Sonic Post-Generations

[@RobertBrocchini]

“My Xbox 360 copy is elsewhere” you dropped it in a bowl of cereal, scott

[@yorha19F]

Lmao you serious?

[@toastguy5976]

I vaguely remember him doing that bit in a video

[@shyguygaming5397]

I don’t remember that, but it sounds like something he would do

[@dannyelpesantez5455]

3D Gaming

[@n0isyturtle]

He pushed the memory of where he left it with his 20 minute Sonic Boom rant

[@Cybercymbre]

Now we're entering ANOTHER Post-Generations era!

[@onthedre]

*sigh*

[@Hyp3rSonic]

@@onthedre what?

[@masahirosakurai488]

*sigh*

[@WakoDoodle]

you could say it's now a Shadow of it"s former self! :D Not a great joke but I put "All of Me" into it. After all "I am all I am, all I Am".

[@kazwyrm]

@@WakoDoodle 😐

[@MRP0E]

Hi, I was a programmer with Headcannon on the version of Sonic 3 & Knuckles included in Sonic Origins. I really prefer to stay low key these days, but I emerge from my cavern to share some thoughts... TL;DR: The internet at large (this video included) mostly refers to the remastered versions of the classic Sonic games as "The Christian Whitehead Versions", despite Simon "Stealth" Thomley (professionally known as Headcannon) contributing just as much. I wish they were called the "Retro Engine Versions" (or similar) to better reflect this fact and the nature of how they were built. I've been working full time under Headcannon for over 5 years now, and in that time Simon has become a close personal friend of mine. That means I'm extremely biased, so keep that in mind as you read this, but I feel compelled to mention that to this day, with this video included, the Retro Engine versions of the classic Sonic games are still ubiquitously referred to as "The Christian Whitehead Versions" despite Simon being heavily involved from the beginning. Sometimes S3K gets lumped in there too, even though that was just Headcannon! Even on CD, Simon contributed in reverse engineering select aspects of the original for Christian to re-implement. He was fully involved in Sonic 1, 2, and Mania. There seems to be a persistent rhetoric (especially on youtube) that Christian alone was responsible for these things and is often hailed as the sole savior of the Sonic franchise. It's an easy assumption to make considering that it was only his name/logo that appeared at boot in all of the mobile releases. I get it, it's easy to latch onto the listed lead developer and it's an easy, uplifting synopsis. It doesn't help that again they're consistently called "The Christian Whitehead Versions", calling them that continues to reinforce the idea. Retro Engine itself was authored by Whitehead, possibly adding further confusion. I'm probably too late and long-winded for this comment to get any traction anyway, but I figure this is a decent opportunity to point out that this is a thing, and has been for well over a decade now. I was honestly expecting that after we/Headcannon worked on S3K, people might start naturally referring to them as the "Retro Engine Versions" but that hasn't happened at all. In short, I guess that's all I'm hoping for; it's a more accurate description of what these versions of these Sonic games are and might help make it more clear that others were involved. This isn't just about Simon either, at least Headcannon gets mentioned _sometimes_, including this video. But it often seems people think he was only involved in Mania, again this video included. The segment about Mania's announcement also frames Mania's other developers as Christian Whitehead's (quote) "little Sonic fan buddies" which feels... Dismissive, I guess? To this day, even when referring to Evening Star, people most often seem to simply leave it at "Christian Whitehead and some of those other guys who worked on Sonic Mania", which is a little disheartening. The others get mentioned far less than Tee Lopes and even Simon/Headcannon do, and are regularly reduced to just "some sonic fans". I guess I'm ironically kind of doing that now, but I think talking about anyone other than who was mentioned in this video is possibly poor etiquette for a comment that reflects only my own opinion. I think part of why I feel the need mention all this is because (as a long time religious Woz viewer) I've always taken Scott as a real stickler for details, he always seems to be pretty on-top of the additional historical/cultural context surrounding games and their development. So it's surprising when Sonic Origins is boiled down to "Christian Whitehead didn't work on this but "a form of" Headcannon did", without clarifying that Simon Thomley essentially _is_ Headcannon and that none of us had anything to do with Origins itself (we effectively just did Sonic 3 & Knuckles in a vacuum). He then says "a lot of fans worked on the versions present in Sonic Origins" which I guess kind of true depending on your definition of "a lot"? Sonic CD was mostly Christian with contributions from Simon. Sonic 1 and 2 was Christian and Simon co-developing. Sonic 3 & knuckles was Simon and 4 others (myself included) contracted under Headcannon for all of the work required to rebuild Sonic 3 (yeah, S3K really was that much more work to rebuild). Maybe he's referring to the ways in which other fans-turned-professionals contributed to origins regarding the music and animations? Unsure, but what I'm getting at is, if Scott is iffy on the details, then I know most others are too. Even in the Headcannon discord, they are often referred to as "The Christian Whitehead Versions". It just bums me out a bit considering this could have been a nice opportunity to be a little more clear about this stuff. To be clear I'm not blaming Scott or anyone, if you don't know you don't know. It's hardly actually talked about, though. So here is me, talking about it. I was not expecting to write nearly this much... Thank you for reading!

[@7EEVEE]

It does suck that it worked out that way, I used to get annoyed back in the day seeing countless magazines plastered with Billie Joe Armstrong on his own as if he was the entirety of Green Day.

[@MrPineapple045]

WhiteHeadCannon versions

[@niksooxyz]

Thanks for leaving this comment. I remember shortly after origins came out, Simon had made a twitter thread addressing the general issues people had with origins and especially stuff with the 3&K version headcannon developed like the music changes, the top speed increase, etc. It is kinda weird that a lot of fans (that are very much entrenched in fan discourse) still refer to origins!3&K as a "Whitehead" version even after the development headaches were brough to light and made its rounds in the fanbase, and your comment reminded me that calling them the Whitehead versions diminishes all the work that other dedicated fans put into these versions, even when I knew most of the information about these games' development. From now on, I, at least, am going to start referring to them as the retro engine ports. It's not just respectful, it's also more accurate.

[@LoliconSamalik]

Scott doesn't always have all of the details on hand all the time. he does try, but some of his older videos like his Localization one have various errors in it, like the one about Fire Emblem Fates which took the blind internet accusation of gay conversion therapy literally when the actual unlocalized text said something else. Not to say he isn't trying harder now that he has a crew to direct when making his Woz vids, but it's something to keep in mind.

[@epiccarrot88]

That's more a symptom of "classic" Sonic fans more than anything. The ones who see the 2000s era as "the dark ages", who like Sonic not because it's Sonic, but because whining about Sonic got them famous. So they don't really care enough about the series to do it justice, and instead farm content for clicks. Christian Whitehead gets said clicks.

[@zacharymccoy7091]

I like how Frontiers brought back the biblically accurate angel-like bosses with the epic songs while you fight it. Definitely a huge missing piece of the franchise.

[@gengargamer5657]

Mhm, and thankfully Shad Gens is doing it too

[@Paccyd33]

@@gengargamer5657 i don't lnow much about sonic but isn't shadow generations just a remastered generations with a new character

[@CDRW24]

​@@Paccyd33No, it's basically their take on Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury, where they make an entire side game next to the original.

[@ingothasnolife8040]

​@@Paccyd33not even close lmao, it's in a completely different engine and everything

[@glacierwolf2155]

I thought that you were joking at first, but no, you're completely right. From Adventure to Unleashed, we fought kaijus and demons. This _is_ a part of the Sonic franchise now.

[@SpringdayAutumnmoon]

"I'm not the biggest Sonic guy" - the guy who took his catchphrase from Sonic and the Black Knight

[@krlllx]

😮 Haruhi

[@sergiomanzanares6817]

I request an explanation

[@SpringdayAutumnmoon]

@@sergiomanzanares6817 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn-lZXavadKZqqssi=UWvfmRSPzvsKcvpD

[@Moviefanatic-sr21]

Sonic And The Black Knight has a song called Knight of the Wind and it says “Hey all” a lot as a lyric. Hope this helped :)

[@Mirthful_Panda]

@@Moviefanatic-sr21 wow I didn’t even realize this till now 😂

[@v-nus7718]

Sonic taking itself seriously is the best for everyone. Hardcore fans get a fun adventure worth paying attention to, and people who dont get it at least get a laugh. It's like Kingdom Hearts in that way. When the game tries too hard to make fun of itself in an ironic fashion, it devalues the fans, and the tongue in cheek humor isnt as funny for someone who just wants to point and laugh at sonic taking himself seriously.

[@PrixtoTNT]

Yeah, I honestly really like Sonic being in a serious situation in which he can still act cool and crack a laugh but get serious when needed. He can be really funny or really inspiring

[@HandOn-c40009]

yeah and self aware humor while can be done well most of the time just come off as insequre or excuse for not putting effort into writing. Frontier story isn't perfect but I at least feel something for the character.

[@leonishikino6873]

I don't think you've played Kingdom Hearts, OP. And instead of getting a guy who's never written for games before and only knows how to write comics, they should've gotten someone better. They were too focused on making it serious rather than happy and fun like Forces was.

[@v-nus7718]

@@leonishikino6873 I've played Kingdom Hearts extensively actually, but go off.

[@MegaZeta]

LMAO

[@lowpolyzoe]

Scott describing the Sonic Boom games as licensed games based on a TV show as opposed to Sonic Games puts all of them into context in a way I'd never heard/considered before, and it makes complete sense as to why those games are the way they are. They are licensed games at their core

[@whocaresaboutmyname2535]

TIL that Scott is not only the guy that owns Sonic Jam, he's also the guy that owns the Nintendo 3DS version of Sonic Generations.

[@amirgarcia547]

That was actually the first version of Sonic Generations I played due to not having a PS3 at the time (only a 3DS and Wii.)

[@user-gk6nt5gi5n]

That is the only version of sonic generation ive played

[@zizirobinson]

don’t forget sonic 2 with a line

[@n0isyturtle]

Scott is the only person in history who ever said Sonic 4 makes them nostalgic

[@joshshrum2764]

I don’t.

[@AniGamerNX]

Episode 1 of Sonic x Shadow Gens: Dark Beginnings and a Scott Stash about post-Generations

[@focusfireno.1099]

It's a Wednesday miracle!

[@RefreshingMirage]

There is no coincidence with that

[@XskiillzXx]

We eating good this week

[@hbmento8102]

Forces releasing in late 2017 did some severe damage. The gaming high everyone was on that year, followed by the meme culture of the times caused the community to essentially curb stomp a rather mid game.

[@joshshrum2764]

Like the infinite song says WHO IS GOING TO SAVE YOU NOW.

[@CrossOutBryce]

It also birthed a bunch of younger, new fans who thought it was great because they had nothing recent and good to compare it to.

[@Water90435]

It’s not even just that. You have to keep in mind, forces was THE 3d game after boom rise of lyric crash and burned. I was a kid during that time and let me tell you it felt like everyone was trashing on sonic after that disaster. I guess we sort of hoped for sonic team to prove everyone wrong and to show that sonic, or at least 3d sonic, was indeed GREAT, but we got a mediocre game instead that more proved the haters right then anything. Oh well though. I enjoyed botw and Mario odyssey that year at least.

[@the1whoplayz]

@@CrossOutBryce holy s*it, please just shut the F*CK up. Stop trying to act like the only reason people think its good is just because "people were young when they played it and had nothing good to compare it to." Wait until you find out that it's an actual GOOD and FUN game. As someone who grew up with all Sonic games from Sonic 1 all the way til Sonic Mania (aka the last game that came out before Forces), I ENJOYED Forces during its release. While being disappointed with the story, everything else was still fun and I even went ahead and 100%'d it (just like how I did with Mania (completing every save file with max lives and continues, all chaos emeralds, and each character (including the Knuckles & Knuckles mode)). Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean you get to make up excuses as to why others liked it. (Censored the comment because KZbin thought I was apparently too mean with my initial statement lmao)

[@Quario64]

Not to mention it was released during the whole "sonic was never good" era and when people like arin hanson had a huge influence on the gaming community at the time and was even a damn ambassador for the sonic franchise. So forces being as mid as it was just added salt to a very bad wound

[@FreezeMotion]

i needed something to play in the background of my wii sports resort golf

[@Ecua73]

Dudes living the dream

[@pass_]

I hope when vr reaches its peak potential we can just like go to a virtual wuhu island and play sports casually, I dont know what I'm talking about

[@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas]

What's your score?

[@mitchellfresh]

@@pass_ VR Dolphin mod when?

[@ShadowPKMNcz]

Damn that sounds incredible, I usually put on longer videos when I grind in Pokémon, I gotta try that sometimes.

[@StrawberryPidgey]

sonic generations was the first game my BF ever gave me what do you mean it's 13 years old what do you mean i'm 35 now ow my back

[@c7b2]

how's the walking stick

[@HarrySingh-z1e]

Hope yall still together

[@frauleinzuckerguss1906]

​@@HarrySingh-z1e you can't break up with the guy who gifted you Sonic Generations

[@hco4203]

say hi to your grand kids for me.

[@LonelyAncient]

Did the triceratops have udders?

[@FluffyNuo]

seeing sonic as a franchise get a part of its soul back after frontiers makes me exponentially happy, hoping for more shadow stuff from sega in the future : )

[@BugsyFoga]

The Sonic post generations era of the franchise was certainly a fascinating time to go through with its various high and lows, and even though sonic is in a better and more consistent place during the post move era, I’ll still appreciate the memorable moments that stem from the post generations era .

[@chumbo_7931]

these videos are so comfy, please never stop making them

[@dreamcastdazia4753]

Legit

[@TheLaysOriginal]

I've been really enjoying the lengthy uploads here, nothing beats Scott's disembodied hands on a carpet

[@sonicthomasgamer]

Master Hand 🎩meet Nerdy Hand 👓

[@joshshrum2764]

Or just his voice.

[@TheEpicPichu]

After Generations the Sonic franchise felt kinda weird. It felt like the devs behind the Sonic series didn’t know how to use Sonic in quality ways. While we did get some real bangers (Mania I’m looking at you!), that wasn’t until VERY late 2010’s. I’m glad the series has taken a better turn now, albeit it’s been a little slow

[@sophiebubbles07]

People call the late 2000s the dark ages of Sonic but I’d beg to differ 2010s Sonic says hello

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

cause most of the devs left after generations, why do you think forces only had 3 level designers.

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

​@sophiebubbles07 the 2000's nearly killed the franchise we got herpes to shadow to 06 back to back that's worse than anything from the 2010's.

[@roberttaylr]

Late 2010's? We didn't get anything good from Sonic Team till 2022

[@ArynBacklogDragon]

​@sophiebubbles07 a lot of people like to refer yo the 2010s as the "meta-eta"

[@Rilenz13]

52:56 Complaining the Sonic Mania art book is too BIG and that it should've been smaller to fit in the case... Come on man I want my art books as big as posible, what are you doing

[@adriann3]

If I had a nickel for every time a Sonic game was praised for having the best gameplay in years, and being told that the sequel needs to "do the same thing but with new level themes", only for said sequel to never materialize, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's fucking tragic it happened twice.

[@plourples]

generations, yeah.. what's the other 🤔

[@joshawott_27]

What about the franchise’s peak “The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog”? Sure it was released as an April Fools gag, but it was genuinely fun.

[@myriadmediamusings]

Generations definitely feel like a high watermark, and I await its re-release next month with the new Shadow content. Yeah, I do feel after Generations things just felt little…underwhelming for lack of a better term when it came to Sonic games. Mania and Frontiers I did like but the rest were either meh, Sonic Boom, or Sonic Forces.

[@thecommentor3845]

I appreciate unlike Sonic Colors Ultimate, which is the same game but with a mild amount of content added, that they choose to remaster a beloved game but also throw what seems like an entirely new game that we still don't have the full scope of where it is going. it is nice to have some mystery.

[@FurryestX]

Sonic frontiers is an Empty Open World

[@dreamcastdazia4753]

​@@FurryestX Oh sod off please. Just don't talk

[@myriadmediamusings]

​@@thecommentor3845Could be seen as the Sonic equivalent of Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury now that I think about it.

[@carso1500]

​@@myriadmediamusingsit is, the shadow campaign looks pretty big

[@TJZ243]

There’s no way we just got a new Sonic animated video and a Scott The Woz video about Sonic dropping back to back 😂

[@CFodd01]

0:36 Agreed! The plot may be non-existent but the gameplay is really fun, I really enjoyed 100% the game cuz it felt fun the entire way through, can't wait for the new release in october.

[@FreezeMotion]

anyone else been wanting scott sonic content and just got blessed with an hour and a half video of just that 🙏

[@SnaksiXD]

An additional note about Sonic Runners: The fans have revived the original version of that game. It runs through fan-upkept servers.

[@hazelcrisp]

Ooh sweet. I always wanted to try it out

[@Verycoolperson1987]

​@@hazelcrispit's really good it even has some characters from the idw comics and it also gets events

[@getuponthemike6341]

"I could play Sonic Colors before release FOR ELEVEN YEARS" might be the funniest joke on a Stash video ever

[@egamerej]

it’s a genuine miracle that the sonic franchise abused its fans as much as it did with their shitty soulless basic titles throughout the 2010s yet arised from that era in the strongest financial/popularity state the franchise has ever been in. Frontiers, sonic 3 and shadow gens are genuine signs of them taking those resources and taking more confident creative risks. I’m still so hurt from the 2010s but i’ve never been more excited for the future years of a franchise than i have been for sonic’s mid 2020s RUNback. :)

[@mredbadger]

Nah they just got a lucky break with the movie being a hit. If Paramount didn’t change that design, the series would have died completely

[@NickMario1]

@@mredbadgerngl yeah, if it wasn’t for mania and the Sonic movie design change then the franchise would’ve been banjoed

[@mredbadger]

I mean let’s be honest, they totally fumbled the Mania bag with Superstars

[@jondot.fullstop]

nooo you didn’t talk about the murder of sonic the hedgehog :(

[@dhLord64]

that and the Zelda and Yoshi DLC for Lost World!

[@CalebRazzleberry]

My man is a closeted Sonic fan. It's ok scott. you can come out of the dungeon, it's not 2014 anymore. the rocky transition to 3d era is behind us

[@NickonPlanetRipple]

I think the Sonic Adventure 2 stages were recreated for Sonic Frontiers for a different reason than lifting from Generations/Unleashed/etc. To see if Adventure's level design still works, if fully 3D Sonic level design built like that is still fun in this day and age, because apparently that was up for debate, a question that needed answering. And the answer is yes in my book.

[@goldiethecat210]

Scott finally talking about Sonic Forces was not on my bingo card.

[@beamiersky3267]

i... really watched the whole video. an hour and a half. of a series i haven't ever played a single game of.

[@frogsnott5284]

I know way too much about Sonic development lore for someone who's only ever played and enjoyed Sonic Colors on the DS lmao

[@Vizzle1113]

“You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me.” - Sonic X Shadow Generations

[@agentomecha634]

Sonic Generations was a major part of my childhood. It along with Sonic Unleashed were my first games I got with my Xbox 360. I’m super excited to pick up the remaster later this year and play the new Shadow campaign.

[@meteormorning]

Honestly in my opinion, Sonic taking itself seriously is no different than Ratchet & Clank, Rayman, etc taking themselves seriously. I love when Sonic is unapologetically Sonic.. so glad we're back to that again

[@nolethXB]

Shonen Sonic is Best Sonic

[@LoliconSamalik]

@@nolethXB We're seinen Sonic now

[@meteormorning]

@@james656-k8e my thoughts exactly, I truly think its just a matter of people hating without any real substance behind said hate

[@TaeInfinite]

@@meteormorningNot really. I feel like fans want these “serious stories” because they want to feel validated for playing children games. It’s a Blue Hedgehog for Christ sake. No one is going to take it seriously unless there’s very good writers behind it and SEGA never done that. The best thing they’ve done with characterization and story is Sonic Adventure 1 & 2 and they weren’t as special like fans claim. It’s just something you don’t get in 3D Platforming titles.

[@meteormorning]

@@TaeInfinite I can tell you're just arguing in bad faith lol. So I wont humor you but to put it simple, if the Ninja Turtles can be serious so can a blue hedgehog. Good day

[@TheDarkMoonRise]

‘Mighty and Ray were cool additions because they were really obscure characters from Sonic’s past’ So obscure I thought they were original characters until now.

[@gengargamer5657]

D@mn

[@Sonicfalcon16]

Yeah knuckles past

[@somecitrus7561]

Update 3 of Frontiers absolutely PUNISHED us for critiquing the parry…

[@Kaiber132]

I still maintain that lost world is pretty alright and unleashed is really good

[@NoodleFire]

The best thing about Generations for the 3ds was absolutely the Time Eater fight. I found that fight so much more enjoyable than the console one.

[@gengargamer5657]

Agreed, I hope the remaster gives us something like that version

[@ItsAubreeyy]

1:03:44 they did ai upscale them. sega gave them the cutscene files, but blind squirrel just decided to ai upscale the wii cutscenes instead for some reason

[@SaddieMoon]

Ironically enough for Scott’s point, fans would put it upon themselves to make actual remade versions of these cutscenes.

[@Cr102y]

@@SaddieMoonYeah,him saying that the cutscenes look fanmade as an insult is ironic considering that fans nowadays make animations that are arguably much more expressive and overall better.

[@Colecionador7162]

I do not agree with your update 3 and superstars takes but hey, this video is still very well edited and I could understand most of your other points and even appreciate some discussions you brought up, I'm not going to start crying over a difference in opinion

[@Sonen10]

What synergy! He posted this at nearly the same time as the new Dark Beginnings episode!

[@jameslawrenson1208]

Only Scott!

[@waywardlaser]

Sonic Frontiers was legitimately the most fun I had playing 3D Sonic since I was a kid, obsessing over Adventure 1 and 2. It's a great foundation to build upon for future games.

[@spudworks_]

Still never understood the hate for Lost World but I guess that’s me. I enjoyed it but I was also much younger and played it after Colors so maybe that’s why. I know it doesn’t play like previous Sonic games but I think that’s why I liked it.

[@cassandramaccarthy3337]

It's just a bit Mid, it's not BAD or anything it's just not the kinda game people (including me) really wanted after Generations. That and the wisps are ??? after Colors' ending and the parcour was underutilized. Just a 6.5/10 game overall, not the 2-3/10 people seem to think it is

[@JAM609]

I played the whole thing for the first time last week. I did not like it. The timer counting down when you need 7000 critters was rough.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@JAM609 Fun Fact: In Lost World you can use the run button to make the spin dash last longer and you can jump while in spin dash mode. The downside is that you have less control in spin dash, so it requires alot of practice to master.

[@pAirA_]

@@orangeslash1667 Yes, using spin dash that way was pretty fun! That's why the first desert stage is my favorite one from that game because of the ramps letting you cover HUGE distance with a well timed Spin Dash. Too bad the rest of the stages are narrow and don't really open up as much as the desert stage. I'm glad the spin dash from Frontiers fully capitalizes on that, it's now my favorite play style of Sonic.

[@JAM609]

@@orangeslash1667 I know, but you exit ball form if you double jump. Spin dashing can’t help when you have to bounce on clouds for 3 minutes at a time. Or when you’re a snowball. I don’t like the enemies where using a homing attack gets you hurt when you couldn’t have known you needed the kick. The homing attack kills all your speed and you can’t jump afterwards

[@leonro]

19:05 Ummm... what about the blue arms? I remember all of the Sonic fans complaining about that one detail of all things.

[@Lanetgm]

Didn’t Chris Chan pepper sprayed a random game store employee because of it

[@myriadmediamusings]

“They never should’ve changed the color of Tomatopotamus’s legs.” -Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Boom

[@nicorulez77]

I was one of them at 13

[@howisthis8849]

wasnt that just Chris Chan

[@MotherPlut0]

​@@howisthis8849no dude I saw people genuinely freak out and get mad for them...changing....his...arms...

[@dextheclone9186]

Yeah, I also remember the statement that SEGA shouldn’t make 3d sonic games when sonic mania released 😩

[@sometf2player752]

That was so stupid lmao

[@CosmicSponge2004]

That sentiment felt like it was getting bigger and bigger each year from 2006-2018

[@tntsonic7482]

I know update 3 fumbled in some areas but I didnt think Scott would say it was abysmal.

[@IanTho1]

agreed

[@TetrisShark70]

Difficulty curve was awful and basically incentivized avoiding combat encounters like the plauge. The platforming for the towers was the pits, even for Frontiers standards. Granted I'm not the biggest fan of Frontiers controls and wished they were better.

[@CrossOutBryce]

​@@TetrisShark70I'm not even memeing. That's a skill issue.

[@TetrisShark70]

@@CrossOutBryce nah, not even dude. The platforming was jank as hell and made me feel like I was fighting the controls at all times. I've played my fair share of Sonic stuff and Frontiers final horizon was just bullshit design across the board.

[@hazelcrisp]

@@CrossOutBryce On launch it was kinda annoying on anything harder than easy. Because when you fall off, the breakables don't respawn so you have to run away and die somewhere. Which made it more tedius than it is.

[@dragoon1090]

I really like watching these videos. They're always so fun. Thank you Scott.

[@Debloko666]

No mention to "The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog"?

[@NolimitXDBM]

"Scott how do you feel about the state of sonic after 2011" "Its okay"

[@heyitsluke4721]

i LOVED the og sonic runners. I remember playing it on my mom’s phone and one day i just couldn’t log in. I was so sad

[@Sonic_jams]

Sad to hear you hated Update 3 for Frontiers, I thought it was so cool to play as the other characters again

[@LoliconSamalik]

There was jank with the update though, especially with the poorly explained boss battles having broken parry windows

[@jayceallen6530]

@@LoliconSamalikyeah that shit wasn’t fun, tbh I got like 75 percent through after gettjng tired and pissed off by the towers and pop in that I took a week long break and came back to finish it

[@kirikatsu3]

I liked it too, I just wish I’d waited to beat it until they patched and fixed most of the issues e.g. knuckles gliding delay

[@LoliconSamalik]

@@james656-k8e when it works... Probably should have explained the dodge/target change mechanic before the fight....

[@ravensflockmate]

@@LoliconSamalik but it works the entire time?

[@levymgc8401]

Wow I sure love Scott talk about sonic games from generation to… generation for 1 and a half hours

[@andy-san79]

1:03:54 - the fact that a fan actually rerender and remastered the cutscenes and not the dev team made this pretty ironic.

[@Xzeon55]

how come Scott completely skipped the final DLC for Frontiers? they completely retconned the ending of Frontiers and added 3 other characters, seems odd he skipped it....

[@IanTho1]

he said it was update 3 was "fucking abysmal" so I just assume he didn't like it and didn't wanna talk about it?

[@ravensflockmate]

@@IanTho1 unironic skill issue

[@IanTho1]

@@ravensflockmate I agree lol

[@TurntUpTurtles]

26:20 you take back that Charmy Bee disrespect right now Scott

[@CastellANM]

1:03:10 to experience epileptic glitches on Switch you have to enter multiple worlds since the game had a memory leak It's very easy to do

[@JonnySpec]

That glitch was also fixed in an update, that's probably why he didn't experience that glitch.

[@CastellANM]

@@JonnySpec yeah that's why I said "had" 😅 But hey, he can try it out by not updating the cartridge hehe

[@oshurook2421]

37:45 pac-man gets freaky

[@kongism]

But what if he was called Freak-Man…

[@Aza_Lazali]

“Did you know that, freak-man was originally going to be f*ck-man…”

[@Sparkjolteon]

to give Forces some undeserved credit, I think it's an interesting transitional piece for the series. They took a lot of bad cues from Generations, but they also had a story technically featuring more of the extended cast, a return of vocal themes, an.... attempt at a darker tone, a new character that felt more adventure-era-y... It definitely feels more Sonic in spirit than Lost World did and I feel like part of what made Frontiers work vibes-wise is that they decided to really earnestly COMMIT to all those things that had been getting kinda phased out since 06's huge flop.

[@kiwiboy234]

forgot to mention the best one... The Murder of Sonic (I seriously love that game).

[@Cr102y]

This was a pretty neat review ngl. Obviously I don’t agree with everything said in this vid (people who unironically use “buttrock” to describe Sonic music lack fun and whimsiness) but this is honestly a lot more nuanced and overall better than the average Sonic reviews from both Sonic fans and Game reviewers.

[@vinnyfromvenus8188]

yeah same, I could never imagine anyone calling Undefeatable or the other Frontiers tracks "butt rock" , kind of shocked me when I heard it ngl

[@boomerthedingo2196]

1:20:20 Update 3 was actually great tbh, the platforming was super challenging, plenty of new content, new island, new unovokables and a MUCH BETTER final boss

[@JcFerggy]

Sonic Runners is still my favorite Sonic OST. That music really slaps.

[@TheJankoid]

I've never played a single sonic game, but it's a Scott video, so I'm gonna listen to it!

[@Lanosplaylist]

11:20 the craziest part about transformed vs Mario kart 7 is that transformed was I’m pretty sure copywrited and released first.

[@batmanbud2]

MK7: 2011 SART: 2012 (Wii U launch title) Yeah, no

[@hahasamian8010]

I think they were both just independently made. There is an interview with Sumo where they said they were shocked and kind of frustrated that Nintendo showed off a game with similar mechanics first. They were surprised by it. Anyway, it's clear they were both just making up for lost time after Diddy Kong Racing did everything best years ago!!

[@Rusty_Spy]

The actual craziest part is that Transformed is light-years better than Mario Kart 7 but nobody gives it the recognition it deserves.

[@hahasamian8010]

@@Rusty_Spy It's funny, I actually really prefer the first game in the series. It's simpler but it just feels nicer to me... Transformed is just really heavy by comparison, I guess

[@Karianysu]

1:17:40 I kinda love that for an open world. Its such a chill game to play, very comforty

[@whotfisKy]

49:11 That's actually EXACTLY what they did. Seriously, if you have the game just take a look at the stage line up. Every character has a stage in each backdrop. There's also a boss in each one.

[@fettwampe]

I haven't watched a single sonic movie, but a Scott's Stash movie talking about sonic.

[@Reset2150676]

the timing of the upload is crazy

[@Whiteythereaper]

Small disclaimer about the Colors Ultimate's visual bugs: the strobing screen stuff that was spreading around online was almost entirely footage recorded from the leaked ROM being played on Yuzu & Ryujinx before the day 1 patch. Unfortunately the damage was done and the other issues experienced solidified the whole "Colors Ultimate is rushed and buggy" narrative. The only geniune issues that the majority of players faced was because of Denuvo DRM once again being smashed in last minute

[@TheFrantic5]

Is it just me, or the fact that the wisps randomly showing up in games after Colors implies that they are now an invasive alien species and once again Eggman is living up to his eco-terrorism roots?

[@Chineseisntalanguageapparently]

Sonic showed everyone that gamers might not know what they want (especially when it comes to Sonic) but gaming journalists definitely don’t know or care what gamers want

[@TaeInfinite]

I agree but it’s certainly the developers fault as well. Sonic Team is so damn all over the place with Sonic and created the chaos we have today. There isn’t much consistency with Sonic and that’s why it’s such an obtuse series.

[@kingbash6466]

Really a shame that the 2010s became such a bust for Sonic because it started with so much promise with Colors and especially Generations. I'm just hoping the 2020s doesn't share the same fate.

[@Superdude-rd2gs]

they've been starting every decade well and crashing towards the end since sonics inception e.g 90's Sonic 1-3 to chaotix to x-treme 2000's sonic adventure 1 and 2 to heroes to shadow to 06 to unleashed 2010's colors and generations to lost world to boom to forces this is the actual sonic cycle.

[@dekuswagg]

Take a shot every time Scott says ‘what are we doing here.’

[@PigeonLord21]

1:22:25 hey you watch your tongue. The 8-bit Sonic the Hedgehog game for Game Gear is fire

[@acethehedge449]

I would like to add that Sonic Triple Trouble and Tails' Adventure are also pretty good

[@PigeonLord21]

@@acethehedge449 omg yeah how could i forget about those

[@theTrueLinkC]

But hes right tho Game gear games sucks specially considering that they can use the Mastersystem for that

[@MileHiGuy95]

Am I the only one who doesn't like how they still force modern sonic into 2D segments?

[@phil2160]

I am certain you're not.

[@gremlinqueen6657]

I think sonic superstars is an ok edition to classic sonic. It's a little overcharged but a nice edition. I honestly think the story was a highlight for me. I personally love trip the sungazer and hope she continues to be used as she is just a really cute character, and as a adamant fang the hunter fan I cherish any content of him I get

[@naesala]

Moving fast in an open world is so fun. My favorite type of movement for open world games, actually!

[@apeofearth4876]

Brand accounts trying to be funny on social media will forever be cringe. Some random ass person got hired to post cookie cutter cynical one liners on their page. OMG SO HILARIOUS AND RELATABLE

[@lobsteros]

1:03:51 "They look like something a fan would do on KZbin" Ironic you say that, since a fan on KZbin actually did a way better job of remastering the cutscenes! (See: Project Re-Rainbow)

[@SpringdayAutumnmoon]

Love how you can so vividly tell Scott hasn't played Sonic Transformed for more than a few minutes. While not as polished as Mario Kart 8, it's a lot more skill based AND it had 200CC at launch.

[@Adam-xd9tr]

Not to mention it has legitimately good side content beyond standard racing, and the mod system is quicker to use and more impactful than the kart customization of 7 and 8. I understand someone preferring Mario Kart if they love the chaos of that series, but I put far more time into Transformed due to having more stuff to do and the greater focus on skill.

[@Tharja-iBW]

1:21:00 They made the plus edition a download code because some people that bought Mania base mania Digitally had to insert the disc in order to access the plus content, having a download code made it so you didn't need to insert the disc anymore if you had previously bought Origins digitally.

[@Blizzard428]

I loved Update 3, man's crazy.

[@gengargamer5657]

Based

[@IanTho1]

I loved it too, despite the jank

[@zachattack1279]

Let me tell you sonic forces is my chibi robo ziplash. This game blows “throws game into toilet”

[@Aidenstar216]

Same here lol

[@AmanPikon]

I cleanse my copies in toilet water to express my hatred

[@Slybandito7]

I legitimately used the game box as a coaster for when i drink rum lol

[@genyakozlov1316]

And then there's me, for whom it's one of the best Sonic games together with CD, Adventure 1, and Shadow the hedgehog.

[@floatsyourgoats6200]

Forces was the first time I actually lost hope for the series. It's far from the worst game, but it's also the first time a mainline console was safe and polished but also boring at the same time. Like 06 was blatantly unfinished, and the werehog and storybook games were a departure from what I liked, but Forces gave me exactly what I wanted on paper and still managed to be a massive disappointment.

[@BriansMad]

You forgot to mention Sonic Lost World for the 3DS

[@01Zipang]

I also want to say the sonic comic's post Archie reset are REALLY good. If you're a sonic fan I recommend reading some of them. They are genuine fun romps.

[@MaxM210]

Sonic Dream Team is weirdly good. Like really, REALLY, weirdly good. It might genueinly be the best feeling 3D Sonic I've ever played. The level design is so polished and the physic are so smooth. I straight up do not understand how this game was made and then sent to the Apple Arcade dungeon where no one can play it because nobody has apple arcade. I could only play it through some weird plan my mom wasn't using. I hope it's a Shantae situation where Apple has a timed deal on it and it'll come to consoles soon, because it's just too good a game to stay trapped on a weird apple thing nobody has and can only be played on a phone or a mac.

[@mrmikal11]

Sonic Dreams Collection is also good

[@jaretco6423]

Yeah. I wanted to play it cause it looks so good. Might looked like the best 3D Sonic game since Generations.

[@tomazing]

That's right, I'm right on time. I like sonic and I like Scott, so I guess this is just perfect isn't it? Very cool.

[@thabreez456]

Huh what's with the update 3 shade for sonic frontiers. Sure it wasn't amazing but "abysmal" seems too harsh.

[@Colecionador7162]

It was a HEAVY difficulty spike, I thought it was fair for the most part but I can see why some people didn't like it, specially those that aren't extreme Sonic nuts like I am, looking at (what I think is) Scott's gameplay in this video it's understandable why he didn't find joy in final horizon

[@SuperMandibleclaw]

@@Colecionador7162 so it's a skill issue

[@gengargamer5657]

@@SuperMandibleclawYup

[@CrossOutBryce]

​​@@Colecionador7162Massive skill issue on their part. Lock in.

[@Cr102y]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Colecionador7162Some of it was genuinely unfair but considering how easy base Frontiers was,the difficulty was necessary.

[@jordanhoughton1948]

'What are we doing here? : the video: featuring sonic: a Scott the Woz joint'

[@Jaco4126]

God, I'm glad things are getting better for sonic. The shadow animation that sega just released looked absolutely amazing. If sonic x shadow generations is any indication, we are heading into a new sonic renaissance!

[@jaretco6423]

I still don't trust the game itself. If Colors Ultimate goes by is that they show style with little substance and the game will play worst than the original one.

[@gengargamer5657]

@@jaretco6423Except SCU was made by Blind Squirrel, and SXSG has already proven it’s going to be good thanks to the prerelease and the demo

[@jaretco6423]

@gengargamer5657 You don't know that. Blind Squarrel may be gone. But that don't mean nothing. Also let's not forget Origins.

[@gengargamer5657]

@@jaretco6423 Yes, actually, I do know that considering what people have been saying about the demos. Also, Origins is a good collection

[@jaretco6423]

@gengargamer5657 Even with updates, Origins is still not an good port. I'm still convinced Generations x Shadow won't be an good remastered. I won't to be wrong. But I'm cautious.

[@Shy202]

28:00 For those who still love runners, there is also the fan project Sonic Runner Revival

[@prebbolo]

If I hear any sonic boom slander I'm out Scott, count your days

[@legacytag]

Ill never forget the time i got really stoned and binged the Sonic Boom TV show, only to learn that that show is actually really great. Truly the best thing to come out of that whole era of Sonic

[@PotatoGamingss]

Honestly him posting this while sonic is having his best year since the 90s is pretty funny

[@PrixtoTNT]

This was a really fun video to watch. I had genuinely forgotten about Sonic Superstars LOL

[@weebsquit347]

Kinda wild that the next good Sonic game, is a remaster of Sonic Generations with some good looking extra Shadow content that's basically its own small game.

[@Karianysu]

"extra shadow content" its basically a new game

[@gengargamer5657]

Mania, Frontiers, Superstars, TMOSTH, and Dream Team were all good Sonic games that came after Gens, what are you talking about?

[@Karianysu]

@@gengargamer5657 it really isnt that much of a success. Yes Mania and Frontiers were good. Everything else okay and forgetable.

[@gengargamer5657]

@@Karianysu Except they were. Frontiers literally saved the franchise as confirmed by interviews w/ Sonic Team and it’s the reason why Shad Gens is as fantastic as it is. Everything else after Frontiers was great as well

[@Gestersmek]

Tbh I don't trust Sega to not somehow screw up the Generations remaster.

[@bigjohnsbreakfastlog5819]

Scott the Woz will talk about Spinball one of these days. It, after all, exists.

[@pass_]

sonic game discussion gives me brain rot these days, I have no idea what a "meta era" is, why colours was once loved but now isn't, why unleashed is now apparently the best game ever made, people used to like the casual stories and writing of the 2010s games but now hate it and want the 2000s style sonic back, things have changed a lot since I joined the fandom in 2014 and I don't know what's going on anymore, shadow generations is looking sick though

[@sonarabit]

It would be almost impossible to explain because then it would have to go into people's mental patterns but to explain the stories in the 2000s the stories had actual themes and heart and told a message in a more meaningful way. Like sonic and the secret rings is not that sonic goes to collect the seven world rings to stop the bad guy. The story actually has a lot to do with an abusive relationship. The plot of sonic colors for instance is that eggman is collecting aliens and you have to stop him. One has a heart and one is just trying to be fun. Both are good but the problem is we either get one or the other when I think you need both. Because you will get sick of one. And sonic has always been meta so the "meta era" thing is complete nonsense to me. Look at sonic 1 he taps his foot at the player.

[@captinsparklezremix]

If you don't know the problem with Sonic nowadays then you're just kinda dumb.

[@sonarabit]

@@james656-k8e that too

[@kirikatsu3]

meta era - "meta" meaning "about itself" in this context, ie, this era of the series lacking its own identity due to over reliance on references to past eras (constantly bringing back green hill zone etc.) the 2000s barely did this at all, aside from some special things like GHZ being the reward for 100%ing SA2 colours - in 2010 colours was the first Sonic game in a while to widely receive praise from mainstream critics whilst also being a solid game fans could get behind. it has become less popular over time due to being pinpointed as the start of the "lazy" writing (eg. baldy mcnosehair scene) and the decline of the characterisation of characters like Sonic and Tails, which makes sense due to the new writers at the time not knowing a single thing about the series. (and also the start of when the series started all but ignoring the existence of anyone other than Sonic Tails and Eggman) I believe that this shift we are seeing at the moment that you've recognised is partly due to Sonic Team wanting to appeal to the nostalgia of those that grew up in the 2000s. ten years ago it was the same but for 90s kids, BUT I also think back then they were much too focused on what mainstream critics like IGN had to say about them, which discouraged them from doing anything but playing it safe. It's easy to forget how brutally the internet treated the sonic-punching-bag back in the day. unleashed - similar to before, kids that grew up in the 2000s, especially with unleashed, are now adults. Unleashed came out in the peak of online sonic-bashing and was treated very unfairly. it's far from perfect, but is still an amazing game on all fronts graphically, musically, gameplay and writing. (I even enjoy the werehog personally, though I know its not for everyone :p) hope u enjoyed this sleep deprived ramble

[@kirikatsu3]

@@sonarabit that isnt what people mean when they say meta era, meta doesnt just mean breaking the fourth wall. in this context it means the series was constantly referencing its past to such an extent that it wasn’t looking or moving forward.

[@SylverstoneKhandr]

7:43 - Iizuka flat out said that Episode II was too big for WiiWare based on the enhancements they added, and there was no way it could be compressed to fit.