Lying for Jehovah: Four Examples of Watchtower Representatives Using Theocratic Warfare

(Cedars' vlog no. 216) My Patreon backers asked me to make a video about "theocratic warfare" - the means by which Jehovah's Witnesses justify dishonesty under certain circumstances. And so, in this vlog episode, I show four examples of Watchtower representatives lying on camera in furtherance of "God's cause."
Watch Geoffrey Jackson's testimony at the Australian Royal Commission:
(Part 1) • [Day 8; Part 1]Governi...
(Part 2) • [Day 8; Part 2]Governi...
Watch the full video of Ari Hakkarainen speaking to Susanne Paivarinta... • Video
Watch one of my early videos about WT representatives lying about shunning (featuring Veikko Leinonen)... • If shunning is scriptu...
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[@rickybobby2687]

I use to have a lot of respect for Geoffrey Jackson. The first time I saw his testimony before the Australian Royal Commission I was amazed at how ridiculous, evasive, and lying he was. He changed my opinion by his own words and actions to complete disrespect for him.

[@KingLeonard-wh7gf]

He ain't shit

[@jameshigginbottom632]

Lies a disfellowshipped member is shunned even by their family! I know for a fact that this is true. My wife is a JW and a friends son was disfellowshipped and he is trying to come back to the hall. His own mother was crying because she could not talk to her son. Now that is wrong!

[@whimsical_me5135]

My granny hasn't talked to her youngest son, my uncle, for 30 years, bc he is still df'd. He comes to visit my grandad, who isn't a jw, and my gran still won't associate with him. I know this hurts him, he still loves and misses his mother.

[@PAULLathr-ds6kf]

Everything that Jackson said was a lie. I grew up in the "truth". He is a lier.... They are afraid to tell what they actually teach because they know they are evil.

[@PAULLathr-ds6kf]

​. Correct. The normal family relationships are no longer allowed.

[@barbjoz63]

The fact that they added "don't discourage victims from reporting to the police" is so telling. Hundreds of agencies have policies on how to manage reported sexual abuse and I'd venture to say that none of them have a "dont discourage" clause.... because it's so obvious that you call the police. And if they were updating the policy anyways, why not change it to "Encourage the victim to report to police". They are dancing on a razor's edge with their verbal shenanigans.

[@marciabarton8150]

I have faded and my family treats me just like a disfellowshipped person. They have no contact with me. I have done nothing except fade away because I saw for myself the untruths that was being told and preached. I have done my own research. I did not want to frequent apostate sites for the simple reason that I did not want to trade one propaganda for another one. Your site is point on and you back up what you say be showing both perspectives. You allow every person to make their choice by putting the real truth out there.

[@Cococonutt]

It just infuriates me to no end. They use media to stimulate members emotions and keep them attached. It sickens me.

[@eddieington6243]

Lloyd, thank you so much for this video. I was a JW for 50 years, faded 8 years. When JW's called on me last week I tried to bring their attention to all the child abuse problems in the JW's, Watchtower's inadequate procedures & what it was costing them financially. I was told not to believe everything I read in the newspapers. Jackson's life wasn't threatened in any way, all he had to do was tell the truth but he wouldn't, he lied Not his 'field' apparently even after 10 years in the job!. Now think of all the Jw's that have gone to their deaths because of standing up for the 'Truth' as handed down to them from the Governing Body, men like Jackson. It was a delight to see Angus Stewart catch him out. My parents woke up to TTATT late in life, now in their late 80's they are so encouraged by your work. My very best wishes to you Lloyd.

[@LloydEvans]

Thank you Eddie! Please pass on my love and admiration to your parents, and keep some for yourself. :)

[@eddieington6243]

Thank you Lloyd, my parents were really chuffed with your message. They kind of can't believe there are people like you & the team trying to get the TTATT out into the open. They said to tell you they hope to live long enough to see this self serving, proud & stiff necked JW.org brought to justice. Our love to you.

[@leahbolling6514]

Wow, your parents give hope that it’s possible to wake up at any age!

[@barbarahedges1791]

Did you tell them to go watch the actual court cases with their own governing body member as it was televised ?

[@mahagenyayamazerise4025]

Mr cedars can you please tell me were I can download crisis of the conscience

[@jondouville7452]

Recently i spoke with an elder. George Cook. I asked him if he were aware of a pedophile in the congregation. Would he make it public knowledge to the whole congregation? He said, "No". He would only tell certain members that needed to know. I also asked if He would go to the authorities. Again He said "No" He would only contact the branch office. The other elder present starting getting irritated and said "Do you think this is a pedophile paradise?" My response was "When did i say that" Great video. Thank you

[@grammawpayton]

Good on you for asking! Those disgusting asses know very well that it IS a pedophile paradise!

[@jondouville7452]

Marina Payton I did appreciate his honesty. And realized how uncomfortable they were getting. But that just supports that they know they're in a business that needs to keep its members dumb as rocks

[@marciathehooligan3861]

Ive NEVER seen anyone deemed " an apostate" who was afraid to use Scripture. It has always been the other way around-- JWs dont want to reason from the scriptures with someone who really knows the Bible

[@LloydEvans]

Yes, my first ever "coming out" vlog quoted a number of scriptures, and I continue to quote from the Bible when it's relevant.

[@marciathehooligan3861]

John Cedars The WT are such liars!!!

[@abbyskconned1574]

I dance circles around my Biological brother, an Elder and 20 years my senior, using scriptures. He literally said “you don’t LOVE someone who isn’t obeying Jehovah’s arrangement.” I asked him to please repeat that and he did. I said, “ _____! What about pray for your enemies and those persecuting you? Jesus was dying, and still begged God to forgive his murderers. What about Love is the greatest command, no law greater than love?” He was silent. No reply. Then later accused ME of twisting scriptures? Wow.

[@tb3528]

That's facts

[@kellygreen2038]

@@abbyskconned1574 Even when shown irrefutable facts and truth, they cannot wrap their minds around any idea and or beliefs that differ from what they see and hear as their "truth" as they have been indoctrinated and brainwashed as if they were "prisoners of war"...actually they are prisoners of the JW Cult!! So Sad!! You cannot escape from the JW cult without severe punishment just like a prisoner!

[@grammawpayton]

This therapeutic and validating video makes me so grateful for the internet. I LOVE the access to so many good things. The freedom we have just from being able to get much needed information! And the progressive healing and de-programming is wonderful for victims of cults, like me. I just cannot thank you enough for the excellent logic and commentary! As far as those disgusting, narcissistic, sociopathic, criminal, lying hypocrite WT representatives and upper management, with all their by-God, God-given authority, I hope their septic tanks back-up and flood their basements, and nobody can come help them because they're all out in "service."

[@ravenna8160]

Thanks for the video Lloyd. The David Gnam part about “normal family relations” was an especially unbelievable and maddening statement to me. As someone raised as a JW and now having awaken and faded I understand first hand what it’s like to be treated now as “bad association.” Recently in a conversation with a family member I brought out the point that I find it ironic that JWs frequently reference the scripture regarding “lack of natural affection”, yet how they treat their own sister and daughter is the VERY definition of Lack of Natural Affection.

[@stoicsavage509]

I was treated like the devil from a young age because of my adhd and made feel shame and never felt truly loved... Elders would put pressure on my parents to punish or push me away which happened until the point I couldn't take anymore and left my family home at 16. To this day I have abondonment issues and can never form a lasting, trusting relationship... These sickos and their false personalities and morals absolutely destroy lives.. I'm glad you got out and hope you are well

[@stoicsavage509]

"bad associations spoil useful habits" I still have that phrase burned into memory.. I was treated like Damien as a young child and teenager... I just had to reply to your comment as I related to it so much

[@nikkid4890]

@@stoicsavage509 I am a Neuroclinical Psychologist, and the horror you faced has had a profound impact on your entire life. There is an incredibly helpful therapy technique called Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (DBT). It helps you unravel all the toxic beliefs they have drip-fed you with, and literally allows the brain to rewire itself and undo the trauma damage caused to the neurological circuitry and brain structures. If I was to examine your brain functions using different imaging techniques, the injury they have caused will show up physically. Unforgiveable! I hope and pray that you can find a way to get the help you deserve, and with some hard work on your part too, a radical change will happen allowing you to feel genuine peace and joy again!

[@stoicsavage509]

@@nikkid4890 Thank you so much

[@lofislozano8529]

- THE TRUTH - LUKE 2: 21 After eight days, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived. 22 Also, when the time came for purifying them according to the Law of Moses, they brought him up to Jerusalem TO PRESENT HIM TO JEHOVAH, 23 just as it is written in Jehovah’s Law: “Every firstborn male must be called holy to Jehovah.” :D - THE TRUTH -

[@shortpotato26]

Shunning is disgusting, no matter how its painted. It tears families apart.

[@X_Leonhart]

I was about to write the same. It's just as bizarre and sickening as the blood rejection rule. Can't believe JW's are acting as if their realetives were dead, when they are just a phonecall away... Even when I was inside the cult I could not be that cruel, and still gave a smile and my attention to those who were shunned.

[@lisa.222]

the only reason people shun is like to dismiss bad influences I mean if you're like a person that does bad things I don't think people are going to want to hang with the people that do bad things like you don't need to show them you can keep seeing the person it's just don't do the things that they do I mean it's not even that deep

[@reneehoney7355]

It is especially when nasty details start pouring evertwhere how does that keep anything clean. They squeeze all the filth then leak it all over the congregations. I had to fight off men in and worldly men because they told everything. Its bad when worldly people know why you are disfellowshipped. And that it was because a married elder seduced a 17 year old newly baptized sister who didnt even want to get baptized. I wanted to go to college. When a girl gets baptized ahe becomes prey for these men like property. Its not apostasy that is getting tbem sued irs that they are trifling and the coverups are sick. I hope they pay to the last dime. I hate when u hear them lie. Its a good thing they disarm with their no guns noshall martial arts policy.

[@lisa.222]

@@reneehoney7355 I don't know what kind of congregation or whatever you been to but all the congregations I've been suing never been like that I mean my friend be baptized like last year she 17 and it doesn't mean anything other the fact that she that she just identifies as a Jehovah's Witness now but other than that life goes on as normal everybody has their own life to go to church you leave church with your family everybody go their separate ways you go to church you pray you socialize you laugh be nice to everybody in and out and that's it my mom wants me to get baptized but it's only when I'm ready they say that you have to get baptized only when you're ready we can put pressure on people so wherever you been people been doing you wrong and they're going to get consequences for their actions in the end cuz that's just messed up

[@lisa.222]

@@reneehoney7355 and the people who are hiding things that other people do in the congregation that are nasty are sinning by themselves cuz we not supposed to keep Secrets like that when you see a fellow brother or sister do something wrong either you tell them about it that means they need to stop or you're going to talk to the congregation or the people suffering whatever you need to go see the police or something cuz at the end of the day we're all humans Bible says we are all imperfect we are all individuals one of our rules is you need to respect the law of the state and if somebody commits a crime or does something that is like criminal Behavior they need to be not only out of the congregation that they need to be checked

[@anniezaragoza6260]

Next time someone asks something I don't want to answer truthfully I'm gonna bust out with "that's not my field." I'm gonna call it pullin a Jackson

[@Xerfing]

Annie Zaragoza LoL

[@davidscritchfieldds]

It's amazing how the org tells everyone how they should be proud of their beliefs, and take every opportunity to speak with others about the "truth". But when the cards are in the table, and the leaders are asked to openly talk about the more controversial policies and teachings, they can't follow their own counsel. This was an excellent video, and showed some clips I hadn't seen before. I was a bit surprised you didn't show the JW broadcast clip where Lett denies that the org would ever protect pedophiles, but I think your clip was actually a bit better as far as the level of detail, and amount of lies that were told.

[@joytoyouandme4593]

nextlastgengamer - Yes wouldn’t it be great if a copy of the letter Letts wrote to the Father of a molested child, could be provided for a video, followed by his video stating that child abuse is an apostate lie. Personally it would be great to have a copy of the letter, so each member of the VAA could send it with a letter to Mr Letts, asking for a response to the lies he tells on the video- A couple thousand letters hitting his desk would certainly make his eyebrows raise in that clown face-

[@mariafagbuyi5516]

Next time when the elders in the Congregation "remind" me that I have too much contact with my disfellowshiped son, I will show them the video of the Canadian high court. I love my son and I will not allow anybody to tell me that I can not see him whenever I want it.

[@fifthdimension1984]

Exactly. Syand up for commonsense.

[@mariafagbuyi5516]

@@fifthdimension1984 I did and left the Organisation Oct. 2019

[@ooklathemok7322]

Thank you! Cedars. I want to applaud your efforts in this video. It is like a gut punch to watch the shunning videos, and then have this jw lawyer under oath talk about normal family relationships continue! I know that hits close to home with you John. Thanks for continuing to lay bare this family wrecking machine! Your work accomplishas so much good.

[@vanoramoon674]

Jeffrey Jackson disgusts me. As a member of the governing body and an elder, he has handed down the rules to separate families (shunning) etc. and then he acts stupid when questioned. Just makes me angry.

[@FelixVW]

He even lies before court. There's a pdf about corporal punishment (Royal Australian Commitee), and he's under oath. He lies. Because he says that "punishment" doesn't mean the literal rod.

[@1chadmon]

The outright lying! Absolutely astonishing. Watching this I was yelling at my screen!!!! Thank you for another scathing rebuttal! We Apostates are way more honest than even the “governing body” I’m afraid! And you are 100% SPOT ON that if shunning was truly biblical, they should be PROUD OF IT! They should point out that this ridiculous and hateful policy is one of the things that sets them apart as the one “true” religion. Wow, that’s all I can say, just wow.

[@kaylabreault519]

As a disfellowshipped ex-JW I love your commentary..the organization makes it seem like you aren’t completely shunned when in reality you are..this hits home to me. Thank you ❤️

[@stellawil]

Kayla Breault so true. I'm not disfellowshipped nor have I written a letter to disassociate. Yet I'm being shunned by 2 former "friends" because I'm inactive and have said I don't want to return.

[@lwethungwenya6772]

You knew the consequences of your actions. You cannot blame others for that .Instead of shaming the organization, you could simply keep quite

[@lwethungwenya6772]

Lies

[@sierra8041]

Lwethu Ngwenya Yeah, I bet you do want us to keep quiet. You don't like hearing the truth. You guys hate being called on your bull shit... Also, you don't even know what they got kicked out for. Very judgmental for a so called "Christian". Is this how you treat people out in service? I can answer that. No you don't. You put on that J-dub smile and pretend like you care.

[@kaylabreault519]

Harrison Davis um im disfellowshipped so bye lol

[@oscarc5391]

I thought this was one of your best videos of the many great videos on watchtower tactics and there outright hypocritical behavior there is no way any witnesses can view this video without coming to the realization of the hypocrisy and double standard of watchtower if they have the courage to watch this video and want to know the truth

[@barrymorrison8013]

"The first casualty when war comes is truth." My, my. Yet the rank-and-file are Watchtower-whipped for rule breaking from beards to wrong thoughts. Have these guys no shame? Apparently not. A solid piece of work Llyod. Thanks again and be well.

[@legogamertv4932]

My husband and I are former JWs. We both grew up as JWs. We both left the organization for many years and then returned bc we thought we wanted a better life for our children. I was disfellowshiped in July 2019. Since then, my family has been harrassed, threatened and treated like rabid dogs. Our neighbors, relatives and now former landlord are all JWs. Bc of JWs, my family was left homeless. They are such horrible people. Thank you so much for all of your insight in to the truth about this organization. You understand how JWs have made me and many others feel. I started watching you after being disfellowshiped. You have truly helped me thru this difficult time.

[@nomorecogdiss3395]

Excellent presentation. I don't know how you keep your cool when you discuss these topics. I was fuming hearing it again. Well done! :)

[@debbieoliver9923]

I am literally sitting on the edge of my chair with such animosity toward the smugness of the GB, the deceitful group of men leading my family into their grips. I have my own little rebuttal going on here! Lol. Another fascinating and educational video Lloyd.

[@BrentRF]

I can only imagine your feelings now with the video of Tony "tight pants" Morris on his booze run.

[@DutchJoan]

For the sake of the next generation children I hope that you, and others like you, can reach the young and spark any doubt they might already have so they will break free.

[@leileyaravencroft]

Wait a minute! Why on earth would they promote lying when I could have sworn it is apart of one of the Ten Commandments? Thou shalt not bear false witness. The amount of mental gymnastics that the JWs have to perform in order to keep believing that their religion is in the right is mind blowing!

[@chrystianrodriquez]

There's a video by one of the gb members that says that the 10 commandments don't apply anymore... It is baffling.

[@jeremiahpatlan]

They would reply that they aren't under the mosaic law, which is true. Still doesn't make lying right.

[@donnaml8776]

It’s strange because they say they’re not under the Mosaic law but every reason they give comes from the Mosaic law so even in that they lie. They definitely don’t live under the New Testament and show mercy and grace. I don’t think they even know what mercy and grace is.

[@cindymartin7339]

Well said!

[@teresap3923]

First, let me say thank you Lloyd, for all you do to help so many people. My first disfellowshipping was in 81 for divorcing ..Once wasn't enough I went back for more punishment remarried in the congregation which was a slight improvement but I was disfellowshipped again when I divorced once again ..My younger sister had left the organization after a horrible marriage . Her husband was inappropriate with a minor girl..When she was disfellowshipped for leaving him though nothing happened to her husband. I was told I couldn't associate with her anymore. that was it for me.. the dominos began faling and I left the religion completely. . I lost everything. Family and friends. At the time, I still thought I'd die at Armeghddon but, I no longer cared ..I wanted freedom and my sister. Oh, the stories I could share.. my meetings with the elders were straight up like dark comedy. lol Blessings to all those who feel trapped and those who have made it out. There is life after leaving ..:)

[@dearmomanddadletterstomyje8522]

"Theocratic warfare" i.e. lying to "God's enemies", is an idea can be used to justify anything witnesses say to non-believers (or even fellow Witnesses, as not everyone is deemed "entitled" to know certain things.) In practice, it really means that Witnesses have no obligation to tell people the truth--either because they're "God's enemies" or aren't "entitled" to get the full story about anything. Its an easily exploitable loop hole and this drives me batty.

[@cindymartin7339]

Prayers for you I hope your parents see the light and come back to you

[@morgan_drui]

What kind of shitty parent would do this to there child?

[@usanineoneone]

The same shitty parent who doesn't call the police after their child is raped by a congregation member.

[@jonsixtythree]

A profoundly deluded one.

[@monalina1000]

mine for example 😥😥😥

[@solismasonry1807]

A good JW

[@caitlynsinclaire5599]

Stew The same one who would let their child die rather than receive a blood transfusion

[@metalhead6828]

Well collated and put together truths about the watchtower antics. You can understand why the Watchtower threatens it's people about reading, researching etc any material that is detrimental to it, including lies and false prophecies of the past and present. In past decades they could easily dodge the bullet, but in this internet era, information and knowledge is freely available which is devastating to cults like the Watchtower. Keep up the good work John.

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

How does the first elder know if ex- jw- considered apostate don't ever use scriptures? He shouldn't know if he's not supposed to listen or speak to them. Many do use scriptures and even you Mark bring up their very own scriptural arguments they use in their literature. My sister want take to me and that's not just on religious matters. Not at all! I would be happy if she talked to me about anything but religious dogma.

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

Sorry John.😁

[@RandomPerson-js3rc]

Personal desition, but not without punishment for not shunning their family.

[@codyb8238]

Geoffrey Jackson got absolutely wrecked by Angus Stewart. “So it is your field then?” The following deer In headlights expression speaks volumes

[@aleksandrap.9192]

Angus Stewart is a star, he doesn't take any bullshit from the witnesses at the comission. I watched most of it when it was streaming live in 2015 and I just admired how inteligent and well prepared this guy is.

[@LudovicSzilagyi]

Angus Stewart know better the scriptures then Geoffrey Jackson !!

[@LudovicSzilagyi]

I was criticized from Jehovah's witnesses because I say the same thing ! Thank you Aleksandra !

[@aleksandrap.9192]

They don't even try to be objective. Before I faded I thought that Governing Body consists of men that are highly inteligent, like Angus. But they are just bunch of ordinary grandads. It would be better for them to stay hidden and not take part in broadcastings.

[@LudovicSzilagyi]

Excellent idea i will made a video with this idea !!! Thanks Alexandra !!!

[@CanaldoUrim]

This is already one of the best videos of the year. Congrats.

[@OlgaBailer]

wonderful video - theocratic warfare is just a fancy expression meaning - deceitfully crud behavior

[@LudovicSzilagyi]

Sick , ill behavior !!!

[@jenniescales8631]

Liar, liar, Tight pants on fire! Hmm.....maybe a good idea for a tee shirt, Lloyd?! On a serious note, I can't believe the hypocrisy and crooked thinking of these people and that I was taken in for so long, it makes me so angry as the one thing I can't stand is being lied to. It really was a rude awakening and a slap in the face listening to Geoffrey Jackson lie under oath at the ARC- part of my waking up process along with your videos.

[@lisa.222]

One of the main things about being a Jehovah's Witness is that you always have to tell the truth like literally I'm a Jehovah's Witness and these are lies cuz I've been surrounding my entire life by people from different religions and most of my family is Jehovah's Witness but a lot of them are not and they see like people make these big ass things about Jehovah's Witnesses but it's not even that deep like literally my entire life we it's always been told the truth be nice to people be slow to anger live the same life don't be mean to people help people if they need you whether they're Christian or not you're not allowed to judge people and all that literally all that stuff and none of it is negative so people are going to hate and it literally says in the Bible that were not perfect if some people do corrupt stuff that has nothing to do with your relationship with God

[@BrentRF]

@@lisa.222 The Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets. 1975 and the generation of 1914 were both lies. False prophesies are the "fruits" of false religion. Over the last century the JW's have made 12 false prophesies. Covering up child molesters is not the mark of a true religion, it's pure evil.This is clear proof the governing body is not guided by any holy spirit and completely ignores Matt 24:36. The JW's also condone spousal rape. JW wives cannot refuse sex.

[@melanysplanet5008]

BrentRF but a lot of Christian places "don't cover up child molesters"? There have been so many news reports about many many many pastors that sexually abuse they're congregations children. But nobody says anything about that or even bats an eye at them?

[@melanysplanet5008]

Or about how much money they steal for their own interests, you HAVE to give money to be a part of other religions, and you don't think that's worrisome?

[@tiyom1]

Excellent compilation as usual Lloyd, the mental acrobatics is shocking. Now I am out, it's like an alternative universe

[@fillingthebookshelf7083]

I am so damn tired of being still „kind of a member“. This is so disgusting. thank you Lloyd!

[@WistfulCreative]

This may be the best video you have ever made...

[@LudovicSzilagyi]

Exactly !

[@Sharkor.2023]

I forwarded this to my JW mother, and shared it with so many non JW friends so that they can see exactly what I've gone through. They are flabbergasted and can't believe it

[@redhotpanicgirl]

As a professional victim advocate I would like to bring to attention that LESS THAN .02% of ALL sexually violent crimes are ever SUCCESSFULLY prosecuted (adult or child). And, it is a very traumatic event to attempt to prosecute one's perpetrator. The victim will very likely be re-victimized by more than one branch of the legal and judicial system that secular governments have put into place to "support" them. Thus continuing the trauma a victim experiences. A wise victim advocate knows that though suggesting, or even as far as recommending, that a victim report a crime of sexual violence to the police or authorities it is always up to the victim how they choose to proceed, and support should be offered regardless of choice (or outcome). In fact, supporting the victims choice in the matter is the first step toward healing and reclaiming personal power; the core thing that was taken from them as a victim. Same holds true with a victim of domestic violence and reporting to police or obtaining a restraining order. This could actually escalate the lethality of their particular situation. Yes, I do believe that clergy (or whatever title such may hold) should be held as a mandated reporter; especially as regards violence of any sort toward a minor child (sexual, physical, familial). However, as a mandated reporter I know that one only has to provide the very basic of information: what is alleged to have happened, the names, ages and/or birthdates, and contact info (if known) of those involved. Very simple, and can be done anonymously; however the identity of the reporting party is always kept confidential for their protection. Also to be clear, mandated reporting related to minors is most often done, and required by most state laws, to be made to the state agency for child protection (not the police); however both agencies (police and child protection) will contact the other agency if any real suspicion is evident. I can only speak for the United States. The Watchtower Society would be wise to adjust protocol such that if they do not wish local Elders to contact the authorities, but rather the Legal Department at Headquarters first (to obtain sound legal counsel), that the Legal Department at Headquarters be the sole mandated reporter for the entire organization and act in accordance with local law. It is not for any of us to act as secular judge and jury (if they want to act as spiritual judge and jury that is up to them), the legal system must work its self out in its own time frame...and this does not always occur in the victims favor or in their best interest. The global system as relates to these sorts of crimes is still coming upon its own awareness, with as much backlash as progress made. And this awareness and advancements in protection of victims is relatively new, only within my lifetime of 50 years. I feel that "Render unto to Ceasar, Ceasars' things - and unto God, God's things" (or however it goes) is appropriate here. Simply reporting the suspicion of a crime against a minor child to the appropriate secular authority would definitely constitute that very definition, at least as I understand it. And I would hope for the sake of all children that a person's conscience is extra refined so as not to allow a sliver of an opportunity of either disbelief or denial as relates to sexual, mental, or physical abuse. Adults are the only instrument of protection that God and/or Christ have on this earth...and children are our greatest treasure! (end of rant)

[@Cara-vd7yf]

Thank you for pulling all that information together. This attitude is what caused me to question then totally reject the organization. Hugs, Caren

[@Eric_01]

This information will never age out. Four years later and this was AWESOME work, Lloyd.

[@piperatthegates914]

spot on. but i would like to add that , it was horrid as a mother bringing her kids to the hall - with nobody speaking to her. I was married to an unbeliever, but once they realised that they could not get a bible study with him, we were in sort shunned. we came to meetings time and time again, just me and my little kids - nobody talked to us. we had to sit in the back room, but even when i set us out front - no one talked to us. I could not put my kids through that any longer. It was horrendous. That is when I left and never turned back Lloyd. It is a very sad story. .My kids still remember - and that is what makes me so sad.

[@caitlynsinclaire5599]

Tamara HAMMERSCHMIDT That is sad. Don't blame yourself, it's not your fault. It's the GBs and elders that enforce this practise and the congregation for doing that to you and your kids.

[@kellifielder3405]

TONY TIGHT PANTS TSHIRT!!! mine came in the mail yesterday! Love it!!!!

[@Satanic_Leftist]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="780">13:00</a> you know those parents are bad people because they eat pizza with a fork and knife like some kinda deviant.

[@tintinismybelgian]

Maybe, they wear dentures and cannot safely/comfortably bite into pizza anymore.

[@aprayingatheist2378]

@@tintinismybelgian no they're obviously just freaks

[@mewsingsbynatk]

That’s an insult to people who eat pizza with a fork and knife.

[@ruthylopez1575]

What really grinds my gears is how these men say they decided if the person is really repented and if not they make the decision to Disfellow them. Jesus died for us! These men have no say when we are forgiven or have any right to publicly discipline a Christian. How these JW's dont make that connection goes to show how deeply indoctrinated they are. These are men Running the ORG not God. Jesus is our mediator to God not elders!

[@ivymccrory2189]

Amen, Amen, Amen.. Ruthy

[@tinyaboo]

This was excellent Lloyd! Well Done! Keep up the good work🖒

[@blitzblutz2049]

I find that the JWs lie all the time. That is what made me leave that cult.

[@j3in725]

It's not that they lied all the time, it's that they tell untrue things to "protect their god" while in fact the most powerfull person in the universe shouldn't need protection of a bunch of humans he even created himself! The word hypocrisie only a plies to others for them. Same with the child sex abuse scandal, I remember how the Catholic Church would get called out at meetings conventions and special visits when they are doing the exact same thing, and all of a sudden you don't hear anything about that anymore.

[@Xerfing]

Ňøtøriü they actually lie constantly. I do have jws that even lie on everything they do, and they are even elders but they get drunk, blatantly lie to other family members, abuse medications, lie on their taxes, you name it.

[@y7x719]

Jehovah don't need people to lie for him.

[@cuhooligan1126]

Yeah, "Mighty God" indeed.

[@florarix7091]

One of the things I didn't hear you mention is about the two witness rule. They get around and justify their actions by saying that if you don't have two or more witnesses that can support you in your allegation, you don't have any grounds to accuse them. How many people, especially children, are going to have someone be able to stand up for them when they accuse someone of sexual abuse? They sweep things under the rug because they don't want anyone to know and don't want to lose members. The thing I've learned about JWs is that they want you to be loyal to the association. They use the guise of saying it's being loyal to Jehovah but in reality it's being loyal to them. As if they are perfect. Yet I remember 2-3 years ago, an article in a watchtower mag that said and even claimed they were not spiritually led. It surprised me to see this. But it must be that most must have missed this. It's extremely important that people in the congregation and especially the elders and governing body are led by the Holy Spirit. And yet they believe they are the only ones in the whole world that are saved.

[@mamabear8555]

So God cannot tell a lie. He does not lie. But he uses humans to lie...mmmmmkkkkk. I'm just fuming right now. It makes me so mad to see them lie about truths that really DID happen to me and my children and still to this day being treated as if I don't exist even though I'm not disfellowshipped. I don't undestand how any JW can reason when it comes to lying. There should be no exception.

[@lenitaa7938]

Well, one valid exception would be if during a Nazi or a Dictatorship time, ' Are u hiding any Jews?'

[@maryannlockwood3961]

Wish those video clips could be emailed to that court & that JW attorney disbarred.

[@paulbuswell6566]

My thoughts exactly. As a legal professional he must be held to a higher standard than a normal cult member. He blatently committed perjury here, and must be held to account. I'm no barrister, but could a case be brought against him? A crowd funded effort? I know I would contribute. The society would never let a GB member come to trial, and would throw millions of dollars in to stop it (as they did with Losch) But they might let a minion take the fall?

[@ŚmiemWątpić]

The clips are extremely disturbing. Thanks for the great work Lloyd! :)

[@peterb0915]

This video made me think of the story of Jonah. When told to go to Ninevah, he was scared to face the opposition, and so attempted to flee to Tarsus instead. The Governing body, instead of "going to Ninevah" (being truthful), chooses to "flee to Tarsus" (lie to courts and governments). Thanks for your sharing of knowledge Lloyd.

[@aimeecastonguay497]

When I was young my family went on as normal aside from a reminder that so and so is after all disfellowshipped. In the mid eighties my Uncle a circuit overseer gave a wedding for his disfelloshipped daughter. I still talk to that cousin frequently.

[@creeib]

This was my life 50 years ago. Still dealing with the crap.

[@tanyadepoalo9085]

If lieing or being evasive to protect yourself from danger or harm or protect your loved ones...im ok with that. I'm not ok with shunning or the deceit of JWs on the issues of shunning or child abuse. Excellent video!

[@aleksandrap.9192]

The insecurity about shunning is one thing but probably more important reason for denying it is that they don't want potential new followers to be put off the organisation.

[@TheVerbalAssassinFAFO]

Aleksandra P. Yes, because they KNOW it makes them look like psychos.

[@TheVerbalAssassinFAFO]

Aleksandra P. They also don't want to look like the "captive" organization they actually are.

[@stellawil]

CrystalBluPrswayjun I remember the 1981 announcement making this a captive organization. I'm 40 and just woke up

[@simonmartinez324]

I’ve shared this video on all of my social media’s, here in the states immigration is a huge topic and yet so many have no idea the organization that is responsible for sending happy family loving people to your door is responsible for the separation of thousands of families annually

[@ozstriker22]

THIS IS GREAT NEWS!!!! I’m so excited!!!! Being DF’d for 15 years myself, I can’t wait to send the original video of the Canadian attorney saying “we can resume normal family relations” to my pioneer mom and brother!!! I’m sure they’ll welcome me back with open arms 🤪🥵🤔😈

[@Creatusnow]

I have bean shunned for 15 years now, the text of revelation <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1264">21:4</a>," for the old order of things has passed away" gives me peace of mind. For me Armageddon already happened now i feel the peace of Jesus more then ever!

[@jameshigginbottom632]

Apostates do reason with the scriptures

[@joytoyouandme4593]

James Higginbottom - This is so true- I have responded to many JW comments here on You Tube- with scriptural reasoning- Not One has responded to counter the scriptures- I don’t believe anything that comes out of a JW mouth, unless they can back it up with sound scriptural evidence, which is never the case-

[@jameshigginbottom632]

Joy to you and me so true my wife is a JW she says she will not discuss religion with me, but she insist I go to the hall with her for support. I literally have to listen to their propaganda. Last week they talked about doing what the faithful and discreet slave says no matter if it makes sense or not. The were putting down higher education. Makes me sick that they can’t see that they are being brain washed!

[@caitlynsinclaire5599]

James Higginbottom Yes that's what I was thinking when he said that. In fact, I pointed out the scripture in Mathew where they derive the 2 witness rule to my Jw Dad and how it does not describe the process they actually use. He responded by accusing me of listening to apostates. I refuted that I had literally just quoted from the Bible, not any apostate! All you have to do is read that scripture and it is clearly obvious their process is wrong!

[@jameshigginbottom632]

Caitlyn Sinclaire I know they have been Institutionalized and trained not to believe anything anybody else says. They’re not even supposed to look at anybody else’s literature. However they sure want to let make you read their stuff

[@gbnomore3918]

wow

[@kilgoretrout2698]

Amazing job! Best video yet. Thank you so much for this - Breakfast of Champions

[@eragonzaroc]

I knew about this since the 80's. You are presenting the real truth.

[@pugsnpizza3262]

JAW DROPPING LIES! I cannot believe they have the nerve to stand there and lie like that!!! My mouth literally dropped.

[@ludefrk001]

I'd like to add my experience first off your video is super accurate, I guess my old congregation is more liberal some have talked to me all be it to come back. I was shocked that certain witnesses would even address or hug me. Some still shun me hardcore, but I see some riffs amoung the ppl especially as they grow older.

[@caitlynsinclaire5599]

Very powerful video Lloyd. I really liked how you show footage of JWs and written material within JW publications all as evidence of the points you're making.

[@angedav]

Fantastic video. One of my favourite. I would add, if you don't mind me doing so, the terrible performance of Terrance O'Brien before the ARC desperately lying in order to spare Jackson to be summoned before the commission.

[@joanferguson4194]

My favourite part of O’Brian’s testimony is when Angus Stewart, being professional and very clued about the JW bullshite asked if he, O’Brian,had instructed the Watchtower lawyer to lie to the court!! The stunned look on O’Brian’s face was like he was going to have a stroke! Both of those idiot elders were shocked by Angus Stewart’s intelligence and determination to make them give truthful answers.

[@thebro1991]

I've watched a few people on KZbin. You truly are one of the only ones that does not show a strong bias view. You have stated what is seen from evidence that you also provided. Very good video. I'm strongly agreeing regarding the shunning and you can't argue that when it's clearly expressed in the recent movies released at conventions.

[@wendybusby9415]

AAAh, Now I get it. My husband was raised in this cult, was never baptized and faded when he left home. I am not a believer in anything but I know the bible pretty well. Anyway. when I would talk to members of his family who were still in the cult and ask them questions they always said " I don't know." I always wondered how they could believe in something so extreme and not understand it. Now I know, I was not worthy so they could lie to me or they are so brainwashed they do not know. Good Video. Thank you, you have given me some insight. They do still harass us even He faded forty five years ago.

[@uusijani]

Great point about the lack of pride in shunning, it really is quite striking now that you've articulated it. It stands in contrast to how they do seem to take pride in, say, the blood policy (from an outsider's POV at least). Both are destructive, yet one is flaunted, while the other is treated like the shameful half-secret that it is.

[@bethanyscruggs7784]

My mom was disfellowshipped and not only was she completely shunned, but so we're my sisters and I.

[@sebastiansauve3752]

In regards to child abuse, the Elders MOST definitely do their best to convince (or force them) not to call the authorities. My wife and her siblings were horribly abused by their mother and the Elders covered it up for years. Even when my wife or her siblings got older and wanted to leave, the Elders would guilt them into staying in the household because it would bring reproach on Jehovah. They would even go to the extreme and tell them they are being selfish because they are leaving their younger siblings alone and they know they need them and they would be responsible if something happens to their younger siblings. It is utterly disgusting!!!

[@GEC416]

they lie when it suits their purpose....such hypocrisy...

[@shewokeup_exjw7680]

I was told, You cannot talk to anyone in the congregation, I'd have to sit in the back of the k hall or in a library while being DF and could not come in during the prayer and could only come in the hall after the prayer. Such lies by that lawyer. They are evasive, they leave out the actual facts, and what they tell the court.

[@johnmcdonnell8977]

If they drop the shunning the organisation is finished, it is a major part of this outfit.

[@portiasnyder1812]

Thank you so much for posting this information ! You have opened my eyes as well as my husband ! Can't believe the out right lies wow!!!

[@robscott351]

Very Good video, caught them in the act! I will also point out that as my father was an Elder for many years and even a presiding overseer. I saw how they dealt with many disfellowshipped people. When the lawyer/liar in the first clip says you can sit wherever you want, that was not the case at all. Only a couple of Elders could speak to the disfellowshipped people, and that was minimally. And they made sure they sat at the BACK of the kingdom hall, and talked to no one else, and left as soon as it was over! And yes all were heavily shunned by family and friends who were JW's!

[@BALCACER]

Once again, you did a homerun with the bases loaded, beisball expresion.

[@dolf5039]

So... now we can expect they will lie anytime they deem it necessary... because, now they can claim it's justifiable. Who would want to deal with anyone in this group, after having this information. Their Theocratic Justification is twisted.

[@Maddy-ny8dz]

I love your shirt 😂

[@maryannlockwood3961]

👖

[@samanthamiranda1825]

Hi, I've been watching your videos for a while now and fortunately had been enjoying having a different view point based on what I was taught by jehovahs witnesses. Just as a suggestion you should make a video dedicated towards jw bible students and what they should know before making a major decision in their life.

[@iheartvintagefinds6094]

Lloyd, I appreciate this video so much❣️I was a JW for 40 years. Disfellowshipped for 5 years now, waking up to the truth about the truth. Finally making the truth my own❣️Thank u for all your work! All the best to you & your family.🖤

[@andysouidhou9710]

Yet another really good video bro. It's great how you logically state your points and use proper evidence to back them up.

[@kaydenpat]

There should be consequences for lying in court after taking an oath to tell the truth.

[@janebennett4512]

Thank you yet again Lloyd for a thoroughly researched and totally honest video. Unlike those of the WT. I was incandescent when listening to those lying hypocrites, if only I could send the clips to my son and sister. I’m not df’d but ‘normal family relations’ don’t obtain now never mind if I was!! Liars!!!! P.s hope you and your family had a wonderful holiday. Xx

[@moltenmermaid1517]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="485">8:05</a>

[@diyguyawake8107]

Great Job in exposing these lies and deceptive ways of these Men! Well Done again! Thank you!

[@leicafox4403]

Omggggg I found an a video I hadn't 'liked' yet! Excellent content as always. Love seeing you destroy Watchtower's shroud of lies.

[@samdash3216]

wow ... the quality of this video is just off the charts .. keep up the good work!

[@dorfus71]

And yet the purple triangles, brothers in Malawi and witnesses over the years suffered even to the point of death in their loyalty. Could they not just lie and deny their loyalty to Jehovah? It is sickening to see the spirit of self preservation in this publishing cult.

[@valkyrieanduril1345]

"Put your trust in jehovah" literally means "turn off your instincts and obey the men in power"

[@CoachSpongeLoL]

When your mom asks for your grades . "I would have to check on that because personally that's not my field".

[@Chessam89]

I can't focus on your video because that shirt is just so epic!!! I died laughing the second I saw it.

[@TheTadziofan]

Member of the GB: "It's not my field", OMG!!!! And they advise and admonish and believe they have the key to heaven.

[@carolinelvsewe]

This video is so well done. Thank you!

[@sabrinaschulze1923]

Thanks Lloyd for another great video the hypocrisy of the governing body member was mind-blowing leaves me great evidence that leaving this cult was the best thing I could ever do even I beeing shunned is hard for me now. the evidence is out there thanks to wonderful people like you❤️

[@LawnBowlerUK]

I used to watch these videos in order to see wether it really is the truth or not. Now I'm watching them and I get very very angry! I'm 25 minutes in, and this guy is the most disgusting liar I've ever seen! Fantastic job finding these clips and great video. Now the public watchtower and awake magazines are quarterly, have you considered making a debunking video for those too?

[@Royal-Jaywick]

I think that swat team need to round them all up now ,I have had enough of them and their deceit ..I lost everything because back in 2012 as I stood by their truth which turned out to be lies. Now in the last week I am being shunned and I am not a baptised JW, for trying to tell 5 jws about the ARC .Flip I am sick of this .This tower must topple soon ,it just has to .I can't even put it into words ..how I feel right now.

[@rxa-z1124]

Great video Lloyd. Great video. Thanks for your work.

[@merylbarnes2770]

This was incredibly telling. Thank you so much for this video.

[@janedow9782]

The conditions set by the WT about theocratic warfare are one thing, I can agree that there are times when I am not under obligation to reveal information to people, this is a normal part of life, this is not lying, this is protecting oneself and family from potential danger. This is what Rahab did. The problem arises for me, when I find out that the organization views me, the baptized Jehovah's Witness as the enemy, as a person who is not worthy of accurate information, this really angers me and has caused me to examine all their teachings. Great video, thanks John.