Is Star Citizen 3.23 Still a Good Update? (Ft. SaltEMike) | Launch Sequence Podcast

2 months ago Star Citizen KZbinr SaltEMike joined me on the show to discuss his feelings for Star Citizen Alpah 3.23. They were hype. Since then some items have been added to the update, and some (big ones) removed. Today we have a chance to reconvene and discuss the latest feelings about how these features actually ended up feeling in-game, whether the update still feels as exciting, and honest thoughts about persistent hangars and cargo updates being delayed. Enjoy!
Today’s Guests: SaltEMike
Twitch - Twitch.tv/SaltEMike
KZbin - / saltemike
Twitter - Twitter.com/SaltEMike
ToC:
00:00 Introductions
09:20 Server Meshing & Star Citizen 1.0
18:40 Is 3.23 Still Hype?
50:00 Cargo & Hangar Delays & Updates
01:09:45 But IS 3.23 REALLY Still Hype?
01:19:10 The Game is Becoming A Game. Is This Bad?
Audio Podcast: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/sh...
Support Space Tomato & WATCH THE POD LIVE:
Patreon: / spacetomato
Paypal: paypal.me/SpaceTomatoPays?loc...
Gaming Community: / discord
Star Citizen Organization/Guild: gii.spacetomatogaming.com/
Start a Star Citizen account with 5000 extra credits in your pocket with the link below.
www.jointomato.com/
#starcitizen #spacetomato #servermeshing

[@MILSPECMOM]

My two favourite SC nerds! Thanks you guys it was a good listen. As for 3.23, personally a lot of the wind has been taken out of my proverbial sail however there's still enough meat on the bones to look forward to. :) o7

[@lameduckmuse5253]

Agreed. on both points.

[@danny1988221]

Only meat on the bones that matter after everything else they have crashed.. for me is, Polaris? Idris?

[@CitizenScott]

55:54 A lot is in 3.23 yeah, it's big, but not "most of what they showed." It's loads of S42 ports, and basically every feature is a partial version of what they demoed at CitCon. Master Modes? Archetypes. Interactions? FPS. Reputation? Hostility. DCs? Surface. Starmap? Partial. Minimap? Partial. Partial? Partial. They showed off Armor Progression, Specialized Armor/Undersuits, Clothing/Armor Layering Refactor, Utility Pouches, Rep-gated Clothing, Starcloth, etc., but none of it is anywhere in sight, and people still say, "we got the new Dusters gear so check off Armor." Unreal. Hangars, Cargo, Freight Elevators, and Item Banks dropped off. Where's FPS radar? Scanning refactor? Hygiene? Fire? Maelstrom? Realistic Audio? Ray tracing? Multi-threading? The list goes on... Wanna say 3.23 TOUCHES ON most of what they demoed? Okay, fair enough, but we're over halfway into their timeline, nothing's been delivered so far this year, and 3.23 is not even close to half of what they showed. Being realistic isn't negative, and being positive won't change the facts. Just sayin.

[@Valkyani]

Tomato spiced with some salt, great snack, great podcast.

[@Alkyps]

seasoned. as a chef I can't let you butcher* the things around here without a license** , when you use salt and pepper you call it seasoning. for everything else is spice or condiment ! anyway Cpt. Chef flies away

[@kenp1677]

Once they kill the NPC chair standing issue once and for all. It would be cool to hide either a statue of an npc standing on a chair or some actual npc in some back ally standing on a chair as an Easter egg. Come on they should do something ;)

[@IrisCorven]

The best part of the C1/Cutlass tractor is that you can pick up loose cargo in Armistice zones. I found what I can only assume was a despawned, FULL reclaimer that dropped all its salvage on the ground outside New Babbage. I had my buddy show up with our C2, and proceeded to use the C1 to grab all the boxes and load them straight into his cargo. Easiest payday ever.

[@chriswhatsoever2001]

This may be true, but I can't get the tractor beam to work, it seems so strange to control with my c1.. the tractor beam always throws my cargo out🥴

[@D-rizzy31]

If saltEmike spoke the way he did on this podcast to his twitch viewers, I feel like he would dramatically reduce the amount of hate he gets on his youtube channels. He has some really good points, but there is something about his delivery that is off putting. He could have a great idea or thought, but the way he says it almost makes you want to shut it down right away. I felt like this was a really great podcast with good discussion about the current patch, and both of your thoughts on the what has been going on the past few weeks.

[@georgek2574]

He can be very condescending

[@IrisCorven]

@@georgek2574 To be fair, he gets a lot of really shitty "lul vaporware" morons in his chat, when him and Tomato both show plenty of progress being made on development. People flock to Mike just to try and troll him, so it makes sense he gets - for lack of a better word - Salty. I've traded words with him before, and because I was respectful in the way I stated my opinion, he was just as respectful back. A lot of what ticks him off is when people make objective statements that he knows - from his ability to test via Evocati - are just incorrect.

[@vorpalrobot]

I believe he's from New England before Florida? Somewhere up here. Lots of "hey fuck you buddy" energy here, just how people talk/disagree.

[@thezeke8510]

It's a shame this view still holds true. I found myself feeling the same way about Mike, to the point where it was hard to consume any of his content. I will however give him credit, as there has been a significant change in how he speaks to his audience and the insulting spectators that he deals with each stream. He unfortunately had to be very stern with the audience he attracted. And it's a shame that even though he's shifting his demeanor, they still provoke him. He bans the insulting ones. I watched him ban a viewer for insinuating Jared was an alcoholic when he said he fell. Good dude.

[@digdug4123]

Yes has improved with his attitude. At first I had trouble watching his content. Then I caught one of his shoes where he admitted to his attitude problem and the issues it was giving him. Went to say how he is trying to get better and stay away from that kind of content. Though there is some issues that will get him going, but he is still a far cry from what he use to be. Good work SaltEMike.

[@Bucketnate]

Always love when Mike is on the show. You two have the best discussions

[@lukeperman7964]

I can feel a space tomato CitCon vs 3.23 patch comparison coming

[@M4cex]

Power duo with nice balance 🎉

[@gizmo104drives7]

I haven't even got star citizen yet but been watching you both for many months now.. you are both very engaging and relatable Good stuff gna enjoy this listen

[@laminatedsamurai]

I'm hoping to be able to have a split system, using a gamepad for on foot, FPS, and ground vehicles; and K+M for now, eventually HOSAS for flight. As for the starmap and markers, I can't wait to be able to have my Endeavor out above the ecliptic as a remote base and resupply station for my org. Keep the drive section out there and use the explorer cab to keep it stocked with guns, armor, meds, food, and other supplies.

[@antoniovinciguerra8982]

Great talk! I wanted to comment on the Distribution Centers... I hope they don't turn into 2024's version of the cargo decks.

[@noideas439]

For space to surface cargo, it would be really interesting (once player settlements are in) to have the people living on the surface pay the station for cargo and then a mission is given to a high-rep player to deliver to the surface

[@RN1441]

@1:20:00 I think you're right that the game NEEDED gamifying, as to this point too many of the systems were cumbersome impediments to play. With that said, I can understand why the 'sim' focused people might be let down as the marketing tries to make it sound like all things to all people when it still isn't much to anyone.

[@AccidentalFriendlyFire]

I've been saying Polaris (and of course Tali) at ILW since CitizenCon. Good to see someone else notice the utter absence of mention of it and take it the same way I did. Just because something is in other games is not a reason to include it. Like Mike said, sniper glint was going the wrong way; we are penalizing snipers instead of providing players OPTIONS so they can tell before the shot, not they automatically get warned.

[@Killingblaze]

In RL cargo goes from port, to a regional distribution center, to a local distribution center, then to your house.

[@TennysonEStead]

This is the first I’m hearing of the”R” Starmap hotkey! Holy crap, Mike and Keenan. THANK YOU.

[@GraphiteSC]

Anyone notice how they went from “Scam!” In his chat, to praising it really relentlessly?

[@IrisCorven]

A lot of Asmon's viewers are there to meme and parrot shit they hear everyone else say. The second Papa Asmon drops his thoughts, and doubles down on his belief in something, chat does a total 180 because they want senpai to notice them. It's the peril of any big streamer. Not saying Asmon doesn't have good takes - just that his fanbase will immediately agree with him if it means he might read what they say.

[@caractacuspotts680]

Great talk, gents. Fuel economy and wear and tear will determine the ship you use. Think of a little Nissan NV panel van, Fedex box truck or 18 wheeler. They all have their appropriate uses, but the little Nissan is going to be way more cost efficient if you don't need big cargo space. And remember, we are in a little fish bowl at the moment, and fuel and maintenance don't really matter. Once we have the ocean of space to contend with, these things will be huge.

[@LittleTed2]

@SpaceTomato - Good to see Tomato and Salt on my chips! :o)

[@Rauzwel]

The quantity of videos lately are really appreciated, man

[@brendenramsey3989]

Idea for making the smaller ships to be worth it too is bulk discounts. So when you have the HullC then you can buy 5000 gold but you only make like 10% on it but you have a lot. Then going from like a city to a small town you can only sell a small amount but you make 30-50% on the $1.

[@djgangstapimp]

Polaris at invictus, dont do that, dont give me hope.... But being on topic I agree in the fear that 3.23 can potentially be a 3.18 due to trying to reach that Invictus timeline. I am glad they are pushing things back like Cargo and Item banks but I think what we currently have still need more work.

[@Wh1terider]

Regarding missions. They can easily take this theme park approach as they are with overdrive and apply it to other professions, without impacting a sandbox environment.

[@lordr1800]

yes you can also see people walking around your ship

[@vagabondprime1691]

Great conversation, thank you both!

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

Take the arena commander Tank Royal map and remove the vehicles and make it a sniper rifles and pistols only mode.

[@First_Chapter]

The issue with distribution centres and cargo is that they make sense only if leaving them for a space station or arriving at them from a space station because moving between planet-side locations still needs a hop into space nonetheless.

[@digdug4123]

I hope this distribution centers will have ground vehicle delivery missions. Where you take items from them to outposts that nearby ish.

[@srick77373]

The delays for everything you do in 3.23 are going to be horrible if it goes to live. I'm really thankful that Manor Lords releases on Friday. I'll probably be playing that until they get this patch fixed.

[@canadianbacon5716]

Aint no way Polaris would be ready for ILW dont get my hopes up like that hahah x_X

[@Mantis_SC]

The 145+ item banks at LEO’s seems a bit excessive in 3.23. 12 of which in the food court seem to be placed haphazardly for an area that I feel get forgotten about when you are able to just purchase multiple bottles of CRUZ.

[@TheBodacity]

I think what Mike doesnt account for with Cargo is nobody or atleast a small minority of people are going to want to do the small runs with a large ship because your going to end up filling up 700 SCU with 1 SCU boxes and thats going to take a tremendous amount of time. Its going to be more worth it to take in a small to mid size ship to small outpost because your only going to have to do 3-70 scu manual load with small boxes where as the large cargo ships can travel from station to station using the autoloader

[@sidewithwerewolves]

I don't see the hull c doing less than a 32scu container. The c2 and caterpillar takes up to a size 32 scu container from the planet. The distro centers and small scu but high value commodities use small ones like ups trucks. Small ships vs. C2 at small outposts wouldnt necessarily make sense if cargo missions have timers. Theres already 2 type of bring commodity to place within x- time missions [quantanium mining and the one where you take the 4x 1/4 scu boxes before they die]

[@FuriousImp]

C2 is meant as a military transport ship though

[@sidewithwerewolves]

@@FuriousImp you mean the m2? the c2 is commercial/civilian. m2 is military. a2 is attack

[@FuriousImp]

@@sidewithwerewolves You are correct for now. However, the description of the C2 is "Transport" rather than "freight". With the future rework of tractor beams it will be cumbersome and difficult to use the C2 as a transport [freight] ship. That's what they had in mind. However - the recent changes in cargo mechanics and the addition of the "auto loading" feature has led me to believe that this may no longer be true. We'll see what the future brings.

[@FuriousImp]

@@sidewithwerewolves Caterpillar, Zeus, Taurus all have a tractor beam on board. C2 just has the ramp for tanks and other vehicles to ride up on.

[@catfood4142]

I just want to know their thoughts for Gatac Railen, the manual loading becoming the push or main direction of cargo hulling.. how do you load it with Railen.............

[@woodybear3823]

They haven't figured that out yet.

[@KildalSC]

I'll leave a comment quite early. I just feel that refering to the cargo cut as "the big one" is kind of funny. As with any other patch I feel like the big one could refer to the maps(starmap), the distribution centers or master modes. And personally I do actually find those more impactful than the cargo package. I'm very gameplay oriented, but even then 3.23 is a huge patch still with lots to be hyped for. I see the last section is about the game becoming a game and I absolutely love that and the recent direction it's been going. Looking forward to hear your opinions, it sure is controversial with the realism folks.

[@Roboticus_Prime_RC]

They need to model the cargo missions off of how Hotshot drivers operate IRL.

[@walawala-fo7ds]

No login until server meshing or Polaris

[@staticmass6794]

A UE (User Experience) is so welcome just in and of itself

[@Libertas_P77]

For me, yes. I don’t know why Jared thought blowing his entire pipeline of teasers in January about the patch was a good idea, as here we are months later just waiting for it all to hit. It’s going to be a fantastic patch once it’s in and crucially working and stable, but for me the hype passed weeks ago and I’m more just awaiting it being in a playable state on EPTU never mind live. It’s so broken I couldn’t even log in to test at the weekend.

[@vamperic]

Distribution centers honestly should have waiting till 4.0 when the servers could support them but oh well, it'll be one of those things that will be a shell till Meshing

[@Rippityrip]

Have they confirmed a wipe or nah?

[@aguspuig6615]

Space Tomato is allergic to tomato this is a little traumatising to learn

[@benthomson1132]

"Why tomatoes, Master Wayne?" "Tomatoes frighten me. It's time my enemies shared my dread." *(SPLAT)*

[@TedManAte]

Cannibalism is bad for you. 😂

[@flytechlive6513]

Saltmike being sweetaf? Only on Tomatoes...why am i hungry now? :D

[@Ha1rD1aper]

i can understand talking of a 1.0. although, talking about a release of 1.0 i don't understand, because it is really far off... i want to play SQ42 and am excited for it, but might just have to settle for probably one of the few games in history where the online MP/Co-Op ends up "better", because there can be substantially more time devoted to it in a long term sense. have to be careful right now as backers, because CIG is going to hit an accelerated development state... feedback will be really important in more ways than one. i would like to see the best game ever, not just the best space game ever... the hard part as a person playing a "game" and giving feedback, is letting other players excel knowing that you might never be that good at that game mechanic. the overall potential is kneecapped when players always expect things to act as they might think it would, compared to just being open to learning how it actually does.

[@outfit5103]

If polaris is done i want to do xenothreat so badly

[@JClif]

I like my tomatoes with a little salt. 😁

[@Chronoclysm17]

Honestly, it always felt they over promised on 3.23.0. I am very hyped about Cargo and Persistent Hangers, but I'm not surprised that it was pushed back. I think most of us knew something was up after we didn't see it in Evo. Look, it's disappointing, yes, but my philosophy is that it doesn't exist till it's in my hands. I would have been fine with the Star map, UI , QoL stuff and a smaller patch. But they overshadowed it with Cargo and Persistent Hangers then pulled it. It sucks and I'm sure they are just as disappointed as we are, if not more. I will still play 3.23.0, not as much as i would have before, but I'm patient and can wait.

[@tlove21]

SC community reacts to everything in some way. SC 1.0 was always slated to be after Server Meshing. It's not hard to do the math with SC. Look how long the road to release was presented. Then look at your current year. Add the same amount of years to your current years. Then you will have an almost exact estimate of a feature on that presentation release. Formula: (PresentDate-PastDate)+PresentDate = EstimatedRoadToReleaseTimelines.

[@D.Enniss]

**Expecting a .0 patch to release in the same stability state as the previous .1 or .2 patch is INCREDIBLY unrealistic!** If some people are expecting a bug free patch you're just setting yourself up for disappointment, and I honestly don't understand how some people go there, this is SC, we know how this goes, .0 patch comes in all broken, people lose their minds again for no reason, then polish comes about .1 and things start to become much better but still very much broken.

[@aguspuig6615]

Fuck Polaris, i want Perseus, PLEASE, its not efven that big of a ship, it doesnt have any crazy mechanics, its just a hammerhead with less but bigger guns PLEASE

[@extremepsych]

SalteTomato

[@Crazy-Chicken-Media]

did the one of two things I was looking forward to kill the hype for me? yes.

[@paycation3448]

"they aren't the best ai in the world but they are not that bad" 🤣

[@johnjohnson40]

Greasy Khalesi haters 😂😂😂

[@GraphiteSC]

SugarMike!

[@Roboticus_Prime_RC]

Arcade Modes is completely killing my hype for 3.23

[@soliitudegaming7275]

I have a lot of patience as a backer from kickstarter days, but I have to say its seriously disappointing that they pitched this patch as the big return of the dev team to SC and then they let us down yet again with a massive cut of two of the largest gameplay impacting features. Also leaks from internal staff were saying that they are targeting end of 2025 for 1.0, but "1.0" to them means something very different... its basically just a stable client with server meshing and a few systems.... not an actual finished star citizen. Its kinda scummy tbh because they will take in a huge amount of cash by marketing "1.0" and its not going to really be a full game. Turrets suck against fighters right now... they need to be way more threatening.

[@mayoluck]

1.0 takes us out of a tech demo into alpha then beta. They can say all they want but SC is a tech demo atm.

[@javannapoli2018]

32:00 I really think they should do a 'landing UI' sort of thing using this tech, show us the landing pad and our ship like In Elite Dangerous to make landing more convenient. Better yet, just have a 'proximity radar' sort of thing using this tech that's always displayed in the centre of your ships console that shows your ship and anything close by it.

[@mayoluck]

We had that at one point and they took it out, same with 02 pens having a use. I love how old stuff coming back that was removed is new content. DC are assets we had at Levksi, which they removed for MT.

[@extremepsych]

SpaceMike

[@j.d.4697]

Time kills hype. Hype isn't a good thing though.

[@stephenrogoff3817]

Just played for a few hours. Will definitely no longer recommend to my friends. Took a simple interface and ruined it. Looting is nearly impossible now. Flying more complicated. Many problems that didn't exist now do. Will likely loose many players, including me if it doesn't get better very quickly.

[@Badga3]

I'll keep saying that they need to make it functional before they make it pretty they have too much unnecessary decoration all over the place esspecially in the citys

[@hephaestion12]

Still not convinced 3.18 issues were resolved I havent felt pes since. I get thenimpression the object cleanup is so aggressive they basically turned it off to fix the issues 😂

[@CompleteCake]

you can verify it for yourself if you're curious. place a waterbottle somewhere on Microtech, fly to Hurston and do missions for an hour or two, then fly back to the location where you threw the bottle, and see if PES is active or not:)

[@haustierone]

i really disliked them having me on the hypetrain again, i felt bad. i dont wanna say i feel better now but i kinda do. i hope ".X" will come soon (tm). haha. hmmm.

[@IrisCorven]

As primarily a Cargo/Salvage player, and usually a Solo one, it was a bit of a kick in the teeth to hear it was being pushed back. But to be honest, it just means I have more time to play other games till 3.23.x hits.

[@leevah]

Love your intro Tomato, it's the best around

[@TFTrickster]

it does not work because EPTU is running at 1.7fps

[@watcher98]

I liked this show a lot. I will say about the sniper glint that it shouldn't appear at night because that doesn't make sense. From my own experience, iv never had problems with snipers because I can pick up generally where they will be since I do a lot of sniping. I know the most likely hiding spots and usually end up counter sniping snipers.

[@bnut1979]

Am I still hyped for 3.23? Nope. Not when, in my opinion, the biggest patch feature slipped. Am I hyped for 3.23.X? Who knows. I will continue to be sceptical of CIG efforts until they can reliably kick out multiple, back to back, and substantive patches with minimal feature slip/cuts. If CIG has shifted its SQ42 personnel and assets to SC, we need to see some real and reliable development progress. This isn't the old SC skeleton crew scraping together patches for ship sales anymore. With nearly $1B out of backer pockets to primarily fund SQ42 development and stand up studios, I feel it's time to see what most of us want...SC.

[@Spike.SpiegeI]

I'm still excited, but less so due to hangers not making it. However, they're making the right call to pull it. We can't have it both ways, they either make the smart decision and pull things that aren't ready, or they rush it in (like in 3.18) and we can't play the game because it's so unstable. I'm just hoping they can add hangers as a fast follow after Invictus.

[@ESC_907]

As a Weeb, I am extremely annoyed by the way SaltE is saying “Secura Sun”… It is Sakura Sun, no?

[@user-te3bs7vp3p]

1.0 not coming in a year, too much to fix. Server meshing coming???? Fix AI Fix Distribution Centers Fix Bugs, Bugs, Bugs Fix missions Need colors( not just blue) Cargo Delayed Hangers Delayed Feels like another 3.18 but its okay because we have we have water affects! Go play other games until they get there crap together.

[@diggz8114]

But hey! Squadron42 team is coming back to help with the PU! Development is going to be much faster! {4 months later and multiple features removed from upcoming™ patch} hey guys? Is this what faster looks like?? 😢

[@InspirationalBacon]

why even announce the features

[@BeggarsOutpost4]

No... because i only care about something new after we get it..

[@corporationi4785]

3.23 is still hyped in most servers but hope they fix the servers when they realese to live. if they dont its the end of SC

[@chiburek2769]

The letter from the chairman was just a marketing campaign, as were all the feature announcements for 3.23. With all the hype and the release of the Hornet MKII, people really pumped money up CIG's a** again, only to be disappointed in the end. We are already used to being disappointed. Why should this time be better than the other times? I'm really pissed off, not because of the features, but because CIG doesn't follow a clear line even after over 10 years of development and because they seem to have no idea how to integrate basic features into the game.

[@Xenon676]

CIG has a long history. Of taking a long time. To do very little. It's a lifestyle that it's employees. Have become accustomed.

[@N1ghtR1der666]

at citizen con i was hyped but after seeing all the content leading up to it I am not anymore, its still going to be the same shit buggy mission types on laggy ass servers. A fancy new UI and new locations doesnt make it playable when there still isnt anything to do. They really need tofocus on long storey based and large setpiece missions or I dont htink I will bother doing more than logging in to look at the starmap. Also dont forget that ships are now unaffordable so litteraly only whales like you can playing in anything other than an arura basically. I think this patch may actually make the game worse

[@Weep_TTV]

Heres some advice, log off, uninstall. Log in 1-2 years later!

[@harabecswurveweathers]

Hard disagree. 3.23 is by no means the god patch people were hyping it up to be, but it's definitely a huge step towards the vision CIG has had for SC for years now. It's the first of what will likely be many patches that pushes the features CIG has been developing for S42 for the last 4 years.

[@Gnarfendorf]

Sounds like a lot of mimimi to me, story missions were never the focus anyway, and ships being more expensive when we dont even know whats the next big money maker or exploit is gonna be is also a non-issue. So what if you cant buy your 890j day one? SC is not some singleplayer game to speedrun, i hope you realize that.

[@fffx2]

3.23 is a distraction for how quickly the game is dying

[@noideas439]

By what measure is it dying

[@walawala-fo7ds]

Cope harder 😂