosen by the Gods. If Radagon can give that to others like Marika do, this means he's close to Godhood. Same body after all.

[@voraito]

​@@jordancave3089 The Relic Sword has a very clear red segment that transitions into a pinkish hue, like rose gold (copper-gold alloy) and more importantly red gold is the color of the pre-erdtree crucible

[@jordancave3089]

@@voraito I’m looking at it right now and I don’t see even a hint of red? Lol

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

Always wondered if Radagon was a dwarf fire giant, shunned by the other giants for being small. It would explain: 1) Why he has red hair, like the fire giants 2) Why his son, Radahn, just wouldn't stop growing A lot of people these days seem to think that Marika and Radagon were _always_ one, but I'm dubious. For one, there's these hints that Radagon is a fire giant, for two, the DLC revealed that Marika belonged to a group of beings whose flesh was able to 'meld harmoniously' with others. I suspect that Marika hated the fire giants because they were a threat to her Erdtree, and Radagon hated the fire giants because they spurned him for being small, and they both met each other and were like, "You hate the fire giants and love gold? I hate the fire giants and love gold too! We should totally *_merge into a single being."_*

[@pustuleofyelough]

I think there’s also an implication that Rykard was/became blonde later on in life.. which may play into why he looked into the secrets of GO and helped his sister with the Assassination plot. All the portraits we see of Rykard within his Manor depict him with blonde hair.

[@Cathart1c]

I'd add two things. First, the fact that Radagon, before the Shattering, gave to Rennala a GREAT RUNE suggests that he already had huge power and everyone in the world who knew about this present should already have been very suspicious about who Radagon really was. Second, the sword of the golden order can be found in the cave in Consecrated snowfields and is being wielded by misbegotten who happens to be red haired (also there is another Red Wolf nearby which is very curious) and that provokes some interesting implications.

[@dominicmarazita8103]

The misbegotten crusader I think serves Miquella actually. You find another Misbegotten crusader, albeit a phantom on the way to Trina who drops in of Miquella's incantation. Remember, Miquella was Radagon's son and once a prominent Golden Order Fundamentalist. So it might have been a gift from his father, which he later gave to the misbegotten when he gave up on the Golden Order for Unalloyed Gold.

[@Cathart1c]

@@dominicmarazita8103 I'm pretty sure this sword belonged to Radagon

[@dominicmarazita8103]

@@Cathart1c I said Radagon could have given it to Miquella. But tbh the theory is a bit of a stretch, since the description of the sword is more focused on Radagon's ownership of it and that it was originally a Carian Sword. Leonine Misbegottens are pretty strange in if themselves, considering their tendency to have legendary swords and their seeming connections to Golden Order Fundamentalism, as compared to their lesser winged and scaly brethren. It's similar to the connection between Demihumans and the primeval current.

[@ThisIsPampkin]

@@dominicmarazita8103 this theory makes sense considering Miquella's goal is to create a new age that embraces everything, the age of compassion as he said; which means Misbegottens no longer being shunned.

[@themaniae4803]

About the Sword monument, translation from Japanese: "The First Liurnia campaign Red-haired Radagon, becomes a champion" And the Incantation to Spell protection say the same thing, so Radagon """officially""" became a Champion during these wars, not during Giant war.

[@Outside85]

I still wonder if Radagon really has as much agency as we think. Like Marika appears to have been free to do whatever atrocity she wanted to commit as long as it was in the name of the Greater Will... but possibly there was a tipping point in the banishment of Godfrey? Since she didn't send him to sort out the Carians? Or perhaps its just her pattern of betrayals of those committing genocides in her name? possibly Radagon could have suffered the same fate if he had managed to exterminate the Carians, like Godfrey did the giants and Messmer the Hornsent? Somewhere I dont think it was Radagons own choice to abandon Renalla, but more like a reaction to Marika starting to break with the Two-Fingers and the Golden Order... they are the ones pulling him back to Leydell to regain control of Marika and it works for a while. Then Ranni instigates the Night of Black Knives sending Marika over the edge and smashes the Elden Ring. This is where Radagon looses himself completely to the Greater Will and is in fact little more than a puppet now, imprisoning Marika and himself in the Erdtree while waiting for the 'hail mary' Tarnished to show up with all the Great Runes needed to put the Elden Ring back together. This ofc does not match completely in terms of time, since we are lead to believe Renalla got her Great Rune from Radagon... but I think there is room to suggest that the other great runes were claimed by those who found them and had the strength to hold onto them, Radagon simply claimed one and had it sent to his ex-wife, perhaps as a last conscious act of his own? Or possibly as part of the Greater Wills intended plan to have it out there for the Tarnished to find?

[@x_Skeleton_x]

You did a great job with this video on Radagon. I always kind of liked him, but your characterization has been excellent. He’s very much a tragic hero.

[@abdieljove2011]

I dunno, I think Radagon is certainly an antagonist, but the closest thing to a true villain we have is Metyr. And she was broken and insane after losing contact with the Greater Will. Maybe the Greater Will as a greater scope villain. Maybe. But its involvement is so indirect it’s hard to say anything for sure.

[@draw2death421]

Id still consider marika more of a antagonist. If for nothing else then Genocide towards Fire Giants who as far as we know were peacefully living in Mountain tops. Also locking Morgott and Mohg in the sewers and using Messmer as a vessel for the serpent and as a Tool she abandoned. Marika seems way more evil than Radagon. Atleast Radagons excuse is that marika tries to control him and take away his own self. Marikas defense is that Hornsent were horrible towards her and her people. But that doesent explain why fire giants were on the choping board.

[@themaniae4803]

@@abdieljove2011 What means Villain in this case? The most evil one? The final menace? Or the one who set the things in this way? If we talk about pure and simple being evil, the Worst is Rykard. Marika is terrible, yeah, but at least she have the motivation of Conquest, Securuty and Revenge. Rykard victims are made just for Sadism and the joy of Blasphemy. In game Radagon is our mostly obstacle for the end, while Marika set the world in this way, creating a Order and then smashing it.

[@abdieljove2011]

@@themaniae4803 As far as "main villain" goes, I’d consider the one who set the events in motion. That’s why I say Metyr. She was the power behind Marika, guiding her through the Two Fingers. In fact, every empyrian was a potential pawn for her. I’m not excusing Marika, but at one point she was just a traumatized shaman girl and the two fingers offered her a way to achieve godhood and get revenge. All so, Inpresume, Metyr could impose Order on the world in hopes the Greater Will would speak again.

[@themaniae4803]

@@abdieljove2011 I'm not sure Metyr even know something about Marika and Golden Order. Fingers helped and guided Marika in some way, i heard translation in that part was damn bad, but Metyr? All we know about her was that she's the mother of the fingers, at some point she was abandoned and never able to create more fingers, just fingercreepers. Even because, if Metyr was the one of guided the fingers acting as the GW, why she remainded silent during the last part of the game?

[@abdieljove2011]

@@themaniae4803 I have no idea. But we do at least get a hint of a character who blames Metyr for everything. Ymir. Granted…he’s nuts so take that with a grain of salt lol. But I think it makes sense that if Metyr herself hasn’t heard from the GW, the Fingers certainly haven’t. Thus the likely candidate for the one talking to them supposedly on behalf of the GW is Metyr. But other than that…I doubt we’ll ever know anything for sure.

[@co_iso]

44:28 morgott is an omen. if anything radagon didn't let him in because of that fact alone. he may have been a good parent, but morgott was not his child

[@archdiangelo7930]

With regards to the cursed children thing, I have a slightly different hypothesis. I think that the reason Radagon's children with Rennala aren't physically cursed (although you could make the argument that their inherited ambition is a more nebulous curse considering where they all end up (Rykard gets himself eaten and then murdered, Ranni kills herself and gets hunted by the Two Fingers before embracing a self-admitted and self-inflicted fate of horrid loneliness for a thousand years, and oh BOY does Radahn go through hell)) is because he had cleansed himself of his sins at the Church of Vows. But when he left Rennala, breaking his vow, all of that sin came back with interest, and as a result Miquella and Malenia suffer from FAR worse curses than Morgott and Mohg had. Assuming Messmer and Melina's father is also Radagon, their curses serve as evidence as well, with Melina being "burned and bodiless" and Messmer being inhabited by the Base Serpent. Radagon _is_ cursed by his own deeds, just like Marika, and it does manifest beyond his hair, he just absolved himself of it for a time before turning around and making it even worse. Also, I have a _potentially_ better way of discerning that Messmer and Melina are Radagon's kids than just Messmer's hair and process of elimination: their names. The different groups of kids all have different naming patterns: Godfrey's kids and descendants (not counting Nephelli since she's his descendant as Hoarah Loux specifically) all have a G somewhere in their name (Godwyn, Morgott, Mohg, Godrick); Rennala's kids all start with R (Radahn, Ranni, Rykard); and Radagon's explicitly stated kids with Marika both start with M and have no G (Miquella, Malenia). In fact, the children of Godfrey who are cursed by Marika's sins (Morgott and Mohg) start with M just like Radagon's kids with her, but they retain the G from Godfrey, showing that while they're cursed children of Marika, they're also Godfrey's kids. All that established, Messmer and Melina both fall in the same pattern as Miquella and Malenia, starting with M and lacking a G, marking them as Radagon's kids. It's kinda like how in Dark Souls Gwyn's descendants all had Gwyn in their names (Gwyndolin, Gwynevere, and Gwynsen being a hypothesized name for the Nameless King), or how every knight of Catarina starts their name with Sieg (Siegmeyer, Sieglinde, and Siegward). It makes sense this sort of patterned naming would reappear in Elden Ring.

[@gerdybird5457]

We need a lore video on Gideon the "All-Knowing" because given all the gods and characters storys, his choices and dialogue make no sense. It also pokes a hole in your marika wants to die thoery.

[@the-hermit-arcana]

Messmer is before Radahn, it says that the former "acted as an older brother" to the latter. Either Marika and Radagon got it on while she was still with Godfrey (possible; she is called "wanton" and a "strumpet"), or Messmer has a different father. I suspect that because of his loyalty and fervor, Radagon was actually forcibly (or at least strongly suggested to) merge with Marika by the Elden Beast after she decided to question the Golden Order. That's possibly why Radagon's Rune (seen on his Scarseal) is so similar to the rune carved onto the Jar Innards in SOTE, it's a rune that merges multiple beings into one and why he left his beloved first wife and children: the Overgod asked it of him, and of Marika. An archaic meaning of "converge" is "to make similar/develop something in common", so the phrase of "yearning to converge" could also refer to our desire as people to have friends, allies, family, people who we can trust and work together with rather than a literal convergence. Really nice video, probably my favorite of those you've done so far.

[@ramoraid]

Messmer father is depicted in enir-illim, how did Marika even learn of the gate and its use. That needs to come from someone in the know and of high enough status to know such sensitive matters.

[@sorarira3120]

Why does everybody ALWAYS forget, what Melina tells us about herself? In Melina's own words: Your seamster, Boc... I see him crying, from time to time. I think he misses his mother. He wants someone to tell him he's beautiful. Does being born of a mother... Mean one behaves in such a manner? She has no father. And she was not born of a mother. she knows nothing about the feelings of those who were born of a mother. She does not know how it feels because she was not born. She was created by Marika somehow, that's why she considers her to be her mother.

[@sagearmaggedon7307]

I admire radagons fighting spirit. People give in to the whims of certain forces too readily. Just as change is inevitable, it is inevitable that someone will arise with the resolve to resist it. Maybe radagon just was not that one….

[@Jentrasa]

These are some of the best Elden ring lore videos I’ve ever seen. Thank you for this great content.

[@EmissaryOfStuff]

As I've said for a long while now: Radagon is the main antagonist of the game or at least, the closest to it.

[@pancakes8670]

You'd think him being the final boss would tip players off

[@PowerSenpai]

@@pancakes8670 Well the actual last boss is the elden beast

[@BehuraStudio]

Yeah he’s like Sauron, 99% unseen but his presence felt Hell he even manipulates the secondary villain Gideon

[@draw2death421]

Over Marika who genocided an entirely race of giants who did nothing but chill on the Mountain top? I kinda have to disagree with Radagon being the ultimate evil lmao.

[@BehuraStudio]

@@draw2death421 not who’s the most evil, just the main antagonist of Elden Ring’s storyline… he’s the main villain since he’s the one directly opposing the Tarnished from ending his age, all the way to the Tree Sentinel we first meet

[@RurouniiJay]

I think marika has had multiple genocides committed, abandoned four children, had one killed, only ever championed one of her children, shes only ever committed sin after sin.

[@jordancave3089]

Multiple?

[@RurouniiJay]

@@jordancave3089 the genocide against the hornsent, the crucible followers, the giants, the dragons, the divine beasts

[@Meatmeballs-arecool.]

@@RurouniiJay No it would be the hornsent giants merchants and you can throw in the omen

[@chancetherappersburner6338]

​​@@RurouniiJay>Hornsent >Crucible "followers" >Divine Beasts Pick one bruh, they're literally all the same thing. And where did you get that about the dragons? First time hearing something like that

[@themaniae4803]

@@RurouniiJay Giants. Hornsents. The wars of Liurnia and Limgrave and whatever was Caelid before Malenia. The Tarnished sent to war outside the Lands Between, the killing of Omens and possibly Albinaurics. Dragons attacked first so that's not on Marika's sins. Maybe the genocide of Snakes before their reborn with Rykard.

[@sirbeksoniv2907]

Could you imagine instead of elden beast we had Radagon breaking down into tears and using sorcery in his 2nd phase

[@lmelki89]

Radagon had a good life with Rennalla and was called to duty by Marika, forsaking his family for her. He always followed the Golden Order faithfully. And then Marika just goes "guess I'll die then" and shatters the elden ring? I would be pissed as well. Were all of his sacrifices all for nothing? No surprise that he was desperately trying to keep the Golden Order till the end. He needed to believe that it wasn't all for nothing, that Marika was wrong. Sadly, she wasn't...

[@boxguytv]

If Marika is a successful jar person, then it makes sense her kids all seem cursed. She has the genetics of many creatures, and each child took on a very particular part of that. This meaning omen, snake and what not. Radagon is likely just the Trina of Marika, he is loyalty, she let goe of that part of herself and now she betrays everything

[@franciscomartinez2893]

Dude I've been waiting for this once since the last vid, love the deep dive analysis

[@Damienx247]

Going by the timeline you portrayed in this video I leave this theory that Radagon's actions are based from the mindset of a man who was ultimately...... Hollow. Imagine, until Marika took up godhood, he did not exist, and then he did. A man, of superlative physical and mental faculties and adult mindset, but without the benefit of having experiences of one who is born and grows up. His willingness to learn new skills and have new experiences to compensate for the emptiness that he felt. Even marrying Renala, someone equal in power may have been his first attempt to be his own person than merely being Marika's attack dog (As she already had one in Malekith) or fallback guy should Marika be lacking for company (As evidenced by their four children). For all we know Radagon may have only returned to Marika due to her divine will,(And potentially she was bitter about her other half having fun, while she was alone). After the Shattering, Radagon's actions seemed based on him struggling to retain some autonomy despite now, as he is now more than ever been shackled to Marika, existing in subsistence, rather giving into the void like his other half.

[@themaniae4803]

@@Damienx247 Also, in the end first his body is controlled by the Elden Beast, the Dark Smoke, the the Elden Beast uses him as a literal object. A very sad ending for him.

[@Gammaburst1298]

I think that Marika found something so terrifying, vile, and disgusting, that she was willing to betray everything to break the order that the fingers wanted. I think Radagon found whatever Marika learned, and broke his morality. Just like how the Abyss in Darksouls was the ultimate evil to the sunlight, I bet the outer gods in Elden Ring are the same as the Abyss.

[@Bdaro-54n]

9:56 Remember that the Carian were alies of the Giants

[@thetipsysparrow9552]

I really love these videos: single character focused, well researched with interesting conclusions. Looking forward to all to come!

[@ludens_priest]

I have to say my compliments to your great work. I’m very obsessed with lore of Elden Ring and your videos help me with this a lot. What about Radagon, I think in this story he is most tragical figure, then anyone else. In my perspective he did nothing wrong. Do some shit with Carians, regret, ask for love and forgiveness, take that, do children with Renalla, all seems to be good, but he tragically forced to be a consort because he has a splitted cursed nature. If we look at relationships between Miquella and st. Trina we seen that ambitions to become a god clearly killed one of them anyway. Conflict between separated selfs looks like something inevitable to destroy them both. But if Marika/Miquella choose pay great cost for their own visions of order and don’t give a fuck about it, Radagon/Trina only can trying to stop them from self destructing choices. And both faced death.

[@kylegivens3120]

Poor Radagon. He must have felt comfortable with how things were, the ONLY person comfortable with how things were. He just couldn't let it go...

[@M..n..M]

Small problem with your "Radagon going rogue" angle: why does the Elden Beast fight you? If it's just him keeping you from becoming Elden Lord why does the Beast (the closest entity to the Greater Will) turn his corpse into a sword and continues the fight? Your theory is flawed in other major points, but this is the worst part of it. Marika is the one rebelling to the GW and we know this since it is HER who gets crucified and it is him who does what the Elden Beast also does (he fights you). As for the cursed children... It could be Marika is the one cursed or... You know... Maybe the fact that they are not even the product of incest but something even closer? After all, Marika's other children ARE NOT CURSED, they are just omens (except from Godwyn) which is an entirely different thing than being cursed like the 4 children of Marika and Radagon. So yeah... A very long video to give a very shaky sketch

[@Romulusthefounder]

The last video of Marika was my fave of your series! Can't wait to watch this one!

[@WobblesandBean]

10:25 Excuse me sir, that's a tortoise.

[@iryrasmo01019]

Excuse me, that's a dog.

[@WobblesandBean]

​​​@crapaudbiscornu7941 My girl Miriel deserves the highest respect, dammit!

[@Seriph7]

All tortoises are turtles, but not all turtles are tortoises.

[@Tusitustar]

1:00 "In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self" they share divinity

[@gustavl3107]

Your closing statement made me think of Gideon Offnir's dying words, about how "Queen Marika wants us to struggle for eternity". Marika is not the one who wants the Tarnished to mill about in the Lands Between, never achieving anything - Radagon is. But since Gideon didn't know about the Radagon is Marika thing, he had a flawed understanding of what his god wanted.

[@amharbinger]

Congrats on 200K

[@sk8legendz]

The early weeping peninsula map actually describes him as warning. The lands between of the tarnished eventually crossing the sea of fog This actually made me think that he was way more proactive in the defense of the lands between from the pillagers come for the elder ring I don't necessarily see him as a villain. I see him as someone who didn't want all the war suffering and death. That the lands between went through just for the golden order to become the ruling faction to be for nothing in the destruction of it He was mentioned as a Leal hound of the golden order. But really? I think he's just trying to make sure that everything wasn't for nothing

[@dumbledoresnape656]

Finally, a lore video with Turtle Pope as a central figure

[@JacerAcer08]

Thank you for making these videos, they really do bring a smile on my face when I see you upload. Thank you for bringing a constant joy throughout your video with it keeping my attention all the way though. Also check out Reanimale trailer, it's by the og creators of Little Nightmares 1 and 2. I'm more excited about that than Little Nightmares 3. Maybe make a video about any of those games. Anyone reading this let me know about which game you're more excited for.

[@CauliFlowerz]

Radagon has three healthy children with Renalla. Gave his rune of rebirth to her. Start to have crippled kid with Marika. I wonder what would happen if he kept it.

[@themaniae4803]

One thing i want to add to this critique to Radagon. In the 1.00 version, the first map of the game says Radagon warned people about the return of the Tarnished, so yeah, probably he saw us as a menace. So, yeah, i'm not defending him just because fanboism but because characters needs the right view, then opinions can come. (especially in this game and in a language so complicated.)

[@carlosdario9810]

So yeah

[@EmberedAshe]

One thing i want to point out is that Godwyn probably WAS cursed as well. There's some evidence to suggest that he may have harbored the Death Blight within himself even before death.

[@SmallOneEyedKing]

In my reaction to Smough's Town video about Radagon The Laticce Rune structure of Radagon was to symbolises his perfection fixed philosophy. That everything has to structure and organized.

[@themaniae4803]

@@SmallOneEyedKing Also, it's inside Raya Lucaria'd gates as a Carian symbol. Probably he took that from there, another symbol connected to his first wife.

[@theroguerider]

The biggest issue with high fantasy is that for us to understand it completely, we need to apply our world to it. The concept of a perceived reality. I love something but someone else hates it, but that means it is amazing, because that is my perception of it and that other opinion is useless to my reality. It’s why people hold onto their opinions so hard because they don’t realize in their world, that ‘thing’ is worthless to them. So you end up with so many questions that can’t be answered unless they tell you. Luke why does Marika have no reference to Radagon in the DLC? Do all shaman have a “other half”? Who controls it and how does the other wrest control back? It would seem Miquella had another half as well, but not Malenia? Marika commuted this one big sin, but what was it ultimately? Why is Radagon exempt if he and she are the same? It’s all just questions for ONE SMALL PIECE of an ENORMOUS puzzle.

[@finmorton6840]

One of the things I find really interesting about Miquella's story in the DLC which can be applied to Marika and Radagon is how to become a god, Miquella abandoned whole parts of himself, eyes, limbs, and more abstract emotional aspects of himself, like his doubt and his love aka St Trina. If we apply that same process to Marika's ascendance to godhood, she must also have abandoned whole aspects of herself like her son eventually does, and we can assume Radagon was one of those parts. Now this is just my headcanon simply because it follows the process that Miquella took, but i believe that Radagon was Marika's love that she abandoned, and I think this because of how fiercely Radagon loves people. Its clear that of the two of them, Radagon is the one that showed the most genuine love and affection for all of his children as well as Renalla. You don't go giving your ex a relic capable of affecting reality itself if you don't. I think Marika's idea of love however was always tainted with hate, that she abandoned her love because of what happened at the Shaman village. She didn't want to be hurt by loving again. And i think that tainted love was passed on to Radagon. Radagon, if we're working on the theory that he is Marika's love, could explain why he is always trying to better himself, to make himself stronger and why he is so loving to the people he cares about. He is quite literally the embodiment of "If I become stronger, I can protect everyone". Hell, the colour red is often associated with the ideas of love and passion, as well as danger and blood. I don't know if anyone else thinks this or if I may have just gone too deep down the rabbit hole, but thanks for reading all the same.

[@hollyshock8400]

This was my conclusion as well after playing the DLC

[@vryyyx]

but the problem is Radagon is still apart of Marika. Miquella for instance, sheds himself of St Trina and becomes two different entities. Radagon is still in Marika’s body, so she didn’t really remove him.

[@joshuabishop6258]

Is it not possible that there's not an actual second consciousness inside Marika? It seems more like a different persona she dons to obtain her goals. If Radagon was apt to using golden thread to seal secrets as in the case of the mouths of the masks... I find it likely that Radagon could use golden thread to protray Marika's golden hair. We see gold used over and over, to seal away the scarlet (red) rot. Gold is used to hide terrible, bloody truths that lie just beneath the surface. The Golden order was rotting from within. The scarlet rot was the truth, bursting forth, when the golden veils crumble. It's in most major fights. I think it's also worth mentioning that there's gold-tinged shit the game. As if a nod to the fact that not even gold can cover up what something really is. I think Marika was always battling herself and not some other person. She really was Radagon in battle. Have you noticed that clothing pieces, namely those with flowing manes, become red and blood-soaked after a heated battle. It's akin to Radagon's hair. Forever stained red from the pursuit of power. As Marika, Radagon used golden thread to cover it up

[@juliakim5825]

radagon is my will to diet and Marika is the munchies I get after 10pm

[@anonisnoone6125]

Radagon is probably one of my fav characters in ER. Not only is his fight cool af but his lore is really interesting. He deserved better than Marika. It disappoints me so much that the dlc didn't expand on him in anyway or the whole "seduction" thing. It feels like a lot of lore was left out just for the sake of being cryptic and that's what I hate about some of Miyazaki's writing. The dlc lore was also his own writing as well so it feels like he didn't even bother to expand on certain things.

[@julianpourdanesh3339]

I’ve had a personal theory that the reason why marikas and radagons children are so cursed compared to otherwise uncursed children of rennala is that they can be considered the consequences of incest. That marika and radagon committed some sort of sin in their coupling.

[@Dianbler]

The issue with that is that Mogh and Morgott are cursed too. And they are not the children of incest.

[@rafsandomierz5313]

That's most likely not the case, most curses are because Marika was kinda a pain in the ass for other outer gods i.e god of fell flame cursed her after geniciding the giants giving her red hair to never forget what she's done so she gave it to Radagon. So like outer gods do they cursed her, hornset also did but that was because she directly "betrayed" them.

[@draw2death421]

​@@Dianblerexept Those 2 are due to Hornsents cursing marika so theyre explained allready.

[@Dianbler]

@@draw2death421 shouldn't all her children be omen, then? Could you tell me the source of that. I'd like to read on that.

[@draw2death421]

@@Dianbler took me a while to find it but here: HORNSENT GRANDAM quote: A curse upon thee, rotten miscreant." "A curse upon the strumpet's progeny, upon Marika's children each and all." "The curse of the omen shall strike thee down..."

[@xxeman445xx]

God love you for keeping these coming

[@luckyowl6432]

I think that's Radagon we see in the story trailer at the Gate. It looks like a male figure and male Marika is Radagon. Also the hint of red hair and the phrase " leal hound of the Golden Order come to mind often when I watch it. Idk how to make it fit with Marika and her Ascension or betrayal just reporting what I'm seeing

[@EJaDav]

This is just what I needed to make it through work today!

[@disasterdisaster581]

The Golden order is so based. Unironically, why am I supposed to feel bad that a bunch of freaks and monsters got exterminated? I wish there was an ending where we could side with Radagon.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Cringe

[@naughtiousmaximus7853]

Golden Order are scum. I am in Messmer, Gaius and Radahn camp.

[@dllps]

Modernity has forgotten that human greatness has always been built through tragedy, pain and sacrifice. Only the truly divine builds greatness without these things. That's why Golden Mask prefers to remove the gods and demigods from their pedestals and leave them as just another man among men, after all there is no difference between them, only that one has access to the laws of the world while the other does not.

[@disasterdisaster581]

@@Mae_Dastardly I hope she (Ranni) see's this bro

[@disasterdisaster581]

@@dllps Lame

[@CMaxoknight31]

what I love about games that are a bit subtle with their story is watching videos like this, it gives me a whole new perspective on the games story