Stop Handwaving Manny's Flaws

[@terranceforeman5116]

I felt like Manny was one of the most realistic girl on degrassi... She had made a lot of mistakes and hopefully she learned from them and won't repeat the same mistakes I think Jimmy is another one, someone made a big post about him on the subreddit

[@NotAVampyre]

I saw the Jimmy post. A lot of their points I take issue with as they are out of context and seem to say "Jimmy is bad because he has done not nice things." There isn't analysis as to why this makes him bad or discussion of his actual flaws like his stubborness and being too spiteful when holding a grudge.

[@terranceforeman5116]

Ahh crap thank you, i misunderstood everything

[@NotAVampyre]

No, you're fine. I was sort of airing out my thoughts on the thread. It kinda makes me want to do a video on Jimmy's actual flaws.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre I didnt really like Jimmy in season 1 cuz of the way he kept picking on Sean and wouldnt leave him alone constantly bringing up the fact he got held back like if you just said hey bro you wanna play. If you didnt even bring up the fact Sean got held back you two could be good friends. I love that Sean beat up Jimmy he needed a serious ass whooping. But I don’t get why they made him push Emma that was unnecessary.

[@NotAVampyre]

You vastly mischaracterize Jimmy here. He wasn't picking on Sean. He was trying to be bros with him. It just so happened that Jimmy ended up rubbing salt into Sean's wounds and Sean didn't want anything to do with his old friends in the first place. And how can you not see why Sean pushed Emma? Its an expression of Sean's major flaw of getting carried away by his self loathing. The same thing that causes him to act out whenever he thinks he failed. I suspect you are being like Sean was to Emma in season 6. You put him so high on a pedistal that you do not allow him to be a real, flawed person.

[@sweetgeo96]

Bianca did bad stuff in the beginning like outing Adam but she gets better and becomes a fan fave

[@NotAVampyre]

No one is cancelling anything here. Please see my other reply to your first comment.

[@NotAVampyre]

FYI, not every leftist sjw fits the strawman narrative you've created. Either way, get banned beeoootcch

[@gm.8805]

nah screw bianca

[@lenaertsjelke]

The reason I love Manny so much is that she has made terrible mistakes and got backlash from it but eventually learned a lot out of the situation and grew to be a better person. Manny has always been the type of person who goes 100% when she wants something. In the begining that was Craig and she handled that wrong but towards her later seasons that is acting and following her dreams and she know how to handle it. Most shows make characters make mistakes and have them get backlash and learn out of it all in one episode, maybe a two parter. In later episodes it seems like the mistake never happened. A thing about Degrassi I have always loved is that it doesn’t do that. With people like Manny, Paige, Zoey, Miles ... you don’t realize how much they’ve grown and until you’ve finished their storyline and look back. They grow and learn by making many mistakes and over a long period of time, just like most people in real life do.

[@gm.8805]

i love how determined she was to be an actress. i loved when she said “i’m gonna be an actress, whatever it takes”

[@uniraffesaur]

Right? Like can we appreciate how good of characters these are when I can hate them so much at one point, and grow to love them at another, in a way that’s totally earned?

[@michellesakura1]

In regards to Craig and Manny in season 3, Craig pursued her too knowing he wasn't single. Both were in the wrong. She was a homewrecker and Craig was dirty. I have grown to like Manny later on thoe. As for Paige she has a good heart but in early seasons was a bit nasty for no reason, like Zöe early in her days

[@gm.8805]

honestly i can understand why manny wanted craig. she saw how craig did all those things for ashley and just wanted craig to do the same for her. sorry, i’m not fluent in english, but i hope i’m making sense.

[@cat-dk3ql]

I like Manny because she’s human. I think Manny made a lot of mistakes, did some stuff wrong, and she should be held accountable (such as Craig and Ashley) but she was also someone who grew from her problematic behavior and became a better person. She’s three dimensional and well-written and that’s why I like her. Real people are nowhere near perfect and often make these mistakes as teenagers and that’s what makes Manny human

[@vladimirvilliani6732]

Manny IS the best character in the entire legacy of this show. period.

[@NotAVampyre]

Disagree

[@vmkblaster1]

Manny is so iconic and I’m glad she becomes a big actress. She deserves the absolute best!

[@briv2403]

Manny is definitely in my top 5 of favorite Degrassi characters

[@sorntrash]

Maybe top 5

[@gm.8805]

she’s my girl forever !!

[@njyawndra8609]

I'm not saying Manny is a bad character. I just didn't like her since her season 3 persona. You guys can like Manny as much as you want but personally I don't see it. Also why was Emma getting upset at Manny for rejecting JT? She has the right to decline a date.

[@NotAVampyre]

She was not mad that Manny rejected him, she was mad that she started treating JT like crap and dismissing him as a person for the guys who were suddenly giving her attention.

[@cheshirerose2001]

I didn’t like Manny in season 3 but around season 5 she did become more of a favorite I absolutely hate Craig and Manny together though

[@KatieoftheNight]

JOEY JEREMIAH GETS HANDWAVED! from the moment he puts arthur in a broom closet to the moment he cheats on caitlin. his character is littered with terrible behavior throughout the years and people just think he's charming.

[@ohshenatural9307]

Katie of the Night true

[@NotAVampyre]

Man Joey. He's an interesting sort. I feel like he was humbled by Degrassi High and started to have less moments of being an ass (it was satisfying to see him go from bully to bullied) but he does also do some terrible things in between. I think much the reason he's remembered fondly is how different he is in TNG. Sure he's still not the best decision maker, but he's certainly become more decent than he was in school. If we only last saw him in School's Out, perhaps public opinion of him would be less favorable. (Doesn't help that his actor seems like a swell guy, so that muddies up real assesments of the character.)

[@diddyisadick3275]

Katie of the Night Also Remember when Drew cheated on Alli with Bianca in the boilor room and lied about he gets handwaived or when Spinner cheated on Darcy with Paige. But Jane cheated people hated her guts and she was the villain after that still bitter about how they made Jane the villain.

[@sammitchell5908]

Hi

[@NotAVampyre]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/ql69YWqcfZ2hias Please keep on topic. If you want to talk to us, please seek us out on Twitter or the like. Next time, I'll have to remove your comment.

[@mayavines8875]

I always felt like Tristan (pre brain damage) was a “hand waved” character in a way. Also, I’m not sure what fans of Degrassi Junior High/Degrassi High thought of Wheels, but his actions were also hand waved to an extent.

[@KatieoftheNight]

oh.... great point about wheels. i think the reason i handwave him is because of that gorgeous mullet.

[@NotAVampyre]

Tristan I agree was handwaved by the show. I actually did a video about why he's just the worst friend to Maya. Wheels on the other hand constantly was punished by the show at least for what he did. Hell, even Snake and Joey wanted nothing to do with him at one point. Hard to say though how fans feel about him. I typically see him spoken as a tragic figure, which he sort of is. Sad part is that a lot of the tragedy was brought upon by himself.

[@NotAVampyre]

He did pull it off better than anyone else I've seen.

[@matxalenc8410]

I feel Joey was hand waved. He brought destruction to every girl he dated!

[@oooh19]

@@NotAVampyre he WAS a very good looking guy so he could pull off that mullet lol most ppl cant. he had a nice smile

[@Daisy-ge1ig]

I like Manny but im tired of manny fangirls defending her she was wrong on many occasions and she did deserve the backlash she received.

[@naa7898]

I believe that a lot of the handwaving of Manny's flaws are due to the fact that she is punished (at times, disproportionately IMO) for her behavior & her overall growth. Her sexual/romantic affair with Craig & her emotional affair with Spinner are both examples of selfishness & an extreme disregard for others feelings (I've seen quite a few fans describe her as a "boyfriend stealer", "homewrecker" or blame her for breaking up these relationships - I don't really agree with these labels or ideas for reasons I may go into later). However, she is called out on her behavior by several characters on the show and the decisions she made at 14-15 impact her for the entirety of high school. Also, she learns from her mistakes and grows immensely throughout the show. Secondly, while this shouldn't impact the way that Manny is viewed in a vacuum, I think that a lot of fans are very forgiving (and, at times, dismissive) of her flaws due to the fact that she faces long-lasting, onscreen consequences for her actions while other characters, who engaged in similar behavior, face very little. Throughout the show, a lot of characters cheated on their significant others and/or were the "other" partner - including, but not limited to: Ashley (on Jimmy with Sean in Season 1 & on Craig with Alistair between seasons 4 and 5), Craig (discussed in this video), Jay (on Alex with Amy, Emma and a bunch of unnamed characters in Season 4), Spinner (on Darcy with Paige in Season 5), Emma (on Peter with Sean in Season 6 & on Sean with Damian in Season 7), Damian (on Emma with Liberty in Season 7), Jane (on Spinner with Declan in Season 9), K.C. (emotional cheated on Clare with Jenna in season 9 and sexually cheated on Jenna with Marisol in Season 11) , Drew (on Alli with Bianca in Season 10 and on Katie with Bianca in Season 11), Dave (on Alli with Jacinta in Season 11), Zig (on Tori with Maya in Season 12 and on Maya with Zoe in Next Class), Eli (on Clare with Lenore in Season 13), Winston (on Frankie with Lola in Season 14), etc. While some of the aforementioned characters also faced on-screen backlash for their behavior, the response to Manny stands out to me.

[@NotAVampyre]

Perhaps some of the handwaving comes from people thinking she's suffered already because of the slut shaming that pointing out how she inserted herself in between Ashley and Craig and then Spinner and Paige doesn't seem to matter as much. Confusing her actual mistakes for being unnoteworthy with the context of how she was punished for her sexuality. Both are worth considering and don't cancel each other out.

[@thelittlronan]

Manny is my favorite character, but yeah, she did some terrible things. I agree with Jalke on this one.

[@diddyisadick3275]

Selkie I wouldnt say terrible but not so good things thats appropriate Spinner and Jay did terrible things.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

To me, Craig is the King of Handwaves, because he never really takes responsibility and Ashley and even Manny take him back. He just can't stay committed. Paige can get hand waved a lot, loved Hazel calling her out in West End Girls.

[@NotAVampyre]

Yeah, Paige can be a real trash person at times, but fans still often forget it haha

[@gm.8805]

actually craig did take responsibility a lot of times. also paige was a bad friend to hazel.

[@paulae4033]

When it comes to Manny I think most of her supporters are just accepting of her flaws. The worst thing she did was sleep with Craig when he was in a relationship and she learned from that incident. I don't think what she did was terrible and her relationship with Spinner happened because Spaige was on the verge of a breakup. Paige and Spinner breaking up was inevitable after the events of of 401/402. Manny was a home-wrecker but she owned up to it and learned from it which is why I find it easy to ignore that aspect of her. In my opinion Manny is one of the best characters because of her flaws.

[@NotAVampyre]

I don't mind that she has flaws. What bothers me is that when we discuss how she was a boyfriend stealer, many are quick to excuse that point with "well Craig/Spinner cheated too!" as if that negates Manny's part.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre I feel Spinner was the bigger culprit she kind of just got caught up in the mess. I understand she messed up horribly wanting to get with Craig while he was with Ashley. But Craig was a culprit it was wrong of her to do that. If I had a girlfriend and a guy was trying to get her I’d be furious but she was the other women I don’t think she actually stole Craig she was still the other women. And Ashley even took Craig back foolishly. I feel people are way too hard on Manny for trying to get with Craig while he was with Manny and Manny herself even said,” Craig was the one cheating on his girlfriend okay no one talks about that do they.” If I was Craig heres what I would of chose Manny any day cuz I dont like Ashley at all. But I have a theory that his inability to make a decision like that forshadows his bipolar thing next season.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre What your trying to say is that while you don’t feel Manny should get hated she did go after Craig while he was with Ashley so that is to blame for but you also feel Craig cheating is horrible. That doesn’t excuse Manny for going after a guy who played for a team. I feel she was just young and naive and when your that your bound to make mistakes.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre As for Spinner I don’t think he actually cheated on Paige. Him and Manny just were talking and Paige was practically out the door I feel she kind of just got tangled in that mess she had no intent she even said that in the coffee shop right before Paige came in.

[@NotAVampyre]

You are doing the exact thing I rail against in this video. This "whataboutism" is reprehensible, and I'm tired of people proclaiming "but other people were bad too!" as though to say they negate Manny's faults. It doesn't matter what Craig or Spinner may have done. Manny still had to answer for the choices she made.

[@jackhageman9983]

I feel like a lot of stuff the girls did was very hand waved, Alex for the Rick incident, Darcy with the whole accusation of snake and her hypocrisy with her religion, Paige with Terri and Paige a lot of the time, Ellie not telling Craig about Ashely leaving him for another boy in England on his birthday and expecting an apology from him being mad at her, her pursuing Craig and actually driving him away from a lot of girls in his life life, especially when Craig dated Manny, Liberty and her backstabbing of Emma by dating Emma’s boyfriend, Ashley just toying with Jimmy during the entire series, Jane cheating on Spinner and expecting Spinner to forgive her, Emma’s general character and cluelessness, a bunch of degrassi girls get slack for stuff and the boys get punished for a lot of things that they do (besides Peter)

[@gudetamacx]

I agree with this so much. I’ve run into so many Manny fans in the comment sections saying stuff like “no hate will be allowed. Manny knew what she wanted and took it” and it’s frustrating bc I want to ask them how they would feel if their own significant other came into the picture. And while he’s it never is just manny’s fault, it’s the guys fault as well, people have to understand that most cheating cases are more lenient towards the guy solely because you remember the good and happy times and feel angry towards the person who came and wrecked it all. And while yes, there is the phrase once a cheater always a cheater, you’ll never understand how it feels until it actually happens to you. But I will say, Manny does become one of my favorite characters towards the end because of her progress and improvement. But it takes a while for me to fully accept her again, and it angers me when I see her fangirls just excuse and praise all her wrong actions

[@NotAVampyre]

Ugh so much same. That's actually what prompted this video, and seems that people still think Manny was justified for her actions.....yikes. I still like Manny as a character in this arc of her life, even if I find her morally abhorrent.

[@taforacho5693]

I think another character who fits this archetype is Zoe, she’s labeled as the mean girl of the school when in reality she’s actually a boyfriend stealer just like Manny. She helped Miles cheat on Maya and she again helped Zig cheat on Maya as well.

[@NotAVampyre]

I think of her less as a boyfriend stealer as her goal wasn't to make them her SO. With Miles...she was just blackout drunk. And with Zig she was just trying to hurt Grace. Frankly, she was using them rather than attempting to court them. I also think her situation is different from Manny because folks tend to fixate on the things she's done wrong, sometimes to the point of overkill. This.often blinds them to why she does these things and why she grew out of the evil person she was in season 13.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre All your saying is that you don’t condone slut shaming and while Craig is at fault he sure isnt innocent. Manny went after Craig so the problems came with it. I just wish when Emma caught them in her bed she would also said,” Craig stop it do you think Ashley would like you doing this.”

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre Don’t get why Manny went to Emmas room to make out with Craig though

[@PlayfulFruitLPer]

Zoey was a cheap version of Paige with a dash of early Holly J. She got to do all these awful things to Maya and basically gets away with it, and all of her friends don’t seem to care. Then when she gets assaulted she continued to be problematic and force her squad into Degrassi nudes. By the time she tries to redeem herself it’s too late, and she isn’t interesting enough for anyone to have a reason to root for her like we did with Paige.

[@TodoDekuOTP]

Liberty and Manny got hand waved too much and Emma got persecuted too much. Also Ellie got robbed of a love story so Manny the interloper could be the boy magnet of the school. It was absolutely wrong. Ellie was gorgeous but always friendzoned or a gay guy’s beard.

[@jayj7340]

Yo, that's why I always got irritated watching Manny in those seasons. It makes me think that the writers tried to make a love triangle seem natural when she literally bulldozed her way in. She even went on a date with Craig, and he wasn't interested in her. Same thing when she broke up with that loser blonde guy during her thong phase. He didn't immediately show romantic interest, at least any stronger than Ashley. I honestly wonder if Manny is just the hero for people daydreaming to be with that unavailable person, but I always saw it as irritable.

[@NotAVampyre]

The text makes it too obvious that Manny was doing terrible things to get what she wanted to be a real love triangle. Craig wasn't interested in her until she started using sex appeal and positioning herself as being more fun than Ashley.

[@caitydid86]

In regards to Craig and Manny, I wholeheartedly believe that they each deserve 50% of the blame, until the Christmas episodes. In those episodes I say 60% of the blame goes to Craig and 40% to Manny. Why? Because in those episodes Manny tells Craig that she wants him to break up with Ashley. Craig does try to breakup with Ashley, but fails. However, Craig tells Manny that he did break up with Ashley so Manny did not know that she still the other woman until she spoke with Ashley.

[@realemmcee]

What I like and appreciate about Manny is that she learns from her mistakes and the show makes her "pay" for when she does the wrong thing and no one makes excuses for her, unlike the brooding basic white boys Eli and Craig who fit the karma houdini trope to a tee.

[@NotAVampyre]

I would argue that Eli did have to make up for most of the wrong he did, but yeah Craig seemed to just be forgiven a lot. Ashley was the only one to try to make him "pay" I think.

[@twalls9720]

People praise her like she is God and they don’t even know what it would be like if they were in Ashley’s position

[@NotAVampyre]

Exactly. Liberated sexuality isn't the same as homewrecking

[@jilliankyla2983]

It rubbed me the wrong way that people were vilifying Ashley in the situation. I agree that Ashley shouldn’t have exposed Manny’s pregnancy to the whole school but branding her as the petty and jealous ex mad that her boyfriend found the one he truly loved was FAR beyond wrong.

[@rebrlvnya]

I like Paige as a character, but I would not want to be her friend. I really like Manny, and I think part of it is, I was one of "those girls" in High School. and it took a lot of getting hurt and being put second and stupid drama with guy's girlfriends, to realize how shitty of a person I was being. So I relate pretty heavily to to Manny's Craig and Spinner storylines. That said, I don't handwave it, because it was shitty behavior, but I feel like Manny did learn from it, and a lot of stemmed from her own insecurities about herself and needing validation. There's one, that I feel is understandable, but should be addressed more, Darcys behavior after her rape. again while completely understandable, Darcy was completely unlikable to me.

[@rebrlvnya]

@@NotAVampyre that's fair. I had a hard time watching from about when she was hitting on, and then accused Simpson to the when she went to camp to that retreat thing with Peter. I think must if my frustration with it, was because she refused to deal with, and they did what I thought was a very realistic portrayal of it (the, "that doesn't happen to girls like me" line was harsh but I imagine she isn't the only victim to feel that way) and it made it hard to watch, knowing she was going to have to come to terms with it eventually. I do think they did a better job with hers then they did Paiges.

[@NotAVampyre]

@@rebrlvnya I do agree that even realistic portrayals can be difficult to watch, especially if you know where her decisions are leading her. Why do you think Paige's rape story was bad? I thought it was a good portrayal of another person going through something similar but also knowing who the bad guy was, and having to work through the pain of him never truly seeing justice.

[@musiclover_kb4913]

Darcy became unlikable the moment she started bitching about Spinner's sexual past

[@NotAVampyre]

@@musiclover_kb4913 I still like her as a character, no so much as a person

[@Southern_QUEERies]

Manny IS my favorite character, because of all of her flaws and how she changed and developed throughout the show. I think she grows up A LOT, and by the end of her main arc finally starts to come into her own person and find her OWN confidence. I think her lack of confidence is what led her to make so many bad decisions.

[@squidwardtentacles7144]

Emma,Bianca, Alex, and CRAIG! I put Emma because she's a hypocrite when she was expressing herself in s3 she shamed Manny, but she legit tried to do the same thing season later. Bianca because people seem to forget she outted Adam while they were I'm dance class. And I don't think she ever apologized for it. And then Drew goes on and DATES her!🙃 Alex because she got away with too many things that no one addresses. Like her assist in the whole Ric incident. She didn't even get in trouble for that. And her raising hell with Jay. Which is why I liked the episode where her actions bit her in the butt when that girl confronted her about bullying her a few years back. Craig because even though Manny was the homewrecker. He's the one who let her wreck the home. He let her in knowing good and well he was taken. Even though what Manny did was terrible she didn't owe any loyalty to Ashely, Craig did. And also let's state the obvious fact that Craig's a serial cheater and a manipulator.

[@MA-jj8ux]

My thing is she put herself in that position to be “hurt” because at that party she kept convincing him even though he told her more than once that he wasn’t interested but she tried to manipulate him into a relationship by settling for “side chick” position and then she tried to scheme her way to being the Maingirl but as we all saw how that turned out. I really didn’t like how she played the victim saying how “The guy wreck the relationship” and while I agree that the guy should always be held responsible for making the decision to cheat and he ain’t worth it if he can’t keep loyalty but for her to sit up there like she was some lost puppy all because she’s only a year younger irkes me. She tried to apologize to Ashley on the episode she found out she was pregnant but that made her look phony as if she was only Sorry she got caught rather than for how inconsiderate she was. There was really a love triangle considering she tried forcing him to like her that wasn’t organic and made her look desperate. Season 3-Season 4 Manny was selfish and had a victim-like mentality but I’m starting to warm up to her later seasons. She is a fun character that’s not unlikeable though.

[@jjthepikazard212]

paige is definitely under criticized (she's still my favorite of the next gen cast, but a lot of times, her flaws are under accounted for). the most annoying thing she did to me was how she responded to alex stripping. i might make a video about it

[@montereyjackcheesestick8912]

I don't think it was ok for Manny to be sexually active as early as she was. She was a literal child. And also I don't agree with "casual" sex bc there's nothing casual about sex. But I don't see why random people were mad at her and judging her for being active. And the only reason she did it with Craig anyways was bc she thought they were actually going to be something. The real issue was as you stated that Craig was in a relationship already.

[@cheshirerose2001]

Manny is one of my favorite characters but with that being said I do find her fan base annoying It always annoys me how they try to justify some of her actions, like when she went after Craig even knowing that he was already dating someone, her fan base tried to say “she was 14 she didn’t know any better” even though they hate on characters who would’ve been the same age who did even less. Now I do think Craig is more at fault and I did find it annoying how people were more mad at Manny than at Craig (when he’s the one who cheated) but that could be a comment for another time I also remember seeing a comment where someone said that I was ICONIC that she had two guys who already had girlfriends fight over her. I will admit I couldn’t stand S3! Manny but was glad to see her character develop Manny is a flawed character and seeing her overcome her flaws is what I enjoyed about her.

[@hostileX7]

I think character flaws only get waved because they have fans. Personally, I feel any character worth liking has flaws and that's why they're relatable in the first place. EVERYBODY on Degrassi has flaws that we ignore because we love them. Except for Nadia. She's flawless ♿! However, I cannot stand the hand waiving treatment Kendra seems to get. She sucks! She was immature and a horrible girlfriend to Toby. She constantly acted superior and didn't think twice about ruining her brother's plan to skip school. I saw zero motivation for that aside from childish jealousy. Spinner definitively displayed his love and willingness to look out for his(ADOPTED) sibling and she never reciprocated that. And yet, all i seem to read are comments about how unfairly she was treated and how she could've been a great character in later seasons. Do not forget how completely insufferable she truly was 🐗!

[@GG1Productions]

I always forget that Manny was what broke up Paige and Spinner and because I'm a Manny apologist, sns, I think that she just sped up the inevitable. Paige and Spinner were over the second that she crashed his car. I completely understand why and I still fist pump the air whenever she does but Hazel pointed out that the dynamic had changed. They were at their "strongest" when Paige could keep Spinner in line with a simple look. Once Spinner had something over Paige though, it was over. He felt he could do anything and treat her any old way. I'm sure in his mind having Manny on the side was something he felt "owed" in addition to the money. Mind you, I fully accept the part Manny played in this.

[@luaisy9960]

I know I'm late, but still. Wanted to say that I think the reason why Manny is the most like character is due to the fact that she is THE MOST REALISTIC character of the franchise. I've always thought her, Marco, Spinner, Zoë and Miles were, by far, the more realistic characters, due to how well the series transitions and how the entire cast reacts due to their flaws or differences (they're also some of my favs as well).

[@SpaceandGoats]

I think Jimmy is a character whose flaws are ignored because of the rick incident

[@Curtis006]

Manny is just the best (except for Holly J who’s actually the best)

[@NotAVampyre]

Hmmm.....not sure who'd I say is best girl...

[@lindseydawes7260]

Holly j had the best personality change

[@Curtis006]

@@lindseydawes7260 Holly J had my favorite arc, and is just entertaining to watch. You hate her at first, but then she becomes best girl

[@andreacerva]

i’m sorry but Manny is THAT girl. idc

[@NotAVampyre]

What? I don't know what you mean

[@jakejax8032]

She's flawed but I still love Manny so much.

[@RashadSims-bh3zz]

I still laugh my ass off when Craig did the Christmas present gift

[@IONov990]

I honestly never liked how Manny pursued Craig or any guy. I thought guys should be after her. There were some deleted scenes where Craig was ogling Manny when she got her new look. When she had sex with Craig during his fight with Ashley wasn't too bad. I started to get annoyed with her when she kept pursuing him after that. I mean shit happens. She is 14 year old girl. I personally don't think it is a good idea for anyone that young to have sex.

[@NotAVampyre]

Why did it bother you that she pursued guys instead of it only being guys going for her?

[@IONov990]

@@NotAVampyre I thought she was too pretty for be chasing after guys, especially Craig. I think she looked desperate for Craig in the beginning. I didn't think Manny was in the wrong when she and Craig initially had sex. Sometimes things happen. When she kept pursuing after he was clearly back together with Ashley was when I was annoyed by her. Things escalated quickly though. She hadn't expressed interest in Craig at the beginning of that season. I guess Craig was the guy she never forgot about.

[@JBabyLeather]

Idea: in depth character analysis of each character, the good and bad, the looks and styles, the relationships the go through.

[@NotAVampyre]

Oof that sounds like a lot of work >< that would be an interesting project, but I don't think it's for me

[@belowthedot8903]

@@NotAVampyre I think a video on Spike could be a good idea. I don't think anybody has ever attempted an in-depth analysis of Spike in a stand-alone video/post. I feel that she is a character that is acclaimed, criticized and misunderstood at the same time. I've tried initiating in-depth discussions about her on the subreddit but they've never really caught on except for a few replies (insightful and thought-provoking replies mind you). Spike is probably my favorite character in the whole franchise and I think it's because I can relate to the way she is interpreted by fans. I have Aspergers and I see parallels in the way I am treated IRL and the way Spike is treated by fans and viewers and I've even theorized whether she could be on the spectrum. I think another thing that also makes Spike interesting is that they never really fleshed her character out outside the pregnancy and she doesn't seem to have a defining personality. Joey's the humorous but well-meaning guy, Snake is the geeky, awkward guy, Caitlin is the overzealous activist, but what is Spike? She's a teen mom, but what emotions are associated with her character? What is her personality? She always seems to be unhappy, but people just describe her as "the teen mom" with no demeanor attached, like she is a teen mom, but what is she like as a person, and so I feel that Spike is more a character that you interpret, rather than understand. But I do think she's misinterpreted quite a bit. I'd reckon such a video would be along the lines of "Trying to Understand Spike" or something.

[@ashleyburchettajleefanlove4683]

Finally someone who outs her out she wasn’t perfect

[@sorntrash]

Manny got a lot of flack with her relationship with Craig. My problem is that Craig got handwaved by pretty much all their peers and Manny got dumped on.

[@cheshirerose2001]

AGREED! I do agree that Manny was still in the wrong but it’s annoying that Craig wasn’t ostracized quite like Manny was even though he was the one who cheated and owned his girlfriend loyalty

[@msemokidz]

So she steals boyfriends and “wrecks homes”. BFD. Those guys were weak. IF I’m dating someone who is so easily tempted by other women, that shit is on me. And that’s in regards to all love triangles and individuals who “ruin relationships” “cheats” and “wreck homes”. That ish isn’t cool but to say it’s terrible and being annoyed by people “hand waving her flaws” is just silly. Love your videos btw 🤗

[@sweetgeo96]

I love Manny she is one of my fave characters

[@chaosspy6723]

literally every character has done worse. what's the big deal?

[@thefrug4755]

In my opinion manny was the best female character degrassi ever wrote for the fact that she was real I know multiple girls irl who are like manny they have flaws and made mistakes but learned from them just like manny

[@animalfire9584]

Am I the only person that thinks it’s a bit of a racial stereotype as the the sexual Latina

[@NotAVampyre]

I would agree, except it makes perfect sense for Manny to undergo this transformation. Up until this point, she was strongly characterized as cute and still childlike. But, she was becoming unsatisfied with this image because all the guys she liked saw her as such instead of a romantic option. Hell, it was the reason her and Craig didn't work out the first time. So, she wanted to change, and like most do in rebelling, she went hard in the other direction. And though Manny went hard in the exotically sexy image, she did tone it down after she stopped trying to use her body to get the attention and love she desired. Sure, she didn't go back to being cutesy and modest, but that's because she found a happy medium that suited her. A look that represented the sexual woman Manny is. Plus, Manny is Filipino.

[@selinakyle_]

I'm a white woman but I can relate to Manny, in a lot of ways, than say I could Ashley, Paige or Ellie even Emma! I def see Manny and I have the same personality, dreams, hopes, fears and experiences with men :/ And I hit my 'glow up' last year, I've been slut shamed ever since, I've discovered my womanly figure, sexuality and attractiveness too... I must say I agree, this show TOTALLY slut shamed her. They made everything she went through, as if it were, such a terrible thing she were experiencing... She's a human and we all experience things, in our own ways... So yeah... Let the men and women of this world, be bitter and jealous of women like Manny; women who're comfortable in their sexuality and womanhood...

[@NotAVampyre]

That's not what this video is about. Yes it recognizes Manny was grossly mistreated by her peers for owning her sexuality, but the main idea is that Manny is treated like a saint by fans even though she's done some horrible things during her glow up phase.

[@eazytooquik]

I never thought Jay got the punishment he deserved for just being a all around dick. He did get kicked outta school for the shooting incident, but we didn't see him suffer the way we saw Spinner suffer over it. Everybody ignored Spinner. Jay talked about feeling alone, but I never felt sorry for him. It seemed like Spinner got all the hate & when Jimmy finally became freinds with Spinner again, Jay was all of a sudden friends with Jimmy & winds up dating Manny. I can't remember, but I don't remember Jay ever apologizing to Jimmy over the shooting & it was his fault. Jay was just accepted again.

[@NotAVampyre]

The thing with Jay is that all of his strife and journey is in the background. He opted not to return to Degrassi and thus partially made it hard to focus on him. Still, there is progress hinted as to his growth from unempathetic ass to somewhat tolerable over seasons 5 and 6. I think he kinda paid for his part, but no where near the way Spinner did. Jay kinda got the benefit of time to make people get pass his role in the shooting. I also get the sense that when it mattered, Jay wouldn't have apologized. Still, I'm certain some of his party life style we see in season 5 is in part due to unadressed guilt from the incident.

[@Nomorehats]

Manny's hot. Y u hatin

[@NotAVampyre]

I guess you didn't watch the video. Also, since when does physical appearance dictate the morality of actions? Come back with a real criticism.

[@Nomorehats]

OwO

[@dangil125]

Was Campbell Saunders a "Snuff Character"? Did that hurt rather than help they story they were trying to tell?

[@NotAVampyre]

Not at all. While it's said he was written to die in the end, the story that was told was extremely important and the character took on a life of his own as the story went on. That last part gave nuance to a sensitive topic that hardly gets covered with such delicacy. On every angle the show batted 100 whether it was describing how Cam got to that point or how the people around him percieved his decline and eventual death. Maybe being written to die makes you a Snuff Character, but as this instance shows, it's not inherently a bad thing.

[@torello8903]

Manny is the best

[@NotAVampyre]

*shrugs*

[@shawnjvojames96]

I agree she has flaws people never talk about it

[@shawnjvojames96]

Women get shamed for having sex with a lot of men cause women usually start the rumors and stories and it’s just about self worth manny really ain’t get her self worth even when Emma tried to talk to her but she’s still a good character and was needed in the show

[@NotAVampyre]

That doesn't explain the millennia of history where men are the instigators of shaming women not just for having sex with multiple men, but owning their sexuality at all. It's not fair to say women bring it upon themselves. One must investigate how it came to the point where women liking sex could be weaponized against them whereas it's just expected of men.

[@ErynSierra]

i just realized that if Craig and Manny truly ended up together her name would be Manny Manning.

[@NotAVampyre]

She could try Manuela Manning. It's a little better....but if I were her I'd hyphenate Santos-Manning. Manny Manning is too much

[@fancyboi82]

You sound jealous

[@NotAVampyre]

Do I? I'm not sure how that happened given early/mid 2000s style is one of my least favorite clothing periods.

[@fancyboi82]

@@NotAVampyre I was making a many Santos joke, she always calls people jealous haha

[@NotAVampyre]

Oh hahaha! I've gotten sincere comments like that, so I didn't realize it's a joke.

[@Kevin-rg3yc]

Manny was a great character I loved. She was one of the most realistic characters of the entire show and had alot of moments that kids relate. To me she the prime example (along with ali) of how strict religious parents blindly create their kids to what they don't want them to be

[@NotAVampyre]

Her parents weren't really religious. It was more that they had an idea of what they wanted their daughter to be (her dad especially) and could not handle when Manny deviated from tbay plan. And with Ali's parents as well, sure some of their rules came from their religion, but much of it was like with the Santos family. The parents had an idea of what their kids should be outside of what is considered a good Muslim. Sav did run into trouble with dating Anya and being a Muslim, but how little trust he and Ali were given to make mistakes and learn was a separate issue.

[@Kevin-rg3yc]

that's true but those ideas parents have on their children for manny, ali and sav does have underlying religious agenda behind it. I mean come on sav had a arranged marriage for god sake lol. Like for manny, how they did her 18th birthday party in season 7, is calld the Debut which a traditional religious celebration for a young adolescent girl becoming into a woman in the Philippine. So while it is true it was more of their idea for what manny's parents wanted her to be, religion did indeed played a part in those ideas they wanted for her

[@NotAVampyre]

I did a bit of research on Debuts, and it's not religious. It's a tradition carried over from the Spanish Quinceanera which it self is said to be a carryover from the Aztec tradition of having a ceremony for young women crossing over into adulthood. It's a cultural tradition. Not religious. Of course I'm not saying that neither house was religious nor am I suggesting religion had nothing to do with how the parents treated their children. What I am saying is that you're overstating the extent to which religiosity can be blamed. Religion itself doesn't necessarily cause such family dynamics, and there's not enough evidence that it was the thing that created the divides between the Bhandaris and the Santos.

[@Kevin-rg3yc]

@@NotAVampyre nah im overstating it. I'm just saying from the observation of how their parents in terms of Manny and Ali they had values on how they wanted their children to be with religious agendas. For Manny it may have not be directly stated but you can tell. Alot of foreign parents' strict values for their children comes from religion influences even if its not directly obvious and that what I said previously. There's no overstating

[@NotAVampyre]

You're overstating, but there's no overstating?

[@RashadSims-bh3zz]

A lex for sure did hateful shit but did a turn around when her and paige started going out

[@NotAVampyre]

? This video is about Manny

[@drethethinker6418]

I admit that I used to see Manny's flaws as more of a strength...I perhaps justified here behavior by thinking "all is fair in love and war" and "She just knows what she wants and goes for it." Manny owes nothing to Paige or Ashley. They were not friends. She did not owe them here loyalty. So while a decent human would perhaps wait until things were completely over...I question how wrong it is to follow your heart and go for what you want. I mean what if that moment was her only chance to ever be with Craig. Plus some people are competitive and like to be on top. Manny is clearly one of those people Sometime being on top requires taking advantage of opportunity or being selfish enough to take what you want even if others want that same thing.

[@NotAVampyre]

Yeah I would not agree with past you.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre One thing I hate is what they did to Emma in season 3 making her look perfect while she was faced conflict against Sean and Manny. And that episode where she gets obsessed with busting Sean and Jay is hard to watch cuz of her selfishness. I also hate how she got with Chris in the end I never liked him yeah he barely had any lines but he was so awkward and half the time all he did was ask people out for shakes. And he had no character and came off very fake and rude he was totally type casted and I wish Emma’s relationship with him was offscreen like Liberty and Towerz

[@NotAVampyre]

Somehow you bring this back to Emma and her non Sean relationships and how you think they were the worse. Can you think of nothing else?

[@NotAVampyre]

How did they make her look perfect when there was an episode dedicated to showing Emma letting her anger at Sean get the best of her and almost ruin her new relationship with Chris?

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre Read My OTher comments I wrote that I finally get what you mean about Manny I apologize if I come off too repetitive but you can’t stop someone from expressing an opinion many people agree with. I talk about how I feel Manny is was too naive into thinking she’d be successful stealing Craig and she was at best the other women. And how I feel all Craig relationships are bad because he always ends up hurting them.

[@MiniMeags]

I love Manny with Jay but I ship cranny heapssssssd

[@mtaimry]

I don't quite get what you mean by "handwaving". Everything you said about Manny in this video, to me, is what made her so damn interesting and layered. I really think she's one of the best written characters on the show BECAUSE of her many, many flaws, mistakes and the way it is explained why she is doing what she is doing. Her flaws are her essence, really. EDIT Oh ok I think I get what you were trying to say. And I agree. Manny is definitely to be held accountable for the things she's done. But again, that's her essence and that's why her character is so great in my opinion, because SHE CHOSE to do all those things, and the reasons behind her choices were explored wonderfully. EDIT #2 All the same, you can't deny that characters around Manny "helped" her be the way she is. I mean, once she was labeled a slut- that's it she was done. Sure she did "slutty" things, but the whole thing became a circle and she became trapped in her image. Maybe she liked it though. Maybe she didn't suffer that much from her lable, so she kept going at it. One case that pops to mind is when she and Ellie "fought" for Craig, the whole drumsticks incident. The way I remember it, Manny kinda enjoyed the whole situation. Maybe im biased because by that point I REALLY disliked Ellie. Another case is her infamous "Im gonna be famous!" tape leak. I mean she was pissed, but... not broken. There's even a mini-episode where she and Marco talk about it very casually. I actually jusy rewatched that mini and you should check it out, gives a nice little insight about Manny and her sturggle. In conclusion, I DO think Manny is responsible for her actions 100%, but people's attitude towards her was also a key ingredient to the whole thing. That's why her arc is so great, its not black and white. (shoutout to Maya's song!) God, thank you for talking about Degrassi so brilliantly! I really have no one else to talk to about it!

[@NotAVampyre]

I don't mind at all that she's flawed or blame her for having reactions to those around her. My problem is fans saying she did nothing wrong because "it takes two to cheat". Characters in the show hold her accountable, but fans need to recognize that the guys aren't the only ones to blame.

[@diddyisadick3275]

NotAVampyre I hate when people blame her for the Peter thing. Peter filmed her he shouldn’t have Manny was drunk out of her mind and couldn’t help it.

[@warmac88]

Great video

[@sxyusuke2712]

People hate on early Dallas and Zoe

[@NotAVampyre]

Can understand why. They legit weren't good people for the most part. For a long time, I seriously despised Zoe.

[@DefineMorena]

As they should.

[@mrterrific1160]

Manny really has you pressed! It’s giving pick me-Ellie vibes

[@NotAVampyre]

What? I think you're assigning malice or dislike to me pointing out fans ignore the shitty things Manny has done amd act like she's perfect.

[@mrterrific1160]

@@NotAVampyre well to be fair every character on degrassi has their flaws it’s kind of the point of the show, I think Manny is just a very lovable character in spite of her past mistakes. Her good (imo) heavily outweighs her bad, she tends to be an outspoken character that stands up for herself & her friends more boldly than most others on the show.

[@NotAVampyre]

Again, I'm not saying that she's overall bad or uniquely flawed compared to her peers. This video is purely a response to how I specifically see her put on a pedestal as though she's done no wrong and only has bad things happen at her. Just reminding people that she isn't perfect either and ignoring that part is misunderstanding the character.

[@mrterrific1160]

@@NotAVampyre it’s true she’s not perfect but I don’t think Manny fans claim she’s perfect, simply the/one of the best written and strongest characters on the show. It’s not like she isn’t punished on the show like unlike some of her male counterparts who are let off easy (i.e. Craig, Peter). Her reputation on the show was consistently made a focal point of her trajectory so it’s logical that fans would be able to easily forgive her & see her as stronger for that reason.

[@mysticalkeyblade759]

What’s so great about this show?

[@AB-xj3rc]

Robert Small everything

[@Daisy-ge1ig]

How long its been on

[@Daisy-ge1ig]

Alex Beard knew that already

[@NotAVampyre]

I have many videos on it, but to sum it up, it's a show that aims.to tell stories from many different perspectives and explore the experiences of being in those situations. Yes, it focuses mainly on school aged folks, but that doesn't negate how relatable the stories told are. It gives a voice to the under represented, reminds us we're not alone in our experiences, and gives us an idea of how someone might respond to common situations. It's a long watch, but very worth it, as evidenced by how much analysis I've squeezed out of Degrassi.

[@JustMariahPlease]

I love Manny. Lol. I didn’t even care about anything she did.

[@DefineMorena]

People ignore Spinner's flaws the most. He has been trashy from the beginning.

[@gracesingsalot7398]

I do not like manny at all lmao I think it’s because I relate to the girls whos lost men to her

[@gracesingsalot7398]

But I don’t think she should have been bullied for being sexual woman can do what they want, I just don’t like that she preyed on taken men or broke girl code a lot

[@NotAVampyre]

yeah this is alk I'm trying to say

[@spliffyrodgers4266]

This might sound bad but honestly I dont think persuing somone in a relationship is all that bad if they're into you, if you're hooking up with someones partner, they're the ones cheating not you Im not in a relationship so I have no commitments to anyone and if Im talking to someone that does that's their own business (but personaly I wouldn't actually date anyone who had a partner while we were hooking up couldn't trust them not to cheat on me if they were cheating on the last one with me)

[@Noonecaresaboutyouu]

Manny did make mistakes but through out the later series she definitely grew up to be a better person! her reputation may have been trashed , but she learned to overcome it and live in her mistakes , Manny has her moments in the show tho ! We’ve seen , innocent Manny , selfish Manny , broken Manny , Shady Manny , sweet Manny , she wasn’t always great but later you become a fan of Manny