187. CONCEIVED IN LIBERTY PART 2 with Michael Saylor & Patrick Newman on Murray Rothbard

[@syrupgoblin4920]

Saylors mind is something else. Very enjoyable talk

[@rustyshackleford6637]

He really shits it forward for us

[@Zoofactory]

What the heck is a syrup goblin? 😊

[@marktube4377]

Saylor is truly one of a kind

[@danobrien3760]

Saylor is a smart guy, I like the way he formulates his opinions and communicates them.

[@Garrhart]

This was thoroughly enjoyable and educating - thank you

[@AnthonyJones-gf6yv]

I really Ike Saylor’s attempts to keep the conversation focused, and bring these “youngin’s” back down to earth

[@UnderstandingBitcoin]

Logic & Reason

[@mattcordes9276]

Michael Saylor is human. And a genius. The two are rarely relative. Appreciate this combination and conversation.

[@bongoflava11]

Respect to Saylor, communication on point!

[@BJBONEDADDY]

Please do another 100 discussions, this was an incredible and epic podcast!

[@thorarthur66ddz]

Michael Saylor is the top dog

[@formetoknow540]

TOP G

[@johnnymidas5879]

THANKS SAIF.❤

[@JMW_JMW_JMW]

I enjoyed the first part of this discussion a lot! Looking forward to this one.

[@fondofsauce]

Outstanding discussion by awesome and inspiring titans of America.

[@c.p.1090]

Did not know Michael Saylor the rocket scientist also knew history this welll. 🎉

[@rustyshackleford6637]

He must smoke some good shit

[@SELLSHIELD]

Yeah he talks about a lot of the stuff he’s read over the years, true history buff ❤

[@Luke-cj7gz]

Fascinating discussion

[@laurelmmmmm4209]

Good to see the respectful disagreement. Thanks 🙏 Glad you are continuing the discussion.

[@getgoodmath9618]

I enjoyed part 1 thoroughly. Listen to that twice. And I am already enjoying part 2 as well

[@lliameasterbrook6634]

Great conversation. Looking forward to chapter 3 - hope it happens.

[@jeffreyschmidt1110]

Human Nature, historically and how it led up to modern behavior! It was good to see and hear different yet similar motivations from past jurisdictions and their solutions. Kudos too for the individuals perception with follow thru from the other two, sometimes w quick interjections to quickly clarify the previous point to end up for the listener to more fully understand the eventuality outcomes. Will take a listen to your part one and two again I’m sure! Insofar, fiat would seem to have played an important role. That truly incentivizes me to say Thank God for Bitcoin. Good work:)

[@leezyne2945]

So good. Hugely anticipating the 3rd. Can't wait.

[@559yadig]

One of the things I respect about saylor when he has discussions is that he's not emotions driven, and he doesn't get personal. He lays out the facts. Even if you don't believe it to be true, he just gives an analysis of the data on which anybody can view.

[@romanuhlevatyi]

Thank you.

[@monikaflem]

Yes we are waiting for part three:)

[@azdjedi]

I feel like Michael is owning Saif! Interesting to see.

[@MultiHinrik]

How?

[@Alexglib]

The relationship between external factors such as inflation data and the Federal Reserve's decisions and their impact on the cryptocurrency market, particularly Bitcoin, is truly intriguing. As the financial landscape undergoes rapid transformation, it becomes crucial to recognize the increasing significance of alternative assets like Bitcoin and embrace adaptive, innovative approaches. In the midst of these market shifts, it is commendable that individuals like Tammy Brockman are thriving by utilizing effective trading strategies. Her success in amassing 32 BTC within just three weeks highlights her profound market knowledge, expertise, and well-deserved reputation as a visionary in the world of cryptocurrency trading.

[@robingeorgian]

I lost a lot out of ignorance and lack of experience until I saw so many compliments about Tammy Brockman I have won so far and I hope to win even more, I am waiting for Tammy from tomorrow, I know that it will also be positive.

[@lorianndemelo]

Tammy is an honest and trustworthy mentor while dealing with others.

[@danielwhite3]

seeing this here really amazed me , Brockman taught me on how to trade with her magical signals to earn more profit .

[@Jessicayeshman]

It's easier for me to work with a broker. It's more of a partnership , all based on a shared percentage . she does the legwork required to pick stocks and execute trades , provides complete investment management to achieve your specified goals .

[@Klausamsel9]

Because of the economic crisis and the rate of unemployment, Investing in crypto now should be in every wise individual list, in some months time you'll be ecstatic with the decision you made today

[@daleharding3780]

My head just got WRECKED

[@skillz4life360]

I'm sorry but Saylor legit destroys every argument out against him lol. Conjecture that sounds nice vs facts and more facts

[@glamconcepts9103]

Awesome discussion! 🔥

[@awolgeordie9926]

I like both these dudes. Great talk.

[@loly_21M]

Saylor is brilliant!

[@christopherb8098]

Well said! Saif very much has a utopian lense he filters his ideas through. Saylor and Newman are much more pragmatic.

[@manstateandmemetics284]

Need an episode with Michael Saylor on the Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought.

[@FF-em5jk]

Can't wait for part 3!

[@darthbrooks4933]

Excellent good faith debate.

[@JakeWitmer]

1:23:00 Daniel Hannan's view in "Inventing Freedom" is the right take. Saylor FTW.

[@John-wf5if]

Saylors memory is freakishly impressive.

[@robsebesta]

Looking forward to part 3!

[@firechariot6948]

Part 3 please 🙏🏼

[@Incoghs102]

This is really good

[@user-wr4wp9en2q]

19.45 is the best moment of the pod. Saif brings out the blow torch when describing the current head of State in US as a child sniffing pedophile which the people smile & clap at when he comes on stage! *insert Elmo Gif* 🙌🏻🔥

[@pikkuporsas]

That’s the most embarrassing part. I can’t believe people are so gullible that they so easily fall for a thoroughly debunked video with a sniffing sound added as some sort of evidence of pedophilia, especially when the unaltered video is available everywhere. It’s crazy how easily manipulated people are. Dumb people will believe what they want.

[@alexl266]

"Democracy is the worst form of Government... except all the other ones." Love you Saif, but I agree with Saylor that the incentive structure alignment between monarch and posterity of the governed is intellectual only.

[@JakeWitmer]

1:36:00 Robert Kelly .. *The Transatlantic Persuasion* ...+ Adam Smith *The Theory of Moral Sentiments(1759)* and *...The Wealth of Nations(1775)* + The ideas outlined in Daniel Hannan's book *Inventing Freedom*

[@marktube4377]

Saylor’s brain is outta this universe. 🧠

[@robert.dillon]

How do you talk about Bitcoin without talking (much) about Bitcoin ❤

[@phiphen]

decentralization is the obvious key.

[@gregdaugherty6065]

All property rights are, fundamentally, intellectual property rights. The source of all production is the human intellect. As such, the abolition of intellectual property rights is the first step towards the abolition of all property rights.

[@Madosatoshist]

Sorry Saif I'm with Saylor on the Monarchy issue. Democracy is still the lesser evil.

[@TheCruxy]

Saylor has read Will Durant, based

[@AltumNovo]

Everything is a natural monopoly in some context and can't have unlimited power to cut of it's service. If you get invited into someone's house they can't trap you in there and say it's my house i can keep the doors shut.

[@eanerickson8915]

You should talk about parliamentary system (elected king) vs presidential system.

[@Tenebrousable]

Saylor has to be for the government monopoly licenses because of the nature of his business. He did break out of it regarding the money. But will mightily resist breaking it regarding most any service.

[@firechariot6948]

I ❤️ Saylor! Full e’ffing STOP!

[@ElizabetGrier]

It varies from other tokens owing to Web3 Infinity's self-governing nature. Inventive talent at its best!

[@gregdaugherty6065]

Saifedean’s time preference argument would be a lot stronger if he applied it to the selection of the President of the Executive Branch of a constitutional republic with separate legislative and judicial branches. As presented, his argument is highly dependent upon egregious context dropping.

[@formetoknow540]

Michael saylor is a g wheres he been hiding all along

[@formetoknow540]

@chrisdickinsonch in the matrix lost working for government currency lol 😆 seriously tho prior to bitcoin and his company buy btc I've never heard of him

[@formetoknow540]

@chrisdickinsonch this is exactly what I mean. He wrote the mobile wave and how smartphone was going to change the world and made investments in apple stock. One if his friends used to always tell him about ₿itcoin. In 2013 but he thought it was a novelty gambling nonsense. not until 2020 when he actually research and got educated he went all out and now his company own ₿152k he himself has got ₿17.5k

[@robertlevi3202]

Damn, don't argue guys.

[@JosephinaRossi]

The technology behind Web3 Infinity Token is remarkable. I'm eager to observe how it develops over the ensuing weeks.

[@JakeWitmer]

51:00 The vital importance of fair protocol.

[@knnmran]

i side with Saylor on this one. would USA be possible if it was a monarchy? would Rothbard be able to write the books he wrote if he was living in a monarchy? why arabs are not sending a rocket to the moon? why do we even need Bitcoin if monarchic systems are so perfect?

[@WhereAnt]

W debates wen next pod

[@Tenebrousable]

bery good

[@SimonFeay]

What are your thoughts on the Paper Bitcoin transacting on exchanges. Willy Woo had an interesting take recently... and concerning.

[@TheBitcoinRevolution]

Don’t worry. There are opposing views and the big difference is we can take bitcoin into selfcustody so it is very risky for asset managers to gamble with paper bitcoin as there is a strong chance they will get rekt

[@formetoknow540]

What the majority of people need to do is self custody and run a node

[@nmcontopoulos1610]

I'm just seeing this video now. It's October. Does that mean I have to wait until next September?

[@formetoknow540]

Saifedean u need to get trace mayer on he also loves your book obviously

[@JakeWitmer]

20:00 Saylor FTW, 100%

[@rockbarcellos]

Saylor is a pretty smart guy, despite some pretty basic blind spots. I've gotta say though, I loved how Saylor after Saif's rebuttal to his point just gives up 😂

[@jbbopp4947]

He didn't give up. He seemed to agree to disagree

[@rockbarcellos]

@@jbbopp4947 well, he wanted to leave already, of course, I get that, but I think it's fair to say he may have given up momentarily perhaps bc he had nothing at that moment to counter with aswell

[@africanscientist9450]

Hello Saif, excellent initiative. I have listened to part 1 & 2. Great overall idea. Only criticism will be to stay focused on subject which is the book "Conceived in Liberty". Towards the end, you and Patrick got a bit carried away and went on a diatribe, talking about our own personal monarchies we can all start in our respective basements. Its great to have personal opinions and point of views but thats not why we click on the video. We want to hear the ideas of the book and the wisdom extracted from said book not personal political stance, we can watch TV and cable for that ping pong battle of "me good, other side bad" kind of talk. I was a bit uncomfortable towards the end and I am sure Michael was too by judging from his reaction and body language. Please stay on topic of the book, extract the wisdom, correlate them to bitcoin if possible. You should not alienate your audience whether they think one way or another, let them decide for themselves. Felt a bit forceful towards the second part and couldn't finish the whole video. Once again thank you for the initiative. Keep up the good work. #bitcoin

[@au10666]

I'm getting confused, libertarian is a free market with less state intervention, this is completely different to the liberal ideology we have today?

[@pupfriend]

Yes. Little "l" liberal in the historical sense is essentially libertarian. Modern, big "L", Liberals tend to favor policies that end up with a stronger government apparatus.

[@stevelegreid]

Have Curtis Yarvin on the pod

[@Tenebrousable]

I find him insuferable. He's always monologuing with tangential and besides the point analogies. His stories are somewhat interesting and I'm hoping "yes, get to the point", but he barely ever does.

[@bryangoodson1721]

Who’s the other guy? It’s the Saylor show. I’m good with that.

[@ze_ondabeat4660]

13:26 a lot of what happened in these last hundred years can be attributed to central banking tho (not just democracy)

[@MOHAMMEDMchugh]

Web3 Infinity Token is about to go off the rails.

[@SPR77]

👍🏾

[@Slim934]

Wow watching Michael Saylor being sincerely blue pilled concerning the mechanics of monopolies was not on my bingo card when listening to this.

[@yvonnehyatt8353]

Programming of the common good. / for the planet.

[@ze_ondabeat4660]

16:02 even though I share the same sentiments that saifedean has towards monarchism, I must admit Saylor's right here, 💀

[@ronatola]

SAYLOR: destroys Saif's Monarchy argument beautifully, as he implies he read 7,000 pages on this subject, and summarizes. SAIF'S RESPONSE: oh ya? well your leader is a child sniffing pedofile (offers no proof for the accusation)

[@MultiHinrik]

Saif definetely had the better points when it came to the Monarchy discussion. The historical bias is real you'll never hear much about the benevolent times

[@JakeWitmer]

1:17:30 The View From Biology

[@Maleshevich]

I find it fascinating that there's highly intelligent multi-billionaires and researchers who read 1000 page thick books and still say EXCETERA instead of et cetera or pronounce secede as succeed, even though English is their native language. Bizarre. Great conversation btw, thanks to all three of you!

[@formetoknow540]

😂

[@dariusbrainiac]

It's all good when everyone is nodding along but part 3 might be the meat and... scrap to potatoes

[@tylerborigi4419]

Michael Saylor is next level, these 2 think that they in the same league as Saylor but they far from it.

[@CryptoDiaries]

Safidean not surprisingly, ignorantly bringing oversimplification. Kinda like BTC maxis. These academics. Saylor kicked them right in that ignorance.

[@TheBitcoinRevolution]

Saylor is on another level. No challenge yet he supposedly is not the expert. I think he just swallows books, mixes the contents and regurgitates. Amazing.

[@gregdaugherty6065]

Apple is not analogous to a government. Apple produces products for sale - ie it has a specific objective for generating profit. In contrast, government is force - the monopoly on the authority to respond to the initiation of force with force. Comparing a CEO to a monarch involves a great deal of dropping of context.

[@559yadig]

Maybe akin to the positions of like a Jerry Jones or George Soros.

[@555Trout]

Monarchy always better, as long as there are numerous small monarchies with a reasonable freedom to move between them. There is no worse form than "democracy". Early America had it pretty close, 13 limited suffrage(aristocracy) republics with freedom to move between.

[@btdoe3259]

Demo_crazy

[@LKNDIY]

Saylor is playing chess

[@keaton8182]

Saif, please debate the youtuber Vaush. He's a socialist statist liberal marxist with 450k subscribers. He calls himself a "libertarian socialist" and says libertarianism is socialism in principle, lol. Would love to see you destroy him in a debate . He hosts debates on his channel.

[@s.nawfal6211]

Just accept that you’re wrong Saif, you lack realpolitik perspective.

[@eanerickson8915]

If apple and google cut you off, is that good business?

[@MaximusMongoose]

This video goes to show that Saifedean Ammous should only stick to being an great Austrian economic and never have the ability to gain political power because if not he'll try to convince you why he would be a good monarch. Let's be honest Michael Saylor swept the floor with him as far as monarch vs modern governments go. No offense to the third gentleman but why was he even their felt like he was dragging the conversation down.

[@JakeWitmer]

1:44:00 FFS ... "secede" is pronounced "suh-seed" and the entirely different word "succeed" (as in "win" or "prevail") is pronounced "suck-seed." There's yet another definition of "succeed" meaning "following after a certain event, chronologically; inheriting a position," that is pronounced the same, but is also an antonym of "precede." This is one of the most important terms to pronounce correctly...if you want to provide any value for newbies...and Saylor gets it wrong over ten times in a row. That said, Saylor's point is correct if you can overlook his egregious mispronunciation error. The prior just shows that Rothbard had zero business insulting Leonard Read's *Foundation for Economic Education(FEE).* We'd be unbelievably fortunate if the public got to Read's level.

[@TheBitcoinRevolution]

Is that your contribution?

[@thesiyou]

Saifedean is influenced by Muawia bnu abi soufian...the king who destroyed islam. After the prophet

[@terrym8958]

Maybe saifedean will shut up about monarchy. He got blasted. I don’t think he can block me here.

[@eanerickson8915]

SF is going to lose google and apple.

[@chefdenker704]

Saylor's history is biased. He is not only ignoring the long periods of peace between Monarchies and within Monarchies, he also ignores Germany pre-1871 with its decentralized structure and the economic flourishing during this time. We need a world of millions of Liechtensteins, not these super states.

[@snwin]

I think Saylor derailed towards the end of the podcast, essentially supporting fiat and centralisation and coming up with nonsense examples like the hotel. Other than that, great talk..

[@cryptojeetu7599]

Not to forget British looted $45 trillion from India between 1765 to 1938 and caused 100 million premature death in the subcontinent

[@555Trout]

It's disappointing these three don't mention the actual essential thing; A common morality, Christianity. Without that it never happens. Which, btw, is why the west is dying now. Because that doesn't exist any longer.

[@CryptoDiaries]

Most popular intellectuals proudly display ignorance of the inner life. Their egos seem to disallow the divine, whereas the top and the bottom of the bell curve both embrace it.

[@pagexx]

Hrmn. Why is Patrick here? I just, the cadence of his voice is so unpleasant. He pronounces all /a/ loudly, I had to skip his every part.

[@s.nawfal6211]

Kings can be abusive as well, inside the court of the king there are many competing factions as well, just a different kind of game, Saifedean you are oversimplifying. Just like how Roman and Islamic Empires collapsed. Just focus on money, and when extrapolating please do carefully, I would highly appreciate a more Machiavellian perspective as well. I recommend invite Robert Greene to your podcast, the writer of 48 Laws of Power. Cheers!

[@BoomBustProfits]

The idea is not that a monarchy is good (or bad)…A King has a long term interest (lower time pref) than a high time pref Democracy that enriches their puppermasters as fast as possible - an elected president/leader in a democracy is like a renter that trashes the place & does not care about the long term health of the country…the idea is that smaller entities should compete against each other instead of one monolithic entity (Monarchy or Democracy…Thousands of Liechtensteins/Singapores/Monaco/etc competing against each other to attract human & economic capital is better than a monolithic Democracy that has no competition - “Government is by definition an inherently inefficient, wasteful, & coercive territorial MONOPOLIST of ultimate decisionmaking & violence. All of history & simple logic proves this...Those on the Government payroll lead a parasitic existence at the expense of a subdued & “host” populace.“ So a high time preference enormous democracy like the US Federal Govt, definitely fits that definition - The AntiFederalists were correct! At least individual stayes have to compete…How do you keep the High Time Preference FedGov monopoly from destroying Liberty (exactly what has been happening in the usa…since the Coup aka the US Constitution…

[@paulkieffer1189]

Good stuff. I like that Micheal can disagree with saif getting petty & upset

[@christopherb8098]

Michael has a perspective advantage over the other two, having run a publicly traded company.

[@VEGANWARRIOR]

Basic human needs should never be competition. smfh goofy thinking smfh