it's her or me 🎄🎁 r/AITA Xmas Edition

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

I love the "call your stepmum by your birth mum's name" suggestion 😂 chaotic good energy

[@Mockingjay975]

Agreed

[@bitchenboutique6953]

I am living for that shade and I hope that’s what he starts doing from this point forward until she learns!

[@kaviweaver5152]

Can confirm this works (or at least a slightly different version) I called my mother by her first name and refused to call her "mom" again until she stopped deadnaming me It took a while. But it illustrated a point very well.

[@CaptQuinnPool]

My bosses mispronounced one of my coworkers name several times in a call (they both work shifts with her). Think Elle vs Ella (not her actual name). After a few times I stopped them, saying my boss's name wrong followed by,, "her name is Ella." My boss repeat the misprounciation of her own name questioning why I said that. I said, "you are saying her name wrong. Its Ella, not Elle" My other boss chimes in, "It doesn't matter, she's not here." I responded that its still rude, and they moved on, never saying her name again during the meeting. I now think of my bosses as Mispronounced Name and Legal Name He Hates. But it doesn't matter, right? They aren't here.

[@Mo-qb8zo]

@@kaviweaver5152 I wish it would work for my brother but he still refuses to use my name and pronouns. Nothing helps..

[@SaruCharmed]

I think asking them if they know who owns Dior and how much the employees make is about being aware of income inequality and how privileged they are, which is important to teach your kids, but this is probably not the best way to go about it...

[@Grymmorot]

Agree! But perhaps a start… but I would probably not do it for Christmas but if they wanted stuff outside holidayseson

[@lapislazarus8899]

Eh, just send em down to work at the sweat shop for a week... Sort em right out. KIDDING!!!

[@marnenotmarnie259]

yeah, if i was a parent and my kid asked for luxury brand stuff, i would probably explain why (or give them resources to see for themselves) those brands are not. good. to support. idk about dior specifically but gucci doesn't have the nicest history, and there isn't really anything better about their stuff that justifies the price. i'd educate them on the stuff the parent wanted them to learn, but i wouldn't say they could have it just because they did research on all the human rights violations that'd get the product to them

[@henitinker8808]

​@@marnenotmarnie259 I don't think luxury brands are necessarily less ethical than cheaper brands. It depends on the brand and the product. Luxury brands can be wasteful, but they can also be ethical and artistic.

[@miglek9613]

@@henitinker8808 luxury brands are unethical by definition as a key point of a luxury brand is that the only reason why their stuff is overpriced is to exclude the poor from using/wearing the products rather than the price of production. If they produce things ethically and their things are expensive because of that they're artisans, not a luxury brand

[@jnewcomb]

The last one needs to start charting the "visitation" issues, record the calls with BW and take her to family court with their evidence. It's one thing to lie to family, it's another to lie to a judge under oath. That thing is called consequences.

[@jakeand9020]

Except, Grandparents don't have any rights being violated and brother is still with that witch. She's not saying he can't see his child, she's saying they can't and he's going along with it. She's willing to abuse her child and the system and there's nothing anyone can do about it. If they try she'll accuse him of something, like she did before, and best case scenario they won't see the child for years.

[@jnewcomb]

@@jakeand9020 While extended family have very few rights, they are not completely void of rights. BW is an abusive spouse (child neglect is a felony, filing false charges is a felony, etc.) and costing grandparents time and money every time she breaks their verbal visitation contract. Brother is aware of the abuse and does nothing. Family can file for custody if neither brother nor BW can get their sh!t together. That includes the squish who hasn't even been born. It is a harsh step but it sounds like it may be a necessary step. This is not a safe environment for any child.

[@Elwene2fr]

About the 2nd story. I completely agree about not buying every gift even if they can afford it. The kids should learn to compromise and learn the value of money" and telling them: "Ok. You can have one expensive gift. You'll have the iPhone14 but not the PS5 and TV" is one way to do it. Giving them assignments like that is so not gonna help them understand the cost of things at all.

[@SartorialDragon]

Also, when kids wish for something by a certain brand, they do it for reason. I used to collect model horses, and i'd asked for one or two specific ones. Instead, my mom got me a whole pack of cheap plastic horses from the dollar store. I was very disappointed because quantity wasn't what it was about. Very valid to tell your kid that there is a budget and that getting the one expensive thing means no other gifts. I also know parents who say "ok, but then this big thing is your present for both christmas and your birthday this year". I'd let them make up their mind whether the wish for the iPhone is so strong that they are willing to forego lots of smaller presents. (also, when did "lots of presents" become the norm? Sure i'll give my kids several things because i just love giving them things, but not a heap!) Making them think about that teaches them a bunch of useful messages, so i do think that's a good way to go. The decision of "do i really want the newest iPhone so much that i'll forego 5 other things i want, or can i make do with the iPhone from 5 years ago and have the option to get other things as well?" is going to be a permanent question in their adult life, unless their name is X AE A-XII, in which case, generational wealth is gonna shelter them from such middle class dilemma.

[@GogiRegion]

@@SartorialDragon My mom definitely has told me on my birthday or Christmas that if I want that one thing on my list then I probably am not getting much else.

[@moonlighthowling666]

My dad used to use glasses/contacts as leverage over me. For like a month I had no contacts and no glasses because he decided I hadn't "earned" them, and that I had broken my glasses on purpose to manipulate him. So yeah... needless to say that was traumatic, but it doesn't sound like that is necessarily going on here. I just wanted to put my two cents in that not allowing your kid to have contacts or glasses is abusive.

[@Owieyoutube]

Jesus Christ, I am so sorry. Imagine doing that with other handicaps?? That is f'ed up. I feel you, sweetheart 💕

[@pegmama8]

Damn I’m sorry you went through that- that sucks!

[@moonlighthowling666]

@@Owieyoutube that was what I thought about as I grew older too!

[@Romanticoutlaw]

that's like your kid having a broken leg and withholding crutches from them. It's insane

[@marinaelliott8668]

I get that glasses may be expensive, but that's not the correct consequences. Pay for the kid's glasses and punish them in another way (grounding, revoking phone time/friend time). Glasses are a medical necessity!

[@barrylangille3523]

I'm like Shaaba about the gift thing. In one way it's not a bad idea to ask the kids to research whether or not a company is ethical. They may learn a few things, and a lot of trendy, expensive items honestly aren't worth it. On the other hand you shouldn't have to work for gifts. That's not a gift. And there's way too much emphasis on the glasses. If the daughter wants fashion frames - that's the gift, not the glasses. Those Dior frames cost way more than my very expensive lenses that I got with free frames.

[@itssteph263]

The cost of the Dior glasses the daughter wants made me feel a little guilty because I bought myself $400 prescription glasses. That being said I think OP should have argued that he had already bought her glasses back in October, so the Dior frames wouldn't be an option for a gift. If she still insisted on the frames, have her earn them after the holidays so they aren't a Christmas gift anymore but, rather something she earned. I think OP and his wife probably should implement a budget limit for each kid when it comes to the Christmas gifts. Since it sets parameters for the kids and they aren't doing guess work for how much is too much for a gift.

[@barrylangille3523]

@@itssteph263 if you bought yourself frames you love don't feel guilty! Why shouldn't you? As for the post, that whole situation is hard to sort. I can see the point of some of it, but it could be handled better.

[@kidlitfanful]

I agree, but it would be better for the parents to come out and say "I don't want to support paying so much money to the owner of the company when the workers who actually make the frames don't get paid well. In a few cases, designer stuff is better made, but most of the time it's just paying 10+ times as much because they slapped a name on it! That's not a bad thing to teach children!

[@booklovr7]

This is how I feel about the glasses thing too. Like my dad always got me glasses when I needed them, but I had to pick frames that were fully covered by our insurance, because we didn’t have the money to pay additional out of pocket for that. Designer glasses are expensive and not worth it, imo, but I did ask for half the cost of my warby Parker glasses as a Christmas gift last year, mostly because glasses are expensive. The same with the basketball shoes, they need them for sports, and the parent is clearly willing to get them nice shoes that they want and get to pick, but not if they’re then going to turn around and ask for a second pair because they think the first pair is “too good” to actually use.

[@AnUmbreonNamedRaire]

For my birthday a few years back, I wanted a nintendo switch. My family's budget was limited. In an effort to convince them, I wrote a persuasive essay. It was fun, and I got the switch in the end (we actually ended up buying another for my mum last christmas so we could play animal crossing together - sometimes I think she likes it more than I do). However, that was voluntary of me to do. I can understand wanting the kids to do that tho, especially for such expensive gifts. I would get the kids to rank them in order of what they most want and tell them to write a short thing on why (including, cost, manufacturer, etc) they want the 1st one. Then buy them the first 2 or 3, with the extras as a surprise.

[@chloecarpenter6538]

That last story - I understand about not giving ultimatums, but what do you say in that situation? Do you lie?? Because if the parents wanted to know why you weren’t going to the family gathering, you’d have to lie, or you would be giving an ultimatum by admitting that you didn’t want to be in the same room as your brother’s wife - even if you didn’t explicitly say ‘her or me’

[@starparodier91]

I agree with you on your take with the Christmas presents. I’m an only child from a well-off family and it wasn’t until late high school and college that I learned how privileged I was. I eventually learned that the main reason I always got whatever I wanted had to do with my mom “not wanting to deal with my autism and anxiety”. I’m 31 now and I feel very uncomfortable getting gifts because I still have a little voice in the back of my head that’s wondering why I’m getting a gift and I feel extremely embarrassed for how spoiled I was. I know 15 y/o me would’ve hated it but it’s taken years of therapy to function as an independent adult because I was never told “no” and I wish I had been.

[@moonlighthowling666]

I feel like this was written by me lol I relate to everything you've described. I also think my mom's love language might be gift giving? But I think a big reason why should would give me whatever I want was because she didn't want to deal with me being upset if I was told no, which is just what kids do

[@starparodier91]

@@moonlighthowling666 *sees your username* I think we might be the same person from different timelines lol

[@theomegajuice8660]

I remember at age 7 working out that Santa didn't exist after finding out my best friend (who was really kind and well behaved but also from quite a poor fanily) got much less for Christmas from Santa than me (a hyperactive mouthy shithead who came from a decently well off family)

[@moonlighthowling666]

@@starparodier91 if only we could be irl friends without doxxing each other 😅 make youtube bring back private messages

[@starparodier91]

@@moonlighthowling666 lostlegendz 😊

[@bambino05]

I feel somewhat called out. A lot of presents for my daughter are just things she's going to need in the new year, purely because she seems more excited by the unwrapping of presents than the actual presents. (She's only 14 months old). My other daughter (she's 4) has toys and things she's specifically asked for. Having grown up in a household that gave things like coats for gifts and having to prove you need any kind of necessity, I'll never put that on my children. They never want for what they need to live, I decided to bring them into this world, I will fund their existence at least until they are able to do so independently.

[@henitinker8808]

If they're that young I don't think it matters. Like you said, what is most fun for them right now is the unwrapping. It's different with the other situation, because they are all teenagers.

[@pegmama8]

I think the main problem is not giving needed items as gifts, but withholding needed items at any other time of the year. For example, my parents usually give me socks for Hanukkah, not because they wouldn’t get me socks whenever if I asked, but because they need 8 different gifts so some of them are gonna be pretty small. It’s fun to have a gift every night of Hanukkah, but I knew from experience that if I needed socks, I could ask for them whenever. Having extra “not fun” presents for the fun of unwrapping is the same thing- no big deal if the family is secure enough that needs are granted at any time of year.

[@NotLaura-Baka22]

Oh no yeah it's different when they are under 2 and don't really understand gifts, they just like the wrapping paper. I use to buy clothes in the size up and books when my girls were that young 🥰 my son last year happily turned the pages of his book for ages while his sisters opened their presents 🎁❤

[@hannahk1306]

I've literally heard of parents of young children wrapping up things they already own as gifts! When they're that young they don't really have wants and don't really understand gift giving, so it actually makes sense at that age to just give them "something" to unwrap rather than spending loads of money on something they won't care about and don't really need.

[@theomegajuice8660]

I think we've all seen the video of the little girl who is absolutely thrilled to unwrap a banana. Kids love the experience and it just makes good sense to give then the fun activity without getting them a ton of stuff that will go to waste

[@sandalaris]

For the Christmas list one: I never expected to get everything from the list I gave my mom. It's a list of things I want, why would I expect everything on it? Not only is that extreme, it ruins the surprise. It's a small thing, but ruining the surprise was a big deal for me as a kid thats followed me into being an adult. One thing my mom did was ask me if I wanted one big/expensive gift or several smaller ones. I feel like that would a good solution in this situation. Ask the kids which they'd prefer; one big expensive gift or several smaller, cheaper ones.

[@Amozon28]

The best "value of money" lesson i ever got as a kid was actually by accident on my parents part. Our cat needed an expensive surgery to amputate a leg, and my parents couldnt afford it without making some sacrifices. So my parents sat us down and explainex the situation and told us one of the things we could sacrifice was cable tv for 6-8month. Now this is pre youtube, pre streaming/online entertainment so all we had as kids was cable tv. And we went thru it. It was a really sucky 6 months but our now 3 legged cat was worth it and we got to spend almost 10 more years with him. One of the best life lessons i ever got. But yeah xmas parent is a bit weird for how theyredoing it

[@TheMarjolein96]

I don't think getting a necessity as a gift is always a bad thing. I come from a well-off family, but my parents aren't big on flashy or extravagant things so I never got very expensive gifts (which I was totally fine with btw). The big exception to this is that as a kid every 2-3 years I would get a brand new bike (when I outgrew the last one). I used my bike to get to school, friends, activities, etc. so I needed a new one, but either my other brother's old bike or another secondhand one would have easily sufficed as decent bikes last much longer than it takes for a kid to outgrow them. However, my parents always got me a new bike, because it was something I really enjoyed. We would always make it into a fun outing to our local bike shop where I would get to test ride every bike and then choose my favorite. Looking back this was the perfect mix of getting me something I needed, but making it feel special too. Edit: spelling

[@SolarpunkVince]

Fellow Dutchie? Because this sounds familiar 😂

[@TheMarjolein96]

@@SolarpunkVince jup

[@Artechiza]

It so great that you also got to support your local bike business! Europe is so advanced in ethical consumption culture, I wish it'd be like that everywhere

[@bogwife7942]

agreed! this year my mom got me my very first pair of left handed scissors for my birthday. I spent years struggling to cut things with right handed scissors, hurting my wrists and hands and just generally getting really frustrated. so it was a really sweet gift, even if it was a practical one

[@wonderbugone]

As the child of a mom who had CPS called on her (because a neighbour who kept their poor dog chained up in their backyard 24/7 had animal services called on them by a _different_ neighbour but they thought it was my mom and wanted revenge), it made me so angry to hear someone threatening to call CPS for a parent asking their teenage kids to write papers for very expensive gifts. That person is a true asshole. Being unfoundedly accused/suspected of child abuse is so demeaning and it is SCARY for CPS to come knocking. The very idea that your kids could be taken from you. Not funny. Not a joke. Nope.

[@aimemaggie]

12:06 I"m guessing they're trying to teach the kids about inequality but this isn't really the best way of teaching them

[@DashValkyrie]

With the toxic SIL one, I didn't see it as her giving an ultimatum. simply setting a boundary. I'd probably express it differently, like "if she's going to be there, I'm sorry but I can't go". and I also think in rare situations, ultimatums are okay and even necessary, like when you've made your boundaries clear in a situation or relationship and someone is consistently disregarding them. I think at that stage it's ok to draw a line in the sand. But in this case I think NAH (aside from the brother's wife).

[@MoonGalleon22]

Love how the step-mum insists that being asked to correctly gender someone is "petty", but her step-child being trans is big and important enough to throw him out of the house over.

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

I feel like if they where asking for a pet or something they had to take care of a research paper would be good because they should know how to take care of it

[@henitinker8808]

Yeah, I agree. Because it's about showing you know how to care for the animal and are ready for that responsibility. I think this situation is different though.

[@kearstinnekenerson6676]

@@henitinker8808 oh yeah completely agree I was just giving the only thing I could think of that would be an appropriate ask I have to be clearer about what I am meaning items that don’t need care are just gifts don’t need explanation.

[@hanamachii_]

Honestly I can't agree with you on the last one. I think the parents can't truly make the choice without being informed of the consequences of their decision. If they want to keep the grand babies in their life, op needed to tell them what it would cost. And honestly, what would happen if they just didn't show up? They'd still be questioned and they could either lie and keep not attending stuff where the brothers wife is, or they could be upfront. I think honesty is best in this case 🤷‍♀️

[@tobyatlas6480]

Ive been in a very similar situation emotionally to the first poster, and am also very conflicted about it. My stepdad was very abusive to me (tw for that), sexually, emotionally, verbally, and my mom never stood up for me or took me seriously as i was driven out of our home at 16, ending up homeless for a short time. I can understand where my mom and the posters dad are coming from, but in the end, a parents job is to protect you, and so when they don't it can be extremely painful. I have actually personally decided to go no contact with my mom, something that im very conflicted about, and have considered posting about on AITA. But i think in the end if a parent isnt a healthy or safe person in your life, you dont owe them pretending. Im also 19 and FTM so there's that too lmao

[@elliest55]

Sorry to hear that you've been through so much - it all takes a lot of strength and courage. I also hope you have a support network, however small. You are absolutely not obliged to keep in touch with a parent who has been hurtful to you so definitely NTA for cutting contact with your mum, at least for the time being. The only thing I would consider in the future, especially if your mum has also been a victim of your stepdad's abuse, is writing her a letter explaining your perspective and your choice to stay away, while stating that if she ever wants to come back into your life it would only be on the condition of believing you, taking your side against your abuser, supporting and accepting who you are. So it's like closing a door for now, but not throwing away the key, if she wants back in she can achieve it, but in the meantime you continue your journey without her.

[@_IH_]

You're absolutely NOT TA, dear! A parent should ultimately protect their children from abuse, even if it means pushing the abusing people out of their lives. No parent should ever be allowed to sacrifice their children's well being to avoid a difficult situation. Do what's safest for you, you need to take care of youself, especially if your mother doesn't for whatever reasons. Her reasons are not your responsibility, your only responsibility is to keep yourself safe and heal all the trauma so you can become the best and happiest version of yourself ❤

[@MsFitz134]

Ugh that last one. Having a narcissistic family member who has behaved similarly (including pressing false charges on family members) I understand the predicament. Due to their manipulation and emotional abuse tactics we have cut this person out of our lives and opted to not go to any family events where this individual will be. We don't give them vs. us ultimatums, we just say "If they will be there then we won't be coming, but we'd love to get together with you some other time." Here's the thing with ultimatums: there's a good chance that they'll choose the other person and knowing that you drove them to rejecting you makes it hurt even more. Most of our family have been offended by our unwillingness to "get over it" and come to family events so they haven't spoken with us in years, but at least we know that was entirely their choice.

[@emdeo]

In that last one, I would be pretty direct. "I can be there, but I will confront her. Do you want me there, given that?" Big Shrug. To be fair this is probably why I am not in touch with most of my extended family, my parents were also like this.

[@whoahanant]

I feel bad for the first ones dad. They said they lived off his disability income mixed with the step mom. So I think he doesn't have the strength and support to truly fight back his wife and her family. If anything she sounds like she's managing to push both OP and their dad apart. OP should meet with their father and have a sit down and talk about the step mom/wife's behavior against OP. Maybe help him realize he might need to leave her if this is how she's going to be, help him move out of there ect. Also for the last one I'd be more tempted to call cps on that one. Imagine the trauma that child has to face being told "you're going to grandma's/grandpa's today" only for the mom to say "no you can't go" right when their grandparents show up to pick them up. Sorry but omg they need to rip that lady out of their life and get cps involved. That child is gonna have severe problems if everything they get promised disappears immediately when people show up.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

My first thought was "is this abuse?" If they live off his disability primarily then why would his wife have financial control over him? It sounds to me like wife is purposefully alienating him from his family to better secure her control of his income and ensure that he only has her to depend upon. This is classic abuser tactics and.. yikes.

[@cexilady3333]

Agreed ✅✅✅

[@cexilady3333]

@@InThisEssayIWill... I don’t know if *intentionally* isolating from family because we only have one red flag to go off of but the incident of “why can’t you come to our Christmas you made your dad sad you should feel bad” is a pretty big one. General shittiness and misgendering of their stepson isn’t direct signs of isolation, they could just be bigots. However, *definitely* living off the dad’s disability.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

@@cexilady3333 I should have been more clear, I definitely don't think we have enough information to know for sure. It was just a point of concern. Anytime I hear situations revolving around disabled income I'm primed to be defensive because I'm very familiar with the way people who are reliant on able bodied partners can be used. That's my own baggage I'm bringing I suppose 🙂

[@cexilady3333]

@@InThisEssayIWill... as a disabled person I’m also primed to be defensive, but I’m also wary of making claims of what kinds of abuse are occurring when we’re missing info or only have so little. But getting info of living off disability plus whatever stepmom makes? 100% using his disability.

[@micahroberts8383]

I'm confused about the difference between the trans guy saying he wouldn't attend if the transphobic family are present (an ultimatum) and the last person saying they won't attend if the toxic BW is present (also an ultimatum). I think ultimatums get a bad wrap, tbh. There's a way that they end up feeling like a threat that is unpleasant, but I think it's okay to say, "I'm not going to attend and it's because person X will be there." It seems like both of those people were saying that. Maybe it's their wording that feels different, or that the first person was directly impacted vs the second was just not wanting to be around drama, but that's not what Shaaba is saying; she's saying one is an ultimatum and one isn't, which has left me confused about the connotative meaning of "ultimatum" she has that I am clearly lacking (or if I just maybe missed something).

[@leggyegg2890]

I get confused about this a lot!!! Kind of like when people say you shouldn’t have rules in a relationship, you should have boundaries. Functionally they’re kind of the same, seems like arguing semantics for no reason. Anything can be turned into an ultimatum when you look at it that way. Every relationship has the baseline ‘ultimatum’ that if one party does something deemed bad enough by the other, the relationship ends/there will be some consequence. I’m autistic tho so that could have something to do w it

[@theomegajuice8660]

It's very much about framing. Setting clear boundaries is very emotionally healthy and assertive while being respectful. Threats and emotional blackmail are cruel, manipulative and nacceptable. Something like "I will not be coming to your event if X is there" could easily be interpreted as one or the other without knowing additional context. People project what they want to be true onto a situation to justify their instinct about it.

[@howaboutno.01]

I think it's important to note that the 'ultimatum' for the trans guy's situation did have the caveat of "If they decide they can be respectful, I will still agree to be there even if they are." making it less of an ultimatum than the title of that post makes it sound. He's being fair by giving multiple options and not just saying that he absolutely will not come if they are there no matter what. Whereas in the other ultimatum there is no caveat of "I'll be there along with BW if she agrees not to cause drama or be cruel to me/people I care about." It's more clearly "choose between BW (and by extension your grandchild, who you formed a bond with and now don't get much contact with) or me (whom you can see freely, but would still love to be with for the holidays)." Can you see how one is more openminded, putting onus on the offending people to change their behavior and then be given a chance, while the other almost sounds like punishing the innocent party for wanting to have multiple loved ones there at the cost of a toxic person's presence?

[@phantomflair5546]

@@leggyegg2890 Here’s my understanding: boundaries are about you, rules are about the other person. For boundaries, it might be, “I don’t want to be touched without my permission.” While a rule might be, “You need to ask me before you go to the bathroom.” See how the second one is more focused on the other person?

[@serenityf.6234]

I think Shaaba explained it well with 'make decisions about yourself but don't force others to make the decision': In the 1. story the trans guy said he won't be there if they don't respect his identity + even offered to meet up with the dad on a different day. So setting a boundary for respecting him and actively removing himself from a negativ situation, but still offering an option for the dad. In the 3. story the 'ultimatum' is making the grandparents have to choose + pressuring them into deciding who they'll practically have to un-invite; either not allowing the brother's wife to come or losing the chance of seeing their daughter. OP could've said I'm not coming on Christmas (making her own active decision) but let's meet up on the next day. It's rlly mostly don't pressure others into deciding for you (or try to force them into the outcome of a decision you personally want) and therefore making it seem like a 'do they value me enough to choose me/what I want over the other option'-ploy, if you don't want to be there then actively decide not be there (+ maybe offer an alternative that works for you if you don't want to burn all bridges) I hope that's understandable?! I have difficulties trying to explain it better ^^

[@phantomflair5546]

The thing about your position on ultimatums for the third story is that technically, the guy in the first story also gave his dad an ultimatum. He’s obviously not in the wrong, but the lady in the 3rd story isn’t either. You’re allowed to say, “Hey, I’m uncomfortable going if this person is there too, sorry.”

[@GloomyFish]

Some possible alternatives I think could work for the second story: 1. only allow the kids to ask for one expensive gift each, ie the one they want the most, and anything else on their list has to be more affordable 2. similarly, if they're determined to get an expensive gift, say that of they ask for a gift above a certain amount of money, they can't ask for anything else but that (I have had to do this at times and I was fine with it) 3. have them write a Christmas list, but circle up to 5 things that they want above all others (I've also had to do this before and again, it was fine) 4. Instead of have them do research papers, have them keep on top of their chores or something? assuming they don't normally do their chores when they're supposed to (I'm not really wording it well) I get teaching them the value of money, I really do, but the research papers are a bit over the top... if I was to rate the parents the way Rslash does, I'd give them 1.5/5 butthole points. They shouldn't have to work to prove that they deserve gifts, they just need a bit of discipline and/or to learn how to compromise.

[@evanrigel954]

When I was younger my parents did the second thing you suggested, and tbh it always seemed fair. My brother & I knew there was a budget on presents, so if we wanted something more expensive, we knew that we'd essentially be trading lots of presents for 1 high quality one. I think if you're upfront with things, it's perfectly fair

[@pyritethefool4637]

I do think with that last one, the family does need to find a way to better deal with the situation then to just let it continue. But the ultimatum just makes you just as much of a problem.

[@ViveMeorLeti]

While it's not clearly communicated, I think the Christmas report thing might be about trying to promote ethical shopping and wanting the kids to be aware of who they are supporting when they buy from various brands. I have a friend who refuses to have anything to do with Nestlé on moral grounds due to their profoundly unethical business practices. She won't even accept Nestlé products as a gift, as a matter of principle. It's much the same as people boycotting Harry Potter things because they care about trans rights. So the "Who owns Chanel?" would be less about not being a "real fan", and more about knowing whose business practices you're supporting by giving them your money. While I fully agree that gifts should be about joy, our society vastly over-consumes, and we should all try to pay more attention to whether we actually need or want the things we buy (which is unfortunately made more difficult by our brains rewarding us with happy chemicals for getting new things). If I buy something and use it twice, then eventually throw it away, unfortunately my joy doesn't balance out the environmental and possibly humanitarian cost of the item. If the report writing manages to make the kids more attetive to these things, then that's great. I'm not at all convinced it's actually going to work, but I also don't know the family or the kids.

[@henitinker8808]

If they wanted to promote ethical shopping they should just buy less gifts for them. I think the mum's objection to Chanel seems to be based more on her daughter's preference for something popular anyway. It's like the mum is trying to diminish why her daughter likes the thing by saying it's trivial. I

[@kaworunagisa4009]

I agree with you, and I also got a strong sense of the mom trying to teach her kids about ethical shopping, but this is not the way to do it. First, if a gift has to be earned, it's not a gift. Second, if you want to teach children to be ethical, tell them clearly what you want them to know. Or show them. Or provide them with materials that support your lesson. Don't expect teens with not fully developed brains to make complex moral and political conclusions by themselves when not even all fully grown adults can grasp it.

[@melissashiels7838]

Exactly! I feel like Shaaba missed the dynamic of this family. They are clearly very concerned about environmental issues and workers rights. They don't just want to lecture the kids, they want them to do the work to see if these companies/brands align with their ethos and draw their own conclusions. I can't say I think it will work, but I applaud them for actively instilling environmental consciousness into their kids instead of just mouthing empty platitudes and still buying overpriced crap that will be "out of fashion" in a year.

[@arsonist127]

this exactlyyy!! and wether the parents were being a55holy depends on how they said things. if they said things angrily and were being judgy and unclear about what they want their kids to do and why, then that was a55holy. can't be side-eyeing kids and expecting them to just know why they should do things. it's so important to teach kids to be aware of the world and to research stuff, so they don't make horreondously unethical choises.

[@lauraslyricallife]

I can't stand people that use innocent kids against other family. I wish that family had the guts to stand up to that person but being held hostage bc you love a small human and want them in your life is a hard place to be.

[@curiousfirely]

My friend's parents had a really great system that always made sense to me: they had a specific budget/number of small/med/large gifts. If my friend wanted to get something bigger, they had to 'combine' the budget for the smaller gifts. This teaches limits and budgeting, while also giving choice.

[@katlord586]

Re: expensive gifts for kids. The papers are extreme. Asking the kids why they want these things specifically isn’t a bad idea, because it could be rooted in issues at school. Are other kids making fun of them for what they wear? Or is it because they actually enjoy fashion/the fashion house/etc. If they’re being made fun of, then support them through their struggles and it can give you insight into what their daily life is like. If it’s because they are growing a hobby/style and those particular frames or clothes express their style, then share in their hobby or style and look for similar things in a lower cost bracket. Those are better ways to approach them instead of judging children for being children.

[@EmoNightDragon]

Oof, we don't know all the sides of this story here, but in the last one I feel so bad for the lil daughter and their new sibling :S

[@trinitybernhardt9944]

1st - i love the idea of calling the step mom the mom's name 2nd - absolutely YTA. I get some of their point, but I don't think it actually has any benefit to the kids, or their relationship. The idea of tagging conditions on presents is f-ed up. I think the idea of Santa only giving good kids gifts is borderline enough. I agree with Shaaba's list plan. My family didn't have a ton of $, so I ranged my list from $5 up and included one or two wishes that I never expected, but was thrilled if I got. I still do it on the rare times I asked for a list. I am all for teaching kids appreciation, but if you have the money why not take them out to shop for a gifting tree? They will see the cost, and recognize some don't get anything. OP's way is disgusting. I also have extreme anxiety and question what I deserve all the time. This is building them up to never feel worthy of gifts, because gifts aren't gifts. They are rewards for giving into ridiculous demands. I think CPS is too much, but if they treat their kids like this at Christmas, what else do they do? Wouldn't be surprised if actions like this led to LC in adulthood. This is the stuff that you carry for a lifetime. 3rd: it can be hard for some to understand the difference between ultimatums and boundaries. The first story felt more like a boundary, because they included getting together outside of family event. Some people just don't know how to word it. NTA for laying out a boundary, but they do need to learn how to express it better.

[@enbypotato]

For the second story like you and other people said, just because they wrote a list doesn't mean you have to get the everything on said list, especially if most of the items are expensive. For example; my mum asked me what I want for Christmas so I said I would write a list and yea most of the items were hoodies but because they have Star Wars or are merch of youtubers I like, they're expensive. I already know one of my brother's got me a kpop album (which is cheaper than other kpop albums I've gotten in the past) so I'm not expecting the get anything expensive from my parents. I even wrote on the list, "Any of these or just money". Though my mum said, " If we get something expensive it will most likely be your only present." Which is fine by me. The only reason I mentioned any of that is because the mum could just tell their kids that they can get one expensive present as well as smaller presents. That way the kids get something they really want and the parents don't have to spend thousands on presents. Does that make sense or am I just rambling nonsense?

[@bitchenboutique6953]

I can’t even remember asking for anything expensive ever. Like it’s just not in my nature to be GIVE ME THINGS and it never was. And I know most people don’t see a wish list as “give me things” but that’s how it feels to me and it makes me so uncomfortable when people make me tell them things I want. NOTHING, I WANT NOTHING. Because even if I wanted something, I wouldn’t want you to get it for me because I would feel awful. And yes I’ll be discussing that with my therapist. 😂

[@enbypotato]

@@bitchenboutique6953 I also feel so bad when people give me things even if I asked for it. Which is ironic because I love recieving gifts and giving gifts. I mean I could give someone a gift and they give me something back and I'm internally like, "No please don't. I love what your giving me and that you were thinking of me but I hate this." It's weird

[@nonexistingvoid]

As someone whose family walks on eggshells each Christmas and Easter because one of my aunts decided to pick a fight, I hope the OP in the last story will stay home, and continue refuse to see the BW and niece until the niece is no longer used as a tool by BW. The ENTIRE FAMILY suffers because one person being unable to deal with their problems, and the child being used as leverage is no exception. This is a form of alienation and abuse, and OP is right in telling their parents that if they keep letting this continue, they won't be there for Christmas. An ultimatum was the only option for OP, as shitty as it may seem. The BW is actively harming her own daughter to hurt OP's family, and OP has every right to tell their parents that this has gone on for far too long. Does that make them an AH? Dunno. But if it does, it's because they needed to be the AH for people to see how bad the situation really is.

[@happytofu5]

Jeez, the second poster just can not buy their kids the problematic gifts and explain why without being passive agressive about it.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

Honestly I think the reports were more so to have the teens reflect on their privilege and not act super entitled to demand crazy expensive designer/ brand named items and get all Karen when told that they won't get everything on the list, like that whole "target exists " comment after being told they won't be getting everything definitely justifies just having to do some writing

[@happytofu5]

@@GraveyardMaiden I still think its passive agressive to *hope* that the kids will learn something from writing the reports. What if they don't learn the "right" lesson? Will the parent still buy the expensive gifts? I am not against pointing out the privilege, its the method that I dont like.

[@henitinker8808]

@@GraveyardMaiden It's the parents fault that they have set that expectation, not the kids. The parents need to create boundaries, not set assignments

[@GraveyardMaiden]

@@henitinker8808 Yeh it kinda is OPs fault that they got that way, but at least they're starting to do something now about it.

[@GraveyardMaiden]

@@happytofu5 Not really cause it 1) makes them reflect on how much they want the thing and 2) makes them reflect on how privileged they are. A passive aggressive response would be getting them something similar then being really guilt trippy about it

[@SaraSG1]

For the last story, I have always said that if I'm ever given an ultimatum like that, I will chose whoever DIDN'T give the ultimatum. I agree with you completely. Just don't give ultimatums.

[@Lenupet]

About the last story: I think it's fair of the OP to not wanting to attend that Christmas dinner. (And not wanting to see BW.) HOWEVER she could have said so without giving her family an ultimatum. And she could have said "I'm not attending on day X but we can all meet again on day Y to celebrate Christmas." (Of course without BW.) That way the grandparents can see their grandchild and celebrate Christmas with OP as well without anyone feeling bad.

[@KaylaChan90]

The gift one is hard, I like the point they're trying to make somewhat with researching the big name companies (I tend to avoid buying from all those as well.) but I feel it would be so much better to sit down and talk about the stuff like fair worker pay, and things they support etc, rather than turn into to homework for the kids.

[@gothicfairy96]

I am going to send this to my dad. Ask him to watch and pay attention to the first thing. Trying to get him to under mis gendering me is not ok he is willing stand up to anyone but won't correct his wife about misgendering. Sometimes she gets it right but most of the time it seems like unless he is around she barely tries.

[@sinimeg]

In the last one, I don’t think that it was an ultimatum, but a warning. Is fair to let others know that she’s not going to be there if the brother’s wife is also there, so they don’t count with her for the meals and everything

[@cexilady3333]

It’s still an ultimatum because she’s making her parents choose the headcount.

[@SaruCharmed]

If she doesn't want to be around that kind of person, I think that's her right. It's unfortunate how it will affect her grandparents, but she can't help that. And she can see her grandparents at a separate time. She's only saying she won't be there at holidays if the BW is also there. It sucks but some people treat kids like property. Only the BW is to blame but there isn't an easy solution. She probably could've worded it a different way. But I also don't think she should be emotionally blackmailed into having to be around people she is uncomfortable around on a day that is supposed to be happy.

[@cexilady3333]

@@SaruCharmed I agree it’s everyone’s right to not be around manipulative people. I just think that maybe she could’ve found different plans instead of forcing the choice, and said “I know you want the chance of seeing your granddaughter, and I can’t be around BW. So I made other plans to make sure everyone is happy, and I can see you the day after.”

[@Grymmorot]

I agree sometimes you just get in a position where it’s not possible to continue as nothing has happened. And from my point of view you have to give the reason why you don’t attend like in this case I will not be attending if BW does. I would feel differently if they had said “choose how you want in your life”. (Sorry if my English is bad)

[@marnenotmarnie259]

yeah… i also don't fully understand why the first ultimatum is okay but this one isn't (nobody called it an ultimatum but both people were saying "if this person is there, i won't be"). in both situations the OPs don't want to be around an abusive person, it's just that the first one was being abusive directly to OP, and in the last one the person was being abusive to OP's whole family. i wouldn't want to be around that either.

[@celatae]

Feel like the essays for Christmas folks wanted to teach a lesson in ethical consumerism, but that lesson wasn't functional considering the attitude the kids already had in expecting their full lists (if that is actually what they expected to happen). It just makes me think of the Nestle argument about chocolate not being available at current prices without slavery, and the retort of 'fine, no chocolate then' because the cost is not acceptable. (~70% of world's cocoa using human trafficking and child labor (including slavery)). Good lesson, horrible execution, and definitely something kids should learn through example.

[@mammoneymelon]

the thing though is that (iirc) OP said the kids would get the gifts if they proved they should have it. it doesn't matter if they learn about terrible business practices if they get the gift anyway, it would just teach them that stuff like worker exploitation and unethically sourced materials aren't that big of a deal

[@wegotthechoccies]

As a trans person, I'm so uncomfortable when someone in my family deadnames or misgenders me, for the most part, my family is GREAT and it's only a few slip ups. The trans guy in the story is an adult and it's up to him. It's not SMALL or PETTY, it's his identity. If he's not comfortable being in an unloving and unsafe environment, he shouldn't have to go! Good for OP for standing up for himself and saying what he wanted. I'd do the exact same thing if I was in that situation

[@maxon1712]

For the last one I think that the reply ment that op was going to take themselves away from the situation to avoid stress on the family just as you said but I might be mistaken

[@Zapporah85]

On the last one, I guess I'm a bit confused on how you would do that without an ultimatum. Because even if you just say you're not going to go, they're going to ask you why and your reason is still going to be that she is going to be there. So even if you don't phrase it as an ultimatum, it's still going to sound like one. I'm kind of in a similar situation with my dad and he knows that I'm not going to go anywhere that my grandparents are. It's not that I've given him an ultimatum but if I find out that they're going to be there, suddenly I won't be attending.

[@Jigglypowerpuffgirl]

Growing up we didn’t have a lot of money for Christmas gifts. Sometimes gifts were ‘essentials’ like shampoo, shaving cream, socks ect. I was very aware that my classmates and cousins were getting expensive gifts for Christmas and often felt embarrassed when asked what I got for Christmas. It’s extremely privileged to make a Christmas list and get any of those gifts at all. I would never have asked for anything specific for Christmas because I knew it just wasn’t going to happen. That being said I never had a bad Christmas. I appreciate gifts of any monetary value. To this day receiving/giving gifts is one of my love languages. Someone can buy me socks and I’ll be like “you got me socks!” 😍🥰 I wonder where the kids learned that they could be so entitled? Are they used to getting multiple expensive gifts? Maybe they should get one expensive gift and do some volunteer work over break instead of writing papers. I think that would better accomplish what they parents are trying to do.

[@lapislazarus8899]

There is this, I can't remember the actual term used, but it's almost like using the underprivileged or however (I'm having a hard time with words at the moment) that's more about you than actually helping. Like, why volunteer ONLY at the holidays? There's other examples; almost like exploiting the marginalized all over for your benefit, not theirs. I read about this phenomenon in an article back in like 2015, I'm not sure if it was in VICE or the Atlantic... It was good, and I'm frustrated that my brain is not getting the major points of the story across.

[@henitinker8808]

I think that the parents are basically blaming the kids for their bad parenting. Kids don't become spoiled unless you spoil them. The parents set up unrealistic expectations then tried to backpedal. I don't think volunteer work is necessary, the parents just need to learn to say "No, you don't get ALL the things on the wishlist."

[@noaccount2494]

@@lapislazarus8899 I could be wrong but I think one of the terms to describe this behavior is Volunteer Tourism or Voluntourism. It's the idea of going someplace to make yourself feel good about not being in such a bad position while "heroically" giving your time to "help the unfortunate" when generally speaking just giving them money without ever going would be a far greater help. A lot of white savoir complexes are linked with it too

[@hannahk1306]

Me and my brother used to get one big gift each and then a few smaller ones, rather than everything we asked for. They possibly could have have afforded more, but knew that it didn't make sense to. We also only got a couple of small things from Santa, everything else was just sent to him to look after but actually from our parents. I think it was to make us appreciate things more and also to not upset kids whose parents couldn't afford expensive gifts "from Santa" - I've heard stories of kids thinking they've done something wrong because Santa "only" got them a pair of socks, whereas their friend got a games console or something (the whole naughty or nice thing).

[@Jigglypowerpuffgirl]

@@lapislazarus8899 I understand what you’re saying and that’s a good point! I don’t think writing papers for Christmas presents is the solution, but idk what the solution is in this case.

[@hihello8724]

I’m really confused why they just didn’t tell their kids that they have a Christmas present budget so they can pick and choose if they want one/a few expensive things or more less expensive things?? Even when I was really young my parents would tell us that Santa had a budget. It’s also weird that a lot of what the kids wanted are needs rather then wants, yeah the things are expensive but tell them that it’s expensive and pick out a cheaper ones that’s similar. It’s seems like they’ve spoiled their kids but haven’t had to confront/ been confronted with that fact until now

[@ZombieMinion1992]

I am sticking with NTA in the last story. OP would be pressuring her parents either way. If she chosen not to go to avoid toxic behavior it would still be obvious. Just being up front about why she isn't going isn't the problem. It is the fact that op's family isn't working together to deal with a problem. OP doesn't have to go to christmas with the family but they shouldn't have to hide why. It sucks when you word it like an ultimatum but it is what it is. OP wont go to family functions with the SIL there because she is toxic. Her parents are the ones who will have to choose either way.

[@RowanArk]

For the last one, I hope the niece is okay, having a mother like that can't be good for her

[@evelyneverdeen7971]

Interestingly enough, I've actually had that present conversation with two of my friends recently. While I come from a rather well-off family, their family used to be tight on money when they were younger. Because of that, Christmas presents would often be something useful and to this day, that's an idea that they keep (which I honestly think is a good approach). For me, I would also write lists, but when I got into a rather niche hobby (for which you had to order from specific websites) around the age of 14, my parents would start giving me a budget and I could pick out things from my hobby within the budget. Which I also think is a good approach because it taught me to somewhat keep an eye on the money while also giving me free choices of what I wanted to get. But because of that, kids/teens asking for gifts that would be worth thousands of dollars/pounds/euros just seems very far-fetched for me. Especially at that age. I personally think that the parents should sit down and properly talk with their kids about budgets if they want to get everything, or, as you also mentioned, simply not get everything from the list. (And of course absolute necessities, meaning those that impact health, shouldn't be put off as 'Christmas/birthday presents' but should be provided naturally.)

[@minikipp8549]

7:15 YTA if you can't afford it be upfront or say well you can have 2 expensive gifts or 4 less expensive (or something like that). It helps them understand the worth of the items and will allow them to weigh up the options without you literally making them do work for christmas! Stuff they need like glasses shouldn't be for Christmas only slightly more extravagant stuff they half need half want. Although if it was say like march and they asked for these not on a special occasion i kinda would get behind it. The weighing up why you need it maybe add in some presentation making skill but keep it kinda fun like with no deadline. That way you can teach what you wanna teach but not make a stinker on a time specifically about giving. But I kinda think the things made to research are weird, if it were me I'd say give me some pros of you having it and then read up on something you find cool and get back to me about it. Kinda helps broaden horizons and helps them discover a passion!

[@roymustangsgirl007]

“ I’ll only come if you use my right name” “ he’s so sad you won’t come anymore” straight up made bed and laid on it

[@RiverWoods111]

I bought a pair of frames for glasses 4 years or so ago, and I never asked how much they were. I know they were one of the most expensive frames in the store. Now I am about to take them back in and get new lenses put in them and I will keep doing that till they are no longer functioning. I don't even know who made them, but they are purple and glittery. I am sorry, having to earn your Christmas gifts is ridiculous! YTAH! When my kids were growing up, I always bought them one expensive gift and a couple mid-range gifts that were all quality items. They had a stocking with trinkets in it and 3 nice gifts. My sister-in-law would spend the same amount, but it would take her kids 3 or 4 hours to open the pile of junk cheap ass toys. Most of which were broken by the end of the day. There were so many gifts my nieces were bored with open gifts halfway through. We spent the same amount of money. My kid's gifts were still going the next Christmas.

[@SartorialDragon]

"3:00 definitely NTA. You cant' force people to change, but you CAN take care of your own boundaries. Luckily, christmas has several days (or is that a German thing?? we have three consecutive days to celebrate and it's common to do one with your closest people, one with one side of the family, one with the other, or however the alliances lie xD) Have a nice dinner with your dad and show him you appreciate him (because he has moved onto better respectful behaviour and has earned being in your life

[@zaraandrews600]

£700 for a pair of glasses just because they are popular is very expensive. I can barely afford £25 for a new pair.

[@fiveottersinatrenchcoat482]

Thank you Shabba- I’ve been having a kinda rubbish time recently with life and seeing the little notif that you have a new video has really made my day. I hope you’re having a wonderful time and merry Christmas :)

[@VeryGoodDad]

Hope you feel better soon ❤️

[@TheSuzberry]

What would you think about telling Dad you will give steps a chance but if they dead name you, you will make an excuse and LEAVE. Would he be ok with that?

[@LadyQuotes]

I actually like the idea of having the kids research companies they want to own things from. The questions asked will make the kids more aware in their future buying. And a lot of people just turn a blind eye to sweatshops and other shady business principles. Personally I wouldn't do it for Christmas gifts, I would just make them shorten the list and only buy one expensive thing and then have them write a paper for the rest if they are things you would consider buying them, but not associate it with Christmas.

[@sdfghjasdfghjk8175]

I don't think I've ever really disagreed with you Shaaba, but I might on the last story. I do hear you on not giving people ultimatums, but I don't know that that's what OP was doing. It sounds like he is for sure not going to Christmas, and he is telling them the reason so they don't misunderstand or find a way to rationalize that it's not about them letting this woman terrorize their family. Sometimes people need a wake up call to start standing up for themselves and their niece. They could file for custody or use all of their witness testimony to get the courts involved, if she is going so far as to use police to manipulate the husband. It reminds me of my parents when I came out as trans, who were very unsupportive and actively harmful and transphobic for years. I went 1400 miles away and no contact for two years and told them they either respect me or stay out of my life when they asked for another chance. Totally not the same thing I know, but I gave them an ultimatum and I don't regret that. It sucks but consequences for them are the only reason they changed. I feel this is more OP making it clear that he won't do this with her anymore. While that does seem unfair to say to the parents and not his brother, they're the ones hosting and presumably slightly more rational than the one married to Toxifuq. I agree with you on not going to the holiday but this is about a bigger issue and it seems like one of limited opportunities to have this conversation with the people involved. I am open to other ways to say it but besides pursuing legal action against her himself, how should he proceeed here?

[@The-nonbinary-bean]

Hi Shaaba! This series really helps people. You are so good at breaking these down. I appreciate the good work you put into the ✨ashole✨

[@lapislazarus8899]

I wish I could have a therapist like Shaaba.💕

[@The-nonbinary-bean]

Same here @@lapislazarus8899

[@that1nerd44]

For story #2, in my family we do Something you want, something you need, something to wear, something to read, and a "Santa" or big gift. That can be a great way to cut clutter and keep Christmas under control. The kids could each get one big gift, and other smaller or medium sized gifts.

[@rage_of_aquarius]

The parents in the 2nd one are teaching conscious consumerism and are preparing to raise thoughtful kids. If more people did this, the 1st world would be a MUCH better place. Conscious consumerism is so hard to find in this post-capitalist society. These kids are going to have to face the consequences of their purchases. My mother tried to find fair-trade and ethical alternatives to my childhood requests for gifts. Understanding the societal implications of your actions is vital to being a global citizen. These kids will understand that the overpriced items they want so that they can be popular for shallow reasons come at the cost of funding the enslavement of children in 3rd world countries and the rape of the earth. Things that need to be learned young, or they won't be ingrained enough in people.

[@be_me]

I never got all the things, that I put on my Christmas list. Yeah sure, put a few expensive things on there too but don't expect them, as you said. Part of the excitement of Christmas for me was not knowing what I was going to get. Hell, when I was younger, one of my wishes always was a horse. I never got one and never expected to get one but I still wished for it because it was my dream.

[@melissacarlock6164]

I absolutely love these stories, you're one of my favorite heartwarming channels that I love hearing your perspective thank you so much for your accepting energy and everything else

[@thinkingbout]

Regarding the second story: I agree with a lot what you already said, like gifts shouldn't need to be earned, kids don't need everything of their wishlist etc. But I think it isn't only about the money but teaching the kids about what consequences their consumption has on other people and the environment. So making a report about it to learn by yourself and then decide if you still want it, can be a good thing. Also reflecting about why you want something is good to limit the risk of buying things you just want because they are popular. I agree that you can also have things just because you want them, but if you made all your purchases like that you'd creating a lot of waste, because most of the time you don't actually need all of your wants. So if it is the parents intention to teach their kids more about that - which seems like it regarding her comment on the dior glasses - it is totally okay. Nevertheless I agree that you shouldn't need to discuss why you want it with logical reasons to get it. Looking everything up, knowing about what consequences your wishes have and still wanting them in case of a christmas present should be fine, if the parents are gifting them these is still up to them then.

[@koalaskrypin]

With the BW and niece situation, NTA. I have a similar family situation but I am related to the trouble making parents and I decided that "You can all let them get away with whatvere but I am putting my foot down". I removed myself. I also have another situation with a family member that I cut out because of safety issues and I have not told people why I cut ties, because I don't want to complicate their relationships with the person (and end up being the bad guy). I simply told them that I have cut ties and while I would love to come to family gatherings, please tell me if they are coming as well so I can make a decision for myself on weather or not I want to attend. I don't want anyone to feel bad about it or be out in the middle and said that I can pop by any other time if I chose to not attend a function. All of my family was ok with this and relieved I took a stand so it will hopefully never be awkward.

[@kat3rpillar]

for the present one, maybe just sit them down, try to explain to them the concept of money and how what they asked for is to much. Then let them choose one or two things each? You don’t need to make them write up essays?

[@UvThe1st]

I think the gift research paper is actually a really good idea, not as a child but as an adult. Doing research into a specific brand may uncover some dodgy practices that you realise you don't want to support & may actually get you to change your mind. If I had to really think about what I wanted and research the factories, cost, working conditions, etc. I'd probably choose a more sustainable option - of course, that then leads to the fact that the more sustainable are generally more expensive but their decision may directly affect their future.

[@Sauvium1]

In terms of gifts, I came from a family where money was not plentiful. My parents did their best to get us a “big” gift along with smaller things but some years it was just a big thing if that cost the budget they had. One year, my brother wanted a DSLR and had been saving but my parents couldn’t afford to just buy him a $2000 camera as a gift so they decided to give him money towards it. My mum wrapped up five boxes with $100 in each and glued large rocks into them so they’d be misleadingly heavy. It was funny and appreciated. She’s apologized many times for not being able to spoil us the way my cousins were growing up and I tell her all the time that I’m a better person for it. While I didn’t always understand or appreciate where they were coming from as a child, it meant that I learned to appreciate that there is more to gift giving than just lots of big ticket items. I’m a better person for it. As an adult, she has bought me glasses as a gift but I was thankful because I needed them and my insurance didn’t cover them the whole way and it was a big expense. That’s the difference between 15 and 30 though.

[@hopeh0pe]

about the gifts: I really like this little phrase that i heard another youtuber use in their christmas video about how they give gifts to their kids. it goes "something you want, something you need, something to wear, and something to read" its a good mix imo of necessary items and luxuries. if one of the kids needs new shoes, they can choose a pair they really like for christmas but i reckon they replace things throughout the year when needed. Christmas is just a time for a bit of extra pizzaz i think

[@Peachessssss13]

on the second one the parents were not the asshole until they said that they will only be getting the things the kids need. I also feel that the essay was a bit much you could have instead educated them yourself on the corporations. My point being that there are better non malicious ways to teach your kids about the value of money. My parents are going to give me and my sibling a budget to buy our own hygiene products and have the leftover money for ourselves. I just feel like an essay on all the companies is a really weird way to educate your kids about budgeting and corporate abuse.

[@Axqu7227]

“It doesn’t make him a bad person to choose his partner’s happiness over his child’s safety, comfort, and feeling welcome and loved as himself in a family, it just means the father’s in a really hard position.” 3:35 … this is the same ridiculous, awful, short-sighted, mean-spirited take that people like to use to justify active contempt toward their kids. If “I’m forcing my kid to choose between a loving family and being himself because standing up to my spouse is haaaaard and scawy” doesn’t make someone a bad person, what the hell does? “He clearly cares for you.” Does he? Does he though? Not enough to give his kid a family. Shaaba, YTA for this take.

[@Darinadon]

Re: kids & gift giving. This is a tough one, because it feels like something has already been lost along the way in parenting - notice how most gifts kids have asked for are not only expensive, but 'status' gifts. And judging by the parents' approach it feels like this comes from them. So I'd say talk to kids and explain why gifts this expensive cannot be given at this age, but... it also feels like it won't help, they already value 'status' more than anything.

[@Naumaxia]

Honestly I was completely with the OP on the christmas present one until they started talking about presents only being something the kids need. like glasses. My vision is honestly shit, and when I was growing up it was getting worse fast enough that I did need a new pair of glasses at least every year from when i was about 4. but my siblings both had 20/20 vision when they were younger (although my sister does now wear reading glasses) My glasses were also a thing that contributed to my lack of self-confidence and took me quite a while to get used to them. If I had been getting glasses for christmas whilst my siblings got toys I would have been devastated. It's ok to get useful things for christmas but the idea that you a) have to wait till christmas to get needed items like glasses or b) you get people things they need but don't want is weird to me, particularly since the parents said they can afford to get stuff. Like obviously it's good to teach you kids not to be spoiled but damn dont make them have to earn non-necessary presents. Maybe set yourself a christmas budget and ask them to prioritise which things they want more with the understanding that they won't get everything?

[@Mockingjay975]

Love your channel! Merry Xmas!!

[@poolboyatvampiremansion]

When u said "alright peaches" at the end of the video it really sounded like "alright bitches" and I was like dang Shaaba!

[@EternalYorkieMom]

I always justified why I wanted nearly everything on my list, especially the expensive things. It helps the other people know what is important and what you could live without. But not how it will necessarily improve my life. Like I want cross earrings I haven’t shut up about but the family that doesn’t live with me wouldn’t know that!

[@Zapporah85]

I'm torn a bit on the expensive gifts. I do think it's important for the kids to understand where their phone comes from, the impact it has on the environment and other people, and to appreciate it so it's less likely to be damaged. Same with expensive shoes that are still made in a sweatshop. But like... The glasses? No, those are a need, not a gift. Maybe if they said they wanted nice sunglasses or something but not prescription ones.

[@Zapporah85]

Now if my kids said they wanted $300 shoes that are made by a small family business in Mongolia or something, that I would be totally down for. $300 Nikes... Eh.

[@Zapporah85]

Also, all my kids are gonna be adopted above the age of 5, so they will already have some sense of how privileged they are, and I don't necessarily want them to think I'm just saying "Oh you're so lucky to be here with me that you can afford that kind of stuff now" But still definitely want them to be aware that other kids can't have that stuff. It's tough, but I think asking for a group project on expensive phones and shoes and even make-up is reasonable. But get them actual presents too.

[@Zapporah85]

As far as Dior goes, I think she was trying to say that the company that owns Dior is horrible and that's something to be aware of. And while I do think that's important, there is a bit of "not ethical consumption under capitalism" that needs to be taken into account. As much as I want to be socially and environmentally ethical for everything that I purchase, it's just not possible. I can try my best and it's good to be aware of those things, but you're never going to find something that is 100% perfect.

[@stephanievassilev6772]

The x-mas present one is f-ing me up because no one seems to have pointed out the thing that jumped out at me which is that knowing if your clothes/makeup/ other expensive items are ethically sourced is really important. Like I assumed that thats why the mom asked how much the companies pay their employes and such but not even she seems to bring up the topic of ethical sourcing which makes me confused. If her goal is to teach her kids ethical consuption under capitalism i think thats super valid (despite her going about it in the wrong way). Am I reading too far into this?

[@Mockingjay975]

Whoever is reading this, I hope you have an amazing day and you deserve happiness.

[@SlothDaan]

I hope you read this yourself too ❤

[@MsSimL]

My mom told me once is that if we really want to hurt her is as siblings not talking with eachother. Having her to choose between us. Not being together with all of us

[@Ghostaroni]

i swear i become a better person after watching these vids even if it’s just tinnnnny things like phrasing. these are great

[@samh9528]

I agree, I have never expected to get everything that I asked for for Christmas, birthday, etc. Frankly, feel like getting everything you asked for sort of ruins the surprise element of receiving gifts.

[@phantoml255]

The other thing about the christmas essays it that it would bring a lot of shame down on the kids' shoulders. That's a lot of heavy topics that they'll be having to research, and it would likely make them feel directly responsible for the suffering of people across the world. Having that put on them by their parents in response to having too big a wish list is way harsher than when they learn about it in school or online, and inadvertently sends the message that their parents think they're bad kids for wanting stuff associated with that suffering

[@nazrobinson5200]

Regarding the Christmas gifts for kids for our daughter we get something she wants, something she needs (if somethings broken and needs replacing or something she’s growing out of, etc), something practical and usually a new outfit and several random bits.

[@emmafischell622]

You should react to r/bestofredditorupdates sometime. You sometimes wonder about what happened after AITA posts and BORU only has posts with at least one update, many from AITA but other similar subs too

[@ladylaudanum8663]

Could the kids not do some volunteer work to show them the issues with poverty. Then re evaluate their expectations

[@GraveyardMaiden]

Tbh OP had them do the reports after one of her kids told her "target exists" as a response to being told they wouldn't be able to get everything on their lists, and while volunteer work would be cool given the amount of shit they're getting by just having the kids do some research on the products, OP would probably get accused of child abuse for having their teens volunteer in a soup kitchen for a Saturday

[@SaruCharmed]

I don't really understand your stance on the last one. You say don't provide people ultimatums but also, that you don't choose for others. Let them choose. But also you're saying that if she doesn't want to be there, don't be there. Isn't that literally what she's doing? She's saying she won't be there if the BW is there. This only affects holidays it sounds like. On other days, when the BW is not there, she could still visit. I don't think it's an "ultimatum", she is just stating fact. Either she will be there or I will. I don't think this is meant to punish anyone, it sounds like she just doesn't want to be around that crap, which is understandable, and that is just a result that she has no power over. I also don't think an ultimatum is always bad or unfair. It's a last ditch attempt to save the relationship before giving up on it completely. These can be unfair and manipulative when it's something like "If you keep being friends with this person, we are through" (depending on why they don't want this friend in the picture, like for example if the friend is very disrespectful to them), but totally fair and understandable if it's something like "If you sleep with her, we are through" (although this doesn't usually need to be said if you're not already suspecting they will do so, in which case, it's probably a doomed relationship anwyay if you don't have that trust, but you get what I'm saying). Whether an ultimatum is wrong or not completely depends on the terms of the ultimatum.

[@GachaLifeGirl]

I remember on Christmas, my family gave a lot of expensive gifts to us. I remember narrowing down which ones I’d use more and which ones we liked. All of those gifts tended to be somewhat expensive, but my favorites were always cheaper, like my Sister Location Funko Pops. You don’t need something expensive for a good Christmas. My most memorable one was full of plushies. OP shouldn’t be making them do homework for gifts.

[@Luca-cr8be]

I'm just wondering, do you still think it's completely wrong to ever say you won't come if someone else is there if it's someone who was abusive towards you in some way as opposed to just someone who has caused problems with the family and is manipulative. Like I have actual real trauma over my uncles emotional abuse towards me and I've never given an ultimatum but i don't think it would be wrong if I did? Like if I was like "you need to tell him he can't come bc of me" then that wouldn't be okay but if I just honestly say I'm not gonna come if he's there, i don't think that's wrong. the way she flat out said that it was her or the other person does suck and puts too much pressure on anyone but if she'd just said in a kind way something like, "I'm not going to be able to attend bc I'm not comfortable being around ___ but i hope you all have fun" in a genuine day then yeah that maybe sounds a little harsh but also is totally fair and a boundary anyone should be allowed to set. So literally I would be okay with this entirely if it wasn't for the fact that she flat out MADE the others choose between her and the kid. And I'm just wondering if you'd also be against someone just honestly saying they can't go if someone's going to be there if they're not saying the others have to choose between the two? Given that you weren't against the trans man who didn't want to show up I'm assuming your main issue is with the specific handling but I'm not sure. Also even before I heard the thing about the expensive glasses, I was thinking that yeah, glasses CAN be a present but only if the person already has reliable glasses or contacts already and just happens to want something fancy or different. Like I got glasses that I only had to pay $6 for bc of insurance and they worked perfectly fine but I went and bought myself a $70 pair of rainbow frame glasses bc I wanted them and bc gay. I'm an adult who was making my own money but if I had been a kid I wouldn't expect a parent to buy those glasses when I already had reliable ones but if I didn't have any, yeah they should buy me some. And presents shouldn't be things they need that you'd have to buy for them anyway bc that's not a present. They don't have to "need" or even have a good reason to want presents. The parents also don't have to get them expensive stuff but that's just something they need to talk about and make sure the kids know that they're not going to get everything on the wish list

[@kawaiicharlie9650]

With the essays for xmas, i think ot would depend on what the kids are doing as well, during ny time at school and college ect i had a lot of essays to do around xmas and if i needed to write essays for my presents, i wouldn't get any presents for xmas. I get that you want them to appreciate their gifts but there are other ways of doing that

[@Sicara91]

I think the point of the research paper is more than just learning the value of money, but knowing about ethical purchases. It is extremely hard to escape unethical companies when it comes to food, but when it comes to luxury items I can see wanting your kid to know that the really cool thing is actually really bad for the environment, it's more than just how much money it costs but the whole cost of the item. That being said having to write a research paper for every item is extreme and Christmas is not the time to teach this lesson. I also agree that you shouldn't expect everything on your wishlist, I often put way too many things at different price points so people have options. If someone expects everything then there needs to be more of a conversation.

[@jessiebartholomew-smythe8096]

Reports for presents story: 1. Give them a budget and require they choose gifts that fit in that budget - no more 2. You give them a presentation on the companies and their ethics and see if the children still want those things

[@Anmaeriel]

Merry Holidays Shaaba!! Thank you for the content!

[@BiggerinRealLife]

“Not all wishes have to come truuue” in singsong was 👩🏽‍🍳💋Shaaba is the the fairy godmother we all need.

[@koalaskrypin]

I remember asking for expensive things as a kid, because I had no way of getting them for myself. It was one of the wonders of christmas to wish for unobtainable things. Like, I live in sweden and we had friends in the UK that we exchanged gifts with, so I would wish for things I knew weren't available in sweden but in the UK in the hopes of my parents asking our friends to help them get it. BUT I never thought in a million years I would get everything on my wish list, I knew, depending on the cost, I would get maybe 2 or 3. And I rarely got the really expensive gifts, even though we weren't "poor" and if I did it was one out of 2 gifts and the other being a more "from the heart"-gift (mostly my dad bought that one) and just ONE time in all of my childhood I actually got a gift from abroad that I had asked for. I was always happy with what I got, and of the UK gifts that was mostly candy and books I still use a few (non edible) items that I cherish. And I agree with you, Shaaba, a kid should not get nessecities for christmas like glasses.... BTW, I would never ask a kid to write a report... BUT if I did, I would probably ask them to reserach the companies sustainability goals and eco friendliness and if they are fair trade and not. Things that help the kids think about overconsumption and stuff like that.

[@freddie.spaghetti]

for the one with the reports, i feel like the problem is that the kids just… havent been taught to really have a good grasp on money or the value of things, and that seems… like a bit of a screw-up from the parents’ side? like, from my perspective, that is something you start teaching your kids quite young, and it’s something you need to have in mind as you raise them. it’s on the parents to help their kids have a healthy relationship with money and spending, and thats not something you can just suddenly try to impliment (and definitely not in the way they’re doing)

[@cheriestl]

Phone story: avoid this situation by setting monetary limits. Express boundaries. Don’t expect mind reading.

[@riamarra]

Wrt the gift one, I kinda get the impression (and I know my knowledge is very limited based on the information given) that these kids are used to being spoiled, and this is just the year they got a little too audacious for the parents' liking? At the end of the day, kids don't spoil themselves, they are spoiled by their parents. I agree that, if they are expecting everything on their lists, that they need to be taught a few lessons, but not the ones their parents have decided to teach. They're going about the whole thing the wrong way. Like the glasses for example. If their daughter already has several pairs of glasses and a regular supply of contact lenses, then yeah, another pair, especially a pair that expensive, is absolutely reasonable to fall under the category of a gift rather than a necessity. But not knowing who owns the company that makes the glasses is completely irrelevant. You're teaching the wrong lessons.

[@emeraldqueen1994]

For XMASS / my birthday I give my mom a MASSIVE list of things I want with some sort of marking like an asterisk (*) next to my prioritized items so she can pick what she wants to get me (it’s still a surprise, but she’s guaranteed NOT to get something that I wouldn’t like…. She’s NOT getting the whole list MAYBE 4 - 5 things out of 5 - 8 FULL PAGES of options, but she at least has an idea of what I want!

[@minikipp8549]

3:44 I'm not sure if the dad has a super amount of choice as op said his dad is financially dependent on the step mum so he can't simply leave and he may not have known she was transphobic when he married