Re-Uploaded: Rebuttal of 2013 Elder Training Videos

[@sarahdrengler3286]

I work with victims of sexual assault. Every single thing these men are saying are the exact opposite of what someone is suppose to say to a victim of trauma. This is infuriating and heartbreaking.

[@fadedperson2272]

When I was overcome by suicidal thoughts I was hospitalized for a month, getting psychiatric care 24/7, then been seeing therapist every week for a year, plus group therapy. Seeing the last video, it strikes me how deadly watchtower teachings are. It kills people. If I had been so stupid, turning to the elders, getting "advice" like that, I'd surely be dead now. This video is just an insult to any humans ever been where I was. This is as bad as the blood doctrine, equally dangerous. I knew it was bad, but this video left me stunned anyway. I'll send it to everyone I know.

[@gbnomore3918]

I have a relative that became extremely ill, paralyzed to the point of being bedridden. She's a JW. The problem ended up being depression and anxiety but the doctors had a difficult time figuring it out because she didn't actually feel depressed or overly anxious. She's a pretty strong woman. She is now doing way better. She has moments and is getting older but better. Had she ever listened to or gone to the WhOrg and its reps she might be dead.

[@danh.8261]

Advising a young man to abandon the future mother of his child {and I would presume the child itself} not on any basis of them having a bad relationship or it being abusive but solely based on her not being a witness is unconscionable.

[@horrorfanandy4647]

You’re goddamn right! (Obviously)

[@brianmclendon1647]

The leadership in the JW religion are pure evil!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jawa808]

"Do you want to see my aquarium". Yes indeed. A vile seductress. "I couldn't resist" wailed Robbie. "She had a sword tail fish and 4 guppys !" For Shame !

[@tiffanyanderson7094]

😂😂😂😂😂👌

[@clairenollet2389]

"I slipped! And my penis just FELL into her! And my penis got naked and forgot to put a condom on!"

[@aubreyward5725]

she had clearly been planing to defile him for weeks to have such a fool proof plan to get him into her house.

[@falconmyst]

Hey big boy want ta see my guppys? hehe blush...……..HAHAHAHAHAHA

[@franciskhoury4288]

@@clairenollet2389 "It fell and fell and fell. It fell here and there and everywhere on her body. Somehow, we thought it was fun."

[@alexhammerle9078]

I would really love to read the reactions of this video by some psychologists. I would imagine they would be absolutely horrified.

[@sitizenkanemusic]

I've been in a dinner table with psychiatrists and psychologists. They make light on horrible stories they've heard. They laugh at some of the most heinous things. I guess when you hear horrifying stories on a daily basis, you kinda have to make it humorous, or else you'd go insane. This would be a cake walk for them.

[@T120RT]

Damn, Lloyd! You are absolutely fantastic! You have a terrific knack for combining sarcasm and humor with great critical analysis of WT bullshit. I was in stitches and serious thought simultaneously throughout the video.

[@LisaForTruth]

Yes, Lloyd. As a counseling student, I can say DEFINITIVELY that if she has a plan, she needs help immediately. As someone who has suffered from depression for 20 years, I can tell you that telling a depressed person to think positive thoughts is like telling a type 1 diabetic to make insulin.

[@katrosajin7744]

As a type 1 diabetic ex jw that's also suffering from depression, it's exactly like that. I'm so glad I never talked to the elders about my issues.

[@henrybemis8913]

Which is the greater moral evil....Fornication or that ACTING...???

[@confusedparrot3545]

My dad shared an experience he had at elder training school. There was a scenario given with a person with multiple personality disorder was to be told she is going to be disfellowshipped. The elder portrayed in the dramatization said, "be sure to tell Jane and John they are also disfellowshipped." He told me the room bursted with laughter. He didn't think it was funny. This organization has no concept of handling the depressed or mentally ill. It's so out of touch with reality, it's beyond belief. It's no laughing matter Watch-Ivory-Tower.

[@dovestone_]

Confused Parrot Hopping black eyes that look me back 😓😓😓

[@taebeebee]

thats quite fucked up. while i was in the cult it was quite obvious they took mental illness lightly. almost as if, well if youre mentally ill you clearly dont have faith in god!

[@shallowlove9507]

Confused Parrot 😮😮😮

[@clairenollet2389]

@@taebeebee Yeah, because faulty brain neurochemistry obviously never afflicts people of faith. Only atheists ever get mentally ill. That's how the laws of physics and biochemistry work. Serotonin and dopamine have an "atheist detecting" molecule attached to them, and only go wonky in the presence of atheism.

[@informationyes]

Better to have multiple personalities in one person than for all of those Elders in that cult training meeting to have only one! personality

[@TheRoman1964]

I can't believe I participated in this ridiculous arrangement. Thank goodness I've moved on.

[@kevinMcFree]

Randall Oman my thoughts exactly :( same here

[@itiswhatitis8030]

Amen✌🏼

[@Miltonman100]

Randall Oman same here!!! Its embarrassing now that i look back on it!! Lol

[@starfruitjade5156]

For real, how did we stand with this shit. Glad to be out

[@poonamkumar3237]

I love this video and I'm so glad you put it back up. The last part about the suicidal lady really struck home. I remember being a teenager and struggling with depression. I even dropped out of school. I just remember the empty (well emptier than usual) feeling I'd get at the end of shepherding visits cause you're always told that talking to elders is THE BEST way to deal with your feelings.. And so I'd end up thinking, as they left my house, "if THE ELDERS THEMSELVES couldn't help, it must just be unfixable. I'll just always feel this way".Also worth mentioning, no matter what the problem was that prompted the shepherding visit... they'll always leave you feeling guilty as shit that you're not spending enough time in the field service and that's why shit like this happens to you. Thank god (well not really..lol) that I got out as a teen and finally went to a shrink. Sorry, rant over.

[@phoenixmoon5580]

May you always feel emotions, but may you never feel them tainted with that dark emptiness of the evil that is mental illness.

[@cindyarnold7322]

Grief and depression require grief counseling, or Wellbutrin, talking to a professional mental health specialist. I had to take antidepressants for a period to get me over the hump. Talking helps, but not to these clueless men. Why aren't elders required to be educated in these matters? Oh! I forgot , they encouraged her to be an "integrity keeper". Sheesh!

[@gbnomore3918]

I felt like that after every meeting, convention, gathering and every thing else. Now I/we know why. IT'S A CULT! My subconscious knew it but I wasn't listening.

[@Livingfree4me]

I'm a former Jehovah's witnesses and I find it pretty interesting how this video makes the woman out like a Jezebel! I remember being counseled by an elders wife about my little bit of cleavage that was showing, because of the collar on my dress. I think that the only reason it was mentioned was because some man in the congregation couldn't keep his eyes to himself! It's not like my breast were falling out! I didn't even realize that little bit was an issue! Sheesh! I can't help that my breast are large! Yet, I felt like a complete hussy because of this situation! This man should have control over his own actions and stop blaming my breast!😣

[@hardstyle3196]

Lol when the damn cult represses us ya go bananas over just ankles😂 talk about victorian times! But yeah the amount of bs thek make us endure is absolutely repulsive. One time the elders were tripping out over my hair when literally that's how I had been cutting my hair my whole life!

[@kirstenornelas881]

I'm sorry you went through that. Oh I could tell you ain't shit they pulled with me like wtf. It was like being interrogated by perverted old men. I remember I felt violated after leaving that back room.. uhg

[@StevenBenDeNoon]

So the man had sex with a girl and she is pregnant... and they are advising to leave her? How about the advice of man up, stop crying and prepare to be a husband and a father ... but I am not surprised over elders, I have myself a good story to tell. I wrote about it in my book and my wife has a ton of stories to tell...as an ex JW

[@DJMaul1031]

"...I wonder how many times she's used that line?" - fucking brilliant

[@orpheusuk8762]

If there are any intelligent, attractive females in UK, I'll be cooking cod this evening [Apparently, the seduction tool of choice] Thanks Watchtower.

[@maegs1982]

Thanks so much Lloyd for posting this again! I never did get to see your rebuttal of this video in the past, and I'm so happy to see it! A part of me really wants to send this video to my mother, because sometimes I feel like this would just so plainly wake her up if she only gave it a chance. But I can't be the one to send it to her, she just has to come across it herself. So many times I'm tempted to send one of your videos to her but then I know she will refuse to ever watch them. I just hope she stumbles upon your channel one day! Thanks for your so eloquently worded videos!

[@j.j.1064]

What is not mentioned is that if you've been recently disfellowshiped and in the same mental state, (as obedient JW's ) your phone call will be ignored (as per 2016 convention video) and in their eyes your toast. How do I know? Because I was in an identical situation only dfs for 4 weeks. However I went to my doctor who refered me to a psychologist and I got professional help which bears no resemblance to that "car crash" video I had 5 sessions and the guy saved my life and got me to see how stupid and dangerous cult advice is. My advice is, having been there, don't under estimate professional help let"window cleaners" do their job and professional councillors do theirs. At the end of the day it could save your life.

[@Martinj1417]

I was serving as an elder when I saw theses videos at KM school. After the school was over our cobe called an elders meeting and bragged how good of a job he and the other elders were doing. I was happy also because I was brainwashed at the time.

[@orpheusuk8762]

Yet again, Watchtower prefer to create a video scene presenting women as the foundation for sin, and creating the scenario for sin. And now, they introduce fish as a tool of seduction! Too bizarre for words.

[@j.j.1064]

Orpheus UK yes indeed. It was misogynistic. Notice the elders did not reprove him for his assertion that she seduced him and that it takes two to tango.

[@orpheusuk8762]

James: Yep, women do get a raw deal in the Org. As for the seduction blaming: The GB want to sell the notion that Witnesses need to be misled by the world before becoming sinful. No way would they present the possibility that a JW acted sinfully because of their owns desires and imperfections. They've always got to serve blame beyond the Org. Standard practice, sadly.

[@teddyandpete]

They went so far to name her "Lucy"...Lucifer!!!!

[@j.j.1064]

teddyandpete good point, The devil is in the detail.

[@orpheusuk8762]

Luci - from Lucy f - from fish [aquarium] er - from 'er, she seduced you?" :)

[@MollySato]

Wow... the "loving" elders sound like cold, sleepwalking automatons..

[@taebeebee]

Molly Sato they always sound like that

[@Hammface]

@14:20 😂😂😂😂😂.."Ok does anyone have an ideas how this girl seduced this man?!??....ooooo I got one! She wanted to show him....her Stamp collection!

[@abramgaller2037]

His member unzipped his fly and did a twerk dance.

[@Azrael-me1tm]

Stamp Collections are an Insta-Boner

[@nemeanlion2460]

He took about 9-10 secs to answer how many times he had seen her, I thought he was going to say 2-3 times a day. Lol

[@abramgaller2037]

The limitations of imagination of cult leaders in cases like this can be fascinating.

[@ponyboyy01]

Alastair Watt its acutally her fish tank! Haha

[@livsimply5471]

I watched your conversation with Kim Silvio yesterday and this video today. Wow. This is so heartbreaking, and I'm literally speechless. Thank you for your videos, Lloyd. I am not a JW, but I have been visited by some in my area. Actually, they have stopped by and seen my wife a couple times and are coming back to meet with me in February. My wife told them she wasn't interested, but her wife (that's me!) was. Your videos are priming my heart to listen to them. This one is particularly stunning to me as a person with bipolar disorder who is happy, stable, and ALIVE on her medication. Again, I'm just speechless. Good work!

[@jamieangel3766]

'Lucy' is rightly named so by the writers to subconsciously suggest to the entended audience that she is 'loose-ey'. She wanted to show him her 'aquarium' or fish. He wonders "how many times she's used that 'line'" on unsuspecting, poor, male victims. Ah bless. Aquariums suggests caught fish too, someone caught hook, line and sinker, as well as the obvious smut.

[@martine5480]

I think they meant Lucy as in Lucifer! 😂

[@sambell9522]

Yup you are right. I have a family member who had postpartum psychosis after her child was born years ago and was in the mental department of the hospital under heavy drugs. In her state of mind she didn't know me and yet the JW left Watchtower for her to read!!!!pissed me right off so I took them and threw them out. She was not in her right mind at that time and confused.But stay loyal to the cult no matter whether she got better or not.

[@WistfulCreative]

Misogyny at its finest...

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

Couldn't agree more Every woman to these "Spiritual men" is some man eating seductressess Lol

[@rikeag4057]

"Oh sorry. I forgot the cookies." Goes and commits suicide in the kitchen after the most heartless counseling one can think up in a repressed mind.

[@catmeow333]

Step ford

[@JBearInIndiana]

"2 -3 times 2-3 times per week? Yes, she has beautiful Pterophyllum you know, angel fish"

[@Sinclairelim]

"She just quit bitching about wanting to die and went to get some cookies for me. Problem solved!" Oh my god...

[@kassiagilmore7487]

I can relate to the young man minus the being pregnant part. I met a man outside of the witnesses, the elders wanted me to break off my relationship to. I left the JWs for that man, been happy for over a year.

[@nialloshaughnessy239]

Another great video Lloyd thank you! I am so grateful for these, I faded over 20 years ago but only recently when I came across the John Cedars and ExJw Fifth Channels as well as your book that have I finally begun to find peace.... it began with your simple and effective point of the WT's 'selectively interventionist God' Thank you! On another note while watching the Channel 4 Tv show - 'The Handmaids Tale' I couldn't help but think how the Gilead portrayed in it wouldn't be too far from WT's idea of Paradise. You should have had a consulting gig on the show! Keep up the great work and I hope more folks support you on Patreon to allow you to keep up this momentum.

[@catmeow333]

38:05 (Mary is suicidal and the elder “comforts” her with Job scriptures) When I went through a serious depression after losing my husband, car, job, home, children and my health, I too was compared to Job ! The congregation acted like my bad juju was contagious. Do you think we received any practical help ? “Oh, too bad your kids have to live with that worldly family since you lost your house” I hated the Job label, it made me feel like I was being pitied as a loser. I heard someone say “she must’ve done Something to bring this about. Man she can’t catch a break”.

[@vintage1950]

They treat the mentally ill badly. They do to my mum and bless her she still goes. I haven’t been in over a year, it’s the first time in 35 years I feel free.

[@mach9002]

The acting is so terrible

[@kellyfisher8591]

Ryu Mcloyd actually I thought that as well how false 😂

[@jlc6923]

Break off the relationship? How about man-up?

[@leopoldtheseconed8526]

Actually very hard to watch. The emotional abuse I suffered and am suffering is directly I feel from allowing men like this to have control over me.

[@donnaml8776]

Well here it is 2019 and the video is still here on KZbin. You are so correct about how wrong, wrong, wrong these elders are.

[@brunomarsall4077]

Here in 2021 👋

[@fayeroberson8247]

Unbelievable.....makes me sick inside....

[@vandalayindustries8036]

When the guy starts begging to not be disfellowshipped, the elders face at 18:40 is absolutely priceless.

[@jiffypoo5029]

That video is painful to watch. Brings up so many bad memories from my 20's.

[@taylork009]

I can't believe that I truly believed in this at one time. Makes me feel so stupid sometimes.

[@Simone69214]

'I honestly can't even formulate what to say while watching this'. I remember seeing this video, the only comfort I got was to finally see someone going through what I was going through at the time. Lucky I did more than recite some scripture verses and got professional help and got the hell away from that cult.

[@gutterfighter6916]

Cults will never allow anyone to get professional help as the help could set members free.

[@disgusted2072]

How did Robby get the woman pregnant? He clearly has no balls.

[@kittylove2975]

11:11 Hmmmm...Seems to me really knowing someone would make you most qualified... What I've noticed regarding my husband's family, a lot is swept under the carpet by the Elders when sins have been committed by prominent/well liked congregation members of his family (an in law who still goes to meetings for fear of being shunned informs me that matters are kept confidential and treated as never happened/ happening)...

[@southernsal3113]

3 years down the line, and I'm watching this video. 👍👌

[@tamarakobialko558]

You are so right! I was in similar situation like Marry. I'd cry on the meetings, every single breath was a suffering. Elders just assumed I'm still in love with a brother I was seeing before so advised changing congregation and told me that Jehovah helps me and I don't know, maybe I'd feel even worse if he wouldn't. I am so angry after watching it and I am so worried about all those people who are looking for help by them. My relief came with professional help, medication and at the end with leaving organisation in which I was slowly dying. Moment she told them that she has suicide plans, they should humbly admit they're not doctors and they can't heal mental, just like they can't heal physical illness. They should do everything to help her get to the doctor even, if it includes making an appointment on her behalf or giving her ride as depression can be so overwhelming, that even such a small things can be too much for such a person. In my opinion, if she'd proceed with suicide, they should be held partly responsible, just like in the case when they see car accident and they don't help victims and don't call 911, instead they read them bible scriptures.

[@pixels2u]

SHE SEDUCED ME??? Oh get the fk outta here! For real? This is planet Watchtower for ya. SMH

[@RedHotTamale91]

I can't explain how much of a blessing discovering your channel has been for me. I would've really liked to see the end of the judicial meeting video though. It's so interesting to see the "forbidden elder content" 😂

[@virtualcolditz]

37:05 Dear God, are there really people like that creep? 'You know who you remind me of, Mary?' These guys are a million miles from what a real shepherd of the flock should be.

[@nemeanlion2460]

44:00 I think I heard the car start after she leaves the room -- she was like, ' yep, this is all they have to say...I'm out"

[@ashleyc8303]

Lmao now I know not to ask people to come see my aquarium also I think the elders at the end are saying thank you Jehovah for the cookies she remembered.

[@SamsMusicification]

Ashley C we just can't resist those aquariums

[@charles_van_doren]

"How often would you say you succumbed to her advances?" Right. I forgot it's all her. 🙄

[@beekind14]

As horrific as this is, it reminds me when my parents found out I was self harming when I was a teen (and pioneer). They made out like I was sinning, and said when I feel like I'm about to do it, sit in a specific place and read the Bible, and they will know I need help. I actually did this and they never noticed or brought it up again or did anything to help except to take the lock of my door and the bathroom door. They said only adults can experience depression.

[@ababyharpseal6534]

I'm a psychology student, and have also had to counsel several suicidal family members and friends in the past before I could convince them to seek professional help. You're completely right in your belief that the fictional Elders in this video react to a suicidal person in an incredibly inappropriate way. It got me so angry that I had to actually pause the video and do something else for a bit. Sorry for the wall of text, but here is a summary of what this video got wrong about helping suicidal people: If the person has a plan, especially one as detailed as that woman described, and the means and will to enact it, YOU DO NOT LEAVE THAT PERSON ALONE. You better make damn sure that they seek professional help. If the person is at imminent suicide risk and is a danger to themselves - which this woman IS - you drive them to the ER, call crisis services, or even call 911 or a wellness check if they can't be convinced to seek help for themselves. You do NOT tell them that their suffering is somehow shameful, or that they only need to think positively and read the Psalms, and then presumably leave. You ESPECIALLY don't leave them in a situation where they have access to potential suicide methods when you are not 100% certain that they are no longer at risk. The fact that this video was shown to Elders who would learn from it that this is an appropriate way to handle suicidal people is sickening.

[@catmeow333]

When we’re finally driven to the point of suicide it’s far too late to chant a mantra relegating traumatic pain to the same scale as immorality. This poor woman needed relief not preachy platitudes. Misery does NOT love company. I found it frustrating to be compared to Job. Depression and deep grief is not relieved by hearing this kind of advise. When I was on the ledge, only good medical care saved me from stepping off. Thank you for recognizing the depth of pain of the human soul.

[@fisonato]

John Cedars, (Lloyd) where'd you get that shunned T-shirt? I love it!

[@jawa808]

36:56 They're just not switched on at all are they ? I know that they are not exactly acting heavyweights but if someone tried to comfort me in this obsequious monotonous tone I'd be even more inclined to keep my appointment with the tail pipe. No compassion No empathy just this robotic "Oh yes I can see your distressed by the loss of your husband but never mind. Read a pamphlet". Clueless is the word de jour

[@taebeebee]

jawa808 When I was suicidal this is exactly how they spoke to me.

[@neo7566]

How often would you say you succumbed to her advances? 31 times sir. And I hated every minute of it.

[@orpheusuk8762]

How Watchtower treat/manage/tutor/shepherd the rank-and-file is based on a simple principle: "the end justifies the means". Only the end goal matters. Don't place your life in the hands of this man-made, worldly organization.

[@SadoMisio]

Yes, i remember this rebuttal is great. Byt why midroll ads every 5 minutes?

[@Boarwater]

GREAT VIDEO JOHN!! this cult is insane

[@Porceliankitty]

Just a quick note. Oddly enough an elder told my mother that my brother needs professional help for his depression, and told her not to pressure him to go to church, cause the elder actually went through what my brother went through so he was understanding and just went behind bible scriptures and went on a personal approach. I found it very interesting. They did the same with my moms divorce. They didn't disfellowship her. I find it very interesting cause I know that this isn't how watchtower wants elders to be, but the elders in my church are a bit less scary than these English ones. Mines Spanish, and I kinda see how different Kingdom Halls could be so damn different.... So weird

[@jamieangel3766]

I've heard a lot of times that Spanish congregations are much more genuinely loving than the English ones.

[@houstonhandsome1]

Porceliankitty the Latin culture is proven to be a close knit true loving culture amongst each other. I would like to see the makeup of the organization by ethnicity

[@xjwstudent7337]

Yes, not all elders are as uncaring and unfeeling as Mr "Cedars" will have you believe. There are some real genuinely decent people who are JW elders. A few months ago I wanted to talk to one of the elders about my struggle with accepting the 1914 doctine (something that I, as a new JW, still don't accept). There was one elder in my congregation who is really approachable and a genuinely nice guy, and so I went out on the ministry with him one day and I spoke to him of my struggles. I also asked him if the Governing Body ever make mistakes with doctrine. To my surprise this elder told me not to worry about struggling with the 1914 doctrine, and yes the GB do make mistakes. He encouraged me not to blindly accept everything that the GB say as "thus saith the Lord", but to carry out my own personal study from the Bible. He even told me to use just the Bible and not other WT publications for this purpose. I feel as if I could go to this elder with any worries I have. Not all JWs are these uncaring monsters that Mr Cedars often portrays. I am not mocking Mr Cedars as I find his videos interesting and information even, and they certainly have opened my eyes to a lot of things wrong with our religion.

[@professorkaos2781]

I bet your brother was inactive, somewhat inactive or not progressing. Then farm out the help.

[@houstonhandsome1]

JW Student may I ask then WHY are you apart of the religion when you have doubts/disagreements..? Are you baptized. Also mr cedars isn't portraying them in a bad light, they themselves are this is JW elders training video not something he derived on his own. He even says I posted the video so you could see for self knowing you likely wouldn't believe my mere words if I just told you. I would advise you to get out. My mother is 45 years in and I don't see her getting out. I present proof of 75 and 14 it's her giving me some justification I'm like wow. She's even threatened to not allow me in her home. Baffling how they can discredit any and all Christendom but you tell them of the org wrong you are an apostate and they want you out of there presence

[@evemitchellanderson]

I would love to get my hands on that book that never knew about

[@evemitchellanderson]

Ex jw by the way

[@WileChile51]

“I couldn’t stop it!” JFC… I am glad to be an apostate and not brainwashed from birth anymore.

[@marciomaia4020]

The first elder that appears in this video is from my old Congo. Lol so funny, he's the type that's so full of himself 🤑🤑🤑😤

[@lancemilliken9078]

They are all narcissists so you will have to be more specific. They are all full of themselves

[@Neku628]

41:05 So, just ignoring your suicidal thoughts and immoral thoughts are supposed to be ignored, instead of discussed with a counselor? I've had battles with immoral thoughts and I usually have them rambling on and on, even if I reject them or tell them to shut up.

[@PointsofData]

Fun fact; the more you obsess over/worry about certain thoughts, the more you'll think about them. Just the way your brain works.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

15:00 - Nowadays the Watchtower has gone as far as to impose regulations that suggest that J-Dubs should not associate even with baptized members of the congregation if you consider them to be spiritually weak. My brother’s wife’s family have preemptively shunned my wife and I for more than a year. Not because we were so called “Spiritually Weak”. We were active in the preaching work and congregation. But we weren’t spiritually strong enough to live up to THEIR standards of spirituality. Since all of them are Regular Pioneers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, they do not associate with others that are not.

[@misskitty976]

I just saw this. I am profoundly sad that there are people who have willingly surrendered their free will to these absolutely arrogant, astoundingly ignorant leaders.

[@derekfarmer7444]

that part with the suicidal women just made me so angry. my grandma killed herself this stuff is just insane these people are robots it makes me so mad damn it man

[@janetejames]

Sorry for the loss of your Grandma.

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Your videos are VERY useful! I'm learning a lot as a "worldly" person

[@stephajn]

February 2014 was an amazing month for me. It was the month that I really got to find out how deluded the elders in my congregation were. They were trying to counsel me to take a course of action that was blatantly in exact opposition to their teachings on the matter. I showed them strictly using the Bible why what they were telling me was incorrect but they wouldn't hear it. In the end, they threw up their hands and said, "We can't approve of what you're doing, and therefore any practical help you need will not be coming from any of the elder body. We have our positions and freeness of speech in the congregation to think about." (That's an exact quote by the way) . I told them that what they were doing was not shepherding at all. They weren't shepherds, but instead were just elders and that one does not equal the other at all. A few weeks later I moved away from that city and knew I had made the right choice in deciding that this arrangement was a load of crap. After seeing this training video, I'm even more convinced. When I was a teenager, I battled hard against feelings of suicide and depression. I tried reaching out to the elders in my congregation at the time but they didn't want to be bothered and told me I should be talking to my parents about it. As it was, my parents were one of the primary reasons I felt the way I did, but there was no help forthcoming ever. A few years ago, I told an elder that my parents were physically abusive. Well beyond corporal punishment (which is abusive in its very nature) to the point that they left bruises on my body that I had to cover up. He told me that he wasn't surprised and that the elders suspected that was the case even back then. I asked him why they never did anything about it and all he could say was, "Well what could we have possibly done?" Well, a "worldly" organization was responsible for saving me from them and providing me shelter and immediate psychological treatment to begin to recover from what happened. It doesn't matter how old or how young these men are. They are simply unequipped to deal with the reality of the problems that ones face in the congregation. Becoming an elder in the congregation is nothing more than a status symbol. Just like being a circuit overseer or even someone who has positions of responsibility at the local branch office. These men are not servants or shepherds. They are those that take it upon themselves and are given authority from the Governing Body to lord it over others.

[@timwarner4450]

USA National Suicide Hotline [phone]. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is a national network of local crisis centers that provides free and confidential emotional support to people in suicidal crisis or emotional distress 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We're committed to improving crisis services and advancing suicide prevention by empowering individuals, advancing professional best practices, and building awareness.

[@bmeravi]

It is interesting that also they give advice about marriage and some elders NEVER been married.

[@teddyandpete]

The org. named the worldly girl "Lucy"....Lucifer?

[@elongatedmanforever1252]

She just showed me her Aquarium now I'm drowning in her sea.

[@taebeebee]

I was always blamed for my suicidal thoughts and depression. Elders would frequently read me a quote saying something like "the one seeking isolation is stupid" or something. Over and over again. Thanks. Makes me want to isolate myself even more. This same elder constantly told me I was stupid and lazy for having ADHD despite me explaining the symptoms of my mental illness in literal tears to him.

[@charleslomanto]

Thank Jehovah she remembered about those cookies lol!!

[@sprink88]

The cookie moment is worse than I think you make out... when the elder responds to her cookie statement, he raises his eyes to heaven as if to say 'lol, at last, she gets the message - don't harp on about your feelings yous silly bunt - go make us our cookies.' Seinfeld bass line. It's abhorrent.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

18:25 - I personally know a few former witnesses that begged for forgiveness, after being interrogated for hours and having to share the most explicit and personal details of their “sin”, and still be disfellowshipped because of something as trivial as “you are talking to us because you got in trouble and are afraid of the consequences but not because you are truly repentant”.

[@NewEarthWellness]

They "help" the woman 3 times by insulting her by telling her that her thoughts and feelings are irrational? They are the irrational ones.

[@justdavelewis]

I know this is an OLD video, but regarding your objection to the guy elder knowing the lad... I do think its fair that the made up elder wouldn't want to get involved. I know its not quite on par with a court case, but you arent allowed to be a jury member if you have any connection to the case. Sometimes Lawyers and Judges are also not allowed to be part of it for the same reason. Great video on the whole though! Nice one for re-uploading, once of the few videos of your i havent seen!

[@abramgaller2037]

The aquarium conceit is truly awesome,while still being precious.

[@widescreennavel]

The JW video reminds me of the interactive "play" Montague's wife "acted" in as she watched it on their giant TV screen in Truffaut's great film of Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

[@scraggledy]

Yeah, when I have suicidal ideation, homework is just what I need.

[@lancemilliken9078]

Just pray the suicide away

[@platinummom82]

Hey John if there are any other publications that you need or want I can get them for you via my daughter from mother. Obviously she doesn't speak to me but she sure can speak to my daughter because she is not baptized. My life story is so much more easy to deal with watching your videos and knowing I'm not alone in this now cult free life! Thank you

[@KatherineRogers]

It is usual....for people on the loss of a family member...to have emotional swings regarding the loss. The first year is typically the worst, but events years after the death ...can trigger an emotional response. I would advise that people who lose a family member, see their family doctor...and let them know of the situation. The doctor should be staying on top of the situation re any desires to "join the loved one in death". Seeing a grief counselor is also a good idea. As they specialize in the situation of loss of a close friend or family member....they know the signs to look for when progress is problematic. They are also well trained in what NOT to say. Describing any part of this womans thought process as a sin against Jehovah...is a BAD idea. So what can YOU ....do if not a trained professional? You can BE there to LISTEN. You can DRIVE her to the Emergency room or call an ambulance if suicidal. You can determine the tasks that the husband USED to handle.. such as home maintenance tasks....and arrange for those things to be handled. Make SURE that no one male is alone with the female widow or this might lead to gossip, unfounded or with cause. Beware of transference. A strong male presence in a time of crisis might be seen as a romantic advance. With a suicidal person, even if you have a good conversation with them...and while with you...they feel just a bit better so decide not to commit suicide...understand that they are on the edge. If they later in the night feel a bit worse....you may lose them. Please get them professional help. Its better to send 20 people to the doctor that would have been ok ....than to lose ONE that you should have sent. Re suicide with a potential plan....accompany her to the Emergency room. Realize that .....IF you are with someone that is potentially suicidal ....call the crisis hot line 1-800-273-8255. Put the potentially suicidal person on the phone with the counselor. They can assess the risk. NEVER....tell a suicidal person....that their pain is nothing because some OTHER person had a worse situation. This will push MANY people to react with anger and to SHOW you....that they are really in pain by doing a suicidal gesture. If you....the reader....are suicidal, call the crisis hot line or 911. DO NOT hand a person in an emotional irrational state....homework for their rational mind. DO NOT assign non trained people to "stay with" the suicidal person. If they need constant supervision....they need trained professional supervision. A suicidal person can go to the restroom and cut their wrists...even with sitters in the home. This will obviously harm the suicidal person, but will permanently mentally injure the sitters.

[@justaman3916]

Thanks for the timely info!

[@t-streetmusicstudio6749]

Excellent video. Thank you so much for reposting it. The whole situation and beyond laughable! The GB and just a bunch of jokers mate!

[@batgurlaqua]

Non-JW here, so here is the question I want to ask? I've been watching your videos for quite awhile. You've shown videos about the so-call JW paradise where there are families with Dad, Mom and a child or children. So how can the WT justify families in paradise when in the bible says nobody is married in heaven?

[@LloydEvans]

Great question! Honestly, it's a mystery. If you try asking that sort of question in conversation with JWs, they will usually say something like "we really shouldn't speculate." Interestingly, there shouldn't really be children in depictions of paradise, because if procreation is supposed to cease at some point (as the literature suggests) and children who survive Armageddon grow to adulthood, then paradise earth will be a child-free zone within a couple of decades post-Armageddon.

[@Ballykeith]

So does the Watchtower regard Matthew 22: 30 as applicable to the earthly class notwithstanding the reference to men and women being 'as angels in heaven'? If this is the case, then there will not be any procreation at all in the New System - procreation will cease at the point of Armageddon with the last insemination of an ovum of a JW woman. As Vee Jones indicates, all of these depictions of couples in the New System (I've yet to see a mixed race couple by the way) are utterly disingenuous. The Watchtower piece you quote from 1987 (at 29:30) seems to me to be a rare moment of openness by the Society on this matter.

[@scotwm1789]

Vee Jones: The Governing Body (Watchtower's 7 self-appointed, self-anounted spiritual leaders) have stated that human life begins at conception. As we know, many millions of human lives have ended prior to birth. Therefore, many millions of women on the paradise earth will need to become surrogate mothers in order to complete the gestation process of these resurrected unborn children. After they are born, these resurrected children will need to be nursed and cared for. Many of the families with children, who are pictured in Watchtower's paradise earth, are obviously foster parents raising resurrected children.

[@Ballykeith]

Wow, I've never heard of this theory before. Given the phenomenal numbers of spontaneous abortions - I see figures of 70-75% of all conceptions - women are going to be real breeding mares in the New System. Given that 107 billion people have lived www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16870579 , we are talking about gestating three times as many unborn. Sisters get ready!

[@gayle9977]

I believe Scot that if a child is unborn then there is no hope for resurrection, the child has to be born and take a breath of life. That's what I was taught.

[@pgr3290]

If you show me your aquarium I'll show you mine. That old chestnut. Fish leading you into sin. Surprised the elders didn't ask for detailed descriptions of said fish. What shade of blue would you say it was? How big were the fins? How many times did it swim through the underwater arch? Did you maintain eye contact?

[@melissast.louismo4522]

She seduced me! Ha! What a wimp! I'm surprised he could get it up! This is just a ridiculous JW elder video.... you're right, the acting is horrible!

[@Ballykeith]

Elder Sharp: How often would you say you succumbed to her advances? [blames the woman of course] Robbie: Two or three times. Elder Sharp: Two or three times a week? [he's guessing here] Robbie: No, two or three times a day. Elder Sharp: What the fuck!!!

[@barbarahedges1791]

Loved your opening statement to the old goats running the cult, setting their selves in God and Yashua's place.

[@daniellerancour6249]

As Romans 6:23 says it is (“the free gift of God is eternal life”) and is not a wage - not something you earn ( like the preaching work) not something you deserve - You have already been saved through Jesus Christ. The peace that Jesus is talking about is knowing you are righteous in the eyes of God even when you have sinned.

[@BeeMarzipan]

10:21 that montage is just pricelessly hilarious

[@evvalynnv7414]

A pox on you John for reminding me of the insipid, patronizing, unhelpful counselling of the watchtower organisation. I was told I'd have to get the love I needed from the congregation! Fat chance that, a woman newly deprived of a sexual partner, (we all know how randy they are!) how can we show love for her, invite her for dinner? What if she seduces my husband? We haven't got time...JW's are the most emotionally and sexually repressed people I know. Very bad actors too. On a more serious note I will say that I have felt pity for the men who are asked to handle judicial matters when they are forbidden to gain knowledge of psychology or even the rudiments of psychiatry. How can they possibly give understanding and adequate spiritual assistance without it? If I had been the woman in the drama I would have felt rejected and disciplined for my natural thoughts and after they left would have done the deed. What possessed the writers to end it on her forgetting the cookies! I feel sick, only sorry that some of my friends are in that cult and won't see this video.

[@bumrush9422]

at 43:45. I'm at a loss for words.

[@beautyobssessed29]

The point about being objective is 👌👌👌 What difference does it make what your relationship is with the "sinner" if Jehovah makes the decision??

[@XaviorLight]

Thank you Lloyd for reposting this video! It really show the mind set of the JW cult. One thing, I've never heard of a pick up line you want to see my Aquarium before lmao! That is just priceless. I wouldn't mind seeing this secret squirrel book for the JW elders. I do find it interesting how they write it blaming the female for seducing the guy and how it was the female who was suicidal. Could the JW organisation be misogynistic by chance lol? Cheers Xavior L

[@sarahhockett9527]

Has anyone had success asking for their “congregation file”?

[@janetejames]

Thank-you for this video. It explains- 1. my oldest's(JW) total lack of ANY effort to reach out to his blood family when his brother, my youngest, died by suicide and 2.When the family of his brother in law (also JW) said his death was an "accidental" overdose on his prescription medications. I totally get they want to preserve his chance of resurrection,but seriously was one's pain any less than the other?