I don't want to raise my biological child r/AITA 1 800 Drama Podcast

1 800 Drama Episode 12 is live! In this week's r/AITA deep dive, we discuss confronting spouses in public, pregnancy announcements, and whether there's an obligation to look after a child just because of biology! 🎣
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Be kind and have a great day (:

[@looseleaflyra]

Holy shit, the listener submission is mine. I really appreciate everything you two had to say and I'm happy to tell you that A and M are expecting their first child this September! I was actually listening to this in the background while crocheting a stuffed animal for the little guy. I am in fact not the surrogate, only an egg donor, I apologize for not making that clear. And we will absolutely be explaining everything to the child (in an age-appropriate manner) as soon as possible. We have had many conversations with families and friends and almost everyone has come around. It did mostly come down to the concept being new and unconscious homophobia. The sexism aspect is not one I have thought of but I think you may be right, at least in regards to a couple specific people. About the whole "confusing the kid" thing. While writing that submission I had yet to do adequate research on the topic, but I have since educated myself. Everything the two of you said is completely true. In regards to telling family and friends, I understand keeping it vague however we agreed it would be much easier to get it out of the way as quickly as possible. We knew that A and M's families would have many questions and opinions, we just expected them to be more out of confusion and less judgemental. Perhaps an oversight on our part. Looking back, we could have waited to tell our friends. While there were a few people we definitely wanted to tell, it would have been easier if we kept it at that. We just happen to be a very close group. Either way, everything has worked out and I am so happy for A and M. Once again, thank you so much.

[@Nymwhen]

You're doing such a wonderful thing for your friends and I'm really glad your family and friends came around! Wishing you all the best!!

[@malter95]

Congratulations to all of you! All the best to the baby and the neat little village they get to grow up in.

[@kittysunlover]

Ahhh thank you for sharing this update with us! Congratulations to A & M, and hurray for most of your network coming around and being better humans for the experience. Your very generous gift has done much more than help create one new life, it sounds like.

[@missnaomi613]

Not only are you Not the Drama, but you sound like an amazing friend! ❤

[@alex_blue5802]

Oh I'm so happy! A lot of these stories are really negative so it's nice to get a happy ending.

[@JenniSeven7]

"Daddy and Papa wanted a baby, but they needed help from a lady to make one, so they asked Auntie OP, and she said, 'You would be wonderful dads! I would love to help make baby Boo!' So they all went to the doctor together and made me!" - That kid explaining to their friends why they have two dads and no mom in 6 or 7 years, no sweat.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

I love how you put that. It definitely seems “it will confuse the child” is almost always a very thin cover for “it will make the old bigots uncomfortable”

[@zoekrishel6677]

☝️YES! It is that easy. People often use the ‘but how would you explain it to the child!!??’ argument when protesting alternative approaches to making a baby or having any lifestyle out of the ‘norm’. I think it’s just a way to excuse their own bigotry or bias.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

@@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse This. Kids simultaneously find _nothing_ weird and _everything_ weird, because they're still learning how things work and how things are "supposed" to work, so they only genuinely find parenting arrangements off-putting when they've been taught to. (OP's situation is the positive version of that. The negative version is that kids growing up in toxic families often don't have the context to recognize it, which is why _seeing different kinds of healthy families is important_ whenever possible.)

[@seeleunit2000]

​@@zoekrishel6677 Pretty much

[@Aktimoose]

it's so weird because it's not like parents explain in any more detail how they made a child even if they're heterosexual (because that would be inappropriate) so why do they think anything more complicated is required when there's anything further out the norm?

[@WulfWhistle]

My mom had terrible breath while I was a teen, a lot of her teeth were broken and rotting. My stepdad would deliberately insult her and make her feel terrible about herself. Her teeth were beyond saving and she needed dentures, but it was incredibly expensive and she was raising 3 kids. She's single now, with grown kids and was able to get dentures. She's much happier without that guy in her life. This guy definitely has his vibes, definitely the asshole to me

[@jaceevens654]

Okay, I'm only asking this as you have experience with this personally. I don't mean any harm please take my question as genuinely as possible. I've never dealt with someone that has that bad of breath before, and as someone with sensory issues its very hard for me to avoid a bad reaction to things. Was it something that you could avoid reacting to knowing it was there? And if so then yeah op is asshole. Personally i don't comment on how people communicate things as how everyone takes things is different. I'm just genuinely wondering if it's something that, for a person without sensory issues, they can ignore? I'm not using next statement as comparison to the smell as I don't know what it is, but I think its not strange for someone to gag at garbage smell. Or is that just cause it's socially acceptable? I'm being genuine and would really appreciate an answer. Sorry your mom and your family had to deal with that dick.

[@1234scann]

The difference being that he wants her to get her teeth fixed. You are more likely to have a heart attack if you have poor dental hygiene, maybe he just wants her to be around for her kids and is a bit insensitive about it (he says there's money to pay for it).

[@WulfWhistle]

@@1234scann Regardless of his intentions, the way he talks about her isn't focused on her health or safety, but on his personal disgust, and he's downright bullying her online to do it. You don't change a person's behavior with shame, not if you love them.

[@faygo_cupcake]

Both my parents have denchers due the the same reason and there only in there 40's and I'm 24 and have had 2 molers pulled and need 3 more pulled for the same reason just what happends when you grew up under the poverty line and still are you just can't afford it

[@blackmoonroze9336]

It's not easy to live with something that repulses you for a year, so I do get how kind words will not be used. But yea, it definitely doesn't show love. I get why they would be insulting and hurtful, but yea, it sounds like the love at this point has gone out of the window.... My mom also had some issues with her teeth too, my parents are still together BUT not a great relationship... bad breath affects intimacy, and that in turn makes the whole relationship weaker. :/ Glad your mom is happier now and hope your dad is not a horrible person in general and you have a good father figure in your life too

[@oliverg6864]

To be fair to OP in the tooth story, it is truly hard to underestimate how bad the breath of someone with rotting teeth can be. Our cat had to have extensive dental work (12 teeth removed) due to cavities and tooth resorption. Before the procedure his breath smelled like rotting flesh. It was the most disgusting thing imaginable. You couldn't put your face near his mouth. Op is probably at their wits end and not being nice anymore. And yes we did spend 4k on dental work for our cat lol!

[@rage_of_aquarius]

My dog has the same issue, and her mouth smells like a wharf. Her favorite toy is a plush fish and we joke that she's made it smell totally real.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

OP and wife are both the drama in the dentist story I think. Oral healthcare isn’t just about cavities and bad breath. Poor dental hygiene has been directly linked to heart disease, kidney damage, pregnancy complications and a ton of other problems. OP is making this about bad breath, which (while frustrating) shouldn’t be the main point when wife is in poor health. Wife is avoiding critical healthcare and refusing to deal with an ongoing medical issue (I’m imagining if someone was refusing to see a doctor despite a giant tumor growing on their arm or a gangrenous wound).

[@Nathan_Bookwurm]

And this situation seems to be going on for a long time. OP probably brought it up nicely for months, so at some point you're just done with being nice. Smell sensitivity needs to be taken seriously. I wouldn't be able to sleep next to someone who smells bad into my face, or be able to talk to them closely to their face. We don't know if OP has smell sensitivity, but either way the wife is putting her burden on OP by making OP deal with her smell. The longer she puts off going to the dentist, the more resentful OP will get and the harsher they're going to be reacting.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

@@Nathan_Bookwurm yeah that’s a really good point. I would start getting very frustrated in OP’s place I think. Wife is likely nose-blind to it but it’s likely that other people have/will notice too. I would expect my partner to let me know if something like this was going on

[@SRHtheHedgehog]

Yeah I also immediately got red flags from the way she insisted they were "over exaggerating." Tells me that she's not even taking it seriously and it goes beyond her being concerned about money, and OP seems to be rude af about the whole thing even to her face.

[@s.a.4358]

That was also my immediate though, it’s not just about the bad breathe but poor dental hygiene can cause other serious issues, not to mention that with time the wife could risk needing to get teeth pulled or other irreversible consequences. Yes the dentist is expensive but by having regular checkups one can actually avoid more costly interventions. I don’t think OP is going about it the right way but I can also understand getting seriously frustrated and also worried about a loved one refusing to take care of a medical problem.

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

@@s.a.4358 exactly. I understand cost is an issue, but leaving something infected in there is so so dangerous. The biggest cost in dental work is typically the caps, implants, and whatever they put in, but taking things out is much less. If this is the US they could find a dental school or low cost option to at least get the infected teeth out. One of my first jobs involved surgical planning for jaw and facial reconstruction. The worst cases by far were from infections that got into the bone. Worse than cancer, car crash or even gsw. The infected bone would just disintegrate.

[@marieugorek5917]

What do you do for dental and medical care in the US if you can't afford it? 1) there are charities which travel around and do free dental work -- like they'll set up in an arena for a day and help as many people as they can from 8 AM to 5 PM, then move on to another city. 2) there are free clinics that do GP services, and the best of these have deals with specialists, including dentists, who will take x number of patients for free per month. 3) you can often work out a payment plan with providers. 4) Emergency departments are required to treat all patients, but then you can end up with a huge bill. The greatest cause of private bankruptcy filings in the US are due to medical debt.

[@jynxlinks]

Another thing that people I know have done (my mom, for one) is travel to Mexico for a cheaper dental experience. Pretty sad that it's cheaper to go to ANOTHER COUNTRY and pay for lodging and dental work than get certain things done in the U.S. :/

[@shelleykoone2987]

Depending on how low a person's income is, there are insurance options for low income families and individuals which include dental or vision care. Some of these are government funded programs (free to those who qualify) and some are super cheap. Also as previously mentioned, many clinics will work with you especially if you are paying cash by offering discounts to people without insurance and setting up payment plans for people who can't pay all at once.

[@vcutler4735]

I don't get dental work abroad but I do often get glasses abroad, or flying internally in the US since the cost of new lenses plus flight are cheaper in California than my state. And the cost of exam and glasses domestically is like 300-500 meanwhile exam and frames+lenses in an hour in Japan is easily 80-90. So I often roll the cost into a vacation to Japan when I luck into finding a 600-800 flight deal. US prices for medical stuff is absolutely crazy and vision insurance is just a literal scam for how much it costs versus how much it pays out.

[@spectilia]

Just want to add to this that, in a lot of cases, the cheapest option for fixing dental issues is just getting the tooth pulled, which understandably freaks some people out. I wouldn't be surprised if this is something the wife has considered and doesn't want to go to the dentist, only for the cheapest option to solve the issue being loosing a tooth.

[@violetsnotroses3640]

I just want to add that the cost of dental care isn’t the only factor. If you have a major phobia of the dentist, you might not be able to make an appointment or even do the research to find out what help is available.

[@leighann9608]

For the first dental story, it's a HUGE deal that she has that bad of breath even with regular brushing. You can get oral cancers from gingivitis getting out of hand, not to mention it will spread to her other teeth and she'll need dentures, assuming her gums are still strong enough.

[@s.a.4358]

Stomach problems can also cause bad breathe, however I do agree that if it is as bad as OP makes it sound, there is probably a true and potentially serious medical concern.

[@whiteraven562]

Also Teeth health affects Heart health

[@katie6731]

​@@whiteraven562 You are absolutely correct. Oral healthcare is incredibly important. The brain, kidneys, and immune system are also impacted by tooth decay. People with diabetes, certain autoimmune diseases, and other chronic conditions can exacerbate their symptoms and worsen the damage to their body if they do not receive regular dental care. It's awful that so many people are unable to get proper oral care, whether it's because of cost, fear, or another barrier. There are dentists who will sedate patients to help them through appointments. Of course, that is an extra expense.

[@iliasodyssee9626]

The thing that annoys me about the first one and the reason I think op is the drama is that op never once says they're concerned about their wife's health. The only reason op says wife should see a dentist is that op doesn't want to smell her bad breath.

[@zoekrishel6677]

They also were not kind or concerned about their wifes fear/anxiety. Maybe offer to go with or find a dentist that specializes in people who are afraid of dentistry. There are also sedation dentists who will give ‘twilight sleep’ or other medication.

[@shhimreading906]

who would be happy if their daughter/sibling announced she was pregnant with a baby from the guy she's always fighting with? and not only that she also can't support herself enough (or refuses) to get her own pet spayed. like??? girl you're not ready for a family or a baby.

[@s.a.4358]

This! I would be worried about my sibling having a child with a partner with whom they fight a lot. Also the whole comment about having a child because she is lonely…. That’s not a responsible reason to bring a tiny human into the world. Then the whole money issue. Children are really expensive and they currently cannot even take care of their dog appropriately. While Camie has not asked, I don’t think it’s far out to assume the grandparents will need to offer more financial support once the baby has arrived.

[@shhimreading906]

@@s.a.4358 literally tho. being lonely is not a reason to have a kid. she’s totally going to end up asking for more money from the grandparents. she just does not seem stable or responsible enough to have a baby atm

[@toxiczombiewolf5692]

That child is gonna be screwed growing up mentally I feel so bad.

[@tabathaalshalhoub1653]

When my first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, my husband told me it was ok if I was never pregnant again, as we had options. And that’s one of the reasons we’re still together after 15 years 🥰🥰🥰

[@toxiczombiewolf5692]

That's a good man

[@crazycatchick4111]

As someone who's Aro/Ace and has recently been diagnosed with PCOS and has had infertility issues, it sets my blood boiling that a lot of cishet people who SHOULDN'T EVER be parents for any number of reasons find it so easy to become parents and treat it so nonchalantly... you're telling me you're so *bored* that entering the lifelong commitment that is parenthood is a legitimate option for you, seriously?!!😑

[@ZoeJasper9]

What Shaaba said at the end that's what I was thinking. This may not be homophobia but sexism. "But a baby need its MOTHER" "How can a MOTHER abandon her baby?" Edit But it still involves homophobia as well because if the child was going to a het couple then that might not concern them as much. Its just all bad.

[@someonewithazeldaprofilephoto]

For sure it's both!! Especially because of the point Shaaba made. If A or M donated to OP or OP's partner there might not have been a fuss at all.

[@KidCity1985]

Babies need both parents for the best outcome.

[@ZoeJasper9]

@@KidCity1985 And it would have both parents both A and M either you're not paying attention at all or your homophobia is showing.

[@Timmytheabomination]

“If you can’t afford it, what do you do?” If you don’t have insurance you just don’t get sick. If you have to be hospitalized, you get debt. There are charities and systems that are in place to help, but the commercialization of healthcare (at least in the states) is ridiculous.

[@MiriamKorlee]

That is sad and wrong and dehumanising 😢

[@toxiczombiewolf5692]

In the uk most health care is free buy the quality of care is so bad. They almost killed me and I have to live with the trauma tried to sue but nothing.

[@xLostInFirex]

My dad's friend died of a tooth (I think it was a wisdom tooth?) infection and that was like around the 70's or 80's (or maybe even 90's?); he was young and otherwise healthy, too. I mean yea, there's obviously help available but the friend also just didn't go to the dentist so he didn't get that help. He got an infection that lead to blood poisoning and then death. I think it happened fairly quick, too - I think about a few days (or maybe like a week?) after he first got the fever. So don't joke with dental care, guys and if any kind of fever shows up then RUN to the doctor!

[@lucienmyette6205]

I had a family friend die from a tooth infection as well and that’s all I could think of when listening to the dental story.

[@Insertia_Nameia]

I almost died. I got sepsis. If I went to the hospital just a fee hours later I likely could've died. It was that close to getting to my brain. If that happened, there would've been no saving me.

[@fluuufffffy1514]

My mom's cat died of this too 😿

[@xLostInFirex]

@@Insertia_Nameia Damn, I'm sorry - really glad you survived! I think I was about to go to sepsis (or at high risk for it?) from tonsillitis, the doc wanted to send me to ER but tried to increase the antibiotics in a last ditch effort and I was lucky enough to start getting better at the last minute. It's crazy how seemingly "usual things" like tooth and throath infections can get so life-threatening so fast (for me it was only about a few days from when it started to when it got to a life-threatening stage and I was even on antibiotics from the very start).

[@s.a.4358]

This!! OP is willing to use the $2000, which may not be enough but it is something, and the wife is just being stubborn about something that could be really serious.

[@j.genovese1769]

Just as someone with a history of fairly intense medical anxiety (and subsequent avoidance) that I’ve made a lot of progress with: the fear and shame surrounding healthcare, INCLUDING the fear of being a financial burden (though I often used that as an excuse to cover for deeper fears of pain, medical gaslighting, and dysphoria) prevented me from being able to address a few different issues in a timely manner. Someone telling me “that’s gross/dangerous/scary, you need to go to a doctor and get help” actually only served to increase my shame and anxiety because I was terrified of medical professionals making those same judgements or not being able to help me easily. The most effective encouragement came from a place of love and support: “hey I really care about you and I think you deserve to be healthy,” “i can go with you/make the appointment for you/walk you through what they’ll probably do,” “i totally get not wanting to go, but it’s something we all have to do and they can probably help!” “Don’t worry about the cost, we’ll figure it out, I want you to be healthy.” The issue with that bad breath story isn’t OP wanting the wife to get help, it’s the fact that OP was insulting, shaming, and fear-mongering in the process yknow? It’s not just mean, it’ll absolutely backfire.

[@Paigewe]

It’s not fear-mongering though sadly. Having untreated dental problems is very dangerous. Having teeth fall out is honestly the least of it, you have increased risks of blood infections, increased risk for gum disease, increased risks of heart disease, including heart attacks, strokes etc. He should do it more kindly of course. Neither are communicating effectively though.

[@bboops23]

​@@PaigeweI had a poorly done root canal done in college and finally an extraction done 10ish years later. My husband brought up how much less angry I was after the extraction. How many little health problems just went away. My migraines literally got significantly better (they still exist, but they were unmanageable for a while). I stopped having most of my stomach issues. Like things you wouldn't expect to be related. Tooth issues are full body health issues

[@Paigewe]

@@bboops23 people really underestimate how much oral health impacts the whole body! I’m glad you’re doing better after the extraction.

[@j.genovese1769]

@@Paigewe of course! My point is just that telling someone with severe avoidant medical anxiety all the horrific ways something could go wrong or get worse or kill them or permanently injure them is VERY LIKELY to make it harder and more upsetting for them to get help. It just shouldn’t be the focus of a conversation like that.

[@crystalstyles411]

In the US, if we don’t have insurance, we just don’t get treatment, or we have major debt. Dental insurance is cheaper than medical insurance, and if you’re low income, you might qualify for welfare benefits including medical care and dental care.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

Dental insurance also, unlike medical insurance, can have annual and lifetime coverage _maximums_ -- so if your dental work goes over a certain amount, you're on the hook for 100% of the additional cost.

[@e.dnorth]

@@M_M_ODonnell yup and if you spend a period of time without dental insurance, most dental insurances won't cover anything "major" until you've had coverage for a year or two.

[@augustl8876]

It's been some time since i've been on medicaid, but when i was on it, dental benefits were not covered for people aged 21 or older. teeth were considered luxury bones. it's good to hear that dental is covered now.

[@dirano09]

I (in the US) do know things like cleaning and x-rays can be done by volunteering at a dental school. I did that at my local community college when I didn't have dental insurance. If it's something big, they can help point you in the right direction sometimes, too. I only had two small cavities, so I decided not to press the issue. But, high-risk issues are things dentists are very willing to work with you on, and many medical places here in the US have individual programs for those without insurance.

[@alex.bane.1600]

Kind of unrelated but shaaba's hair is incredible😍

[@WhatWouldLubitschDo]

I find it relevant!

[@Knitting_in_seattle]

My take on the last one is that it seems like it’s more an issue for everyone that a woman doesn’t want to be a parent. Like she’s a horrible person for not raising her kid rather than donors in general are bad or even that the gay parents aren’t enough. It seems like a misogyny thing, like all women are born caretakers and mothers and if you don’t want that you’re a horrible person. I think if it was a lesbian couple wanting a baby and the male donor wasn’t going to be a parent no one would think anything of it

[@user-yu8xb3sc2h]

That's what I was thinking too

[@solsystem1342]

Yeah, and even though more quality parents is better (be they partner, co-parent, grandparent, etc) I still think, if op doesn't want to be the kid's parental figure. It's going to be way better to have two dads that love and support the child than adding a mom that's only there because she feels obligated to. Because the quality and safety of attachment to parents is the most important factor. Bonus parents only apply when they bonus parent actually wants to be there.

[@kaltespopcorn4087]

That’s what I thought too

[@knitandcatboodle]

Hating cats is a red flag. You can dislike cats or prefer to not have one, but outright hate is a red flag. I agree with Shaaba about cats checking out vibes. We got our first cat, who was "really shy," when he walked right up to my husband and let him pet him. My husband wasn't a big cat fan, but didn't hate them. He's now firmly in team cat! And that super shy cat is now the most social cat. He'll actually come out and greet guests.

[@bboops23]

Same with full blown hating dogs. I get being scared of certain animals or having a preference for dogs vs cats or vice versa. I'm a dog person through and through. My husband is an all around animal lover and if he said let's get a cat in the future I'd say, sure so long as we find a cat that fits our family's needs. I have an aunt who hates dogs. She's a bad person and her hatred of dogs is very similar in nature to her racist tendencies and I know that not everyone is like that, but it's wild to hear this woman explain how she acted shitty to dogs then they chased her so she hates them then hear how she acts shitty to people of color and they call her out on it so she hates them. Blind hatred with no logic is never right.

[@Amy-oo7mm]

Andy Hallett, who played Lorne on Angel, died of congestive heart failure in 2009. It was caused by a dental infection. He was only 33 years old. You are quite correct about the dangers of bad dental hygiene, even today.

[@galaxy8374]

Some people have HUGE sensory sensitivities (like me) so the bad breath would be intolerable...I can understand addressing it gently and nicely to start, but if my partner didn't go to the dentist after a year I would probably start to be harsh too!

[@ivysylvan]

US citizen, as well as the spouse of someone with chronic bad breath and poor teeth. Until I got my current job, we never had the money for proper dental care, as well as my wife being horrifically scared of dentists. There are low-cost clinics and dental schools where you can get inexpensive treatment, sometimes even free, but those clinics book up FAST. If you can get an appointment at all, it's usually months of waiting. Which only compounded the issues. By the time we were able to see a dentist, it was tens of thousands of dollars, just for *her*. That's not even including for me. But there are ways to work this out as a couple. We've arranged her appointments to be on my days off whenever possible so I can be there with her. If she has a hand to hold while the dentist works, it's not so scary.

[@fifinoir]

As far as I’m aware. Tooth and gum problems, especially chronic, can lead to heart disease. If your body is constantly fighting infections it will inflame and damage blood vessels. Oral health is whole body health really. Which is why it should be included on the NHS.

[@elizabethcrowley8437]

I have to pretend that I hate cats or the fact that I'm allergic would make me too sad

[@ashthebash7131]

Me too 😢

[@sdfghjasdfghjk8175]

Insurance in the US covers allergy shots, that you could potentially only have to take for a year and rid yourself of the allergic reaction

[@jess-mx]

@@sdfghjasdfghjk8175 When I went in for a consult on allergy shots, it's a lot longer than a year and even with insurance not necessarily affordable :(

[@blaireshoe8738]

@@sdfghjasdfghjk8175 This varies by insurance, it's definitely worth looking into though, especially if you're exposed to your allergen often ie at work/home and doubly especially for any allergen that can lead to asthma, which includes cats. The coverage levels can vary from complete all the way to not at all, but most offer at least partial coverage for this.

[@emofurryboyfriendasmr]

Also certain foods can reduce cat allergns! if you raise chickens around cats the eggs they lay helps combat those allergy causing enzymes basically

[@morganstiefvater2019]

One of the criticisms the last OP got was that if she's going to contribute to bringing a child into the world, she has a responsibility to make sure it's taken care of. I agree with this, but I think it's also clearly covered by the rest of the context. She knows who the parents are going to be, and thinks they're going to be good enough parents that she's willing to help them have a baby, and they've had the conversations about how the baby will be raised. That's kind of all we can ask of anyone.

[@abigailhoneycombe]

I always look forward to these, and then it reaches Monday and I completely forget and then I get a happy surprise

[@vidunderligverden]

Why is this so accurate!?

[@Charlotte-hv6ll]

Exactly this!!!

[@Telarii]

If she says she can't go to the dentist because of the costs, then just you wait until it gets so bad that she'll have no choice but to seek help - and THEN that's gonna cost so much more. Nevermind that a tooth infection can be extremely dangerous, even life threatening. I see now that it was mentioned by a commenter, but it's worth reinstating - teeth problems are way more dangerous than a lot of people think.

[@alinahiller1878]

Okay, ich bin aus Deutschland und ich würde das ja auch auf Englisch übersetzen, aber ich kann es besser auf Deutsch erklären. Meine Mutter ist eine zahnarzthelferin und deswegen kriege ich da so einiges mit vor allem was mundhygiene angeht, habe auch selber an der Rezeption einer zahnarztpraxis gearbeitet. Kinder und Erwachsene angstpatienten waren auch mit dabei... Der Punkt bei der ersten Geschichte ist. Wenn der Atem so stark riecht wie beschrieben, muss dringend was gemacht werden. Es können so viele folgekrankheiten entstehen, wenn man sich nicht um solche schwerwiegenden zahnprobleme kümmert, dass der Atem riecht, die sogar dazu führen können, dass man im Krankenhaus landet oder sogar stirbt... Aber ich bin der Meinung. Man kann das auch anders sagen, vor allem zu jemandem, den man eigentlich liebt und wertschätzen sollte. Ich hoffe sehr der Übersetzer. Der automatische hier auf youtube macht keinen Schrott aus dieser Nachricht... Edit. Wenn man keine Schmerzen mehr spürt dann ist der Zahn tot und rottet eigentlich nur noch im Mund vor sich hin kann auch zu Mundgeruch führen und auch noch zu mehr Problemen.

[@s.a.4358]

Ja ganz einverstanden. Es ist nicht normal so einen schlechten Atem zu haben, vor allem für jemanden der 2 mal pro Tag Zähne putzt. Und die Frau ist noch NIE zum Zahnarzt gegangen… Ich verstehe dass es in den USA teuer ist aber es scheint ein seriöser Problem zu geben und sie riskiert noch viel schlimmeres. OP ist nicht besonders nett gewesen in der ganzen Sache, aber ich wäre liebe nicht nett zu meinem Partner als zu riskieren das er/sie schlimmer gesundheitlich Probleme bekommt.

[@dangerousfeather]

Tip for those who cannot afford routine dental care in the USA: find a local dental school or school that offers dental hygiene courses. They often need patients for their students to demonstrate their skills on, and they offer free cleanings and check-ups as a way to encourage volunteers.

[@bboops23]

By me you can get free routine care or pay something like $100 per procedure for complex care. So a root canal is $100. Filling a cavity is like $30 per for less than 4 or $100 flat for more than 4. They are first come, first serve, and have two weekends a month with two check in times a day. It's super useful for people who are uninsured or can't afford care even with insurance.

[@gilesluver]

#1 we don't know how much OP has tried over the last year to approach her nicely. At this point, it's just frustration.

[@spaceorc1397]

Cats are okay, dogs are good, but rats are where it's at. Edit: I've had a lot of cavities filled, and it's not painful, it shouldn't be painful, they numb you.

[@rayjohnson67]

i also hade cavities, no matter how much they numbed, I always felt it on some level, its different from person to person, also sometime they want you to feel it on some level to know if they are doing something wrong, pain is importent.

[@kichikitsu]

​@@rayjohnson67????? whenever i started to feel them working on my cavities they'd numb me MORE, up until one time they straight up had to reschedule bc my one tooth was far too sensitive. are you sure your dentist just didn't care enough to make sure you weren't in pain??

[@thecolorjune]

Rats rats rats rats! 🐀

[@thecolorjune]

I have had one cavity filled and it was NOT pleasant, but it was also okay. I’m squeamish about teeth, but fixing a cavity is much less painful than letting a cavity worsen. 🧡

[@kichikitsu]

@@thecolorjune fr. I ended up with a tooth abscess that took months to be treated (not my choice; I was a minor and my mother didn't give a shit) and my god. The pain is blinding and you can feel it in your skull. I have issues with lockjaw, and the abscess kicked it into overdrive to the point I could barely eat anything bc even small chewing movements were too painful on my jaw. It's just not worth it.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Being a parent even for a pet or a plant is hard work. I want to finish parenting myself first.

[@katharineeavan9705]

I've always had naff teeth but the issues went crazy after having a kid - like any decay was put on triple speed. This made it so much harder for me to go to the dentist (which was already crazy hard with how expensive it is + generalised anxiety) because of how much shame and embarrassment there is associated with poor teeth, and because I felt like each time I was going it was to either deal with a chronic infection and get told I'd be losing a tooth, or to have a tooth removed. It was extremely traumatic and I now massively struggle with low self esteem over my teeth. I basically live trying my best not to ever think about it except when I have an appointment, and I try to book my appointments at the end of each visit. It genuinely brings me to tears just thinking about it. If someone had acted like OP in that story I genuinely don't know what I would have done with myself, and it certainly wouldn't have motivated me to go to the dentist or to EVER trust that person with any anxiety or insecurity I might have.

[@AuthorDiannaGunn]

She's a grown woman, sure, but she's not just making a decision for herself... she's making a decision for a future child & if she's not mature enough or financially stable that child is gonna grow up with a HUGE host of issues

[@s.a.4358]

The whole grown woman argument doesn’t really work when one is relying on other people to financial support that choice. While Camie has not asked for financial support for pregnancy and child, it’s fair to assume this will be the case considering how she has handled things until then. And the grandparents will very likely help as they do not want the baby to go without, even if they are not pleased with the situation.

[@AuthorDiannaGunn]

@@s.a.4358 That's valid too & the main argument being made in the video. I just wanted to add the extra layer because we (as a society) don't talk enough about how selfish it is to have a kid when you're not ready to actually care for a kid & how when you make the decision to have a kid, you're also making a decision to bring that kid into your current situation - whether or not it's suitable for a child to live in

[@s.a.4358]

@@AuthorDiannaGunn yes I fully agree. I was mainly seeing it from the financial stability angle of being ready, but very valid point about other stability and maturity too. If Camie & her boyfriend were not in a great financial place but willing to make choices for the good of a child, had a stable relationship and otherwise showed maturity, that would be something else. They do not seem responsible at all. Also the whole argument about wanting a child because she is lonely at home, that’s not a good reason!! A baby is not a doll to play with.

[@itsnotmeitsyou2926]

I agree that OP in the first story didn’t approach things kindly, BUT as someone with an annoyingly sensitive sense of smell, I can honestly say that bad odors have caused me to kind of do an unconscious startle before. Especially when I was pregnant. Or to reflexively gag, which is embarrassing for sure. So it might not have been dramatic on OP’s part - it’s possible it was just reflexive. But others’ comments about the OP’s apparent lack of concern for their partner’s health is spot on. If the breath is that bad, it would make me worried about inflammation and infection. They should approach it from a place of concern, not go in with weird hyperbole about Bigfoot…

[@Rikrobat]

Cats are an incredible lesson in boundaries. If you visit a friend and just let the cat choose when to interact with you, you’ll typically have better results than if you try to initiate. Of course there are exceptions, but in my experience, letting the cat suss you out first makes them more comfortable around strangers.

[@misxfitx]

this! I'm the cat whisperer. all my friends tell me "oh, my cat is never this affectionate towards strangers" but all i ever do is, once i see the cat i offer my hand for them to smell me, give them two head pats and then leave them alone to choose when to come. im great with cats, but dogs don't seem to pay much attention to me 😂

[@roselover411]

Very true. One of my cats strongly dislikes one of my friends because she picked him up and wouldn't let him go one time years ago and he has refused to let it go since. If she even tries to pet him he will lash out at her. He does not forget and does not forgive. Meanwhile my other friends he's slightly more accepting of. A couple of them can get away with petting him once or twice before he gets annoyed. The worst thing is that he deliberately puts himself within arms reach, laying on the table right in front of us. And we all have cats ourselves so whenever a cat is within reach we don't even think about it, we all just reach out to pet them. My friends have all gotten swat before because he's a baited trap. But of course he's super affectionate and loves to snuggle with me and my partner only.

[@HumbleWooper]

Absolutely! I pet-sat two cats for some friends a while back, for a week, and was warned I might never see more than running glimpses of one of them the whole time. I treated her like she was invisible even when she was in the room, until day three or four when she jumped in my lap for pets while I was reading a book. I think that's always going to be one of my proudest petsitting moments.

[@daniellecroteau7628]

@@misxfitxit’s because dogs like the opposite usually lol

[@Asongbook]

My friend's cat ignored me hours 0-35. Hour 36 he demanded pets. To be fair, there is a toddler in the house, so that complicated things.

[@kiryanna]

I think a lot of people who don't like cats are actually just judging them based on dog behaviours, and because cats aren't very good dogs (eg often not open and friendly with strangers), people interpret that as being mean or unfriendly Edit to add: in the third story it's not made clear whether OP is going to be only an egg donor or a surrogate as well for A and M. If it's the latter, I can see the need to tell a lot more friends and family what's on the go, and I can also see more of a reason for people to have kind of a knee jerk response that "of course OP should want to be involved in raising the child they birthed." I still agree that OP is totally NTD either way, but I think being the surrogate would just add an extra layer of complexity to people's ability to think about this clearly

[@solsystem1342]

A lot of people don't take the time to know cats either. Like, it's expected that dogs have their own personality more I've found. Which doesn't really line up with my experience. Some cats are super friendly while others don't want to be touched by any human unless it's in a place and time of their choosing and how they like to be pet.

[@ZoeJasper9]

I had an in home nurse that said she didn't like cats but she liked mine because according to her he acted like a dog.

[@apithonor]

With the last story, as an adopted child who knows her biological parents, I cannot suggest enough following science and being honest (as you said Jamie, in age appropriate ways) because I was never confused, upset, or sensitive about my family configuration.

[@Trish620]

I think the surrogate story could also be due to misogyny too. Blaming the woman for bringing the baby into the world.

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

The most hilarious instance of meeting a person who Doesn't Like All Cats Because They Met One Mean Cat.... was meeting a new tech at my vet's office. You'd think that's a place where you'd encounter people who Like Animals in general, and while they may have favorites at least posess a respect for the creatures brought to them for care-- but NOPE! Dude comments on how nice and sweet my cat is by talking about how he thinks all cats are Evil And Out To Get Him. I ask how he got that impression He says when he was a kid his grandma had a cat who HAAAATED him and would attack his legs whenever they visited. I pointed out that is a single individual cat, and a poor data set to support such a broad theory on. Next time I saw him he was a little nicer, no longer talking shit on all cats, but DAYMN how'd you get hired with that pre existing bias, bro???

[@ZoeJasper9]

Not only how did you get hired, but why did you apply?

[@gulplastgaffel]

Maybe he's there for the snakes and lizards 🐍🦎

[@AstronomicalJelly]

a literal vet hating cats is just concerning

[@ZoeJasper9]

@@AstronomicalJelly Yes, yes it is

[@alex_blue5802]

In the US you do not need to pay for medical care upfront. You get a bill in the mail later. A payment plan may be available. Or maybe you just don't pay. Over time the debt will be sold to other companies and they may offer you a deal to pay only a portion of the bill later. Sometimes you declare bankruptcy and lose your house and other assets, but wipe out your debt. Of course some people may try to survive without treatment as well. But if you really need it, you can get treated and figure out the payment later.

[@Sami86K]

I have to pay on the same day as the visit at the dentist.

[@alex_blue5802]

@@Sami86K hmm, dentist might be different then.

[@disasterjay2007]

From what I know, this only applies to emergency care. Anything else, you'll have to pay up front.

[@alex_blue5802]

@@disasterjay2007 I've gotten surprise bills after going to physical therapy or the dermatologist.

[@zekova]

​@@alex_blue5802 yeah because there's extra fees for testing and scans and whatever. Those get processed later and sent in the mail & can easily be as much or more than the cost of the appointment itself :/

[@Truman-smom]

In the US if you are in a certain economic situation or happen to be receiving disability benefits and are in a certain economic bracket you can get state paid medical and dental insurance. But the clinicians are not great

[@Dormirai]

My mom and sibling have to go to an emergency dentist that has a sliding scale for folks with lower incomes. The care is pretty terrible. They've had to have several teeth pulled because of the substandard care.

[@hkandm4s23]

Yeah, realistically most people struggle to pay for dental even with insurance. A lot of people just let dental care go until they have to have emergency extractions or need antibiotics for infections, and then have to use things like medical credit cards to handle the expense.

[@Resilient_Sage88]

Or you have to wait an ungodly amount of time for an opening.

[@bboops23]

I had to once go to a dental college for a really specific procedure because they were the only place in my area with a certain type of dentist (he was one of the professors) and the dental college did procedures for about $100 flat rate (I forget the exact cost), but you were still getting care from students and I can imagine for some people that's more scary than anything. There are definitely options for people who can't afford dental care, but they may not be the best options. I once went to a dentist who took my good insurance and he messed up a tooth so bad I had to get it extracted about 8-9 years later (my husband finally bullied me into going to the dentist because I was in constant pain), so even having good dental insurance doesn't mean excellent care. I have great teeth now, 3 years later because I have kept up my visits, but lordy, I think I never would have gotten care if I had to go to a dental college.

[@elaexplorer]

No dental isn't included for anyone over 21

[@LoraK31]

US person here who has navigated the insurance hellscape! You can get dental insurance separate from medical insurance via your employer or private companies. Some charities and dental offices also have funds to cover people's costs in emergencies (my dental office did this for me when my insurance coverage ended without my knowledge!). In other cases, you can use medical insurance for certain procedures (I'm pretty sure my wisdom teeth surgery was covered by regular medical insurance). So OP's wife would have had options to explore even without insurance

[@Silentgrace11]

Just to add to this, definitely review your medical insurance policies before assuming they will cover x or y procedure, because that will ultimately determine if they will cover certain procedures. Some may not cover dental at all, and others may only cover dental when performed in a medical facility like a hospital. You may also likewise need to check with the facility itself to see what they are classified as from a point of service standpoint (they may only cover it when performed in an outpatient clinic, for example, when the facility you have chosen to go to will only bill it as an office service). Definitely agree that there are options that the OP and their wife should pursue, just definitely make sure to read the fine print lest unexpected expenses shore up when you least expect it 😅 (as someone who works medical denials, where my job is basically pestering insurance companies to make them pay for people’s procedures, as well as someone who has had to navigate the medical and dental insurance hell scapes for a multitude of personal health reasons).

[@vcutler4735]

A note on medical insurance covering dental or vision stuff for adults: they have actually closed a lot of those loopholes over the past few years. I used to get my exam covered via medical insurance since vision insurance wasn't worth the cost. Most insurance policies I have seen have specifically spelled out basically anything that could be covered by dental or vision is no longer covered by medical. There are exceptions for under 18 tho so if you have a kid who needs some work that might be covered in their medical!

[@misxfitx]

i had the same experience as jamie about a dodgy dentist that fucked up a tooth for me and now i need a crown because my tooth continued decaying and chipped. in my case, it was a root canal so it's fine to leave it as is, it's mostly just an aesthetic issue, but im still mad at the dentist that ruined it because now i have to spend a ton of money to fix his mistakes

[@bboops23]

I had a bad root canal and eventually needed a full extraction 😞 it was awful. I got an implant after waiting for my jaw bone to regrow after a year. A bad root canal may be more than aesthetic. So please be careful 🥺

[@maggpiprime954]

In Ontario (province of Canada), minors (and seniors, iirc) have recently been given dental health coverage. The rest of us have to pay out of pocket, which sucks, coz severe dental neglect can lead to serious health issues, not the least of which include diabetes. It's so backwards bananas that teeth and eyes are not considered worthy of standard health coverage.

[@whoahanant]

For that last one I would genuinely ask all those people if they think adoption should work the same way...

[@lupessreturns]

I'm in the camp of "hating cats is a red flag"! I adore cats, and I admittedly would prefer to have at least one in the house for the rest of my life. That being said, I also recognize that people have different experiences and may dislike cats or prefer dogs or other animals, or even just not be an animal person in general. The basic dislike of cats is NOT a red flag. HOWEVER! If someone hates cats, to the point of intentionally and consistently bringing up in conversation how much they hate cats, THAT is a red flag. Cats are exceptionally good at enforcing their boundaries, and if you pay attention to their body language, it's easy enough to see where those boundaries are and just how far you can go before they've had enough. People who hate cats very often (in my experience, at least) are people who dislike being confronted with boundaries that are enforced, and people who dislike having boundaries enforced in response to their behaviors are generally either abusive or otherwise unsafe people to be around.

[@zekova]

💯💯

[@estarramanderley8172]

I don't know about the first one. Bad breath is horrible for me. I set the boundary as well with my husband. As long as he hasn't brushed his teeth, I'm don't kiss him because it really is that revolting and it definitely has altered their sex life and intimacy altogether and for a year... I kinda get losing it. They weren't nice but to recoil involuntarily - I can definitely see that. And they might have tried to advise very understanding in the beginning and she still doesn't do anything about it and acts upset as if surprised. I can see it getting old.

[@Rikigals]

So for the dentist one, when it was said that the person will always feel how much pain they’re in, that’s not always true. My wife and I went to the dentist recently because her wisdom teeth had been bugging her and we finally figured out insurance. What she thought was normal wisdom tooth pain was actually a crater of rot in one of her wisdom teeth. The dentist had to pull it right there so that it didn’t turn septic/abscess. Turns out her brain is just really good at compartmentalizing pain because she had never really had other options other than to just deal with it.

[@lauraevans2104]

You can get emergency dental care at a hospital and some places will let you create a payment plan, but a lot of people just don't get that care. It comes down to can I afford a place to live and food for me and my family for a month or two or do I get a cavity filled. And we can't just go in for the cavity if you haven't been for a while. Usually you have to go through a triage appointment to get x-rays. Then sometimes antibiotics are required before primary care will be given, and then you can go for the appointment. If there are multiple teeth or issues that need to be dealt with, you may have to go for several appointments. So it can be really expensive. Tooth infections can go directly to the brain. Cavities don't always go all the way to the root so there may not be any pain or just sensitivity, but not enough to really say go get it taken care of now. We're also coming out of Covid and we're still months behind on any sort of medical care.

[@BeholdenProductions]

Defs ESH for OP and wife in #1 … It sounds like wife may have a genuine phobia for the dentist and is being super avoidant, so I wouldn’t be surprised if OP is correct that money/insurance is just her way of cloaking that a high level of anticipatory anxiety/fear is holding her back. As an example, I have a needle phobia due to similar family trauma and it took me years to get to the point that I can manage it and stay on top of my health. ~12 years ago, if a doctor ordered tests or it was flu shot season, I just didn’t get the shot or blood test (pure avoidance). As I got more on top of my own journey, that turned into procrastination (I’d face the needles but drag my feet and take months to do it). Now I’m actually on top of tests and shots (let’s call it my “acceptance phase), I even managed to take a very painful cortisone shot in my foot arch for plantar fasciitis. But it took twelve years for me to go from full-on avoidance to procrastination to acceptance and I didn’t do it alone, I had years of therapy which didn’t directly deal with the needle phobia, but a lot of the family trauma adjacent to it, so it helped me come to terms with behaviour that was ultimately just hurting myself in the long run (people with needle phobias have statistically poorer health outcomes precisely because they put off care and diagnostics longer and eschew preventative measures). I’m still petrified of needles, I’ve just found ways to cope and not let that stand in my way of timely care. Back to OP’s wife, the empathic thing to do here would be to lovingly try to unpack this situation with her and find out what her emotional and psychological needs would be to face the dentist for the first time (knowing she’ll likely need a lot of painful work at that!) It may be as simple as she’d feel better equipped to face it if OP joined her and could hold her hand while they drill if she’s that terrified. Maybe some therapy or even just asking her GP for a one-off Xanax or anti-anxiety med (when I recently got lasik - see, progress! they used Xanax for calming patients), would help her face this, or a combination of these or other elements. A supportive loving spouse would set aside their judgement and discomfort at the smell and really hone in on: wow, if it smells that bad that means it must hurt soooo much, to understand how desperately afraid their partner must be if she’s letting it get this bad. OP is focused on a symptom (and really just how that symptom affects OP), OP’s wife is focused on a deflection (money/insurance), while neither of them are talking about or facing whatever emotional or psychological cause is at the root of all of this. They really need to talk this out together and it might need a while to develop a game plan OP’s wife is comfortable with. Like OP hasn’t even offered to help the wife find a dentist that is well-regarded for handling anxious clients (i.e. better suited to provide appropriate care for OP’s wife), it’s so sad to me that OP’s completely missing that their wife’s real issues here run so much deeper and she needs someone to face this with together, not someone to rub it in her face…. So OP sucks for being an unempathic unsupportive partner and OP’s wife sucks for avoiding the work of addressing whatever her underlying fears are to resolve what has clearly become a dire health issue for her. So sad, I hope OP’s wife gets the help and care she needs soon, the pain must be awful!

[@Starving_Phoenix]

Fun fact: dental care is the area of medicine where your regular checkups save you the most money. A lot of tooth stuff doesn't start to cause pain or noticeable signs to the average person until the issue is relatively serious. It's not at all uncommon for people to not realize they have a cavity until they go to their regular appointment. If you can afford to go even once a year, it'll likely save you a lot of money later.

[@ischristinaok]

As a cat owner i can honestly see why some people aren’t fond of cats. I love my cat but i get it. My cat tends to make a lot of eye contact if you’re a stranger and it can be creepy. Cats are weird like they scratch sometimes, stare, jump on things, and are skittish at times. Like my cat is really friendly and he warms up to people and he likes to play with people by nibbling on their toes. Which i’m used to but i can see why others find that annoying.

[@feridyke]

In the US, if you can't afford dental care, you just don't get it. It doesn't matter how bad it is. You can literally die of a tooth infection because you have to pay for care. Lots of dentists actually require payment up front for services because of people getting services done and then not paying. Even if you go to an emergency room because you've got an infection, that isn't necessarily paid for if you don't have insurance (or in some cases if you do have insurance). If you have to go to the ER you are relying on applying to the hospital for Charity Care after the fact. But that won't actually address the underlying tooth issue, all they'll do is give you antibiotics or whatever you need to stabilize and then tell you to follow up with a dentist. On an extraordinarily limited basis you can sometimes get free dental care at a dental school. But it's incredibly hard to get. My mom almost died from having bad teeth. We were lucky that someone in the family with money was able to pay for her to get the dental work she needed. I've known people who have gotten infection after infection, who have lived with bad teeth for years because they couldn't afford to fix them. People just living with constant pain in their mouth. It is completely bonkers that we have decided that teeth are the optional bones. There should absolutely be public dental care. Even if you're on state health insurance for low income it doesn't cover dental care except for having a tooth pulled in an emergency. Millions of people on Medicaid have no real dental coverage, and the sad reality is that they just live without dental care, even if that means that they're in constant pain.

[@borealernadelwald]

On the topic of dentists. I have a minor fear of dentists (combined with social anxiety & other mental health problems that make things worse) and I haven't been to a dentist in 5+ years (and before that I was once after another so and so many years). I'm 35 btw. A year or two ago one of my teeth suddenly hurt like hell for 1-2 weeks and then stopped - some time after that a filling fell out of that tooth and occasionally pieces just broke off. I only have around 1/3 of a (presumably dead) tooth there now. On the other side I have two teeth that had root canal treatment done and only a temporary crowns. I never went for the proper ones, because of the cost & anxiety, especially since I was more and more embarrassed about taking so long to go back and, as my issues progressed with pieces of those two teeth breaking off as well, the state of my teeth in general. 1 1/2 weeks ago pretty much the entire top of my one root canal treatment tooth broke off, leaving only the filled in roots (I suspected that would happen at some point). And I finally managed to make an appointment with a (different) dentist.. but there were problems with my health insurance card and they sent me away to get proof of my insurance first.. now I suspect there are some bigger issues with my health insurance, but because of my anxiety I really struggle calling them. So yeah.. I definitely understand the fear and I wish I had someone that could help me with all this. Though more generally speaking - here (Germany) there are a lot of dentist advertising that they are great with "Angstpatienten" (= fear patients), because that is such a common thing.

[@AstronomicalJelly]

to me what's even more of a "red flag" than people who don't like cats are people who only like cats that are "behaved", as in always lets you touch it, never makes a fuss etc. if you only like things that follow your will and doesn't have its own agency that goes against ur wishes idk what to say

[@fenixfalling5038]

I feel like if you don't like cats, then you don't like independent beings, and if you can't understand that cats aren't all the same and categorize them all as mean means you have a problem with overgeneralization

[@Invisiblegirl109]

TW: CSA (no details), brief mentions of flashbacks, panic attacks, and seizures For the first story: I was SA’d repeatedly starting when I was three and even though I had severe amnesia and compartmentalization for most of my life (I do not have DID or OSDD) I have panic attacks and flashbacks and sometimes even non epileptic seizures when I go to any doctors appointment because I hate being touched, it makes me feel gross. This is especially bad at the dentist, I struggle to eat because I hate feeling things in my mouth so you can only imagine how hard it is to go to the dentist where people shove things in my mouth and I have absolutely no control over it. My current dentist is amazing and she will literally put my hand on her body (not in a weird way) so I can tap if I’m getting too triggered but I still struggle to go. My wife forces me to go every six months and will sit with me and hold my hand for the whole time. So he needs to be kind, even if they’re married he has no idea what trauma she might have.

[@danellephillips9969]

ALSO TO ADD IN THE US: Legally hospitals (I’m unsure about dentistry) but at least in the medical system you have the “ right” to be seen - like Shaba said- you’re going to be seen and taken care of (unless you have a signed DNR or something) But they WILL send you a bill. That will not be payable at all. That will then go to a collections agency that goes against credit therefore it’s very difficult to get loans for anything (auto home etc) So most people have financial ruin because of a medical emergency

[@draechaeli]

9:40 I had been unable to go to the dentist for a few years. When I found a good dentist that I could afford I had 19 cavities! My teeth are prone to cavities but I’ve never had pain from a cavity. So this woman might not either.

[@fralanasko2900]

Hatred of animals is legitimately a marker of sociopathy/ psychopathy

[@rat.pit.art.]

Hi, person with ASPD here, hating animals is not a symptom of "sociopathy"(Which is an outdated term and is extremely offensive), many people with ASPD tend to actually love animals because they find them more comforting than people, who judge and have actual emotions, and often feel like they're very similar to animals so they feel more empathy toward them. I don't like animals because of the trauma that created my ASPD, I can't stand animals because they are "useless" and thus i can't stand them. They can't do anything for themselves, they are totally dependent on others for their survival which to me makes them "useless", this is caused by my own childhood trauma being called "useless" for not being able to make my own school lunches or being unable to bathe myself, etc. On the other hand, hatred of animals and animal abuse IS a marker of Psychopathy, which is different to ASPD/Sociopathy.

[@mysticmoone7659]

In the USA, if you are below a certain household income, you can apply for Medicaid (Medi-Cal in California) - this income amount depends on if you are married and have kids. But the amount depends on the state and often falls below the poverty line. Hospitals can not refuse to treat someone in an emergency, but you will end up stuck with a bill if you do not have insurance of some kind, whether Medicaid/Medi-Cal or private. And the government insurance has dental and vision, but how much it covers varies from state to state. So, for example, in one state the dental insurance may cover tooth extractions but not root canals. In a different state, you may only have a small selection of frames you can choose from for your glasses. You also will only be able to see doctors who accept your insurance.

[@rebeccajesse4604]

Raising biological children: totally NTA. Also though, what is their definition of “being involved”? Because we cannot forget legal responsibilities and consequences. Do they mean that she shouldn’t have them adopt the child? Because adoption is a legal thing that dissolves her rights as a parent. So if she still has rights as a parent that would mean that both dads would not. And it adds an extra layer of complexity for the child. When I was a teen I wanted to travel abroad and it almost didn’t happen because my biological dad didn’t want me in that country and wouldn’t sign the papers. It didn’t matter that I hadn’t seen him in years or that he isn’t a part of my life. He had that power because he was my biological parent with legal rights. OP doesn’t “not care” about their child because in their mind it’s not her child, it’s her friends child. She is just helping it happen. That would also take the rights away from one of the other parents. Legally speaking (as far as I know) a child cannot have 3 parents. So that means that if the kid is injured and the dad without legal custody is the only one available, he can get into hot water for making medical decisions.

[@eatsleepdie1682]

Ah I also used to hate cats based on an old experience.. A decade and bit later, we have multiple cats and a second generation of kittens. I am playing with one as I'm writing this..

[@forgetsin]

First story when you were asking what you do when you have a dental or medical issue and have no health care. As someone with a disability and my wife and I living off one persons income with not insurance... We don't go in. OR if it is bad enough to where we get infections in the teeth where it is visible, like a huge abscess, we go to the emergency room. Because they can not deny treatment. Then we have a huge bill coming our way. But we literally have no other way when everywhere expects you to pay upfront and refuse to do payment plans.

[@nergregga]

It's so frustrating that dental care isn't free in many countries, even ones that provide free healthcare in other areas. Dental health is so important for overall health, a lot of tax money could be saved by providing dental care

[@teamresources]

No, there is no emergency fund for dental care in the US. And it’s soooooo expensive. In this case, teeth end up being pulled, because it’s the least invasive solution. And the surgery bills are outrageous.

[@Rakeruchan]

Hello Shaaba and Jamie! Thank you for another awesome episode =D. One of the reason tooth decay can be deadly is that is you get an infection in your mouth it's REALLY close to your brain and as it can spread it can be incredibly dangerous when it causes brain abscesses, as well as other issues like sepsis, blood clots and endocarditis (infection of the inner lining of the heart). Thankfully it's VERY rare that a dental infection causes death these days thanks to medical advancement! A big step up from when 10% to 40% of tooth infections lead to death.

[@mossman15]

I know so many people who IMMEDIATELY say they won't help with a baby as soon as they find out someone is pregnant. It makes me so angry every time. It usually comes from childless friends or grandparents who think their kids are too young to have kids. Young parents hear all the time that they won't receive help unfortunately.

[@gloriaash7511]

Omg. My husband had a situation with dental health when we were newly in a serious relationship. The breath was…. Not good. But I NEVER said or did anything in public. Most I did was get out mints or gum and take one and say directly to him “Have a mint, love.” As though it was just a thing I was wanting and wanted to share. We have worked through the issue. Dental care is insanely expensive in the US. It’s terrible. We have dental insurance through his work now but it’s still hella expensive. We needed to take out a specialized credit card to cover it. Also, just healthcare in general. We have insurance but I do have ongoing issues and owe a ton. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@OldNewsIsGoodNews]

In the first one, I can see the "yeesh, stop with the over-the-top descriptions" bit (though at the same time, I can understand the spouse venting if they're at their wit's end after a year of dealing with the issue), but I would not say they're an AH for having an in-the-moment reaction when they were in that line. Like, do we all always have compete control over our in-the-moment, knee-jerk reactions? Goodness knows, I've made faces completely by accident when I wasn't even actually reacting to anything or was just reacting to a random thought I had, nothing related to anybody around me. And having an in-the-moment uncontrolled reaction to a sudden, unexpected stimulus (whether that's a loud noise or a sudden strong smell -- just because they knew their spouse had bad breath doesn't mean the smell can't be sudden and overpowering in the moment) is pretty normal, can absolutely include a small jump or step back, and is not necessarily intentional. Def something to say "sorry, I didn't mean to" about later, but it sounds like they did exactly that. (And it really is super concerning that the other person has breath _that_ bad even with regular brushing.)

[@KacielNolwen]

I know someone who has a sibling who had a child in a situation much like the story in this video, the family was not at all pleased either and even tried to make her see how bad of an idea it was. When she decided to keep said child the parents were supportive, the siblings less so, smash cut to now, 8 years later; aby daddy is out of the picture except for visits on birthdays and xmas, parents are full time supporting baby mama and this is causing a silly amount of stress to all involved. All that to say sometimes the family's reaction is completely reasonable in those situation. They know the future mama and what she can handle and sometimes a baby ain't it.

[@malloryknox1637]

In the us if you REALLY can't afford dental u have two options 1) ignore it 2) go to a " free clinic" they will only pull teeth nothing else * often you must travel a long distance to reach such places and they have months to years long wait lists*

[@PlumberryPuppet]

At the end of the bad breath story, Jamie says that the commenters weren't necessarily calling OP's wife an AH, just that the OP was NTA. But they were calling OP's wife the AH (probably for not going to the dentist), because otherwise the judgment would be NAH (instead of NTA).

[@ladyspyre]

In the U.S., dental insurance is separate and you have to either buy it privately or get it through your work. The state medicaid for low income families may or may not cover dental for children, but most don't cover dental for adults at ALL. Then on top of that, not all insurance covers all types of work, and they cover different percentages depending on the specific procedures. And the billing doesn't work the same way it does for a regular medical emergency. You can't easily have emergency work done and just set up a payment plan when the bills come in. Most offices make you pay at the time of the procedure. If you can't pay in full, you have to get pre-approved for a line of credit, which means a credit check and all that. Some will let you put down a down payment (at least half the cost up front)and then sign a contract to pay it off within 60 days. I had an incompetent root canal that was horrific to go through, and ended up putting up with the pain of a tooth infection for years because of both money and trauma. Then it broke and had to be pulled. Luckily at that time I had dental insurance and my partner has good credit, so we were able to afford the $2000 procedure---for ONE tooth. I was able to afford an implant. But I know a lot of people that can't afford an implant. My partner actually has a gap right now from a tooth he had to have pulled during the pandemic (when I'd lost my job and with it our dental). I know several people that had to have most or all of their teeth pulled without being able to afford replacement or even dentures. It's extremely unhealthy, and can lead to even worse health problems, but a lot of people put up with the pain and their own rot just so they can still chew their food. There are lots of factors that can lead to bad teeth, from poor water supply to health problems to bad habits to especially acidic saliva to hyperemesis during pregnancy. Infections and smoking are often the biggest contributors to poopy breath, and it really is rank and hard not to react to. But the overall tone and language of that person's post about their WIFE makes it feel like they are also the drama. Talk about that in private, and lock it down in public. It sort of has the optics of signaling to OTHER people that "yes i know she's stinky and don't approve." I think the wife's feelings about the OP's reaction are valid, but it's hard to say whether she is also the drama for not accepting that her breath is bad. Some people refuse to believe you because they can't taste/smell it themselves or just because they're embarrassed and double down.

[@Llama100]

I dunno if u guys are gunna see this but I’m watching this while going through a massive breakup and u guys are the one thing making me smile right now so thank you xx

[@RowanArk]

Wishing you the best, I hope you're doing alright

[@alloragamer]

As someone who is allergic to cats.... some people may have a pretty fair reason for disliking cats and just choose not to tell you.😅 Had too many cases where i said "i don't like cats and don't want to be around them" and people thought i was a heartless monster when in reality, i just didn't want to go into anaphylactic shock and die. Please remember that not all allergies are food or plant related, and people can be allergic to your pets too.

[@Olivia-zg5hj]

My grandma is terrified of birds because she grew up on a farm and had to collect the chickens eggs. They had a very mean rooster that would always chase her and attacked her a couple of times. My cousin is also scared of big dogs because one bit him on the face when he was little.

[@Dodrebur]

That dental one hit me so hard, and the discussion was also really difficult for me. It could always be financial problems AND trauma. Long story incoming. When I was 21, I had a wisdom tooth extracted. My mouth is quite small, and the hammering they did to break up the tooth was so rough I thought they were going to break my jaw. I don't respond well to pain medication and ended up in constant pain for the next 3 weeks (from my entire jaw, not the extraction site). Shortly after my stitches came out, another little chunk of tooth started showing in the same spot. Apparently, nobody noticed or saw fit to inform me that I had a second wisdom tooth there. The experience was so bad though that I decided to just live with it. I'm 30 now and have had many difficulties in getting and maintaining a job. I've been battling depression for years and have gone months without brushing my teeth on multiple occasions. Before the incident, I had over 13 fillings, and that errant wisdom tooth has made a massive crater in the back of my mouth. When it started to hurt, I stopped chewing on that side of my mouth, which has reduced the pain to a dull ache in that area which comes and goes. I know it's rotting. I need no reminders. I've wanted to get it fixed ever since the pain started years ago, but I was unemployed for a long time and only have a part-time job because of my depression. I've had to pay thousands of dollars for medical expenses during those years. I'm still paying hospital bills and haven't worked in months because my depression got worse (I have been receiving treatment for years and am working with my psychiatrist to modify my prescription). If the situation doesn't improve by September, I will literally have no money and be unable to make any payments on thousands of dollars of debt. There are options for 'cheaper' dental care. There are dental practices (and mental health clinics, and urgent care) which use sliding scale fees and/or in-house insurance for low income households without insurance. Even with that though, extracting an impacted wisdom tooth, along with whatever else needs fixing, could easily exceed a thousand dollars. I did my research and even called a few places for estimates. The lowest I found for just an extraction was about $600, not even including the initial dental visit required to get a referral for the oral surgeon. It's so easy for people to say, "Get off your a** and get it fixed" when they aren't the ones who have to live with the debt. I'll get it fixed when doing so won't risk forcing me to declare bankruptcy, thank you very much. It's so frustrating when you know what will make you healthier, but it's always out of reach. Every time I feel like I might be able to afford it and try to find the courage to go through another extraction, my financial safety net goes up in flames. The dull pain in my jaw pales in comparison to the pain of knowing I'm unable to do anything about it.

[@Aries-ku8uk]

As someone who was adopted from birth, who has known my entire life I was adopted, and who knows not a whole lot about my bios, I would like to say that I would still like to meet my bio mother at some point. I know it's unlikely to ever happen, and that makes me a little sorrowful. I've got a fantastic relationship with my parents and my family and this has nothing to do with anything on the part of my parents. It's just something I'd like to do.

[@MrFriend97]

about the dental story, bad breath could also be caused by tonsil stone or tonsilitus which can be super painfull besides making your breath stink. so its possible that could also be contributing to the stinky breath. outside of that, in the netherlands we also have privatized dental care but if you are low income, disabled and/or have such bad anxiaty and fear around the dentist you can go to a specialized dentist which reside in most hospitals. even with the lowest basic insurance, you will have those appointments covered if they are in the hospital. and my last point to maybe shed some light on is that yes you can die due to complications created byt tooth decay. i was hospitalized last year for 4 days because one of my wisdom teeth had gotten infected while still in my jaw and the infection had created an absess in my jawbone which was at risk of rupturing which could lead to sepsis and death. so be carefull if you have any swelling and pain around your jaw call your dentist do not wait or think its nothing. (also sorry if there are typo’s english is my second language)

[@gilesluver]

2nd- Also, getting engaged (putting a ring on it, imo), or at least sorting out what they are to one another, is rather important for family stability. If the SIL is bored, get a job or play with the dog. Kids are not toys.

[@Just_Reading_Comments]

In the US people without medical, and especially dental and vision, are just SOL. Most doctors and especially dentists will not see you if you don’t have insurance or pay in full upfront. Most will not bill you as many people will never pay those bills. Hospital emergency rooms do have to see you if you go to them BUT they will only stabilize you so you’re not in danger of immediate d*ath and send you away with a huge bill. I was in a really bad car accident where I hit the windshield at a high speed. I needed 40+ staples in my head as I nearly scalped myself. The hospital released me less than 12 hours after my accident with no one there to pick me up and I feel that was done because they knew I didn’t have insurance and wanted me out as soon as possible. They were calling me at 8am the very next morning demanding to know how I was going to pay my bill. They also missed the fact that I had broken my nose and a bone in my face which I never did get fixed. When it was time to have my staples removed from my head the emergency room refused to do it and said it wasn’t an “emergency”. After calling dozens of doctors in my area one finally let me come in to remove my staples without payment upfront (though this was 15 years ago). As far as dental I’ve went years without being able to go to the dentist because I didn’t have dental insurance or the money to pay to go. I was able to get 2 teeth removed at a dental school when I lived closer to a big city and while they’re cheaper you still have to pay upfront. Right now I know people whose teeth are crumbling and have lost pretty much all of their back teeth but don’t have insurance. I know people who when they end up with an infection in their teeth they have to ask friends if they have any leftover antibiotics they can give them as sometimes even the emergency room won’t give them out or give you a prescription (if you could even afford to get the prescription filled if they did). I’m my area even if you have insurance there are no dentists currently accepting new patients within an hours drive. If you do have a dentist you wait months to get an appointment and forget emergency care. It’s horrific what is happening and it’s happening all across the US.

[@rebeccahbare]

I work in an American ER and we get dental complaints all the time because when your income is low enough to qualify for free medical care through Medicaid (which is slightly different in every state), you still don’t get dental coverage unless you’re pregnant. A lot of dentists have medical care credit cards you can apply for but obviously this is NOT IDEAL. It doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me that dental and vision isn’t covered in general medical insurance….

[@BeholdenProductions]

Holy crap! The last OP is offering something so generous. Whether she’s just signing up to be an egg donour, or she’s actually offering to be a full-on surrogate, that is an incredibly selfless thing to do - it’s invasive and difficult on the body to go through egg harvesting and/or pregnancy… The dads’ families and friends should be so thankful their loved ones have OP in their lives, I just can’t fathom why they’d be so alienating. I 100% agree with the feedback here, and I also feel like in addition to a whole whack of gender bias and heteronormativity, many of them are projecting their own selfishness on the situation. It’s like they can’t imagine someone having the emotional maturity to be able to give of themselves in this way, that their own genetic actualization is so central they just can’t see that actually OP removing herself from the parenting (but remaining present as “cool aunt”) is actually the right boundary to ensure the child is properly attached to their actual parents (the dads). For OP to try to be a third external parent would complicate matters significantly, and is actually such a beautiful and mature decision to fully gift the dads the full parenting experience. I think there’s also an unfair stigma around the idea that a child being “motherless” is somehow worse off, when that’s just not necessarily true, as long as a child has loving parents they can develop healthy attachment and great relationships. It sounds like this hypothetical “squish” has all the love they’d need from the immediate players, but OP and the dads do not have the support and love they deserve from their community, which makes me so sad. This just goes to show why chosen family is so important, OP and dads deserve better and hopefully those expressing these limited views can open up to the magic and potential of this beautiful prospective family journey.

[@bbo7002]

Yeah that's why I thought too! Like this particular scenario is one that I've seen before, even heard about second-hand for at least ten years! This doesn't sound strange or irresponsible at all, I was really surprised that the couple's families & their friends were taking issue with it??? Maybe they live in a very small or conservative community?? I've lived in a big city all my life, so I don't really get the, idk, nitty-gritty of living in a less urban environment tbh 😅

[@vibeslime]

I wouldn't ever date someone who doesn't like cats. Mostly because I want at least six of them.

[@lapatti]

Cats are like chips, you can't have just one

[@QueenOfTheZombieApocalypse]

I think I wouldn’t be able to date someone who doesn’t like any animal without a very good reason. Although now that I say that, I remember that my partner ‘hates’ pandas 😂

[@MakeshiftMelody]

As someone with dental anxiety. There have been a couple of times my partner has politely told me that my breath smells and asked me when I last brushed my teeth. But it was always discrete. We both knew I needed to book an appointment and was just stressed about it. The next time the dentist was brought up my partner and my friend were with me and they supported me in making the call before I could chicken out again. I feel like OP needed to have a proper discussion with their wife not just react in the way they were.

[@RileyMastersgeekychick2000]

Breath story: instead of say, filling a cavity or a root canal, they will just pull the tooth (which is WAYYYY cheaper) and then they will send you on your way and bill you. (Typically she could get about 5-8 teeth pulled for 2k, worste case)

[@gemaster14]

In regards to the last story and the friends who reacted with “It will confuse the child”, I find that argument so frustrating. I always understood way more as a child than the adults around me thought I did. Any confusion or stress I experienced as a child was when I was told something was one way and then I found out later that the thing was actually not that way at all. It took me extra long to learn and understand some things as an adult because people told me incorrect information all my childhood out of a desire to “not confuse me”.

[@maggpiprime954]

The two of you gave very, very sound advice on the egg donor story. Very compassionate (obvs). ❤

[@maedanger6487]

When I didn't have enough money for a root canal they just pulled the tooth 🤷‍♀️ $500 vs $1,500.* *I had dental "coverage" through my employer and a 40hr week full time professional office job requiring a degree. It was still way too expensive to fix my tooth properly, thanks economy! 😅🎉😂

[@emeraldqueen1994]

My cat, Smokey, LOVES EVERYONE if she’s not demanding cuddles immediately, something is wrong!! My mom spent $5,000 on ONE root canal and crown….

[@catherinepattersonmcelroy8336]

In the US, if you are below a certain income limit you can qualify for something called Medicaid. It is basically socialized, state issued healthcare. Each state handles it differently. I've been on it when I needed it years ago and it covered EVERYTHING. It was lovely! In my state, optical and dental are not included within Medicaid, unless you are a minor. If you need dental work as an adult the only thing that is covered is extractions. That's it. dental insurance is much lower in monthly cost than health insurance, but it covers very limited things usually. As for saying a cavity always hurts, my husband had a severe cavity (core of the tooth including top was gone) for 10+ years and it didn't bother him. Similarly to OP's wife, he didn't grow up going to the dentist.

[@Do1You1like1yogurt]

In regard to the first story - in Australia, we have public health but private dental. If something is really bad, you can go to the emergency room and they will fix it in the easiest/cheapest way possible (usually a tooth removal or a filling).

[@Raztiana]

My mother always says that pregnancies are 9 months long, so everyone can get used to the thought and be happy, when baby arrives. It sounds like a lot of people need a little time to get used to babies being on the way. Also, children are perfectly able to understand "this is our friend, and they helped us make you", It's as simple as "we went to the other end of the world to pick you up, and although we didn't make you, we are your parents and we love you".

[@hexonyou]

if it makes you feel any better Shaaba my partner also had a healthy... not necessarily fear altogether, but definitely dislike for the dentist. After years of not having insurance for it we finally had dental insurance through my job and we as a family went through the daunting first steps of getting our kiddo and my partner caught up on dental care.... needless to say we maxed out coverage after the first month, but everyone has fillings and cleanings done. I go with my partner every visit as a hand to hold and to advocate for them while they have someone's hands in their mouth, same with our son.

[@hexonyou]

also: dental care is scary because it's treated as a luxury health care (in the US) when it's literally in your head, by your brain, such an easy way for infection to become so much more serious. Yes money is an issue for us, but I just had to bite the bullet and choose a dentist that would have payment plan options. Luckily we didn't end up having to use any long term payment, but it would've been worth it to know that my family's teeth are healthy/they are healthy. (I do not know where OP is from or what care $$ is like there, but I can assure you unless it's tax rebate season I never have $2k saved aside)

[@sharonmartin2356]

1) I wrote about this in my thesis (disease trends throughout time and predicted future trends). Dental care is essential health care due to the high mortality rate historically. Caries (cavities) are caused by bacteria attacking dental structures, when the caries progress to a point, it create a straightforward transmission route for bacteria to the bloodstream. Prior to the invention of broad-spectrum antibiotics and universal health care (UK), it was common for individuals to have all of their teeth removed as preventive treatment. My grandmother had this done as 21st birthday present (in 1946). OK so the point.. my research showed the rate of tooth loss in the US was going up whereas most places with universal health care it was going down (unsurprisingly). But it is really important to go to the dentist and the partner of the wife needs more tact and look for another solution, cos actually there are serious repercussions to this. YTA

[@meldanesetrilova7052]

Dentist one: I get having an issue with OP’s tone, but it reads to me that it’s coming from over a year (or how long) of frustration, and could well have been addressed much more kindly in the beginning.

[@TiffieWiffy]

Dental insurance in the U.S. is one step above useless. Most will fully cover cleanings once or twice a year and after that, it is basically a fancy coupon. You still pay co-pays for each procedure and once you hit the max benefit, it’s done. Anything above that is 100% out of pocket. Needing multiple Fillings, Root canals, crowns, etc. are enough to put you in substantial debt. My teeth grew in with cavities and I have severe past dental trauma, so I avoid going to the dentist until I’m in excruciating pain. I have lived with gaping holes in my teeth for more than a year a couple of times because it wasn’t causing pain and I couldn’t afford to have it filled. Anytime I go to the dentist, they tell me I need $10k+ of work done. Which makes me not even want to do the cleanings, which just compounds the issues. Without insurance, you’re just paying out of pocket for all of it. As bad as healthcare is here, dental care is somehow worse 😞

[@trombonedalek]

I haven’t gone to the dentist in at least three years. I know I have at least one cavity and at least one chipped tooth. It is too expensive. I’ve been working multiple part time jobs so I have relied on the healthcare marketplace. Dental insurance is separate from health insurance. Due to major gag reflex and anxiety I have to sedated and insurance won’t cover that so it didn’t make sense to pay extra money to cover dental when the main cost of the sedation wouldn’t be covered. It was over $1000 last time for sedation alone.