Richard Rhodes - Oppenheimer, Spies, AI, & Armageddon

[@DwarkeshPatel]

What an honor to interview such a legendary author and historian, and to hear first hand the stories from one of the most destructive and awesome times in human history. Please share if you enjoyed!

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

The United States is extraordinarily proud. So forget that the Soviet Union was 2.5x bigger than the USA Of course the Soviet Union had uranium somewhere. Blockade the Soviet Union from world uranium Supply 😂

[@sacorcor7723]

One of the best podcasts I’ve listened to in a long time. Great job Dwarkesh! Will definitely read his book.

[@matthewgrissop9408]

The Making of the Atomic bomb on audio book is absolutely amazing you'll love it

[@DwarkeshPatel]

Thank you 🙏

[@carkawalakhatulistiwa]

51:42 ​​​@@DwarkeshPatelYou are seriously asking this stupid question . why the Soviet Union had so many good scientists.The Soviet Union was the first country to guarantee free education up to college PhD .In 1990 60% of the population graduated from college. Compared to 30% in the United States, and Soviet Union had a larger population than the United States.

[@ThePWNDR]

@@carkawalakhatulistiwaif the soviets were so smart, why did their country collapse? go drink vodka and hide from being conscripted 😂

[@rtqii]

@@carkawalakhatulistiwa Dude wake up... This happened in the 1940's and went on into the Cold War. The Russians stole the plans for the Fat Man from spies in America. Then German scientists and engineers that they captured at the end of the war designed the equipment and processes they used to do things like extract uranium and plutonium... All the early work, all the materials engineering, was done by captured Germans. Zippe-type centrifuge for instance.

[@xevUT]

One of the most extraordinary interviews I've ever heard. I've read a good deal about the history of creation of the atomic bomb but none of the literature paints the picture so vividly and connects the events so holistically as Richard Rhodes.

[@BabyBoomerChannel]

Rhodes book is the best source of this topic. I loved it

[@Muonium1]

This man is 86 years old. National treasure.

[@iitzfizz]

And he doesn't look much older than he did in the old documentaries, he's awesome always love listening to him.

[@raybrandt]

totally

[@drachenmarke]

He has a narrative.

[@joelpiva1541]

​@@drachenmarke A leftist narrative. He's very biased.

[@mikebarushok5361]

​@@joelpiva1541I would say he has an anti-violence narrative. And, that he believes there are no essential or basic differences that make any race or nationality superior to any other. It's more or less his basic premise that tribalism and nationalism and racism and intolerance cause people to do evil. It might be that is how you define socialism. The belief that competition easily gets out of hand and causes irrational behaviors and decisions.

[@Eliot_Lear]

"What fools we've all been" is a common refrain once an advance has been made. "I am an idiot" is another common refrain. "How could this have been otherwise?” We forget that paradigm shifts are always unpredictable.

[@Automobiliana]

Clear, concise and an absolute wealth of knowledge. Mr Rhodes is wonderful to listen to. A simple question gives a multifaceted and eloquent answer. Riveting.

[@northwoodsliving101]

Richard Rhodes is a treasure, I could listen to him talk 24/7. God Bless you Sir!!

[@joelpiva1541]

This dude is a socialist and sees the world through thick bias glasses. He's an apologist for everything communist.

[@GlobalDrifter1000]

Which god?

[@johnfox9169]

I purchased and read Rhodes, The Making of the Atomic Bomb AND Dark Sun. What excellent writing!! What excellent books!!

[@kineticarrangements]

“Dark Sun”… the segment where Rhodes describes what happens during the Ivy Mike test, pretty much millisecond by millisecond… solid gold writing.

[@tombriggs5348]

The Making of the Atomic Bomb was the best piece of history I ever read. I was in a cold sweat at the description of the first test.

[@charleskatz2606]

Try "The Prize" by Daniel Yergen about the history of the oil industry.You'll love it

[@jackmercer1]

Dark Sun was good too

[@PhilipWalsh-w2u]

Best history book I ever read. The Most Secret War - R.V Jones, close second.

[@SgtMjr]

Great interview. Rhodes' bomb books are the best history on that period, I re-read them every couple of years they are that good.

[@stanburman9978]

Gentlemen thank you both for this outstanding interview. Richard I can't tell you how much I love to listen to you talk about the history of the making of the atomic bomb. I have read both of your excellent books about the fission and fusion weapons developments.

[@stuartc1461]

Such an amzing man. Love listening to him. A direct link to modern history, so intelligent, so informed, so articulate. Richard Rhodes, love you man.

[@kidpizz]

Best moment when the host says AI people love Rhodes book. Rhodes retort let's discuss unintended consequences. 😊

[@samwager8403]

😊😊😊😊😊77uu7u7😊7y7😊7😊y😊77u😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊u😊uu😊u😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊ù😊😊ù😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊ü😊😊😊😊😊😊😊e😊😊😊😊r6e6rr77r6⁷6r

[@PO-nd6uo]

Dwarkesh, yay!! Another episode!!! :)

[@shrinidhikulkarni479]

Wow. What an interview. Amazing guest. Glad I stumbled upon this video.

[@teepee431]

Incredible pleasure. His book on the making of the Hiroshima-Nagasaki weapon is permanently housed in my bathroom for the last 15 years, for constant ruminations. Congratulations to Patel for bringing into discussion the AI bit. Absolutely wonderful stretch.

[@michaelanthony279]

Dwarkesh, I admire your interview skills. You control just enough to guide the interview and just enough context to help us. Terrific work.

[@gdk5034]

I was all about it! The interview was great, definitely gonna dive into that book ASAP.

[@aba9939]

Great episode. Big fan of yours Dwarkesh. Keep it up!

[@pjeverly]

2 and half hour interview and I loved all of it. Mr. Rhodes is always amazing. Thank you for letting him speak and share is thoughts on this very important topic. Great work.

[@2ndfloorsongs]

When I listened to your interview with Ilya Sutskever, I immediately subscribed and turned on all possible notifications. Well they just worked and I just watched. Wow, I have witnessed concise and intelligent before, I prize it, and with this interview you've joined my top 10 (he said modestly). And I know, I know; some people would say that interviewing Richard Rhodes would make anybody look good. But no, I've seen two, otherwise intelligent people, screw it up. You did the opposite. The chemistry of your interaction, just like with Sutskever, added enjoyment to knowledge. I think the quality of your questions and your obvious sincerity in wanting to know the answers brought out the best in both of them. And considering the level these two are capable of, I found these interviews nothing short of thrilling. Kudos, dude; my notifications remain on.

[@litltoosee]

Outstanding job Dwar, I judge an interview by how little an interviewer says, and how much they allow their guest to speak... Wonderful!

[@makthnife]

Unless they speak a mile a minute and can’t spit out a proper question like here! Thank God the guest speaks most of the time…annoying as shit with this dwar guy

[@robertray1284]

Just finished the 4 part audio book. Loved it. Thank You...

[@robfreeman5783]

This interview is an awesome find. So relevant to, of course, the movie, but also AI.

[@TheRemarkableN]

This is truly a great interview. Very well done.

[@taylorbeagley]

Hey, I just want to say that I absolutely love these history podcasts. Best podcasts I have seen in a long time!!!

[@michaelanthony279]

This is such an incredible interview. Thank you.

[@leoingson]

Marvelous episode and podcast. Thanks Dwarkesh!

[@vxrdrummer]

One of the best books I have ever read...read several times, in fact. It's the best of the purely non-technical based accounts of developing atomic weapons.

[@gjb1million]

Great episode!!

[@justanotherfella4585]

Thank you for an alternative slant on things. Much needed.

[@Vortklox]

Very enjoyable interview and guest. Thank you.

[@vladimirantimonov2578]

Such a great interview! My god, the grandpa is brilliant, and nice, I hope to have 10% of his mental abilities if I live to his age! I wish this interview was more popular so we’d get more like this in the future, not only interviews with Yudkowskys and Andreessens etc (which were great too but who are everywhere now). Thank you Dwarkesh, love your interviews, respect from Russia! ✊🏻

[@DwarkeshPatel]

Thank you man 🙏

[@tricky6744]

Great interview! Just ordered the book.

[@SauvelmM]

That was thoroughly engaging and insightful, thank you. My existential dread at the state of global society and affairs was momentarily set aside in reverence to the awesome perspective provided here on historical existential crises in a not-so-long-past nacsent version of global society... where things didn't all collapse, though it came close.

[@LibertyRPF]

Wonderful, amazing interview! I loved it and have been recommending it to so many people ever since I first heard it 💚 🥃

[@DwarkeshPatel]

So glad!

[@bpassmore]

One of the best interviews I have had the opportunity to listen to/watch. Thank you

[@puncheex2]

34:31 "That's not the heat that's the light..." Correct - there is actually no such thing as "radiant heat". What you have from the bomb is UV, visible light and infrared (plus some microwave and radio). Infrared light is simply visible light that is not visible because our eyes can't react to it. You don't get heat until these components are absorbed by something and the light energy is converted to heat. If you stand outside on a bright sunny summer day, about half of the heat you feel is your body absorbing infrared, and another 45% is it absorbing the visible light, and the rest absorbing UV. The heat is in you, not in the light itself. 42:24 "A nuclear reactor is very quiet; it just sits there with neutrons running around." Well, all except for those high volume pumps used to circulate the coolant. I completely agree with Richard that the land based bombs were not and are not needed. 1:17:34 "We have a system in place..." to detect treaty cheating. Yes we do; it's not within the IAEA, but rather it is part of the Comprehensivee Test Ban Treaty, a UN organization called the CTBTO. (ctbto.org). It has acoustic and seismic listening posts all over the planet with anytime-inspection rights in all signatory countries. Of course, most nation are signed up, except the UDA. The US signed the treaty but it has never ratified it by the Senate as required by the Constittion.

[@trimetrodon]

Israel. Which threatens other countries weekly with their nukes, accuses others of having them, yet itself refuses to sign on to the NNPT. Israel… which stole its highly-enriched, weapons grade uranium from the NUMEC plant in Apollo, Pennsylvania. No country built on terrorism, massacres and racial & religious supremacism should be allowed to have nukes and threaten others with them.

[@nichendrix]

Lisa Mitner was probably the candidate to the Nobel Prize in Physics to be nominated to be a real cipient fo the prize the highest number of times, but she has been never awarded it.

[@PickSixer]

Best book I have ever read on this topic - he recounts almost all of the steps and contributions of the various scientists from around the time they proved that the atom and atomic nucleus are composed of multiple pieces that could potentially be broken up and release tremendous amounts of energy. Highly recommend!

[@scottnj2503]

Thanks, great interview of a man that has had a unique perspective on the world of nuclear weapons.

[@MichaelMcCausland-pg6qs]

Thank you so kindly for explaining everything I have known since my family was very integral and the UC LAWRENCE Livermore radiation lab and yes, I live with those families of the paperclips

[@tree089]

I think an interview with Ben Goertzel would be fascinating. His work on Artificial General Intelligence and the development of sophisticated AI systems like Sophia the robot could provide a lot of insight into the current state and future of AI. Ben is one of the most prominent thought leaders in this space so a discussion with him on your podcast would likely be very illuminating for your audience.

[@swapanjain892]

I think he is a charlatan. I may be wrong though.

[@noswearingacc]

I’m clearly more intelligent than any AI so who cares

[@benlawless9539]

Love your books Richard!

[@padrig2460]

Excellent

[@richardvernon317]

Interesting comment about the spherical secondary on an H Bomb. I first learnt about it on a BBC program about the British H Bomb program where it was described by one of the British guys who worked on it. It kind of backed up comments made by Mark Urban in a 1995 program that the British had come up with a design for a very efficient H Bomb, but had a lot of problems engineering it into a practical weapon. Thus part of the US/UK joint nuclear program which was restarted in 1958 saw the US give the UK the designs for operational H Bombs to allow the UK to get an H Bomb into service in large numbers ASAP, while the US perfected the UK design for use by both nations.

[@iitzfizz]

I think the W88 warhead has this design

[@albin2232]

I have read the book 3 times over the years. It is the definitive masterwork.

[@O.M.G.Puppies]

I read the same story about Beria in a Russian source. A lot of their rocket and nuclear scientists wrote fascinating tell-all articles and books in the '90s. I didn't realize that RDS-2 and RDS-3 were their own Russian designs, but if you look up the stats you see they were twice the yield of RDS-1.

[@jerryhoughton1869]

It's been alluded to in movies and documentaries about being behind on trigger design and thenn suddenly a breakthrough resulting in TRINITY!

[@dajelj]

Amazing interview.

[@warrenlucas9624]

Thanks!

[@NigelDeForrest-Pearce-cv6ek]

Absolutely Brilliant!!!

[@MaximBatcho-fk5dr]

Какое удовольствие, слушать умного человека, старшие поколения, всё таки эти люди имели более широкие взгляды на мир. И более глубокие понимание жизни, и политики и тем более культуры.

[@bitjockey6265]

I read his book The Making of the Atomic Bomb with intent to learn about the science. I was not expecting to learn about the political and socio-economic forces that sculpted the environment in Europe that put the scientists and engineers where they were to collaborate in the effort. It was a difficult read, but well worth the effort. 20 two hour movies could not cover the book's content.

[@robbie_]

I really enjoy Mr Rhodes books, especially Dark Sun (if "enjoy" is the right word to use). I would've loved an addendum about the Castle test series as that history is also fascinating. Great interview. Thanks for sharing.

[@med1na33]

Really enjoyed this. Thanks

[@devinr584]

Great interview… extremely informative

[@byronwilliams7977]

Between this episode and the one with Sarah Paine, this podcast is easily as good as the best episodes done by Lex Fridman. Please keep up thr excellent work.

[@surindergrewal4640]

What an interesting life he has had - makes most people life seam tedious - amazing guy love the stories

[@rajuaditya1914]

Knocked it out of the park Dwarkesh!

[@jumpinjehoshaphat1951]

His two books on the development of the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb are terrific reads.

[@silverismoney]

Rhodes is like the number 1 nuke historian. Unbiased. I've been watching this guy's contributions to the field for two decades now.

[@Mr.Mike.gee74]

Insightful discussion 👏

[@PlasmaCoolantLeak]

Reading his book now on the H-Bomb, "Dark Sun."

[@willpinder1229]

Outstanding !

[@davewolfy2906]

Dear Mr Patel, You interviewed, You spoke less than the prevalence of U235, Very, very well done indeed.

[@profeluisegarcia]

LOVE EACH PAGE OF YOUR BOOK. Luis. Manizales, Colombia

[@hypercomms2001]

6:30 / 2:37:36 The one thing that regrettably gets overlooked is the importance of the Frisch Peierls memorandum. Because neither the Germans or the Americans had actually managed to perform the calculation for the critical mass with pure U-235, as did Rudolf Peierls and Otto Frisch did and so the assumption that was prevalent in the United States and in Germany was the critical mass was to be so large as to be undeliverable by an aircraft... kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpXYeWpsZpiEjtksi=4PR0RgoBhXfDPtXS If there was no Frisch Peierls memorandum, and the subsequent MAUD Report, they would have been no nuclear weapon. As for the Germans and Heisenberg, despite all the anxiety of the allies, it just simply wasn't the high priority for them, and Heisenberg, as he did not believe that a atomic bomb was practical... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKuse4ethpeVorcsi=a0u9OL4-cBwdTRU2

[@JakobIlar]

The Year Without Summer (1816) occurred as a result from the eruption of Mount Tambora in Indonesia the previous year. The ash cloud spread globally, resulting in a global temperature drop of 0.4-0.7 °C (0.7-1 °F). The changes to global weather patterns caused crop failures, worldwide, resulting in widespread famine.

[@RabidRazorback80]

I think a book on scientific or technical advancement an unintended consequences would be great.

[@patrickj.sobkowski2341]

Fantastic.

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Just found this channel today and this was an amazing interview. Argued the point of using the bombs and he said the Japanese would have surrendered since the soviets were coming. I argued without them millions of Japanese and Americans would have died before the surrender just going off the casualties we suffered taking small islands without urban centers.

[@toshmarie3499]

I heard once, quite awhile ago...there was not a word in Japanese equivalent 2 a translation of 'surrender', therefore when face-2-face w/da enemy...they refuse or rather do an honorable eating their sword

[@jloiben12]

I think the question of if we would have built a nuclear bomb if there wasn’t WWII needs an additional condition in order for it to be a meaningful question. If no War and if no Adolf, then would there be nuclear bombs? While the war was the accelerate to getting one built in 1945, Adolf was another push. Maybe it wouldn’t have been 1945 and it would have been 1950 or 1963, but with Adolf around many countries would have been pushing to get it first

[@caseymurray7722]

The technology was there. Even without a war going on it would have eventually been used to make a bomb. Most likely later and at a larger scale though. I'm glad it happened when it did. Any nuclear weapons advancements during peacetime would have either led to more nuclear explosives used in a war or time for warning and diplomacy. It just depends on whether the financier is developing a weapon for war or for research purposes

[@ajohny8954]

1:12:00 - 1:13:50 that’s one of the worst plans I’ve heard in my life. Otherwise, very interesting until now

[@VikramTayde]

With due respect to Mr. Rhodes opinion, of course the US was worried about the India-Pakistan nuclear escalation. But India and Pakistan held back due to their own volition and restraint. At best, it was a minor conflict where less than 5% of the defence resources of both countries were engaged.

[@dwilldos]

Seriously great video

[@ttrestle]

I’ve read all of his books

[@shrinidhikulkarni479]

Wow. Awesome

[@Starkada]

If you've ever been at an airshow where they do the fake bombing and they blast up fireballs like a thousand ft away, the fireball blast itself is far off in the distance but the feeling of heat hitting your skin so harshly and intensely from 1,000 ft away is just a tiny fraction of an example of what it would be like with the heat radiated from a nuclear bomb going off in the distance

[@stonerbot]

Talking about a 1000 megaton explosion with a 10 mile diameter fireball, and larger than the depth of the atmosphere, so that the it would extend it to space... Could something like that be used to carve out chunks of atmosphere from Venus as part of a terraforming project?

[@stonerbot]

Redirect comets to add water, and coordinate the large blasts to reduce density and dissipate heat

[@jloiben12]

To be fair about Vietnam, that’s as much of a loss as the Afghan pullout was poorly done. Like yes. Trump screwed the Afghan government and facilitated a near instantaneous Taliban takeover. Absolutely. And we moved over 100,000 people over 3,000 miles in 1 week. Depending on when exactly you want to say America made the decision to pull out, North Vietnam ranged from being a country without borders to a bunch of tiny plots.

[@loshosorus5343]

Anyone have a source for the comment "there were only roughly 1000 physicists in the world in 1900"?

[@cogoid]

The number is in the right ballpark. Royal Catalogue lists 850 academic physicists in all major countries in 1900.

[@honorandspite]

I intend to buy his book. But you need to adjust his mic volume for his voice. It's too low.

[@Bronko-il2qh]

"Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.”

[@joemadden4160]

Terrific book, as is the followup Dark Sun.

[@lornespry]

Everything I've read on the subject contradicts Mr Rhodes' statement about nuclear powered submarines. Nuclear reactors are not just about nuclear particles running around. There are pumps. And they are nosier than submariners and admirals would would like. Among the quietist submarines are are the diesel electric type. They can be extremely quiet. But of course they have obvious limitations.

[@Leotv19]

Nerd

[@Johnny-Joseph]

To a child asleep in bed, there is no difference between a single HE bomb landing on your house and an atomic bomb a mile away...murder is murder

[@DeanLawrence_ftw]

Please put your clips on a separate channel, with a link from the clip to the full conversation. I had to search to find this video. Mixing old clips with new podcasts makes it harder for viewers to find what they're looking for. Your podcasts are fantastic, but I feel like this puts up a small barrier to enjoying your content.

[@sarcasmo57]

Ending wars would be cool.

[@davidwright8432]

The huge difference between firebombing (say) Tokyo, which was done, and using an A bomb instead, was the radioactive fallout. This is a qualitative change in consequence of weapon choice, in both time of effect and area over which it's spread by wind.

[@mikebarushok5361]

There's arguably a huge difference in the number of aircraft, personnel and logistics needed to conduct large scale carpet bombing vs a single nuclear bomb. There's at least a little extra emotional effect that fallout affects areas outside of the target and there's the fear surrounding cancer and mutations and possible effects on future generations that causes an exaggeration of the perceived harm of fallout.

[@mathbrown9099]

This man wrote the finest WWII book.

[@willdwyer6782]

According to my research Oppenheimer was 5'10" and weighed 115 lb

[@winsomehax]

What did Richard think of the 1980s BBC series of Oppenheimer? I quite enjoyed it, so curious on how accurate he thinks it is.

[@Bareego]

One of my two favorite authors, thanks for this interview !

[@nope3029]

Rip 4yy eertaa

[@Naegimaggu]

He sounds just like Kenneth Baker, President of Armstech from Metal Gear Solid. They even talk about the same kind of stuff.

[@curious736]

I've rered this book about 10 times.

[@kylecoffey5779]

Truest thing this guy said is when he compares the scientific feild of the atmomic bomb to AI. Purely destructive.

[@dominicguye8058]

Did you even watch the whole video?

[@robertfraser9551]

This is getting into the weeds a bit, but what would have happened if the bomb was available a year earlier in Aug 1944, or a year later in Aug 1946. Either was possible. The late possibility was avoided in large measure by physicist Mark Oliphant travelling from UK to the USA in Aug 1941 and short circuiting the Uranium Committee. The Brits had determined that a bomb was in fact practically possible but requiring a manufacturing effort beyond their capabilities and so sent all their data to the USA to get something started. Oliphant flew to the USA to find out why nothing was happening. He found the data had been filed away with no action by Lyman Briggs the head of the Uranium Committee. Oliphant arranged to brief the committee directly and urged them to redirect all work to a bomb as a matter of the highest urgency. Oliphant then visited Ernest Lawrence head of the Radiation Lab at the University of California that also employed Oppenheimer. Lawrence got Oppenheimer to review the British data and both Lawrence and Oppenheimer became convinced that a bomb was not the practical impossibility at that time that many had thought. When the Manhatten Project began it was Lawrence that recommended to Groves that Oppenheimer lead the project. If the Uranium Committee had been responsive the bomb could have been delivered a year earlier for use against both Germany and Japan. If Oliphant had not travelled to the USA it is possible the bomb would have been delivered after a Japanese surrender.

[@MichaelMcCausland-pg6qs]

We need the art of state craft and diplomacy

[@broski7864]

Oh wow good job bro