"Realistic" Batman is Boring and Here's Why

[@RowanJColeman]

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[@90lancaster]

Batman has a picked pool of source Material Problem in the same way Star Trek Movies have a problem with remaking The Wrath of Khan. I'd personally like a 1970's Batman on screen... that was an interesting period for Bruce Wayne especially.

[@daviddyster4145]

@@90lancaster that would be interesting, a Batman set in a deferent time period in live action.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

Except Robin is lame.

[@90lancaster]

@@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388 He's still better than Damien Wayne.

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

@@90lancaster Damien is a whack character.

[@Tirak117]

I think folks that don't like Robin have this image in their head that hasn't changed since Adam West and Robot Chicken after that. Him being a ridiculous character is a meme from those, but Robin in DC lore is a very deep and interesting character. Watching how the various Robin's grow up with their relationship to Batman has produced some of the best Batman and Robin stories. It's a little sad they don't know what a complex and interesting character the Robins can be.

[@chrisheimva4857]

Batman & Robin sadly did a lot of damage to the public perception of Robin. It seems like in recent times this has softened considerably thanks to a growing awareness of how deep and interesting the character can be (Ex. Teen Titans). I too am hoping that Robin will FINALLY be brought back into the live-action film canon with this Reeve's series.

[@YggdrasilAudio]

Also Teen Titans GO!

[@boobah5643]

Tell a good Robin story and nobody will care about the hokey silver age stories.

[@esecallum]

he stuck out klike a sore thumb...the actor

[@CharlieD.706]

I think the animated films got robin right. Not so much the animated series though. I also feel like Robin in the Schumacher films was pretty close to accurate, even though the films aren’t great.

[@TimothyMorigeau]

I agree with this. We’ve already seen gritty realistic Batman. I don’t understand why that makes it better? It limits what you can do in the long run because a lot of Batman’s enemies are totally unrealistic.

[@aic8801]

Facts they can’t use villains like killer croc and poison ivy because they’re unrealistic.

[@doger6531]

Exactly this is what I’ve been saying to people who always use the excuse batman is realistic that’s why he’s so good how can he be realistic when his enemy’s aren’t

[@youtubeistryingtocensorme]

@@doger6531 He’s good at everything humanly possible and he knows everything, and he has all the money in the world. How is that in any way realistic. The guy is the living breathing definition of a mary sue, or a gary stu

[@matija1549]

Joker, Two Face, Penguin, and Riddler are realistic

[@doger6531]

@@youtubeistryingtocensorme at least he trained for his power rey from Star Wars is the perfect example of a Mary Sue she got everything without training in the slightest

[@From_Here_To_Here]

What’s funny to me is when the studios say they’re making a realistic Batman again the fans always get amnesia like this is the first “realistic” take on the character ☠️

[@igit_7296]

There is no such thing as a realistic take on Batman - the premise is ridiculous. All you have is versions with differing degrees of humor. None are actually realistic.

[@UnleashthePhury]

@@igit_7296 “realistic” Batman - every criminal case Batman ever gets involved with is thrown out of court because of his interference.

[@igit_7296]

@@UnleashthePhury realistic Batman is where your butler Alfred taught you how to be an expert at hand to hand combat. Goofy movie. Chris Nolan’s version was miles better than this slog of a movie.

[@adam346]

It's Film-Noir Batman. I don't think there are enough people that kind of get that so saying it is a bit pointless and instead go with "realistic"

[@sammypercy388]

@@adam346 no dude, film-noir is way more interesting than "the batman". They made a very boring movie, and an even more boring "film-noir" movie. The Animated series did film-noir properly: it didnt suffer from the plainness of this movie.

[@archangel1of7]

The Arkham game series does a pretty good job of melding the two takes imo

[@kinga.t.242]

well its game off course it will be unrealistic

[@RichO1701e]

It actually reminded me of the games. Visually at the very least.

[@AcademicType616]

Where I think a lot of people get wrong when making “realistic” batman stories is that they miss that the world of Batman is steeped in Gothic Fantasy, not edgy realism. The Tim Burton films lean into this a bit, but not enough, and the Schumacher films squander it. It’s a missed opportunity that has never been forfilled.

[@apex2000]

Good point. Batman is part of and created from an abnormal city. Otherwise in real life more orphans would be batman.

[@adam346]

to me it reads like Batman as Film-Noir... and I kind of love it for it.

[@ManiacMayhem7256]

What's a series or movie that gets it the closest? The 2004 series? Beyond? Animated series?

[@okdude8215]

True I found those movies entertaining just cause of the style they had. 😊

[@DeAngryDan]

Iv always said Tim Burton but a tiny bit more fantasy, enough for a proper clay face because if we get a clay face in the New movie's he will just be a Man with scars and a bit of makeup.. they are holding themselves back

[@frankchavez519]

I think what most people forget about The Dark Knight Returns is that the story isn't just dark and gritty but also deliberately over-the-top and operatic. For instance, the image of Batman and Robin riding into Gotham on HORSES after the EMP has taken out the city's power is as absurd as anything Adam West and Burt Ward did in 'the 66 Batman series. And as youtuber Patrick WIllems pointed out in his own video essay on Batman, without Robin, Batman has no opportunity for growth as a character, he remains a brooding weirdo dressed up as a bat to fight crime out of some overdeveloped need for vengeance. With Robin and the other members of the Bat family, he grows past a simple need for vengeance and becomes a mentor guiding the next generation of costumed heroes so that they're more than just brooding walking tragedies. To paraphrase Patrick WIllems, because of Batman's mentoring, Dick Grayson as Nightwing is essentially a better adjusted Batman.

[@SeasideDetective2]

That's something I've noticed too. Frank Miller's work is not just dark, but also grotesque; you can definitely see the seeds of Tim Burton's freak-show version of Gotham City sown throughout. Whether it's the cyberpunk "Mutants," the bug-eyed guy on the street holding up a sign saying "WE ARE ALL DOOMED," or Batman disguising himself as an impossibly ugly old woman as he chases down a half-naked neo-Nazi girl, Miller manages to treat us to a setting that is unforgettably surreal without being goofy. Nothing like that had ever been seen in the Batman comics before; the elements had been either only slightly stylized or made so campy they became trite, without ever hitting that intriguing twilight zone between them. I even appreciate the cameo appearances by Ronald Reagan and (a fictionalized) David Letterman, even though those appearances now date the comic; they give the illusion that Gotham exists in our own world, but without ever sacrificing the fantasy elements.

[@n.b.l.5709]

there was more camp or original batman corny ish in that 60s show than just batman n robin ridin horses

[@tomcruisenukedmyaccount5388]

The DKnR is metal.

[@Ubernerd3000]

The “best” of Batman is when he is shown in his ‘Caped Crusader’ aspect...when he is just as much a symbol of Hope and Justice as Superman, but ‘darker’, not because he’s all grim and moody, but because he literally strikes fear into the hearts of criminals by being the toughest, smartest, most relentless guy in Gotham... he doesn’t have to be a jerk to everyone to be seen as a serious threat... to criminals...

[@Mister_Don888]

What Patrick Willems video are you quoting?

[@haroldfeld]

I think you are right that what made TAS so good was that Batman had heart and empathy as well as rage, and so did the villains. They also recognized the difference between funny and campy. Episodes like “Almost Got Him” show off Batman’s detective skills while slyly poking fun at some of the more outrageous aspects of his rogues gallery. It would be a refreshing change to see sympathetic villains Baby Doll or a Poison Ivy/Harley Quinn team up that still had the “buddy comedy” vibe of their team ups in TAS.

[@333yuichi]

Finally, someone who shares my gripe. I've had enough with the "grounded, realistic" Batman. They keep milking Batman's ip more than other DC heroes but they keep going to the more realistic, more, More.!!! I want to see a Batman from the comics, who do absurd things, with an over-the-top and bat-like Batmobile and ridiculous gadgets. Batman who can punch walls, kick someone flying to the other side of the rooms. He's a comic book character, a "superhero". Let's go crazy!!!!

[@iamedmund1374]

So true man😭

[@TimothyMorigeau]

Agreed. People want to see the stuff from the cartoons including the Justice League stuff.

[@iamedmund1374]

@The Batman crazy to say but you’re absolutely right. It’s like they’re scared to let Batman be Batman lol

[@bebophippie1781]

Dark knight was great. Quit trying to remake it.

[@kinga.t.242]

@The Batman the third movie in the matt reeves triolgy will be like this

[@Psycopathicus]

100% agreed. For me, when Batman stories are truly at their best is not just when everything's all dark and gritty and hopeless - it's when there's CONTRAST. That's the key - contrast between darkness and tragedy and realism on the one hand, and colorful, eccentric zaniness on the other. They should be fun, but with darkness and depth - and far too many fans decry the former and over-praise the latter.

[@bluebarrymore5442]

"realistic" batman would be lobbying the government more then fucking punching each petty criminals.

[@AlastorD]

The Funny thing is, mist of those comics that serve as inspiration for the more "realistic" are what you wished for. Sure Year one had a realistic touch when Batman showed up and Gotham was about Mobsters and corrupt cops. But in The long Halloween after Batman was established, the freaks took over and the style was more eerie and fantastic. The dark Knight returns had Mutants and Superman. And a Robin was a central part of that story.

[@OldManTheseDays]

For what it’s worth (and if anyone cares), I really lament that we never got a solo Batfleck movie. I thought he was great, and his moments in BvS were the standout cinematic Batman for me.

[@apex2000]

He was wasted. And clearly was disinterested by the mess of the batman films he was in.

[@bonnefetebaby8234]

Nah he really looked like a parody of Batman everytime he showed up he was goofy asl excluding that one scene where he swung a box at that guy

[@CronksNewBrothel]

Such 🧢, Batfleck is the 🐐 and y’all know this, stay mad that he has the best onscreen Batman fight scene in history 🎤 **drops**

[@benc.5558]

The heart of the Batman character and the Batman story is the story of a traumatized 8-year-old boy who nobody rescued from his trauma, so he made himself into someone who could rescue others. And the beauty of that simple story is that it can be done with any number of tones and trappings. It can be silly, it can be fun, it can be campy, it can be serious, it can be tragic, or it can be multiple of those at once. And a Batman who is forever alone misses another core part of the character: Batman is a person who lost his family and creates a new one, with Alfred as his father figure, sometimes Leslie thompkins or someone else as a symbolic mother, and with his sidekicks as symbolic children. I think a version of Batman without that is a version of Batman that only tells part of the story.

[@michaellewis1545]

I think this Batman would be great if they leaned into absurdity that is inherent to the Batman rogues gallery. For example the next movie with a series of crimes that seem humanly impossible but it turns out to be clayface. The humor can from a relatively normal human dealing with a monster. Also I do hope they keep Batman as a symbol of hope like he was becoming at the end of the movie. Since being the candle in the dark is much more interesting than I am vengeance and darkness.

[@kevingriffith6011]

If it weren't for potential issues with a certain marvel character, I'd 100% be for pairing Dr. Hugo Strange with Clayface. Clayface is potentially a very tragic character, and him being manipulated by Strange dangling a cure over his head like a carrot on a stick would be good motivation. Strange also offers something Clayface doesn't: an intellectual equal to batman. This gives us an opportunity in clayface for batman to have an opponent that the bat can't beat, instead that he has to win over with his humanity... essentially, by embracing the "Man". Admittedly, this would probably deny us the ever so popular third act punch-up, the big dramatic action sequence to end it all on, but I think it would be a better story... and clayface has been known to work with batman from time to time in the comics.

[@ternative]

@@kevingriffith6011 that would actually work really well as most poeple think batman is just some dark and serious guy when he has a heart.

[@CaptainPikeachu]

I think in films, the image of dark gritty Batman has been so entrenched that it’s harder for studios to get away from that image for fear of upsetting fans. The Gotham tv series always caught a lot of flack for being weird and whacky but to be honest, that’s the tone of what I like my Batman stories to be. It’s one of the reasons I love the Gotham show because it was whacky and goofy and could be serious in one moment and totally bonkers the next. That show never let itself be held back and thrived on being strange and weird. I wish more Batman stories would have that tone. And as for Robin, given Marvel is clearly gearing up for young Avengers and Spider Man has had multiple films portraying him as a high schooler, there’s really no reason to not be able to do Robin even in a realistic and grounded way. Not to mention having Robin allows Batman actual growth of character.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Trouble is, the live-action Gotham series had nowhere near the same level of intelligent script writing as the 90s animated series. The more ridiculous or fantastical elements of the 90s series worked because most of the writing was serious and thoughtful, with little bits of humour here and there. The live-action Gotham series was over-the-top or mean-spirited/"edgy" almost constantly, so it doesn't matter if it even adapts the more fantastical elements. And unlike the 90s animated series, the Gotham series was all about "hey, fans, spot the reference". Something the animated series didn't have to do, since it could actually rely on the stories being Batman-driven, rather than everything being centered on being a prequel. A desperate prequel at that, since they still couldn't resist focusing on the premature emergence of many future villains. There was a point to the animated series' storytelling, or the storytelling in Burton's or Nolan's live-action adaptations. I didn't really see any point to the storytelling in Gotham.

[@gamblertoguru382]

Gotham stinks,and was borderline campy imo. I think the Iron Man comparison was spot on,and i would say that should be the perfect middle ground. Just have Batman be as obsessed about criminals as Tony was about technology. And you see how Tony was tortured but didn't feel the need to wear it on his sleeve? Please bring that back,as I think that makes for a better Bruce.The new Batman feels the need to beat us over the head with the fact he is tormented. A Batman who hides it,but lets it slip through his actions is a more tragic portrayl imo.

[@Axel-ye8tt]

No one cares about the tone the gritty Batman are just higher quality products the whack Gotham show was ass

[@Christian_Maoist.]

I will say, I think the best batman stories are the more "gritty" ones, like Redhood and Year one, and I wouldn't want that element to go away. (I still think Christopher Nolan's Batman is the best movie-wise)But I like how the 90's Batman TAS managed to keep that dark element, while also being fun and even a little bit campy or silly at times while still keeping it's mature tone. I think something more like that would be great.

[@riverAmazonNZ]

Batman TAS is the pinnacle of Batman in my opinion. I respect that guy.

[@albertokorogu1258]

The day we get an adaptation of Dark Nights Metal or any of Scott Snyder's work will be the day I can finally collapse and die as a DC movie fanboy.

[@albertokorogu1258]

His run on Batman IMO is the best Batman run of all time. I think "best" storylines are subjective and I'm kind of biased in this case since Scott Snyder's Batman books are literally what got me into comic books again. Without Dark Nights Metal and Death Metal being so good, I would not be reading modern day comics just because most of them cater towards shock value and changing things just to change things.

[@garethmaddieson8251]

Was disappointed that we didn't get to see more of the DCEU Batman was looking forward to seeing a live action Batman interacting with the more fantastical elements of the DC universe. Would have definitely bought something new to movie version of the character. Also Batman The Animated Series is awesome quite possibly my favourite version (that or Keaton but it's close)

[@albertokorogu1258]

I think its possible we get that with Matt Reeves Batman in the future. Because if you ask me I don't think Matt is dumb enough to just simply follow what came before and re-tread the old trilogy. If you want to get people invested in Battinson and this new universe you need to do something way different from like TDK trilogy.

[@PhiberOptik23]

I’m actually quite happy the removed references to the DCEU in The Batman. It would have weighed it down with all the references.

[@albertokorogu1258]

​@@PhiberOptik23 You mean the fact they made it an entirely different movie? Yeah if you asked me 5 years ago if I was hyped about The Batman in the current DCEU at that time I would have said that I genuinely don't know. The DCEU hasn't really gotten good until recently with movies like The Suicide Squad and The Snyder Cut coming out. Like yeah they've had some hits like Wonder Woman, Shazam, and Aquaman but those movies were mostly just to pass the time. I've never had the craving to just go back and watch Aquaman or Wonder Woman it's usually just when I'm in the mood.

[@AllThingsKen]

@@albertokorogu1258 but he just did

[@albertokorogu1258]

@@AllThingsKen Wdym

[@GR20000]

“Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - CS Leiws

[@mpjedi212]

"Realistic Batman" is overdone, and your analysis of the early comics that Bill Finger created with Bob Kane taking all the credit, is correct. They were for children, but it was a time when children's media was much more diverse in tone and less policed by adults trying to control what kids were reading. It's dark, like The Shadow pulps were dark. But silly is OK, too. I love watching the 60s show, and it was evocative of the Batman of the time. The 50s were a time of being desperate to NOT be controversial, in any way, after Doctor Wertham, the Kefauver juvenile delinquency hearings, and the comics code. I also think a new version of Robin would be incredibly welcome. Now...I also think the "My favorite Batman is the Kevin Conroy/Bruce Timm/Paul Dini animated version" is about as cliché at this point as the grimdark thing. I say that as a MASSIVE fan of that show, too, but it's legacy is just as stultifying as the "realistic" thing. As for THE BATMAN - I think it was "realistic," while still feeling "comic book-esque." My best comparison would be the 70's comics the O'Neal/Adams or Englehart/Rogers stuff. It felt dark, Batman felt scary, while still embracing a silliness. The "mystery" was fine, and good to have, while not really being all that great...like a lot of those 70s comics. Batman walking around crime scenes freely was ridiculous, yet the film sold it. The Penguin was dangerous, but also laughable. Etc. Etc.

[@empatheticrambo4890]

I couldn’t agree more in terms of it feels comic and surreal, yet grounded. I loved it for that (though I’d argue riddler was the least camp, which I think is a missed opportunity compared to his roots)

[@SeasideDetective2]

@@empatheticrambo4890 Matt Reeves has seemed to have missed the point of the Riddler entirely. Edward Nygma is a nerd, yes, but he's far from the derogatory incarnation of that stereotype we've seen in popular media in recent decades (the "incel," the school shooter, etc.). Traditionally nerds have been either heroes or comic relief, not villains; and while the Riddler IS a villain, I've always thought of him as playful rather than misanthropic and vicious. Nygma is supposed to be fueled by his brilliance and by a desire to match wits with others; he's not just another thug. So, yes, put him in a shamrock-green business suit and a matching derby, because that's how a sophisticated, elitist intellectual who was a little crazy would dress in real life. I don't want to see some sort of paramilitary S&M fetishist.

[@SeasideDetective2]

I really like the way you put things. Throughout my life so far, I've noted time and again that things that seem on the surface to be completely absurd actually contain a great deal of depth. I've heard even fans of the character complain that Batman looks ridiculous because "all he ever seems to do is fight clowns." People still make fun of the Joker and Harley Quinn and long for characters like Ra's al-Ghul and Bane to be Batman's foes more regularly. Such people are obviously not aware that the clown is, in fact, one of the most mysterious and potent archetypes in all of human folklore; and that when the Joker imagines himself as supernatural or even a god, he's standing on a very firm Jungian foundation. Clowns represent chaos - the force that created the very universe itself, if you believe the ancient mythology. Harley, too, is someone I believe deserves to be taken more seriously. Too often she gets dismissed as either an update of the blonde, ditzy, Prohibition-era gun moll from black-and-white movies or some kind of giggly Millennial hipster girl in punk fashions and weird makeup. Well, that's what you see if you only look at the surface, which after all is there mostly for humor and sex appeal. If you look INSIDE Harley, you see one of the most tragic figures in fiction. In fact, if I were to compare Harley to any other figure in our centuries-long legacy of Western fiction, it would be Francesca, the adulteress in Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy." It's a bit of a stretch, since Harley is not a sexual sinner but a violent criminal, but I argue that both characters have brought the same fate upon themselves, having caused themselves to be condemned (Francesca being literally in Hell, while Harley is stuck in an earthly version of it) by succumbing to their - to quote Harley creator Paul Dini - "mad love" (or "gentle heart," as Dante puts it). Both Harley and Francesca insist they are innocent because they have good intentions, believing that if you're full of (what you consider) love, you can't possibly be evil. Harley Quinn strikes me as a reminder that the "innocent" psychopaths tend to be the most dangerous, and this is precisely because, by definition, they lack any self-awareness to even try to stop what they are doing. So yes, I have no problem with Batman fighting clowns. I insist that all but the most hackneyed members of Batman's rogues gallery have their place. I even defend the Red Triangle Circus Gang from BATMAN RETURNS, arguing that the movie subtly hints at their tragic past and includes them in the narrative in order to emphasize the theme of lost childhood that has run throughout both the Batman comics and the films of Tim Burton from the very beginning.

[@empatheticrambo4890]

@@SeasideDetective2 Honestly, I do agree with you. I thought it was an interesting and fairly humanized take on the villain / internet extremist type character, but I don't particularly want that to be the Riddler. I'm very glad they did such a good job with clues and mystery, because otherwise it wouldn't have felt like the Riddler in any way

[@geekarchivistpearce828]

@@empatheticrambo4890 Definitely needed work, plus the design was flipping garbage. The writing also drags it down with the modern narcissist BS

[@TheCrazyPlayer]

Empathy. What makes Animated Series Batman great is his empathy. He watches the video of Victor Fries being turned into Mr. Freeze and he’s horrified one human being could do that to another. He even gets *why* Freeze is doing what he’s doing, but Batman can’t let Freeze hurt innocent people in the name of revenge (and not just to protect the innocent; he knows becoming a murderer will be bad for Fries). That’s one of the things Nolan Batman gets right, and what Snyder missed about Batman. Batman may not always express it in a healthy way, but he *cares* about people being hurt (even his villains).

[@doger6531]

This this and more this

[@IcyDiamond]

And then we’ll get to see more of Batman’s empathy in the second The Batman movie

[@Tymbus]

I disagree, I think the movie recalled the Sixties TV series in a number of scenes. The sight of an ultra serious Batman solving clues while standing among police offers was quite absurd. Adam West also played Batman straight, with dead seriousness if ultimately comical effect. The scene with Batman is hanging off a cable in the new movie seemed a nod to the infamous shark scene in the Sixties movie. But...bring back Bat-Mite!

[@philiphunn194]

Not to mention the raised nose-guard on Battinson’s cowl was a very deliberate homage to West’s cowl.

[@frankchavez519]

Oh, and for pity's sake, if The Batman gets a sequel, can we have a villain other than the umpteenth take on the Joker? I know he was teased in the movie and the deleted scene that was released is admittedly nice and creepy but Batman does have an extensive rogues gallery with characters that are at least as interesting as Joker, if not more so. I think the animated series's take on Mr. Freeze was actually a fairly realistic and tragic version that would make a nice template for a live action version that escapes the campiness of Arnold Schwartzenegger's lame puns while still bringing some elements of the fantastical to a future movie.

[@NoName-oo2td]

If past superhero hero movie franchises taught us anything is that they're going to bring in the arch nemesis at some point. And Joker is Batman's arch nemesis. Heck all three live action Spider-Men have fought the Green Goblin (arch nemesis) in their respective franchises.

[@youtubeistryingtocensorme]

Yes please god. No more Joker. I’m so sick and tired of seeing the Joker.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Honestly, I think Reeves will restrict him to a background character.

[@The_Cold_Slither]

I don’t like talking about Batman because I start making fun of people. But they like him because it’s easy to do dark and moody stuff. And you can do that but also have fun. I would love to see a Batman horror movie, with Clayface, Solomon Grundy or Man-Bat. Or a sci-fi tale with Mr. Freeze.

[@alderfek]

I would say go for the B:TAS vibe with the new actor. Like you said, he needs his rogue's gallery. Then you can do the older Afleck-man version in the justice league setting. A few flash-backs to The Batman character would tie the two together and allow them both to move forward. And I really think that Christian Bale would make for a great older Batman now.

[@mhoppy6639]

The quality of writing in these essays is really very good indeed. I feel that the subject matter can distract one from the very obvious inference I’ve gradually drawn, that Rowan can really write. It’s fantastic stuff and deserving of a much wider audience. Thank you.

[@thefonzkiss]

3:13 not correct. There were literally a handful of comic adaptations for the 66 series and that’s it. Very few, and it’s well known which ones were adaptations. Trivia : Mr Freeze was called Mr Zero in the comics. Batman 66 renamed him.

[@SuperTim616]

I’ve been wanting a Bat-Family movie for the last ten years. I think a really good story could be told about that dynamic between Batman and his protégés. Thank you for adequately explaining why I didn’t love The Batman. I left the theater just empty. Technical aspects were good but the story left a hole. This is why, thank you

[@JulieYBM]

Funny, I felt like this was much closer to Adventure Batman than the boring and dry Nolan Batman. The depiction of Bruce as an emo virgin pretty boy is so fantastical. I love it. I can definitely see this version going campier.

[@edibleapeman]

Yeah. Before I clicked on this video, the title of it had me thinking Rowan would be singing The Batman's praises for how unrealistic Pattinson's/Reeves' take on the Caped Crusader is.

[@javierlopez9789]

Imagine calling nolan bruce dry when you have pattinson acting like an angsty 14 year old.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

I can understant your point but I can see why creators always go with the dark brooding tone on Batman movies. Being a character with a long history in comics, with many types pf stories, some campy others dark, the movie creators have to choose which one will be the tone for the film and it's franchise. In the case of Batman, most of his best stories are dark noir detective drama, so creators try to adapt this type of stories and figure out to make some comic book elements to fit with the tone. Even Batman TAS went through, with creators having to make some changes, like having Robin already a teenager rather than a kid. In the case of Reeves Batman I think he has better balance between the realism of Nolan and the gothic style of Burton movies and I can see Batman dealing with more weird villains in the sequels without feeling inconsistent with the franchise's tone.

[@jdnelms62]

Robin does very well in animation, especially on the various incarnations of the Teen Titans. Christian Bale's dark gritty Batman movies were already done before DC and Warner Brothers decided to create a larger universe similar to that of the Marvel franchise. Ben Affleck's Batman should have been in several movies as part of the larger DC universe, and probably would have spun off other Batman related characters. But Justice League's problems are already historical now. I doubt the new Batman will fit in the current DC universe.

[@Connection500]

I couldn't agree more with what you say. The once refreshing take on the character is decades old now. And I have to add - I wasn't that excited about the "realistic" approach in the first place (whilst I really didn't like the late 90s Batman either).

[@sup3414]

If fantastical shit doesn't happen in the next film I'm fucking done with this world and Matt Reeves. Period.

[@TheGreatGonzales777]

I think “The Batman” animated series from the 2000’s properly paces tone that makes you ready for the Bat Family after two seasons.

[@jesuspantoja7699]

I fear we'll never get a proper comic book adaptation that would tow more in line with the old animated series. Bring out Clayface for a movie!

[@AdamDraconaQuest]

The thing I really want is more of the Rogue's Gallery. I liked being able to see the Riddler and Penguin in The Batman, but can I just say how tired I am of seeing the Joker? I'd love to see Poison Ivy, Mr Freeze, or Clay Face get a proper live action appearance in a good film. But with the Joker, how many times have we seen him since The Dark Knight? We keep getting interpretations, and I'm honestly just tired of seeing him. I want other villains to get a shot in the spotlight.

[@michaelwhitehead6594]

Plus The Wizard, The Mad Hatter, King Tut, would be awesome to see these as modern updates too! Like you, getting tired of modern batman keep doing the Joker, Riddler cat woman and penguin all the time.

[@doger6531]

Yes finally someone else says joker is overused like that clown has been used 2 times in a row in two big Batman live action movie franchises it’s time to give someone else a spotlight

[@zachmayo7194]

I completely agree with you. The obsession with realistic Batman gets on my nerves, it’s why Keaton is my personal favorite. Having said that I like Robert Pattinson’s Batman a lot, I personally take more issue with the Bale movies, I like the way Pattinson’s movie does the whole “grounded” thing way more. I also appreciate that they utilized the Mafia families, as they get sidelined all the time, which is silly, especially because they are easily the most realistic Batman villains. The sequel for “The Batman” is gonna have Robin, which makes me hopeful.

[@Theleaver5088]

You have a point. However, I think Matt Reeves can put the fantastical elements of the batman mythos, just like you point out with characters like Iron Man, but he has to put it well and gradually so that it wouldn't end up like Batman and Robin

[@SeeHere2]

Another great video, thanks Rowan. Myself of all the batman films I've seen to date, and that isn't all of them, Batman (1989) is the one I enjoyed the most. Something I'd like to see live action is Batman of the Future. The realism comes from the characters and depth and the sci fi fantasy of the near future.

[@sebastianfitzptraick7395]

I completely agree, Nolan’s take on Batman has grown extremely stale over time and I’m sick of film makers copying him ad nauseam. The Anthology, Animated Series, BVS and Arkham Games balance all of the elements perfectly in my view, stylish yet narratively strong, fantastical yet enjoyable. Though I really love Batman Begins, Nolan’s films slowly grew more generic with each film.

[@friggyk]

*agreed, the Nolan era of Batman is over, let’s see something fresh* #MakeTheBatfleck *and no I’m not a snyder cultist*

[@rupertsmith5815]

Never gonna happen

[@goransekulic3671]

You can be dark and fun and believable without veering off into the /wrist territory. Basically, don't grimdark, just for the love of everything, DON'T! Not many people can pull it off. And that's exactly what Batman should be. Fun "dark fantasy" hero. Nolan pulled it off, but those movies were different, they were more akin to 24(Bourne? You get the idea) than to a true superhero movie. Robin's design is silly, but I love the character. Batman really needed him.

[@SeasideDetective2]

Well, first of all, it's ironic to hear the words "Gothic" and "fun" in the same sentence without a "but." Gothic literature includes Edgar Allan Poe and Lord Byron - two authors who, with a few exceptions (such as "The Gold Bug" and "Don Juan," respectively), are NOT "fun" to read. But yes, I understand that in our more poppy and lighthearted 20th and 21st centuries, "Gothic" is more about Halloween and monster movies than angst and alienation (even though those two realms can certainly be combined, as in Dante's "Inferno"). What we once called "Gothic" we now call "existentialist," which sounds a lot more boring and indeed seems to describe the post-2000 Batman films fairly well. But, yes, you're right. What has always drawn readers and viewers to Batman comics and media is their "chiaroscuro" - the mixture of dark and light. I will always think that Tim Burton's 1989 film achieved the perfect balance of realism and escapism for a PG-13 picture. In fact, when he was interviewed about his character, Jack Nicholson remarked that he knew millions of children would ask their parents to take them to see the film, and he had wanted to make the Joker menacing, but at the same time not so terrifying that kids wouldn't be able to laugh at him. That's a point that too often is forgotten: even the most vicious villain needs a lighthearted element in order to appeal to the audience. Even better, I think, was the 1990s animated series, which is still one of the greatest cartoons ever. That version of Batman could make me laugh, make me cry, AND terrify me, which was good; the best entertainment engages multiple human emotions. In fact, that series remains such a gold standard that it baffles me why neither Christopher Nolan nor Matt Reeves have been willing to draw more than a handful of elements from it. There still exists a reluctance, for example, to put Harley Quinn in a movie unless she's supposed to be the focus of it, and then the movie has to become a comedy. I think it's been proven time and again in other media that Quinn can be just as emotionally complex a character - if not more so - than the Joker. As I've suggested in the above paragraphs, the villains are key. The beauty of characters like the Joker, the Mad Hatter, the Ventriloquist, and Poison Ivy is that they're so outlandish that you can't make them "realistic" without distorting them beyond recognition. Who wants to see a Hatter who literally suffers from mercury poisoning, or a Ventriloquist who uses a tape recorder rather than a wooden doll to express his alter ego? I'm fine with these villains being irredeemably evil and slaughtering human beings by the hundreds, but there's no reason they can't be funny and imaginative too. I'd rather have them than Ra's al-Ghul; despite being a compelling villain in his own right, he can all too easily be reduced to just another terrorist.

[@michaelwhitehead6594]

The first Batman on screen was NOT 1960.s. It was 1943 With Lewis Wilson as the first Batman. NOT 1960's Adam West.

[@Jared_Wignall]

Makes sense as to why Christopher Nolan went a more realistic route as people would have said he’s copying Tim Burton if it looked and felt like Burton’s films in anyway and if it looked and felt like Joel Schumacher’s films people wouldn’t have been happy due to those not being enjoyed as much. But even then, Nolan didn’t make it completely 100% realistic, there’s still suspension of disbelief and some stuff obviously probably wouldn’t happen in real life when you look at those film. I don’t mind the realistic version of Batman, but if one is going to make a Batman film or show with a realistic tone, make sure there’s some sort of lightness to it. In The Dark Knight Trilogy, Bruce’s interactions with Alfred and Fox are pretty humorous a good amount of the time. It balances out the darkness with some humor that fits the tone and doesn’t pull you out of the film. The Batman is a good film, a fine film, but there wasn’t much humor that sort of gave the film a bit of a light moment here or there. Hopefully, we’ll see some moments that are light enough that it balances out and fits the dark tone of the next film.

[@Nostripe361]

I’ve always been a fan of variety. Is wrong to want multiple Batman series. With a dark and gritty one, a fun romp with a semi serious Batman, and crazy Lego Batman like series.

[@infinitemonkey27]

That clip from Amanda Waller in JLU is one I think of often as something that people seem to overlook about Batman

[@chrisheimva4857]

I always find it funny how sections of the Batman fandom will call the very early version of character (ie. the incarnation that killed people and didn't have a Robin) the "true Batman" without realizing that this "true Batman" was a rip-off of The Shadow.

[@aaronlessard4754]

Just watched it. Was looking forward to this, and it’s simply a snooze. Drawn out dialogue, ridiculous runtime that isn’t justified by a slow pace story, and an abandonment from necessary character development (batman is on screen for almost the entire film). I’m not saying we need the same old song and dance for an origin story, but Batman’s in a fist fight within 5 minutes of the film. I felt like I was thrown in the middle of the film, and we never really returned to the beginning. The film wanted to be “real”, but then felt almost like a comic or video game. I just found this to be conflicting at times. I think diving into a heavier detective angle for the film was a fascinating take, and something fans have been hungry for.. unfortunately for me, it falls flat and I lost interest numerous times throughout…

[@kinga.t.242]

i dont know why you saw the movie as slow i never felt that and i watched it in the cinema

[@kcthesledgestoryteller]

Count me among those who loved “The Batman”, and realism wasn’t my main hope. I primarily go for how well the “scrap” gets handled, and I’m OK if Batman takes his lumps, since that is an aspect of reality that I can appreciate. I can go for some sci-fi villains to the degree of Man-Bat, since that can loosely be based on science. ClayFace? PLEASE, NO!! In that realm it’s inescapable for me to watch that not think about how one’s inner workings can be maintained amid all that, and also that with those abilities, it feels like ClayFace holds back from growing more pointed offshoots than Batman can defend against. I’m not utterly hinged on realism. I just wish to avoid aspects that push my suspension of disbelief too far.

[@AS-mm3wi]

Just got HBO Max and this was on it. I only made it 40 minutes and got so bored I turned it off. To each their own but this was dull and lifeless to me.

[@fgdj2000]

I actually loved The Batman precisely for making it a point that being „Vengeance“ isn’t enough for being Batman. In the beginning he even scares the victim he is saving, later he realizes that the vengeance mentality (of just punishing criminals) doesn’t make him any different from someone like the Riddler and so in the end he is all about saving people and represents hope for them and a boy he saved isn’t scared of him. Indeed I feel Matt Reeves (and writer(s)) „get“ the character like no other filmmaker before (even Nolan) and so I am hopeful that sequels will focus more on Batman expanding his roster to include Robin and a whole Bat-Family. Hell, even in The Batman he already has Cateoman and Gordon as allies. The Dark Knight Trilogy took three films to get there 😂

[@anthonygarcia8749]

He shouldn't have to learn vengeance isn't the answer in his second year of being Batman lmao.

[@fgdj2000]

@@anthonygarcia8749 That's not the point. The point is, Batman is no anti-hero. He starts out as one (even in the original 1939 comics), but he becomes a true hero and that's his appeal... 85 years and counting.

[@fgdj2000]

That and the fact that you can create almost any version of him and he still works. Adam West and Joel Schumacher's campy and silly take on Batman works just as well as a more serious and realistic take on him a la Christopher Nolan or Matt Reeves and anything in between, Tim Burton, Frank Miller, Paul Dini, Chuck Dixon, Carmine infantino, Kelley Jones, they all work as what they are and the character still feels true. A dark Superman for instance just doesn't work. Even Zack Snyder's Batman is still Batman (I don't like this version very much), but Zack Snyder's Superman just isn't Superman.

[@inspectorwhoreacts]

Won't lie i am a bit tired of normal batman movies, how about we do batman beyond now, give me that sci-fi future Gotham.

[@evanthecinemaguy9902]

THANK YOU!!! I loved The Batman, and I feel the "realistic" take worked this time. Unlike Nolan's movies, this doesn't change stuff for the sake of realism. It focuses on the more down to earth elements like a detective driven plot or having his more realistic villains, so it respected the character in that regard. However, I don't want this to be the bar for the entire franchise this movie's setting up. If you're setting up a world of Batman characters, embrace all the elements!! Look at Batman:The Animated Series, some episodes are about Batman stopping some gangsters, while in others he fights a guy with a freeze gun and an actor who's a giant hunk of clay. It doesn't have to be "artsy and complex" to be taken seriously, just have strong writing and a story that thrills audiences. I hope Matt Reeves has considered this, after all, he directed movies where humans and monkeys battle each other

[@rej3ktstudios986]

Put Batman in space and have him fight dinosaurs WB you cowards!

[@Biohazard219]

The gripe I have with this movie is there's "hypreal" aspect of the movie for example, the black make up under the cowl, but then you get a scene where a bomb blows up in his face & he's totally fine. I'd like to see Batman movies take more notes from the Arkham series with more fantastical & supernatural elements to really challenge Batman

[@andrewwebb7584]

Remember a few years ago when parkour seemed to be in every other movie? Seems bizarre that Robin didn't feature in any movie around then considering "gymnast who fights on the street" seems like an almost tailor made concept to take advantage of that craze!

[@TristanDonaldson]

Before 2005, a grounded Batman had only been done a handful of times in the comics. Now, it's ironically become the standard due to the success of "Batman Begins", but mainly "The Dark Knight". This of course, ignores all other facets of what the character can be. I hope that mainstream audiences will accept different takes on the character.

[@patrickbb9470]

I feel the way about Batman the way I feel about James Bond. If you go to grounded it's not fun. But if you go to fantastical, I can't feel any stakes. Honestly it's a hard balance to strike but I've seen it done. (Although I do love a full silly Batman when done right)

[@EnPriBri]

Tbh I feel like The Batman is a gritty hardass becoming a hopeful heroic figure

[@gamer10153]

Honestly growing up I loved Batman and Robin and Batman Forever they were out of this world and very fastisical. The imagery was diffirent and unique. I originally hated Christopher Nolan take on Batman being so releastic and dark. But as I grew up I appreciated the movies much more. Nevertheless, a new fresh take on Batman that distances itself a bit more from dark and dreary take would be great to see on screen!

[@Axonteer]

Im not really into the hyperbole superhero films that are what currently gets shat out into the cinemas. Especially all the marvel MCU... the original "origin" films where really good but after that all got watered down. Hence i really hope they dont make batman that way too, with 50 sidekicks that all need 5 minutes of screentime thus the whole movie becomes a screentime focus solo switcharoo... All i want is a slow paced gritty authentic Hero movie.... we have nothing like this anymore (notice the absence of "Super?")

[@RememberTheChase]

Always such a great take, you've convinced me.

[@zzeegermantube]

I'm really suprised by this review. I was mostly blown away by it. Not as great as Bale's, but in close second. Of course it depends in part with what expectations one goes in. Yes, it was gritty, but different enough from Nolan's & Bale's interpretation. The true litmus test will be how it fairs on second and third viewing. I suspect, that in parts it will strech and feel slow. As for the rest. I would agree that calling Robin the Jarjar Binks of Batman is way harsh. But then Jarjar didn't irritate me. :-D A more funner version of Batman without going camp is indeed possible. I mean see the new Spiderman movies or the Marvel movies. My suggestion for a more fun Batman entry would be the Batman/TMNT crossover! The comics are great and the animated movie isn't bad either. I mean even a more serious interpretation would be fun. I also fully agree regarding bringing in all the other Bats, women, girls etc.

[@PinBBro]

i like how people including wb themselves keep telling themselves that forever and batman and robin were bad because they were campy and thus made every following live action batman hyper realistic and grounded when the reason those two shumacher films sucked was the awful writing and the crazy stuff was actually some of those films only redeeming qualities lol

[@PinBBro]

imo batman's world should be as darkly whimsical, over the top and fairy-tale-esque as possible. What SHOULD be realistic with batman is the character writing. ppl need to realize that you can make your world as fun and bonkers as possible, all you need to really do is focus on just making the characters endearing and believable.

[@apex2000]

Batman TAS straddles the line between grounded and fantastical.

[@mikeshadez]

The batman film is a generic garbage film it has put me off, this film made the character useless if he wasn't in the film nothing would change because the director doesn't get the concept of good guy stopping the badguys evil plans and saves people then catching the badguy, it wasn't accurate to Batman what so ever! this film Is so stupid and idiots online call it a masterpiece when it's trash.

[@waynetech10]

AMEN. I am tired of "realistic" Batman. If I wanted a crime drama, I have no shortage of Law & Order, Adam-12, Dragnet, In the Heat of the Night, so many shows I can watch. Even Affleck, himself, has directed and starred in a few gritty, realistic movies. Batman is friends with an alien. He's carried on a flirtation with a mystical woman, born of clay and blessed by the Greek gods. I would love to see a Batman, on the big screen, fighting a towering Man-Bat, or Clayface, a Bane who is not only jacked up on venom, but also cerebral and skilled. Batman has led the JLA into battle against aliens, builds the most fantastic weapons, while still being a suave and benevolent boss of a multi billion dollar company. Realism went out of the window, from the word go. I'm not saying he has to be the 1950s Batman, but be open to the fantastic elements.

[@DanielRamos-tq7cz]

They need to take a chance and do movie saga with robin, second movie his death and third movie have red hood First movie going against mayb killer croc as a new enemy in the movies area, second movie obviously joker since robin dies and third movie with red hood, killing somone close to batman

[@ΠαναγιωτηςΑγγελ]

I love batman since i was a kid him and Spiderman where my favourite superheroes my favourite aspects of batman are the supernatural elements on him white eyes and a cape that cover his body and he is like a shadow the two coolest things about what makes batman that many believe that wouldn't work in live action because batman has to be realistic absolutely ridiculous just let batman be batman for once and this comes from a marvel fan who saw the batman and things it's one of the best dc movies and Robert's performance one of the best still the depiction of batman didn't made him justice for one more time

[@camerongrow6426]

I definitely want to see more Bat-Family content. It's the best part of the franchise

[@djoneforever]

I totally agreed, especially Christopher Nolan's Batman. I want a Superhero Batman, not a guy who dress up like a bat and fights crimes

[@rupertsmith5815]

That is literally what Batman is a guy that dresses up in a bat suit and fights crime Do you even know who Batman is ?

[@senonimoustv2497]

Batman while being relatable in a human sense, is mot meant to be realistic. There's nothing realistic about Batman in the first place. Dude has access to a whole gadgetry and batcave which somehow he built all himself. He knows over 100 martial arts despite only training for a little over a decade before becoming batman officially. Batman was made to be fantastical and dark and gritty. Only in cartoons and comics can you get that mix. There's no way live action films can pull off him fighting people like Clayface and Poison Ivy or a Joker that is actually a clown instead of a terrorist wearing clown make up.

[@Shindai]

Batman and Robin has a bad rep but I miss Batman being that entertaining. I'm all for an immersive, compelling movie, but I wanna go back to fun movies, I'm so burnt out on gritty and broody Batman. What would be amazing is to tell a canon Batman story from the comics, but make it one of the ones where the dynamic duo are taken by aliens to play the alien olympics or some absolutely wild shit that would really piss off the people who take it too seriously because they couldn't say it's not canon xD Or give one of the animated crossovers a live action treatment for the fun of it, we could get another TMNT movie out of it the same time :D

[@BrySquatch]

Exactly how I felt walking out of that movie. Did they have to make it even MORE realistic and dark? Where all his rogues gallery are just going to be serial killers and deformed people? I’m really hoping James Gunn gives us a proper contrast to all this “grittiness” and delivers a more balanced and fun Batman. And as you said, key word “fantastical”.

[@KaiCrafted]

Patrick Willems had a great breakdown/defense for Robin recently, I'd love to see another Robin on the big screen! Even though I really like The Batman it's not necessarily because I think this is the 'right' batman, it just fits my personal taste in films, and I suspect that The Dark Knight is the most popular batman film not because it's the 'best' version of batman but because it's one of Chris Nolan's best films. The real issue I see with modern interpretations of batman is that they're so constrained by the studio system. Batman Begins was made because Batman and Robin failed so hard, so they went in the opposite direction (and it worked!), Justice League and The Batman get to continue in that direction because it worked before, i.e. it's a safe bet for the studio because that kind of take hasn't failed (yet). Don't forget that Batman Forever and B&R were both responses to the merchandising problem caused by Returns' very mature themes and visuals. These films are all responses to whatever came before rather than attempts uniquely for the sake of exploring the character. I'd personally like to see less constraints on the character and the "universe" and just make several different batman films at once (or over a course of a few years or whatever) that don't HAVE to have anything to do with each other. Give us a campy batman and a serious batman and a bat-family. After the success of No Way Home I don't think anyone can argue that audiences can't handle the idea of multiple versions of the same character.

[@Neil070]

I agree with your premise, I'm fed up with "gritty" Batman, but it's worth remembering that he WAS originally a far darker character. In 1939, he carried a gun. He killed his enemies more than once, including one falling into a vat of acid. The Joker died at the end of his first appearance, only reader reaction brought him back. Robin was intended to lighten the tone, and provide the sidekick that Captain America had with Bucky. Kid heroes were popular in that period, such as Kirby and Simon's Newsboy Legion. It was the Comics Code that led to the "campy" Silver Age Batman of course

[@ChristophersRants]

I have no interest in a "Realistic" Batman at all I enjoy the older comic books, I love the old TV series to the tone and dark deco of Batman the animated series give me that batman that tone I don't care about gritty or real or even superficially dark.

[@joelkirkwood8224]

Batman was originally a vicious character that murdered his enemies. Robin was added to try and lighten the tone. I like the character but he doesn’t really jive with Batman.

[@philiphunn194]

Pre-Comics Code Batman was a maniac. So was Superman - he’d drop people off buildings without a second thought.

[@snorpenbass4196]

I'll put it like this: _none_ of the Batman movies are my favorites. I grew up with 70's-80's pre-Miller Batman, which was actually plenty grim and gritty, just more colorfully drawn (not always - the late 70's-early 80's version of Batman vs The Monk was beautifully gothically drawn). Miller didn't start it, he just made the most famously stylized versions (and he didn't even do the art in Year One). Batman Forever and Batman & Robin are too 60's Batman for me, Batman Begins-verse are too Miller-esque (and has a Batman who doesn't go after the rich and wealthy as much as anything else), the Burton Batman movies are...okay. They get most of the tone right, which is nice. The Batman was also decent enough - it feels like a nice return to the 70's version, and a critique of Snyder's mass-murderer Batman (watch BvS and tell me Batman didn't kill hundreds of innocent people in that car chase), in that the movie is all about Batman learning to not fight for vengeance, but to save people. But none of them have gotten it entirely _right._ The Batman and Batman (1989) and Batman Returns got closest, but not entirely all the way there. Mainly because Burton's Batman was a _deliberate_ killer (which, granted, is canon to 1938 Batman) and The Batman was a bit too Year One/Fincher's Seven for me.

[@motomike71]

Interesting comparison to Iron Man because he basically is Marvel's version of Batman. I think that the game Arkham City is probably the best story take of a depiction of Batman. Even though it references Batman's origins it doesn't get bogged down in them. It shows off his rogues gallery of villains in a compelling way. It's dark, but still fun as the character feels lived in. Batman in Arkham City knows who he is and what he's doing.

[@ryancoe1686]

The best batman every put to screen was batman the animated series, with kevin conroy as the voice of the dark knight :D

[@paakdisayaniyom]

In my opinion, the "gritty" and "serious" Batman movies in many past years (since 2005)​ has created one great consequences that was Warner Brothers/DC had created a generation that would denounce DC stuffs over Marvel/MCU stuff simply because MCU​ stuff was neither "dark" nor "takes themselves too seriously" as current "gritty"​ Batman movie... Don't​ get me wrong, I just watch The Batman and I really like it (like I prefer 2022 The Batman over Nolan's Trilogy) but I my favorite kind of Batman is the one that balance the "dark" and "lighthearted" stuffs like the Batman The Animated cartoon... In the end, if I have to blame Batman and Robin for one thing, that would be "it's seems impossible to make fun and lighthearted Batman movie, because it would be silly" (not counting Lego Batman movie)​

[@Metalisalearning77]

Personally.... I'm getting to the point of getting SERIOUSLY sick & tired of Batman being lazily written to being able to defeat literal demigods, eldritch superbeings & other ludicrously overpowering characters!! For me now; those ridiculously powerful villains is what Superman & other heroes like him are there to face down! Enough with the "Plot-Armour"! Tone down the "Preparation-Time!" do allow the Caped Crusader to make mistakes & grow as a character! I for one would love to see a cool, chill, casual Batman whose a little sorted who handles his trauma decently & this ought to be the low point for a Batman story & NOT be dark & gritty all the time!!

[@jackalcoyote8777]

You're suspended from the ampersand key until you go to [& Rehab]

[@Metalisalearning77]

@@jackalcoyote8777 It's merely a shorter way of using "and"... ... & Nothing more

[@SaurianStudios1207]

If you ask me, it would be refreshing to have a Batman movie that embraces the more abstract, comic booky and over-the-top style while still having some realistic elements and a dark tone. Ever since Nolan’s Batman trilogy became successful and reinvented the superhero genre, there’s also been this stigma that realistic Batman is better in an attempt to brush away all the campiness of the 1966 Batman and the 90s Schumacher Batman, but it’s kinda getting repetitive and predictable to have yet another realistic Batman movie when you have a catalog of other characters and storylines you can choose from. Here’s the thing: you can have a Batman movie that’s badass, fun, exciting and over the top without being too campy or cringeworthy, take for instance the two Tim Burton Batman movies, which were deliberately stylized, over the top, fun and badass yet still maintained that darker tone of Batman. That isn’t to say that dark and realistic isn’t good, it made since for the Nolan Batman to do that, but I honestly earn for a Batman movie that’s comic booky, over the top and badass yet still maintains dark and serious elements.

[@tmanook]

I'm sick to death of these reboots for Batman, Spiderman, etc.... Alas, I don't think they will ever go away. I do have to say, the animated Batman series was quite good.

[@Halbared]

My fave Batman is Adam West. That’s the way it works best. Have no care for the bat family though, or Robin.

[@samjudge1240]

You have a point there, I can entertain the idea of a brooding man in a bat suit, yet I'll never agree to it, since I want Batman to be a inspiring, fantastical detective superhero again. As I can understand the 60s batman may be silly and cheesy, while editing the grim dark batman to be more "mature and smart", however. The creators of The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight Rises, Alen Moorse and Frank Miller, I find them two to be the most childish and silliest men in the comic book industry, making Batman troubled for the illusion of being smart and deep, failing to care that Batman is supposed to be a inspirational Hero to children and not a moral dilemma mess.

[@ktanner3]

Kids stories around the turn of the 20th century were much more violent. Pick up and read the original story of Pinocchio or check out those early Batman comics you mentioned where he is using guns to kill. The "Batman doesnt kill people" thing didnt come until much later. The Batman movie wasnt an origin story as it took place in year two of Batman fighting crime. Plus I dont get the Nolan comparison. The Nolan trilogy was an action packed "Heat" version of Batman while this new one was more like Seven or the Zodiac Killer with little action and a lot of detective work. Two entirely different styles. It's not for everyone, but then again you can always watch pretty much any other superhero movie if you desire a more fun, action packed adventure.

[@louissivo9660]

I had seen the movie and didn't like it, but I couldn't figure out exactly what was wrong. All the elements on their own were fine, the actors, the setting, etc... But you summed it up well here. It's so realistic that it's boring. This film lacks the fun factor. I'm also bored with the same villains in each movie. I wish they would bring some new ones to the screen, another great point on your part. Good review.

[@kinga.t.242]

will its not the movie falt maybe your taste isnt for this movie maybe the movie just not for you

[@louissivo9660]

@@kinga.t.242 I agree. As I noted the elements making up the movie were good. But together it just didn't work for me. That's wholly on me, I realize that. The only thing I could push back on the creators is the overuse of the same villains. That is definitely in their control. I'd like to see them be a bit more original next time. (And yes, I would go see another.)

[@kinga.t.242]

@@louissivo9660 if you mean the joker your right but the joker is very iconic you cannot make a trilogy and don't put a joker on it

[@stevedenis8292]

It is that fine razors edge that makes Batman a great character. There has to be enough realism so that you are not sure he can win but an equal amount of over power in his gadgets or intellect that he will win. Big problem today is the running and grinding every thing into the ground remakes re boots same old stuff within a few years almost months. The other problem is after you have seen one super hero movie you know that the hero will win you just go for the ride.

[@edibleapeman]

My love and enjoyment of The Batman begins with the costume. After ALL THESE YEARS, they FINALLY put a Batman on screen who can A) turn his head without B) looking like he's on a deranged SWAT team. I haaaaaated the Batman costume in TDK an TDKR because it never looked like Batman to my eyes. Batman Begins looked okay but the cowl was still this thick goopy rubber and it made Bale look like he had brain swelling. Those days are behind us. Some genius in the costume department gave Pattinson's Batman a fucking collar and that fixed the whole problem. Now, Batman can MOVE like Batman ought to move. He can believably perform stunts and acrobatics for the first time without taking anything away from the costume itself. It is simply gorgeous. Also, I don't see Pattinson's Batman as "more realistic" or even realistic at all. Yes, it's dark, but it's GOTHIC dark; it's stylized dark. The Batman isn't camp but it isn't realistic, either. It's gothic... or pushing the franchise in that direction.

[@GetToSleepFaster]

This movie was really boring.

[@sglenny001]

I love this style of Gotham. Gotham has always been my style for a fictional city Gothic, Art Deco and Brutalism I just love it Tim Burton Gotham is my favourite Gotham but my favourite Batman is one in the animated series I would honestly love a Batman that has a takes nothing it all seriously and knows the sauce martial oh yeah that exist it's called the LEGO Batman movie

[@90lancaster]

Batman is often the author of his own problems - maybe that could be an interesting idea - not the man who keeps Gotham in check - but the one who made it even worse simply by existing and by raising the stakes. Kinda like if you lived in the world of Power Rangers you'd be a bit tired of seeing your city get stomped all over for the 100th time. The denizens would be like "oh Look Batman has another villain - oh wonderful - just what we need on top of a corrupt Gotham PD and rampant violent street crime. Someone driving a bat shaped racing tank around chasing someone in an exotically themed vehicle and causing dozens of car accidents. It's not like someone is casting "Miraculous Ladybug" and fixing any collateral damage Batman causes to happen simply be being a challenger the clowns want to fight. But other wise - I can''t say I Need a Batman Movie that often - make a Plastic Man movie for a change.

[@Cheesusful]

I thought that was the message of this film...

[@FabianEllis]

100% get your point. But I think this Batman is very fun. The car chase and flying scenes feel like Matt Reeves having a great time playing with this bat character for some fun set pieces. Even when Batman’s just walking around he looks quite silly and his bike literally has bat ears on it. Reeves is also making fun of Catwoman’s love of cats and Penguin’s just hilarious. The film isn’t without an underlying dark, silly sense of humour. The film is very 66 inspired with how grounded it is. But that’s the great thing, you can do lots of different takes with Batman! Batman is great when he’s an optimistic character working with a team in a similar way to how Star Trek functions as optimistic (even tho Batman is set in Gotham the opposite of Utopian Trek 😂).

[@javierlopez9789]

Next Batman is gonna be so grounded he wont even wear the suit.

[@Jesse-cx4si]

“Boring” is a compliment. Too predictable and plodding. I think Pattinson is a GREAT actor, but this Emo Batman and the story are….oops, I fell asleep thinking about it. 💤 😴 🥱

[@t3h51d3w1nd3r]

I completely agree, I was kind of bored through the film, it looked great, the story was good, the cast was good but it just didnt wow me and I've no desire to see it again, except maybe the batmobile scene.

[@sharoonaftab8894]

To me the story didn't connect I was expecting some hardcore mystery and detective stuff with traps etc. However , batman couldn't solve nothing and the villain easily turned himself in without any challenge. Only to end up fighting incel internet freaks. 6/10

[@kinga.t.242]

@@sharoonaftab8894 will i think you really need to watch the film again batman solved all the riddles and catched falcone and the riddler turned himself in to be known

[@LadyAstarionAncunin]

I tried watching The Batman twice but couldn't get into it; it was just too self-serious and OTT brooding. I just prefer TAS, Burton's version, and the video games. Of more recent movie versions, I only enjoyed The Dark Knight, but it doesn't have any replay value for me these days. These latter films feel like comic book movies made by people who don't like/respect comic books (especially Joker, even though I love it as a film).