How Shipping Ruined Star Vs the Forces of Evil

The video no one knew they needed. Come with me as I discuss the great debacle that was Starco and how shipping tanked the show.
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[@SarcasticChorus]

SHOUT OUT TO MORINGMARK for keeping the fandom alive and retroactively brainwashing me into thinking Tom X Janna was a thing! Also, I accidentally used Tomco more than once apparently when I meant Tomstar. Had to repress the urge to rant about it all day so I guess it just slipped in there.

[@misstressfoxtail05]

I don't know about everyone else but I shipped Tom x Janna at the time. I thought they would make an interesting couple.

[@tkiesailastname4656]

HAH nice. I love MorningMark's work

[@maem7462]

@@misstressfoxtail05 Honestly same they were another one of my ships

[@marcosantoro7465]

That ship from Moringmark is almost better than anything else the show gave us. Exept kellco. Justice for kellco!

[@alandtic4616]

Morning Mark is great funny, skilled and his oc comics are super wholesome

[@PennTankerGuy]

How it started: Two friends go on magical adventures. How it ends: Boyfriend and girlfriend kill every single magical creature in existence.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

just to be together Edit: Let's not forget that Star & Marco were boyfriend and girlfriend for only like a day or so

[@hunterkoons2008]

Kind of ironic that one of the lessons she learned was about mumans having displaced and oppressed the monsters and she ends the show by literally committing genocide.

[@EmeraldKeys]

Thinking about how they turned the spells in Star's wand into likeable characters only to just kill them off in the end without realizing that

[@itsmax9535]

and its not like its written well or something no they are being treated like heroes that did the right thing

[@Office_chair]

I didn't really like the ending of them having to get rid of magic and everything I felt like that was muwnis whole thing. AND ALSO MARCO AND STAR DATING ONLY HAPPENED FOR THE LAST TWO OR THREE EPISODES !?

[@NightxKilla]

Season 1: Liked everyone, hated Tom Last season: Liked Tom, hated everyone. Talk about a literal 180

[@combatmedic3318]

LMAOO

[@zoyazuhl8708]

@Hanakosimp:) what about it

[@yearoldChineselove]

​@@zoyazuhl8708 HOOOOOOG RIDER

[@GhostFox.-.]

@Hanakosimp:) I also saw stars hair clips had the bi flag in the episode where she learns to ride a bike

[@sauceboss9797]

@Hanakosimp:) or you know, it's just a rainbow. Literally one of the main things that the character likes, especially seeing as all her crushes were boys and she went through mewberty

[@P3TALtothemetal]

The thing is.. The show never should’ve been about the ships. It should’ve been about Star growing up. Having responsibilities and character development. Not all about who would get together first. There should be ships as well bc they’re teenagers but it shouldn’t have taken over the show.

[@KarutoZoaldyeck]

Talking about development with the boyfriends pfp 💀💀

[@P3TALtothemetal]

@@KarutoZoaldyeck check again 😌

[@alli8373]

A part of growing up is having crushes and stuff sooo

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

@@alli8373 Yeah but the show was barely about anything else. Having crushes is a part of growing up but if you don't find your own personality and only focus on love that's extremely unhealthy.

[@alli8373]

@@Ich-Existiere-Nicht yes but star never did that, she was either fighting monsters or haning out with marco

[@bunny-ey2ie]

star and marco had such a sibling dynamic that it made me uncomfortable when the writers started forcing them to be romantically interested in each other. there was no build up for either of them.

[@i_dont_care_bout_your_dumb_ahh]

I shipped them since day one since they were so touchy and didn't fight...

[@BaranKamali-dx4fj]

To be fair friendship is one of the most (if not the most) important things in bounding with a person but this one seemed kinda out of nowhere.they were really like Anne and her frog friend (I don’t remember his name)

[@kawaiicat2424]

I actually thought they were great together since the first season

[@alejandrasanchez3022]

@@i_dont_care_bout_your_dumb_ahh friends can be like that too yknow?

[@i_dont_care_bout_your_dumb_ahh]

@@alejandrasanchez3022 no

[@exloster9624]

You know the romance is bad in a show, when it makes you dislike the main characters, because of how awful they end up becoming towards their significant others.

[@RowdyBoy82]

But that's how our non- magical reality works all the time.

[@Rainjojo]

Me @ Marinette

[@firevenus1873]

Me with LOK season 2, as much as I'm being supportive and happy for korrasami ,season two and its fucking horrible love triangle threw me off and I was interested more with anyone than the main cast jfc

[@eli-jah_ayon]

Miraculous ladybug in a nutshell

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@firevenus1873 i think starting with love drama in the first episodes of season one as well was also a problem.

[@Sugarpeach44]

I hated that Marco was all “I loved you since I saw you” thing because no, no he didn’t. By the almost end of the day of knowing Star he became a crazy guy yelling at people outside a convenience store.

[@SilvertheHogrider]

As a starco fan I tried every form of algebra to find a way for that statement to be true but I just can’t.

[@Hi01666]

RIGHTT, I was like didn’t he kick himself out because of her?? 😕

[@nicoleflores2054]

he even says stuff about "love at first sight" like, hOW??? MARCO LITERALLY FELT NOTHING FOR A GIRL THAT HE JUST MET- HE HAD A CRUSH ON JACKIE-

[@Dave102693]

Lmfao my brain hurts from that line alone.

[@deathgameholic]

It legit makes no sense 😭

[@althealee9375]

I think even the soul-bonding can be a friend thing. You can be someone’s absolute best friend with zero romantic feelings

[@alli8373]

Yeah but star and marco's romantic relationship for eachother grew more and more throughout the show

[@iiSwearTV]

@@alli8373and we’re present since the beginning of s2

[@SuperDestroyerFox]

@@alli8373 forcefully by the hands of the writers I guess but yeah, they did.

[@Diiv_Tiid]

​@SuperDestroyerFox well duh, the characters aren't autonomous

[@Megumi_Bandicoot]

It’s crazy how ‘Steven Universe’ became the punching bag of modern cartoons, while this show exists.

[@lucasmartinez5703]

People like to diss on how Steven Universe went about ending, but Star vs fumbled way worse.

[@Dailypeacekeeper-lm2mc]

I 1000% agree

[@WeirdWonderful]

SU has many many problems, including the fact the writers were stalling and ignoring the actually interesting plotlines and characters in favour of filler episodes focused on tertiary randos from Steven's home town having minor personal issues. Cause in a story with shapeshifting lesbian spacerocks fighting a tyrannical mutli galactic empire based around segregation and caste systems, you really want to see the main character trying to cheer up a guy who used to do improv with the local arcade owner for an entire episode instead. And in case you are wondering, that actually happened.

[@abrawolf]

​@WeirdWonderful steven universe had hella problems, but at least it had a movie and mini series to tie it up bit, unlike svtfoe. I say this as someone who was really disappointed with su and its original finale

[@leaffinite3828]

Half the su hate originates in homophobia, so

[@posermatt1293]

the thing is: the blood moon didn’t even have to be romantic. just soul bonded. best friends for life. the end

[@flapflapflapflap]

Heck they could have been "If you go down i go down too"

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

A soulmate isn't always your romantic partner it just means that they are the other part of your soul and you get along with them well, feel complete etc... They can be siblings or best friends so that actually would have made sense. Just making Star and Marco soulmates with no romance going on.

[@saram404]

literally, it's so rare to see platonic soulmates in media, why does no one write them when their dynamics are so needed..

[@somnodaur8064]

My thing is that the blood moon never felt right. Their friendship wouldn’t be real to me

[@lirey9768]

And it would've been a great way to subvert expectations, too But NOOOOOO, because no two people of the opposite gender could POSSIBLY enjoy each other's company platonically, I guess

[@geardog24]

At least Jackie wasn't the cliché bratty girl that every boy loves for no reason. She actually had a nice personality you could get along with, and hoped she would be part of the main cast.

[@nicolelouise7295]

I actually really liked Jarco, more than Starco probs bc I rarely go for obvious pairings. So sad it had to end bc of a stupid cape and that stupid blood moon.

[@uhhhhiii1807]

EXACTLY Jackie did nothing wrong yet people paint her out to be this malicious person just because she was with Marco. In actuality she had never went out her way to hurt anyone, just because star was jealous does not make it her fault

[@pascuala.]

I used to be that one person who hated her because of: "sHe gEts iN thE wAy of mY sHip!" But now i _a d o r e_ this funky chill woman 🛐

[@Gemnist98]

Honestly, she was little else beyond that though. By the time Season 3 got around, the show had already evolved to a point where Jackie just didn’t fit in any longer. Janna’s macabre hobbies contribute SOMEWHAT to the larger world and it allowed her to fit into Season 4. But Jackie? I just don’t see her having much purpose outside of the Earth landscape. All she does is be cool and skateboard, and her only goal/purpose in the series is to be with Marco. She is literally a manic pixie dream girl, and I genuinely think I’m the only person on the Internet who has this view. Again, I like Jackie, but the show was moving on to bigger and better things (specifically Season 3, not Season 4)and she just didn’t fit in any longer.

[@sungjinotes2036]

@@Gemnist98 your view makes sense to me tho i've never seen her on that perspective before 🤔

[@WeirdWonderful]

What I hate most about the Marco-Kelly situation is, they spent more than a season gradually showing them hanging out more and becoming closer friends, having shared hobbies etc. And then they take this organically developed relationship and break it off after ONE episode, so they can instead do effectively a last second hookup with Star and Marco, abandoning a relationship we got to see actually developing for one we purposefully will never get to see, because it happened right before the show ended. This is so utterly backwards to me.

[@DipperPines1986]

Ikr

[@jlwiseman98]

Even worse is Kelly and marco never acknowledged the other ever again after the fact. Like the moment they broke up they didn't just throw out their romantic relationship, but their platonic too. Kelly is injured in the finale and marco doesn't get upset or go to see her or anything, she's basically a background character. And when the finale separated all dimensions forever, including Kelly's from star and marco, neither character is really that upset about it, ESPECIALLY marco who never reacts because "he has star, so who cares? " Even tomstar and jarco ATTEMPTED to make both pairs at least friends after the splits, the show basically forgets Kelly and marco were close at all.

[@ADog5604]

I feel like Kelly and Marco should've stayed together

[@SukiNoKoe]

Kelly and Marco was the MOST random-ass, rebound thing ever; glad they barely got attention lol

[@WeirdWonderful]

@@SukiNoKoe they at least bothered setting it up, vs Star and Marco taking turns randomly being secretly in love with one another

[@NocturnalNightingale]

Marco and Kelly's relationship was the most fun for me honestly. Their arc together was learning to move on and healing from feelings that were not healthy to keep holding on to. Star and Tom might've been more focussed on two people learning how to live with each other without ending their entire relationship/friendship. Both of these would've been quite fun to explore and interesting to follow. Edit: Thinking back, Star and Tom might learn to accept that they cannot work in a romantic relationship, they work great outside of one. Leading to their relationship evolving from one of romance to one more platonic and healthy to maintain.

[@ADog5604]

Kelly and Marco made sense and they actually connected, which is the reason they should've stayed together

[@tooty123]

"And Star realizing she's a racist." THAT WAS SO OUT OF NO WHERE

[@jmpmp_505]

But is he wrong

[@Ich-Existiere-Nicht]

I love your pfp

[@TheDagger55]

@Waifu Waffen 😎

[@witchplease9695]

@@Testingthisname Racism is pathetic and pretending it’s a good thing is cringy not edgy or cool. You’re not counterculture, you’re a loser.

[@minorcomet282]

@@witchplease9695 yes, it isn't edgy or cool. its a "joke" apparently

[@CatMario100]

I know this wasn't the writers' intentions, but a big thing about this ship that rubs me the wrong way is basically the show saying "Cheating is okay if it's with your best friend."

[@exloster9624]

The way the cheating was handled really rubbed me the wrong way tbh. I didn't like starco from the beginning, as I could tell, like most others, that they would end up together in the end anyway. But the way the two just became worse and worse characters and not facing any real consequences for it? Just horrendous.

[@dolliquette]

Correction: "Cheating is okay, if it's with your [completely by mistake] soulmate."

[@TheDeathmail]

No, it wasn't viewed as okay... it was just acknowledged that they both made a mistake, regretted it and they were in a weird situation. It also didn't help that it could be considered Tom's fault because he's the one that put them 2 of them under a magic spell that made them have a hard time resisting each other...

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@TheDeathmail i mean, it's not like Star and Tom expected Marco to appear in the ball?? (hell, Star didn't knew that he was the mystery guy there) though, can't defend that he did tried on doing that to Star as a way to get her back.

[@Zharrgrim]

But it is ok

[@jolliapplegirl]

Personally, I like tomco as a ship cause their one episode together. They shared an evening together that was fun and fulfilling for both of them. When Tom got mad, he wasn't shamed by Marco but shown a way to get it off his chest without losing it. And while Marco was a bit nervous at first, they got along well when they found a common interest. It felt like an equal relationship between them

[@alli8373]

Yeah but I doubt it would have happened because the show made it seem they had a friend-emie relationship

[@ElzariusUnity]

@@alli8373 if Star came count like today, we might have.

[@Freelancer837]

Being friends means being in love now?

[@jolliapplegirl]

@@Freelancer837 Considering that Star was friends with both Tom and Marco and liked them both, that might very well be the case.

[@HexMyEnemies]

@@Freelancer837Facts I hate these type of ships like friends don’t always have to be together:/

[@imstillgreen6134]

I really felt bad for tom. He really did everything to better himself for star. I was ok with starco not being a thing because of the developments with star and tom. Then they just ruined it in the end.

[@SukiNoKoe]

Tom breaking up with Star was to show how much he had grown. I feel like people just don't get this...or they ignore it because they like Tomstar too much.

[@KanaHyoshi]

That awkward moment when you have better chemistry with your girlfriend's ex.

[@MidoriTheAwesome]

The real ship

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

What about when you have a better chemistry with the ex of your now girlfriend?

[@Msmithjonesraven]

CHOTTOO MATTHE!!!!!

[@ariberry8031]

@@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle literally what they said

[@HiAgainTheNameIsStillAyle]

@@ariberry8031 Oh, my b

[@Rainjojo]

A boy and a girl can’t be in a show as best friends without getting shipped. To me, it seemed Marco never showed interest in star, and it all felt rushed to an extent where it’s surrounded only by that one thing. (Like miraculous ladybug).

[@Lucki_MORELIKEUNLUCKI]

Well well,anime shipping is worse.

[@greenmeowstic3017]

I'm pretty happy that in WOY Sylvia and Wander were always meant to be just friends. A large portion of the fandom agrees as well. 👍

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@greenmeowstic3017 bro agreed, their chemistry feels and is platonic, they cared about each other and help each other towards their problems and insecurities. their friendship is so good and I'm glad it didn't went into a friends to lovers trope.

[@Kumorini]

@@Lucki_MORELIKEUNLUCKI Why are you bringing up anime?

[@jojonta2119]

You should watch glitchtechs. The main characters are male and female and they have one of my favorite platonic relationships I've ever seen. No romance here, just complete bros of opposite genders.

[@extremelysleepyperson]

the shipping was so insane, especially the offscreen breakups, that when i first watched the series on a streaming service i literally thought i skipped a few episodes

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Regarding relationships, the one I think went the most to waste was the Marco/Heckapoo one. It's heavily implied a relationship has developed between the two during the 30 some odd years that Marco pursued Heckapoo and her clones to earn his scissors. There's no way there's not at least somthing between them after all that time and interaction. There could have been a whole spinoff show about Marco serving as Heckapoos knight or something, and developing a relationship on their own adventures. It's also a problem that Marco should have been a completely different person after he returned home. He's had 30yrs to develop and change, but he somehow goes right back to his old self. Lastly, there's the uncomfortable fact that Marco is a 30yr old man trapped in a teenagers body who is trying to get together with a teenage girl. That causes all kinds of problems.

[@someartistontheinternetnam816]

someone finally says this. the whole “I aged 30 years in like 5 minutes” creeped me out. nobody (in the show)is going to talk about it? shouldn’t that raise an eyebrow? shouldn’t marco be getting some sort of therapy?

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@@someartistontheinternetnam816 In a better written show yes. The creator's explanation doesn't work either. She said that the longer he's back in a teenage form the more his experiences seem like a dream. Slight problem; people can remember dreams, and he'd know it wasn't one. He also keeps his combat experience from that time, meaning he hasn't forgotten anything.

[@someartistontheinternetnam816]

@@jeggsonvohees2201 yeah, it’s wack

[@alli8373]

The problem with this is that heckapoo is a whole adult while marco is barely 15

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@@alli8373 Well no, Marco is canonically over 30+yes old by the time he earns his scissors. He's more than old enough to date heckapoo.

[@panayotyanev4600]

"He was a dork who can never shoot his shot, she always did but never bothered to aim" describes this show perfectly

[@nuibaba280]

That was great

[@trypotherapy7478]

I remember feeling SO BAD for Tom. He promised to change and actually went through the effort to change, gave Marco a chance, who ended up as his best _- probably only male -_ friend. He did everything for Star, was there for support, was emotionally avaivable even though he didn't sometimes understand what was going on, and he was there to help in battle, if anyone asked him to be there- he'd be there. He didn't even get angry when he found out that Star cheated on him, even though he had every right to be! He just got more sad and confused. Instead it was Star who got angry at Tom for questioning it. _

[@natsuki7325]

Same I was so angry at star and Marco for hurting Tom like that.

[@zoeyburton2597]

Marco had other male best friends before Tom lol they just got pushed and scraped after season 1 mostly

[@makardeku]

@@zoeyburton2597 i think they said Toms first male friend

[@zoeyburton2597]

@@makardeku ohh yeah that makes sense

[@ma.2089]

It’s funny cuz I actually liked Marco’s friends that were forced into the show to make Marco not look like a friendless loser. In the end he became an asshole who abandons his old friends for his new girl friend with magic powers and then betrays his new best friend Tom.

[@wordsmith6154]

As a Star fan and a Miraculous fan, Star's whole shipping fiasco was FAR more frustrating than Miraculous and it took the writers 5 SEASONS to get Marinette and Adrien together plus there were those episodes where they dated people that weren't their crush. The positive thing I feel came out of Star was the bromance between Marco and Tom. They're just filled to the brim with true best-friends energy, like bro-best-friends energy.

[@Duskxdawnx]

Marinette doesn't deserve to date Adrian and doesn't deserve to date most people she is a terrible person

[@wordsmith6154]

@dorothyluna She’s a kid. I wouldn’t say that she's a bad person. She’s just a little over obsessed with her feelings, and, like anyone in the early stages of love/crushing, she sees him through rose tinted glasses. She takes time to learn that this isn't how you go about with your feelings for someone. She addresses this herself, I think, sometime in the middle of season four. It takes some time to get out of that state of mind, but she does.

[@bituinl]

@@wordsmith6154I don’t think about anyone, also stalking isn’t exactly normal behavior either. Although her friends did excuse her behavior which is bad T_T

[@Hi_Tobby]

​@@Duskxdawnx worse person IS Alya

[@kakeam1892]

@@Duskxdawnx FR. HE DESERVES WAY BETTER. her whole character is js obsessing n stalking Adrian. it gets WORSE cause in the movie she apparently has a tracking device set on him??? shes so creepy its insane. n this is a KIDS SHOW teaching kids its okay to have this behavior when ITS NOT.

[@maemae527]

I think having the boy/girl besties to lovers sets us up to fail. I grew up with solid friends, but I always had an issue where guys I were friends with then had a crush on me. (I’m gay so 😅) this expectation that we would end up together ruined my friendships. This idea was pushed into us all the time, it was unescapable.

[@fabi3790]

I think the friends to lovers are a ok trope you don't catch feelings immediatly. sometimes you meet a new person and over maybe years you get to know each other and than develop feelings when you are best friends. not everyone likes that and it's fine but I think it's better than seeing someone and it instantly clicks and they are so perfect. bit.. you know nothing about each other

[@AnonymousDumboOctopus]

It depends, I get how it sucked for you and tbh I also had a lot of guy friends get crushes on me that ruined our friendships, but also the BEST relationships come out of being best friends. My most solid relationship to the man I'm engaged to is my best friend! But yea as a trope it is overused and I was pleasantly surprised at first when Marco rejected Star for Jackie and Star (seemingly) moved on.

[@taesp2484]

ew

[@catscanhavelittleasalami]

I'm the same. I dislike the ''close besties falling in love with each other'' trope since they always end up losing all chemistry as soon as they become romantic partners.

[@alli8373]

Yes but star and marco were themselves around eachother and they liked being by eachother and it developed their crush in eachother

[@JetblackJay]

I enjoyed the Marco ships except starco Star could've been single yet defying the plot they ship for no reason

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

I ship Tom with everyone except Star

[@Namato360]

@@doraeguyakaneddie6586 Exactly.

[@toadlord8594]

Yeah I’m a newbie to the series but I’m still shipping Tom x Marco.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@MarcelineTheStar I don't mean it literally.

[@gemevelyn2660]

I shipped Starco until after Jackie ship. Then I shipped Kellco but then we all know the disrespect.

[@GippyHappy]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the entire reason for all this shipping drama was because the actual writers couldn't agree on who should be together and were having a shipping war behind the scenes

[@lukeseykora7417]

WAIT WHAT

[@itzrainy_outside4450]

Wait is that actually true? How the hell did that happen?!

[@cuddlecakes7153]

If what you have told me is true, you will have gained my trust

[@attorney_rosa]

example: ATLA 😂

[@red-pet-dead]

That somehow makes the show better

[@puppetpawss]

Honestly, what would've sold it for me is if they kept Star and Marco as just friends. As well as in general, just kept Star out of a relationship. Star has displayed so many times that she's just too immature to actually handle the idea of romance. And while that would be fine since she's still a kid, the issue is that it makes her come off as unreliable, kind of a wet blanket, and it makes you feel bad for the characters she initiates a relationship with because they have to receive the back end of her belt of assholery. Like, the show seriously couldn't have expected that we would be totally fine and agree with STAR after she got angry at Tom because he called her out for basically cheating on him, and the only person he heard it from was the guy she cheated with. They couldn't seriously think we'd be okay with that, right?

[@jlwiseman98]

The thing is, even if they did intend for us to disagree with star, she never apologies or improves from these issues, so it comes off like the show either doesn't think she did anything actually wrong, or that it thinks dating marco somehow fixes these issues with her character. Which is horribly wrong either way. If star can't improve from her previous relationships, then why would we want her to date marco? And why does the show think we should want that....

[@McCraeTheMediaLover]

@@jlwiseman98 Another thing horribly wrong is that "Why didn't Star get therapy like Tom Lucitor that would've made her learn from her own mistakes and open up about her issues or how come anyone hardly called out Star out on her flaws and mistakes more in a realistic,severely angry way and forced her to go back and fix her mistakes".

[@memorystorage970]

I shipped Starco before, their dynamic was awesome. I love best friends/ partner in crimes but also couples/ friends falling in love trope cuz there is less shyness and oaths of love and more of corny jokes and whacky dates together, the interactions r more fun as dorky events bring them closer. So I got really sad when Jackie and Marco started dating. Then I realized their chemistry was not half bad and I got torn apart between Jarco and Starco. But Starco went downhill when I started to see Star getting all sad and jealous.....I was like 'girl maybe it is time to give up and look another boy?' There were many instances that were SO EMBARASSING and even the bestfriend dynamic was falling apart.. Heck other ships, all of them mentioned in this video were more interesting than Starco...it was being forced upon and Tom. Oh my gosh. Even I m surprised at how I came to love Tom. In the beginning he wasn't really likeable (I do have a soft spot for bad boys but Marco seemed soo much better back then so I could care less about Tom who had anger issues and possessive. It was comedy relief at best) BUT OH WOW. The character development was one of the best!!! He made an effort to change. He was so nicely fleshed out! I am still crushing on him so hard. All the things, the efforts he did for Star...she didn't deserve any of it I wanted Tom to be happy

[@emi0404]

i COMPLETELY agree, the whole ending was just so forced and it felt like they were just trying to cater to what the audience wanted, not focusing on the details of anything else

[@aVoice_art]

I really wish that they just had a sibling like relationship-

[@ginthemaid112]

Honestly I felt really weird that they started liking each other in that regard :/

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

Jack and Ashi

[@oatmeal8524]

SAME😭🤚

[@zombies4evadude24]

They did for the most part in the first season, but the moment when Star started sniffing Marco’s jacket like a cocaine addict but for lust… was when they were at the point of no return for her.

[@ayogothitbyabuss6009]

Seriously I only watched this cuz my friend said so I hated it it’s trying so hard to be original but it’s just a gravity falls remake

[@mookie1151]

I remember loving how Marco and Star WERE ONLY FRIENDS with their own crushes on others.I thought it was unique so they flushed it down the toilet of course.

[@Office_chair]

Yeah I liked it better to because it was more different and it wasn't a stereotype plot of "boy MC girl MC they're going to date"

[@whizz_0711]

This is the reason why I’m very wary of watching shows with a male and female lead

[@juliamcw338]

@@whizz_0711 The only thing that can save it is if the male and female leads are siblings or related in some other way. You know damn well that if Mabel and Dipper weren't brother and sister that it would be a very different story.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@juliamcw338 dang, unfortunately that still don't stop some people for shipping them.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@whizz_0711 there are shows who haves a main friendship between a female and a male protagonist, one example is Wander over Yonder.

[@genaculver56]

When I first watched the show I was incredibly obsessed with Starco, but after revisiting it I could understand why some people didn’t like it. It was definitely forced at times. While I still like Starco I can’t help but also like Tomstar and Tomco. Or just Tom in general.

[@suckmynuts1234]

I hate Starco, and i think if they forced it more they can explode. Man it just ruinned the show, they had such a cutie friendship, and i think it could happend in a more natural way if they made them fall in love step for step starting in Season 2 or even in season 1, but they FORCEDO SO BAD Everytime i watch them together i felt uncomfortable. And I DON'T EVEN NEED TO TALK ABOUT TOM He had such a good development as a character and he didn't deserved that all😢😢😢

[@-cat_in_space-]

we stan tom

[@HexMyEnemies]

Tom was king

[@ariannebrodeur]

Yeah back when it was airing I hated Tomstar with a passion and was fine with Starco and understood it as the end goal from the beginning. But looking back I'm sure I'd be okay with Tomstar if I watched the whole series again but those two still feel the least compatible romantically to me. Literally Tomco has more chemistry than either lad with Star lmao

[@jlwiseman98]

Something worth mentioning is the reason daron didnt just....make starco happen earlier so they dated onscreen is because she thought, and i quote, it would of been "too boring". Yes, she actually said that. Look, im not an expert, but if you think your main couple is more interesting when they're not together then when they’re together.....then maybe they aren’t a good couple to match up. Jarco, tomstar, and kellco, were definitely not boring to watch, its not hard to write a compelling relationship onscreen, so all im hearing is starco was just uninteresting in comparison.

[@superaarthi]

I don't think that's exactly what she meant? The "too boring" part likely isn't about *Star and Marco* but about *any end-game couple*. I'm not sure I agree with this, but there are definitely folk who see the push and pull of will-they/won't-they and speculating about which couple will end up together as more interesting than showing your hand about the happily ever after.

[@jlwiseman98]

@superaarthi I wasn't exactly saying star and marco themselves were the boring part. However, if the creator themselves doesn't think they're interesting as an active couple compared to what they went with despite having no problem with the other couples....it sounds like they lacked ideas to keep them interesting without the will they won't they and that's kinda a problem.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

What angers me so much is how they absolutely abandoned Ludo after giving him roughly _half_ a redemption arc. I was so excited to see that lil' kappa grow to confront his crap family and become a genuine leader for his people, but it just kinda... never happened?

[@jewelsb4926]

FOR REAL I was like “oh.. where tf is Ludo he was fun :(“

[@nicoleflores2054]

I literally even forgot that he ever existed for the lack of screentime he begin to have, what the hell.

[@youthoughtiwasjotarobutitw8642]

Ludo When I read that I was like"who is the guy? Sound familiar" and then you said "kappa" I was like Ohhhh that guy *Sad*

[@KALLIRAA]

For real all of the build up for it to get dumped in the trash

[@Grim_sights]

Honestly I feel like they built him up on a weak structure. He had a really cool and intense arc, but it was being worked on a flimsy basic villain arc, and I feel like if they actually tried they could have made his beginning arc easier and better to work with.

[@zhanalovespepsi]

The fact that I love the "friends to lovers" trope and yet still HATED starco as a ship ESPECIALLY how they got together really says a lot of things.

[@jacquelinelugo5518]

It really does, I also love the friends to lovers trope but no that ship was a hot mess. I honestly did not want them together by season 3

[@bigguy8435]

It seems we can't have good things, my friend

[@mizumafusotrue]

I still remember loving (S1 to S2) to just liking Starco (S3) until... Season 4 happened, god it was a mess... Also I have a fondness with the friends to lovers trope, though it depends on the pairing and so forth.

[@luiscoa9991]

that you like ships means that you have innocence in love, you have to accept that love is not perfect but the ships are complicating this

[@norizamohamedsufian5931]

It didn’t pay attention to the actual story, that’s the prob.

[@erikahawks5063]

I personally would’ve loved a season all about Marco trying to get dimensional scissors, fighting heckapoo and whatnot

[@ST4R.111]

12:49 you can hear the pure heartbreak in Toms voice here

[@cwanimations]

“If you can’t write her to be interesting, you can always just make her gay.” *best line of 2021*

[@b.h.4249]

Poor Asami deserved better. I do like her ending up with Korra, though.

[@Dave102693]

He’s not lying tho, and it worked. Lol

[@ExeErdna]

It's true, that's the easy way out

[@ExeErdna]

@@b.h.4249 Korra felt like leftovers even though people shipped them from S1.

[@b.h.4249]

@@ExeErdna Why did Korra feel like leftovers to you? Just because Asami dated one guy before her? It was very late in the finale but that's nothing new for such a show and Nickelodeon censorship didn't allow for anything else.

[@tinkeroni]

I find it quite funny that Tom the character we're supposed to hate in the first seasons is the best character in the entire series.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

You gotta love genuine character development.

[@ajgameguy3674]

Both him and Eclipsa.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

He also was based on the show creator's exes.... Uh oh.

[@DeathKitta]

When the creator write a character based on her bad exes and accidentally makes him develop into good character. And writing the love interest based on her husband and accidentally makes him develop into bad character.

[@marinikaye]

This is unrelated to the topic but I love your brunhilde pfp ☺️

[@olegoleg258]

I'll be honest, I wish for a plotline that's probably not light-hearted enough for this show, where basically one of the two realizes that the reason why they're drawn to each other is because of the blood moon and not because of their own choice or feelings and that they have to deal with the circumstance and decision of whether they try to be together and be happy but because of some other entity, or try and break free, yet being very unhappy in the process and possibly removing a happy future - as now they might not love each other anymore. Seeing the struggle from the nerdy, awkward thinker and the usually go lucky feeler each dealing with it in a different way and seeing what they think would in my opinion be awesome

[@tabledrawzz801]

Oh yea that's such a good idea

[@queso5146]

Fanfic Time

[@Mehluvno]

Tom was such a good guy who had problems in the beginning, but he put in so much effort for star and star just never saw how much he did for her. He did and gave everything and her problem was with his anger management?! (Which is valid) but I’m this situation it just seemed like she only saw the bad in Tom, that’s why he was Villainized in the 1st season so much cause we only saw her perspective. But after getting to know Tom as a character I really feel for him cause he was willing to die for star, even just for her happiness. Tom was heavily betrayed by both star and Marco but still stayed friends with both of them. It hurt so much that he didn’t want to be around them, but he still was the few when they needed him. He loved her so much he was willing to loose her for her happiness even tho she betrayed him. He was so understanding with them both just for him to be right the whole time. I personally think star should have stayed with Tom. But In a lot of ways I think she miss treated Tom and she just couldn’t appreciate what she had with him

[@lincolnjohn8227]

"He can't because Tomco is a thing!" I little Freudian slip there 😏

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

Me who shipped Tomstar, (also JanTom) but only for the times they weren't toxic to each other: 🕴🏻😅

[@SarcasticChorus]

Maybe just a little. Also Tomstar is just an infinitely worse sounding name.

[@G.F.SF55]

Wha- I missed that part! XD can you put the timestamp please?

[@CheckeredCardz]

@@G.F.SF55 9:29 somewhere around here

[@reasyrandom]

I mean, even their voice actors ship it.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

When I first saw it, I had desperately hoped the Bloodmoon Ball was an intentional metaphor for male and female deuteragonists being FORCED into loving one another by the end of the show. They could have used the whole soul-bond "you are destined to be together whether you like it or not" thing as a sentient curse, which they'd have to fight against to remain friends. Imagine the pair confronting an entity born from the Bloodmoon moment, demanding they HAD to be a couple. An excellent criticism of the trope, the fans who force their ships on others, and the societal expectation that men and women can never just be friends.

[@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth]

"YOU WILL BE TOGETHER FOREVER. YOUR FRIENDS, YOUR REALITY, YOUR PERSONALITY, I DO NOT CARE WHAT I MUST BREAK TO MAKE IT SO."

[@shinysoda6]

@@PotatoPatatoVonSpudsworth That actually would have been a good message to teach to young kids. Most kids don't realize that there is no need to get all angry over some dumb FICTIONAL ship so this would have been a good way to show that all ships can be good ones! Even if they aren't cannon. But no instead we got the most generic wattpad fan fiction in existence.

[@Thesmus]

this too, like that would have been an amazing plot.

[@segundovargas]

My thoughts exactly. This could've been the ultimate middle finger to the "if the leads are male and female who are friends, they MUST fall for each other" trope.

[@lumpyclouds9446]

When your educated:

[@ddbob1]

I hated starco. I loved tomstar, tomco, jarco, and kelco. Literally every other ship. They made more sense than the canon one. I will never get over Tom and star breaking up...never lol.

[@Lej_arts_99]

Lol I got over it by shipping jana and tom they both just deserved better 😭

[@austincha8006]

the mha fandom could use this as a lesson to learn from and improve as a fandom by not sending death threats to the creator or others over their pointless ships.

[@huntercool2232]

OG Fan Shippers: “Well, we got what we wanted.. But at what cost?”

[@blankblank8424]

Quality

[@micaelaproano6128]

"Did you do it?" "Yes." "And what did it cost?" "The shows quality."

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@micaelaproano6128 oof

[@lulumoonish]

@@micaelaproano6128 yea I’ve watched this show for a long time and was disappointed- ;-;

[@ikimiyu]

damyum

[@foxlikessapphics]

Not to be rude to Daron Nefcy, but she's straight up admitted that Star and Marco are her self-insert characters to represent her and her husband. That explains why all of the great plot points and lore were pushed to the side in favor of pushing Starco at every corner.

[@viviangarcia5696]

She shouldnt have create the characters if she was going to be possessive over the character development. The moment she revealed marco and star were self reflection of her and her husband, i should have known this show was more of a self indulged for her than a creation for an audience. It revealed her possessive and insecure nature of her characters especially marco who she see her husband. I dont think it was the right desision or healthy to think star and marco as her real life relationship because the moment the characters are put in a setting or event that contradict her main view, she adds plot devices to remind you that this is the final end couple so don't try to go out of the norm. If star represent her, there is no way marco is ending up with anyone than with her, nor letting the characters just be in a platonic friendship. Yeah, there been shows where the creator put themselves in their shows at time, but i haven't seen a creator put so much of themselves in a character where in the end creates a strict one sided mindset over what the characters relationship and life should be in expense of their character development.

[@xblade149]

I mean she can still self insert but still develop them

[@nicoleflores2054]

yet, that doesn't cover how bad the writing was, Alex Hirsch and his twin sister are basically Dipper and Mabel Aka. self inserts but he actually managed to give them personalities and important roles in the story, along with actual development. even if Star and Marco were self inserts, they could've give them real chemistry and better ways to make them canon

[@adachiandmarie6024]

Damn her husband must've been slamming that poon

[@TopHatMacadamia]

So what your saying is. They were a Tumblr OC.

[@heldon7951]

3:24 this is SUCH a good sentence

[@beckwells25]

Okay but, complete tangent over here, can you imagine if there WAS a subversion from Blood Moon Ball? A whole 'I seem to have accidentally tripped into being soulmates with my best friend that I have zero romantic feelings for' thing that turned out LEGIT platonic? That would make the whole undoing of the curse so much more satisfying man

[@Moonstar79]

*Daron Nefcy:* “Tom is the amalgamation of all my ex boyfriends and he’s meant to be unlikeable.” *Tom: is the most likeable character in the show by S3*

[@iancortescontreras6084]

when the ex is better than the actual boyfriend

[@hxddenprson9791]

Indeed he was the only character I actually enjoyed watching in the whole show

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

It really says something about Nefcy and all of her past relationships. It makes me question if she was the bad one in the relationship.

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Also Nefcy based Star and Marco's relationship on her and her husband..... Let that sink in for a little bit.

[@chomosuke0720]

Really makes you wonder who was the real problem in her relationships lol

[@mofthemoth5755]

Hot take: Tomco was better and had more chemistry than Starco during season 4-

[@fureall7232]

I AGREE. Star and Marco should’ve been besties or PLATONIC soulmates

[@remwifeyy]

YEAH

[@TripleM24]

This aint even a hot take tbh

[@blizyon30fps86]

That’s a popular take, I don’t even ship that yet I can agree that it would have been written better than Starco 100%

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

It’s so true

[@joshuagarcia7488]

What they did to Jackie was criminal...

[@naomithelazyteenager5712]

They did my girl dirty 😭

[@joshuagarcia7488]

@naomithelazyteenager5712 facts, dude.. I just got done with the show in the weekend, as I started it last week. I RARELY get invested in ships(when I do I only go for ones that make sense and are actually canon established). The last time I was this invested in a ship was Rick and Jessie in The Walking Dead. Marco saying he had feelings for Star since the beginning and that the Blood Moon Curse was baloney was CAP... The Box of Truth and The Naysaya episodes in season 2 both confirmed he had feelings for Jackie since the beginning, not Star. So those two episodes debunk what was said in the final season. Marco seeing the blood moon when he kissed Jackie, showed the curse had a direct influence in both the break up(which really saddened me had to stay the whole night coping.. lol) and the developing relationship with Star. Which I couldn't get behind not only cause I preferred Jackie for Marco, but because their relationship was directly influenced by a magical curse. They weren't naturally developed feelings like Marco had with Jackie since kindergarten.

[@naomithelazyteenager5712]

@@joshuagarcia7488 exactly! It was súper forced. I personally never shipped Star and Marco, i just never got the romantic vibes, and both characters had crushes on other people. But sadly i kinds expected to happen, cause they are a boy and a girl and the fandom loved Starco so...

[@InsanityVirus]

I swear, I was with you in the whole "thinking they'll subvert expectations thing." Like "Oh they'll like each other for a bit, but maybe come to realize they work better as friends then a couple!" (Like many friends and best friends do, as it's easy to catch feelings, but many times they can be fleeting or just a "they're attractive and cool is all" thing) But no, I was wrong, and I was ready for the usual "will they won't they" thing. But oh my God, did they take it to a WHOLE NEW ASS LEVEL of dumpster fire, I don't think anyone can beat Starco besides maybe the fucking wars that happened back when Digimon was a thing lmao

[@Ballerinamonet]

Tom and Marco had more chemistry than any other ship in this show

[@arellajardin8188]

Legit. After the way Star treated everyone in season 4, and Kellco just… stopped. I looked at who was left, and Tomco felt like the most natural, sincere pairing.

[@jamalhartley5863]

Like that relationship had a whole arc to be honest! It was seen even in the first season when Tom made an effort to befriend Marco and they briefly got along great.

[@mirkohoble]

@@arellajardin8188 agreed, but Starco... just no.

[@cuppat7309]

Laughs in 'Ponyhead & Marco'

[@MeltingMellons]

@@cuppat7309 😳

[@sarabeatriz5569]

Tom was one of the only characters I cared about and seeing him being used only to make starco happen broke my heart and I'll never get over it

[@Giovapoof]

Ok

[@jadamccalister5128]

SAME

[@nicoleflores2054]

same

[@lemonadedrink5607]

Same

[@nicolerousseau3694]

I feel exactly the same

[@pankreas2195]

I was in the starco fandom on tumblr and let me tell you it was the wildest fandom I've ever been a part of (and I'm in the Miraculous fandom) Edit: I was also a Tomco and a Jarco shipper lol we just shipped Marco with everyone and there was also the whole trans princess turdina subplot and I'm pretty sure there also was a Kelly and Marco ship and even Janco was a thing and there was a Starco daughter...?? seriously, it was wild. Edit 2 as I'm approaching the end of the video: I COMPLETELY FORGOT KELLCO CANONICALY HAPPENNED And yeah I agree the blood moon plot was terribly executed.

[@noratheweeb9387]

Oh GODS I loved Kelly so much. XD She was so adorable and had my heart IMMEDIATELY. They would’ve been so fucking cute together. And it is SUCH bullshit they broke them up between episodes. Literally, this alone is proof enough the show was ruined by shipping.

[@thatcartoonfan2502]

As someone who shipped Starco HARD, the way it happened was terrible. Instead of making Starco canon early on or putting all the shipping stuff in the background, they put all the shipping shit at the front and needlessly dragged out Starco for 4 seasons. I actually LOVE best friends to lovers, but absolutely HATE will they, won't they, so Starco being endlessly dragged out really bugged me. If Starco happened at the end of the 1st or 2nd season, then we most likely wouldn't have had all of the problems that happened in seasons 3 and 4.

[@stevi6044]

I thought everything was good there up to S3, but throwing jackie to the curb just to have ANOTHER love triangle turned me into a schizo of a shipper

[@notmitsukiyolol]

I left the show when it was that episode where Star unleashed her Butterfly powers, what happened to make it into a dumpster fire?

[@ladynoire8339]

I know how you feel

[@stevi6044]

@@notmitsukiyolol The biggest problem was the excessive romance drama, as the video points out. That alone degraded the characters and ate up much of the runtime after Battle for Mewni. Past that, Mewni as a setting was unbearably boring, the main plot got worse over time (mina loveberry was the S4 antagonist for some reason???), then the finale's "subversion" of magic being evil and Star deciding to destroy it was given so little care half the fandom thinks she did multi-dimensional scale genocide. Besides the soundtrack, I've come to detest pretty much everything about the show by the end.

[@jjtjp2469]

It's really sad and hilarious how desperately the writers behind the show wanted Starco so bad, but the show honestly proves that both Star and Marco shared better romantic chemistry with everybody other then each other.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

I feel like Star shouldn't have ended up with anyone TBH. It's clear that Star (Mostly her season 3 and 4 version ) is to emotionally immature for a relationship Side note: Isn't it weird how Star is basically a different character each season?

[@Namato360]

She's terrible. She committed genocide, and she literally was annoying in every relationship.

[@Namato360]

SHE IS. First season, she was wild and kinda evil. 2nd season, she was more mature, but jealous. 3rd season she was alot more fine, and 4th season, SHE WENT BATSHIT CRAZY AND IRRATIONAL.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@Namato360 Like my brain has trouble with the fact that her season 1 and season 2 version are the same character.

[@icecreamhero2375]

@@doraeguyakaneddie6586 Well 1 and 2 made sense to me. In season 1 she was a fish out of water and didn't know what it was like to be on earth. But going into season two she eased up and got less crazy.

[@Rosemont104]

According to the show's second tie-in book, her behavior in the first season was an act meant to appease Marco, making her later personality her "real" one. That reeks of clumsy ret-con, tho.

[@drahrenzy]

I feel like it wasn't a bad thing that they always planned for Marco and Star to get together eventually, but I think it wasn't supposed to be the main plot of the last season which is why it ended up being poorly executed. If they had another season, maybe we could've gotten a better season 4 since the writers wouldn't feel the need to put a spotlight on characters that they eventually planned bigger things for (at least not yet). Maybe Daron Nefcy, somewhere in between the show, thought that she would have more time to work on the SVTFOE since it was doing so well despite being informed that the show was likely to last only for 4 seasons. I didn't think the last season was terrible, but it wasn't on the level of what I expected from the show. The more I think about it, they probably could've delivered a better final season if the plot focused less on the ships and more on the Queens of Mewni and how their prejudice against monsters came about.

[@parasitone0814]

I discovered your channel because of this video, and it totally feels like "relationship decadence" the show, and I love this format and how funny it is to watch

[@KavinCatastrophe]

When i saw all that Shipping thing Going on last Season i was like "Remember when this show had a Plot. Different Dimensions, Great Villain(Toffee), and learning about the Butterfly Family." I missed Those Days. But i guess watching Marco Cycle through Different Girls was Just to Important.

[@Mia-sl6vb]

Ugh, Toffee...they butchered my boi so badly 😭😭😭 (And what the hell was that "SUPRISE" as his last appearance.)

[@Ame865]

I don’t remember too much from the show sense I watched it years ago but I think it was so out of the blue to make them them date each other when they don’t even seem like they had feelings with each other for most of the series. I wish Jackie and Marco stayed together they had good chemistry

[@KavinCatastrophe]

@@Mia-sl6vb I know right. Star: Toffee was Right we need to Destroy All the Magic. Im Pretty sure he wanted to Specfically Destroy the Butterfly Family Magic because you guys was To OP. NOT DESTROY ALL MAGIC IN THE MULTIVERSE! That was such a Lame way to Squeeze Toffee in One Last Time.

[@Dave102693]

@@Ame865 agreed. They had to break them up just so Starco could happen. Lol

[@steampunkemo9211]

Yeah, the ship between Marco and star ruined the show for me. I liked it when they were friends because it was such a break from every girl and boy in shows getting together.

[@cindyxoxo3738]

I feel like Marco really toyed with Jackie, Kelly, and Heckapoo’s feelings. They deserved better.

[@thehipsterhamster1929]

Wait Heckapoo and marco where a thing? When did I miss that? Fuck

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

@@thehipsterhamster1929 he spent 16 years in another dimension chasing after her

[@mooncake387]

thats literally life, many of us toy with other peoples feelings because we cant get with the people we love, and when we do we break up with them..its shitty but its life

[@zombies4evadude24]

And Star really messed up Kelly & Jackie’s relationships, as well as her own with Tom. Point being: Both of the main protagonists morphed into the most unlikable characters by the end, which is sad.

[@papyrussupremacy]

@@thehipsterhamster1929 technically yes he chased after her for like 20 years or something in another dimension it was very weird

[@SilverTune]

Yeah I preferred Kelly and Marco, my friend criticizes them as just being rebounds and that’s not healthy, but I think their dynamic was entertaining and yes it was a rebound couple but I think they were definitely into each other in a more genuine way And in season 3 and 4 I think Tom and star actually was getting to be a pretty healthy relationship, not considering marco’s existence, Tom was changing and growing and you’re right, star and Tom were entertaining together My two cents

[@sadracklimon2999]

Your friend is right. #Starco4Life

[@SukiNoKoe]

Kelly and Marco just started hanging out because they were both lonely. NOT a good reason to start a romance...just awful, tbh

[@fnaf6491]

Tom should have gotten with someone (cough cough Janna cough) after all the sh*t he been through with Star

[@Lej_arts_99]

Oml fr they had some great bonding moments they are one of my fav ships mostly because of the fan fic Tom vs jannanagins it was so good and It fit so well with the story

[@Peacock__]

Toffee should have came back as his return legit was one of the only things that kept me going in season 4 even if the shipping was absolute tripe

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

SURPRISE!

[@Peacock__]

@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 It was a surprise to see barely any of the most threatening villain in the show in the last season

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

@Peacock I was referring to that one line Toffee said in both the Season 1 finale and the Season 4 semi-finale.

[@Peacock__]

@@ultrairrelevantnobody1862 i know, my lizard is literally named after the character lol

[@robbywilliamson4152]

They also could have brought in Seth of Septarsis, or Eclipsa and Globgor could have been villains. Another option might have been to have be corrupted by magic/his monster arm. Just about anything would have been better than Mina Loveberry as the endgame antagonist.

[@RandoSando.]

"Has shipping ever ruined a show?" Me: *remembers when klance shippers threatened the studio that makes vld to make klance canon or else they'll release spoilers illegally taken during a tour* Edit: in response to the threats, the studio decided to make none of the popular ships canon, rushed the last two seasons intentionally, killed off a main character, threw character arcs and development out of the window, basically killed the show with an awful ending because they were sick of the fans. All because some toxic fans wanted a ship canon and thought they were hot shit.

[@onetrickponysona2613]

remembers glee

[@Dave102693]

Season 4 and 5 of She Ra.

[@Hanmacx]

Wasn't the Author of My Hero academia harassed to make the main characters gay?

[@camoking3609]

This is why shippers scare me

[@scarletsage6267]

@@Hanmacx While he did say he was thinking about it for a while but the shippers did do threats and stuff to make Deku x Bakugou,Kirishima X Bakugou to happen

[@maemae527]

Can’t believe this show got more running time than Owl House.

[@mdtisthebest6249]

I mean owl house isn’t good either

[@sadracklimon2999]

I always feel better about my life when someone brings this up

[@screaming_cat_]

I did not expect to get a video about this show on my recommended. Was absolute fire. This was one of my top 5 childhood shows.

[@stellar_nathy6679]

the biggest plot twist that this show could throw us (and that would solve the shipping problems) is making Marco and Tom dance during the blood moon dance

[@eadyzrx322]

That'd be funny. At least those two were interesting when they were together rather than starco losing the actual personality of the duo

[@gummilatte1618]

Legit there’s fics about that and they’re better then the actual blood moon episode

[@nicoleflores2054]

i mean, that could've a really interesting plot twist, think about it, a demon guy trying to impress his ex in a ball while her best friend is trying him to get away from her, accidentally dancing together? knowing their dynamic in season one, those two would've had the development of becoming friends like season two had, along with starting a mutual bonding towards each other.

[@user-sf7yn8ud9i]

@@nicoleflores2054 Yeah. It would've been more interesting tbh.

[@nicoleflores2054]

@@user-sf7yn8ud9i true

[@er7ic77]

The "Running with Scissors" episode should have changed Marcos' personality arc forever. After that episode he was 30 years old. He lived over half of his life doing dangerous magical quests. How and why would someone who had lived that life suddenly go back to the his "old teenage self"? With the same wants, needs and desires? During the time he was "gone", he should/would have had "adult life experiences". In the S4 Adult Marco episode "Ransomgram” we meet a warrior woman named Brunzetta. It is implied that they "quested" together. His personality should not have reverted to "classic teenage" Marco. This should have been the starting point for a more mature Marco. Going forward he should only see Star as more like a "little sister" than as a romantic attraction.

[@testerwulf3357]

Actually, reverting back to his old self is pretty standard.. Anyone who's had a dream where they lived through another life tends to bounce back to their old self (which what he went through is similar). I myself had a dream like it! I dreamt I was a cannibalistic man, went from birth like 60+ as him. When I woke up I couldn't remember who I was as to me I'd just lived 60+ years as someone else..After like 5 hours I was able to remember to my real life and bounced back to my old personality and stuff easily. I have the same needs, wants, and desires of someone my age, it's not that complicated. I lived another life LONGER than he did and am still my old self, so I think he can manage. I see people my age as people my age and am still attracted to people my age..I just left that dream in the past. Also had a friend who dreamt they lived the life of a person who eventually died in war, they didn't act any different and saw kids their age as attractive as well.

[@danmakes2497]

@@testerwulf3357 Except with Marco it wasn't a dream, and he LIVED through it; he should have been an adult mind stuck with a teenage body from then on.

[@zero1zerolast393]

@@testerwulf3357 no. We don't remember our dreams to well, like at all. They are not stored in our long term memories. A better example is people who had fake lives in comas. Most people who wake up from those lives often times become depress, because there whole lives imploded before them. It's not a pretty thing to see or read about

[@Case2_0]

@@danmakes2497 our minds can do weird things

[@Case2_0]

@@zero1zerolast393 and then there was that guy who spoke only English, went into a coma, and woke up fluent in only French.

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

I was initially into StarCo, but then Marco x Hekapoo happened and kind of wished that had been ending relationship for Marco. They balanced each other out in an interesting way and they both have that being both young and old at the same time thing going on.

[@tjjordan4207]

It sucks that the show fell into the shipping war and decided to make Marco and Star a couple. I was happy to watch a show that (seemingly) was going with a sibling relationship as opposed to a romance. It worked very well in the beginning. Although I’ve only seen the first 2 seasons and the movie, I’ve watched videos that explain how the rest of the series goes and it’s shocking how different the 2nd half is when compared to the first half. The first two seasons were a lot of fun, reminding me a lot of my childhood days with other shows. But the 2nd half feels like it was made by different people. Even the animation is different. It became less fun and more soap opera FanFiction.

[@WhiscashGirl]

I never get tired of hearing people ripping on SVTFOE’s ending/last season so this was very satisfying lol. I wasn’t super invested in any ship, but I always hoped from the beginning that Star and Marco would stay just friends bc it’s still depressingly rare to see the male and female lead in media *not* get together. But I could have been fine with Starco if it had been written well and not…what we got, which threw so much more likeable and believable characters and relationships under the bus - especially Tom who imo had some of the best character development on the show (he and Eclipsa were the only ones I cared about by the end), but it felt like he, Jackie and Kelly never got the chance to be cool characters in their own right once they weren’t needed for relationship drama. This show made so many bizarre writing choices, it’s a shame it’s now mostly remembered for the horrible ending bc the first few seasons were really cute and fun.

[@jellytabby2135]

ikr?? tom worked so hard and it was so painful to see him getting thrown under the bus like that in the show

[@Poison_AppleXx]

Tom really tried and it always makes me sad to see how they kinda threw him aside after his relationship drama bit. He was always my favourite character, such good development and character yet such poor writing. They could EASILY have involved him more.

[@yurimartins1455]

I have to confess, I was happy when he and star broke up, but Man, he's such a cool character, seeing how he was in the beginning of the show vs the end, is very impressive, but idk, I don't like the chemical between the two

[@Poison_AppleXx]

@@yurimartins1455 I liked when they broke up as well. It also helped to show development. I’d never have wanted them to be together in the end, it just sucks that Tom was used basically _only_ for relationship drama.

[@yurimartins1455]

@@Poison_AppleXx yeah man, me too, like, if they did, was going to be so much worse, cause, they did all this show: "I like you Marco" - "but I'm with Jackie" "I don't like Jackie anymore I'm going to mewni" and in the end they keep separate, if this was going to happen, was better they just be friends the whole show

[@jackhummer8344]

You know, looking back at how Star vs handled its shipping makes me even more grateful for how The Owl House handled Lumity. Unlike Starco, we actually get to see the relationship between Amity and Luz while they're dating. No red herring love interests, no padding to keep them from getting together, no last minute hook-ups. EDIT: Woah, I was not expecting so many likes or replies...

[@ThatGFFAN]

Plus it actually may even help move the plot going on and play a factor in how the story ends.

[@oriana1125]

@@ThatGFFAN what I like about it is that the show didn't just focus on that after they started dating, yeah they started being more intimate with each other but it wasn't anything like "now our show is only about this relationship. Also lesbian and bi representation is always welcome when it's done correctly

[@im.claire]

So true!! I love the owl house and lumity ❤️

[@simplyepic3258]

Yep, they decided they wouldn’t have long term relationship drama, and it paid off. Not only is there not canonical relationship roulette, but there also aren’t really any competing fan ships. Star vs had way too many fan ships and that became a problem too outside of the canonical ships. Marco was shipped with pretty much every person he ever interacted with over the course of the show. The Owl House doesn’t really have any of that going on.

[@nicoleflores2054]

Lumity seems also have what Starco didn't have, character development, Luz and Amity are growing as people about their problems and insecurities together, which the more they work towards each other, the more chemistry they had.

[@emmahenni210]

Tbh I preferred when Star and Marco were just friends (the finale broke me btw) and Tom and Star should've been together and they shouldn't have destroyed the magic, TOMSTAR SHOULD'VE STAYED! Also when the shipping started I was inlove with it!

[@ibelikethis4618]

Fr

[@TheMenacingMenace]

Even when I was younger I figured Marco's relationships were weird. This magnifies it.

[@gaychelthereader373]

Fun fact of the day: I know how much pretty much every Shipper who wanted anything other then Starco as a finally hated it, but you know what’s worse? I know a few people who shipped Starco, AND THEY ARE MAD TOO- that shows just how bad this execution of the ship was. Because not only the people who didn’t like the ship weren’t happy, The people who were ACTUALLY SUPPORTING THE SHIP didn’t like the ending either. That is a big red flag for: You messed up badly

[@jihogariando911]

Huh i wonder if people still want the starco ship or im the only one who still loves it also i realize how shipping could really get out of hand ik almost every ship is is out of hand like gay shipping but i didnt know there could be more worse than gay shipping

[@DamenJEver]

I shipped them hard but in the end it was just so rushed that once the happy feeling left it was just a big fat space of meh. I felt like if they had gotten more seasons and built their way there then it could have been really really good but now it was just so fast that you can't really enjoy it when you re-watch it

[@LillyFilly4272]

Starco fan! Hated what they did. The character assasinations were awful and Kelly, Tom, and Jackie deserve better

[@xrrgr]

@@jihogariando911 gay shipping isn’t bad or out of hand….

[@aramaty1711]

No one said it was bad but it does get out of hand example: my hero academia

[@evanluck1229]

This makes Mordecai's relationship troubles seem healthy.

[@RandomSkyeRoses]

Mordecai had anxiety and low self confidence. He also felt bad when he messed up in relationships. Star comes across as a manipulative brat who plays games with people

[@evanluck1229]

@Luke Jameson I can definitely agree with that. It's definitely a mature and realistic way of moving on, with downfalls, repressed feelings and trying to still be friends. While Mordecai's relationships were unhealthy, I'd say it was handled a million times better

[@nicoleflores2054]

his relationships were pretty unhealthy but at least it didn't result with bad writing but actual real consequences about Mordecai's actions and mistakes, something that this series didn't do well.

[@grant9589]

I laughed when I read that comment, because it's so true.

[@Kumorini]

@@evanluck1229 yeah, people in the cast aren't always supposed to end up together, I feel like CJ was unnecessary though because it just felt like she was used for relationship drama then tossed away.

[@gandalfthewhite3123]

I actually really shipped Marco and Jackie, and to be honest, they could have remained a couple if the series didn't force Starco, leading to her breaking up with him because "it'll be less miserable for them in the long run". Marco hadn't even shown any feelings for Star until about then when they made it forcibly obvious.

[@nightbot2.234]

The way Jackie was obsessed with teasing Marco kinda gave me the hint Jackie loves Marco

[@flx_res]

AGREED

[@DeathMorethanlife]

FRRRRRR Like cuz in the first season you could already see that star had Feelings for Marco but Marco didn't until season 3 where they started making starco should a forced relationship they legit canceled the Marco and Jackie Ship Basically Markie just so they can make star and marco a ship makes no sense

[@jihogariando911]

@@DeathMorethanlife eh it kinda takes awhile for someone to realize that he liked her back

[@DeathMorethanlife]

@@jihogariando911 or maybe star just forced herself on hin

[@jackIshere31411]

I love ships too! The USS Arizona is my favorite ship. It was built in June 19th, 1915, and it took about 15 months to build it. On the early morning of December 7th 1941, Pearl Harbor was attacked, and the USS Arizona, which happened to be in Battleship Row was attacked along with the other battleships and cruisers in the bay of the Harbor. Several bombs struck Arizona, where it was sunken. About a year after the bombing, it was viewed and deemed to be a total loss. About 20 years after it had sunken, a memorial was built for it, honoring the ship and her crew who were lost on that infamous day.

[@Khadharphak]

The irony is that literally any other character would've been a better pairing with Marco than Star. Jackie, Kelly, Janna, Tom, Hekapoo, Moon, Eclipsa, Spider With a Top Hat, three gnomes in a trenchcoat, a bag of crab apples, the colour red... For me, I always thought the Harem route was the only right option for Marco.

[@brianvasquez7053]

Marco: becomes harem protagonist Me: YES

[@gummilatte1618]

I’m gonna be honest that would have been more interesting then the actual show

[@brianvasquez7053]

@@gummilatte1618 has there ever been an American animated show that the mc has a harem?

[@NoTraceOfSense]

So in other words… _It’s time to take a trip to Kuoh._

[@ultravioletentertainment7332]

his an anime protagonist

[@vm141789]

I also thought Hekapoo was done a little dirty. I mean, sixteen YEARS of Marco's life was dedicated to her, literally longer than he's known his parents or friends. It doesn't help that it aged Marco to an adult while Star was still only a teenager. That... that just made Starco uncomfortable.

[@ijornhribrudkrvir]

YEAH FR like after aging into an adult in another dimension, they just sort of gloss over that even if his mental state were to revert to that of a teenager, which I'm not sure it does, dude still has the experience of an adult. I can't imagine any situation where a character like that ending up with a young teen is okay and not like- super weird.

[@brandonlyon730]

Yeah and poor Hekapoo, just does offscreen after the stupid kill all magic thing happened and that gets basically brushed off like she was never hugely important to anyone.

[@COSun25]

@@brandonlyon730 We need the Hekapoo spinoff that we deserve.

[@bibiberrycrunch9223]

I never thought about that... but isn't hekapoo like some hundred years old. That would make it weird too...

[@mikemorro140]

@@ijornhribrudkrvir The weird thing is they do actually bring it up in later episodes that Marco is canonically in his 30s so yeah it is a little weird

[@samuelt.6354]

This made me like Mei and MK's friendship (Monkie Kid) even more, they only vibe as best friends and even the show mocks the idea of them been together on the dream episode

[@daoneandonly1352]

I oove this show and this is one of the reasons why I definitely recommend it for people who haven’t seen it! =D

[@marinadamn5813]

I was ALL for Star and Marco. But they kept throwing them into other relationships. Marco became such an idiot, that I felt Star and Tom should be a thing. I loved Tom and how much he really tried for Star and I wanted her to push for it too. You have Marco throwing away so many wonderful girls, having him whore himself around. It just made it exhausting and me not wanting him to be with anyone at that point. I felt bad for Star. It should have been all or nothing for the Ship, but they just sank it like the Titanic before they decided to throw it a patched up life boat thinking it could still float.

[@zenmaster8]

the blood moon totally could have been platonic soul bonding and their misinterpretations of what they should be feeling was what made them so obsessed with each other. That would have been an interesting twist

[@doccanigetsomecandy7809]

That a fucking great idea

[@spaghetto9836]

I love that.

[@Cheetahgirl_Studios]

Hell. YEAH. Platonic soulmates for life! I need to see more of these in shows. It’s such a neat concept and a nice subversion to the “boy and girl leads get together” cliché.

[@trypotherapy7478]

Yes that was actually where I hoped it would go, BUT NOPE. It just was never mentioned again and that just made their relationship seem forced. (-_-) Star VS the forces of the blood moon of shipping

[@genericname2747]

"I now pronounce you, platonic best friends forever. Go fight evil and don't kiss"

[@AJSdanmakufu]

Man this just reminded me how bitter I was about Jarco's unceremonious ending, and Kellco getting taken out into an alley and shot in the back. I was there for pretty much the whole ride, and it was such a mixed bag because as the show got more plot and lore-focused (which I loved) the shipping stuff got more heavy-handed. Jarco really sucked that it had to end, but Kellco was just -- as you said -- disrespected so hard. It makes it hard for me to look back on the show fondly, even though there's lots of elements I really liked about it.

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Phenomenal Potential, Clunky Execution.

[@karencoon6243]

Everything you said is exactly how I feel about the show. I really enjoyed the plot as there were some really interesting stuff going on. I was upset with Jackie and Marco breaking up and then again with Kelly OFF SCREEN! But I also just didn't enjoy Starco as a romantic pairing personally, I just wanted them to be best friends. I think they worked best that way. And don't even get me started on that finale my god was it the most awful thing I've seen. XD

[@LeadGamerX01]

same here mate. Kind of said the same thoughts I had about the show

[@arellajardin8188]

I choose to believe there’s an alternate reality where Marco moved into Kelly’s hair, and they are still going on wild martial arts adventures through the multiverse.

[@theblackswordsman5039]

That what happens when you make shipping your number one priority, I mean just look at the owl house.

[@margorobinette3025]

Sometimes when I go back and think about that show I remember I overall loved it but sometimes it felt like I only watched the rest of the show so I could FINALLY see Marco and star get together and in the end I liked them a lot better as best friends

[@daniaamir6047]

Those two could have had a siblings like relationship but no every boy and girl friendship need to be romantic

[@Jack75188]

Me when Starco began: OMG, i hope they will get together Me when Starco is canon:...Yay?

[@boothique]

19:32 "something is seriously wrong if you can't even enjoy your own ship becoming canon"

[@Jack75188]

@@boothique FACTS. I don't even like the fact that the ship i have been rooting for become canon.

[@DzakyAmany]

"I won... *but at what cost?"*

[@malsharked]

I honestly just think that their execution was really terrible- they totally shoved it down the viewers throats and didn't make it seem natural AT ALL. I for one am perfectly fine with the ship! But their execution progressivly made it worse

[@Jack75188]

@@malsharked "i have love you from the beginning" No you don't, stop lying.

[@Quizzique]

Kelly was absolutely disrespected in this show. She was a minor character the first 2 seasons, but the latter 2 seasons she grew to one of my favorites, and I thought her and Marco had AMAZING chemistry, as did Star and Tom. So I've decided that in my mind, the show didn't end with Starco. Star and Tom stayed together, Marco and Kelly stayed together, everyone lived happily ever after, give or take a massive magical genocide. Starco was overrated and did NOT need to be a thing. Star and Tom worked fine, but I think them breaking up Marco and Kelly OFF SCREEN just so Starco could happen was the hammer on the nail that Starco was gonna be a disaster. You have to have messed up pretty bad when even the Starco shippers, who got their wish, are like "Yo, this kinda blows a lot more than I thought."

[@andrewfairweather4742]

Yeah her and marco was the most realistic ship in this whole show but that break up between episodes just made the fans leave and give up

[@cstokes3661]

That out of no where break up with m and k was a spit in the face

[@zombies4evadude24]

@@cstokes3661 while getting pissed on, whipped with a wet towel, dunked in a clogged toiled bowl, beat with a bladed fidget spinner, showered with lemon juice on the cuts with the rest of the lemons thrust into your eyes, and after all that forced to guzzle the shit covered piss from the commode as you slowly bleed to death on the cold ground… That wouldn’t even be nearly enough to describe the *pure disrespect* of that moment and the lost potential of the show as a whole.

[@nicoleflores2054]

right?? like, what's the point on creating a romance that it's clearly not gonna end at all.

[@BiaRosy]

EXACTLY!!!

[@christianboi7690]

7:10 you literally made me do a spit take of water as I was gurgling it while brushing my teeth. Funny.

[@nom978]

The first season showed their sibling dynamic brightly. Since they didn’t have siblings, they treated each other like brother and sister. Once people started shipping them, the writers decided to change it to a love dynamic. I always saw Star and Marco as platonic best friends and it gave me an idea of people of the opposite sex can be just good friends too. It’s sad how they had to change them :(

[@sadracklimon2999]

Glad Daron Nefcy told the story the way she wanted to though.

[@SukiNoKoe]

You are wrong; Daron had always planned to get them together! Look it up. The "sibling" dynamic is in your head.

[@Stanco366]

Star was horrible. She treated Tom horrible when they got back together. And Marco just ALWAYS showed up at the wrong time. Overall, season 4 was my least favorite.

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

That’s so true

[@ultrairrelevantnobody1862]

Yep, Season 4 sucked quite a bit.

[@nicholase82]

I think the show started going down hill in season 3 when they tried to suvert expectation.

[@TheDeathmail]

She didn't really treat Tom horribly... instead, Tom realized that her heart wasn't really with him... she wanted to like him.... she wanted to make him happy.... but wanting to like someone means you don't actually like them....

[@JohnSacapano]

Season 4 continues to be a fever dream for me. I officially head canon that the show ended in Battle for Mewni.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

For me, my problem is I started off as a Starco shipper who gradually ended up disliking the ship as the relationship stuff just kept going, and going, and it just kept making Star, and Marco worse, and worse, just look at anybody who dared to date them after the Blood Moon, it almost always ends badly for them... and now I'm a Tomco shipper because they have a really good bond and because Tom was such a good character in the end.

[@YorkJonhson]

Yeah, it got to a point where I genuinely liked every character that was teased to get together with Star and Marco (Jackie, Kelly, Hekapoo, reformed Tom, etc.), but it started to feel like they were all expendable in the name of love triangle drama. So by the time that Star and Marco finally did get together, I couldn't even enjoy the relationship because it felt like half of the cast was screwed over and sidelined for the sake of it.

[@MechanizedAngelz]

@@YorkJonhson, _right?_ I genuinely ended up shipping Kelly, and Marco then he broke up with her, and his character ever since then was somewhat ruined in my eyes so, I just like to think of those moments when Tom and Marco were bonding in Tom's vehicle because that was a great episode, and I loved it... with Star though, I can't think of a single person to ship her with, watching her be with Tom was _just_ torture as a Tom fan, and Marco is _definitely_ not an option, and besides that, I'd rather she just never enters a relationship again... for me, Marco's character was absolutely ruined from Starco.

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

I shipped Tomstar in season 3 only. I HATED THE KISSING BOOTH EPISODE!! I also shipped JanTom. They made sense to me personality-wise. BUT THEY HAD TO RUIN IT WITH THAT ONE EPISODE THAT CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF!! 😫😭😡

[@trika91]

@@HazbinCovenWitch Which episode?

[@xedgelord75x65]

I knew it was never gonna happen but I always wanted Janco or Janstar to be a thing.

[@ThatAussieSiesta]

To me Heccamarco was in the end what should have become canon, he is so many years older than everyone else his apparent age due to his hunt for the dimensional scissors, to the point where when he ends up with Star if he was in the body his mind matches rather than the body he was before that journey it would be blatantly illegal

[@georgechollak6180]

Honestly the best way to make people hate a ship by the showmakers forcing it awkwardly.

[@battybuddy]

I preferred Marco and Jackie. I thought Jackie’s comparing Marcos fails as him just getting back up “just like skateboarding” awesome. And Kelly made me like "did I miss something?"

[@nathanosaka3977]

marco was better with her , she was the best ship for him tbh

[@otherguy5926]

Marco+hekapoo= perfection

[@brian_Austin27]

@@otherguy5926 yeah I like that one and TomxMarco

[@garrettjackson1451]

Ya I have an alternate universe of a jarco ending in my head and it’s going to stay that way

[@lifeaftermidnight6132]

I was really upset with how they treated Tom and Stars relationship. It felt like character assassination and they made Star a horrible gf just so Tom will dump her so she can be with Marco. It broke my heart because I liked them together but they ruined it

[@anonomous5157]

I remember back in middle school when this was out my friends who all shipped starco were trying to brainwash me into thinking that starco was a better ship since I felt like tomstar was more matched. It was a war 😂

[@ElzariusUnity]

@@anonomous5157 Tomco for the win. The only reason we didn't see it is cause boys kissing in 2019 was still a no-no

[@clowixxxchima8685]

@@ElzariusUnity nah tomstar is op tomco sucks as hell -_-

[@HexMyEnemies]

@@clowixxxchima8685I’m not homophobic or anything but Tom x Marco seems weird

[@clowixxxchima8685]

@@HexMyEnemies finally a sane person enter the chat :)

[@databuser4683]

I used to watch Star Vs when i was a teen and my brother and I used to love eat that stuff up until we stopped at the sleepover episode, tried watching the whole show again on Disney plus years later but i just don't want to continue anymore. I'm not sure if i'm glad i'm missing out or what, but i do miss funny magic girl and karate boy being bfs fighting against evil and nothing more.