Secret Details of Jane Elliott’s Race and Brutality Experiment (Stephen Bloom)

The Michael Shermer Show # 296
This conversation explores the never-before-told true story of Jane Elliott and the “Blue-Eyes, Brown-Eyes Experiment” she made world-famous, using eye color to simulate racism.
Shermer and Bloom discuss: Jane Elliott and how she came to conduct her famous experiment • reactions to it (in the classroom, locally, nationally, internationally) • whether the “experiment” was really more of a demonstration • public interest, from Johnny Carson to Oprah Winfrey • the questionable ethics of the experiment • what it reveals about tribalism, racism, obedience to authority, role playing, social proof • whether the experiment reveals hidden racist attitudes or creates them in children • Does it indicate bad apples or bad barrels? • race sensitivity training programs, then and now (and why they don’t really work) • what drives moral progress • the future of journalism.
Stephen Bloom is a professor of journalism at the University of Iowa. He is the author of Blue Eyes, Brown Eyes: A Cautionary Tale of Race and Brutality (University of California Press, 2021); The Audacity of Inez Burns: Dreams, Desire, Treachery & Ruin in the City of Gold (Regan Arts, 2018); Tears of Mermaids: The Secret Story of Pearls (St. Martin’s Press, 2011); The Oxford Project [with photographer Peter Feldstein] (Welcome Books, 2010); Inside the Writer’s Mind (Wiley, 2002); and Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America (Harcourt, 2000). He has worked for the Los Angeles Times, Dallas Morning News, San Jose Mercury News, Sacramento Bee, Latin America Daily Post, and Field News Service. He especially likes writing about every man/woman: the barista, bartender, baker, butcher, barber - or murderer-turned-prison employee.
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[@patriciak8936]

Australian here. I remember in grade 4 ( 1969 in Australia ) my teachers in primary school tried the blue and brown eye experiment . It was really more of a discussion and since my teachers were nice people there wasn't any nastiness or hurt. The experiment was a total failure and never repeated. The other thing is, I don't remember any "isms" at school. Nearly every student was either an immigrant or the children of immigrants ( as was I ) and no one ever said anything about it.

[@truth2you]

Too bad, you all probably stayed an ignorant group of racist.

[@angb4329]

Yeah, anyone who thinks that what Jane did to people was cruel and traumatizing GOOD! That's the point!!! Brown people in our country are still being treated cuely and being traumatized on a 24/7 basis. And to live that for an afternoon, if it opens even one person's heart, is so more than worth it.

[@begshallots]

I feel a bit ashamed at being taken in by all of this for so long. I showed this doc to others and really thought it was a good thing. It wasn’t. It should have been obvious.

[@nicklindsley7866]

Jane Elliot made my blood run cold from the get go. I sensed a cold, hard soul who masqueraded as a compassionate caring person. She may even have fooled herself. I wouldn't let her within a mile of any kids I had.

[@tammyslade1375]

You’re scared of truth huh! 😂

[@nicklindsley7866]

@@tammyslade1375 you think she warm compassionate and caring? The truth being... what?

[@Summerbabi73]

Funny because the world treats us JUST that way. But you see no issues with THAT huh. A class for a few days of that feeling versus your whole life having someone really thinking they're better than u because of something u can't control. I've had freaking bums who thought they were better than simply because of their skin. That video of the lady feeding the homeless was a prime example. The 1 white guy that was in line called the police because he was the only one and HE THOUGHT he should've been served first.

[@pinkharrier47]

@@Summerbabi73 huh? You think highly of Elliott or not?

[@truth2you]

Bloom says that Iowans attitude was they’re not racist and had never even met a Black person all the while one of Jane’s fellow teachers expressed joy about MLK being assassinated saying it’s about time someone killed him🤦‍♂️. Racism is as American as Apple Pie.

[@silvertube52]

This episode could have been done in 15 minutes. Journalists seem to want to drag things out. I hope there is more content in the book. There are important social and psychological phenomena to discuss, but the details of her life and her national fame, not relevant. I appreciate that Michael tried to get to the point through Bloom's incessant story telling. I don't care that Iowa is full of corn.

[@roxee57]

I heard about it all the way over here in Australia because I was watching the Oprah Winfrey show in my late 20’s early 30’s burning my stay at home mum phase.

[@JavierBonillaC]

It doesn’t sound like a cruel experiment. For one day you would be looked down upon and we are tearing our hearts out? Maybe I don’t understand something. Many of us were bullied in elementary school once or twice for one reason or another and it was no big deal.

[@matthewperry5121]

What is your plan for a pole flip or comet impact

[@ellomirza]

Omg this dude needs hours to say something that can be summed up in minutes.

[@turfterf6874]

I pay reporters and some social media people because they are reporting stories I want to know about but the mainstream media doesn't cover. I do challenge myself a little and will read content I don't agree with if I trust the source. Even doing that little bit puts me in the extreme minority even among my friends.

[@mantisamygdala]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions - Der Weg zur Hölle ist mir guten Vorsätzen gepflastert

[@shelleyscloud3651]

Fascinating. It’s never black & white is it (apologies for the awful pun) ? But of course the truth rarely is.

[@gmotionedc5412]

But blue eyes are prettier😊

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

This has to be better then to Experts telling us unlimited population growth is best in a world with infinite resources and that world with infinite resources is ours.

[@Summerbabi73]

The critics of this program always seem to be the ones who are of the privileged section. Hmmm I wonder why that is.

[@martingalster3058]

You could get solar for the Tesla

[@jessemontano762]

The "climate" onlu seems stable. With patterns repeating within some high and low limits. No. Its changing..contantantly.

[@rickyrayrosenberg420]

no no no. According to gospel - the climate was utopian and unalterable throughout the world at the exact optimum for human habitation right up until 1850 when suddenly there was weather and from then on floods, droughts, cold spells and heat waves were the only weather that exists. Before 1850 - there were no hurricanes or wildfires. So it was written in the Gospel Of Greta :: Praise be to the UN.

[@jessemontano762]

@@rickyrayrosenberg420i see....

[@macgp44]

You're full of shit, Ricky. No one has ever claimed that. Prove me wrong. Provide just one citation.

[@dmere123ify]

Changing but not randomly. We have the ability to clearly see the pattern, and the near certain destination if we don’t make drastic changes. We can always choose ignorance but the likely cost of that choice is extremely high.

[@rickyrayrosenberg420]

@@dmere123ify I get that you have been well indoctrinated. I get that you don't or cannot accept the idea that infilling past temperatures that are wildly greater than actual measured temperatures for regions based on models that cannot be observationally verified calls the whole hypothesis into question. I get that you have ben trained to think we have accurate models. I get that you have NOT been following the failed predictions of these models for the past 60 years. I understand how well indoctrinated you are - and based on your perception just of this issue - I can accurately predict all of the rest of your ideological perspectives . You folks have been programmed with a package deal ideology and you have been trained to think any lack of faith in your package deal ideology is actually a moral shortcoming. You may not be aware of it - but when you put your mask on to drive down the road to get your third booster - maybe it might dawn on you that climatological science is as vulnerable to ideological capture as epidemiology.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

"Peoplekind". Oh, he's one of them.

[@soupbonep]

I find it ironic that Shermer's videos get all of the snake oil/get rich quick ads. Any decent skeptic will roll their eyes at "take this and lower your blood sugar while you sleep," hokum.

[@Brooke95482]

The last group that planted trees allowed most of them to die.

[@silvertube52]

Yeah, most of the tree planting stuff is just a ruse. I wouldn't count any tree unless I planted it myself.

[@okaro6595]

By his logic JFK was not murdered as there never was a trial. You sure can be a victim even if someone is not convicted.

[@robdielemans9189]

I might started out as a 2-party system. We now have all the evidence that it is more like a 2-tribe system.

[@trainerdisability]

I think you are not taking into account the making of the Tesla. Huge carbon emissions

[@silvertube52]

Pretty sure reliable investigation has shown that the production of electric vehicles does not result in substantially more carbon emission relative to internal combustion vehicles. It would have to be much higher to cancel the reduction from operation of the EV when using mostly solar, wind, or hydro power sources.

[@trainerdisability]

@@silvertube52 you need to look at the whole process. Build, running, powering and then disposal… is it really friendlier to the environment

[@TransparencyandMerit]

It seems like we’re living in Pol Pots America

[@egoncorneliscallery9535]

Oh boy, Michael the carbon footprint guy, global warming heatwave and all the platitudes that come with it. I am so disappointed..not a trace of skepticism here.

[@silvertube52]

Not clear what you're trying to say. Discussion of one's carbon footprint can be criticized for amplifying the shift of responsibility from corporate and government collective action to individual responsibility, and thus allowing corporate entities to pollute without consequences. Or it could be criticized for accepting anthropogenic climate change. In either case you're assuming Michael is not skeptical or has not fully considered the issues, but you don't say why you're making that assumption.

[@sircharlesnot]

Ergo - CNN/NYT/MSNBC

[@AndrewDoe777]

Yeah... a professor in Iowa, and media-person Shermer have deep wisdom of race? Give me a break. You guys live in the nice white-world. Go work as a city bus driver in Baltimore, or on a night shift at a 7-11 in Detroit for a year, and get an apartment on those earnings (don't live in your nice white neighborhoods) - then tell me something about race.

[@silvertube52]

How would you interpret things if someone dismissed your thoughts and opinions because of your race or social class? The only legitimate opinion is the one you decide is authentic? You have to build a case for where precisely their perception is wrong and why, not merely dismiss them.

[@Sakurapedaler]

I think Bloom's body of written work, and his lived experience as a Jewish American and skilled journalistic interviewer, make him well positioned to have a conversation about this topic.

[@AndrewDoe777]

@@silvertube52 I have been dismissed for a variety of reasons, including race and social class. That's the parlance of our strange times. These guys are armchair critics, and I'm calling them out. They have no real skin in the game, that's the only case I care to build, and that's because it's fundamental to everything else. Being isolated from the streets while commenting on the streets discredits every forthwith idea. But I concede. You have a point. There were specific assertions that inspired me to call them out. I don't remember what they were and I don't have time to review the vid, so I'm tapping out. Thanks for your response and being willing to discuss. Wish I had more time. All the best.

[@AndrewDoe777]

@@Sakurapedaler I think it's the exact opposite. Jewish people are THE strongest, most privileged minority in this country, if not the world. I've seen or heard stories of few street-tough, lower-class jews, but they are far and few between... you may have had more luck finding those kinds in the earlier part of the 20th century, when the Ashkenazim fled Europe to places like New York. Or you might find some street-tough Russian Jews in more recent years, but this guy? I highly doubt it. I could be wrong, but based on the way he talks, his appearance, and mannerisms, he grew up privileged and protected from the harshness.

[@AndrewDoe777]

@@Sakurapedaler Addendum - I will give you Gene Simmons. That guy is a badass. I'm sure he could handle himself anywhere. And Captain Kirk.. and Spock... okay, there's a bunch of them.

[@sircharlesnot]

His point on news is correct but he implied that the problem was Trump - What is this guy talking about?!?!

[@aejmama4111]

Jane was the example of a communist dictator.