Smash Ultimate Wasted Such A Good Opportunity...

Samus and Dark Samus represent some of the strangest clone/Echo Fighter thinking of anyone in Smash Ultimate.

[@MockRockTalk]

To be fair, the Melee Charge Shot isn't the _only_ way you could have approached separating Samus and Dark Samus efficiently (this is taken from a video about Custom Moves so what do you expect lol), but the big takeaway is there are a lot of things that _could_ have been done, and absolutely nothing that _was_ done :/

[@DeadweightLKS]

The most obvious one for me was giving Dark Samus Mewtwo’s Up B. She teleports in Metroid, a lot, and it would be a perfect ying yang with Samus - you lose the combo finisher and out of shield option for a better recovery

[@henkiestudios5117]

@@DeadweightLKS Mewtwo should absolutely have teleport as iyts up b but teleport moves as up b are pretty lame(the should change palu's to another custom move)

[@marzipancutter8144]

I'm still all in on the idea giving her a reflector Phazon burst. DS deflecting your missiles and having to wait/bait out her reflector to get more damage in is one of the core mechanics of her fights.

[@grantdraus7449]

Yin yang but you're right​@@DeadweightLKS

[@razor8304]

Such a shame that they wasted the potential of so many Echoes to just be practical recolors of the base character with not very notable changes. I get that game development is hard and that the team was most likely under time constraints, but was it so hard to give Daisy, Dark Samus or Richter the kind of treatment Ken got? Even the pretty subtle changes that Dark Pit gets would be fine instead of next to nothing.

[@henkiestudios5117]

I always saw as it that samus,peach and simon got 16 costumes

[@shyguyissoawesomeguys]

i desperately wish that more echo fighters were treated like dr. mario. uses the same model, share a good number of moves, but has just enough property changes with a couple of move replacements that work to change the playstyle of the character. even lucina does a decent job, with literally 0 changes except for the lack of a tipper - that simple change means marth and lucina do NOT play the same, which is cool! i wish they did that more!

[@squiddler7731]

It's funny how there was one obscure difference between peach and daisy and they patched it out at some point. Think it was something with the turnips being slightly different?

[@calebmunkirs9661]

As far as I can see, normal Samus is better because electric moves have more lag when they clank and a few insignificant hit box differences

[@henkiestudios5117]

@@squiddler7731 yea peach’s turnips were changed from 4 to ultimate but daisy’s turnips were at first peach’s old turnips

[@benjamingesinski9170]

I think the dense charge shot might be a better choice. A slow moving that creates an ever present danger on the battlefield feels more fitting for Dark Samus.

[@etherealbladerx8153]

Dark samus down smash should have been the phazon crystals she had as an assist trophy back in smash4

[@HDGamerofficial]

Yes

[@user-vx9jy7jl2l]

Yeah they literally had all the moves right there but that’s the thing about Metroid in Japan. They really don’t care about Metroid unfortunately.

[@rinnnnnnnnnnrin]

​@@user-vx9jy7jl2lif that was true at all then there wouldn't be so many metroid games, you've seen how easily Nintendo gives up on a franchise(due to their own dumbass mistakes) like starfox and chibi robo

[@t_piig]

lol this reminds me of Donkey Kong's super punch

[@sqoosh636]

If they make another smash game and bring back dark samus I'd love to see them be a more aggressive rushdown version of samus that'd be so cool.

[@pezdoma5674]

I wish they would give dark Samus a close range sweet spot kinda like Roy to make her a more head on and aggressive character plus it could also make the custom move fit even more because it’s close range not a far projectile

[@Frosthowl93]

I just wish Dark Samus had the scatter charge shot and was a little floatier.

[@Ridlay_]

Echo fighters are still the single biggest missed opportunity in Smash, ever. Ken shows a bit of how it could have been done, like the same character but remixed, which is actually an interesting idea. Oh well, what could have been.

[@MisterFiasco]

Still think Dense Charge Shot would fit DS better. Better pressure, can grab through it, interesting edgeguards or traps (they see the fully charge shot and hang back because jump won’t clear it, going under it to run headfirst into a bair for their troubles). Also it’s similar to an attack DS did back in her assist trophy days, so it’s not out of left field either.

[@searchethan8603]

OMG THIS WORKS SO WELL I WISH ALL ECHOS JUST HAD A FEW CHANGES LIKE THIS

[@Skynetbear]

I really wanted Dark Samus to have more tendril attacks in Smash, but at least they appear in her forward smash and her arial tether is basically a tendril

[@TheSilvershadow200]

Custom moves overall would have been amazing to keep as they are so fun casually. But I can see how that'd be difficult to develop for 80 characters.

[@ShuckleShellAnemia]

It’s a crime Dark Samus’s iconic attack, her spread-shot gatling gun, didn’t get represented

[@Shyningfade]

This should've been the case since day 1. Smash 4's Custom moves given to all echoes.

[@axolofa]

I would love if, in the next game, Samus had the ability to choose between different weapons like she can in Prime, which would change her Neutral B. Charge Shot, a fast lazer, a strong single shot, etc. Maybe by pressing B while shielding like with inkling?

[@nintendogamer1926]

I wish they still had the custom moves

[@seansean792]

Oh I remember writing stuff down for Dark Samus Stuff like... Using the assist trophy for smash attack references, and the wild "use down b to split dark samus into two, doubling the hurtbox size and cutting damage per dark samus to just a little over half of normal damage" Good times

[@Xidphel]

I was also thinking of how Dark Samus splits in the Prime series. Still wondering how (if possible) to implement it.

[@King_Calcium]

The only two things i want in the next smash bros game is: Clones having unique movesets Fighters having more moves/final smashes that are accurate to their home series (for example, the only move in Ness's moveset that he knows in Earthbound is PK Flash. That needs to change.)

[@Mike-sp7zv]

If you want a slow and floaty character we have mewtwo. One is enough for me

[@vocalcalibration8033]

I mean Dark Samus has enough to pull from to make an entirely unique character

[@ToshisGarden]

Dark Samus already has a perfect answer to Charge Shot in the Prime games: a Phazon Shotgun blast. It's not something I bring up to say your idea is bad, but rather just something I was mentioning as an alternative! It also could have had a counter move that worked a bit like a combo between Zelda's Phantom and Mythra's Foresight by cloning itself for a counterattack. I was disappointed that they were pulling its design from Prime 3, but not the cloning technique in any real capacity.

[@alexskocy9948]

What you want is semi-clones like doc or falco, not echos. The point of an echo is the exact same character with very minor changes Lucina is just marth without tipper Chrom is just roy without hilter Richter is Simon with aura fire Dark Samus is Samus with fire instead of electric

[@SpaghettiJoBayBay]

I remember there was a "leak" that claimed Dark Pit in Sm4sh would utilize Brawl Pit's moveset and was hoping that would be the case but instead he was just kinda shitty Pit. Idk why they opted not utilize the custom moves for Clone characters in Ultimate. I don't think it would of cost too much to do and it would give more of a reason to play them besides cosmetic and slight difference. Like what even is the difference for Peach and Daisy?? One has hearts and other has flowers that's all ya get.

[@izzylee64]

I still want them to bring back custom moves. Sure most of them were worse than their normal specials, but there were some customizations that really changed up how you played some characters. Freaky Fruit for pac-man for example changed like 45% of how you played the character because of how important Pac-Man's fruit and how they interact with his hydrant are to his play style. On top of actually not being a clear and obvious straight-up downgrade like most customs, it was also just funny.

[@thegreatgoobert5847]

Why would putting a metroid game in first person force them slow it down?

[@demi-femme4821]

Smash ultimate should've completely reworked Samus to play like how she does in Samus Returns while having Dark Samus play like the old Samus moveset from previous Smash games. If you're going to have a second Samus, why not take the chance to improve the first?

[@nacl4988]

You have invented Donkey Kong giant-punch but again

[@toxic_shr00m]

No, Sakurai did that

[@kadabraguy9846]

I'm a bit confused about your comment on them bringing one of Missile's custom moves over. Isn't Missile basically the same as the default SSB4 version?

[@marzipancutter8144]

Yes it's default, although drastically nerfed.

[@nolanschotanus2769]

Okay lets talk about that. Why did Ultimate introduce the concept of echo fighters and then promptly never did anything with that concept? It wouldve been so easy to release like double the dlc roster with just echo variations of existing fighters but Nintendo just forgot they made echo fighters a month in.

[@shyguyissoawesomeguys]

i personally wish they made echo fighters...good. like, made them cool in any way, maybe. but even if they didn't, i don't get why they dropped them so quickly when it could've been an easy DLC pack, just like you said. here's gooigi for luigi! phantom ganon for ganondorf! shadow kirby for kirby! octoling for inkling! would they have made them *interesting* and *fun?* i have my doubts, but it would've made too much sense for a marketing perspective

[@alexskocy9948]

Sakurai explained pretty early on echos were just added, so people stopped complaining that clones "stole a character slots from x,y,z characters"

[@Dizz2K7]

no

[@behg_sam]

Lmao nah

[@Unnkxn0wn]

Cool so it’s like dr Mario where he’s stronger

[@dragon091327]

Wait dark samus’s missiles can move faster then Og Samus?

[@MadSkull]

The developers were too braindead to thinking about something like that. Better copy paste and call them "echo fighters".