Shang-Chi's Wenwu is the Best Marvel Villain

[@nopicks1]

Tony Leung's acting with his eyes is so kickass! Especially the first time he gets his ass kicked and thrown into the water. The sigh when he realizes he's met his match and she's beautiful!

[@darksteal568]

He was like "Finally a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!"

[@JeusAlprime108]

For most chinese at this point, it is not even surprise to see Tony Leung outshined everyone else in the same set. He is equivalent to Leonardo DiCaprio status in the asia market for decades. So what so surprised about that, westerner?

[@unknow11321]

It's Tony Leung, that was prob just a regular Tuesday for his acting

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

He is the movies real main character to me. He and Awafina made the movie.

[@gsagabaen]

I also liked the scene when Shang-Chi, Xialing and Katy were brought to the Ten Rings compound. You could see the pride and happiness in Wenwu's eyes when he told his men that his son was home. Ahhhh, Tony Leung, I'm falling in love with this man. You should watch a video in KZbin on how Tony act with his eyes. It's very insightful.

[@IcyDiamond]

I honestly like how they didn’t make him some generic evil organization boss and he had a great character arc!

[@sullivandmitry1416]

Except he was an evil organization boss, sure we got a little bit more from him but overall he was still a big bad boss with wife issues.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@sullivandmitry1416 Yeah I get your point

[@aedanmannion]

Hmm ya don’t say?!

[@agiammarco94]

@@sullivandmitry1416 Still better than the other secret evil organization boss we saw with Black Widow

[@sonamtashi7706]

I like the fact that even during his evil conquering days he was content with his own hidden little empire. He wasn’t arrogant like Killmonger or any other conquest driven villains to think he could take on the whole world. He’s stayed under the radar this whole time & only surfaced big to resurrect his wife.

[@st4ne4rmthevill63]

I was very happy when it turned out he wasn't just evil for the sake of evil & actually wanted his children to help rescue his wife. It was refreshing to have a dad that, even though he was evil & harsh, loved his wife & cared for his children. He clearly loved his wife more but hey, better then Malekeith or the dude from Doctor Strange lol

[@NandovMovies]

Exactly

[@Architect_Art_Vandelay]

Apparently in the comic released for the Dr. Strange villain, he has a similar background. His wife or family died and he wanted to fix it through having eternal life, which led him to dormammu. Unfortunately, they didn't portray that in the movie at all.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@Architect_Art_Vandelay That honestly sounds pretty interesting

[@AllWIllFall2Me]

​@@Architect_Art_Vandelay As a small correction: they don't give it enough ROOM in Doctor Strange. They do straight up tell us in the movie that he came to Kamar-Taj having lost everyone he'd ever loved, and then he spends the rest of the film talking about how he wants to move the world beyond death. They just only mention the REASON one time, and we never get to see him reflect on his lost family all that much.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

@@NandovMovies are you gonna do a Mandarin is not Mandarin vid, it because MCU Mandarin is really a combination of the Mandarin and Fu Manchu (who in the Comics is Shang Chi's Dad but the Studio either/both didn't have the rights or/and Fu Manchu's problematic nature though you can argue some of that also applies to Mandarin.)

[@TheSiemek]

Wenwu is a person. Immortal, virtually unbeatable, but still a person. I refuse to believe they could cast a better man for the job than Mr. Tony Leung.

[@albumkosong]

Not just a person but a father and griefing husband

[@theoph1932]

they couldn't because Tony Leung didn't just play Wenwu, he worked closely with Feige and Cretton to re-invented the character of Wenwu. And his acting level is just perfection.

[@nuffsaid4987]

@@theoph1932 plus they've given tony the creative freedom on how he's going to portray a character

[@rhetiq9989]

Best thing about Wenwu is that he believes that family and love is his true way out of a life full of violence. He was a bad guy who was already on his way towards redemption RIGHT OFF THE BAT, unlike most other stories where redemption comes in the end. It’s a very human motive overall and his succumbing to his lost cause was such a sad thing to watch. It’s like he was destined for this life despite his wanting to reform. Such a tragic grounded villain overall

[@SurgeryIsWoke]

I need a Mandarin solo movie starring Tony Leung. They got thousands of years that they can play with and explore that character.

[@atiksafari8582]

Yeah..me too..tony leung is the best

[@shiroshira8905]

He doesn't look like he's already 59.

[@silveriver9]

Exactly. Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar for his performance.

[@SuperOmnicronsj44]

Gonna need Iron Man to balance that out, though.

[@brunopereira6789]

Yes! I'd love to watch a film or a show where he discovers the Ten Rings themselves!

[@pathora44]

No wonder a number of the fights in Shang-Chi felt like I was watching an old school Jackie Chan martial arts movie. The fight in the bus and the fight in the scaffolding had the energy and crazy combat of Jackie Chan in his hey day. People from Jackie Chan's old stunt team worked on this movie and it really shows.

[@NandovMovies]

so much excellent action

[@Endru85x]

Just seeing Shang Chi using enviroment and enemy,s clothes gave me Jackie Chan vibes. Way to go Marvel, creators of MK 2021 should be ashamed with their uninspired choreography and awful editing.

[@KRYMauL]

@@Endru85x I was really hoping for some Wu Sha inspired choreography from MK, but instead they made the fight scenes more in line with Samurai films.

[@peterkhew7414]

There's also the Hong Kong gangster movies where Wenwu is basically a triad boss.

[@lucarioknightb7685]

So surprised I ever found myself thinking “get the magic and the dragons outta here, go back to the PUNCHING”

[@jamesphung]

Funny thing was that Tony Leung said in an interview that he accepted the role only knowing that he would be the villain, assuming he gets to be an evil villain. He was surprised (maybe even a little disappointed) to see after reading the script that his villain was not really evil at all. That still didn't stop him from giving a great performance.

[@SoraRaida]

Was it that interview with Dodo Cheng? I love that interview

[@lolitabubbles26]

I mean... he was cool with imperialism, mass genocide, and all the events of WWII apparently. So yeah, not really evil at all lol.

[@billcipher3946]

@@lolitabubbles26 But he’s not Japanese though

[@adriannelcy710]

There are so many simple pure evil villain in previous marvel movies that maybe the reason he had this assumption. I believe that if wenwu is a pure evil villain tony still can make the character complex.

[@PittsburghSonido]

Shang Chi has made me extremely hyped for future installments and add interest to the later phases of the MCU. I was worried the hype would die down after EndGame. Nope. Shang Chi was a banger and everyone knows it.

[@donniejefferson9554]

I'm still just super hyped for black knight. He's probably my favorite marvel character so I'm really hoping they do him justice in the upcoming movies

[@lisa-sk5bt]

Fantastic movie. 10/10

[@stevest8675]

Great movie

[@KRYMauL]

Really all it did for me is make me want more Wu Sha movies like "Hero" and "House of Flying Daggers" maybe even a full blown monkey movie like Dark Myth Wukong.

[@topgig]

Yes, awesome movie indeed

[@catherinetong4472]

Can i just say Fala Chen played the mom so well. I absolutely loved her as the wife of Wenwu. Their first meeting was absolutely beautiful.

[@topgig]

She was great, and her first meeting scene with Wenwu was one of the movie's best moments.

[@terryqiu17]

The name Wenwu is actually a spoiler to the character. In old Chinese times there were different types of emperors, “wen” emperors which were suppose to rule through knowledge and politics, and there were “Wu” kings, which are warring kings. So to be both wen and wu kind of tells that the character wasn’t just going to be this warring conquerer, but he was going to have some knowledge and smarts as well.

[@rhitmakemala]

This is the first time i read this!! That's a very fitting name for his character. Thanks for the info!

[@cwchee86]

yup thus the phase 文武双全. Wen Wu Shuang Quang aka excellence in both knowledge and wushu

[@81i2b49cj]

nice. thanks for sharing

[@Anand_Ilangovan]

Great info!!!

[@public_cooper]

100% agree, and I love the scene where they make fun of the name “Mandarin” especially

[@NandovMovies]

That's be my reaction if someone named me after an orange. 🍊

[@vassily-labroslabrakos2263]

@@NandovMovies well the fruit was named after the title. But it also makes sense in a different way that he's offended by the title. He is Not a courtier/beraucrat. (cause that's what mandarins were).

[@public_cooper]

@@NandovMovies imagine an American villain called “The Burger” after typing that I realized I used a bad example and that would be a great villain name

[@jlev1028]

@@NandovMovies I think more people associate the word "Mandarin" with China's official dialect rather than the orange variety.

[@ligmaemperor7064]

@@public_cooper maybe the father of a Brock Lesnar-esque superhero?

[@DeadmanInc336]

Tony Leung was phenomenal in this role. It's just a shame that we will never see him share the screen with Robert Downey Jr as proper arch-enemies. Imagine Tony trying to keep up and defend against Wen Wu/The Mandarin's ten rings abilities.

[@jeonhaerimfan7002]

There might be. Wait for 2nd season of What If

[@AboodFoolad]

@@jeonhaerimfan7002 he said RDJ which even in Voice Acting isn't him.

[@alexisgobeil-bouchard5369]

I think this could have a lot of potential. This fight could be a reminder for Tony to not rely only on his suit especially against an opponent who is both mentally and physically skilled. Heck, it would be even more epic with Wen Wu defeating Tony in their first fight without using his rings and saying that while he acknowledges (even respects) the hero's intellect, he is upset that he is too dependent of his technology and has let his body grow weak.

[@DeadmanInc336]

@@alexisgobeil-bouchard5369 someone on Reddit pitched the idea of a 45 minute animated short done in What If's animation style that brings Tony face to face with Wen Wu. Their idea is that a couple months after Tony returns to Earth after just barely surviving Thanos and almost starving to death in space, Tony is obsessed with trying to reverse the Snap. He then hears rumors of Makluan technology somewhere in the provinces of China. Thinking this could be a way to bring everyone back and reversing what Thanos did, Tony investigates. This once again puts him face to face against the Ten Rings. Except this time, he faces off against their TRUE leader; Wen Wu. Wen Wu and most of his forces just so happened to fall into the side of the population that survived the randomness of the Snap. Tony barely survives the battle, leaves empty handed, and this is what forces him to really hang it up and stop being Iron Man for five years.

[@LSchelvin71]

@@DeadmanInc336 Multiverse

[@payko5262]

Counter-Nitpick: I took the omission of the Dragon as her trying not to rile up some conquering instinct in her husband. Whether she thought him evil or not, she knew he had a conquering spirit in him that would have drawn him back to the village. Maybe he would have wanted that power for himself, maybe he would have had the right reasons - as we see, it wouldn't have mattered. But we know that he would have wanted to go back and face it. By not telling him the village's true purpose, he could move on from it and focus on his new family. But that's just my perspective.

[@JuryRigged]

I missed part of the intro (I saw the forest and the flirty fight,) but I'd also suggest that she basically left that behind for family. There wouldn't have needed to be any reason to tell him any of that stuff, Wenwu packed up the rings and put them away... at least until she was killed.

[@rogerdrayer1503]

@@JuryRigged Eh. She told her kids stories about Ta Lo, no reason she wouldn't tell Wenwu any. Doesn't mean she'd tell him about the monster dragon they've got stored away, but she didn't leave it behind completely

[@TheSiemek]

Or maybe they both promised each other to leave the past behind. He won’t use the rings and won’t conquer anymore, while she has to leave her village and all of it’s problems.

[@haldalas]

Not a bad idea; maybe they should have brought that up at some point

[@TheMinniepink16]

Even more nitpicky, but how did wenwu know about the pendants fitting into the dragon built into their home/his global syndicate headquarters? If she really wanted to prevent his temptation for Ta Lo, I feel like that whole magical water map wouldn’t be so accessible to him, even if he did have to figure out how to get back through the pendants by himself?

[@wayothefro3249]

For me, the one problem I have with his arc is it felt like his time was cut short by the monster at the end of the movie as I would have preferred the final battle be against him, not some monster we had no connection to (although his death was done very well for what it was). Otherwise, Tony Leung killed it in the role and made his character so nice to watch as he stole the show in every scene he was in.

[@donniejefferson9554]

Although I wasn't a huge fan of the monster, I wouldn't really say it cut his arc short. It served as a pretty good conclusion. He accomplished his goal only to learn how wrong he had bee and dies as a punishment of his own actions while trying to protect his son. It serves as a pretty solid conclusion to his arc. I would've preferred to end the movie with a really cool martial arts fight but thematically his death at the hands of the monster he released works pretty well

[@rottenappple3716]

I’m okay with the monster but I do think that he should have had a moment of recognizing his son to be correct, before the dragon was released.

[@cricketben6742]

Exactly my thoughts. The cgi monster was super boring and really destroyed the potential for a better ending for wenwu. his sacrificial death seemed pretty lame and unnecessary for how strong and powerful he was built up to be.

[@lucaspoon4202]

Yeah. Totally agreed. It felt like it just got brushed aside to make way for big flying cgi kaiju battle. Literally didn't care one bit for the dragon fight. I mean it had cool moments, but there was no real reason for it. The father and son battle was way more interesting

[@bobjenko]

Imo his ending worked really well. Once he realised he had been tricked and his son would probably have a better chance of defeating the monster (as both a product of Ta Lo and thus its magic and his son who seems handy with the 10 rings) he gave up. His whole motivation was getting his wife back so their family could be complete again, but once he realised that wasn't going to happen, what does he have to live for? From what I could see, he almost looks at peace when he dies. That way he could at least be with his wife again. Could he have helped fight it? Possibly, but I don't think it was in his character to do that.

[@JYang0602]

Wen Wu is my favorite Marvel Villain. A Sympathetic villain done right because you get his motivations and want to root for him while not agreeing with his methods. Tony Leung is an amazing actor and I was rooting for him

[@IcyDiamond]

If the guy was actually saving his wife, I would’ve rooted for him!

[@milkiassamuel780]

@@IcyDiamond It reminded me a lot of the motivation of Mr Freeze as both Wen Wu and Mr Freeze are three dimensional sympathetic characters who have truly understandable motivations with the sole intent of saving the people they love and would rather be happy than conquer and as such will go to the ends of the earth in order to do so.

[@IcyDiamond]

@@milkiassamuel780 Oh yeah, now that you say it I see the parallels

[@lisa-sk5bt]

My favorite marvel villain too

[@stevest8675]

Cool villain. Great movie

[@robertangus616]

I loved the Mandarin he is one of the most complex arch enemies in the MCU alongside Killmonger and this is another comparison between Shang-Chi and Black Panther but the point is that neither villain should return to life because while Killmonger demanded his death over punishment because he truly believed he was right, Mandarin's entire motivation was to be reunited with his wife and his arc was accepting the fact that she is dead so his death allows him to be reunited with her in a more peaceful way

[@hunnerdayEDT]

The sad part of Wenwu's arc is that he loves his wife so much that he hates his children because he irrationally believes they could have saved her from a gang of fighters.

[@dragoncat5767]

@@hunnerdayEDT his wife is everything to him, otherwise why would he leave his life of warlord But he did redeem himself of all his actions of 1000 years, because he gave his son the rings and if that monster wasn't killed he would have lured more people of their weakness

[@Bobomb70]

After Iron Man 3, I always just assumed that "the Mandarin" was like an urban legend like the Illuminati that Killian hijacked for his own purposes without realising that it wasn't an urban legend, and just resolved the continuity that way.

[@DeadmanInc336]

Imagine had we gotten Wen Wu earlier on in the MCU and him tangling with Tony Stark.

[@Bobomb70]

@@DeadmanInc336 I know....that's why I'm hoping they do another movie between Civil War and Infinity War where we get a proper Iron Man vs Mandarin bout.

[@DeadmanInc336]

@@Bobomb70 or maybe just a 45 minute animated short in the same animation style as What If?. Maybe one that takes place during the five months after Thanos was killed.

[@DeadmanInc336]

@@Bobomb70 someone on Reddit pitched the idea of a 45 minute animated short in which Tony hears a rumor about Makluan technology somewhere in China. Thinking this could be a lead to bringing everyone back from the Snap, Tony investigates. This leads him into a confrontation with Wenwu and the Ten Rings in which Tony just barely survives. He almost died fighting Thanos, he almost wasted away drifting away in space, and he just barely managed to get by the skin of his teeth fighting Wenwu. So these repeated near death experiences is what leads to Tony hanging it up for several months to start a family with Pepper.

[@drakenfist]

Yeah "Hail to the king" alludes to that actually with a assassin saying to Trevor that the real "mandarin" isn't happy that Killian has been steeling his name.

[@councilofautumn]

She absolutely would NOT have told Wenwu, a guy BANNED from entering her home, the ultimate secret about her home.

[@tamhuynh1905]

I think having Tony Leung play the Mandarin Wenwu is an amazing decision. He's a fantastic legendary actor from Hong Kong who has won numerous awards for his acting abilities and his portrayal of a cold, cunning yet emotional villain adds incredible depth to the movie.

[@mayaparamita2254]

he's very famous throughout Asia since the 80s too.

[@ThePawKingdom777]

Wenwu/Mandarin( Tony Leung) definitely need a solo origin movie/Disney series

[@IcyDiamond]

Spoilers for Eternals I believe that Phastos created the Ten Rings, and I have evidence to back it up

[@tysondennis1016]

@@IcyDiamond Give it

[@raptorkvn]

My head canon for why Wenwu didn't know about the Dweller is that Ying Li didn't talk about the Dweller because knowing about it might draw its attention to you. Kind of Cthulhu Mythos like, where knowing about the horrible thing trapped beyond space draws its eye and you don't want to draw its eye. And with a name like Dweller in Darkness applying some of that Mythos kind of logic makes sense to me.

[@KRYMauL]

I mean the comics "Dweller in Darkness" from what I understand is basically a Cthulhu clone with legs.

[@samkathryn4825]

That makes sense, too, because he was doing research about Ta Lo when he first heard the voice.

[@Hexsmasher2099]

The version of the Dweller-in-Darkness in Shang-Chi is one of a cosmic dragon

[@Sc-ky2ik]

My take on that is, Ying Li doesn't talk about it because she left that life to be with Wenwu. Wenwu took her away from that life after she bested him in combat. He really has no right to that information and she doesn't have to give it. It's a sacrifice that they both gave, him on Talo and her on Talo. So in that sense, they both don't talk about Talo. My gripe about Shang Chi is, if the Dweller in the Darkness was using the rings to call out to Wenwu. Why in the hundreds of years that Wenwu was using the rings did it not call out to him before. Though, I'll admit I may have missed that information. Second, if the rings are calling out to somebody (Galactus, Eternals, etc...) why weren't they called out when Wenwu was using them to conquer everything prior to Shang Chi? Again, I may have missed that point and need to rewatch Shang Chi when it comes out on D+. But that said, Shang Chi is definitely one of my favorite MCU movies.

[@syahrezadifachri5121]

@@Sc-ky2ik wenwu went looking for ta lo in the beginning of the movie, and got stopped by ying li. I don't remember why he was looking for ta lo in the beginning of the movie, but i'm certain he specifically looking for ta lo.

[@michaelnguyen3200]

There is a reason why he won many acting awards throughout his acting career including the biggest one in the world. He won the Best Actor award at the Cannes Film Festival in 2000 for In The Mood of Love.

[@nickasaro8789]

I love how they made him kind of somber and filled with regret with what he views as his only chance for happiness and peace taken from him. Really helped us empathize with him and gave his death a tragic side.

[@noahdaglio9362]

Imagine how badly Wenwu would’ve messed up anyone who got in his way if Ying-Li had been dusted when Thanos snapped instead of being killed by gang members

[@albumkosong]

"bring me Thanos!"

[@Hexsmasher2099]

Ying-Li

[@noahdaglio9362]

@@Hexsmasher2099 thanks

[@rhitmakemala]

I need a what if episode for that!!

[@meduimrareberries5888]

@@rhitmakemala Fingers Crossed for it in season 2!

[@tambulee]

His story and struggle made me cry tbh. Its like I wasn't watching a super hero movie but a family story and a guy driven by lost.

[@unrepentantoffender188]

"loss"

[@Chuck_EL]

Another favorite MCU villain of mine probably my favorite that gets underated is Baron Zemo , his family is killed indirectly by the avengers trying to stop Ultron and he also gets them to fight amongst each other and his impact is still felt up to the falcon and winter soldier My top 5 favorite MCU villains are.. 1. Baron Zemo 2. Wenwu 3. Thanos 4. Killmonger 5. Vulture

[@tambulee]

@@unrepentantoffender188 thanks 😊 it trips me all the time.

[@gsagabaen]

In light of Tony Leang's acting with his eyes, you should watch a video here in KZbin on how he got to develop this style of acting. It's very insightful.

[@dietman]

link?

[@gsagabaen]

@@dietman kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4bapId-fL5ng9U

[@Yuunarichu]

Accented Cinema?

[@gsagabaen]

@@Yuunarichu Yup

[@silveriver9]

Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar nomination for his performance.

[@LeedleLee457]

Marvel villains tend to have a "I want power and I'll die trying!!", but Wenwu was the only villain who was fighting to save his wife. When he realized it wasn't his wife, and that he was actually fooled by a demon, you can tell Wenwu lost the will to fight and live on. That's incredibly rare for Marvel; for a villain to be so emotionally drained that they lose the will to continue.

[@Chuck_EL]

The path of the tyrant's "fall into abyss" arc done perfectly

[@shinkuflame]

I hope this gets people to watch other Tony Leung movies. This man is a true actor! A legend!

[@JayneCJX]

I especially like "Infernal Affair"

[@mayaparamita2254]

i like his movie since the 80s heavenly sword and dragon sabre series.

[@natyinthehouse]

12:30 part of Wen Wu and Li’s relationship was that they could let go of the past with each other. It might be believable that she didn’t mention anything about her village or the gate that they were protecting. The kids find out that they have an aunt they didn’t know about.

[@silveriver9]

Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar nomination for his performance.

[@Devillionaire]

The whole ending part between Shang-Chi & Wen Wu is so breathtaking. Very little is said and it’s almost entirely visual storytelling. From Tony Leung’s legendary emotive eyes to how each martial arts sequence by Shang-Chi shows his character arc in consolidating the legacies of both his parents, without a single word ever needing to be said out loud about it. Even the finishing move Shang-Chi kills the Dweller in Darkness with is a callback to his father’s fiercest attack. Gorgeous, epic, and mesmerizing. Everything I love about movies.

[@Fitchy-ke3wz]

This film spoke to me. My mother passed in June so I FELT this film. The longing to see someone who you can't is so strong that if there was even a chance, I would take it. Another thing is that this film is kind of Destiny 2 Forsaken. Person driven by grief and longing tricked by a dragon into freeing it from a mysterious place. And I love Destiny! Additionally, I loved Wenwu. I could tell he was one of my favourites because the entire of act 1, I was waiting to see him show up again. 9/10. One of my top 10 marvel films!

[@biazacha]

I’m sorry for your loss

[@jeremyachristensen]

This movie and especially Wenwu REALLY hit me hard as a dad.

[@stevest8675]

Spectacular movie. 10/10

[@silveriver9]

Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar nomination for his performance.

[@lukang4544]

I was honestly on Wen Wu’s side until Shang met his aunt and she’s like “yeah that’s not your mom talking to him, it’s a demon!” . Ultimately Rather than sacrificing his child to obtain ultimate power; he sacrificed his very soul to empower and apologize to his son.

[@zoser595]

Is it just me or the Mandarin (or Wenwu) does work better as a Shang-Chi villain rather than an Iron Man villain? Forget about comic book history, THEMATICALLY speaking I don't see how a character like the Mandarin would've worked in any of the Iron Man movies. I'm kinda glad they didn't want to use him earlier, because if they did, Shang-Chi could have been a totally different movie.

[@ericstorm6582]

The Mandarin is still and always will be Iron Man's archenemy, Shang Chi has barely any connection to him in the comics

[@jahnybravo2168]

The only connection to the Mandarin Wenwu really has are the Ten Rings themselves. The majority of the stuff that defines Wenwu's character isn't anything like the Mandarin. So a Mandarin that Iron Man faced in a movie would've been completely different from Wenwu. And if he had been used, Shang-Chi still could've turned out exactly the same just without the Ten Rings, so there'd have to be a new mystical weapon he wields and the only thing that would be different is the fight choreography

[@biazacha]

Considering how big “daddy issues” is as part of Tony’s character arc I could see it working but without doubt Shang-Chi would end up as a very different movie.

[@duncanramsey9661]

I’d not heard of him before this film, I’m afraid, but Tony Leung elevated this film to a whole other level. Simu Liu was superb, no doubt, as were others. But for me, the way Tony chose to play Wenwu - a man with an all conquering desire for power, only to have that utterly diluted by meeting his future wife and falling in love, only to have her taken away, and to then channel that singular love to ‘save’ her with the same all conquering determination makes him a very dangerous character. Tonys emotional and restrained performance - physical and verbal, brings a dark realism and authenticity - believability - I’ve not personally seen before in the MCU. Wenwus death scene, showing the ultimate sacrifice of his immortality and sum lifetime quest for power, for his child, was a tear jerker, no doubt - through Tonys portrayal. Simply World class, knowing also that he didn’t prep [much] for this role, it seems - by his own admission! Well done, sir. Well played.

[@johnquiett1085]

I was a little disappointed that the Ten Rings weapon didn't do more. However your take isn't bad. It leaves room for the next villain to come in and tell Shang-Chi he's not using them to their dull potential.

[@mrm9570]

Definitely, they said the don't even know what they are or where their from in the movie so they can be explored more

[@rafliarya2742]

Yess aside from thor mjolnir and stormbreaker, ten rings is my favorite too

[@Skeletor-ku6jq]

I’m so glad you pointed out Zheng!!! I also have an idea for a Shang-Chi sequel. So my idea is that the “beacon” in the first is going to Fin Fang Foom for Shang-Chi And The Year Of The Dragon. In comics, Foom actually created the rings so instead of a Kaiju monster, I’d want him to be a sentient master,ind who also happens to be a dragon. His design would basically be Shendu from Jackie Chan Adventures but with wings. He’d be the big boss but his emissary would be Zheng Zu who wouldn’t be Shang’s father but still his nemesis. You could even say that the Five Weapons Society is at war the the rings and Xialing could turn to Shang for help against him while Foom rises to power behind the scenes. Since we can’t repeat what Wenwu did, I’d cut out the immortal stuff and obviously the father stuff for Zu and but still make him the emperor of K’un-Lun. He’d be the Shang Tsung to Foom’s Shao Kahn. The agents of Atlas would also get involved to research Foom’s arrival on earth and eventually help Shang dismantle The Five Weapons Society. There’d also be a big tournament like Mortal Kombat in the form of the 13 Chambers in an attempt to defeat Zu while he secretly operates in the shadows with Foom who he has made a deal with. Also the comic way Shang kills Wu would be so satisfying visually: “After defeating his opponents, Shang-Chi walked through the doors to the 13th Chamber alone and met the Emperor. The Emperor chastised Shang for not completing his task of assassinating all the great masters. Shang stood defiantly, fighting back blow-for-blow. Emperor Zu taunted Shang, reminding him that he’d taught Shang nine on the ten styles of the Ten Rings School. He never taught Shang the 10th style, the “Spectral Touch”. He used this style afterwards, going for the killing blow, but Shang used the technique that Kitty was trapped in. Though she was stuck in her ghost form, Shang had mastered it and he could shift between solid and intangible form at will. In this form, Emperor Zu couldn't harm him. Shang-Chi then used all the Ring Techniques that he knew against the Emperor. The Mortal Blade, the Nightbringer, the Zero Touch, the Flaming Fist, the Shocking Palm, the Long Breath, the Daemon’s Eye, Remaker’s Gift, and the Lost Hope; he used all of these to bring Emperor Zu to his knees. Shang demanded that the Emperor should yield, but he refused. He made to attack his son, but Shang channeled his energy and touched Zheng’s forehead, calling upon a technique that he had recently invented; the Gorgon’s Touch. The final moments of Emperor Zu were lived in a mixture of shock and terror as he turned into stone. With the battle over, Shang-Chi went out to the welcoming citizens of K’un-Lun.” This would be a big deal and also tease Iron Fist. Great video!

[@KRYMauL]

The Great protector was Fing Fang Foom, dude. Marvel really wanted the movie to do well in China, but the creators were more influenced by Hong Kong Kung Fu movies.

[@wayneshobbygallery]

@@KRYMauL No. Fin Fang Foom & The Great Protector r two different dragon characters, somewhat like polar opposites

[@KRYMauL]

@@wayneshobbygallery There isn’t a Great Protector in 616, and there was entire scene about how the Mandarin is an orange why would Fin Fang Foom be a real thing.

[@wayneshobbygallery]

@@KRYMauL I know that

[@KRYMauL]

@@wayneshobbygallery So, why do you think the same studio that spent an entire scene apologizing China with a literal Fu Man Chu and Mandarin amalgam would make a character call "Fin Fang Foom." This is all you're getting because Disney likes money and China has the money.

[@tender0828]

I love how after witnessing his father die a horrific death, my guy Shang Chi really went ok and told everything that happened in Ta Lo to their friends like it was a kickass DND session they had the weekend before.

[@rryase]

I liked parts like this the LEAST in the film. Totally took me out of it ☹ and made me feel like I was watching a typical asian american experience movie.

[@JosephDutra]

He expresses so much in the film without saying a word at times! I really hope he gets some award consideration for this film!

[@gentlemansoup]

YESSS! I LOVE THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGED HOW AMAZING THE TEN RINGS ARE

[@dylan9382]

I love Wenwu but I wish we got to know how he got the rings and why he became a conquer. Also I kinda wish that they didn't kill him off

[@ThisFaceWasMadeForRADIO]

Same.

[@EdricHsu]

I hope that paves the way for a Xu Wen Wu origin movie, if only to have the great Tony Leung back!

[@mayaparamita2254]

I think what wenwu said about his wife is inside the cage is true. That cage maybe a portal to another universe or something. If Wanda can hear her kids and find them alive, so is wenwu and wenwu's wife.

[@superthorc6894]

It’s help when you have the legendary Tony Leung

[@jjktng]

Tony Leung is a great great pick

[@LalaCoquette]

I love how they told his arc, and especially how upon seeing that the demon was truly behind the portal, and not his wife, he stepped in to save his son. He could've fought against the monster, but he felt life wasn't worth living knowing his wife was truly gone. All these years, he turned to the possiblity of avenging his wife for solace, and after Shang Chi killed the people who murdered his wife and left the family, Wenwu found solace in unlocking the secrets of Ta Lo so he can free his wife. 😢 He looked as if he had no will left to live, knowing his wife was truly gone, and just passed the Ten Rings to Shang Chi.

[@mandeepkumarray9050]

That dance kung fu was so romantic.

[@mayaparamita2254]

there is no dance kungfu. Wenwu's wife and wenwu's wife's sister's Chinese martial art style is called Tai Chi. Wenwu's chinese martial art style is called Wing Chun, the same used by Donny Yen in Ip Man. This thing is also explained in one of New Rockstar video explaining about Shang Chi.

[@mandeepkumarray9050]

@@mayaparamita2254 sorry I don't know much about kung fu . I respect that the creators put some great elements into this movie.i didn't watch the full new Rockstars video

[@Heungminlison]

In east/south-east asian cinema, a lot of fight scene is use to tell emotion of the fighters. That's why the fight scene between Wenwu and Li feels so romantic

[@mandeepkumarray9050]

@@Heungminlison I liked it , may be one day I get to do that.

[@peepopoof]

even though he was so toxic to his kids, tony leung made me sympathise with wenwu bc of how believable his acting was

[@antonissa8345]

I added him to my list of favorite villains as soon as the movie ended. I loved seeing him fall in love, I understood why he did what he did, and it was heartbreaking to see how much he missed his love.

[@user-qw9fq9vb5c]

Just curious, who are your other favorite villains?

[@antonissa8345]

@@user-qw9fq9vb5c Loki, Baron Zemo, Vulture, Hela, Killmonger, Thanos, Mysterio, Mandarin.

[@WaterMeLoan64]

“Be careful how you speak to Mii boy.” - Xu WenWu while playing Mario Kart Wii with his son Shang-Chi.

[@princessjello]

In an alternate universe... ;_;

[@Mangolite]

in the film, that boy is an old man who Wenwu out aged by thousands of years, lol! The actor is Yuen Wah, who played the landlord with flexible martial art skills in Kung Fu Hustle which its movie poster was featured in Shang-Chi’s room.

[@howardmao3331]

I'm kind of disappointed they didn't translate the line after that so well. The English sub just says "I've lived ten times as long as you", but in Mandarin, he literally says "I've eaten more years than you've eaten meals", which is way more badass.

[@DarthVaderOfficial]

@@howardmao3331 actually I’m pretty sure the phrase is “I’ve eaten more salt than you have rice”, unless they tweaked it for the movie. It’s a pretty common Chinese saying

[@ALTER_7]

"A terrorist in America needed a boogeyman to bring your country to its knees. So, he appropriated Ten Rings, my Ten Rings, but because he didn't know my actual name, he invented a new one. Do you know what that name he chose? The Mandarin. He gave his figurehead the name of a chicken dish. And it worked! America was terrified... of an orange!" -Wenwu

[@cyfkilla]

I loved that line so much. It also represents the USA’s current fear of China.

[@DickSenter]

The Mandarin is more than just the name of a fruit. And it works as a badass villain name in the comics. I hated this scene

[@mrrex3689]

@@DickSenter i like it tho

[@2Rice]

Guess i'm into older men now. The scene with Wenwu sleeves rolled up wearing a gangster/triad style suit, holding his kid's hand, then just decimating the parlor made my ovaries explore. Thanks Marvel.

[@08Pixel]

YES thank-you. Exact same feel

[@VejmR]

Explore?

[@wxylynn]

Same

[@rryase]

Same!! He looked so hot there 🤣🤣🤣🤣 those sleeves

[@BlackNarcissus9]

One of my favorite images of Wenwu as well!

[@kirk001]

I call Wenwu the best *antagonist of the MCU, cuz I don't see him as a villain.

[@Monkeyboy1138]

The best ‘villains’ have a certain grey area, whether that’s thinking that what they’re doing is the right thing or if you can rationalise, empathise or understand their motivations.

[@mayaparamita2254]

throughout the movie i feel he's the main character :D

[@gobigod2274]

@@mayaparamita2254 he was just like thanos was the main character of infinity war

[@gdas4092]

@@Monkeyboy1138 atleast he is better than most of broken villains in fiction to whom people say to emphatise

[@Monkeyboy1138]

@@gdas4092 yes and no, depends on the fiction. If you’re saying just film or tv, then sure, but if you look broader at comics and literature then it’s a hard no looking back hundreds of years.

[@Armature01]

The character of Wenwu was excellent and Tony Leung hit it out of the park.

[@topgig]

He was awesome!!

[@williamlee7672]

Marvel need to get RDJ and Tony Leung to make a prequel movie together. Two amazing actors together.

[@spidavenom4]

He really wasn’t even a villain to me in the story. He gave up his life for his wife and kids. He saw his wife murdered and trained his son to protect himself and the family. Both of his kids ran out on him while he was grieving and still let them live their lives. He only brought them back cause he thought his wife was coming back and he wanted his kids to see their mother. He only resorted to violence when the village refused because he thought his wife was trapped. Amazing written and portrayed character, but felt like his “villain” role was very forced.

[@cyberpunk2978]

Like Joker

[@dragoncat5767]

Where was it forced?

[@TheRaven8]

Agreed. He's so deeply feeling and convicted. I've seen the movie 4 times and it doesn't get old

[@aidan1931]

I like how he's a parallel to Thanos with him unwilling to let go of what he lost while Thanos sacrificed everything to accomplish what he wanted

[@hunnerdayEDT]

To those folks with a toxic upbringing, we look at Wen Wu and go....yep, I recognize that type of relationship. 🥺😭

[@randomman4628]

This is possibly the only Marvel Movie that has actually made me tear up and shed a few tears.

[@ltsTheLaww25]

Agree with all the points made. I think that's why it resonated with a lot of Asian Americans. It felt like therapy through movies watching all of their family disfunction and resolutions.

[@cmath6454]

Not Asian but I felt the same.

[@notawaifu4589]

I could watch a whole show just about wenwu

[@roguefrogger5823]

Wouldn't be surprised if this role earns him an Oscar nomination 😌

[@michaelcamp4990]

Usually "East Asia" refers to China, Japan, and the Koreas. Vietnam is usually considered part of "Southeast Asia," along with Laos, Cambodia, etc.

[@kameyouho4597]

But because Vietnam has a close cultural relationship with China, ie Confucius's, still be consider as part of East Asia, sometime

[@vietnamcuongthinh0711]

i am a vietnamese and i say vietnam culture is closer to other east asia countries like china japan, korea. Laos, Cambodia, Thailand influence only a minority in the southern part of vietnam

[@hollandscottthomas]

Yes! The rings themselves were an awesomely dynamic, kinetic weapon. So cool how they amped up the fight sequences.

[@SlipSlopSlurp]

Wenwu: "I know my wife's voice, she's calling to me." Shang Chi: "Wenwu you realize?"

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

The moment I saw him walk out with his button-up shirt and sandals, I remember thinking to myself: "Dad?!" Even pulls a tough love "I _let_ you do what you want for (insert amount of time here) to see what would happen. I was testing you". Really felt like a dad, and the moment where he thinks back to all the moments he loved his son, and went all the way back to remembering when he first held Shang as a baby got to me. Didn't want him to live to be a hero. I just wanted him to live to be a father.

[@arcady0]

He was the first villain with a motive we could all understand and even see someone doing. Anyone could easily see themselves being the 'modern' him if the circumstances lined up for it. A man trying to save his family who think he has found the way to do it.

[@apathynase148]

The last time I was remotely sympathetic to any mcu villain was killmonger, and not even that one came close as to how my heart ached after wenwu. His expressions, even without the dialogue really gives a punch he can easily switch from being a longing old soul to a centuries old conqueror. Not even thanos made me shiver, but wenwu did when he was reminding gun bao that he's lived tenfolds of the old man's years. And he wasn't even using his rings there to prove his vicious streak. A nice history is well and great, there are a lot of sources to be drawn. But it takes a lot for a real, grounded person to be made out of that background. I really, really hope mcu gets more of of these kinds of actors, especially for villains.

[@zaynkhalil3726]

I was fresh off rewatching Castlevania when I saw Shang-Chi and Wenwu felt so similar to Dracula, one of my other all time favorite villains. Both made so well, so much emotional weight to them.

[@tricksalot2]

Of course tony leung is a legend westerners dont know how talented this dude is.

[@notmattmurdock7663]

They sure do now.

[@tricksalot2]

@@notmattmurdock7663 they should ve back then i caught his talent back in hardboiled with chow yun fat back in the day.

[@mayaparamita2254]

@@notmattmurdock7663 although 30 years late

[@mayaparamita2254]

@@tricksalot2 you should check his 80s series Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre. It's very famous even in non chinese speaking country like Indonesia. Has been played multiple times over and over again in channel TV here through out the 90s and 2000s.

[@notmattmurdock7663]

@@mayaparamita2254 unfortunately. Though better late than never, I'd say.

[@F0RCEK92]

I really liked him. I just regret that he got instakilled by this monster. He should have had a last fight together with his son and die during it... I wanted to see him fight some more. Also I wonder if he was blipped.

[@WolverineBatman]

He was done fighting once he realized his wife wasn't coming back.

[@samueljacobs2484]

My only disappointment was that there was no payoff with the punching. Shang Chi has been thought all his life to punch (the numerous flashback of him punching into a pole(see 1:40)), so it would have been awesome if he had combined his mother’s fighting style and his fathers by punching into the monster using the rings instead of just using his mother’s. I would also have hoped to see more from that blue power ranger villain guy. We never got a resolution to his fight with Shaun This doesn’t take away from that I loved the movie So much.

[@jenniferli3675]

He still cops that final move from his dad tho! I’m pretty sure it’s Wenwu’s move on Shangchi, when the first five rings become Shangchi’s in the middle of their second bout.

[@ourcade8265]

When his aunt trains him, she has him open his fist. That can be seen as a derivation from the harsh style of fighting that his dad taught him, or as opening up all of his heart and himself which he had previously been hiding

[@fremzter]

I dont even know if you watched the movie lol Shang chi didnt even want to fight like his father. That's the very reason why he left. Then aunt trained him like his mother as Shang chi asked how did his mother beat him. Come on bro pay attention lol...

[@goji253]

You seem to be ignoring that the rings already symbolise his father in that fight though. Shang Chi is using his father's weapon and his mother's techniques in unison to defeat the dweller.

[@rryase]

Yeah poor power ranger dude. unclimatic ending for him.

[@topgig]

Wenwu was one of my favorite Marvel villains ever, and Shang-Chi was a spectacular movie. Tony Leung was excellent!!

[@malayjoshi1098]

I think it's the first villian driven marvel movie Tony Leung simply stole the show his eyes 🙏🙏❤️

[@totalishnc]

My favorite thing about Wenwu is that he is the ultimate failed father. He really wants to love his kids but he doesnt know how, because he doesnt even know how to love himself without his wife. She died and his kids needed him, but he wasn't there and instead became totally absorbed in the rings again, Makes for a really tragic and great villain

[@biazacha]

And is so undeniable human, something hard to achieve with characters larger than life like the MCU, his writing perfected what Loki, Killmonger and Thanos started.

[@danieltaber4924]

One of the things I like about Wenwu is that they literally made a list of Yellow Peril tropes to make sure that they avoided or subverted every single one of them. That's part of how they got a character with this much depth.

[@Ortex313]

I feel like this movie fell really far short of its potential but Tony Leung still ruled!

[@thepaperninja3123]

Jeez I thought I was the only one

[@JainaSoloB312]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who adores the Ten Rings as a concept/weapon I honestly think they could become the next Lightsaber in terms of an internationally-recognized icon that everyone wants which is being constantly imitated

[@ritikamudabidri7680]

I don't think that would have come out in conversation. Shang-chi's mother wouldn't have had anything to warn Wenwui about because she left her life in the village behind.

[@thevindicator1220]

He reminds me a lot of Wilson Fisk from the Daredevil show, both of them were ruthless monsters but when we are introduced to them they are falling in love and becoming more human. They are the leaders of criminal organizations too etc.

[@michigames1201]

When I went to see this movie, I was expecting a Milan “YoU mUsT hOnOr YoUr HeRiTaGe” and I’m glad it wasn’t another mulan. This movie had a grip on me, I was so deep into this movie every time they were fighting I was dodging with them. I also like how it wasn’t trying to be like other movies and was it’s own thing in my book. I like how you can kinda sympathize with a villain and how we see his development as a person and his past.

[@mamabear62anv99]

I love watching Tony Leung ..... didn't get enough of him in Shang-Chi ....

[@cinematicgoodness7325]

The moment where Wenwu goes after the guys that murdered his wife was such a beautifully executed scene. The amount of hell he reigns down upon them was so evident in how fast and kinectic the fight was. Tony Leung really sold every look, every movement associated with hate, anger, grief, and desperation and perfectly attuned that to his tragic upbringing back into the criminal syndicate he raised. What a great villain. What a great performance.

[@madnessarcade7447]

He wasn’t really that much of a villain in this movie tbh He was evil and then he got redemption and a majority of the movie is him trying to live without his wife and struggling to let her go It’s not like it was malicious intentionally

[@jessjms1181]

More like antagonist in this movie. But he is a power hungry bad guy.

[@madnessarcade7447]

@@jessjms1181 in general for sure but I meant not of this one

[@boreos3499]

Really good. Totally agree! Excellent villaining and acting!

[@AlexMartinez-gv7hy]

Best villain so far. Strong story arc and hope more villains gain something similar not the same.

[@abhimanyubanerjee3999]

My counter to the nitpick is that Li probably never told Wenwu. After her death, Wenwu is seen to be researching everything about the village. He had to send hit squad out to get the emerald/jade pendants from his estranged children so he could figure out when the secret path opened. This in itself is a character beat I feel. Either Li was afraid Wenwu would return to his conquering ways if she confided in him the secrets of her village. But I don't this is the case because it is also mentioned that Wenwu tried to settle down in Li's village after marrying her but the "elders" did not believe that he had changed as much as Li did. So I think it was simply a decision on Li's part to not talk about her village in a "it is not my secret to tell" kind of sentiment. Wenwu also probably never enquired as a symbol of leaving that life behind.

[@michaelp9061]

Wenwu is a truly authentic character unlike some other villains that really is placed here and there.

[@ViralHub1]

We need a ' The Mandarin' movie!

[@dunkleham]

Tony Leung was my favorite part of the film tbh

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

I think Wenwu is definitely among the best villains in a Marvel live action project. Along with Doc Ock (Alfred Molina), Green Goblin (Willem Dafoe), Magneto (both Ian and Michael), and the MCU ones like Killmonger, Vulture and Thanos

[@g1mysterio682]

Wenwu reminds me a lot of Kratos in the aspect that he tries to bury his past, and move on, but circumstances outside of his control force him to dig up that past. It's honestly beautiful.

[@neil2345]

I think everything you've mentioned is 100% true and elevated by the brilliant Tony Leung. With the slightest look he is able to convey sadness, anger, love, grief etc. You look at him and immediately understand what he's going through and really feel for him. His actions may be extreme, but his motivation is pure.

[@buddhidev7877]

Beside of a very good script, the legendary actor Tony Leung was incredible and the MCU should bring him back to reprise this role again.

[@greeninferno1339]

Dude rocks a badass suit like no other...

[@wildflashback1979]

Wenwu is in my top 5 favourite characters from any marvel movie

[@fannyalexander5906]

Villains are always often overlooked. Seriously they are the ones that make or break a film. An effective villain makes an effective protagonist. Tony really did a great job here. He’s a scene stealer, almost all the energy/vibe of this film surrounds and resonates upon him. That’s what a perfect villain is.

[@milkiassamuel780]

Wen Wu was such a three-dimensional character and his motivation, character and goals were all so great, and only emphasised further by the great Tony Leung himself. I also liked how Xu Wen Wu's motivation reminded me a lot of Mr Freeze (both noble and tragic men who wanted to save the their true love's) and both characters are perfect examples of sympathetic antagonists written well.

[@KRYMauL]

I want to see a Wu Sha movie with Wen Wu as master Khan taking on Wukong.

[@jjongwol]

When I first read the plot that Shangchi's villain is going to be his tyrant father, this is not the plot I prepared for. I sort of expected things go like Thanos and Nebula relationship, but turns out the director prepared even deeper bond through Wen Wu's arc And now it isn't easy for me to move on from this villain!