Server Meshing is Actually Doing Better Than Expected! What’s Next? (Ft. Hybrid V Audio)

Overr the last few weeks Star Citizen has technically achieved it’s 2017 stated goal of a server meshed environment. While there is plenty more work to be done until it runs as needed for the game at large, early results are impressive. With almost 800 players ina single system, jump points leading players to Pyro, and tip top performance like we haven’t seen before, there’s a lot to talk about. Today I’m joined by Hybrid V Audio to discuss the impressive first tests of server meshing, and what comes next.
Today’s Guests:
Hybrid V Audio
KZbin: youtube.com/@HybridVAudio?si=...
Twitter: Hybrid_V
ToC:
00:00 Introductions
04:50 How Did You Get into Star Citizen
12:50 When Did Server Meshing Talk Start?
18:00 Static Server Meshing Features & Performance
39:50 800 Person Servers!!!
51:00 The Quantum Simulation
55:00 Yeah We Got Off Track
01:11:30 The Most Unique Scenarios We Could See
01:18:30 The Rest of The Year Ahead
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Video Podcast: • Launch Sequence Podcas...
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#starcitizen #spacetomato #servermeshing

[@Sir_f4ttius]

Whenever I land, I imagine hybrid lurking nearby. So I land accordingly. Fun.

[@BobWobbles]

Lol, me too

[@amou2409]

Yeah he’s indirectly improving our landing game for sure kol

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

HYBRID IS WATCHING

[@jbirdmax]

lol I’ve started landing decoupled because of him.

[@Kevlar-78]

Agreed.

[@STARJUMP_GRIM]

The dream of Star Citizen is all of these interconnected gameplay loops working together. Server meshing is the fabric that those connections all take place within. Glad to see it coming together

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

That famous backend 🎉

[@freelancerthe2561]

@@SpaceTomatoToo If they showed the front end, it would get a hard AO rating.

[@Alphasabre]

I got to do the Test with the 800 player shard, and it was great but it seemed like the back end was extremely overloaded once we hit the upper cap.

[@kbutler0615]

Which is to be expected the first time around

[@violetvex4154]

and on only two servers

[@scape_test]

800 is crazy...and only on two servers? Exciting times

[@biotechisgodzilla]

Was wild and unstable but better than 3.18 lol

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Oh I bet! I'm surprised it's gone that far.

[@RyoninShonin]

Many of us who saw the citcon meshing demo were in tears. The tech preview test was the same, a lot of positive emotion seing and experiencing what they promised. Thank you, CIG! Thank you for the great content. Enjoy hearing your perspective!

[@Ogata123]

“The planet youre on turns inside out” Or crusader just completely disappears lol

[@Unknown_Calrissian]

The entire idea behind Star Citizen was if I recall correctly, that you would be able to start out as a nobody. And from this point you would be spending your initial time on your spawn location. Of course we all have our starter ship which is supposed to get us around the first planet and moons. It might be hard to imagine now, when we get to 1.0 I'm pretty sure it won't be that easy to get rich fast for someone who just bought a game package. And the costs of running the bigger ships from the get go will be significant, so it might be difficult even for us who have a fleet already. And this is where Org gameplay comes in. So yeah I'm still hyped even after all those years.

[@AUserName-fv8zj]

The problem with this vision is it requires a enormous amount of content all over the system. Like I remember them saying how they want travel to be fairly rare, where players can stick to a single system or even a single planet for most of their lives… but in order for this to be a reality, it requires each planet as much things to do as an entire gameworld has in other games. A new player starting around their homeplanet makes sense, but it wont be long until the content there dries up and you want to explore further. After all this time it seems more likely the game won’t have enough content for that exactly, but there’ll be enough to do in each system where you could stay there for quite a long time before moving on elsewhere, and making longer trips that likely bring more profit. For 1.0 at least (which will be neither feature nor content complete) I think we’ll be moving around not so differently to today, but with more distance we can travel with a few more systems on top of stanton, and more missions and content to get stuckin to… but it won’t be so much content that you could keep your character on 1 planet for super long periods of time.

[@Unknown_Calrissian]

@@AUserName-fv8zj Good point, I don't see them doing this. For now 1.0 would require pes and dynamic server meshing to be in a decently stable state. For this alone I can't wait 🤤

[@freelancerthe2561]

@@AUserName-fv8zj The REAL problem is that too many players don't have much experience in combined arms settings. It basically boiled down to "why don't I have a space ship in a space game?"; and I can't fault the devs for assuming this is what the average player is like. But the added irony is that most gamers can't immediately wrap their minds around "extensible vehicle systems" as game play design concept, as they're too used to distinct modes of play. FPS is FPS mode, Space is Space mode, and never the twain shall meet. They like the "idea" of seamless movement.... but after awhile you realize they hate any kind of down time, to where they start demanding fast travel for everything. Consider how many complain about the train ride to the space port. For most games, they'd only do that in the opening as way to do a set piece moment.... and from then on its just short cut to and from whatever acts as the ship's interface. For SC, the train is part of the world space, so it always exists, it has to be used because districts are separate, and letting the players bypass it leads to a lot of risk factors (as seen like that time players found a way around the Area18 no fly zone). And as my own personal gripe, I think the average player's concept of "content" is inherently flawed and unsustainable. I can best describe the issue as infinite novelty. Everything has to feel new and fresh on a routine basis, but not too fresh, or they'll think its a gimmick. The want for deep thoughtful game play mechanics, only to demand ways to automate it. The Corporate curse if you will. Endlessly making increasingly larger amounts of money, with decreasing effort, and obscured enough to not trigger imposter syndrome. NO amount of content will ever be enough. Lost Ark had 5 years of content expansions in place when it opened to the US market... and players thought this was enough content to keep them busy for a long time. That long time was about 3 months. I know a group of WoW players that went hardcore into the wilderness of MMOs, and said Lost Ark was gonna be their weekly grind session. Not even a year later, and now I'm the only one who ever brings it up. Because I need to keep pointing out how fast they blew through Lost Ark, whenever they complain about a game not having enough content at launch. Look how angry players got in Hell Divers 2 because the Devs "nerfed" the catch all Railgun, and now requires player run Unsafe mode and risk killing themselves if not careful. The weapon is still just as effective as it was before. It just takes a higher charge level to do it. But nope.... "devs ruined it". I see this same issue everywhere. Player expectations are just logically untenable. But they'll blame shift to the devs, citing retail rhetoric like "give people what they want" and "value proposition" or "respecting my time". And when the game tries and fails at it, they wax philosophic about how Devs are greedy, or incompetent, or the whole thing has bad management. And that they should follow other game's examples of success.... all the while being just as clueless as a modern executive as to why something happened to work the way it did. I say this with 100% seriousness. There were streamers and reviewers.... people you'd think would be at least a little bit more aware of the infrastructure side of the house, and the long history troubled launches..... giving the dumbest hot take I've heard in a long time. When Hell Divers 2 launched, they (the Devs) should had known they were going to get 100s of thousands of players, and built their back end infrastructure to scale up from the beginning. This is following the servers being overloaded, because the first Hell Divers game only had 20,000 to 50,000 concurrent peak. So the devs "obviously should had prepared to have around 500,000 players on launch day". This reflects my problem with how people like to talk about server meshing in SC at the moment... "it just infinitely scales to match whatever". I used to say something similar... "its theoretically possible to have it scale infinitely, 'assuming you had the resources for it'."; as in "yeah this can work, if you understand the caveats.". I don't think people understand the caveats. That includes the people who said "it will never work, because [caveats]".

[@Kevlar-78]

Awesome show ! Love Hybrid V ! Two awesome content creators ! 🍻

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Much appreciated!

[@BesteWare]

Server meshing working is the holy Grai of MMORGS - if they manage to get dynamic server meshing doen within 5 years oh man I'd be so gratefull about it!

[@internet_tough_guy_]

So I shouldn't tell you MO2 can host up to 4k concurrent players? Or that Starbase hosted 10,000 concurrent players on one server, Or that DU hosted 30,000 concurrent players on its version of meshing? 800 Player servers isn't even a Rust lobby lol.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

yes but they are not simulating physics for every item in the universe. ​@@internet_tough_guy_

[@404fox9]

but I want to play star citizen at scale not those games I haven't played planetside 2 in a while

[@UnderdogSMO]

@@internet_tough_guy_ thats not the same thing

[@joshuahackman2407]

@@internet_tough_guy_ I dont know about those other games but mo2 had a very very rough time with 4k players and they haven’t had a player base that high since. They can do maybe 5-700 player battles but even then its very rough.

[@vengefuldevil5195]

If they have static working, Dynamic is just a matter of time. Load balancing based on nodes is a pretty easy concept. This will take time to perfect though, get ready for bugs that will be "certified Alderaan moments." The biggest hurdles are over techwise, design will still either make or break us.

[@Neltherya]

About the overpopulation issue, a couple years back there was a tech preview for procedurally generated interiors, i believe Sean Tracy did that presentation with a showcase of how it would work for Arccorp. It seems they improved their interior creation tech over the years so it's not improbable that they would create bigger landing zones in the future if the player count justifies it. Area-18 could get new districts (Area18-b, c, d ...) connected with the current transit system, New Babbage could get a couple smaller spaceports and fill more buildings with interiors, Orison can also get more landing pads and use the future NPC system to load/unload cargo on temporary floating pads when it gets really crowded and so on. There's enough room in most places to expand landing zones so i'm pretty sure we'll see something similar to this once server meshing is implemented on live.

[@vorpalrobot]

While I think we'll be surprised at what they accomplish in the next 20 years, I think there's some limitations to that dream. I could see that in a single player game, but any server covering a few dozen players walking random "streets" in arccorp will spawn hundreds of thousands of NPCs.

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

There was serious thoughts on my end they would fail and do some sorts of hybrid or classic restrictions, 800 players pre-pre-alpha is really IMPRESSIVE!!!

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Pumped to see to where it goes!

[@Terrince_Tate]

I'm happy with the progression of Star Citizen. An ambitious game like this takes time. With Squadron 42 being finished and in the polish phase, I can't wait to see what CIG isn't talking about that will make the game even better.

[@lordr1800]

im playing a game that just released called cities: skylines II. it's good, but nothing like C:S I, which took 8 years of DLCs to get to the 'perfection' it apparently has achieved. C:S II has issues, and i think a lot of promises were made and broken because they thought they could fix it before and didn't understand the depth of the issues. I love the game, even with its faults. I EXPECTED it to be worse (C:S I usually broke after a new dlc for WEEKS because modders didn't update their stuf and the developers tell anyone what changed. it wasn't like it ran flawlessly even without mods, but everyone wants to act like this stuff never happened) and I'm glad works so well. beta would've helped, but i think they either didn't have the resources for a beta, or they were pushed to ship something. they're still bug fixing months after release. And this is with a REAL GAME!! This stuff is getting exponentially harder, and these developers are expected to ship nonsense by a deadline or their publisher will cut them off. can you imagine what we would have if CIG was to work under that? IT WOULD FAIL. not because its not a good idea, not even because its not possible, but because it took too long. most major developments are iterations over time. CIG is being forced to develop tech that many would like 8n their games, but can't be bothered to make, even if we'd pay for it. the PES issues point to a lack of understanding by even the industry on what is needed, because when they explained why they were having problems, i realized their 'solution' would fail because the industry thinks this is just video game dbs talking to each other, not a simulation model tracking billions of data points in real time. server meshing is building on this, and introducing the idea of possibly millions of data points operating independently of (or in conjunction with) other external inputs. in real time. I'm fine with the current financial model. nobody is forcing us to spend money, that's how free will works. if i can spend 200/mo on a game that guarantees it will be a waste no matter what, i can spend that much on star citizen and be okay with funding the project. I knew better what I was getting into, I'm fine with it.

[@SpaceTomato]

Love Cities Skylines 2, but yeah the downgrade has been disappointing. CIG has taken a long time on this, but I'd be surprised to see anybody do this with a traditional publisher relationship.

[@charlesdci7120]

When 1.0 drops, CR should place a mug somewhere in a forest and see if anyone finds it.

[@Crittek]

That would be kinda cool. Like a unique commemorative mug and a screenshot for a hint.

[@Anonnymouse53]

CR's mug needs to be a legendary item that gives +100% damage, at the cost of 200% movement speed!

[@KaryudoDS]

I remember them mentioning that in a case where an area became over populated that they'd end up creating instances of it. The instances would technically be a part of the same shard though. I don't remember if this was a function of the dynamic meshing or not, but it could be done in a static model theoretically too.

[@scape_test]

Comment for the Algorythm. Great chat though, progress in 2024 as a whole is so refreshing.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Thank you o7

[@NiksSofa]

ohno, i don't visit for a month or 2 and suddenly: Beard! :)

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Oh it's just the new character customizer :P

[@NiksSofa]

@@SpaceTomatoTooah, still in beta then? :D

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

@@NiksSofa pre-alpha. Beta will come soon™ 😉

[@Fernsie-1138]

Great guest! I’m definitely subscribing to Hybrid V Audio. Nice work Tomato!

[@k_f_c_killa169]

i was on tech preview yesterday and the desync was way better than in live. it was so nice to see all the players walking and not teleporting.

[@kennethjensen730]

Hybrid V audio is the clone of Avenger one, that actually likes Master Modes. He is the one we need.

[@kbutler0615]

First time seeing or hearing from him, and I agree. He's a pleasure to listen to, and has a great outlook and well-thought-out and fair opinions on the game, both in its present, and for its future. A1 can seem very narrow-minded a lot of the time (especially with MM). Very smart and talented person, but not the best at looking at the big picture for the game.

[@midwestisbest1]

He's really not that smart, he just likes to use a lot of jargon.

[@tlove21]

If I can catch alien creatures and raise them on a farm. I will literally be doing a Pokemon gameplay loop.

[@whowhowhowhowhowho8139]

I am supriced how little people commented on this... Server meshing finally at hand damn it!

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

🎉🎉🎉

[@whowhowhowhowhowho8139]

@@SpaceTomatoToo server meshing is the feature which opens the flood gates, because it allows for deployable gadgets and creatures... This brings planets alive!

[@nicholasgeisler1290]

I'm one of those people that has been waiting and waiting for the support role medical gameplay that type of stuff. So it's excited to see some of these other things coming along because I know that finally the next mechanics that will be coming in are the support kind of roles

[@atrior7290]

The gameplay I backed the project for are drone gameplay, Repair, Rearm and Refuel, Escorting missions, exploration, minelaying&defusing and search&rescue. To me at least the "game" right now is nothing more than a tech demo because none of the gameplay I'm interested in is in this. I don't mind, I'm patient, but it's not the game yet.

[@Eagle6Airsoft]

Read / writes can sometimes cause the biggest performance hangs, it’s often a trade off verses trying to render huge scenes and players and ai. I still think it’s the best method but will be interesting seeing how they handle hangs from just spawning in a bunch of players flying past to then despawn them as they go out of render. What if 20 ships come into render, are they going to tell your client to prerender 20 ships, ready for them to come into render. Complicated that’s for sure.

[@piotrolo5065]

I honestly backed this project to fly a ship, not to do bunkers. As for responding to beacons.. I do not have an issue with responding to them, but they appear and go away before I notice it, I hope the new UI will have a beacon board of some kind, even if they are there only for 1min :)

[@simonm7590]

Elite Dangerous handled space ports really well. They had port speeds enforced by a fine so you could exceed them but take the consequences. They had queue systems so if there physically weren’t any more landing slots guess what? You had to be patient and wait your turn of you wanted to complete a mission here. Love your idea about not needing a ship to play SC. With all systems fully implemented it would be cool to have just you and your space RV moved across the verse and dropped on another planet to explore.

[@stormwolf3255]

Regarding 'maximum' server caps, I hope it's 'whatever the servers can comfortably handle'... because when we get proper multicrew gameplay (resource management) in large capital ships (Idris etc) we will have up to maybe 50 people on one ship alone. Org battles and raids on Distribution Centres all need to happen with the 'backdrop' of 'normal' star system activity going on as usual. Ultimately I'd like to see dynamic server meshing handling several thousand players (per star system), but with the chat system far more localised to the current planetary sphere.

[@furyiv]

A guy in my org has landing anxiety because he's scared that Hybrid is watching 🤣

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

HYBRID IS WATCHING

[@user-bs8xe4dy1i]

Once you have the basic server meshing technology, the dynamic meshing, as mind blowing as it will be is mostly logic applied to 3D mapping and location tracking. I believe the dynamic server meshing will be relatively simple to code with the 3D mapping having been already written. I expect that most of the functions will be already integrated into the 3D mapping. CIG is walking a fine line between not being playable and attracting massive play. CIG needs to make a fairly quick leap into playability to increase their profitability. The cost of networking is high so too many players for too long is highly undesirable. They need to increase profitability at the same time as increasing play time, this will require 4.0 or maybe even 1.0. I am hoping 4.0 is a bump in playability, but they could do things to throttle it. I believe that they have been throttling all along.

[@davewills6121]

Im cool with CIG's deliverance on the PU, it seems thay haven't been resting on their laurals all this time, and its all coming to fruition, slowly but surely with the core componets being slowly massaged into the concept. 2024 looks to be an interesting year packed with content and Pyro of course. SQ42 could be Ok, yet i doubt it, it'll be corny and cheesy with a lot of tie-ins to the PU and MT, i have a copy on one of my accounts, yet i dont want it on my main. We will see

[@zebzdead2488]

Just a fun thought, because I love airforceproud... Let players run ATC 😮 lol. Love the video. Really has me excited for everyone. Smoother gameplay would be such a huge QOL improvement for everyone in the community.

[@Venhili]

No offense, but letting players run atc at major landing zones is a terrible idea, maybe at org bases and stuff like that, but never anywhere that you need to go to sell, repair, refuel, etc

[@Traumglanz]

Just a reminder, eve-online has almost 9000 star systems running on their server cluster. ;-) And wow had at least a few thousand concurrent players per "server" and a few hundred per zone. So yes, the scale that Star Citizen is aiming for is much bigger, but we are not yet there, we are still not even close to that. Static Server meshing is not the technological marvel that we expect with dynamic server meshing, especially on how fluid we expect it to work in the end.

[@SpaceTomato]

Nope, we are definitely nowhere near Star Citizen's real goal!

[@UnderdogSMO]

even now what SC dose is fundamentaly different then WOW or EVE

[@ITHYANDEL]

I'm always torn between wanting to be able to fly right away, or having to play a few hours before being able to. With a game as big as star citizen, gating could literaly open a new game to the player. Having everything available from the get go could cheapen the experience. Almost like finishing a game to find out you just unlock the next phase.

[@EeroafHeurlin]

Proper ATC approach and leaving splines are going to be needed, the old implementation sucked in many many ways but the idea is very valid. Edit and make not following ATC instructions a crime, not enforced by magic but by distortion and tractor turrets.

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

Was Tony Z working on server meshing? I need to know who from start to completion worked on THOSE elements to form aetver meshing as a whole.

[@FuriousImp]

Typed on a keyboard. I can tell by that horizontally shifted left hand haha ;)

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

No, he was overseeing the PU and working on the systemic services and tools team.

[@LucidStrike]

57:19 I've been saying the whole time that it won't actually matter how long it took if it's good enough eventually. Almost all detractors and former players will come back eventually, because logically they ARE interested in the premise and no one else is even pursuing it yet. 🤷🏿‍♂️ "I'm done with the game 🤬" No, you're taking an indefinite break. "The first thing is not to fool yourself - and you are the easiest to fool of all."

[@BobWobbles]

I have it in my head that there could be one server in any given shard that it solely dedicated to NPC activity. Is there any reason that's not a good and/or workable idea?

[@Roboticus_Prime_RC]

Did you see the Reddit post with the fully crewed Idris?

[@vontak59]

Hybrids the reason we care . never get caught lacking lol practice your landings daily .

[@MyAmazingUsername]

Full persistence is an extremely bad idea. I say that as a programmer with 30 years experience. What will happen is this: Players will run around like rabbits, multiplying the clutter in the world until every server has to simulate billions of objects. Think about a ship salvage mission. You fracture it and move on. You have created about 30 floating objects which all simulate physics and float forever on the server. Now imagine 100000 players all grinding salvage missions for money. Within a month you have millions or even billions of objects. They will need to implement time based object culling (cleanup). To trim away the oldest objects. It is not even debatable. It is NOT possible, technologically, to keep simulating all the clutter forever. No matter how much Chris at CIG wishes it was possible. It would require terabytes of RAM and thousands of CPUs. But even long before then, the persistence layer database would crash. It would also be a terrible experience for the players due to the extreme game lag caused by streaming millions of clutter objects endlessly to each player. So no, full persistence will not happen. But something that FEELS like it will definitely happen. They will 100% add a cleanup factor to it, such as cleanup robots or cleanup NPC crew ships. Or even object rusting and natural disintegration.

[@kbutler0615]

I don’t think anyone expects it to be full perpetual persistence. Nor do I think that’s what CIG is planning

[@MyAmazingUsername]

​​@@kbutler0615They released a trailer announcing their plans to let items stay forever. They showed some item in the ground (I think it was a plushie doll or a ship wreck) and then a timelapse of thousands of years. It is obviously never gonna work that way in game. But Chris has a habit of dreaming too big. :)

[@EeroafHeurlin]

AFAIUnderstand the combat service beacons are kind of a test-bed for Quantum Simulation.

[@Zombiesmoker]

The server recovery was really fast?? it took 1 min at tops...

[@MrCaptainWTF]

If they fix the AI for fps combat I’ll never play another game

[@CrowDawg11]

I don't think the apparent lack of excitement about server meshing is so much that people don't *care*, as much as that people have learned - rightfully so over 10 years - to be very, very skeptical of claims like this. I think a lot of people might start to care a lot more once it's actually in their hands (not evo only) and working.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

I think there's plenty of excitement about it amongst folks who follow the project closely. There are no claims, we are already playing in the server meshed game

[@ulvemann43]

About the point that some people will never want to touch ships, yeah, that's definitely a group of players. My BF has no interest in flying any of the ships. He wants to shoot stuff, or be an engineer. So turret gunner and engineer is his forte.

[@FeathersMcClaw]

I just saw a post from a month ago on r/MMO where someone was unironically asking if Star Citizen was the big scam in gaming history. It boggles my mind that there are still people who think that.

[@Gibblets411]

You aren't allowed to talk positively on reddit. None of them are interested in a real discussion, they just hear the game described in the worst light and assume that is that.

[@MyAmazingUsername]

1:03:00 ish in the video: When you talk about how people who don't play the game are super angry that people are playing the game .. I felt that. People have no idea how good it already is. It is a super fun GAME. Yes. This is my favorite GAME. Mutahar (Some Ordinary Gamers) was actually the person who did the biggest harm to this game. His completely clueless video shows that he has barely even spent a second learning anything about the game. He spends 2 hours ranting about it. He created a legion of misinformed people. But eh whatever. The game is super fun and I am in it, that's all that matters to me. He did that rant 2 years ago. It was the first time I heard about the game. It looked so cool. But due to his rant I never tried it. I got involved a bit in November last year. Still influenced by his criticism I was not impressed. Finally I joined a month ago and it made me drop all other games immediately!

[@MrUnbekabal]

See you in the Black! 😅

[@hephaestion12]

What percentage of people watching this are new players? I am curious, i have been assuming a low percentage, but possibly sc followers have a high degree of turnover.

[@Averagemeatball]

I play since last citizen con thingy

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Depends what you mean by new. More than half the player base has joined since 2020, so most players are pretty "new" relatively speaking.

[@redslate]

There are many backers that don't actively play, but will be regulars upon release. It's not uncommon to see players jump in, scope the current state, play for a bit, then leave for entire months at a time. I wouldn't classify those players as "turnover."

[@user-vd4xy8ru1h]

Duel universe did dynamic server meshing. Granted the game died. But that was not due to the tech. The tech worked.

[@FuriousImp]

What type of game was it? Did it offer similar scope and size? Same broad gameplay mechanics? Can you speak on the technical aspects in comparison with SC?

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Really? Do you have a source for this, it'd actually be very helpful in videos going forward. I thought they only achieved static meshing.

[@user-vd4xy8ru1h]

@@SpaceTomatoToo There was not a ton on it. But here is a video they did early on. kzbin.info/www/bejne/an3Jd6WalMSdn9E I can only assume they achieved it since when I played back in open beta there were over 10k players playing at the same time. Either way that video has a good example of it in action

[@Katzh]

"how much of a game need it to be for being a game" Helldivers 2, Baldur 3 level. as long as it's in "The Day Before" uncomplete game, it will not retain player attention. There's some cool stuff to see right now sure, but the gameplay is not complete at all. I'm an old backer, concierge, and I haven't logged in in years, I don't want to be bored of it already once it release, I want to keep my hype for it. I don't think it's really good to sink thousand of hours in it in that state. everything took so long.. although this years is quite cool, with all the tech coming together. Also a new player that know nothing about the project will just discover new cool thing. But when you know the project for years, you know how much is missing, and it's so daunting to wait, and wait and wait...

[@jbirdmax]

I’ve never been too concerned with getting server meshing working since it already exists. We’ve all used it without knowing, every time we do a Google search or shop on eBay. The “big one” that concerns me is player owned and operated stores and kiosks. The other reason CIG shelved the BMM. Quanta is interesting for general and controlled economics, but again already exists. And it’s just background number crunching. Economics will change Star Citizen forever. I hope CIG can find someone who actually knows what they’re doing. Someone more concerned with economics than an over engineered, archaic software.

[@beardedbarnstormer9577]

Server meshing didn't existike this in a game. It's one thing to load balance Google search it's another thing to seamlessly mesh two servers and allow someone to fire from server A to server B and show it happening in real time to both. I get what you're saying but it's hella reductive to what they accomplished

[@jbirdmax]

Indeed it comes off as deductive. That was partially intentional to send home the point. But is it deductive though? Take eBay for example, you get about 1000 shoppers with their account details, shopping history, what they have in their shopping carts, etc. and fill up a server that has become lopsided. (That’s where for example the server started in or near LA in California with say 119 shoppers. Then 880 shoppers log into that server from the East coast of North America to view whatever sale is prominent on that particular server. (As apposed to spinning up another)) the server meshing tech will (or can) have all these people who have joined in an auction and split the server into three across North American seamlessly, whilst keeping all active stuff going. This can be megabytes of data (that’s more than most games will use for each player) per shopper, just to keep their individual adds, active shopping and account information all seamless. But to be fair, this has never been done in a game before. And having players moving, flying and shooting all at once without strange anomalies is a feat of technical wizardry. But that wasn’t my point. My point was that I personally (being a game developer myself) was never concerned about whether or not the tech wizards at CIG could get an existing non game tech to work in an MMO like Star Citizen. Okay maybe I was just a tad bit concerned. But my point was rather how ridiculously complex economies are to design and implement than a pre existing technology. True game economics are nothing new, but to get it right in a game like Star Citizen? Important as it gets.

[@jbirdmax]

@@beardedbarnstormer9577but you’re right 100% I shouldn’t downplay what CIG is accomplishing here.

[@beardedbarnstormer9577]

@@jbirdmax I can't tell if you know how servers work. A bunch of people bidding on an eBay item is done ever so asynchronously. Even now most of what you are referring to would be handled by Kafka across servers in an event stream. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

[@jbirdmax]

@@beardedbarnstormer9577 oh I’m nowhere near a network engineer. I’ve done work on what you might call server meshing for another well known shopping network. And I wouldn’t pretend to know much more about server networking than the limited knowledge I’ve gleaned from my short two year experience.

[@VFW-Mayer]

All of the tech has been proven in house, this is just them load balancing and using it with peoples pc's across the world.

[@Marlax-101]

they manually make the tech then AI enters and complete the tech in a few months.

[@nicksellman6661]

The true star citizen experiance is going to be wild.

[@Damiv]

Why would that be fun for someone to run off with your box and cause you to fail a mission? That’s just annoying and frustrating. Nothing fun about that.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Unfortunately I don't remember what this is responding to, but there are many missions in singleplayer games that are framed with your objective being taken and you needing to get it back. There are interesting ways to do it!

[@Damiv]

@@SpaceTomatoToo That must be for a different kind of player then. If I was ever doing a box mission and some other player ran off with my box, I'd just abandon the mission and take a new one.

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

Its easy over a decade of yearly awards and door opening gsmeplay to the rest of the world of games

[@critic_empower_joke_rlaxtslife]

Negative arguments once game is gold and out unless CIG don't hit promises are rightfully entitled brats too young in their brain and should not have access to any social medias but keep them together on chumptube. No game development is a straight shot unless a rehash a.k.a battlefield series for example. Even then, they often resort to killing their own game just to not be toooo late of a production.

[@Traumglanz]

No, the FPS AI is pretty decent, the one in space, is brain dead even on a 30 FPS Server.

[@yourmother3569]

I may be wrong but I think it's purposefully dumbed down so as to not be prohibitively difficult for new players

[@swiftbow2110]

Amazing what happens when you stop buying ships (nothing since 2021). Maybe we will eventually get a game.

[@R1PPA-C]

Did you not see how much they made over the free fly event just before Xmas ?...just because you stopped buying ships doesn't mean everyone else is doing the same thing

[@FuriousImp]

@R1PPA Did you see how much they spent?

[@R1PPA-C]

@@FuriousImp a touch under 30 million in 2 weeks wasn't it ? I aren't talking about how much cig have or haven't spent if that's what you're getting at... I'm answering the op's statement about ships apparently not being bought anymore

[@D.Enniss]

@57:30 I thought you'd know better by know? Since when has it been too much time Tomato? CIG has done a stellar job with the time they've had. It's completely unfair to say it's been too long, in fact *it's ignorant,* it bloody hasn't been too long and you know exactly why it hasn't :| You know the history of the company, you know there's SQ42, stop measuring their work with SC alone. Perpetuating this idea that CIG has taken to long to get here is an insult to all the hard work that has been done.

[@CarbonPixel78]

He was referring to "people commenting and giving feedback" that were saying that.

[@kbutler0615]

He was referencing other people saying that, not his own thoughts or opinions

[@terencespragg5708]

You might have to apologise for getting it wrong about him saying that it was him saying some player were saying that. I agree with you about the rest you said.😊

[@R1PPA-C]

Waaaaaahhhh

[@Pharesm]

OMG Get to the point!

[@internet_tough_guy_]

This is extreme cope considering in 2019 Chris boasted Meshing would get them to 4k to 40k concurrent players per shard lol. Also the fact that 800 player servers were basically unplayable and 30k even more than regular servers lol. Yep its lookin great. With Server Error Please Wait hanging people for 5-15 minutes per recover (Loading Please Wait, completely different than, Server Error Please Wait.) Can't wait for more tests of tech games like PS2 had 12 years ago, but it actually worked in their case lol.

[@koo-hip9406]

I mean, you can always take a break and come back when things aren't in their testing phase. Everyone knows this tech has been taking forever. Sounds like you're complaining just to complain right now.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Honestly in the road to release I remember him saying "thousands of players". Regardless, the progress seems to be going well since their first attempt back in September. We'll see how it goes!

[@Mindbulletz]

I'll give the server meshing landing review a 9/10, timing and delivery was on point. 😂🫡

[@R1PPA-C]

This is probably one of the better videos out there on this weekends testing. some great questions being asked and Hybrid's rundown is 🤌🏻

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Hybrid was great to talk to! Thanks for watching

[@R1PPA-C]

@@SpaceTomatoToo it's rare I stick around for a video of this length unless it's music related but it was well worth it, you asked a lot of q's that I've had on my mind for a while and some. Subbed