Raven Response to Verhulst Saying he "Fell Off"

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timestamps:
00:00 Verhulst Interview
01:50 Raven Response

[@zeronin4696]

Evan didnt only "diss" raven. He said everyone in the team fell off. Idk why raven tries to act like they just criticized him alone. Evan even mentioned that Talmadge isnt as good as raven when he joined TSM

[@michaelvarlack7768]

He has to defend himself, this is his job. His life style and the way he gets paid. If someone at your job keeps negatively spreading rumors about you with you not being there it will put a negative look on you. Its not fair and very disrespectful

[@KyleCox404]

He specifly dissed Raven as well, dont pretend he was "blaming everybody" beacose he was humble. I think Verhulst is a snake and delusinal, and Hal saw that, hence he bounced out as soon as possible.

[@nojithan]

@@KyleCox404 parasocial much?

[@KyleCox404]

@@nojithan WTF is your problem bud? The only thing that is parasocial is your brain.

[@ForeverMirinBrah]

Evan was absolutely right

[@nojithan]

Every time I hear Raven talk he does 10 laps of the same three points taking 20 minutes to say some thing that should take 30 seconds.

[@kashura38]

hes milking tf out of this

[@ForeverMirinBrah]

he is noob bro

[@skyzone121]

Isn’t almost all american sounded like that just to make it dramatic

[@nojithan]

@@skyzone121 in fairness, he's Canadian

[@skyzone121]

@@nojithanoh shiet, alright my bad

[@RootyTootTootin]

Raven clearly wanted to say all of this regardless of what Evan said

[@KyleCox404]

No he did not, but he had to defend himself, beacose Verhulst is not let's say the smarterst person in the room.

[@roguethemachine3928]

raven has 0 social maturity what you expect

[@KyleCox404]

@@roguethemachine3928 And you have 100% stupidty.

[@Alex-nx3me]

Only Raven would take that super personally and get butthurt. Not surprised.

[@Croagge]

This is their job, they should be putting minimum 6 or 8 hours a day, at least on weekdays, to playing the game. Whether they wanna do ranked, R5, or tdm's with other teams. The fact that you're a top team that wins LANs and two of your players only play during scrims is so fucking bad. No wonder Hal needed to 1v3 for them to win fights. How do you beat other pros in teamfights when you only play 3 hours a day max.

[@KevBrad19]

Yep Hal was so frustrated but still never scooped so low calling his teammates and coaches washed He thanked everyone and moved on silently so a more mature and committed players

[@xythiera7255]

I never thoud the reason Hal played alone Ranked most the time becouse Raps and Val just dont care anymore

[@veqad2242]

@@xythiera7255 that was never the actual reason though? like 90% of pro players doesnt even run rankeds with their PL roster setups, also if they are together all the fucking time, thats just going to impact their mentality with each other outside of ''official'' working hours.

[@Theturthwill]

100% man reps and Verhulst day is coming. I mean the scrims are already a indicator of what’s to come. 20 - 30 points ain’t going to do it 😂

[@johnnysilver5866]

Hal didn’t play ranked w reps and E because they didn’t wana only play with each other. They live with eachother, they need SOME time alone. Not because the other 2 refused to play lmao

[@lankie16]

Verhulst also said that they as a group ´Fell off´, so he also aware that he was part of that problem. So why the hate? TSM did collectively fail after Champs.

[@KyleCox404]

Yes but he specifily mantined that Raven also fell of, which is ironic, since he was the one who seemed to lost passion for a game while they were loosing. The guy was playing like garabe, and now al of a sudden it was Raven who "fell off". Give me a break.

[@Theturthwill]

When the team does bad you mention yourself. Not drag other people down with you. Verhulst and reps is the downfall of tsm

[@RickGrimes807]

He mentioned Raven because the question was about Raven. Of course he'd mention him. But then he added that they all fell off too, not just Raven. You're looking for problems where there aren't any. ​@@KyleCox404

[@rokkkleee112]

Hal was 1v57’ing every game tf you mean collectively? Reps was chucking a bang ult at their feet and Verhulst was falling over every fight like a dumbass. Wasn’t really collectively those two just failed

[@petercruz1993]

Having internal talks like this being made this public can’t be healthy 😂

[@TNSnellslaw]

professional yapper this raven guy

[@Eitachi5656]

Congratulations figuring this out genius... he IS a coach, it IS his job to yap (aka TALK) his team into performing.

[@Affar0x]

@@Eitachi5656 That's where you're wrong genius. The way he talks is annoying and he also keeps repeating the same things over and over ..which is a one type of yapping. Verhulst didn't even say anything bad and dude goes all in professional manbaby about it

[@TNSnellslaw]

@@Affar0x Thanks, you said it better then I ever could. Hal even was like did he say anything new or is he just repeating himself 100 times

[@nemiw4429]

E: he wants to be compared to faker rofl. LoL is a game where u need deep strategy. Apex is randomness at its finest. Coaches in a random game like Apex is useless. What's most important are reactive calls while playing and teamplay [as in knowing what ur mate does, how he plays]. I was pro 2011 talking from experience. If u need to get motivated quit ur career or stream. Coach is not a psychologist. Useless role.

[@MangoxLoco]

I feel that towards the end what Raven was doing for TSM was not working. After wining champs last year and lets be honest here that win was so inconsistent to how they were playing there was never any sense of being dominant for TSM they werent performing in scrims they didnt perform in split 1 there just wasnt that powerful sense from TSM.. and thats ok thgese things happen

[@wildouter]

they also knew hal might leave 2 months before lan, funny enough before they won champs last year hal had lost passion and even appologised at the end of the stream that it was him not his team mates. in the other interview also verhulst talks about how he was wanting to play death match because they werent winning any team fights but hal didnt want to but low and behold hes been tdm with his new buddies every day

[@toasty00000]

I mean I don't see how he's wrong, it was blatantly obvious from the start by anyone with the slightest lick of brain functionality that the reason they started doing bad was that it just seemed like Evan and especially Reps had next to zero passion for the game anymore and they were bringing Hal down with them

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

Lol every time I see Verhulst on scrims and such, he looks like he doesn't want to be there, most of the time. And not playing the game in general, yeah. So no surprise here.

[@fizz_time7003]

VALID. Game bad lmao.

[@dangelotaylor2149]

Also i was oh they agreed to all move on which is fine. The let it sit and BOOM we get the actual story and behind the scenes

[@jacobgreene4331]

I mean the only point that raven has is that he failed to do his job as a coach, its the coaches job to keep his players in the game, to keep his players focused, if the coach cant do that, he obviously isnt a very good coach (outside of strategy). A coach cant just leave it at a "i tried" he has to keep trying, he has to pretty much force his players to play. Otherwise he fails to do his job

[@gulfarion3460]

how do you force an adult to play/boot up games when whatever you say/feel will never threaten their career or anything. show me how

[@jacobgreene4331]

@@gulfarion3460 I don't know. But it's not my job, like it was his. If your job is to do something, and you can't figure out a way to do it, you shouldn't have that job.

[@cinnamonboy4266]

Now that i watched how he said it i think he meant something else i dont he’s hating on raven

[@zombiedeathrays8862]

Yeah. It sounded like he said he went from god coach to just slightly the best… which doesn’t sound disrespectful.

[@NationJJ]

Wow. This is why Hal left them. I'm still sad about it, in Esports context, but this is a complete surprise.

[@CRF250R1521]

The real crime here is Raven's mic

[@notrelikk]

honestly reps is the one that held them back. regardless of what anyone thinks he's the one that truly fell off. bro got phased out by the controller meta.,

[@fierceserge8061]

lmao Verhulst said that in the most neutral way after being asked a question to compare his last and newest coach and Raven proceeded to air out shit he was mad about and never talked to him about offline.

[@swabbie2066]

The only thing about ravens statement is that you dont have to play the game super super often to stay a pro in val there is a pro named leaf who literally doesn't play val outside of scrims and tourneys so he doesn't get burnout

[@veqad2242]

nice comparison of games whose movements and killing time on targets are literally opposites of each other, what a genius /s

[@JohnSmith-zk3kd]

yeah but they scrim around 4-6hrs a day and its 5v5 so they're good quality. apex scrims are not at the same quality

[@JohnSmith-zk3kd]

@@veqad2242 the ttk isnt what matters it just how much they scrim

[@veqad2242]

@@JohnSmith-zk3kd ????????? u are really not making sense, u are basically saying that scrims are pointless just because they are not 5v5 or single arena map

[@JohnSmith-zk3kd]

@@veqad2242 No dumbfuck im saying you can get away with only playing scrims Valorant because they're good quality unlike Apex. In Apex scrims are usually really shit even pro league scrims, teams will int and die or just grief you can't grief a Valorant scrim.

[@Asdayasman]

Verhulst is asked to compare a previous coach and the current one and says the current coach is good and the previous coach was good. Raven gets defensive and starts glazing Hal. Ooook buddy.

[@giovalladares1022]

Verhulst phrased the whole statement the worst way possible. Raven took it too hard but Verhulst sounded like he has no reading of social cues.

[@Asdayasman]

@@giovalladares1022 Bro is in the youtube comments of a video clip of a podcast where people who used to play video games talk about the people who still play video games, talking about ability to read "social cues" skull emoji skull emoji skull emoji.

[@giovalladares1022]

@@Asdayasman ah I see. So you’re a shut in gamer who can’t read social cues and assume all gamers are the same. Nah bud, you’re just a cringe kid who doesnt know what he’s talking about.

[@urwrldluv]

Did Evan say a lie? We all would hear Ravens tone and comms during scrims/LAN. He’s monotone and jus didn’t have any Good vibes for the team.

[@RickGrimes807]

Massive ego on that raven guy. God forbid anyone, let alone one of the best players in the game, slightly criticizes anything about him hm? Let alone the fact that Evan said they all fell off and lost passion towards the end. But Raven's massive ego made him take it as a personal attack directed at him only.

[@alexanderblack1899]

It true when raven first joined he kept hal in check and then towards the end of hal tsm career raven just let hal say the most abusive stuff

[@gulfarion3460]

well psychologically ofc Raven would side with Hal as Jordan & Evan leave him with a very bad impression of no passion towards the end and Hal is his only hope/where he finds solidarity. So, whatever they do start to look bad in his eyes, and he will be super critical about them. once the bad impression start it is very hard to reverse that

[@thedarkwarrior9923]

I'm not a TSM hater, but the team is now a mid-level team. I wouldn't say it's washed out, the problem is the placement - these aren't good at the moment. The mistakes in a tournament are there, let's say the ults are poorly placed (anyone who wants to tell me that this can happen, I'm sorry, it's not a ranked match but a tournament for money where the respective team as well The players who play these tournaments make money Earnings that represent the team) Mistakes are made such as ults are placed incorrectly I'm not saying that the players are individually bad. Verhultst has very good aim and knowledge of the game, but shoots against a former team member. As a representative of the team, this doesn't have to be the case

[@r4ydaa]

They just need a proper IGL bro.

[@spurscoys7385]

1 11th place is washed. While they are getting an avg of 4 th in scrims. They are ahead of schedule

[@MahiuzzamanMishu]

First of all why the f Reps is out of the topic. The main culprit is Reps who has no passion in gaming before and after. You can find almost 100s of Hal or Verhulst techniques of pro gaming in youtube because this two players are insanely good and passionate.Compare to them TSM REPs has no highlights. Evan was absolutely right in that meeting and said the common facts they faced. Insanely good-this player is maintaining his potential cz he knows he’s good.

[@aren0714]

Big E did say he felt they all fell off and got complacent

[@asmr_23]

I don’t think Evan’s hating on Raven, but calling him passionless was kinda immature tbh

[@iraizo5843]

Saying your coach fell off is wild. It is passionless to not turn the game on and actually practice like you know what they get paid to do. They viewed it as a chore rather than their purpose

[@Theturthwill]

Verhulst and reps day is coming 😂 reps don’t play with Hal unless it’s scrims or algs. Reps is the new Mac

[@veqad2242]

.......u are literally clueless when it comes their days gaming in ranked mode...none of them plays with each other in ranked modes all that often, are u a bot or something, u cant be real 💀

[@Theturthwill]

@@veqad2242 how am I a bot ? Is it because I hurt your feelings? 😂

[@Theturthwill]

@@veqad2242 reps don’t even play ranked mode unless it’s scrims that day😂💀. But hey I’m clueless 💀💀💀💀

[@veqad2242]

@@Theturthwill so u are saying that he is not playing ranked at all then when he played ranked 19days ago? some confidence man

[@Theturthwill]

@@veqad2242 😂 19 days ago was the last time he played ranked? 🤦‍♂️😂💀

[@arthurlamora8520]

well not a big fan of raven as a person but he had every right to be pissed of they lost a 3v3 contest with 3 blues vs 3 whites if felt like before raven joined and Hal was playing solo that lan

[@ids23]

bro, you cant say everything behind the scene on air. Not everything. Keep that in mind, tell that in front of the pep, just do brainstorming, what went wrong, what is to improve. And thats it, keep it in the team. You can tell bad about your ex in public, but in a good word. They have reputation to see. just my opinion

[@tommunist10]

TLDR; they all got complacent after doing well last year. Verhulst and Reps weren’t playing the game enough, and Raven got salty about that. Thus things fell apart. I’m sure the three of them are regretting their decisions and wishing they were where they were a year ago.

[@TheJedikai]

Raven showing his true colors that we already knew. It's no wonder no one wants his as a coach! PLUS Hal called him out on his lie that he found out and overheard about even not wanting to play Apex anymore. Hal said he told him! Raven just needs to fade away in tsm's grace.

[@13Drty]

Raven being butthurt and rehashing every point 20 times. Classic

[@nemiw4429]

Nobody needs a coach. In sich a random game specialy. It all comes down to teamplay. Raven shudnt be paid for motovating people. That's redicillus (I was pro in cod2 2011, won vs H2K in my last tournament, talking from experience).

[@brainbox9219]

This game is bound to burn players out, even the best in the world at one point

[@TylerNicely]

Saying everyone fell off, when he stopped playing and wanted to quit is real dirty work.

[@timmasters1195]

Raven has been exposed since the split, team motivation is part of his job to either address or change. Coaching at Falcons is so far ahead.

[@samukaplay10]

The reality is that Raven isn't half the coach that everyone says he is

[@gilbertogutierrez1605]

honestly, every pro team should take a year off bc at this point feels like they sold there soul to ea lol

[@55thstreet66]

A year off? LMAO please never give advice again. I don't think you understand what taking a year off means at the professional level.

[@gilbertogutierrez1605]

@@55thstreet66 yeah i know i was exaggerating. my point is they should just take a break and not do anything that benefits ea and just play causal every once in a while

[@mick5662]

Man calling Raven "passionless" and that he "fell off" is totally disrespectful, especially when they agreed to keep it between themselves. I don't blame Raven for defending himself, because comments like these could ruin your image. You could clearly see that Evan and Reps were the ones who weren't as passionate anymore, thus the reason why Hal left. THE EVIDENCE IS THERE!

[@wildouter]

i dont think you even watched the video lmao

[@mick5662]

​@wildouter you clearly have no rebuttal to what I said, because there's no way you can defend Evan

[@shanebuske3311]

Doing anything competitive you need to play, you want to take time off, fine you will be rusty. In anything results matter, decisions will be made. Results matter people.

[@RealNukes]

Sounds like Verhulst wants a coach to tell him him what he wants to hear not what he needs to hear.

[@alpang6161]

Honestly, Raven talked like Hal. Big ego and says alot of things "matter of fact" like. He's got a great mind but he's terrible at mediating Hal's ego and arguments.

[@Blkgy]

A simple "I dont really want to compare them" or "each coach brings their own strengths to the table" wouldve prevented this whole exchange. Verhulst has to learn how to play it more diplomatic, otherwise fair game for Raven.

[@dangelotaylor2149]

yea some people needs to know what to say and how to say it. A simple "they both have different styles of coaching and I vibe with him more" would actually made this more understanding and not me looking like "wow really they said what bout each other" Buuuut some people can write their own narrative on what's going on but I see it as a big rivalry brewing which is gonna take over the media. Alongside the tsm vs Hals team talks this adds more flavor to the pot. Rest of the season coming in hit with side apex comp storylines and "drama"

[@ansh141619]

Evan already lost after hal’s stamp on this response.

[@Blkgy]

@@ansh141619 he was wrong regardless...It was clear when they broke up there was "blame" to be assessed but everyone took the high road. He needlessly opened the door

[@urwrldluv]

Lol raven having a mid life crisis 🤣🤣🤣🤣 speaking off emotion when Verhulst was speaking off facts

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

Raven is the most overrated coach. Wait...No he's the only overrated coach...When TSM had trash macro, Raven made a huge difference...But then TSM started losing cause they suck at team fighting compared to all the players in their lobbies...The only thing Raven brings to a team is macro.. his mechanics/micro/fighting iq is mid...

[@Soulsaint1215]

Did you read what you wrote before you typed it? This is the most uninformed statement I've read in a while. Maybe you should listen and watch more people IN the scene before you speak. Even Hal has already confirmed that Raven knows his stuff (along with other players from other teams) but, in this case Evan just wasn't feeling Apex anymore. Hard to coach and motivate people that just don't want to do their JOB.

[@KyleCox404]

Micro is not Ravens job, if Verhhulst is not smart enaugh to see, where he makes mistakes in micro then that is on him. Every pro player is responsible for their micro. Hall saw the writing on the wall, Verhulst is delusional garbage that lost passion, hence Hal left.

[@vagabondcaleb8915]

Raven couldn't get to Diamond if he solo queued 😄

[@TheBiirdhouse]

raven has some nerve acting like its just that easy. maybe he should play at that caliber and not just tell them what to do. shit is not easy to just switch on

[@devincooper7821]

lol wut? At the highest level of any competition it is expected that as a coach, your players are 100% invested. Period. If you aint committed, you aint winning. Raven was 100% in the right for responding to what Evan decided to say publicly.

[@okene]

If you are being payed and have the exposure that is befitting of a top team's roster, then you and contractually and morally obligated to play to the best of your ability, else you get replaced. Raven doesn't need to tell Evan to try hard, his contract does. His organization does. If it's too hard for you then resign and give someone else the spot. TSM is a company that people have invested their money into, they expect results. Your personal feewings are ancillary to your performance, simple as that

[@zombiedeathrays8862]

What Raven is saying is so much worse than what Evan said. What Evan said wasn’t even bad.

[@Taylor_King]

The point is that there was justification for why Raven supposedly “fell off”… and that reason was specifically the cunt who was talking shit for no reason…

[@ForeverMirinBrah]

true

[@evanloncar]

i hate raven with a passion he just d rode Hal

[@grandpowr]

Ravem doesn't seem to be like a good person

[@KyleCox404]

At lest Reven is not pretending. Everybody seems to think Verhulst is "this good person" when in reality he is the real snake.

[@godsproject0]

@@KyleCox404 Wut?! 😆😆. How people assume these things is beyond me.

[@HiddenStr3ngth]

@@godsproject0 Assume what? Verhulst isn't really a nice person to be fair. He would shill cancer to his fanbase for money, with the usual scummy sponsorships. Very few of these guys that are actually decent people.

[@wildouter]

@@KyleCox404 sounds like you just took everything raven said hook line and sinker verhulst didnt say anything out of line for raven to cry out his bussy, hell all hes been doing since leaving tsm is streaming with racist college girls

[@KyleCox404]

@@wildouter So, by that logic, did you took everything Vehulst said and took it hook line and sinker. What is your point bud? Besedies demonstrating you are stupid.

[@CARTUNE.]

Evan talks like Ben Shapiro.

[@wildouter]

ravens been simping too much with them radical racist college girls, they always saying dumb ass shit but cant handle evan the guy that never talks shit at all views. in his other interview evan also mentions that they should have been playing tdm's but hal didnt want to, that coupled with raven not to mention evan and jordan recieved hals ultimatum of leaving 2 months prior

[@iwantsmore69420]

Idk it seems funny that Evan is on a team still and raven is not

[@YoDaddyB]

He did fall off tho

[@markjordan7800]

Verhulst the snake shame on you

[@KevBrad19]

Verhulst is that type of kid that would change stories based on group hes chatting just to *fit in* in that group He's done that multiple times about hal now raven Comparing your new unproven coach as close second to your former coach that made drastic changes to make the team win This is just straight disrespectful And i dont even like raven personally No matter the recent results tsm must remember the changes raven brought to the team to push them forward to success Imperialhal left respectfully thanked the team and coach Raven left respectfully did the same and both took responsibility on their loss, and didnt point 👉 fingers at anybody And now this kid taking zero responsibility calling out your former coach as washed without taking his own responsibility on mistakes he made Its straight staright delusional and most importantly very disrespectful ☝️ Now i understand even more why Imperialhal left quietly to a better committed players

[@KevBrad19]

Plus imperialhal had even more disagreement and argument with Raven so many times But never both of them speak so low-level of each other because both of them acknowledge what's best for the team and doing their best on being at their best performing at the highest level Verhulst needs to grow up more bcs it is very immature

[@hoodyplz]

Plus imma comment agree with myself 😂😂😂😂

[@Asdayasman]

TSM were winning before Raven bro, and why the heck would they hire a coach who isn't going to be at least nearly as good as the last one? You think they're gonna hire a bottom 20 coach? C'mon.

[@Bjon10]

Raven thinks he's the main man, he's utterly useless, just like all the other "coaches"

[@Ching91919]

Huge W reposns from Raven ! GG`s only

[@Fnpro1717]

Tsm fell off how bout that

[@uoeno-it603]

Raven sucks he’s overrated

[@grassisass9407]

bro did this man really say raven is a bill is that man smoking TSM was successful before him if I'm not mistaken geeeez apex really does give you brain damage

[@jonathantummino2612]

I can’t stand raven tbh

[@CmdrElect]

Proof is evan sucked ass last split. I dont care what excuse he or this army of evan bots say. Its a fact. Last Lan he didnt produce at all. A shell of himself and the current TSM roster is a dumpster of average. Oh well.

[@RamenFuel7700]

This kid getting cocky, Needs to be humbled!

[@Tihomir21]

verhulst feel off badly troling games then blames coach smartest was hal He Left