Wingspan | Shelfside Review

[@jerryboy0422]

I really appreciate how different your personal scores can be from the “official score”. I also really appreciate it when reviewers dont shy away from saying that they dont like popular games (as long as theyre well founded).

[@kentarokaos]

In keeping with the theme, and to help improve the con of the cards having tiny text, they should sell a binocular accessory do that you can view your opponents' aviaries.

[@BlueTorchWeddings]

These guys are mad funny. I really appreciate the honesty and transparency on this channel. It's dope that you guys can see an amazing game and give it it's props while still admitting that personally it's not very fun. You have earned my respect! And my sub. Lovely content 😊

[@Shelfside]

Our pleasure!

[@BigLowry]

You guys do some excellent content. Really respect the objective review and then the personal opinions. Truly rounds everything out. Looking forward to more content and this channel blowing up.

[@mistuhbear]

God tier intro. I've played my copy of Wingspan a number of times already but haven't even opened my expansion or bonus card pack yet. Gotta get my group around to hit this one again

[@Uggies]

i subbed yesterday, started watching some older reviews and i died when i saw the BIRD UP!

[@Shelfside]

BIRD UP! :D

[@Xoopams]

"snap/snap + this green tree; snap/snap + this yellow grass; snap/snap + or this blue water"... just cracked me up

[@fightingkitchen7960]

Did you know there’s an app called “wingsong” that let’s you scan the bird cards & it will make the sound of the bird! (Easter egg) Also, if you scan the “greater road runner” card, the sound it will make will be same sould that the road runner from loony tunes!

[@worldofbachman]

This is the best, quickest, and funniest explanation of how to play Wingspan I have found. A++

[@arkadiuszkrzos666]

Ok, I really respect the difference between personal scores and "professional" score. That's awesome that you can set aside your opinions and recognize more objective viewpoint on the matter. Keep it up!

[@Shelfside]

cheers! Yeah its something we definitely set out to do while making our review template, glad to see ya enjoyed it -Ashton

[@sebasculin3739]

I've played this dozens of times with my partner, the card randomness has become a real issue for me, I have a plan I just don't have the cards for it. During the game, esepcially with expansions, there are bird traits you may never see! I had 5 bonus cards recently and got 9 points from them. So what have we been doing? (I will probably start doing an initial drafts as well) 1. Egg laying is zero drawback, it allows the playing of more birds and is points at the end of the game. 1a. Final round "Lay Eggs" produces 1 fewer eggs. It means that other strategies are valid if you can manage 3/4 points a turn. 2. The bonus cards asking for different power colours are nigh impossible to do well on with a random deck since over half the cards are brown you could never see a different colour power. 2a. We split the deck into brown powers and other powers (2 decks); we fill the card row 1 brown/ 1 other and 1 of refilling player's choice. This also adds some extra decision whether you want to keep using a habitat, if not, just grab/add a non-brown bird for its benefits. 3 Bonus cards are underpowererd since its based on something that may never happen, and some have really high requirements for not enough points, you can't know, especially at game start. 3a. Instead of picking one bonus card at game start. Keep both and discard 1 of your bonus cards at the end of the game. What else have we considered? 1. The egg costs should be lower or ask for other resources. Slot 5 costs you 2 points (and the actions needed to get the resources) for a slot you may never use (not even turns to justify its use), and gives you no real benefit since you would need to discard even more resources. We haven't touched this since the new expansion seems to have improved the board balance. 2. Adding an extra card to the row; 2 brown/ 2 other colours. They literally made a 3 slot card tray and there are a couple of birds that grab all of X birds in the card row, so it could make them more powerful though I've yet to see that.

[@OleksandrMilkovskyi]

First of all, a nice review! I like how you structure your reviews in overview, pros, cons and 3 ratings. I have the same feeling about Wingspan. I can understand why people love Wingspan and I would definitely recommend this game to my friends. But I simply do not enjoy it. I have played Wingspan 2 times (first time with the european expantion 4 players, second time on Tabletop Simulator 3 players. I won in both games). It was all the time not intresting to me to watch, what others players are doing at the table. The game is lacking of interraction. I was just always boringly waiting for my turn (btw I have the same problem with other popular engine builders, for example Terafforming Mars). In addition the engine itself is not that intresting, without any deep strategy, because it is based on luck of the bird cards, that you get. An example of a better engine builder that I like is "Res Arcana". There is a lot of strategy in that game and almost no randomness. I am always intrested in watching moves of other players, because there is much more interaction: cards/tiles competition, winning conditions fulfillment, some cards may attack, etc. Thanks for the honest reiew! I thought that I am the only one who does not like this game :-)

[@Shelfside]

You're not the only one; there's plenty of people online who complain about Wingspan being a solitaire game lol -Daniel

[@shortydancer]

Just discovered your guys channel. Pretty good videos! You guys seem like some of my friends growing up. You two didn’t go to UCI did you?

[@rubysauce]

I stumbled upon this channel because Ive been getting into board games recently. This vid is excellent, because you both seem to dislike this game but still recognize the potential for people that do prefer these kinds of games! Great review!

[@Shelfside]

There's a lot of people I played with in college that I'd recommend this to in a heartbeat, super tight game but I hate it haha -Daniel

[@DrMcFly28]

Dividing the objective score and personal score is a great idea, but it sure does cause whiplash like in this review. I don't know if I could ever call a game "excellent" if it bores me out of my skull, and I'm slightly annoyed that there's now a game that is extremely highly regarded and is strongly breaking into a mainstream, while at the same time being one of the dullest experiences this hobby can offer (and this is from someone who actually enjoys tinkering with euro engines). Sure, I get it, birds, pastel colours, beautiful components, relaxing vibe... but IMO a game that garners so many praises really needs to push more buttons; even the most magnificent, luxurious, lovingly made oatmeal in the world is still bloody oatmeal. :)

[@Shelfside]

The thing is, for a game that's purposely trying to be a low interaction medium-ish euro, Wingspan hits its mark in stride. There's tons of players out there who adore games like this, and while that's not my taste, I can recognize when a game does this extremely well. The engine building cardplay is amazingly well done and it's combined with outstanding components. If I'm trying to be critical, it'd be absurd to call this game bad, like I can definitely see how cool Wingspan's cardplay system is. This is why it's so important to note how I personally feel (and honestly personal tastes are super subjective and subtly fickle anyways) alongside how well the game does what it's trying to do. I've met people who absolutely adore Wingspan, and to call their taste bad instead of just saying this game isn't for me ain't exactly a fair review. -Daniel

[@ShootingSunMedia]

After watching several of your channel's videos, this one has sold me to subscribe from the energy of the review. Well paced, funny and with good editing; plus, superbly entertaining but also honest and informative. I learnt the gameplay here more than in other reviews. God job and can't wait to watch more :)

[@Shelfside]

awesome man! Glad you got a lot out of this, this review was a fun one to make. More content coming out all the time! -Ashton

[@bastianvillebro6420]

Daniels goofiness is part of the reason why you guys are my favorite board game youtubers

[@Shelfside]

Cheers man! Much more goofy daniel to come for sure, especially after Covid! -Ashton

[@Shelfside]

thanks i try to do goof -Daniel

[@bastianvillebro6420]

@@Shelfside can’t wait! X)

[@keanus9871]

I appreciate your personal scores, because now I know that while I’d love the theme, I would never want to play a board game with no player interaction

[@Shelfside]

cheers! Game really isn't for anyone in our friend group actually ahahaha, but has a strong following in the community in how well its design accomplishes what its trying to do! -Ashton

[@naturesfinest2408]

Definitely a chill game. Its good with groups that dont like aggression, cut throat, or anything else thats generally mean. I have quite a few friends like that so wingspan tends to go over well for them.

[@robertthurman9866]

A great review. After watching your review and a few other critical reviews I decided this is exactly the game I wanted. And I am really enjoying it. You guys went into the game play strategies enough to give a better idea of game play than other reviews.

[@JeanDubuc]

Well spoken review. I wanna try this one!

[@garishere]

LMAO great entertaining review! We need more high quality and humourous reviews like this

[@Sagartkothari]

You guys do entertaining reviews with good insights a la NPI/ SUSD! Hope you release reviews frequently.

[@akselhansen304]

More games should have this unbelievable high production value both visually and component wise

[@andrewchristopher8334]

I’m new to the hobby. This is my favorite channel lol

[@Iamwrongbut]

Couldnt agree more with the personal scores 😂

[@akselhansen304]

I'm in the same boat where I want more player interaction when I play board games so u got any recommendations for a 3 player group?

[@Shelfside]

Of the top of my head for Euro games, I really like Suburbia because other players constantly affect the market and you have to be aware of how their buildings affect you. -Daniel

[@akselhansen304]

@@Shelfside thanks I gotta see if I can find that one doesn't have to be a euro game just not a coop game a member of my group don't like those

[@arkadiuszkrzos666]

I love the energy of "how to play" part:)

[@Shelfside]

Yeah I hate when how to plays are boring info dumps lol -Daniel

[@something1793]

did you guys ever return to this for the oceania and asia expansion? and if you didnt then why not? ive heard it helps the games issues a lot and overall just makes the whole experience better

[@Shelfside]

Unfortunately not, and we also no longer have access to Wingspan because the copy in this video was borrowed from a friend, plus they sold it a while back lmao -Daniel

[@something1793]

@@Shelfside ah i see, I've seen a lot of people say the same thing like you guys about wingspan and then the dlc pretty much change their opinions on the game. Plus now that asia also released with a new gamemode.

[@avatarmary]

do you guys plan to review the expansions there are a few now

[@Shelfside]

Not likely since this was our friend's copy who has since sold it -Daniel

[@angeloarcenas5947]

I enjoy playing this game. Good thing i bought the game before watching this. Otherwise, i would have ended up not buying it due to your personal score.

[@isaacsauer659]

Hey just started watching you guys and have been enjoying the content! It really feels weird though that your recommended score is so high and yet you both personally really disliked it.

[@Shelfside]

I mean, I just think it's a really good game but it's super not for me lmao. It's clearly very well made, really balanced and super thoughtful in its gameplay but the player interaction is basically non-existent for my tastes. -Daniel

[@LightPink]

This is the perfect game for my mom

[@Shelfside]

ahhaa one of our friends bought it for his gf too x) -Ashton

[@iBeKev]

Monster hunter world reference eh :)

[@Shelfside]

Ayyyyyy

[@SimplicitySingularity]

Man was that a great review, and the cursing didn't bother me a bit. Thought the half ass attempt to beep it out near the end, and only near the end, did make me chuckle. Wingspan is not for me, don't own it, don't want to play. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it's solitaire games that you play with others. It's like you all get together to do your taxes and after everyone's finished the person who got the biggest return wins.

[@Haddedam]

Id slot eclipse 2nd edition into same gameplay as wingspan

[@Shelfside]

is it really that solitaire feeling!? I would hope not, we're supposed to make a review on that one day haha -Ashton

[@Haddedam]

@@Shelfside So cool you replied! Our sessions ended with us sitting in our corners, developing our ships and attacking AI. Since rng plays a huge factor, we couldve been dealt a bad hand, but just like scythe isnt a true 4x, eclipse also lacks the mechanics that encourage players to interact with one another beyond maybe a few combat engagements. Being neighbour to Finland, i can attest eclipse is a game with true finnish personality. Amazingly designed and great components but surprisngly little player to player interaction.

[@greenspartan1213]

Bushtit was not random admit it

[@abesapien9930]

This review, being completely honest, doesn't sit well with me. You both have tried to assume all the pros of the game is what "all the other gamers out there" will singularly appreciate, while you assume all the cons must simply stem from your own preferences or personal feelings. I think you're being way too safe and should not have given this game anywhere close to a 9/10. For example, a game that has almost zero interaction is badly designed, and that should fit into your overall score. A solo game masquerading as a multiplayer game is just objectively bad. Also, if the theme fell flat, that might be a tad unavoidable if you could care less about birds, but it also might reflect poor thematic implementation on the designer's part. For example, the designer could have made hunting such a more interesting part in this game--and that would have drawn you into the theme--but chose to leave hunting to a single random card draw. To me, it just feels like you have said in this review, "YOU, the viewer, will probably feel this is a 9/10, but silly picky us feel it is a 3/10." Assuming others will have such a positive experience of this game, when you clearly have not, really shouldn't be the case.

[@Shelfside]

Naw, some people really want low interaction euros, you gonna call their tastes objectively bad? We're saying that this game easily nails what its design goals were, and unlike a lot of low interaction euros, Wingspan has great mechanics and balance whereas lots of others fall flat with predetermined openings/strategies resulting in low decision making options as a result. -Daniel

[@abesapien9930]

​@@Shelfside How do you know what its "design goals" were? What if this relatively unknown designer just didn't know to create tense yet fair player conflict...and felt squeamish towards any kind of conflict? That would be a typical challenge for a lot of new game designers. Secondly, why assume this game has "great mechanics"--when all those mechanics are feeding the solo experience you absolutely despised? And yes, a game with zero player interaction (not a little, which would be acceptable), is objectively bad game design. Both of your reactions, at the very least, betray this.

[@Lyssa_Snowcloak]

@@abesapien9930 I know I'm late to the party but this is a very mysterious argument to me. They interpret the design intention in this way because of how the rules are structured and how the game manifests. Unless a designer comes out and says "no you must interpret it as only", why would they ponder if the designer stumbled into another genre by accident? It doesn't matter what the designer wants even if they did that, really, it matters what the game is actually like, which you seem to acknowledge. Also, I'd be amazed if you can somehow defend ANYTHING involving having fun can be "objectively" demonstrated. Shelfside is being humble and recognizing the potential value for people by stating what it does and does not provide, and letting people decide. There are, in fact, a huge number of Uwe Rosenberg game fans out there. Are they confused, actually "objectively" not having fun while they think they are? Caverna and A Feast for Odin are around the same level of solitaire.

[@TheMath3uss]

I don't really understand what the point of the recommender score is. Every review score is subjective. Even the scores that tries to be objective. How can you judge whether the game gave justice to the bird theme if you are not into it? You can't. If the score has got nothing to do with what you feel it ends up just being a mirror of the score that other people on the internet gave to the game and nobody needs that.

[@Shelfside]

The Recommender Score was initially how well we think the game performed due to critically evaluting the pros/cons brought up. Over time, we have refined this to also include the caveat: is this game even a good idea in the first place. Of course, this score cannot be objective, but its our way of attempting to differentiate our own personal tastes of games, to what the game is trying to do. Wingspan is a good example for us, because one feature we really dislike the more solitaire nature of it, but a game being more solitaire leaning isn't necessarily a bad thing -Ashton

[@Shelfside]

I mean even though everyone has biases, it's not like that completely stops one's ability to be critical. The point of the recommender score is to evaluate how well the game does what it set out to do, both in concept and execution. The concept is solid here: super crunchy mediumweight low interaction engine builder, I know plenty of people who love these aspects in a game. Sure, I don't enjoy low interaction, but I can understand why games that are all about optimizing systems without much interference from others is appealing. Wingspan has excellent gameplay, excellent components, and is very much a crunchy low interaction euro that accomplishes that design goal extremely well. It'd be crazy to call this a bad game just because it isn't for me, and it's totally possible to evaluate various merits and faults even while knowing this. It's like speech and debate 101 where they teach people how to strongly argue in favor of something they don't personally agree with, and dislking something shouldn't blind a person from being able to understand it. -Daniel

[@notavailable6460]

How did I sleep on this